Traveller-digest      Friday, February 20 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 200



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Eris saith
Re: Someone PLEASE HELP me UNSUBSCRIBE
Re: Next Software Project
Re: ideas
Re: jump vs stutterwarp
Re: Technician career & Tools (Society)
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc. 
Re: MT Starship Combat, Please Help...
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.
[T98#192] Starports
[T98#192] Dhe...
Fighters?
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.
Re: MT Starship Combat, Please Help...
Re: Starport Economics
Re: Technician career & Tools [Long!]
Re: Discarding Sabot Rounds
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.
Re: Religion in America & Traveller too!
Re: World generation Modifications

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:36:53 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Eris saith

Eris wrote:

>I firmly believe in the possibility of the tale! Not that the slug
>inpregnated the woman..the lead slug anyway.., but I certainly *do* believe
>somebody could have made that claim and tried to make it stick.  I mean if
>a turkey baster works...;-p
>
>OB Traveller, I suppose this relates to the rumors about the
>self-inpregnating Sayat that the Solimani keep spreading around. ;->

Yup.  There's a REASON why Sayat distrust slug-firing small arms.
(Besides, some of their best friends are slugs.)

Walking past a yuppie kitchen supply boutique a week or two ago, I spotted
a Sayat "baby blaster" cleverly disguised as a very snazzy black-trimmed
chrome turkey baster.  I'm still not sure whether to snicker, ogle, or
flee.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:36:56 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Someone PLEASE HELP me UNSUBSCRIBE

Harold Hale quite unneccesarily shared with us the fact that:

>P.S. If it's got a schwing, it ain't my thing.  I prefer fish to tube steak.

Right.  So will one of you creative knee-jerk liberal permissive types
please write up a "Ship's Locker" and/or "Bestiary"-type article on that
popular trade item in the Third Imperium and beyond, the tube steak?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:00:28 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Next Software Project

At 01:53 PM 2/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I emailed this to a few people, but no responses. I suspect the they may
>not have received the message - parts of the Inetrnet are slowly becoming
>inaccessible (hi Dom! hi Andy! hi Marc!).
>
>I'm trying to decide on my next programming project.  Please cast your
>votes for:
>
>1) QSDS (Mac/PC) - as it says

No strong need.

>2) Metator (Mac, PC a long way away) - system detailing and mapping

Mac version - update that allowed variant generation systems would be nice.
 I find the standard Traveller world generation system essentially unusable
for my games.

>3) Cartos (Mac, PC a way away) - sector/empire mapping and generation

Mac version - this could be handy, though we should likely talk about just
how to do it, as this covers a lot of ground, not all of which passes the
smoke test in standard Traveller rules.  Further, many of the same issues
about how to generate uwps get in here.  Rate this one below Metator updates.

>4) FFS2 (both Mac/PC a way away) - as it says

This one would be very useful to me, as I have not yet gotten Andrew's
spreadsheet to run on ClarisWorks, so I am designing things by hand for the
moment.  Here again, table driven systems have some benefit.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:50:11 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: ideas

At 09:55 AM 2/20/98 -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
>At 01:08 AM 2/21/98 +1300, you wrote:

>>1) The "Phantom of the Opera" as a Traveller senario too
>
>This has possibilities, especially if the Phantom is a long stranded
>Imperial scout using the rements of his high tech equipment to haunt the
>Opera House.. hmmm.. I like this one.

The players just finished a scenario where they got to meet one of the many
Darrians scattered about Core in early M0 by a catastrohpic misjump.  Said
Darrian was running primarily TL 17-18 equipment, and playing God.

>>C) Famous student pranks of the 3rd Imperium
>
>Craig would be better suited to handle this one  Praise Rusto!

Rusto! Rusto! Rusto!

Hail Rusto!

>>iv) Traveller as a generic game system (a "magic" system for Traveller)
>
>No.  Not.  The only way I would accept this is a world where the local
>wizards are psionicists.

Psionics are pretty easy to turn into this.  I make Psionics the core of
the TL 20-22 band of technology.  Teleportation and antimatter were the
keys to 17-19.  15-16 were ruled by disintegrators, black globes, and
massive increases in fusion power, while 12-14 were the domain of meson
weapons.  9-11 were ruled by cheap antigrav, fusion, and jump drive, while
6-8 were ruled by computers, mass production, and the dramatic rise of the
leisure class.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:12:38 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: jump vs stutterwarp

>The major vs minor thing is mainly propaganda anyway, IMO.

Yeah.  All the major powers also "just happen" to be major races...
I suspect that if this was seriously challenged the definition
would be changed so it still included all the major powers
or it would fade into a minor bragging point.  ("We devoloped
interstellar traveller more independantly that you!"  is pretty
hollow when it is followed by "Please don't attack us!")
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:18:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Technician career & Tools (Society)

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Rob Prior wrote:

> >
> >Certification:  the easy way to deal with it is to say that any character
> >
> >who reaches a certain skill level is certified. 
> 
> 
> Make that a task to obtain certification. You might be skilled and fail;
> you might be unskilled and pass. Makes things a bit chancier for employers.

What benefits do you think it should confer?  Most people won't attempt a
task unless motivated to do so.


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:29:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc. 

How canonical is the TL 15 stealth suit?  Not that it matters to me much I
guess.  I'll be using that one at some time in the future; thanks for
posting it.  I have an old security penetration scenario that I've been
wanting to convert into the Traveller system, but the lack of invisibility
suits made it difficult.  I was thinking about doing a fudge and making
them Ancient artifacts, but then they would be just *too* darned valuable
to risk! 


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:22:19 -0000
From: "Del Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: MT Starship Combat, Please Help...

With reference to:
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:56:59 -0000
From: "Justin Durkan" <jdurkan@iol.ie>
Subject: MT Starship Combat, Please Help...

Valid points, I also had problems with the MT space combat section,
and would hazard a guess that everybody did! I play exclusively using
MT, and this one part let it down for me. Hence, in steps the solution...
IMAGINATION!. I allowed Gunnery Combat as a DM on the to hit rolls,
and made other modifications as they came along. Then I found the 
absolutely excellent Role Playing Space Combat System (all praise
be to it!). I was liberated from the drudgery of a complicated system
where player characters were forgotten and wargaming methods arose.
Now I Role Play ship to ship combat, forget all the rules, and have FUN.

My players know now, that if it's good for the plot, they get hit or score
a critical hit on the enemy just in the 'nick of time' and we enjoy every
minute of it.

Cheers

Del

Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
dojones@whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:38:28 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.

<snipped discussion of Mem-X and memory>

I don't know if people really appreciate who fragile short term memory is.
I've recently started having seizures again, and one of the joyful side
effects is the total destrcution of short term memory.

How bad is it?  I can forget that I've eaten, or started the shower, or put
the phone down in the space of seconds.

Anything that modifies human memory needs to be handled carefully.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:50:36 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T98#192] Starports

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 06:58:39 -0500, anders.backman@aniware.se
(Anders Backman) wrote:

>Jeff Zeitlin calculated the number of berths sometime back (he noted in
>passing that the White Dwarf starport-photocopy-and-die article fit his
>numbers very well). Is the article on the web or could Mr Zeitlin plesase
>e-mail me it as I'm really interested.

I don't think I'm the one that wrote the article that you're
thinking of - it certainly doesn't ring any bells in my trick
memory.  If anyone can find this article, I'd be interested in
seeing it as well - especially if I _did_ write it.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:50:48 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T98#192] Dhe...

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 06:58:39 -0500, anders.backman@aniware.se
(Anders Backman) wrote:

>>In the process of figuring the "correct" odds on Dhe, I spoke to
>>my father, who in turn spoke to a guy ("BD") he knows that does
>>hyperadvanced math by intuition (he also writes damn near perfect
>>computer code the same way).  BD said that he'd love to see it at
>>a casino; it's nice and simple, yet has possibilities.  He
>>suggests one change in the rules - instead of having the croupier
>>throw the dice, have the players rotate throwing the dice, until
>>the player either wins or loses, at which point the throw passes
>>to the next player.

>No can do. The Vargr NEVER allow the players themselves throwing dice as
>they're sooo good at cheating (swapping dice, Mercury filled cavities,
>magnetic dot inks etc). If the Croupier rolls only he can cheat which is
>how it is done in the Vargr extents.

<grin> Well, I didn't give my father the irrelevant background of
the game, and he therefore didn't give it to BD.  BD was thinking
in terms of Las Vegas today, rather than Grnouf 2,500 years from
now...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:07:54 -0800
From: Goran Sjoberg <NGC1201@communique.se>
Subject: Fighters?

	After reading the articles on fighters and the ups and downs, i have an
idea for you to batter..

How about a battle drone.

Take an ordinary fighter, rip out the cockpit and life support and use the
volume to increase armour and acceleration G's.

Put in a computer programmed with tactical info, battle maneuvers, attack
patterns and evasives. Programmed right you increase the response time and
get a faster craft. The best of all is, you only lose the craft if shot
down. No pilot, no casualty.

Goran

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:11:31 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

In a message dated 98-02-18 13:55:12 EST, you write:

<< Heres an idea thats been flying around in my head for some time now. I
 felt that the world generation system, 

 Milieu World Generation Modification Table, V. 0.1
 
 Any suggestions, comments
 -- 
>>


Based on these base types... and these table, let's construct modifiers for
bases based on milieux...


BASES
	Code		Description
	C	Capital
	D	Depot (Naval Support)
	M	Military Base (Army).
	N	Naval Base
	O	Outpost
	P	Prison World
	R	Reserve
	S	Scout Base
	W	Way Station (Scout)
	Z	Research Station.

	Other base types are also possible.

SYSTEM CONTENTS
	2D	PM	Belts	GG	Starport
	2	1	3	5	A
	3	2	2	4	A
	4	3	2	4	A
	5	4	1	3	B
	6	5	1	3	B
	7	5	-	2	C
	8	5	-	1	C
	9	6	-	1	D
	10	7	-	-	E
	11	8	-	-	E
	12	9	-	-	E
	Roll for Population Multiplier, Planetoid Belts, and Gas Giants
independently. Record as single digits in the order PBG.

STARPORTS AND BASES
	2D	A	B	C	D	E
	N	6-	6-	-	-	-
	S	4-	5-	6-	7-	-
	M	3-	4-	3-	-	-
	O	-	-	3-	2-	-
	D	*	-	-	-	-
	W	**	-	-	-	-
	C. P, R, and Z are placed rather than generated.
	Roll 2D based on starport type.
	* Maximum 1 Depot per 100 Naval bases of same allegiance; must be at starport
class A.
	** Way stations are placed rather than randomly generated (milieu: 600+). 1
per 30 parsecs of route.
	*** Placed rather than generated.

ALLEGIANCE
	Worlds generated here have an allegiance of Im (Imperial). On the fringes of
the empire, worlds may be Cs (Client-State) or Na (Non-Aligned). 

MILIEUX
Date 	Name			Max TL	St	N	S
2000 AD	First Contact		9			
2200 AD	Interstellar Wars	10			
2200 AD	Vilani Empire				
2521 AD	The Rule of Man		12			
3521 AD	The Long Night		varies			
  200	Early Imperium		12			
  300	Vargr Campaigns		13			
  500	First Survey		13			
  600	Civil War		14			
  700	Solomani Expansion.	14			
  800	Psionic Suppressions	14			
1000	Solomani Rim Wars	14			
1100	Late Imperium		15			
1120	Rebellion		15			
	Imperial dates unless marked AD.
	Occasional tech levels on some worlds may exceed the maximum TL stated here.

St is Starport modifer. N is naval base modifier.
S is Scout base modifier.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:23:48 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.

>How canonical is the TL 15 stealth suit?  Not that it matters to me much I
>guess.

I pretty much like to stick to canon, as it is interpreted, but this is an
application of reasonably available technology of the time, not an
invention of (much) new technology.

[snip]

> ...but the lack of invisibility
>suits made it difficult.  I was thinking about doing a fudge and making
>them Ancient artifacts, but then they would be just *too* darned valuable
>to risk!

The attempt was to stop well short of an "invisibility suit".  A sucessful
stealth roll (or dex roll, if no stealth skill), in my opinion, results in
finding a good hiding place, or running between the searchlights, or making
your way down a poorly lit corridor with people at the far end who aren't
looking, etc.  It does not mean crossing the middle of a parade ground in
front of the Imperial Palace at Noon.

The TL15 chameleon option is the same technology as is used on high tech
battledress.  If seen from a distance and not moving, a person can lie flat
against a wall without being seen, provided the observer is pretty much
"straight out" from the wall and there are no other observers around with a
better angle.

There is also an (intentional) lack of IR masking.  In my opinion, it takes
a closed loop refrigeration system which, while possible in powered armor
with the energy and space it has available, is *not* possible in a couple
of layers of spandex.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"K'kree!?!  I *hate* K'kree! Can't I have leftover Groat instead?"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:42:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: MT Starship Combat, Please Help...

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Del Jones wrote:

> With reference to:
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:56:59 -0000
> From: "Justin Durkan" <jdurkan@iol.ie>
> Subject: MT Starship Combat, Please Help...

[snip]

> Then I found the 
> absolutely excellent Role Playing Space Combat System (all praise
> be to it!). I was liberated from the drudgery of a complicated system
> where player characters were forgotten and wargaming methods arose.
> Now I Role Play ship to ship combat, forget all the rules, and have FUN.
> 
> My players know now, that if it's good for the plot, they get hit or score
> a critical hit on the enemy just in the 'nick of time' and we enjoy every
> minute of it.

You can get a copy of this from Wildstar's page at:

http://users.qrc.com/~wildstar/traveller/rpsc.pdf

Although I don't know how it's used for MT ships; probably isn't hard.


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:43:37 -0800
From: Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com>
Subject: Re: Starport Economics

>> Try one ship. Vectors can change in time, and a single ship can have a
>> delta vee that changes in three dimensions. Try to plot a single ship
>> corkscrewing on a 2D map; you can't.
>
>Aside from "corkscrewing" being difficult to carry out, it may still be
>possible to treat that ship and a single *other* ship as a 2-d situation.
>Especially when you relize that any manuevers involving the "third"
>dimension in such a situation are a *waste* of delta-V.

It may be a "waste", but you still have to keep track of it because vectors
in the third dimension will have a component in the other dimensions
(unless they are colinear, which is pretty unlikely).

I suppose you may be able to 'factor out' the extra dimension, but that
would mean refiguring the acceleration based on the ships' orientations and
angle between their acceleration vectors. You couldn't say a ship
"accelerates ta 2 G" because some of it would have to be factored out. Too
complicated for me.

>After getting walked all over on r.a.s.s, I'm not going to say that you
>*can't* use 2D for such a situation. Remember, nothing states that the
>"reference plane" has to be "stationary" as viewed by an outside observer.

True, but it'll be a pain refiguring every vector in the new reference
plane when you do that. Good point, 'tho.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:32:32 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Technician career & Tools [Long!]

Very nice, Paolo!

But with regard to ranks, I would think that some standardized system
would be desirable and would also be a shorthand way to signify a
technician's level of expertise, and perhaps reflect certification,
etc.  I guess I'm thinking of some kind of expansion upon the medievel
system of Apprentice X, Journeyman X, Master X (Where X is Smith,
Wheelwright, Mason, Wainwright, Printer, Joiner, Teamster, Cooper,
Cobbler, etc.).  Perhaps drop the craft specific appellation and throw
in other grades.

Perhaps something like this, with no officer/enlisted-type division.

Apprentice
Hand
Able Hand
Journeyman
Craftsman
Engineer
Master Engineer


BTW, how about have them be nicknamed "Tinkers"  as in the phrase "A
Wandering of Tinkers."  IIRC, this was the term given to 'fix-it' men
who travelled from place to places, fixing things, because they couldn't
afford to build a shop.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:58:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Discarding Sabot Rounds

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, David Crew wrote:

> a) What is a DS round? 

A sub-calibre, kinetic energy penetrator surrounded by a lightweight sabot
that falls away after the round leaves the barrel.  Kind of like using a
9mm charge to accelerate a 4 mm needle round.

> It has higher penetration than normal rounds but why?

Higher concentration of energy at a single point on the target surface.

> b) Should a DS round have a danger space  and if so why?

IIRC, the danger space is due to automatic fire effects.


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:07:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the reply.  As expected, this scrubs my scenario with TL 15
equipment.  Do you think that a full invisibility suit might be available
by TL 17?  If not, what TL?

(We don't need to run across the Palace lawn, but we do have to penetrate
a bunker that has been secured as well as possible against intruders with
the ability to become invisible, and is even more secure against any other
form of intrusion that I can think of.) 


Thanks,
Clark


On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Peter H. Brenton wrote:

> >How canonical is the TL 15 stealth suit?  Not that it matters to me much I
> >guess.
> 
> I pretty much like to stick to canon, as it is interpreted, but this is an
> application of reasonably available technology of the time, not an
> invention of (much) new technology.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > ...but the lack of invisibility
> >suits made it difficult.  I was thinking about doing a fudge and making
> >them Ancient artifacts, but then they would be just *too* darned valuable
> >to risk!
> 
> The attempt was to stop well short of an "invisibility suit".  A sucessful
> stealth roll (or dex roll, if no stealth skill), in my opinion, results in
> finding a good hiding place, or running between the searchlights, or making
> your way down a poorly lit corridor with people at the far end who aren't
> looking, etc.  It does not mean crossing the middle of a parade ground in
> front of the Imperial Palace at Noon.
> 
> The TL15 chameleon option is the same technology as is used on high tech
> battledress.  If seen from a distance and not moving, a person can lie flat
> against a wall without being seen, provided the observer is pretty much
> "straight out" from the wall and there are no other observers around with a
> better angle.
> 
> There is also an (intentional) lack of IR masking.  In my opinion, it takes
> a closed loop refrigeration system which, while possible in powered armor
> with the energy and space it has available, is *not* possible in a couple
> of layers of spandex.
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
> "K'kree!?!  I *hate* K'kree! Can't I have leftover Groat instead?"
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:14:42 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion in America & Traveller too!

Greg Smith wrote:

> >>>Guaranteed to start a fight with a coworker if I equate atheism (a
> >>>definite belief concerning Supreme Being(s), namely that they don't
> >>>exist) with religion ...
> >>>
> >>>-- Dave Golden
> >>
> >>..or you could argue that atheists simply apply Occams razor to the
> >problem...
> >
> >  Nope. Occam's razor would lead me to believe that you can't prove
> >either way, and hence become an agnostic ...
> >
>
> Atheists definately don't apply Occam's Razor IMO because that
> necessitates too many other explanations for things.

Just now stumbled onto this thread.  This is the only thing I will say on
TML about this subject.

1)    I am an aetheist.
2)    I have been since age 9-10.
3)    I apply Occam's Razor, but came to aetheism before I was aware of
it.
4)    I became an aetheist primarily due to the inability of any faith
(primarily Christianity, but Judaism, too, to adeqautely explain itself as
a plausible system, especially, that "no other gods but me" stuff - Zeus
and Thor and such always made much more sense and behaved like regular
people).
5)    This all happened at Catholic School (wonder if we need a traveller
parallel to Parochial Education ;-)
6)    You can't really lump aetheists together because each comes to his
belief independently, without any support from others, and usually against
the norm for their environment.
7)    Atheism to me is no God, god or gods.  There ain't no nothing.
Death = decomposition.  (hmm, what would standard burial rights be for
Traveller Imperium?  Burial (archaic even today), cremation, ritual
decomposition (like in an acid bath or something?), "Soylent Green is
People!"?).
8)    IMHO, Agnosticism means theres something out there, but dogmatic
systems of belief/faith/whatever are unnecessary.
9)    As far as how this aetheist gets through life:  I call it
"Enlightened Hedonism."  Start off with simple pain avoidance/pleasure
attainment, add in John Donne's Meditation 17 ("No man is an island"),
broaden your conception of pleasure beyond the narrow one of the flesh to
include all of humaniti, mix well with the realization of the pleasures of
delayed gratification and the happiness that comes after a hard days work,
season to taste with good-natured sarcasm, bake until golden brown.


Have fun.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:29:05 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

Hello Marc,
  I like what I see <Grin>.  I somehow suspect T4.1 is gonna kick
posteriors <chuckle>.

  While we are on the topic of world generation...

  Maybe someone out there is conversant with what I am about to propose...

  In a few roleplaying games, there is a formula that permits a GM to
calculate the "period" of a planet as it orbits a sun.  Off hand, I don't
recall the formula used in TRAVELLER SCOUTS, but it will give a period
value.

  Is it possible, given the Mass of the target sun, plus the "period" of
the planet, to calculate what the mass of the planet should be?

  Also, is it possible, based on the information above, to calculate what
the density of the planet must be in order to accomodate the mass with a
specified "diameter"?

  And yet one final "question"...

  Supposedly, when using the "acretion" method of star generation, there
is a density gradient such that planets closer to a sun have a higher
density, while planets further from the sun have a lessor density.  Can
anyone come up with a reasonable "system" to simulate this?  Also, it
would seem that most of the "dust" is concentrated by volume closer
towards the sun, while further out, the "dust" would be sparser.  Dust by
the definition, is any of the more solid materials that are not gasses.

  Currently, I am using Mass of sun times 6 AU's as a dividing point from
where planetary "densities" start to drop rapidly from 5.5 g/cc to about
3 g/cc to plain ice balls at .9 g/cc.  This in turn will also help to
determine what the radius of planets should be based on their "mass" for
their assigned distance, etc...

 If anyone would be interested in answering my questions, I would
appreciate it greatly.

    Thanks,
      Hal

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #200
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, February 20 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 201



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Slings & Jerry Lewis?
Re: Technician career & Tools (Society)
Re: Fighters?
Re: Religion in America & Traveller too!
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: A question about grav compensations (GG Refueling)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #193
Re: Technician career & Tools (Society)
Re: Next Software Project- Kenji's post
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: Next software poject
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names
Re: STARPORTS
Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: World generation Modifications

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:57:57 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Slings & Jerry Lewis?

> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> >Of course.  I'm sorry Froggie, but well our Whole Atlantic fleet had a
> >slight accident.  We launched every Tomahawk Missile at Paris & they
should
> >hit in about 5 seconds.
> As an EU citizen I have to protest at the closeness of Paris to the UK -
> Please reconsider using nukes.

Well, I will consider now saying I'm sorry, but well our Whole US Fleet has
had a few slight accidents.  Fist we sunk all your boomers with our
anti-submarine a/c, Destroyers & Frigates, sorry we did not know they were
using live weapons.  Second, it seems that a hacker from Europe broke into
our computer system that controls weapons use & well we lauched every
Tomahawk Cruise Missile we have, including nuclear, at Europe.  Impact
should be in 5 seconds, have a nice day.

> Meanwhile, the French SSBN fleet launches a counter strike against
> Washington and New Year, and they start arming the Iraqi forces...

I knew it you are a frog.  Must kill all froggies.

> Xenophobic roleplaying on the TML - I love it. :-)

Not really, I just hate the French for some reason I shall not go into
here, but it involves being spit on while in Paris in full USMC Uniform &
being told that the Nazis had the right idea to get rid of all the jews..

> Dom

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this puppy.
We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:04:20 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Technician career & Tools (Society)

Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> writes:
>
>> >Certification:  the easy way to deal with it is to say that any
>character
>
>> >who reaches a certain skill level is certified. 
>
>> 
>
>> Make that a task to obtain certification. You might be skilled and fail;
>
>> you might be unskilled and pass. Makes things a bit chancier for
>employers.
>
>
>
>What benefits do you think it should confer?  Most people won't attempt a
>
>task unless motivated to do so.

Mainly in the employment and legal arenas, I think. 

For example, on a high-law-level world you would have to be a certified
mechanic to work on a vehicle; on a low-law-level world you would be
handed a wrench and told "try this one" and if you succeeded you'd be
hired.

On a low-law-level world, if you had medical skill you could fix people.
With higher law levels you'd need certification to try (or risk penalties).


Why do I think there should be a difference between having the skill and
certification?

Example: one of my colleagues teaches English. While in Africa he learned
how to do simple surgery. If he tries it in Canada he'll be in a _lot_ of
trouble (unless the situation requires immediate action and there is no
alternative - thank God for the Good Samaritan laws).

Another example: the dentist I visited while a child missed a lot of
things that would have been simpler to correct back then. he had the
certificate, but my present dentist is _lots_ more skilled.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:00:16 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Fighters?

A person who calls himself Goran said unto us one day:

> 	After reading the articles on fighters and the ups and downs, i have an
> idea for you to batter..
> 
> How about a battle drone.

OK.

> Take an ordinary fighter, rip out the cockpit and life support and use
the
> volume to increase armour and acceleration G's.

Makes sense, so far.

> Put in a computer programmed with tactical info, battle maneuvers, attack
> patterns and evasives. Programmed right you increase the response time
and
> get a faster craft. The best of all is, you only lose the craft if shot
> down. No pilot, no casualty.

All good.

What about predictability?  If I do X then the Battle Drone does Y.

What about messing with programing?

What about say the computer gets scrambled & attacks a civilian target?

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this puppy.
We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:15:55 -0800
From: Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com>
Subject: Re: Religion in America & Traveller too!

>> ..or you could argue that atheists simply apply Occams razor to the
>>problem...
>
>Perhaps, but in doing so they fail to heed the wisdom of "Pascal's
>Wager!" ;-p

Neither did Pascal himself. Strange that those who use Pascal's Wager only
apply it to their own religion and never convert to all the other faiths it
applies equally well to.

- --
Richard Hough
richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:21:53 -0800
From: Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com>
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

> However, _real_ world meson guns (if they could be built) would would
>have their
> meson decay happen along a line segment, making any kind of deep meson gun
> completely unfeasable. This is because if you adjust the half time of the
>mesons by
> accelerating them to relativistic speeds, all you have done is to alter
>the probability
> curve for the decay, since half time means the time where half of the
>particles in
> question have decayed. There is no way of exactly knowing the _life_ time
>of an
> individual particle.

What if you slewed the meson beam a little so, instead of the decay
happening on a line segment, it gets spread out over a volume. This would
make it more difficult to track backwards to the source. Also, the
'explosion' would occupy a spherical region in space and tend to cause more
collateral damage.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:29:42 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: A question about grav compensations (GG Refueling)

Actually, I've about decided that this is the way it'll work IMTU also. At
least for civilian ships. Military ships will probably use the faster, high
speed skimming technique. So now I can finish the scenario and stick the
players in that Titanic situation! Hey, this heretic stuff is fun ;^>

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, February 20, 1998 2:01 AM
Subject: Re: A question about grav compensations (GG Refueling)


>Actually, I don't see where the rules don't support a slower refueling
>approach (not that rules bother me much ;-).  Sure FFS2 "requires"
>hypersonic streamlining, but I've decided you only need that kind of
>streamlining if you *don't* have CG on your ship.  If you do have CG, you
>can float along like your whale or stately Zepplin, and that's the method
>I'd prefer.
>
>
>Eris

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:48:41 +1300
From: Raymond John Gray <raygun@ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #193

Please can you guys and gals send me all the stuff you have on Pocket
Empires/Imperial Squadrons.  Even if you're French.

Cheers Ears
Ray

P.S. What is going on with the Imperium Games Homesite.  Do they have a vacancy for a
wbmaster or what?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:00:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Technician career & Tools (Society)

These are good points.  Thank you for making them.  I think that I went a
little bit overboard.

Clark


On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Rob Prior wrote:

> I wrote:
>
> >> >Certification:  the easy way to deal with it is to say that any
> >character
> >
> >> >who reaches a certain skill level is certified. 
> >
> >> 
> >
> >> Make that a task to obtain certification. You might be skilled and fail;
> >
> >> you might be unskilled and pass. Makes things a bit chancier for
> >employers.
> >
> >
> >
> >What benefits do you think it should confer?  Most people won't attempt a
> >
> >task unless motivated to do so.
> 
> Mainly in the employment and legal arenas, I think. 
> 
> For example, on a high-law-level world you would have to be a certified
> mechanic to work on a vehicle; on a low-law-level world you would be
> handed a wrench and told "try this one" and if you succeeded you'd be
> hired.
> 
> On a low-law-level world, if you had medical skill you could fix people.
> With higher law levels you'd need certification to try (or risk penalties).
> 
> 
> Why do I think there should be a difference between having the skill and
> certification?
> 
> Example: one of my colleagues teaches English. While in Africa he learned
> how to do simple surgery. If he tries it in Canada he'll be in a _lot_ of
> trouble (unless the situation requires immediate action and there is no
> alternative - thank God for the Good Samaritan laws).
> 
> Another example: the dentist I visited while a child missed a lot of
> things that would have been simpler to correct back then. he had the
> certificate, but my present dentist is _lots_ more skilled.
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:57:39 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Next Software Project- Kenji's post

Kenji,
This is the worst message yet! I've been studying it for about 6 hours now
and I haven't found the hidden meaning or double endender (sic?). I'm weak
with worry since I just know that there is some secret message to the
Templer Mind Control Group that has the duty of directing the TML but I just
can't find it. I'm scared... What! No I don't need the medication! I mean it
I don't want the ... ahah, What was I saying?

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kenji Schwarz <kenji@accessone.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, February 20, 1998 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: Next Software Project


>My vote is for Metator, big time.  Andy Akin's FFS spreadsheet is great for
>ship building, and I don't see the point in duplicating his effort, really.
>A solar system and world builder that allows customization and tinkering
>with the results, like his FFS2 spreadsheet does, would be GREAT.  I'd pay
>multiple registration fees for it, if that's any encouragement <G>.
>
>Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:09:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

Hi Richard,

Thanks for reviving the thread.

I was convinced by the half-life argument that we should leave the meson
gun handwave alone (okay, brand me for a lazy brain :).  If we really want
to figure it out, we have to go and give TL 11 a better way to quantify
the lifetimes of particles, and that's a Pandora's Box if I ever saw one.
Undoubtedly it's been hacked beyond recognition by the PhDs on the TML
already. ;-)

We can make it hard or easy to locate a meson emitter by making it hard or
easy to get readings on decaying mesons.  That is, I think it's really a
sensor question, not a meson accelerator / decelerator question.  I think
that existing canonical information on sensors in Traveller is open enough
to let it go either way, except that it has already been specified that a
deep site is really hard to find.

Opinions?


Clarkbert

"Remember, if you see a flash:  Duck!  And Cover!"


On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Richard Hough wrote:

> > However, _real_ world meson guns (if they could be built) would would
> >have their
> > meson decay happen along a line segment, making any kind of deep meson gun
> > completely unfeasable. This is because if you adjust the half time of the
> >mesons by
> > accelerating them to relativistic speeds, all you have done is to alter
> >the probability
> > curve for the decay, since half time means the time where half of the
> >particles in
> > question have decayed. There is no way of exactly knowing the _life_ time
> >of an
> > individual particle.
> 
> What if you slewed the meson beam a little so, instead of the decay
> happening on a line segment, it gets spread out over a volume. This would
> make it more difficult to track backwards to the source. Also, the
> 'explosion' would occupy a spherical region in space and tend to cause more
> collateral damage.
> 
> --
> Richard Hough
> rdhough@orca.bc.ca
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:14:01 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Next software poject

	I vote for Metator.

	I've got enough shipbuilder's/sector generators (at least for IBM). What I
don't have enough of is system generators.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:13:36 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

> Date:          Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:29:05 -0500 (EST)
> From:          HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
> 
>   In a few roleplaying games, there is a formula that permits a GM to
> calculate the "period" of a planet as it orbits a sun.  Off hand, I don't
> recall the formula used in TRAVELLER SCOUTS, but it will give a period
> value.
> 
>   Is it possible, given the Mass of the target sun, plus the "period" of
> the planet, to calculate what the mass of the planet should be?

The short answer: no.

   Normally, the masses of both objects are used to calculate the 
period.  However, because the planet's mass is so small compared to 
the star's, you can get away with using only the star's mass in the 
period equation.  

   To figure out the planet's mass from the period, you'd have to 
have the planet's period and the star's mass (and the masses of other 
bodies in the system) measured to a high degree of accuracy.


>   Also, is it possible, based on the information above, to calculate what
> the density of the planet must be in order to accomodate the mass with a
> specified "diameter"?

Neither the diameter or density of the planet is not used in the 
period calculations above, so you can use whatever method you prefer 
to determine the density or diameter.  

Or is the question how to determine the density if you know the 
diameter (or radius) and mass?  If so, it would be:

   m / (4/3 * pi * r^3)

where m is the planet's mass and r the radius.  I'm going by memory 
for the volume of a sphere (4/3 * pi *r^3) so double-check that.


- --
Edward Swatschek - edjs@mindlink.net

The only truly "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that,
it's all learned. (Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org, in
comp.os.linux.misc, on X interfaces.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:18:35 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names

Merrick Burkhardt wrote:
> 
> The Tigress is from the Ct Supplement 9, "Fighting Ships."
> 
> It is a 500,000 ton BB. Jump 4, 6g, TL15. I actually figured that it
> was something like a 300,000 ton sphere with a 200,000 ton arcade on
> the back from the drawing. When you also consider the "pac-man"
> mouth on it then the length for the spinal weapon gets pretty short.
> 
> This doesn't matter in CT since the meson gun is only 1% of the hull
> :-)
> 
> -Merrick

Yeah.  I always thought the Tigress was designed by an idiot. The
art didn't help either.  Still, even from the art, it is obvious that
that type "T" is puny.

- -Dan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:22:56 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: STARPORTS

	Okay, I know of at least three Starport generation articles.
	One in White Dwarf by ??
	One in Far & Away by William(?) Keith
	One in TTC by Derek Wildstar(?)

	At least one write-up:
	Champas by Loren Wiseman

	One Adventure(?) I guess:
	Starport: Liberty

	I'd have to do a search on the TML digests for how many posts might be
related.

	I think the basic points come down to:

	1. Location, is it one a main, xboat route, located near high pop worlds.
	2. Population.
	3. Tech Level.
	4. What resources/industries are available on planet and off.
	5. Imperial needs (scout base/naval base for example).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:27:01 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names

Clark Crawford wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 deadeye@ebicom.net wrote:
> 
> > > By this I mean that you must select the compoenent solids from
> > > which the ship is constrcted and carefully meantally piece them
> > > together, calculating the resulting surface areas and volumes.
> >
> > Don't be mean:)
> 
> Naw, no reason to really model the hull unless I want an accurate visual
> image of it.  The net effect of modeling the hull is to increase surface
> area without changing the interior volume, which I can do to any extent I
> like simply by adding material (a scalar quantity) to the hull on my
> spreadsheet.  The scalar results are identical (all formulas in FFS are
> based on scalars, IIRC) to the scalar results of modeling.  It's just that
> linear relationship between volume and surface area requirements that does
> it in.  Since surface area is logarithmic, the surface area requirements
> for various components should be logarithmic, too, even if modern science
> says not.  Else we can't even build a 500kdt battleship; and forget about
> the Sylea or stuff from movies.
> 
> (Honestly, I'm still using MT.)
> 
> There just seems to be some disagreement on the list over this.  I think I
> said this all before, though.  Got ignored.  Oh well.  Such is the life of
> a lurker.  :)
> 
> Clark


Hi Clark.

Actaully, for a given solid surface area is proportional to the
square of the linear dimension and volume is proportional to the
cube.

i.e. for a sphere

	surface area = 4*(pi)*r^2

	volume = 1.33*(pi)*r^3

for a cube

	surface area = 6 * l^2

	volume = l^3

for a rectangular prism (letting b & c be constant multiples of a)

	surface area = 2(ab+bc+ac) = 2*(constant1)*a^2

	volume = abc = (constant2)*a^3

These are the actual scalings

- -Dan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:29:14 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

Clark Crawford wrote:
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> Thanks for reviving the thread.
> 
> I was convinced by the half-life argument that we should leave the meson
> gun handwave alone (okay, brand me for a lazy brain :).  If we really want
> to figure it out, we have to go and give TL 11 a better way to quantify
> the lifetimes of particles, and that's a Pandora's Box if I ever saw one.
> Undoubtedly it's been hacked beyond recognition by the PhDs on the TML
> already. ;-)
> 
> We can make it hard or easy to locate a meson emitter by making it hard or
> easy to get readings on decaying mesons.  That is, I think it's really a
> sensor question, not a meson accelerator / decelerator question.  I think
> that existing canonical information on sensors in Traveller is open enough
> to let it go either way, except that it has already been specified that a
> deep site is really hard to find.
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> Clarkbert
> 
> "Remember, if you see a flash:  Duck!  And Cover!"
> 
> On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Richard Hough wrote:
> 
> > > However, _real_ world meson guns (if they could be built) would would
> > >have their
> > > meson decay happen along a line segment, making any kind of deep meson gun
> > > completely unfeasable. This is because if you adjust the half time of the
> > >mesons by
> > > accelerating them to relativistic speeds, all you have done is to alter
> > >the probability
> > > curve for the decay, since half time means the time where half of the
> > >particles in
> > > question have decayed. There is no way of exactly knowing the _life_ time
> > >of an
> > > individual particle.
> >
> > What if you slewed the meson beam a little so, instead of the decay
> > happening on a line segment, it gets spread out over a volume. This would
> > make it more difficult to track backwards to the source. Also, the
> > 'explosion' would occupy a spherical region in space and tend to cause more
> > collateral damage.
> >
> > --
> > Richard Hough
> > rdhough@orca.bc.ca
> >
> >
> >
I think that the agrument for meson beam origin point location
is avlid.  Meson decays should be fairly traceable along their
beam axis.  Even with the best nuclear level tinkering, statistically,
some mesons will decay early and some will decay late.

- -Dan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:24:39 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

At 05:11 PM 2/20/98 EST, Marc Miller wrote:
>SYSTEM CONTENTS
>	2D	PM	Belts	GG	Starport
>	2	1	3	5	A
>	3	2	2	4	A
>	4	3	2	4	A
>	5	4	1	3	B
>	6	5	1	3	B
>	7	5	-	2	C
>	8	5	-	1	C
>	9	6	-	1	D
>	10	7	-	-	E
>	11	8	-	-	E
>	12	9	-	-	E

In general, quite positive.  A couple of comments, though, after running
them through my calculator.

1.  The choice for population multiplier leads to some interesting results,
which may need some tweaking.  The standard population digit is determined
by a 2D-2, and the above gives the multipler.

The following charts list the chance in 36 of seeing a given digit
	pop	pop mult
0	1	0
1	2	1
2	3	2
3	4	3
4	5	4
5	6	21
6	5	4
7	4	3
8	3	2
9	2	1
A	1

To see how many worlds in 36*36, or 1296, worlds are expected to have a
given pop digit and multiplier, multiply the two numbers above.  In other
words, out of 1296, we expect to see 6*21 or 126 worlds with 50,000 people.
 We expect to see only 24 worlds with a population of 40,000, and 24 with
populations of 60,000.  Perhaps more disturbing, we would expect to have
105 worlds with 5,000 and with 500,000 people, so we are far more likely to
have a world with ten times as many people, as one which has only 20% more.

Note: there is no way to get an uninhabited world.  Since I drop all worlds
with populations below a ten thousand to zero, or come up with a reason,
this is not a problem for me.

In my game, very few worlds have less than a million people.  (This is, in
my mind, well below that needed to support a technological population, and
thus the scouts may well ignore them.

I also have decided that the peak of the curve is at roughly 250 million
people.  It decays off of that quickly for low population, and more slowly
for high population.

As an easy proposal, how about having pop A worlds have a different chart
than other worlds, as follows:
2D	pop 	PM for pop A
2	1	1
3	2	1
4	3	1
5	4	1
6	5	1
7	6	1
8	7	1
9	7	2
A	8	3
B	9	4
C	A	5

Non pop A worlds have the multiplier is determined as before - ~11 percent
chance for each possibility between 1 and 9.

Note: for my own universe, I have a more detailed system:

1/3 of all worlds are uninhabited.  1/6 have populations less than 6.  1/6
have populations of 6 and 7, with heavy weighting towards high sevens.  1/6
have populations between 9 and 10, with heavy weighting on the low nines.
The remaining 1/6 have a population of 8, with the largest likelihood being
around 300,000,000, and a slow decay as it goes up.  There are more worlds
with population 9 than 10, and most of the worlds with population 10 have a
population of ten billion.

These can be fiddled, and when I have finished the stats, I will let anyone
know who cares, but I am assuming this is because those worlds that
actually grew during the Long Night tended to be good worlds.

2.  Is it really correct that 21/36 of all worlds do not have an asteroid
belt?  This seems OK to me, but my impression was that such belts were
common in Traveller, as opposed to only existing on 7 worlds in 7/12.  If
we do this, belt mining becomes more reasonable, in those relatively few
systems that have such belts.

3.  I like the larger number of gas giants.  This seems to match the solar
system a tad batter, with its 4 gas giants, than the old systems I saw
which would put this at the top of the scale.  This does mean that only one
world in six will be lacking a gas giant - do we want to make fuel skimming
that much more likely?  (I do, but this may not be the norms.)

4.  The port rules imply that 1 world in 12 has a class A, and 1 world in
12 has a class E.  Ship construction would likely become more important,
then, on those worlds that could do it.  Further, an additional 3/12 come
from worlds that can build non starships, so approximately 1/3 of all
worlds can have significant SDB capability easily.  (SBDs will require
maintenance, which would require a class A or B facility, unless I have
misunderstood the rules.)

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #201
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 202



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Starport Economics
Re: Next Software Project
Tube Steak
Re:CD-ROM\TML posts
The True Identity of Ditzie!
The vote is cast: for Metator
Player wanted in the Ottawa Region
Re: Entertainment in the Traveller Universe AND culture
Traveller chatting
Re: Magazines in the Traveller Universe
Re: ideas
Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: ideas
Re: new question of the week
Re: Fighters?
Re: Fw: Majordomo results: Unsubscribe.
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:33:02 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Starport Economics

At 03:27 AM 2/18/98 GMT, you wrote:
>I've been reading up on the thread on Starship economics and when the mention
>came up about the huge MegaCorp Super freighters we all assume are out
there I
>thought that would be a fun thing to us to get more familiar with FF&S2's
ship
>design sequences.  Then I thought "how much tonnage trade does a Starport
>generate in a week?"
>    And suddenly I realized I haven't a CLUE and that this is a very
important
>thing to know because this would effect the size of the ship a MegaCorp would
>put on such a run.  After all you don't want cargo space to be wasted and you
>want to make sure that you have enough.  So how do you figure out how much
>tonnage in cargo goes through a Starport in a given week?

Damn good question.  PE gives some decent answers, but I am being somewhat
heretical on this one.

The way I did it was to calculate the total GDP.  I then have a tax of 5%
for the imperial military, and 2% for all support services provided by the
Imperium, including nobles estates, research projects, starport
maintenance, and so on.  This 7% tax, in general, either produced things
that went off world, or went off world directly, and so represented star
port activity.  This gave me a direct amount of money, which could then map
to goods, which form a major part of off world traffic.  Given the
infrastructure to support these needed activities, further cargo shipment
is likely of the same order.

I have also done a different take, in which I assumed that ocean travel
today is roughly equivalent, more or less, to stellar travel in the 3I, and
so similar numbers of people travel.  If this is roughly the same, then the
system is more consistent.  Goods, over the long haul, can be more value
dense than people, but if the two numbers are similar, then I can get a
rough idea of the value of a ton of cargo space.

My final check was to see that the cost per ton of cargo of a merchant
vessel made some sense.  I am assuming in my universe that merchant ships
tend to be far less valuable than the goods they carry, thus a pirate will
want to take the stuff, without being too motivated to take the ship in
question.  Further, a large insurance policy for the crew will make the
pirates consider ransom, instead of murder.  If this number fit, then I
would be happy that my measures were consistent.

Input numbers:
Per million people at TL 12:
PCGDP: 10000MCr
fleet:  500MCr
tax:    200MCr
Average efficiency (tons cargo/tons vessel): 80%.
Average cost per ton of a merchant vessel:
	0.016-0.1 depending on luxury
Average cost, per ton of cargo, of a paramilitary vessel:
	0.25 MCr
Average cost, per ton of cargo, of a military vessel:
	2 MCr

Average cost, per ton of cargo, of a merchant vessel:
	0.02-0.1
Passengers/ton:
	Frozen: 7 (2 M^3/person!)
	Steerage: 2
	Low: 1 
	Mid: 0.5
	high: 0.25

Average cargo shipment cost, one "average" jump:
	500Cr

Ticket costs:
	Frozen: 100
	Steerage: 300
	Low: 600
	Mid: 1200
	High: 2500

The average goods shipped should be value dense, or they are not worth
paying for the shipping costs.  Judging by today's goods, my ballpark
estimate for containerized cargo says that a ton of value dense goods is
probably worth 10KCr, or twenty times the shipment cost for one "average"
jump.

Therefore, to determine traffic for such a world, per million people.

Measure one - taxes:
700MCr becomes about 70,000 tons of value dense traffic for this
population.  For this, merchants will get 35MCr.  Assuming that a similar
amount to that paid out in taxes is imported/exported another 70kt is
needed.  This gives us 0.07 tons of high value goods per person.  If an air
car is a one ton unit, then an imported air car could be bought by up to
one person in 14 in a given year, by these rules.

Thus, merchants have made 70MCr moving 140Kt of goods for this planet.
This will require 47 typical containerized cargo vessels to stop on this
world once in the year.  A typical cargo vessel makes 25 stops a year, and
thus 2 ships could handle this level of traffic.  Those two ships would run
on the order 90MCr to purchase, which means that roughly 18MCr a year will
recover the base construction costs, leaving 52 to cover expenses not
assumed in standard maintenance.

In addition, value-light cargo of similar cost, but up to ten times as much
volume will likely arrive on a typical world.  This implies roughly 0.7
displacement tons of cheap goods, such as organics, raw materials,
foodstuffs, or other goodies per citizen, giving another 350MCR for moving
700Kt of goods.  This would take 233 stops, which can be done by ten more
ships.

So, we have a total traffic, per million people, of 12 merchant ships.
These are 3Kt bulk carriers.

Now, if people generate a lot more off world trade than they do military or
Imperial money, then we need correspondingly more ships.  For example, if
we have 15% of the economy going off world, then we need to have an
additional (roughly) 24 ships.  This is the equivalent of virtually
everyone buying a new foreign air car each year, plus 8 cubic meters of
imported goodies a MONTH.  This seems like an acceptable upper bound.

Since these ships only have a few crew spaces, most likely, then we do not
have a lot of spacers - possibly just a few hundred per million.

I will leave passenger traffic for a later time, but note that it is likely
to be a smaller economic impact, since cargo does not complain, and does
not need to be fed, while passengers do, thus merchants will be able to cut
closer to the margin with freight.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 01:37:53 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Next Software Project

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote:

>>In a message dated 98-02-19 13:55:35 EST, you write:
>><< 4) FFS2 (both Mac/PC a way away) - as it says >>
>>this one has my vote....
>
>Andy Akins spreadsheet actually does FFS2 ship design very nicely - I would
>say a mapping program might be more interesting.

Has anyone converted this to ClarisWorks?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:12:33 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Tube Steak

Kenji Schwarz

>Right.  So will one of you creative knee-jerk liberal permissive types
>please write up a "Ship's Locker" and/or "Bestiary"-type article on that
>popular trade item in the Third Imperium and beyond, the tube steak?

Dealt with in 2300 AD already. Food Extruders(tm), Home of the Footlong
Hardboiled Egg!(tm), q.v.viz, bvd biz

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 98 02:12:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Re:CD-ROM\TML posts

On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:49:50 Kagehira@aol.com Wrote...
> I know no one's objected so far. But does anybody have objections to
> their TML mailings being on the CD-ROM?  I'm more than willing to post
> whatever copyright notices anybody wants on the material. And in fact
> have requested such when possible.
    I certainly don't and I want a copy of that CD-ROM!  Might I suggest though
that you put a front end piece or something that prominantly pops up everytime
the CD is accessed that acknowledges all copyrights of all posters and that
they specifically retain their copyrights?
    Though if memory serves... I thought posting to the Internet essentially
placed the work in the Public Domain unless you specifically said otherwise?
Can one of our resident pond scu- ERR, LAWYERS please comment on this?

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 98 02:12:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: The True Identity of Ditzie!

On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:50:52 johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU Wrote...
>> I have a 2 year old daughter. One of her favorite games is to sit down
>> with a pad of paper, a pen, a calculator and my copy of FFS, and draw
>> on the paper, and press buttons on the calculator. Just like Daddy.
> AHA! The True Identity of Ditzie Spofulam is revealed at last!!!
    ROTFLMOL!!!!
    You have to wonder where the rest of the gang in the "Junor Designer's
Creche" come from too you know. ;)

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:42:04 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: The vote is cast: for Metator

Wish me luck and the support of the diety of your choice as I embark on
the Great Metator Recoding.

Recoding is necessary to (a) remove bugs and (b) make it easy to PC-adapt.
See, I wasn't kidding when I said that this would take a while.  


I plan on posting progressive demo releases to the old DMCI web site
(www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub) for as long as it exists. After it
is cancelled later this spring I may need some kind soul to host the
software (and all the other goodies the site had).

I presume my usual playtesters are still willing :-)


Unless I hear otherwise, priority is:

1) expand UWP into Scouts-style system 
2) detail worlds as per DGP's World Builders Handbook
3) print and export textual data
4) generate system-wide details (eg. naval squadrons)
5) create and print spiffy colour maps (last because it will be hardest to
port to the PC)




PS. I may still do a QSDS for my own use, so I can participate in the
THUDD contest. Haven't got any of those spreadsheets working with Excel
4.0 yet.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:00:53 -0500
From: "Daniel Poulin" <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Player wanted in the Ottawa Region

Sorry to disturb you with this ladies and gents, but my group is looking
for one or two players to join a campaign in the region of Ottawa, ON,
Canada.  Please get in touch with me if you are interested.

Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:46:48 -0600
From: deadeye@ebicom.net
Subject: Re: Entertainment in the Traveller Universe AND culture

> they feel like tourists in a foreign country despite them being just as
> Imperial as the NPCs.
> 
> My current campaign has been going on for 6 years realtime and my major
> player still feels alienated from time to time. How do the other refs
> handle this?
> 

One way is to stress the uniqueness of the Imperial culture.  IMTU most
worlds are REALLY Vilani, much like India crossed with Japan.  The
occasional Solomani dominatant world stands out!  In my universe
Imperial culture is heavily influenced by Vland but is still rather
Solomani.

To me the solution IS to isolate them-make your PC's feel like aliens in
a strange culture.  The Imperium rules the starlanes, not the worlds. 
So the Imperial Culture is a culture of space and spacefarers-their
buddies and other Imperials.

That is not to say many worlds don't have have a strong lean in this
direction(Imperial,) but the PC's should be drawn to each other not the
local populace. Additionally, the PC's should find a great deal of
common ground in the military and the nobility circles that form the
core of the "Imperial culture."  These folks should be very much like
the PC's and unlike the generally closed minded worlds the group
visits-open but conservative, "western" with some Vilani influences. 
And strong commitment to the government that brings them identity and
binds them to each other in the vast reaches of the Third Imperium.

Having problems with an individual player?  Here you have to detail a
stong background riddled with history, NPC's and contacts of interest to
yourself and the PC.  These NPC's and events should each elaborate on a
section or tidbit of the Imperial culture, drawing him in and co-opting
him as he explores the options.  ie make him the center of attention for
awhile, but to be so he must explore that background.  Make him red up
and be the expert instead of telling him everything.  Eventually he will
"go critical" and run on his own.  One or two exceptionally cool events
directly contrasting/highlighting the character's Imperial heritage will
light the fire if the player is good.

An example of a flavour tidbit from my campaign of no great import, but
still important to the feel of the game I run:

As the Captain and entourage approach the hatch, Lt Prainden, the pilot,
comes aft and apologizes.  Interneviss pops the iris valve and soon
Hollandhaise and his accompanyment are aboard Battleship Razor.  There
they are rung aboard by the Bosons Mate on the Quarterdeck, a lavish
affair decorated by elegant and splendid  paintings and military decor
from the navies of several patron worlds.  Particularly noticable is a
Dancini painitng of Nelsons apocryphal appearance at the Battle of 
Kuril.   the painting depicts the spirit of Admiral Nelson, replete with
ancient British dress and cap, urging on the gallant but outnumbered
Terrans at Kuril.  Of course the Terrans went on to defeat the Vilani in
that battle, and no one really knows the true origin of the story.)

Just a bit of color. Who cares about a stinking painting BUT is is
there.  Now say that the PC's great great great grandmother was
Dancini's lover and knew the true story of that painting.  And perhaps
someone desired to have that old relic and sell it to some high paying
Vilani who maybe didn't like the "legend."  And maybe it was up to the
PC to protect his families legacy and honor.  And honor is the Imperial
culture, the one thing IMHO that makes it really different from ours.

Lots of little incidents like this grab players.  Make Imperial culture
unusual but close enough that they can be alienated by everything else.
Make them step up and edumacate the npc's.  Then they will know what it
feels like to be Imperial.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 15:04:07 +1100
From: scout <scout@microtech.com.au>
Subject: Traveller chatting

Hi, ... after a two month break I'm back. 
And naturally enough... I have a question. 
Are there any traveller chat lines? I've looked at the one at
imperiumgames.com, and can't get a connection. Is there anyplace else where
people are trav chatting???



Harry

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:36:04 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Magazines in the Traveller Universe

At 08:52 PM 2/19/1998 +0000, you wrote:
>
>The use of names and titles of periodicals and journals in a game tend to
enhance the realism.  The following titles, are used by one of my
characters whose hobby is hunting.
[sniparoonies]
>Any Additions or Comments

On the lighter side of things (or not,
depending on what he's hunting):

"Most Wanted List", an in-house publication
of Seedy Space Ranger Bar, LIC (a franchise
"theme" establishment common to where ever
your players operate).

It's a "People"-style celebrity gossip
mag, but good for the occasional red
herring or bit of real info from an 
oddball source.

(SSRB, LIC started off as one of those running-gag
sort of things in my first campaign, and just 
kept snowballing....)


JB

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:41:19 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: ideas

>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:55:07 -0800
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
>Subject: Re: ideas

>At 01:08 AM 2/21/98 +1300, you wrote:
>>Breaking one of my fundimental rules (nerver post in public while smashed
>>out of your mind), I would like to politely request some feedback on some
>>of my more "off the wall" concepts:

>>1) The "Phantom of the Opera" as a Traveller senario too

>This has possibilities, especially if the Phantom is a long stranded
>Imperial scout using the rements of his high tech equipment to haunt the
>Opera House.. hmmm.. I like this one.

>>2) Zulu's in space

>How would they breathe?   Seriously, the horde of low tech fanatics vs. the
>squad of high tech soldiers is a Traveller staple.

Actually I was thinking of replicating their culture. However in doing
that I came up with another idea: just how superstitious are the citizens
of the 3rd Imp? (don't ask me how I made that connection)

Think of starship crews, they spend about half their lives in Jumpspace
(a very weird place); they must be some of the most superstitious people
around. So just what myths and legends do spacers have? What monsters are
rumoured to inhabit Jumpspace?

>>iv) Traveller as a generic game system (a "magic" system for Traveller)

>No.  Not.  The only way I would accept this is a world where the local
>wizards are psionicists.

This was just my idle wonderings if the Traveller game mechanics could be
adapted to other genres. I think it could (well I think it would be
interesting to try).

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"15 into 1 does go, I'm living proof"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:54:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the reply and the formulas.  I understand the progression; my
use of the term "logarithmic" was imprecise.  I should have said that the
ratios are closer to being logarithmic than linear.

When modeling a hull as a set of several geometric solids, one must remove
the portions of the surfaces which are up against another solid.  That is
difficult and requires CAD, IMHO.


Thanks,
Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  Duck!  And Cover!"

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Daniel Ray Lane wrote:

> > > > By this I mean that you must select the compoenent solids from
> > > > which the ship is constrcted and carefully meantally piece them
> > > > together, calculating the resulting surface areas and volumes.

[snip discussion of scalars et. al.]

> Hi Clark.
> 
> Actaully, for a given solid surface area is proportional to the
> square of the linear dimension and volume is proportional to the
> cube.

[snip formulas]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:57:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Daniel Ray Lane wrote:

> I think that the agrument for meson beam origin point location
> is valid.  Meson decays should be fairly traceable along their
> beam axis.  Even with the best nuclear level tinkering, statistically,
> some mesons will decay early and some will decay late.

I agree, it should only require a simple triangulation of several shots to
give a targeting solution on a deep site.  That's not how they did it,
though, so I guess that those little buggers are a bit harder to track.

Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:39:04 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names

Clark Crawford wrote:
> 
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> Thanks for the reply and the formulas.  I understand the progression; my
> use of the term "logarithmic" was imprecise.  I should have said that the
> ratios are closer to being logarithmic than linear.
> 
> When modeling a hull as a set of several geometric solids, one must remove
> the portions of the surfaces which are up against another solid.  That is
> difficult and requires CAD, IMHO.
> 
> Thanks,
> Clark
> 
> --
> "Remember, if you see a flash:  Duck!  And Cover!"
> 
> On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Daniel Ray Lane wrote:
> 
> > > > > By this I mean that you must select the compoenent solids from
> > > > > which the ship is constrcted and carefully meantally piece them
> > > > > together, calculating the resulting surface areas and volumes.
> 
> [snip discussion of scalars et. al.]
> 
> > Hi Clark.
> >
> > Actaully, for a given solid surface area is proportional to the
> > square of the linear dimension and volume is proportional to the
> > cube.
> 
> [snip formulas]


Yep.  Doing it by hand is the most difficult part of ship design for me.
But I sure am proud when I finish a hullform.

- -Dan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:41:01 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

Clark Crawford wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Daniel Ray Lane wrote:
> 
> > I think that the agrument for meson beam origin point location
> > is valid.  Meson decays should be fairly traceable along their
> > beam axis.  Even with the best nuclear level tinkering, statistically,
> > some mesons will decay early and some will decay late.
> 
> I agree, it should only require a simple triangulation of several shots to
> give a targeting solution on a deep site.  That's not how they did it,
> though, so I guess that those little buggers are a bit harder to track.
> 
> Clark
> 
> --
> "Remember, if you see a flash:  Duck!  And Cover!"


Traveller is remarkably ignorant of potential synergies in its many
technologies.  They seem to almost be "compartented," with little
apparent cross-pollination.  IMO, meson countertargetting might not
be easy, but it would be possible.  So would counterargetting vs.
grav focues lasers.

- -Dan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:18:35 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: ideas

> This was just my idle wonderings if the Traveller game mechanics could be
> adapted to other genres. I think it could (well I think it would be
> interesting to try).
>   Andrew etc.

It works quite well.  I once ran a campign were all the characters were
from a Low Tech World with no interaction with the 3I.  Great fun, based it
on Sharpe's Rifles.

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this puppy.
We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:26:28 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: new question of the week

Hey there Semo.  I went ahead and signed you up for the list but I'm not
sure if 2nd party signups work or not.  If you do not get a message
about being on the list within 1-2 days, then please refer to the info
below :

===============================================================================================================

Thomas Biskup runs a mailing list that focuses on discussions of the
Gamma World game. To subscribe to
the list, send E-mail to Majordomo@saranxis.ruhr.de with the words
"subscribe gworld" in the body of
the message. Please be patient while waiting for a response since
Thomas' system isn't directly connected
to the net. Postings are usually sent out once a day, but there are
occasions when it takes longer. 

===============================================================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:47:32 -0800
From: Goran Sjoberg <NGC1201@communique.se>
Subject: Re: Fighters?

At 17:00 1998-02-20 -0700, "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:

>What about predictability?  If I do X then the Battle Drone does Y.

It has sensors that analyze the alien craft and depending on its
maneuverability it chooses its most efficient response.

Of course all of this takes a microsecond in time.

>What about say the computer gets scrambled & attacks a civilian target?

Thats why we have back-ups. Perhaps it sends an ID-marker signal to the
opposing craft and with no/wrong response signal it attacks. 

Or maybe an advanced image recognition system. We know all the targets from
sensor data, feed it into the drones and theres little chance of mistakes
unless another identical ship bounces into the game. 

Then i guess the drone chooses the most likely target. Even two identical
ships must differ somewhat.

As for damage on the computer: wrap it into hard armour and put it safely
in the middle of the ship. Its very similar to a black box in planes, only
this is an an active one.

Goran

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 02:57:15 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Majordomo results: Unsubscribe.

Shadow wrote:


>In mail you write:
>
>> From: Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net>
>                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Note the above address. It's the address the list sees you as posting from.
>
>>>The last time I tried to do a GET, I was told that I was not a member,
even
>>>though I keep getting posts.  To those trying to get off, hang on.  There
>>>seems to something wrong with the robot (majordomo) that runs the list.
>>>
>>>>>>>> unsubscribe traveller kherrend@stlgate.byu.edu
>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>This address is *not* the address the list sees you as posting from, so
>*of course* it won't unsubscribe you!

OK, but, I get the same kind of results when I try to do a GET.  The
Majordomo software said that kherrend@stlgate.byu.edu wasn't a member, not
cybernot@gte.net.  I'm confused.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 02:24:15 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.

"Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:

> The TL15 chameleon option is the same technology as is used on high tech
> battledress.  If seen from a distance and not moving, a person can lie flat
> against a wall without being seen, provided the observer is pretty much
> "straight out" from the wall and there are no other observers around 
> with a better angle.

> There is also an (intentional) lack of IR masking.  In my opinion, it takes
> a closed loop refrigeration system which, while possible in powered armor
> with the energy and space it has available, is *not* possible in a couple
> of layers of spandex.

I would think that IR masking would *definitely* be included.  Combat
Environment Suits (TL 10) have basic IR masking using a chemical chill can
which makes them IR invisible for 45 minutes and at TL 12 the suits can
have a chameleon option which "selectively bleeds heat to match the
background IR level, effectively rendering the solider invisible to IR
sensors."  From Mercenary (CT Book 4) page 41.  The CE suit is in CT, MT,
and TNE, and in CT & MT it weighs 2 kg, so this IR masking doesn't weigh
very much.  I always assumed it was a network of thermally conducting
wires and micor-thin metal strips and solid-state cooling and heating
circuits woven into the suit.  I see no reason why the stealth suits could
not also have a similar IR chameleon option.  This IR chameleon option
looks to be considerably easier than actual visible-light color changing. 

Anyway, for the visible chameleon effect, I thought about this a bit, and
based on chameleon painting of ships and such I'd introduce the following: 

TL 11 or 12:  Color changing fabric: Combat gear can change to up to a
dozen pre-set patterns such as desert cammo, arctic cammo, jungle cammo,
jet black, and international orange (for easy rescue)... 

TL 12 or 13: Basic Chameleon clothing:  Clothing can match its basic color
with the general environment.  Instead of having to rely on a pre-set
jungle cammo suit this cloth will change so that it contains the same
basic colors and patterns of its surroundings.  The detail and resolution
of this color changing is fairly rough, so it works well as night, in
cover, and at long distances, but is quite obvious close up, even if the
target is stationary. 

TL 14 or 15:  Full Chameleon Clothing: Clothing can do a detailed match of
its surroundings, the resolution is even better than the color-changing
flounders which are capable of (roughly) imitating plaid.  Someone
standing against a brick wall will have a detailed version of the pattern
of the brick wall upon their clothing. Seen from straight on at more than
10 meters away this camouflage works extremely well even in broad
daylight, as long as the subject is stationary or moves slowly.  Running
causes the pattern to blur noticeably. 

TL 15 or 16:  Same as above, but no blur when running.

Comments?


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #202
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 203



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.
Re: Fw: Majordomo results: Unsubscribe.
IG Website WAS Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #193
Re: Slings & Jerry Lewis?
Drone fighters
Re: Tube Steak
T4.1 when is it being published?  Was slated for January
Re: Semo's recent posts
Re: STARPORTS
More about the Technician Career
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: Drone fighters
The Voyage
Re: More about the Technician Career
RE: ideas  [Hauntings, magic, and psionics]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:54:28 -0400
From: "Alan M. Nuss" <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.

X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>There's a neurological disorder called "Korsakov's Syndrome" in which a
person has no >memory consolidation. They can remember new things for
perhaps ten or fifteen >minutes, but then forget completely. This can
happen while they're wide awake and >talking to you; they seem perfectly
normal until they ask you, for the third time, who you >are.

I used to work with a guy who suffered brain damage from a car
accicdent.  His problem
was he would only remember something for about 10 minutes and then
forget it.
However, he could remember everything that happened if it was about 24
hours or more
in the past.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:07:29 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Majordomo results: Unsubscribe.

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:

>OK, but, I get the same kind of results when I try to do a GET.  The
>Majordomo software said that kherrend@stlgate.byu.edu wasn't a member, not
>cybernot@gte.net.  I'm confused.

He mightn't be anymore. I emailed him the unsubscribe info when he did his
'get me off this list routine'. Hasn't emailed back so I assume he has
gone...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:52:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: IG Website WAS Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #193

Ray Gray wrote:

>P.S. What is going on with the Imperium Games Homesite.  Do they have a
>vacancy for a
>wbmaster or what?

Try Danny/Vanya's "not the IG website" at

http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html

They're updated regularly...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:48:34 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Slings & Jerry Lewis?

 "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:

>Not really, I just hate the French for some reason I shall not go into
>here, but it involves being spit on while in Paris in full USMC Uniform &
>being told that the Nazis had the right idea to get rid of all the jews..

:-\

Okay, but when you have that big nuclear party in Paris try to keep the
noise (and mess) down ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:31:29
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Drone fighters

Goran,

The problem with fighters isnt that they blow up with depressing
regularity. The problem is that they do not have the length or volume to
mount big enough weapons to hurt most warships (range is a functon of
length for meson guns and particle accelerators).

Therefore, they tend to be relegated to police and customs work (which they
do well IMO).

Taking out the pilot also saves mostly volume - pilots and their
crestations dont weigh much, and with non-jump ships it is mass not volume
that is your main limit.

A police cutter needs a lot more human decision making than a combat ship
does.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:11:20 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Tube Steak

>Kenji Schwarz
>
>>Right.  So will one of you creative knee-jerk liberal permissive types
>>please write up a "Ship's Locker" and/or "Bestiary"-type article on that
>>popular trade item in the Third Imperium and beyond, the tube steak?
>
>Dealt with in 2300 AD already. Food Extruders(tm), Home of the Footlong
>Hardboiled Egg!(tm), q.v.viz, bvd biz

Ah!  I was thinking that the Tube Steak (and Tube Steak Lite) might well
turn out to be a product of Sayat (or Pentapod, in 2300 terms)
bioengineering.  Advancing ever forward the frontiers of intercultural
interstellar misunderstanding!

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:15:05 EST
From: VolantZep@aol.com
Subject: T4.1 when is it being published?  Was slated for January

I have been out of the loop for a few months, what is the word on the new
edition of T4?

Good to be back on the list :>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:41:22 +0000
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Semo's recent posts

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote,
>I'd just like to join in the choruses of well done. I've cut and saved
>them all.

Here, here!  And I'd also like to thank all the other folks who have 
donated good and interesting stuff (including you, Andrew, for the Ine 
Givar).  Makes me feel quite small...
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
Various Traveller IS Forms: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:51:53 +0000
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: STARPORTS

<Kagehire@aol.com> writes,
>       Okay, I know of at least three Starport generation articles.
>       One in White Dwarf by ??
        White Dwarf #43, "Happy Landings!" by Thomas M Price.

>       One in Far & Away by William(?) Keith
        Far & Away #1, "Planetfall" and "The Compleat Starport" by 
        J. Andrew Keith.

>       One in TTC by Derek Wildstar(?)
        Which issue was this?  I don't seem to have it (I'm still after 
        issues 1, 3 and 4, and 13 is still in the post).

Also of use generating them:
        Space Gamer vol II #1, "Universal Bar Generator" by Bill Burg.

        Travellers' Digest #16, "System Rescue Facilities and Lifeboats"
        by Harvey Fawcett.

        "World Builder's Handbook" p.74 for placement
        (which cities have them?  How many in orbit?).

        "Hard Times" deals with their DEgeneration...

>       At least one write-up:
>       Champas by Loren Wiseman
        JTAS #7.

Also
        Dragon vol VI #9, "Exonidas Spaceport" by Jeff Swycaffer.

        "Knightfall" describes Desmas Downport (where one of the
        adventures partly occurs) and provides a generic class A Down
        Starport (p.44).


>       One Adventure(?) I guess:
>       Starport: Liberty
        "Startown Liberty" by John Marshal (AKA the brothers Keith) - 
        random encounters.

Also
        JTAS #12, "Amber Zone: Tarkine Down" by Roger Moore - 
        mercenary PCs have to protect the starport.

        "Knightfall" scenario 2 nuggets 1-8 (see above).

Also of use for running ports:
        JTAS #19, "Skyport Authority" by John M. Ford: 
        describes starport staff as a career.

        JTAS #22, "From Port To Jump-point" by Leroy Guatney:
        ships in port, in-system encounters, etc.

        Traveller's Digest #14, "Scout Brew" by Chester Cox and Nancy
        Parker: what happens when you visit a bar generated above. ;-)

Non-Traveller but applicable:
        Arcane #7, "Sintra Station" by Ken & Jo Walton.

That's it for printed resources - anybody got any more?


>I'd have to do a search on the TML digests for how many posts might be
>related.

You should probably work with Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca> if
you're compiling a reference work - see his 19 Feb 1998 post "Starports:
Potential FAQ Information".

Here's a few I've saved (can't think how best to format this):

Marc Miller <CardSharks@aol.com>: 16 Jan 1998 - "Re: Spaceports"
[T4.1 draft]

Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>: 24 Jan 1998 - "Starports in White
Dwarf 43" [stats from the article]

Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>: 15 Jan 1998 - "Space Station
Architect's Manual / Starport Topography" [for highports]

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>: 16 Jan 1998 - "Re:
Spaceports" [Requirements for placement]

Hal Carmer <hal@buffnet.net>: 15 Jan 1998 - "spaceport authority
customs"

"Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs" thread, Jan 1998.

"Starport offices" and "Trade Stations" threads, Jan 1998, esp. Douglas
<douglas@teleport.com>: 13 Jan 1998 - "Re: Trade Stations and Red
crew/Blue crew" [warehousing]

"Starport Procedures and Fees, and other questions." thread, Nov-Dec
1997

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>: 24 Nov 1997 - "Re: Sector
data revisions" and follow-ups [low TL starports]

Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>: 14 Nov 1997 - "Sector Data
Combed Over" [number of ports of each type per sector]

Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>: 06 Oct 1997 - "Re: Starports" and
followups [construction costs and port size]

Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>: 30 Sep 1997 - "Re: Startown Chandlery" [a
list of equipment to buy]

Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>: 25 Sep 1997 - "Port Authority
Checklist" and followups [things a ship must have] - also "Shipboard
Safety Equipment" and "Survival Pod Inventory".

Marc Miller <CardSharks@aol.com>: 28 Aug 1997 - "Re: Boredom and
homicidal insanity in Traveller" ['unofficial' facilities]

Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>: 5 Jun 1997 - "Starports" [how starports
grow]

Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca>: 18 Aug 1997 - "How Big is Your
Starport?" and followups [port size and facilities]

Peter H. Brenton <brenton@psfc.mit.edu>: 7 Jul 1997 - "Re: Battle Damage
and Breakdown Repairs (long : Contains rules)" [ship repair]


plus lots more on starport/starship economics and interworld commerce,
and peripherally-related subjects like starship security.


Phew!  Hope that's useful to someone. 
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
Various Traveller IS Forms: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:52:15
From: Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it>
Subject: More about the Technician Career

A big "Thank You" to anyone who wrote on the TML about the Technician
Career. I'm making some minor editing and I'll put the result on my www
page after the revisions.

BTW, if any of you would care to send some more idea for tools, please
do so.

And now some comments/answers to the various points people debated after
the original message.

Clark Crawford and others discussed the possibility of introducing some
mechanics about Certification/Exam, Professional Orders and so on.

Personally I'd prefer not to define any mechanics for it. Consider that
in T4 (and the same holds for the older editions, IIRC), you are
considered a certified doctor when you reach Medical-3. The same would
do for any technical branch, I think. I understand that the career
doesn't offer high benefits like TAS or a ship.
Should we add TAS/Ship to any career in the name of play balance? I
don't think so. Army offers very little in material benefits, for
example.

Steve Daniels suggested both a new name for the career and a rank
structure for it.
Believe it or not, I had already considered both ideas and decided to
discard them. I ruminated on alternate names (Artificer, Architect,
Gearhead, Builder, Engineer) and then, having looked at Scholar, Artist,
Merchant, Noble and Agent decided that Technician would do just nicely.

About the rank: I accept the rank structure for the official careers,
even when they don't make a lot of sense to me (why should Merchants
have ranks?) but I'd prefer to restrict them to military or tightly
organized structures. The proposed career try to covers a lot of
different professions. "Level Names" or ranks don't seem right to me.




__  Paolo Marino  __          |Inrete Games Page: www.inrete.it/games/gms.html
 mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred) | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:15:39 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

I've been thinking about Meson Guns, deep meson sites and the "flavour" 
I want in my Traveller Universe.  I'm still thinking about options:

(1) mesons are travelling close to the speed of light and some (a half, 
a quarter?) will decay by the time the mesons reach their target.  
Fired a split second behind the mesons is a less powerful electroweak 
wave (as described in the Unified Hand Wave Theory) that catches up 
with the mesons as they reach the target.  The electroweak wave 
encourages the mesons to decay almost immediately ... mostly inside the 
ship if the targetting worked correctly.

(2) Meson screens interfere with the electroweak wave, preventing the 
"premature" deacy so that the mesons carry on through the target with 
no damage.  The trick is to get your screens to be active for the right 
period of time (as these things would need too much power to run 
continuously) and in the right region of the ship, which allows you to 
have a chance of meson guns penetrating screens.

(3) deep meson guns could have the electroweak projector coming from a 
different site (or several sites) and can be much more powerful - say 
10x the size of the meson gun itself.  Because the electroweak wave is 
so much stronger you can:
(a) have mesons of higher energy (higher speed) so that decay losses 
before the target are much lower (making tracking back to the meson gun 
site much harder)
(b) much more likely to pentrate meson screens 

(4) some of us like the old Imperium board game, and think that 
planetary defense in Traveller should be more like that ... just big 
spinal mounts that can be located by the enemy and destroyed, albeit at 
potentially huge losses to your ships if you do not have big screens! 

(5) During the 5th Frontier War, how dificult would it have been to 
find out where the Imeperial meson sites are (c.f. modern day nuclear 
missile sites).  You can talk to construction workers, off-duty 
personnel, caterers, etc (carousing skill), find no-fly zones from 
commercial air traffic ("hmm, is that an open cast copper mine they 
won't let us fly over?  I'll bet it is for a meson site").  During the 
peace before a big war, meson sites would be compromised and of 
relatively easy to destroy (they can't dodge).

For worlds that are on military alert and deperately trying to keep to 
enemy scouts (say, in a pocket Empires / Imperial Squadrons campaign), 
the location of the meson sites will not be well known.  Similarly, if 
you have only just contacted a world you will not know of any meson 
sites - this would surely have been the case for Sabquimys (sp?) and 
the poor lone scout vessel.


Simon
PS For those contemplating using Greg Porter's Slag! system for space 
combat, meson guns and meson screens can be relatively easily added:

MG = Meson Gun: Each hit does 2 points less damage than a equivalent PA 
but is not reduced by the targets Damage Modifier, armour or Force 
Screens.  Initial hit location is always determined randomly** and 
works its way through the ship the same way a PA hit would (so that a 
hit could end up doing less damage than a PA that works its way 
inwards).  Armour is a valid hit location, but is not destroyed by the 
meson hit.  Aux power units increase the rating in the normal manner 
for spinal mounts.

MS = Meson Screens: Add (or subtract for shots from the rear) Size to 
the initial hit location.  Each extra functioning MS box adds (or 
subtracts) 1 more from the hit location.

** random hit loaction: use a dice of the appropriate size (d20 for a 
20 system ship) or use a diceless equivalent (example for 15-system 
ship): firing player writes down a number 1-15, the target player 
states a number 1-15.  The firing players number is revealed and the 
two are added.  If the total is over 15, subtract 15 to find the 
initial location.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:35:29 -0800
From: Goran Sjoberg <NGC1201@communique.se>
Subject: Re: Drone fighters

At 12:31 1998-02-20, Ian or Katts wrote:

>The problem with fighters isnt that they blow up with depressing
>regularity. The problem is that they do not have the length or volume to
>mount big enough weapons to hurt most warships (range is a functon of
>length for meson guns and particle accelerators).

>Therefore, they tend to be relegated to police and customs work (which they
>do well IMO).

>Taking out the pilot also saves mostly volume - pilots and their
>crestations dont weigh much, and with non-jump ships it is mass not volume
>that is your main limit.

Well, i believe there is a solution for everything and if normal methods
aint enough then lets try an unconventional approach.

Think of this scenario:

20 drone fighters close in on a destroyer of a cruiser with high speed and
agility. Because of the no-crew option it can have whatever G possible to
its design. They are equipped with masking tech and slim in design to make
them hard to pick with guns. They have missile-jamming technology and
decoys to elude missile, its speed eludes the most of the guns. While the
most of em wastes the turrets and bays with missiles and guns, a second
wave with belly mounted mines approach. They sweep down and drop the
magnetic mines in strategic positions so that when they are detonated, they
waste or badly cripple the cap ship. This would be possible when there's no
protecting screens or shields on them. They may loose up to 20% in drones
but killed of a rather large opponent.

There is no thing as impregnable armour.

Goran

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:00:49 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: The Voyage

Are you in the mood for a good Traveller-like read?

Well...I've got one for you.  I'm about one third the way through 
this book, and it's about the most Traveller sci-fi book I've read in 
a long time.

Which book?

The Voyage, by David Drake, pub. '94.

What's the story like?

Well, there's this noblewoman, and she's trying to regain some power 
within her House.  

So, she thinks she can do this by locating this high tech device that 
is rumored to exist on a planet on the edge of known space and bring 
the device back to her House.  She's jutting for political leverage 
as the Noble House in question is an interstellar trading firm (hmmm, 
Traveller doesn't have many of those, does it?) and the device is 
supposed to be a matter transporter (which is extremely high tech in 
both the book's and Traveller's universe).

How's she going to get this thing?  

Well, she builds a ship, of course.  Then she sends out invitations 
to known mercenaries from the sector.  She gathers them all together, 
and off they go, in search of this device.

Now....that doesn't sound like an M0 adventure module, now does it?

You've got a noblewoman leading the way...army/marine characters 
rolled up for the muscle...planets to go to that nobody knows much 
about...and you're in search of high technology.

I'm playing my campaign in the 1100's era, so I don't view it as a M0 
adventure.  I see it more as something that would take place in the 
Spinward Marches--as the ship head out for non-Imperial space in the 
adjacent Foreven or Far Frontiers sectors.

If that's not enough Traveller correlation for you, take a look at 
this, from page 16.

++++++++++++++++++++++

He looked sharply at Ned.  "I gather from the curriculum in your ID 
you know something about ships yourself?"

Ned shrugged.  "I've had a course in basic navigation, " he agreed.  
"In a pinch, I'd be better than punching in coordinates blind, I 
suppose.  And fusion bottles are pretty much the same, tanks or 
spaceships."

++++++++++++++++++++++++

This could be in a book (like it is), or it could be an excerpt from 
a Traveller role-play session.  The GM is running the NPC, and he's 
asking the player's character, Ned, what his skills are.

It sounds like, to me, that Ned has got Navigation-0.  Since Nav is 
not a default skill, the GM has allowed the player to use some bit of 
knowledge the character has picked up--the Navigation class--as a 
basis for using Nav at 0 level.

Ned sounds competent at engineering.  I'd give him Engineering-2.

And...was that a Universal ID they were talking about?

Check this out, from page 18.

+++++++++++++++++++

The adjutant paused at the base of the boarding bridge and looked out 
across the dockyard.  A mobile crane squealed as its boom lowered a 
drive motor into place.  A dirigible carried a slingload of hull 
plates slowly across the sky to a freighter being constructed at the 
opposite end of the complex.  The thrum of nacell-mounted props 
provided a bass line to the yard's higher pitched activities.

+++++++++++++++++++

So, what have we got here?

It's definitely a Class A or B starport.  From what I've read, I'd 
say it's a Class A.  The ship building facilities seem to be pretty 
well equipped.

But a dirigible?

Yep.  Just like in Traveller, you'll have a low tech planet with 
higher tech starport.  There's always an integration of technology 
when you have a situation like this--at least that's how I play it in 
my games.  

On Pysadi, for instance, in the Aramis subsector of the Spinward 
Marches, you've got a Class C starport on a TL 4 world.  Class C 
starports are minimum TL 8 (see your World Builder's Handbook), yet 
the infrastructure of the planet is TL 4.

When my players landed there, I noted how this Class C starport was 
run.  They could have some minor damage to the ship repaired, and 
these large, mobile, self contained (definitely from 
off-planet) repair facilities were driven up beside the ship.  
Workers got out of the trucks and repaired the ship.  

My players noted how everything high-tech in the star port was 
accomplished with some sort of mobile, self contained unit that was 
probably imported from off world--it's like a high tech facility here 
on Earth located in a poor, third world country.  Everything has to 
be shipped in.

But, my players really got a surprise when they went to see about 
obtaining a cargo for their next jump.  The Pysadians have a big 
chalk board!  And, they keep track of cargoes with a pencil and 
index-card system!

The TL 4 of the planet was showing through, and it's the same in this 
book.  There's this high class starport, yet dirigibles are being 
used to ferry bulk parts around--no grav units here.

The planet's infrastructure just doesn't support it.

What else is Traveller about the book?

Answer:  many things.  The technology in this universe is similar to 
that in Traveller.  It's not exact, but close enough--so close you 
can take most instances from the book and use them directly in your 
Traveller campaign, whether you're running M0 or M1100.

The starport mentioned above is in Landfall City on the planet 
Telaria.  That sounds like Startown or Pysadian Downport, doesn't it?

And, the records they use to track their course to this planet on the 
frontier--it's called pilotry data.  Hmmm, very similar to Library 
data, right?

And, you can see them talk about the character's skills, if you look 
between the lines.  This, from page 19.

+++++++++++++++++++

"Oh, she's got guts, all right," Tadziki said.  "Brains, too.  
Lissea's foster father had her trained as an electronics engineer, 
and she's a good one.  I doubt there was ever anything Lissea really 
cared about besides booting her uncle out of the presidency, but 
she's an asset to the expedition as an engineer, believe me."

++++++++++++++++++

Competent professional in electronics?  Yep, I'd say Electronics-3.  
And that guy--Tadziki.  Isn't that a Vilani name?

Lissea's definitely Solomani, and she's definitely a noble, playing 
the political game within her own House.

This is so similiar to my own game.  I've got a Noble, who owns the 
ship, who has had a lot of trouble with his House.  The problem is 
that it is decimated by two rival Houses that got together on his 
homeworld and ganged up on him.  So, now, he's leading a small 
merchant vessel around, vying for time while he tries to come up with 
a plan to put his House back together.

In this book, we've got a noblewoman, with a mercenary crew, jumping 
from planet to planet, in search of this bit of high technology.  
And, if she brings it back, she'll be in a position of power within 
her own house.

This book is set up like a Traveller adventure.  There's plenty of 
action (at least in the one third I've read), and it is so much like 
Traveller, I forget sometimes that it doesn't have Traveller on the 
cover.

It's definitley not an earth-shaking book--one that will make you 
contemplate the whys and why-fors of the universe, but if you are in 
the mood for a good Traveller read, it will certainly hit the spot.

For that reason, I'm recommending it to the list.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:49:17 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: More about the Technician Career

- -----Original Message-----
From: Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Saturday, February 21, 1998 11:00 AM
Subject: More about the Technician Career
<Snipped>

>Personally I'd prefer not to define any mechanics for it. Consider that
>in T4 (and the same holds for the older editions, IIRC), you are
>considered a certified doctor when you reach Medical-3. The same would
>do for any technical branch, I think. I understand that the career
>doesn't offer high benefits like TAS or a ship.
>Should we add TAS/Ship to any career in the name of play balance? I
>don't think so. Army offers very little in material benefits, for
>example.


Paolo,

I just wanted to drop a note about your new career, unfortunately I haven't
taken the time to study it in detail, at a breif overview it looked very
well done. In the same vein if I am rehashing old ground then please ignore
these idle ramblings.

First let me say that I agree with the above paragraph whole heartedly. In
fact I have found that the proliferation of ships as a mustering out benefit
to be a problem, and have restricted them among my own groups, going back to
the early CT days. I've had too many multiple ship groups splinter. At any
rate this is not really a career area where a ship is an appropriate reward,
most in this profession will either travel under a company or corperate
reason, and be given passage as the occation warrents, or be working passage
off.

On the subject of ranks, I would prefer to see you keep them non-official,
or similar to the doctor skill, as you imply, a certain level of skill
confers First class or Master's status. The way I am currently picturing it
a Task will be appropriate for a ranking within a society or union but as a
seperate roll playing aspect AFTER the chargen.

In other word a technician lands on a planet and looks for work, he/she is
told that he/she must belong to this union or this guild or whatever. At
that time the character rolls a task against his/her skill level to see
where IN THAT PLANET'S EXPERTISE  he/she falls. In some cases this will
confer a "rank".

Likewise if an engineer applies to the Imperial Society of Mechanical
Engineers (for example) and passes the appropriate tests (tasks) they can
add the title "Professional Engineer (PE)" to their name and resume. This is
simulair to how this happens today.

Just some thought. At any rate a very nicely done peice of work that will be
added to my books. Thank you.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:20:57 -0600
From: "Reed DE (David)  at MSXSSC" <DR200282@MSXSSC.shell.com>
Subject: RE: ideas  [Hauntings, magic, and psionics]

Andrew:

> >>1) The "Phantom of the Opera" as a Traveller scenario too
> >This has possibilities, especially if the Phantom is a long stranded
> >Imperial scout using the remnants of his high tech equipment to haunt the
> >Opera House.. hmmm.. I like this one.

Hauntings don't strike me as a Traveller staple, but they should be.  This
is the subject of Terrorspace (hopefully to be an RPGA event at DragonCon
this year; we had to cancel at GenCon last year *pout*).  More on this
below...

> Think of starship crews, they spend about half their lives in Jumpspace
> (a very weird place); they must be some of the most superstitious people
> around. So just what myths and legends do spacers have? What monsters are
> rumoured to inhabit Jumpspace?

Very superstitious.  Everyone has their "bizarre" customs.  One example is
the Vilani practice of dimming the ship's lights prior to jump (they may
call it tradition from the days of yore when they had to so in order to have
enough power to jump, but we know the truth - calling a superstition
anything else doesn't change it's nature, regardless of whether it had its
basis in fact: there were darn good reasons not to let women sail the seas,
but that didn't change the fact that it developed into a superstition).

> >>iv) Traveller as a generic game system (a "magic" system for Traveller)
> >No.  Not.  The only way I would accept this is a world where the local
> >wizards are psionicists.
> This was just my idle wonderings if the Traveller game mechanics could be
> adapted to other genres. I think it could (well I think it would be
> interesting to try).

You wouldn't have to change much... rename the psionic powers, add some new
ones, and some special effects to existing powers, and voila!  You have
magic.  One thing to make it more palatable to fantasy players might be to
require meditation to regain "power points" instead of allowing them to
"magically" regenerate through the psionist's own innate ability to draw
power from some unnamed source.  (I do this already for dedicated psionists;
the reluctant psionists - those that aren't sure if they are or not, heh! -
don't know where they get their power, or even if they have any available at
any given time.)

CANON CHECK
I've always believed that canon stated that a PC's Psi score could NEVER
rise after age 18, however there are bonuses to Psi to be found in the
Psionist profession!  Does this indicate that Psi can rise through
development?  Or that the game mechanics needed to find a way for a player
to sacrifice other things in exchange for a high Psi score?  I've been
meaning to ask Ken... but I don't want to disturb his work on Dark
Conspiracy 2ed.  Anybody know?


Terrorspace
[025-051iii]  The central villain of Terrorspace is the Vilani pirate Tyme
(of the M:0 era) who haunts the Zhunalines superliner ISS Diapason after his
abortive attempt to capture her (the last in n-space anyway), until she
leaves j-space, but sightings of Tyme aboard other ships in j-space continue
to this day.

As the story begins, the young Duchess Aan Nina Karrin is taking the first
'Imperial Cruise' in years, sponsored by her favorite (aging) uncle, Cleon I
in the hopes that the taste of "adventure" will inhibit her wild tendencies
(she is an orphan and a degreed psionicologist, potentially embarrassing to
the dynasty) thus making her easier to marry off - at which point she
becomes someone else's problem.  It is the PCs' responsibility to 'safely'
expose her to the perils of "adventure" as opposed to the benefits and
security of the life of a respectable member of the Imperial family.
Diapason is taken, per Tyme's style, through a combination of sabotage and
boarding - possible only through incompetence and distrust between the crew
of Diapason and the arrogant Marine security team commander.  The ship's
maneuver drives are disabled and the bridge taken/destroyed.  After Tyme's
corvette closes with the superliner and boarding begins, the chief engineer
engages the jump drive just as Tyme begins to cross the boarding tube to
Diapason to join his boarding party.  [And the adventure begins...]  Caught
in the fringe of the "jump bubble," Tyme's physical being is rent asunder.
He is now neither an n-space being nor a j-space being - there is no theory
to explain his being at all.  Only the sheer will to live of an exceptional
man holds his existence together... and all he can remember is the woman he
sought to hold for ransom.

- ---
David "Are my posts ever going to get to the list?" Reed
dreed@shellus.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #203
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 204



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Discarding Sabot Rounds
Re: ideas
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit
Re: World generation Modifications
RE: ideas  [Hauntings, magic, and psionics]
Re: ideas
Re: The vote is cast: for Metator
Re: STARPORTS
Re: new question of the week
Re: Future feel was Re: Some stuff about my posts:
More Tube Steak
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: T4.1 being published
Re: Fighters?
Re: Slings & Jerry Lewis?
Re: Next Software Project
Re: Slings & Jerry Lewis?
Re: STARPORTS
Re: Starports
re: Meson decay
Tethers and Satellite article in New Scientist

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:37:12 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Discarding Sabot Rounds

At 03:51 pm 2/20/98 +0800, you wrote:
>I have a question which arose in my game the other day.  I'm subjecting my
>players to 'Chamax Plague' using MT rules and they were busily gunning down
>any Chamaxi that moved when one of them pointed out that the Discarding
>Sabot rounds he was using from his Advanced Combat Rifle had a danger space
>(1.5 m according to the Players Manual).  I realised I didn't actually know
>what a DS round was so I thought I'd ask the knowledgible members of the
>list! :)
>
>So:
>
>a) What is a DS round?  It has higher penetration than normal rounds but why?

	Discarding Sabot. The actual round is much smaller than the barrel diameter, so spacers are placed around it while in the cartridge. The spacers keep the round moving straight down the barrel, and then fall off as soon as it leaves the muzzle. The result is you get a round with very high velocity and very small cross-section. The energy is therefore concentrated onto a smaller area at impact.

>b) Should a DS round have a danger space  and if so why?

	No.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:43:56 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: ideas

At 01:08 am 2/21/98 +1300, you wrote:
>iv) Traveller as a generic game system (a "magic" system for Traveller)


	I actually started a while back on writing a task-based magic system
based on the book "Fantasy Wargaming"--kind of a magic gearhead's FF&S (Fire,
Familiars and Spirits) ...


- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:02:08 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

At 05:11 PM 2/20/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-02-18 13:55:12 EST, you write:
>
><< Heres an idea thats been flying around in my head for some time now. I
> felt that the world generation system, 
>
> Milieu World Generation Modification Table, V. 0.1
> 
> Any suggestions, comments

>BASES
>	Code		Description

>	M	Military Base (Army).

Question:  Won't most worlds have their own planetary defense force?  Or is
this meant to indicate a large depot like base for pre-positioned material?


>	Roll for Population Multiplier, Planetoid Belts, and Gas Giants
>independently. Record as single digits in the order PBG.

I'd prefer to stay with 2D6-2 for Population Multiplier

>ALLEGIANCE
>	Worlds generated here have an allegiance of Im (Imperial). On the
>fringes of the empire, worlds may be Cs (Client-State) or Na (Non-Aligned). 

Considering the inclusion of all the Milieux, should the major alien codes
be included?  (So, As, Zc, etc.)

>MILIEUX
>Date 	Name	Max TL	St	N	S

>  300	Vargr Campaigns	13	

A change from the Aslan Border wars, I see.. I think this would make a more
free-booting setting than the Aslan, but my feelings on strict wartime play
are well known.
		
>  600	Civil War	14	

This era really excits me, not so much for the war itself, but for the
regency period following the war.  Lots of intrigue and backstabbing.		

>St is Starport modifer. N is naval base modifier.
>S is Scout base modifier.

These seem to be missing.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry   dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
|--------------------------------------|
| "Oscar Wilde only wishes he was this |
|  gay!"        -Crow T. Robot, MST3K  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:15:40 -0800
From: Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit

>Comments?

Most security systems IMTU use ultrasonic motion detectors, similar to a
bat's sonar. Another advantage for high-tech stealth suits would be a sonic
dampening module which listens for ultrasonic frequencies and transmits a
phase-inverted frequency. This could also be used with audible sounds; so
the wearer could talk into a throat mike and not be heard by someone
standing next to her.


This would be effective against motion detectors of the same tech level but
less so at higher tech levels, for the same reason as visual detection.
More advanced motion detectors could monitor background objects and detect
the sonic 'dead zone' created by the suit. More advanced suits could mimic
the effects of background objects, while more advanced detectors could use
encoded or directional pulses, and so on.

I suggest sonic dampening be introduced at TL 13 and only be effective
against sensors at the TL of manufacture or before.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:17:03 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> 
> At 05:11 PM 2/20/98 EST, you wrote:
> >In a message dated 98-02-18 13:55:12 EST, you write:
> >
> ><< Heres an idea thats been flying around in my head for some time now. I
> > felt that the world generation system,
> >
> > Milieu World Generation Modification Table, V. 0.1
> >
> > Any suggestions, comments
> 
> >BASES
> >       Code            Description
> 
> >       M       Military Base (Army).
> 
> Question:  Won't most worlds have their own planetary defense force?  Or is
> this meant to indicate a large depot like base for pre-positioned material?
> 
> >       Roll for Population Multiplier, Planetoid Belts, and Gas Giants
> >independently. Record as single digits in the order PBG.
> 
> I'd prefer to stay with 2D6-2 for Population Multiplier
> 
> >ALLEGIANCE
> >       Worlds generated here have an allegiance of Im (Imperial). On the
> >fringes of the empire, worlds may be Cs (Client-State) or Na (Non-Aligned).
> 
> Considering the inclusion of all the Milieux, should the major alien codes
> be included?  (So, As, Zc, etc.)
> 
> >MILIEUX
> >Date   Name    Max TL  St      N       S
> 
> >  300  Vargr Campaigns 13
> 
> A change from the Aslan Border wars, I see.. I think this would make a more
> free-booting setting than the Aslan, but my feelings on strict wartime play
> are well known.
> 
> >  600  Civil War       14
> 
> This era really excits me, not so much for the war itself, but for the
> regency period following the war.  Lots of intrigue and backstabbing.
> 
> >St is Starport modifer. N is naval base modifier.
> >S is Scout base modifier.
> 
> These seem to be missing.
> These are some good suggestions. The IA is all but invisible. If you
specified large installations, It would make the Imperial Army's
presence more obvious.

You might consider:

	A = Imperial Army Post
	M = Imperial Marine Base
	N = Imperial Naval Base
	S = Imperial Scout Station

- -Dan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:24:33 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: RE: ideas  [Hauntings, magic, and psionics]

At 11:20 AM 2/21/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Andrew:
>
>> >>1) The "Phantom of the Opera" as a Traveller scenario too
>> >This has possibilities, especially if the Phantom is a long stranded
>> >Imperial scout using the remnants of his high tech equipment to haunt the
>> >Opera House.. hmmm.. I like this one.
>
>Hauntings don't strike me as a Traveller staple, but they should be.  This
>is the subject of Terrorspace (hopefully to be an RPGA event at DragonCon
>this year; we had to cancel at GenCon last year *pout*).  More on this
>below...

Anyone ever read "Nightflyers" by George R.R. Martin?  Excellent story
about a mysterious frieghter.  I modified it for a M:0 game.  The
characters come across a 2I derelict drifting near a gas giant.  The ship
appears to be a luxury yacht, worth a fortune.  As the palyers explore,
they start seeing things, then the ship starts trying to kill them...

The story is that two powerful psionicists had died abord the ship, and
transferred their "souls" to a specialy prepared matrix to await rescue.
During the 1500 year wait, one had gone insane, and was psychotic, while
the other, weaker entity was trying to warn the players off.  Made for some
spooky role play, with the ship lit by dim lighting and creaking
mysteriously...

>You wouldn't have to change much... rename the psionic powers, add some new
>ones, and some special effects to existing powers, and voila!  You have
>magic.  One thing to make it more palatable to fantasy players might be to
>require meditation to regain "power points" instead of allowing them to
>"magically" regenerate through the psionist's own innate ability to draw
>power from some unnamed source.  (I do this already for dedicated psionists;
>the reluctant psionists - those that aren't sure if they are or not, heh! -
>don't know where they get their power, or even if they have any available at
>any given time.)

The episode of B5 with the technomages has given me several ideas for
"magical" encounters in Traveller.  Psionocists with high (Ancient?) tech
aides could make Clarke's law a daily reality.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:22:57 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: ideas

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

>Actually I was thinking of replicating their culture. However in doing
>that I came up with another idea: just how superstitious are the citizens
>of the 3rd Imp? (don't ask me how I made that connection)
>
>Think of starship crews, they spend about half their lives in Jumpspace
>(a very weird place); they must be some of the most superstitious people
>around. So just what myths and legends do spacers have? What monsters are
>rumoured to inhabit Jumpspace?

I'm actually gathering material for a short compendium of Sayat
"technositition" which ought to be borrowable for the 3I proper as well.
Besides feeling there's a "special connection" between nuclear fusion and
pregnancy, and feeling it prudent to slaughter livestock before their jump
drives, and being big believers in hanging "lucky charms" from their
rear-view mirrors, they're going to have a lot of other so-called
superstitions, too, before I'm done.

Traveller's got heaps of gee-whiz technological/scientific handw^H^H^H
groundwork, and plenty of religious fervor in the background.  But there's
no mention of that middle ground of pragmatically-oriented semirational
behaviour and belief which doesn't fit into an organized system of faith or
body of formal doctrine.

How about "101 Superstitions", folks?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:23:02 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: The vote is cast: for Metator

Rob Prior wrote:

>Wish me luck and the support of the diety of your choice as I embark on
>the Great Metator Recoding.

And there was much rejoicing.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 15:55:31 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: STARPORTS

>Also of use for running ports:
>        JTAS #19, "Skyport Authority" by John M. Ford: 
>        describes starport staff as a career.
>
>        JTAS #22, "From Port To Jump-point" by Leroy Guatney:
>        ships in port, in-system encounters, etc.
>
>        Traveller's Digest #14, "Scout Brew" by Chester Cox and Nancy
>        Parker: what happens when you visit a bar generated above. ;-)

In the "also of use" for running ports category, there's the article "R&R" in
the "Best of the Journal" volume 2.  I'm not sure what issue it appeared in
originally though.  It details not the Starport itself, but instead the
"startown" around it, and the various trouble that could find PCs there.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:02:37 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: new question of the week

Thanks for signing me up, although if I don't get a message in a day or two
from the majordomo, I won't fret too much.  I'll be jumping the AOL ship and
hitting a local ISP soon (as in within the next week) so I'll just have to
unsubscribe and resubscribe! :^)

Thanks though

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:12:57 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Future feel was Re: Some stuff about my posts:

>Ooops forgot again to mention that I REALLY liked your stuff.
>Especially as you have written it without ref notes etc inside the text.
>Great to prop up in Quark and give the players as handout. Too much talk of
>penetration values, jumpdrive tech and too little about stuff like "What
>colours to choose when buying this years Rashush", "Are Vargr really better
>as cosmetists than humans", "How old can you be and still wear a Starman
>Jones T-shirt in public" etc. Culture.

Thanks, much appreciated.  Some of my favorite gaming supplements were the
"Uncle Al's" series of catalogs for Car Wars (where every item had just a
little personality, and there were free gifts if you ordered now), and the
Aurora's Whole Realms catalog (for AD&D), which a lot of thought went into
writing...

I hope a little of that shows through at the very least...

My "background flavor" posts will be slowing over the next two weeks, as I'm
pushing ahead full steam on dull background info for the campaign I'm running,
and at some point before the end of the month, I will be switching to a
different service provider.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:38:47 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: More Tube Steak

Kenji said:

>Ah!  I was thinking that the Tube Steak (and Tube Steak Lite) might well
>turn out to be a product of Sayat (or Pentapod, in 2300 terms)
>bioengineering.  Advancing ever forward the frontiers of intercultural
>interstellar misunderstanding!

Food Extruders is more fast food. The franchisee get this big honking machine
that extrudes the food like toothpaste out of a tube (or playdoh out of a fun
factory. Lotsa different stuff. Hot dog, bun, and condiments, all at once.
hero/po-boy/hoagie/whathaveyou, bread, meat, tomatolets, lettuceoid, sauce,
all at once. Hardboiled eggs, yellow centers, white outsides -- the franchisee
(or his surly, pimply-faced hirlings) operate a guilotine-like device, and cut
off the alleged food when the customer asks (Hence the other trademarked motto
of FE(tm): "Say When!"). It was one of those running gags we incorporated into
the background. I thought it was a joke until I say the Nova titled "The
Making of a Snack Food" and saw some British snack food company _extruding_
stuff a mile a minute. Bread tube with a meat filling, baking as it came out
of the machine, and a blade cutting it into snack-sized chunks.

Remind me sometime to tell you (and your Sayat friends) about the Zhodani
Secret Gelding Grip(tm)...you might find it entertaining. 

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:05:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, Daniel Ray Lane wrote:

[snip discussion of meson decay, countertargetting]

> IMO, meson countertargetting might not
> be easy, but it would be possible.  So would counterargetting vs.
> grav focues lasers.

In CT and Mayday that had a "laser return fire phase".  Fire in this phase
was subject to a penalty.  IIRC, it was only possible by ships which had
just been fired upon, against the ships which had just fired at them.  If
not, well, that's how I always took it.  After all, laser fire is a dead
giveaway.  :)


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:26:36 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: T4.1 being published

	My guess would be for this coming GENCON, maybe a little earlier

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:54:57 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Fighters?

> From: Goran Sjoberg <NGC1201@communique.se>
> >What about predictability?  If I do X then the Battle Drone does Y.
> It has sensors that analyze the alien craft and depending on its
> maneuverability it chooses its most efficient response.

So would it the same thing everytime?  Say I have a ship with a agility of
6 & I act as if I have an agility of 1, would I be able to surprize it when
I turn & burn at an agility of 6?

> Of course all of this takes a microsecond in time.

A llloooooooonnnnnnggggggg time in computer terms.

> >What about say the computer gets scrambled & attacks a civilian target?
> Thats why we have back-ups. Perhaps it sends an ID-marker signal to the
> opposing craft and with no/wrong response signal it attacks. 

Well even then a hacker could take control over the drones.
 
> Or maybe an advanced image recognition system. We know all the targets
from
> sensor data, feed it into the drones and theres little chance of mistakes
> unless another identical ship bounces into the game. 

OK, so say it will not attack a Type A Free Trader.  So I could attack &
destroy it with a Type A Free Trader.

> Then i guess the drone chooses the most likely target. Even two identical
> ships must differ somewhat.

Yes, but all ships will go from da-da to da-da.

> As for damage on the computer: wrap it into hard armour and put it safely
> in the middle of the ship. Its very similar to a black box in planes,
only
> this is an an active one.

This is a great idea, but one problem.  How would you maintain this
computer?

> Goran

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this puppy.
We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:08:32 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Slings & Jerry Lewis?

> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> >Not really, I just hate the French for some reason I shall not go into
> >here, but it involves being spit on while in Paris in full USMC Uniform
&
> >being told that the Nazis had the right idea to get rid of all the
jews..
> :-\
> Okay, but when you have that big nuclear party in Paris try to keep the
> noise (and mess) down ;-)
> Dom

Fine, if that the way you feel about it, I will have a nuclear party in
Paris.

Btw, IMTU the !st IW starts when a Val. Scout Ship with a 150 MT warhead
destroys Paris.  Anyone have anything to relate like this?

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this puppy.
We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 98 22:51:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Re: Next Software Project

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:53:07 Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Wrote...
> I'm trying to decide on my next programming project.  Please cast
> your votes for:
>
> 1) QSDS (Mac/PC) - as it says
> 4) FFS2 (both Mac/PC a way away) - as it says
    Might I suggest that these are more properly put together?  With QSDS being
something of a subset of FF&S2.  Thus people could simply design a ship with
QSDS and then use FF&S2 to create the detailed portion to be "pluged into" the
QSDS design as needed/desired?

> 2) Metator (Mac, PC a long way away) - system detailing and mapping
> 3) Cartos (Mac, PC a way away) - sector/empire mapping and generation
    As someone who frequently runs campaigns using Traveller but in areas
outside of the known "Charted Space" I'd prefer Cartos since Metator works as
is after a fashion.  If you could fix the bugs in Metator to allow me to print
everything into the appropriate types of files, and make the data freely
exchangable between Cartos and Metator that would be Great!
    Are you going to expand Metator to handle Pocket Empires econ extensions
and other stuff?  If so can you have Cartos handle them and allow the
manipulation of them too?

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 23:03:07 +0000
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Slings & Jerry Lewis?

At 13:08 21/02/98 -0700, Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist wrote:

>Btw, IMTU the !st IW starts when a Val. Scout Ship with a 150 MT warhead
>destroys Paris.  Anyone have anything to relate like this?
>

Would somebody explain why this would cause the 1st IW to start ? 

:-)



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:17:04 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: STARPORTS

1)  Player appeal.  Rather than dry facts, there needs to be material that
excites the player.  The starport illustrations are probably a good example.
While the Champa layout in JTAS #7 was interesting enough, those in White
Dwarf #43 were exciting, although not official.  (I hope Rob does the
illustrations because he has the attention to detail that can capture this.)

2)  Useful material. Detailed administrative hierachies, starport
infrastructure, and the like are amusing.  But these can probably be replaced
with material of more use to players and referees.  Startown Liberty is an
example of something that is very useful.  I probably got more use out of
those expanded encounter tables than any other publication related to
starports.

  To move in the direction of specifics, I had the following in mind:

1)  Discussion - Details of each port class.  Rescue facilities/shelters.  Who
builds/maintains the ports.  Tech variations.  Costs.  Capacities. 
Bases/outposts. Planetary interdiction.

2)  Port Authority - Inbound/outbound procedures.  Ship encounters and ships
in port. Communication.  Security.  Regulations.  Customs and smuggling.
Violation resolution. Alien and passenger services.

3)  Vehicles - Space tug, rescue vessel, customs/patrol craft, small orbital
dock, ship tender, interdiction satellite.  (A shuttle and interplanetary
vehicles were included in Imperial Encyclopedia.)

4)  Startown - Use in adventures.  Extrality.  R&R.  Alien quarter.  And most
especially the expanded encounter tables from Startown Liberty.  These should
compliment those in Cities.

5)  Character generation - Primarily, this includes an MT revision of the SPA
generator in JTAS #19.  But it can also include the Repo (ship repossessor;
see JTAS #16) and others.

6)  Adventures.
The above encompasses some of the things you mentioned, but isn't intended as
a formalized outline.  Following the SOpM format, a different arrangement will
be needed.

  Just as something for thought, the formal title for the book might be Port
Authority Handbook, after Andy Keith's column in Far Traveller.  Starports is
certainly a good enough working title for now.                  MIKE MIKESH
 ------------
Message 4     M.MIKESH

Bryan -
That's a VERY good question, "how much ship traffic does a given world or
system generate."  There may be some disagreement between Joe and Marc about
this.  One says there's a lot of interstellar traffic.  The other says there's
very little compared to planetside commerce.  (Off hand, I don't remember
which said which, other than the fact I was getting two different messages.)
But its possible they were saying the same thing, but from two different
perspectives.

Bryan, I think it will be very useful to nail down how much tonnage really is
flying around the Imperium.  Get Marc and Joe to agree, then it will be easy
to figure out how much of that a given world sees.

Did I say easy?  It'd probably require a computer model of the sector
incorporating the trade and commerce rules.  Given the UWPs and trading
vessels within the sector, and balancing the traffic for greatest economic
advantage, you'll have the answer.  Perhaps by studying the worlds of the
inner subsectors, you can arrive at a way of estimating for game purposes
without requiring the players to go to the same extents.

OR you can work up a commercial atlas of the Spinward Marches.  No guesswork;
here are the numbers.  But this is drifting off Starports.

About beanstalks, its a shame, but they probably don't have a place in
Traveller. Fusion plants make energy too readily available.  Beanstalks,
rotors, and related devices just don't offer a savings worth considering.

This isn't true in 2300AD, though.  There are two beanstalks in that universe,
and for good reason.  I'll bet Challenge would welcome an article on further
details about beanstalks and alternatives engineers of 2300AD may be
considering.


(c) Posters and GEnie.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:21:26 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Starports

	Also Flaming Eye (orbital complex).
	Port Authority articles by the Keith Brothers.
	Proposed DGP products.
	GEnie topic areas (which regretfully can't go on the CD at this time I
expect).

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:14:43 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Meson decay

>So would counterargetting vs.
>grav focues lasers.
Countertargeting vs any kind of laser is pretty easy (since even the best
laser beam has sidelobes) - this is in the most recent DSR (ships firing
weapons count as "going active".) I'm not sure why grav focus would make it
easier/harder, though.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 02:05:45 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Tethers and Satellite article in New Scientist

Naturally, this article is (c) New Scientist and is here for your personal
research and edification.

21 Feb 98 Issue:

Reeling in satellites - A return ticket for satellites that have reached
the end of the line

A CHEAP way of bringing failed satellites down to Earth is being developed
by an Americancompany. The company,Tethers Unlimited, which is based in
Clinton, Washington, has booked a launch on a Russian rocket in late 1998
or early 1999 to test its special tether.

In theory, satellites should be able to generate electricity from a long
tether. But when NASA launched a satellite to test the idea in 1996, the
tether was severed after just six hours, probably by a small piece of space
junk. The new tether has a web-like structure to enable it to withstand
damage from space junk and the company plans to use it to brake an ailing
satellite, causing it to lose height and fall to Earth.

Over the next few years, hundreds of satellites will be injected into
low-Earth orbit for mobile phone communications. "Iridium, one of the
consortia involved, has already had two failures in the 33 satellites it
has launched," says Robert Forward of Tethers Unlimited. "There is an
urgent need to remove failed satellites from orbit to make way for
replacements." Using a rocket to take a satellite out of orbit would mean
carrying extra fuel into space equivalent to between 5 and 15 per cent of
the satellite's mass. The fuel needed to launch this extra mass would add
several million dollars to the launch costs. The tether, which would be up
to 10 kilometres long, will generate electric currents of up to 1 amp as it
cuts through the Earth's magnetic field. It is the interaction between the
current in the tether and the Earth's magnetic field that would brake a
satellite. Forward says that a tether would only account for 2 per cent of
the satellite's mass and would be able to replace a rocket for about a
tenth the price.

The company's Terminator Tether is a  multiline cable with a ballast mass
of a few kilograms on one end. The tether would be unwound like a bobbin in
a cotton factory. It would be pulled taut by the differences in gravity at
different altitudes.

According to Forward, once a tether had been unwound it would take a
satellite out, of a 780-kilometre high orbit in less than a : year. It
would take a century for the satellite to come down naturally. The design
of the tether, patented by Forward's partner, Robert Hoyt, consists of
three parallel lines with crossed wires zig-zagging between. Unlike a
single strand, which is vulnerable to being severed by just one projectile,
this webbing can resist the bombardment of meteorites and space junk.
Tethers Unlimited, which has a $600 000 . contract from NASA to explore the
concept of a tether, has hired a Scottish knitwear firm Fleming's Textile
of Kilmarnock to develop the design. We won't have our testing done in time
for Iridium," says Forward. However, he says the company will be ready for
the next generation of low orbit satellites. Marcus Chown NQC

- ------

Possibilities to incorporate this into FFS2's addenda anyone?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #204
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 22 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 205



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller Rocks (nowhere near c :-)
Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Meson decay
Traveller Items for Sale (Long) #2
Wanted: Flaming Eye book
Please help, not Traveller related...
Re:The vote is cast: for Metat
Re: Slings & Jerry Lewis?
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #203
[CT] PBEM open.
Re: [T98#192] Starports
Re: STARPORTS
Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage
Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage
Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage
Re: Macroeconomics
Re: CD-ROM\TML posts
Re: Religion in America & Traveller too!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:34:49 -0500
From: Madeleine Oldham <madalien@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Rocks (nowhere near c :-)

Rob Prior wrote:
> 
> traveller@mpgn.com,Internet writes:
> >>Now I'll admit it sounds absurd but imagine rolling up a character that
> >>becomes as legendary as the Stones, or Pink Floyd, etc. We just had to
> >play
> >>them. Especially since we traded in two of the yachts for a lab ship
> >which
> >>is the space-going tour bus / chemical factory / casino. The Traveller
> >>equivalent of the Grateful Dead.
> 
> My second group of players decided to go the 'master criminal' route. They
> formed a rock band to tour the Spinward Marches, cleverly disguising their
> burglary gear as stage props. (We've just seen Thief. We were inspired.)
> Other then what was needed to run the "Crime of the Century Tour" (we were
> also into Supertramp) they donate the results to charity, on the
> assumption that when they were eventually caught there would be a
> groundswell of popular support.
> 
> Wild, crazy, and the most fun you can have in public. While the Band
> serenades the Marquis with "Crime of the Century", the Ramp Rats steal his
> jewels.

Reminds me of a game I was a player in many moons ago - We converted our
scout into a recording studio, made quite a bit of cash that way I seem
to recall.
Chris.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 21:48:55 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Character Generation and Social Levels

After having been very busy for the last 4 months, I've managed to
find the time to not only start reading TML again, but actually to 
work on Beginnings, my T4 character generation program. A new
version (0.96beta) will be up on my web page within the next 3 days,
and will be announced here when ready of course.

I believe I've finally quashed the tenacious little rank bug in the Navy
career; seems that it was recording the ranks correctly, I just wasn't 
telling the printer (or save file) to actually write the correct one. DOH!

In addition, a question for y'all: How high should one allow social 
standing to go in character generation? I recently had one character go
through the program and end up with a SOC of 18! Should the cut off
be at 15 (Duke), or something lower?

Feels great to be back, BTW! Can't wait to start arguing over the merits
of zero-g beds and interdimensional heat sinks again soon!  :-P


**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 21:55:46 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: Meson decay

Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
> 
> >So would counterargetting vs.
> >grav focues lasers.
> Countertargeting vs any kind of laser is pretty easy (since even the best
> laser beam has sidelobes) - this is in the most recent DSR (ships firing
> weapons count as "going active".) I'm not sure why grav focus would make it
> easier/harder, though.
> 
> Bruce


Grasers & Xrasers would have les pronounced sidelobes.  The 
grav soliton could key sensors that the ship was under attack.

- -Dan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 22:29:33 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Traveller Items for Sale (Long) #2

	The owner of the items is still overwhelmed with the warm response his
items have received and is greatly appreciative of the offers.

	As a reminder, the owner of the game items is reserving the right to deny
an offer for an item if he feels that the offer is not fair enough for that
item - This is not a standard auction where the items are definately sold
to the highest bidder.  The owner believes that his collection is worth
some number, and if the offers do not fit within his acceptable range, then
he will deny such an offer.  That is not to say that he will do so, just a
warning to all that just because you had placed a bid you are not
necessarily going to get the item(s).

	All cash offers that are accepted, will require to send a MONEY ORDER to
the amount listed in the bid, plus three dollars additional for priority
mail (Letter envelope) for those items that will fit into such a package. 
Those items that will not will be arranged separately with the owner of the
items.  And if there are any additional bids, please remember to put the
"Bid for Traveller Items" into the subject line of your messages.  Since I
am doing this service as a favor, I will like to sort the mail correctly
and not miss any bids.

	I believe that I have fixed the misbids that were misrepresented in the
original posting.  If I have missed any of the bids, I must apologize and
please let me know so that I may include it/them in the next posting.

Thanks,
Scott Spieker


Now that that is over with, here is the second bid list:

Understanding Traveller (2)

Book 1 (First Edition printing) (2.5)
Book 2 (Second Edition printing) (2.5)
Book 3 (First Edition printing) (2.5)

Book 4 Mercenary (2.5)
	Shawn: electric-stitch@w-link.net - $5.00

Book 5 High Guard (1.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $15
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $10.00 if it is the 2nd Edition
printing (cannot verify at the time of this posting)
	Shawn: electric-stitch@w-link.net - $5.00

Supplement 6 76 Patrons (2)

Supplement 8 Library Data A-M (2)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $8.00

Supplement 11 Library Data N-Z (2)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $10
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $10.00

Supplement 13 Veterans (1)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $5

Supplement 4 Citizens of the Imperium (2)


Adventure 6 Expedition to Zhodane (2.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $15
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $12.00
	David asman: D.Asman@wayne.edu - $10.00
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $8.00

Double Adventure 5 Chamax Plague/Horde (1.5)
	Michael Kent: mkent@atlantic.net - $15.00
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #11 (2)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $6.00
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #13 (1.25)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $6.00
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #14 (2.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $6.00
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #16 (1.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $6.00
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #19 (2)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Best of the Journal #1 (4)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $15.00
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $10
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Striker Boxed Set (First Printing with all errata and supplements - MINT
CONDITION) (1)
	Scott Spieker: scspieker@ncweb.com - $20.00
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $5


All Miniatures unpainted.  Original blisters have been opened to inspect
the figures upon original purchase, but sets are complete (even with
original packaging.)
Martian Metals 15mm miniatures (in original box)
	- Imperial Marines with FGMP-14 in various poses. (13 figures with
separate support weapons)
	Fred Kiesche: FKiesche@aol.com--home & KiescheF@cowen.com--work (willing
to bid premium for entire lot of minis)
	Danny Moody: DMoody@bridge.com - $30.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $20.00
	Andrew Akins: igor@ames.net & andya@cms-gt.com - $10.00

Martian Metals 15mm Miniatures (no box)
	- Basic adventurers pack (15 miniatures)
	Danny Moody: DMoody@bridge.com - $30.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $20.00
	Andrew Akins: igor@ames.net & andya@cms-gt.com - $10.00

Invasion Earth game (boxed - punched) (2.5)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $20.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $10.00
Fifth Frontier War game (boxed - punched) (2.5)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $30.00
	david asman: D.Asman@wayne.edu - $25.00
	Ewan Quibell: E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk - $25.00 (or trade for Azhanti
High Lightning)
	Juggernaut Press: pbm@gamesbymail.com - $17.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $10.00

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 22:35:44 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Wanted: Flaming Eye book

Hi again,
	I know some of you are getting pretty sick of seeing messages from me,
like this one.  But I have one last request for a while:

	I am looking to purchase (if anyone would like to sell it or trade for it)
the following book:
	DGP - The Flaming Eye campaign book.

	I am willing to pay a premium and/or trade items in my traveller
collection, or any of my other various hobbies for the book.  If you have
the item and are willing to part with it, please send a message to: Scott
Spieker scspieker@ncweb.com with a price or a list of items desired for an
exchange.

Thanks again,
Scott Spieker

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 01:08:01 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Please help, not Traveller related...

My mother is involved with a contest, and she has sent me out to look for one
of the answers.  The contest is a trip to England, and she needs some answers
for it...

If anyone could help with the following, I will be _eternally_ grateful, as
will my mom, or, in the spirit of the contest, my mum.

Okay, here goes:

The english call them brollies and gamps.
What is a busby?
If you were born within the sound of Bowbells you'd be a:?

The answers need to get here by Monday morning.  Anyone who knows the answers
please help.  I know that this is completely off topic, and I apologize
profusely, but frankly, I wasn't sure where else to find people who might
know.

Thanks alot...

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 98 06:58:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Re:The vote is cast: for Metat

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:42:04 Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca Wrote...
> Unless I hear otherwise, priority is:
>
> 1) expand UWP into Scouts-style system
> 2) detail worlds as per DGP's World Builders Handbook
> 3) print and export textual data
> 4) generate system-wide details (eg. naval squadrons)
> 5) create and print spiffy colour maps (last because it will be hardest
> to port to the PC)
    PLEASE! Put in the Pocket Empire Econ Extensions at the very least!  I
suspect I'm not the only GM who now relies HEAVILY on PE and automatically
having that data available from system generation would be Extremely Useful to
me and other GMs using Metator for developing our Campaigns. ;)

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 00:47:16 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Slings & Jerry Lewis?

> From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
> >Btw, IMTU the !st IW starts when a Val. Scout Ship with a 150 MT warhead
> >destroys Paris.  Anyone have anything to relate like this?
> Would somebody explain why this would cause the 1st IW to start ? 
> :-)
> Dom

Easy to do.  If they can nuke Paris, they can nuke London, England;
Phoenix, AZ, USA; Moscow, Russia; or Toronto, Canada just as easily.  Mosty
they did it as a warning shot.  "We can nuke any of your cities that we
want to any time we want to." type deal.

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this puppy.
We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:08:11
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #203

At
>From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: STARPORTS
>
>
>"Starport offices" and "Trade Stations" threads, Jan 1998, esp. Douglas
><douglas@teleport.com>: 13 Jan 1998 - "Re: Trade Stations and Red
>crew/Blue crew" [warehousing]
>

*sob* my chance for fame gone ... my original "Trade Stations and Red
Crew/Blue Crew" isnt mentioned.

I'd also have a look at the Amerigo Vespucci (?) class Frontier Trader -
the one with multiple sub-ships, with the concept being a ship able to drop
off a "portable starport" on a mostly-uncontacted world, which reduces the
time pressure on your trade and contact specialists - you can leave em in
orbit with a couple of grav cars, then check back in 2 months to pick them up.

>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:35:29 -0800
>From: Goran Sjoberg <NGC1201@communique.se>
>Subject: Re: Drone fighters
>
>At 12:31 1998-02-20, Ian or Katts wrote:
>

>Well, i believe there is a solution for everything and if normal methods
>aint enough then lets try an unconventional approach.

Sure. It's just that not all solutions are cost-effective.

>Think of this scenario:
>
>20 drone fighters close in on a destroyer of a cruiser with high speed and
>agility. Because of the no-crew option it can have whatever G possible to
>its design. They are equipped with masking tech and slim in design to make
>them hard to pick with guns. They have missile-jamming technology and
>decoys to elude missile, its speed eludes the most of the guns. While the
>most of em wastes the turrets and bays with missiles and guns, a second
>wave with belly mounted mines approach. They sweep down and drop the
>magnetic mines in strategic positions so that when they are detonated, they
>waste or badly cripple the cap ship. This would be possible when there's no
>protecting screens or shields on them. They may loose up to 20% in drones
>but killed of a rather large opponent.
>

Stealth technology isnt particularily effective in Traveller in a
deep-space context.

It is also difficult to jam missiles at 15 000 km, which is the usual range
of a military nuclear det laser missile.

Losing the g-limits on pilots is an advantage, however the thruster plates
you well need to pull these sorts of gees will cost a lot, making their
loss painful and expensive.

The mines you are talking about would be trivially easy to detect with
LIDAR or other sensors, and thus difficult to use effectivly.

>There is no thing as impregnable armour.

True, but there is armour impregnable to certain weapons. Lasers are the
most effective weapon for small craft at combat ranges (30 000km and up),
and lasers are limited in output by TL. It isnt particularily difficult to
build a warship that will take only surface damage against lasers.

It's an interesting concept. See if you can make it work using FFS2.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:45:51 +1030 (CST)
From: John Rowe <jtr@adelaide.dialix.com.au>
Subject: [CT] PBEM open.

G'day, 

I long for the days of Classic Traveller.

I would like to run a Classic Traveller PBEM.  Is anyone interested?

Reply to me direct, rather than the group.

BTW I am looking to buy material from Classic Traveller all the time.  If 
anyone is interested in selling what they have, please let me know.

Cheers

John Rowe
jtr@adelaide.dialix.oz.au

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:39:14 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [T98#192] Starports

It was probaly my post that he was thinking off.  I argued that ship 
construction capacity (based on pop) was total and that typical 
military budgets (based on the same pop) only gave a space navy that 
could use around 1/10th of the capacity in normal (peace) times 
.. which also means that the tonnage of the merchant fleet is 10x the 
Navy.  Not all TMLers accepted this argument, which does not surprise 
me :-)

Using a 50-year life, the total construction capacity x 0.9 x 50 = 
merchant fleet size, which gave me an estimate of total displacement 
tons out there.  As POP A worlds (1 in 36) effectively determine the 
size of the merchant fleet, I estimated / guessed the average size and 
frequency with which ships were in port at their POP A home world, 
rather than at one of the other 36 lower POP worlds.  Then with a 
"hand-is-quicker-than-the-eye" move I equated starpot A (actually 1 in 
6 of all worlds in the noraml tables) with this level of traffic and 
got: 

A port = 60 square miles, 1200 berths, 5 billion Cr
..
E port = 0.5 square miles, 6 berths, 15 million Cr

When I was pointed to the article in White Dwarf, I eagerly identified 
areas of similarity to show how clever I had been :-)

        White Dwarf		Me
A	3 runways (5 km x 1 km) 
	600 berths		1200 berths
	40 sq miles		60 sq miles
	60 Naval berths

B	2 runways (5 km x 1 km)
        200 berths
	20 sq miles
	10 scout berths

C	1 runway (5 km x 1 km)
        75 berths
	10 sq miles
	10 scout berths

D	1 runway (5 km x 1 km) 
        20 berths
	8 sq miles
	19 scout berths

E	1 runway (5 km x 1 km)
	No berths		6 berths
	3 sq miles		0.5 sq miles
	10 scout berths


Fortunately, no-one commented on my POP A = starport A sleight of hand, 
so my reputation is safe.


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:39:17 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: STARPORTS

.. and I thought my "from the TML" archives were sad! 

Simon :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 05:13:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage

In mail you write:

> No, no! What I'm remembering was earlier than that. There was a concept
> piece in AW&ST back in the early 80's, pre NASP, it was for an advance
> rocket design that went no further than concept. In fact, it might have
> been a letter to the editor rather than an article. 
>
>>It failed and is now a dead project.  
>
> It meaning NASP? I wouldn't say it failed, just that the funding wasn't
> continued. There have been a number of projects that have had their funding
> cut that could have succeeded. 
>
> Based on experiments around the world, I'd say the technologies *exist* to
> build spaceplanes. The business and political will isn't there to do
> it...at the moment. 

Consider where we might be if von Braun and Co had not been *forbidden*
to do work on satellites and space travel. They had their satellite
ready to launch before the "civilian" one, and *almost* managed to
sneak a launch of it. They got caught and wound up having to sit there
watching the "civilian" satellites keep failing until it became such an
embarassment that the president *had* to let them launch it. 

While I agree with *some* of Eisenhower's distrust of the "military
industrial complex", he went overboard and did a lot of *harm* by
cancelling and hampering military space efforts and insisting that NASA
"re-invent the wheel" over and over again.

The Air Force DynaSoar program and the Manned Orbiting Laboratory
planned as a follow on would have given us a space station in the
*60s*. And at least *partially* re-usable vehicles.

And it's a crime that the DC-X program didn't get chosen as the X-30.
Though I think I've heard mutterings that it may *still* manage to keep
going. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 05:22:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage

In mail you write:

> Spaceplanes with airbreathing engines seem unlikely (to me, though some
> would disagree.) Fully-resuable single-stage-to-orbit vehicles seem 
> fairly likely, though - NASA is pretty serious about X-33, LockMart is 
> interested in VentureStar (it's successor) and there are a lot of 
> neat, weird concepts for small SSTOs being pursued by small companies
> (ranging in weirdness from aerially-refuelled peroxide-burning spaceplanes,
> to towed-launch spaceplanes, to orbital helicopters...)

Don't forget the *sub*-orbital ideas, like the SpaceCub. If that makes
it into production, once it's been proven by enough flights, expect to
see Fed-Ex and UPS buying them. They give 30 minute "hop" times with
about 1000 km cross-range. Which means you can have one *hour* package
delivery between many cities on both coasts, and some in the midwest.

Scale them up some more and you have Heinlein's "antipodal shuttles".
And at that point they are also good for some SSTO work.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 05:27:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage

In mail you write:

> It occurs to me that we all have been looking at something and not seeing it.
>
>   If cracking water permits a ship to carry more liquid hydrogen than
> carrying Standard Liquid Hydrogen, then ships that carry water as the
> primary fuel can make a jump, spend some time cracking, and then make
> another jump without needing an interplanetary fuelling station...  It also
> means that a fleet of ships can jump to outer orbit of a star, crack water,
> then head inwards to fight with a full fuel tanks...

Most of us *want* to ignore this, because it's an artifact of Traveller
focusing on *volume* rather than *mass* as the limits on a spacecraft.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 05:42:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Macroeconomics

In mail you write:

> Indeed!  The Sayat believe that the only way to cure spandex infestations
> is by brisk application of extremely high electrical voltages.  Usually
> fatal, but anything is preferable to slowly being "absorbed" by this
> hideous bioweapon, obviously left behind by the evil, cunning Ancients and
> still propagated by the Droyne and various spineless puppet minions (e.g.,
> the Templars, the Zhodani Consulate, the Travellers' Aid Society, Mothers
> Against Grav Cycle Carnage, etc.).
>
> Spofulam-designed and manufactured spandex treatment facilities will be
> brought to every planet in the (former) Imperium by approximately 1210 T.I.
> Thank you for your patience.

Now, now, Kenji. 

There's nothing wrong with wearing spandex. It's just that 90%
(minimum) of the people who do are committing a crimee against Humanity
(to say nothing of Good Taste) by doing so. 5 foot tall, 250 lb women
should *not* wear *anything* "form fitting", much less spandex.

	"There are Some Things Man Was not Meant to Know."

And what that sort of body type looks like in spandex is high on the
list! (And I speak as someone who has the equivalent male body type!)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 05:31:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: CD-ROM\TML posts

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:49:50 Kagehira@aol.com Wrote...
>> I know no one's objected so far. But does anybody have objections to
>> their TML mailings being on the CD-ROM?  I'm more than willing to post
>> whatever copyright notices anybody wants on the material. And in fact
>> have requested such when possible.

Go ahead and use my stuff. :-)

If nothing else, it'll let me *find* my old posts! I've had enough
floppies and HDs go weird since the old days, that my mostly complete"
archive is mostly non-existent.

>     Though if memory serves... I thought posting to the Internet essentially
> placed the work in the Public Domain unless you specifically said otherwise?
> Can one of our resident pond scu- ERR, LAWYERS please comment on this?

To start with, posting to a *mailing list* is a *lot* different than
posting to a newsgroup.

Second, until therte's an actual case, all *anybody* can do is guess,
but according to current copyright law, you can only make a work public
domain by *expliciting* including a statement to that effect *from the
copyright holder*, or by waiting until 50 or 75 years (I forget which)
after the author dies.

In the US, you'd have to register the copyright before you can sue, and
you can only collect "actual damges" for any infringement that took
place beforte you registered the copyright. Given that both the list
and archives are free, the *best* you'd likely be able to do is get a
judgement requiring that your postings be removed from future
"editions" of the CD-ROM. And even that would cost a small fortune in
legal fees.

"I am not a lawyer. The above is based merely on comments posted to the
net and on some FAQs. It is not legal advice."

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 05:46:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Religion in America & Traveller too!

In mail you write:

>>        Nope. Occam's razor would lead me to believe that you can't prove
>> either way, and hence become an agnostic ...
>
> You are mistaken about Occams razor. If you cannot prove wether God exists
> or not you apply the Occams razor and choose the theory that postulates the
> least amount of unmeasureable data.

Sorry, but atheism is *not* a "theory". It is based on stating that
something *dos not exist*. Since it is impossible to *prove* a
negative, that makes in "unfalsifiable" and thus *not* a proper theory.

Theories *must* be capable of being tested, and, more importantly, of
being proven *wrong*. Atheism fails tese criteria in *exactly* the same
manner as any other "religious belief".

> Bye bye god-theory no matter how comforting it may seem. We can take this
> to e-mail if you like but I know it is meaningless. Religious people aren't
> religious because that's the best theory for the given data but rather they
> have FAITH. All I said was that atheists should not be constructed as
> having a faith as they could be using scientific methods in everyday life.

Sorry, but atheism *is* a statement of *belief*. One that is
incompatible with the scientific method. An atheist is stating that he
*knows* the answer to a question about which we have no usable data and
no prospect of getting any. *That* is what puts it beyond the pale. 

> I'm not saying that you should use scientific methods all the time just
> that if you do, you're forced to choose the non-god theory unless you have
> been subject to measureable, repeatable miracles unexplainable by science.

No, you have to state that there is no evidence for or against the
existence of a "god" and that thus, the question remains open. 

"no god" is *not* a theory. It's a *conclusion*. And one that isn't
allowed under the rules. 

Tachyons don't seem to exist, not does there seems to be a reason for
them to exist. Yet there's a *world* of difference between the
*correct* scientific statement "There is no evidence that tachyons
exist" and the *improper*, *non*-scientific statement "Tachyons don't
exist."

God must remain as an *unproven* hypothesis until we can adequately
explain *everything* without him. The universe, from the Big Bang
onward, seems *likely* to follow from the laws of physics. But there's
*no* explanation for the laws of physics, especially not of how they
interrelate to produce this universe. Closest we have is the Anthropic
Principle, which is felt to be dodging the question.

So there's still room for the *possibility* of God. So the correct
stance according to the rules of science is "no conclusive evidence for
or against". Which just so happemns to be the agnostic position.

You appear to have "faith" that there *isn't* a God. Fine. But there's
no more evidence for that position than for the opposite.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #205
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 22 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 206



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Eris saith
Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.
Re: Religion in America & Traveller too!
Bid for Traveller Items
Re: Please help, not Traveller related...
Re: Technician career & Tools (Society)
Re: Starport Economics
Re: Trade Classifications
Re: ideas
Re: Discarding Sabot Rounds
Battle Drones
Re: Trade Classifications
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.
Re: ideas
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 05:00:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Eris saith

In mail you write:

>>I firmly believe in the possibility of the tale! Not that the slug
>>inpregnated the woman..the lead slug anyway.., but I certainly *do* believe
>>somebody could have made that claim and tried to make it stick.  I mean if
>>a turkey baster works...;-p

Do recall that musket balls were a *major* infection problem because
being so "flat" faced, they'd carry bullet sized patches of clothing
deep into the wound with them.

So it's *not* that incredible that a piece of testicle could get
carried along. Especially with a "minie ball". Ever see one? I used to
have one. It has these deep "ridges" running around it. Sort of like
piston rings, and for a similar reason.

It's *really* unlikely. But not as impossibble as you might at first
think. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:33:12 +0000
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage

At 05:22 22/02/98 PST, you wrote:
>Don't forget the *sub*-orbital ideas, like the SpaceCub. If that makes
>it into production, once it's been proven by enough flights, expect to
>see Fed-Ex and UPS buying them. They give 30 minute "hop" times with
>about 1000 km cross-range. Which means you can have one *hour* package
>delivery between many cities on both coasts, and some in the midwest.
>
>Scale them up some more and you have Heinlein's "antipodal shuttles".
>And at that point they are also good for some SSTO work.
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)


Would those SpaceCub and other suborbitol shuttles get extremely hot.
So would not there be a waiting period before they cool down.

Does not the SpaceShuttle need to cool down after landing, in order 
for a safe exit by the crew to be made.  



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 06:12:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.

In mail you write:

> Concepts by Jo Grant, details fleshed out by me.
>
> Stealth Suit;  This one piece footed garment comes with a facemask and air
> filter.  Together, every part of the human body is covered.  The fabric has
> the following qualities.  It is fiber encapsulated so that no clothing
> fibers will 'fall off' the garment.  this also keeps skin, sweat, and hair
> from the wearer from being left behind.  With mask and respirator this
> applies to the face as well.
>
> The fabric is manufactured to prevent unwanted noise - it is smooth to
> preven "rubbing noise", and cushioned to supress other noises.  The fabric
> is generally flat black, and is non-reflective.  At high tech levels
> (TL14+) a chameleon option is possible.  At TL14 it merely matches the
> general pattern of the background, at TL15 it will exactly replicate the
> pattern and appearance of the nearest surface (this can be quite fun at
> parties).
>
> Hood, mask and respirator are intended to prevent physical evidence from
> being left at the scene of any activity the user may wish to undertake
> which could then be DNA matched.  It also allows communication without any
> outside noises occuring.  Sounds of excessive respiration will also be
> supressed.

BIG problem. The person *has* to be able to sweat. Or else you'll need
a cooling unit the size of the ones Shuttle astronauts use when going
EVA. That gives you trouble when it comes to preventing variousd
chemicals from being passed into the surrounding atmosphere.

I haven't read anything about it since the 60s, but even then they were
working on detectors to pick up the microgram amounts of the *enormous*
number of volatiles a huan (or other animal/plant) body gives off and
using it to detect intruders. 

Heck, just the CO2 given off is enough to attract mosquitoes (really!)
and thus to make it possible for advanced sensors to spot you. The
various aldehydes and ketones will help.

So at a *minimum* the suit has to include a *very* selectively
permeable membrane. One that will pass water (for sweat and temperature
control), and possibly pass O2 and CO2, but *not* pass anything else. 

On the plus side, this will make it an excellent CBN garment, as the
molecules involved in chemical and biological warfare wiull be too big
to get thru to the wearer. And it'd also stop most radioactivfallout
and the like from getting thru. It won't help against actual radiation
though.

You'll have to make the suit act like a counter current heat exchanger
for gases going in and out, as well as allowing out excess heat (which
is apt to be a *real* problem). So respiration will take place over the
entire surface of the suit.

So even given "magic" technology, you have several ways the wearer can
be detected:

1. oxygen consumption (difficult, even at high tech levels)
2. CO2 emmissions (easier)
3. thermal signature. Sorry, but the human body generates a *lot* of
   heat, and there is *no* way to keep the wearer alive without either
   carrying a *huge* unit containing something to "dump" excess heat
   into or radiating as much heat as the wearer produces. If you don't
   radiate the heat, the wearer will be *dead* in as little as 10
   minutes.  He'll be suffering massive heatstroke in under 5. Carrying
   a supply of "cold" material to dump the heat into runs into trouble
   due to the sheer *amount* of heat you have to get rid of. You'll
   have used up the capacity of any portable unit in a very short time.
4. EM signature, mostly light. At a bare minimum. you have to let in
   light at the eyes so the wearer can see where he is going. Hard,m
   but not impossible to detect at higher tech levels.
5. mass. The intruder *has* mass. And as such, he's *inherently*
   detectable. We *now* have detectors that can detect the mass of your
   fist at a couple of meters. Detecting a 100 kilo intruder at 10
   meters is quite doable. 

#1 &2 can be *somwhat* counteracted by using a regenerative breathing
system. Agian, this adds mass, but I recall seeing pictures of a WWII
re-breather setup that was good for multiple *hours*. Just pray it
doesn't break. :-)

Thermal and mass are your big problems. Anti grav *isn't* (by all
accounts) neutralizing mass. It's generating some sort of counter
force. So it'd likely make you *more* detectable.

Frankly, if you are trying to spy, rather than break in to steal some
object, you'd be much better off with micro-drones. Essentially, tiny
computer controlled fake insects. They fly or crawl in, acting like
normal insects. Only that thread of spider silk the spider is laying
down as it travels (quite normal!) is actually a fiber optic cable. 

Given a variety of drones and a few hours, you may be able to
infiltrate them into much of the desired area, and have the microscopic
fiber cables carrying data undetectably out to some point where they
can safely beam it to you.

Of course these drones are just as vulnerable as normal insects to many
anti-insect measures, and every time someone dusts, it'll wipe out any
surface fibers. 

Still this ought to be quite common in a couple of tech levels.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 06:46:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.

In mail you write:

> Hmmm. I should go to the library and track down more current information on
> memory consolidation. I suspect there could well be lots of drugs already
> known to have the same effect as Mem-X. Alcohol, for instance...

Look up "date rape". There are several drugs that are popular because
they not only knock people out, but they also tend to wipe memory for
as much as several *hours* beforehand. And at least one definitely
interferes with forming long term memory for a while after the victim
regains conciousness.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 06:02:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Religion in America & Traveller too!

In mail you write:

> 8)    IMHO, Agnosticism means theres something out there, but dogmatic
> systems of belief/faith/whatever are unnecessary.

Bzzt! Sorry, wrong answer. You don't get to decide what the word means.
What it is *defined* as is believing that there's no proof one way or
the other. Which makes it theanswer returned by applying the scirntific
method.

What you've defined is essentially Deism or Theism (different sources
give different spellings). The belief that there *is* a "God", but that
beyond that, you aren't willing to go. Pretty much my position.

It's a rather common viewpoint, but most folks confuse it with agnosticism.

Agnostics (A=no, gnosis=knowledge thus "we don't know") aren't sure.
Theists are. So are Atheists.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:19:15 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Bid for Traveller Items

- -----Original Message-----
From: Scott Spieker <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Date: Saturday, February 21, 1998 10:37 PM
Subject: Traveller Items for Sale (Long) #2


>Striker Boxed Set (First Printing with all errata and supplements - MINT
>CONDITION) (1)
> Scott Spieker: scspieker@ncweb.com - $20.00


I bid $30.00

>All Miniatures unpainted.  Original blisters have been opened to inspect
>the figures upon original purchase, but sets are complete (even with
>original packaging.)
>Martian Metals 15mm miniatures (in original box)
> - Imperial Marines with FGMP-14 in various poses. (13 figures with
>separate support weapons)
> Fred Kiesche: FKiesche@aol.com--home & KiescheF@cowen.com--work (willing
>to bid premium for entire lot of minis)
> Danny Moody: DMoody@bridge.com - $30.00


I bid $40.00 for the mini's.

>Martian Metals 15mm Miniatures (no box)
> - Basic adventurers pack (15 miniatures)
> Danny Moody: DMoody@bridge.com - $30.00


I bid $40.00 for the boxed set

>Fifth Frontier War game (boxed - punched) (2.5)
> Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $30.00


I bid $40.00 for FFW.

Thanks,
Thom Harris

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 07:42:50 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: Please help, not Traveller related...

> From:          SemoFetus@aol.com
> Date:          Sun, 22 Feb 1998 01:08:01 EST

Well, let's whip out the OED.  Maybe it'll do better than when I 
tried to look up sabotage.


> The english call them brollies and gamps.

My OED does not not have an entry for brollie, but I've heard it used 
for umbrella.  There are a number of entries for gamp, which support 
the umbrella notion:

 - an umbrella, especially one tied up in a loose, untidy fashion.

The meaning comes from a character in a Dickens novel, a disreputable 
nurse (which is the first entry), who carried such an umbrella.


> What is a busby?

 - a tall fur cap, with or without a plume, having a bag (generally 
of cloth, and of the colour of the facings of the regiment) hanging 
out of the top, on the right side; worn by hussars, artillerymen, and 
engineers; hence, one who wears a busby.


> If you were born within the sound of Bowbells you'd be a:?

 - Bowbells are the bells of Bow Church (St. Mary-le-Bow), in 
Cheapside, London (so-called from the 'bows' or arches that supported 
its steeple).  This church having long had a celebrated peal of 
bells, and being nearly in the centre of the City, the phrase 'within 
the sound of Bow-bells' has come to be synonomous with 'within the 
City bounds'.  [by 'City' they mean the City of London - edjs]


- --
Edward Swatschek - edjs@mindlink.net

The only truly "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that,
it's all learned. (Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org, in
comp.os.linux.misc, on X interfaces.)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 07:35:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Technician career & Tools (Society)

In mail you write:

> On a low-law-level world, if you had medical skill you could fix people.
> With higher law levels you'd need certification to try (or risk penalties).

On a low-law level world there are going to be *severe* penalties if
your skill isn't up to the job. I'd say that some sort of
"certification" would give you a bonus on the roll to see if your
(late) patient's relatives kill you or not. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 07:42:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Starport Economics

In mail you write:

>>> Try one ship. Vectors can change in time, and a single ship can have a
>>> delta vee that changes in three dimensions. Try to plot a single ship
>>> corkscrewing on a 2D map; you can't.
>>
>>Aside from "corkscrewing" being difficult to carry out, it may still be
>>possible to treat that ship and a single *other* ship as a 2-d situation.
>>Especially when you relize that any manuevers involving the "third"
>>dimension in such a situation are a *waste* of delta-V.
>
> It may be a "waste", but you still have to keep track of it because vectors
> in the third dimension will have a component in the other dimensions
> (unless they are colinear, which is pretty unlikely).
>
> I suppose you may be able to 'factor out' the extra dimension, but that
> would mean refiguring the acceleration based on the ships' orientations and
> angle between their acceleration vectors. You couldn't say a ship
> "accelerates ta 2 G" because some of it would have to be factored out. Too
> complicated for me.

Actually, if you stop and think about it, what you wind up with is a
plane containing the *line* that connects both ships. Movements
*normal* to that line define the plane. movements such as your
"corkscrewing" become *rotations* of the plane, which can in essence be
ignored. 

To rephrase that last bit, motions that move the ship neaerer of
farther are "along the line" (X-axis). Movements towards/away from the
line in one direction become the Y axis. And movements along the
"z-axis" merely *rotate* the X-y plane.

>>After getting walked all over on r.a.s.s, I'm not going to say that you
>>*can't* use 2D for such a situation. Remember, nothing states that the
>>"reference plane" has to be "stationary" as viewed by an outside observer.
>
> True, but it'll be a pain refiguring every vector in the new reference
> plane when you do that. Good point, 'tho.

Maybe not. It may actually be *easier* figuring stuff in the "rotating
plane" than in true 3-d. My math ain't up to it.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 07:30:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Trade Classifications

In mail you write:

> Hello all...
> I'm new to the list but I've got some questions regarding trade
> classifications in TNE (MT too).
>
> In the sale price of cargo table, the column for Ice Capped (Ic) worlds
> seems to be missing. The text describing Ice Capped worlds indicates
> that they are poor markets.  Does that mean that they universally have a
> -1?
>
> In a slightly related note... Since Barren (Ba) worlds have 0 population
> wouldn't they all be Low Population (Lo) worlds (pop 4-). And if this is
> true, should the Lo classification be ignored as the Va classification
> is ignored on As worlds?

Well, Ba seems to me to be a special case. *Who* do you plan on trading
*with*? With a population *that* low, you are essentially going to be
negotiating with an NPC, whih means that the trade tables go right out
the airlock.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 06:51:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: ideas

In mail you write:

>>C) Famous student pranks of the 3rd Imperium
>
> Craig would be better suited to handle this one  Praise Rusto!

You mean like the time some students at Sylea Tech (Or was it their
arch-rivals at Vland Institute of Technology [think MIT vs CalTech])
disassembled a small cruiser while the crew was on leave and
re-assembled it inside the domed sports stadium?

Or the time VIT students reprogrammed the AI proctors for midterms at
Sylea Tech to give all the tests in Old High Vilani?

Trust me, reading up on some of the things the students at CalTech and
MIT have done will give you *more* than enough materials for your games
(and, possibly, for your nightmares).

Another interesting field for speculation would be the exploits of the
Imperial Agressor Corps. These are the folks who keep the Imperial
forces on their toes by doing everything fro being the OpFor (Opposing
Force) in wargame scenarios to doing unannounced tests of base security
and unit preparedness.

The US has several groups like this. One of the ones in the Army used
to refer to themselves as "32nd Guards Motor Rifle Regiment" which for
those of you not up on such things, is a *Soviet* style unit
designation. 

I'm informed that back in the "bad old days", both the Air Force *and*
Navy got nailed in a combined op. The Aggressor corps "borrowed" some
B52s, painted red stars on them and *wave hopped* them into San Diego.
It's been a long time since the Navy guy who'd been there told me about
this, but I seem to recall something about flourbombing headquarters...

You can *imagine* what the Imperial equivalent would be like. I expect
that a lot of them woud be Army/Navy/ or Marine folks who'd later
transferred to the Scouts. It takes that kind of crazy outlook to come
up with the right sort tactics, and to pin-point the things that the
"by-the book" types may have overlooked in their security. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 07:15:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Discarding Sabot Rounds

In mail you write:

> I have a question which arose in my game the other day.  I'm subjecting my
> players to 'Chamax Plague' using MT rules and they were busily gunning down
> any Chamaxi that moved when one of them pointed out that the Discarding
> Sabot rounds he was using from his Advanced Combat Rifle had a danger space
> (1.5 m according to the Players Manual).  I realised I didn't actually know
> what a DS round was so I thought I'd ask the knowledgible members of the
> list! :)
>
> So:
>
> a) What is a DS round?  It has higher penetration than normal rounds but why?
>
> b) Should a DS round have a danger space  and if so why?

DS stands for "discarding sabot". Basicly, you have a thin "dart" in
the middle of a lightweight casing or "sabot" (french for "shoe").
Think of a normal rifle cartridge having the bullet replaced by a
plastic (or alumin) bullet. Now split that bullet lengthwise into 2 or
three segments, and have a small hollow in the middle were a finned
"dart" sits. The segements are the sabot, and hold the dart centered in
the bore. They also allow the expanding gases from the poweder to push
evenly on the dart (sort of like the wad in a shotgun shell).

When you fire the riound, the powder creates gases which push on the
sabot, accelerating it down the barrel. Because the sabot+dart weighs
less than a normal bullet it goes faster. As it leaves the barrel, they
sabot is free to seperate from the dart, and does so. That leaves you
with a faster *thinner* projectile heading for the enemy.

Thinner means both that it pentrates better and that it loses less
speed top air resistance.

The "danger zone" is from the sabot segmenbts which don't go too far,
but do tend to spread out a fair bit from the barrel. It's dangerous
being in in a conical area extending from the barrel, because while the
*dart* may miss you, the sabot may well hit you.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:24:45 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Battle Drones

Legate wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What about predictability?  If I do X then the Battle Drone does Y.

What about messing with programing?

What about say the computer gets scrambled & attacks a civilian target?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In order:
Predictability: Add a fuzzy-logic program so the drone will do some version 
of Y, rather than Y itself. Have top-flight programmers rewrite the battle 
code frequently on the carrier so the enemy has trouble linking X and Y.

Messing with the Programming: A dangerous problem. Use good cryptography, 
possibly hardware based. Put big thermite charges hooked to anti-tamper 
booby traps on every computer on the Drone, it would be bad if the enemy 
got their hands on one. Also hook these anti-tamper charges to a radio 
switch - send it the right code (a single-use throwaway cipher, very hard 
to break) and it goes boom. This radio switch would'nt be hooked to the 
onboard computers, so a hacker who got into the programming couldn't stop 
you from knocking out a wayward Drone.

Computer gets Scrambled and Attacks a Civilian Target: Recall the earlier 
thread about IFF problems - would friendly-fire or fire against neutral 
targets be more of a problem with Battle Drones than with manned Fighters?

The biggest expense in today's military aviation isn't the plane, it's the 
pilot. It takes a lot of black-box hardware to replace a pilot, but you 
have a lot of money to spend on black boxes if you aren't paying for the 
flyboy. If the tech level can handle it, you'll see computers flying combat 
missions.

Imagine the political backlash the first time a Battle Drone suffers a 
computer or control error and kills a free trader with full passenger 
load...I can imagine cultures that wouldn't allow their militaries to use 
Battle Drones after a single such incident, or even after realizing such an 
incident could occur.

Think of it - two cultures in conflict, one only uses manned craft, the 
other uses Battle Drones. The advantages the manned craft have will, of 
course, start to fade with ultra-high tech levels...

Manned Craft: better command control, less predictable, much better able to 
adapt to unusual circumstances. Much higher chance of having a player 
character piloting a ship. :)  Lower G tolerance, fewer units available.

Battle Drones: Higher G tolerance, faster reaction time in simple 
situations. More of them (due to the lower expense per unit). Support 
facilities more complex, more vulnerable to jammed communications. 
Predictable.

I see a band of heroic PC's and NPC's in star fighters facing a horde of 
bot-brained Battle Drones, and making like Colonial Viper pilots against 
the Cylon Armada. They might need bigger ships just to fit all the kill 
markings on their hulls - but the baddies will always have more Drones to 
send into the fray, allowing the GM to keep the fight going as long as it's 
fun.

Hmmm....come to think of it, command/control link limitations in the Battle 
Drone fleet could keep the baddies from putting all their Drones in flight 
at once. The GM could therefore keep sending wave after wave of Drones, no 
single wave enough to overwhelm the PC's - kind of like the way bad guys in 
a Kung-Fu movie come at the hero one at a time....



Walt Smith
- --------------------------------------
"I just felt like poisoning a monk." - Umberto Eco, on the writing of _The 
Name of the Rose_. 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:33:29 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Trade Classifications

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
>
> > Hello all...
> > I'm new to the list but I've got some questions regarding trade
> > classifications in TNE (MT too).
> >
> > In the sale price of cargo table, the column for Ice Capped (Ic) worlds
> > seems to be missing. The text describing Ice Capped worlds indicates
> > that they are poor markets.  Does that mean that they universally have a
> > -1?
> >
> > In a slightly related note... Since Barren (Ba) worlds have 0 population
> > wouldn't they all be Low Population (Lo) worlds (pop 4-). And if this is
> > true, should the Lo classification be ignored as the Va classification
> > is ignored on As worlds?
>
> Well, Ba seems to me to be a special case. *Who* do you plan on trading
> *with*? With a population *that* low, you are essentially going to be
> negotiating with an NPC, whih means that the trade tables go right out
> the airlock.

It isn't a matter of trading TO a barren world, there isn't anybody to sell
to. Its a matter of selling goods FROM a  barren world. The reason I'm asking
is for a spreadsheet I'm working on that calculates profit margins between
worlds.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:50:15 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit, Memory eraser drug, etc.

John R. Snead wrote:

> "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:
>
> > The TL15 chameleon option is the same technology as is used on high tech
> > battledress.  If seen from a distance and not moving, a person can lie flat
> > against a wall without being seen, provided the observer is pretty much
> > "straight out" from the wall and there are no other observers around
> > with a better angle.
>
> > There is also an (intentional) lack of IR masking.  In my opinion, it takes
> > a closed loop refrigeration system which, while possible in powered armor
> > with the energy and space it has available, is *not* possible in a couple
> > of layers of spandex.
>
> I would think that IR masking would *definitely* be included.  Combat
> Environment Suits (TL 10) have basic IR masking using a chemical chill can
> which makes them IR invisible for 45 minutes and at TL 12 the suits can
> have a chameleon option which "selectively bleeds heat to match the
> background IR level, effectively rendering the solider invisible to IR
> sensors."  From Mercenary (CT Book 4) page 41.  The CE suit is in CT, MT,
> and TNE, and in CT & MT it weighs 2 kg, so this IR masking doesn't weigh
> very much.  I always assumed it was a network of thermally conducting
> wires and micor-thin metal strips and solid-state cooling and heating
> circuits woven into the suit.  I see no reason why the stealth suits could
> not also have a similar IR chameleon option.  This IR chameleon option
> looks to be considerably easier than actual visible-light color changing.
>
> Anyway, for the visible chameleon effect, I thought about this a bit, and
> based on chameleon painting of ships and such I'd introduce the following:
>
> TL 11 or 12:  Color changing fabric: Combat gear can change to up to a
> dozen pre-set patterns such as desert cammo, arctic cammo, jungle cammo,
> jet black, and international orange (for easy rescue)...
>
> TL 12 or 13: Basic Chameleon clothing:  Clothing can match its basic color
> with the general environment.  Instead of having to rely on a pre-set
> jungle cammo suit this cloth will change so that it contains the same
> basic colors and patterns of its surroundings.  The detail and resolution
> of this color changing is fairly rough, so it works well as night, in
> cover, and at long distances, but is quite obvious close up, even if the
> target is stationary.
>
> TL 14 or 15:  Full Chameleon Clothing: Clothing can do a detailed match of
> its surroundings, the resolution is even better than the color-changing
> flounders which are capable of (roughly) imitating plaid.  Someone
> standing against a brick wall will have a detailed version of the pattern
> of the brick wall upon their clothing. Seen from straight on at more than
> 10 meters away this camouflage works extremely well even in broad
> daylight, as long as the subject is stationary or moves slowly.  Running
> causes the pattern to blur noticeably.
>
> TL 15 or 16:  Same as above, but no blur when running.
>
> Comments?

Most of that can be done with a little extra weight at the same tech level.  The
problem with the "invisible man" suit is that its uni-vectored optical camo.  The
man standing in front of the wall will disappear if you look at him from one
direction.  But if you look at him from 90 degrees, he sticks out like a sore
thumb. In those cases, its better to go with good general (or reprogramable) camo
rather  than "perfect" copying.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:58:46 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: ideas

> "I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
> State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
> Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
> ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
> targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this puppy.
> We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
> we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
> knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)

  Is this the same guy that later said "Game Over Man!"?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:32:40 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

> In addition, a question for y'all: How high should one allow social
> standing to go in character generation? I recently had one character go
> through the program and end up with a SOC of 18! Should the cut off
> be at 15 (Duke), or something lower?

I don't know about T4, but TNE clearly states that no stat may be increased
more than 2 points from career increases.  Since the highest starting SOC is
11, that can only get modified to 13.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #206
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 22 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 207



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Starport Economics
Re: ideas
Re: ideas
Re: Religion in America & Traveller too!
Re: More Tube Steak
Re: Tethers and Satellite article in New Scientist
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: Please help, not Traveller related...
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Eris saith
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Please help, not Traveller related...
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Adushirga - Vilani Good Luck Charms
Re: ideas
Re: Battle Drones

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:16:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

In mail you write:

> On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Daniel Ray Lane wrote:
>
>> I think that the agrument for meson beam origin point location
>> is valid.  Meson decays should be fairly traceable along their
>> beam axis.  Even with the best nuclear level tinkering, statistically,
>> some mesons will decay early and some will decay late.
>
> I agree, it should only require a simple triangulation of several shots to
> give a targeting solution on a deep site.  That's not how they did it,
> though, so I guess that those little buggers are a bit harder to track.

Well, don't the decays follow a bell curve?

If so, there'll be a definite concentration. The trick is if they have
a means *besides* relativity of controlling the half-life  of the
particles. Then by combining relativistic effects *and* a "chosen"
half-life, you can get however many sigmas you want of the bell curve
*inside* the target!

Damn! I just realized that it won't work. Unless I've made a mistake,
the closer to C you get the *wider* the peak gets. I need it to get
*narrower*. 

<sigh> it was *such* a good idea...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:13:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

In mail you write:

> What if you slewed the meson beam a little so, instead of the decay
> happening on a line segment, it gets spread out over a volume. This would
> make it more difficult to track backwards to the source. Also, the
> 'explosion' would occupy a spherical region in space and tend to cause more
> collateral damage.

Then it happens in a *cone*, with the apex at the meson gun. And the
explosion wouldn't be very spherical.

Nice try. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:28:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

In mail you write:

>   In a few roleplaying games, there is a formula that permits a GM to
> calculate the "period" of a planet as it orbits a sun.  Off hand, I don't
> recall the formula used in TRAVELLER SCOUTS, but it will give a period
> value.
>
>   Is it possible, given the Mass of the target sun, plus the "period" of
> the planet, to calculate what the mass of the planet should be?

No. Unless the mass of the planet is a *significant* fraction of that
of the star, the period is determined *solely by mass of the star, and
how far out the planet is.

>   Also, is it possible, based on the information above, to calculate what
> the density of the planet must be in order to accomodate the mass with a
> specified "diameter"?

If you have the diameter of a planet, the volume is:

	V=(4*pi*r^3)/3

Where V is volume, R is the radius of the planet (both in the same kind
of units, ie if R is in km, then v will be in km^3) and pi is 3.1415926...

The density is simply the mass divided by the volume . To be able to
get a *useful* density figure you want tyo use meters for the radius
and metric tonnes for the mass. With that scale water =1, iron =7.8, etc.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 07:54:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Starport Economics

In mail you write:

> At 01:25 AM 19/02/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>And as I've noted elsewhere, any planet that didn't *develop* a wired
>>comm net on its own will likely never have one. Once contacted, its
>>*much* cheaper to put up a low level satellite telephone net like the
>>ones just coming into service here on earth. The satellites are
>>*cheap*, and you need less than 100. The units the folks on the ground
>>use aren't that much different from a cell phone. For a low tech world
>>you'make the ground units tabletop-sized, so as to make swapping boards
>>easier, and likely use larger rechargable batteries and solar cells.
>>
>>They'd still be less than 100 credits each. And even in a place where
>>that was a months wages, or even a *years* wages, you'd find them.
>>Villages go together to buy that sort of thing now. And the richer
>>farmers/landholders would want their own.
>>
>>I think this is part of the fun of Traveller. Having the players learn
>>that "low tech" *doesn't* necessarily mean "stupid" *or* "ignorant". 
>
> IMO a lot of low TL cultures equipment and knowledge will be more like cold
> war Soviet stuff than modern western equipment. It'll be bigger and need
> more maintenence than higher TL gear, but it won't always be much less
> effective. Try an AK-47 - not very advanced materials, sights, etc, but it
> does the trick. Likewise Soviet SAMs.

That's why I said that the "typical" radio/phone is likely to be a
table-top set, not a pocket one. With electronics, size and ruggedness
aren't directly linked. A pocket sized unit is apt to be as rugged as a
desk sized one. But the larger unit lets you use discrete
sub-assemblies, which make it possible to *repair* the larger unit
rather than *replace* it. Sure, it ups assembly costs some (and in fct,
can be shown to lower reliability! That's why you see surface mount
stuff instead of socketed. The sockets were failure points!). But in
return, you can get a half-trained tech to repair it by swapping
modules until he finds the bad one. 

Mechanical stuff will follow a more definitely "Russian" design. 

Ther satellites in orbit will require folks with spacecraft to service
anyway, so they'll just be standard. In fact, I expect that they'll be
*so* standard, that it's easier to just make sets based on *major*
population breaks, as you need so many to get minimal service, that
the extra capacity isn't a problem. That is whether the local pop is
ten or a billion, you'll need 50-80 satellites. Past that, you start
looking at more advanced satellites so that you don't need more of
them. 

At around 100k credits for all 80 satellites (at TL9 costs!) it's not
worth the trouble of simplifying them for the lower population.
Especially since by TL-11 or 12 it may cost more to *deploy* the
satellites than to *build* them.


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:51:24 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: ideas

>> "I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
>> State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
>> Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
>> ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
>> targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this puppy.
>> We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
>> we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
>> knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)
>
>  Is this the same guy that later said "Game Over Man!"?

Yes, and also the one who whined "We're in some real pretty s*** now man!!!"
:^)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:02:06 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: ideas

Joe Pettit wrote:

>> "I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
>> State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
>> Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
>> ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
>> targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this puppy.
>> We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
>> we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
>> knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)
>
>  Is this the same guy that later said "Game Over Man!"?

You had to admire him for having such a thorough and consistent world view.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:02:11 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Religion in America & Traveller too!

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>What you've defined is essentially Deism or Theism (different sources
>give different spellings). The belief that there *is* a "God", but that
>beyond that, you aren't willing to go. Pretty much my position.
>
>It's a rather common viewpoint, but most folks confuse it with agnosticism.
>
>Agnostics (A=no, gnosis=knowledge thus "we don't know") aren't sure.
>Theists are. So are Atheists.

Sounds terminologically reasonable to me... so what about those who
consider that cluster of questions about the existence, nonexistence,
and/or possibility of "deitas" to be meaningless?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:02:16 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: More Tube Steak

Loren Wiseman dangled the bait:

[snip]

>Remind me sometime to tell you (and your Sayat friends) about the Zhodani
>Secret Gelding Grip(tm)...you might find it entertaining.

And I'll bite --

Why, please do!  I and my invisible friends would be delighted to learn
about this!  [CHEAP PUN ALERT]  Is the Zhodani Secret Gelding Grip a
digital version of the old Terran Saami reindeer castration method?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:14:55 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Tethers and Satellite article in New Scientist

I'm curious.  Is this Robert Forward the Robert Forward of Dragon's Egg?


- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:17:48 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Daniel Ray Lane wrote:
> >
> >> I think that the agrument for meson beam origin point location
> >> is valid.  Meson decays should be fairly traceable along their
> >> beam axis.  Even with the best nuclear level tinkering, statistically,
> >> some mesons will decay early and some will decay late.
> >
> > I agree, it should only require a simple triangulation of several shots to
> > give a targeting solution on a deep site.  That's not how they did it,
> > though, so I guess that those little buggers are a bit harder to track.
> 
> Well, don't the decays follow a bell curve?
> 
> If so, there'll be a definite concentration. The trick is if they have
> a means *besides* relativity of controlling the half-life  of the
> particles. Then by combining relativistic effects *and* a "chosen"
> half-life, you can get however many sigmas you want of the bell curve
> *inside* the target!
> 
> Damn! I just realized that it won't work. Unless I've made a mistake,
> the closer to C you get the *wider* the peak gets. I need it to get
> *narrower*.
> 
> <sigh> it was *such* a good idea...
> 
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

Hi Leonard.  It will work.  

Sure, I've always envisioned the decay pattern as a bell curve.  some
mesons decay at the m-screens, lots decay inside the target, and some
decay on the far side of the target.  The end result would look like
a pulse of light passing through the target, with its intensity
peaking at target center.  Bang.

For MGs, the SOM established that nuclear level tinkering does occur
with mesons.  The only real reason you need them near c is for simple
sped of delivery.  Of course you may need to reach some level of
time delay relativistically so the meson decay "clock" will be
effective.

Maybe you don't need such enormous energies.  In any case, this seems
like an engineering problem not a physical one.  

- -Dan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:03:33 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Please help, not Traveller related...

Dear Sir;

I also do Napoleonic minis, so I know a Busby as a round black bearskin hat
(its' shape was roughly like a pillbox hat on steroids) worn by the elite
companies of French Hussars (light cavalry). I believe that the English used
them as headgear for their Royal Horse Artillery. Good luck to your mom. PS If
she wins send her to the Imperial War Museum, and H.M.S. Belfast, and tell her
to take a lot of pictures; you'll like them.

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:05:02 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

> I don't know about T4, but TNE clearly states that no stat may be increased
> more than 2 points from career increases.  Since the highest starting SOC is
> 11, that can only get modified to 13.

Doesn't seem to apply to T4 however, as it is very common to end up with 
characters maxed out on EDU (as a previous discussion/flame fest pointed
out.) 

Also, is the highest starting SOC in TNE an 11? It can go up to 12 in T4
(2d6).

Oops! Just happen to notice on page p 15 of T4 that character stats can range
from 1 to 15. Funny how these little things slide right on by you even after 
repeated readings....  :)


**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:07:49 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Eris saith

I too own minie' balls (I used to be a reinactor). I beleive the foreign
matter infection, but the chances of a woman surviving such a horrible
abdominal wound, let alone her body's defences not destroying any foreign
matter, too be very, VERY remote.

Seth

(PS I'd like to see this incorperated into a Traveller campaign)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:31:55 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

Paul D. Owensby wrote:

> > I don't know about T4, but TNE clearly states that no stat may be increased
> > more than 2 points from career increases.  Since the highest starting SOC is
> > 11, that can only get modified to 13.
>
> Doesn't seem to apply to T4 however,

I wouldn't know. I don't have T4.

> as it is very common to end up with
> characters maxed out on EDU (as a previous discussion/flame fest pointed
> out.)

I would hazard a guess that either the rule has been missed or was cut out during
editing.

>
>
> Also, is the highest starting SOC in TNE an 11? It can go up to 12 in T4
> (2d6).

All of the stats are 2d6-1  in TNE.  Hmm... now that I look that up specifically,
additional rules allow a SOC of 15 (F)... of course it also points out that the
SOC tells you what your parents or guardian's social standing is.  And as I've
pointed out in my games, A hard vacuum cares little who your father was.

>
>
> Oops! Just happen to notice on page p 15 of T4 that character stats can range
> from 1 to 15. Funny how these little things slide right on by you even after
> repeated readings....  :)

Well, I guess thats it then... Check again for that 2 point increase rule. And
look for that -1 on starting rolls. I wouldn't think they'd change that from
system to system. Probably a typo.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:47:22 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

From thee charts for T4.1

SOCIAL STANDING
	Soc	Equivalent
	0	
	1	
	2	Dregs of Society
	3	Lower Low Class
	4	Middle Low Class
	5	Upper Low Class
	6	Lower Middle Class
	7	Middle Class
	8	Upper Middle Class
	9	Lower Upper Class
	A	Middle Upper Class
	B	Upper Upper Class
	C	Remarkable
	D	Extraordinary
	E	Extreme
	F	
Social Standing indicates social class and the level of society from which the
character comes.

NOBLE TITLES
	The Imperium issues noble titles which are reflected in personal social
standing.
	B	Knight.
	C	Baron.
	D	Marquis.
	E	Count.
	F	Duke.
	There are ranks above F, but the system generally reserves them for non-
player characters.
	G	Archduke
	H	Emperor

SUPPORT
	Social standing determines the cost to that individual for basic living.
	Cr250 x Soc = Typical cost of monthly support (food, clothes, lodging, basic
entertainment).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:51:06 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

At 10:32 AM 22/02/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> In addition, a question for y'all: How high should one allow social
>> standing to go in character generation? I recently had one character go
>> through the program and end up with a SOC of 18! Should the cut off
>> be at 15 (Duke), or something lower?
>
>I don't know about T4, but TNE clearly states that no stat may be increased
>more than 2 points from career increases.  Since the highest starting SOC is
>11, that can only get modified to 13.
>
However TNE doesn't count SOC as an attribute, and clearly says that it can
change dramatically, the only limits being 1 and 15.

- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

   "If in doubt - wipe it out."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:18:19 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

> Well, I guess thats it then... Check again for that 2 point increase rule. And
> look for that -1 on starting rolls. I wouldn't think they'd change that from
> system to system. Probably a typo.

Guess again.  I've played every version *but* TNE. CT/MT/T4 are all 
rolled with a straight 2D6.

Suz

Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:55:37 -0500
From: Madeleine Oldham <madalien@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Please help, not Traveller related...

SemoFetus@aol.com wrote:
> 
> My mother is involved with a contest, and she has sent me out to look for one
> of the answers.  The contest is a trip to England, and she needs some answers
> for it...
> 
> If anyone could help with the following, I will be _eternally_ grateful, as
> will my mom, or, in the spirit of the contest, my mum.
> 
> Okay, here goes:
> 
> The english call them brollies and gamps.
> What is a busby?
> If you were born within the sound of Bowbells you'd be a:? Cockney
One out of three - pretty sad considering I'm English!
> Chris

> The answers need to get here by Monday morning.  Anyone who knows the answers
> please help.  I know that this is completely off topic, and I apologize
> profusely, but frankly, I wasn't sure where else to find people who might
> know.
> 
> Thanks alot...
> 
> Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:58:13 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

Suz Dollar wrote:

> > Well, I guess thats it then... Check again for that 2 point increase rule. And
> > look for that -1 on starting rolls. I wouldn't think they'd change that from
> > system to system. Probably a typo.
>
> Guess again.  I've played every version *but* TNE. CT/MT/T4 are all
> rolled with a straight 2D6.

Hmm... I guess that makes us Tinears wussies... that virus must have affected more
than just computers...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:16:28 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Adushirga - Vilani Good Luck Charms

Okay, this is one of those rare cases that things just work out amazingly
well!  :^)  I was going to dedicate this item to those who helped my mom with
the English stuff, and is it turns out, it is just _way_ too fitting due to
the tradition I made up behind these items.  Adushirga were first mentioned in
my Naamidu Sharudkariin concert review posting.

Thanks to everybody who helped, and thanks for the wishes of luck.  This post
is dedicated to those who helped out, no matter how many (or few) they helped
to answer.  Thanks all:

Adushirga (Vilani Good Luck Charms)

These small good luck charms originated on Vland, although adornments of a
similar nature were (and in many cases are) common in a number of eras on many
different worlds.  Two things set them apart from the rest, however.  They
have a very specific traditional meaning, and are common in all corners of the
Imperium.

The origins of the Adushirga are lost, although they most probably date back
long before the Ziru Sirka.  Adushirga are small charms, usually made of
plastic, each with a small ring at the top that is made to be strung on a thin
bracelet or necklace.  They are collected and worn (or sometimes carried in a
pocket, especially among older teenagers and adults).  The practice is
believed to stem from an ancient Vilani belief that you should pass along a
little good luck to someone who has done something nice for you.  Somewhere
during the history of the Vilani people, this belief manifested itself in the
practice of actually giving a small charm to an individual who has done
something nice.  The charms come in a variety of shapes and colors, and as the
practice became more widespread in the Imperium, the good luck symbols of
other cultures were appropriated as well.  The original symbols are Vilani in
nature, and are still quite common.  The average person doesn't know where
those symbols (or many of the other symbols) had originated.

There are many purely Vilani symbols, the following is a sampling of the most
common:

- - a coiled worm (popularly believed to be the adushiruu worm which is common
on Vland)
- - an old Vilani symbol for "happiness" (appearing something like a Solomani
"pi" sign with the addition of a shorter middle leg)
- - the smaller offset circle within a circle symbol of the Vland and the Ziru
Sirka

A large variety of symbols have Solomani roots, here is a short list of them:

- - an upside-down 'U' shape with knobs on each terminating stroke (a Solomani
symbol, either originating from their horseshoe design or an ancient character
known as "omega")
- - a leaf with four parts (an extremely uncommon mutation of a Terran plant
none as a "clover")
- - the stylized Solomani heart-shape.
- - a serpent-like shape with small legs, based on a mythical "dragon"

The Imperial Starburst is a symbol that is pretty commonly seen as an
adushirga, as are the good luck symbols of local cultures.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:39:37 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: ideas

> From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
> > "I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
> > State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
> > Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
> > ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
> > targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this
puppy.
> > We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
> > we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
> > knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)
>   Is this the same guy that later said "Game Over Man!"?

Yes.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:37:44 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Battle Drones

> From: Walter G. Smith <smithw@hartwick.edu>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> What about predictability?  If I do X then the Battle Drone does Y.
> What about messing with programing?
> What about say the computer gets scrambled & attacks a civilian target?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> In order:
> Predictability: Add a fuzzy-logic program so the drone will do some
version 
> of Y, rather than Y itself. Have top-flight programmers rewrite the
battle 
> code frequently on the carrier so the enemy has trouble linking X and Y.

Well, thank you, I was thinking this, but take into account the level of
computer tech in Traveller & why not install an AI?

> Messing with the Programming: A dangerous problem. Use good cryptography,

> possibly hardware based. Put big thermite charges hooked to anti-tamper 
> booby traps on every computer on the Drone, it would be bad if the enemy 
> got their hands on one. Also hook these anti-tamper charges to a radio 
> switch - send it the right code (a single-use throwaway cipher, very hard

> to break) and it goes boom. This radio switch would'nt be hooked to the 
> onboard computers, so a hacker who got into the programming couldn't stop

> you from knocking out a wayward Drone.

Cool, but I think that a reasourceful player could get around this.

> Computer gets Scrambled and Attacks a Civilian Target: Recall the earlier

> thread about IFF problems - would friendly-fire or fire against neutral 
> targets be more of a problem with Battle Drones than with manned
Fighters?

I would have to say so.  Just think the SW use some Battle Drones & they
get scrambled & attack a 3I free trader.  Would this not start a war?

> The biggest expense in today's military aviation isn't the plane, it's
the 
> pilot. It takes a lot of black-box hardware to replace a pilot, but you 
> have a lot of money to spend on black boxes if you aren't paying for the 
> flyboy. If the tech level can handle it, you'll see computers flying
combat 
> missions.

I would have to say that with most humans anti-robot bias, I can see while
this may be able to be done, I don't think it will be done.

> Imagine the political backlash the first time a Battle Drone suffers a 
> computer or control error and kills a free trader with full passenger 
> load...I can imagine cultures that wouldn't allow their militaries to use

> Battle Drones after a single such incident, or even after realizing such
an 
> incident could occur.

I can see a war.  Think a Zho BD attacks 3I shipping inside 3I Space.  What
do you think would happen?  A war.  Heck this could be the start of a great
game.  The Zho & 3I intelligance working together to stop a war that a
fringe group wants to start.  A great way to show players that either the
3I or Zho are human too.

> Walt Smith

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this puppy.
We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #207
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, February 22 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 208



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage
Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re:CD-ROM\TML posts (fwd)
Re: jump vs stutterwarp
Sub-Orbital Vehicles
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Zhodani Secret Gelding Grip(tm)
Re: Please help, not Traveller related...
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #202
Vacation
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #202
Re: Vacation
Analog Xenophonts
Davincii Early Tank (TL2)
Skiff (TL2)
Tinker's Cart (TL1)
Metator Updated
Re: Analog Xenophonts

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:27:51 +1030 (CST)
From: John Rowe <jtr@adelaide.dialix.com.au>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

> From the charts for T4.1
> 
> SOCIAL STANDING
> 	Soc	Equivalent
> 	0	
> 	1	
> 	2	Dregs of Society
> 	3	Lower Low Class
> 	4	Middle Low Class
> 	5	Upper Low Class
> 	6	Lower Middle Class
> 	7	Middle Class
> 	8	Upper Middle Class
> 	9	Lower Upper Class
> 	A	Middle Upper Class
> 	B	Upper Upper Class
> 	C	Remarkable
> 	D	Extraordinary
> 	E	Extreme
> 	F	
> Social Standing indicates social class and the level of society from which the
> character comes.

Interesting stuff, but it doesn't give an indication of what occupation 
fits into what class.  Where do soldiers fit, for instance, or 
mercenaries?  Are pilots more highly thought of than teachers, or doctors?

Cheers

John Rowe
jtr@adelaide.dialix.oz.au

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 98 16:21:37 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage

On 02/22/98 at 05:22 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>Don't forget the *sub*-orbital ideas, like the SpaceCub. If that makes it
>into production, once it's been proven by enough flights, expect to see
>Fed-Ex and UPS buying them. They give 30 minute "hop" times with about
>1000 km cross-range. Which means you can have one *hour* package delivery
>between many cities on both coasts, and some in the midwest.

I really think you're going to see 2 stage sub-orbital "vans" in the next
few years.  Use an airplane for the first stage to boost the piggy-backed
"van" up to a few kilometers.  Then the Van separates and uses rockets to
boost above the atmosphere.  The van lands at an airport halfway around the
world using small jet engines.  I've seen proposals that give
intercontinental ranges.

>Scale them up some more and you have Heinlein's "antipodal shuttles". And
>at that point they are also good for some SSTO work.

I think the piggy-back approach will be the first *commercial* step,
followed by SSTO.  Hasn't FedEx had an outstanding RFP for a
intercontinental vehicle that can fly within some cost range for several
years now, or is that another urban myth?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 98 16:46:46 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage

On 02/22/98 at 05:13 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>The Air Force DynaSoar program and the Manned Orbiting Laboratory planned
>as a follow on would have given us a space station in the *60s*. And at
>least *partially* re-usable vehicles.

Yeah, I agree.  If DynaSoar and MOL had been followed up on, the space race
would have continued in LEO even after the Russians bowed out of the Moon
Race.  IMO, the only thing that has kept us from *really* "bustin" out into
space has been a lack of perceived competition.  After all, the Moon Race
was more for National Prestige (and how it affect national security) than
anything else...at least to the politicos.

>And it's a crime that the DC-X program didn't get chosen as the X-30.
>Though I think I've heard mutterings that it may *still* manage to keep
>going. 

I hope so.  I *think* so, but I don't think NASA/government is going to
make the breakthrough.  It's time for commercial interest to come into
play.

You know the saying, "When it's time for trains, somebody will build
trains.", right?  ;-> IMO, it's getting close to "time for trains" in
regards to inexpensive ground to leo technology.  Heck, the concept has
been on ABC/NBC/CBS nightly news in the last few months, in one form or
another; businessmen are talking about commercial ventures that will
require low-cost G/LEO in business articles in the Wall Street Journal; and
the concept of the need to protect ourselves from earth crossing
asteroids/comets is beginning to penetrate the national (even world)
psyche.  I'm being optimistic today, must be in my manic cycle ;->, but I
think the "next big thing" is going to be the commercialization of low
earth orbit.

The commercial interests might not start out with that in mind.  They will
be looking to put up hundreds of *really* cheap satellites for
international cell-phone, video, data communications, and will have to have
low-cost G/LEO service.  They will be looking to offer same business day
continental and next day intercontinental package delivery service, and
will have to buy into low-cost G/LEO systems.  On the heels of this
ventures will come tourism, with first sub-orbital flights, then Orbital
tours that will require a Space Hotel. 

Within ten years, unless there is an economic depression, within twenty if
there is...IMO.  At least, I hope so! 

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:13:59 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

John Rowe wrote:

> > From the charts for T4.1
> >
> > SOCIAL STANDING
> >       Soc     Equivalent
> >       0
> >       1
> >       2       Dregs of Society
> >       3       Lower Low Class
> >       4       Middle Low Class
> >       5       Upper Low Class
> >       6       Lower Middle Class
> >       7       Middle Class
> >       8       Upper Middle Class
> >       9       Lower Upper Class
> >       A       Middle Upper Class
> >       B       Upper Upper Class
> >       C       Remarkable
> >       D       Extraordinary
> >       E       Extreme
> >       F
> > Social Standing indicates social class and the level of society from which the
> > character comes.
>
> Interesting stuff, but it doesn't give an indication of what occupation
> fits into what class.  Where do soldiers fit, for instance, or
> mercenaries?  Are pilots more highly thought of than teachers, or doctors?

That's all highly dependent on culture.  To borrow from Battletech, clans think very
highly of their mech pilots.  Of course lawyers could universally be classed at no
better than 2 :)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 98 22:58 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re:CD-ROM\TML posts (fwd)

Moin Stephen,

>     Though if memory serves... I thought posting to the Internet essentially
> placed the work in the Public Domain unless you specifically said otherwise?
> Can one of our resident pond scu- ERR, LAWYERS please comment on this?

	Better dont ask a lawer. According "Berner Uebereinkunft" everything
	is copyrighted, and reproduction is only allowed with explecite
	authors or copyright holders permission. If you cant ask the
	copyright holder you are not allowed to reproduce anything.
	Common sense in the internet is quite different. e.g. I'm
	quoting parts of your mail, without asking you for permission,
	or I have a CD containing comp.sources & alt.sources complete.
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 98 23:36 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: jump vs stutterwarp

Moin David P. Summers,

> >The major vs minor thing is mainly propaganda anyway, IMO.
> Yeah.  All the major powers also "just happen" to be major races...

	- Das 3te Reich unterschied zwischen Herrenrassen und
	  minderwertingen rassen.

	translation :

	- The 3rd empire distinct major and minor races.

	questions :

	- how many other examples of fascism in traveller terminology
	  can be found, beside that and the 1000 years Reich hint ?
	- is it legal to translate "captative colony" with
	  "Konzentrationslager" ?
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 98 17:28:08 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Sub-Orbital Vehicles

On 02/22/98 at 02:33 PM,  Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com> said:

>Would those SpaceCub and other suborbitol shuttles get extremely hot. So
>would not there be a waiting period before they cool down.

Their skins would get quite hot, that's for sure, but I don't think there
would be a long waiting period before they cool down, and besides we're
talking about a turnaround of several hours, maybe a day, not thirty
minutes.

>Does not the SpaceShuttle need to cool down after landing, in order  for a
>safe exit by the crew to be made.  

Could be, but I thought that was due to possible hydrozine in the
atmosphere around the shuttle. IAC, the Shuttle is 1970's technology and I
suspect we could do considerably better today.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:06:53 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

In CT, we always considered soc. Stat. 11 as the minimum for knighthood. Is
this true in T4?

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:31:03 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Zhodani Secret Gelding Grip(tm)

Kenji lept at the bait, saying:

>>Remind me sometime to tell you (and your Sayat friends) about the Zhodani
>>Secret Gelding Grip(tm)...you might find it entertaining.
>
>And I'll bite --
>
>Why, please do!  I and my invisible friends would be delighted to learn
>about this!  [CHEAP PUN ALERT]  Is the Zhodani Secret Gelding Grip a
>digital version of the old Terran Saami reindeer castration method?

THe ZSGG is a running gag in some of the campaigns I participated in over the
years, originating in the old Star Trek TV show where Spock says" I
instinctively used the Vulcan Death Grip." 

I would get in some tight spot in D&D or Cthulhu or SHadowrun or whatever, and
announce that I was using the Something Something grip, tailored to the
individual situation. Gradually it came to be accompanied by an impromptu
explanation ("Well, you let your thumbnail grow real real long, and..." "Well,
it involves a rubber band the size and shape of a Cheerio, which is placed..."
"You take a linoleum knife and..." "Teeth and claws are used to..." 

The actual details were never revealed, sad to say...they are best left to the
imagination anyway.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:27:21 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Please help, not Traveller related...

A brollie is an umbrella

A Busby is a Guardsman's Bearskin 'hat'

as for the remaining one, i wasnot born with earshot si i do not know

Colin
At 01:08 22/02/98 EST, you wrote:
>My mother is involved with a contest, and she has sent me out to look for one
>of the answers.  The contest is a trip to England, and she needs some answers
>for it...
>
>If anyone could help with the following, I will be _eternally_ grateful, as
>will my mom, or, in the spirit of the contest, my mum.
>
>Okay, here goes:
>
>The english call them brollies and gamps.
>What is a busby?
>If you were born within the sound of Bowbells you'd be a:?
>
>The answers need to get here by Monday morning.  Anyone who knows the answers
>please help.  I know that this is completely off topic, and I apologize
>profusely, but frankly, I wasn't sure where else to find people who might
>know.
>
>Thanks alot...
>
>Semo
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 01:22:35 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #202

On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:24:40 -0500, Daniel Ray Lane
<drlane@edgenet.net> wrote:

>Clark Crawford wrote:
 
>> On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Daniel Ray Lane wrote:
 
>> > I think that the agrument for meson beam origin point location
>> > is valid.  Meson decays should be fairly traceable along their
>> > beam axis.  Even with the best nuclear level tinkering, statistically,
>> > some mesons will decay early and some will decay late.
 
>> I agree, it should only require a simple triangulation of several shots to
>> give a targeting solution on a deep site.  That's not how they did it,
>> though, so I guess that those little buggers are a bit harder to track.

>Traveller is remarkably ignorant of potential synergies in its many
>technologies.  They seem to almost be "compartented," with little
>apparent cross-pollination.  IMO, meson countertargetting might not
>be easy, but it would be possible.  So would counterargetting vs.
>grav focues lasers.

Given some of the background information we have, this
compartmentalization isn't totally surprising: the Vilani
discourage innovation and independent exploration, and encourage
rote learning and doing things in a specified way because "it's
always been done that way".

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:41:06 -0600 (CST)
From: searles@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Vacation

I am going on vacation soon and I need to unsubscribe while I am gone.  Will 
resubscribe after I return.  Can anyone help me unsubscribe?

Thanks,

Cygnus

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:33:50 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #202

> 
> Given some of the background information we have, this
> compartmentalization isn't totally surprising: the Vilani
> discourage innovation and independent exploration, and encourage
> rote learning and doing things in a specified way because "it's
> always been done that way".


This is a valid point, and I've kind of com to that conclusion as
well.

- -Dan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:32:31 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: Vacation

searles@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> I am going on vacation soon and I need to unsubscribe while I am gone.  Will
> resubscribe after I return.  Can anyone help me unsubscribe?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cygnus
If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
you can send mail to <Majordomo@lists.MPGN.COM> with the following
command in the body of your email message:

    unsubscribe traveller searles@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:50:57 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Analog Xenophonts

I've been working on an idea for an alien race, starting with their 
physiology and working from there...they've been designed with compound 
eyes, and I included color-changing capabilities for each cell of the eye 
structures. I decided they would communicate by presenting an ever-changing 
whorl of color, with complex emotional, situational and informational 
components.

This led me to consider the world view of these xenophonts. I wanted to 
give them something in common with humanity, a basis for communication - I 
was surprised when the answer came to me so easily. More on this at the 
end.

These creatures communicate and reason in a completely analog fashion - 
their color-whorl presents a complete concept all at once, all the levels 
of the concept a coherent whole. When two or more communicate, their 
changing whorls interact quickly and at complex levels - what looks like a 
band of aliens standing like statues is an intense conversation, argument 
or debate.

Since one of these xenophonts is so aware of the world-view of others, they 
do not see themselves as being complete individuals - they are 
self-directed, but their awareness makes it relatively easy to understand 
another, know what another will do.

As they only fuzzily see themselves as discrete individuals, so is their 
concept of One somewhat limited - quite simply, the idea of things being 
all one thing or another, one or zero, on or off, is very difficult for 
them. Some of them can handle and work with the idea, as some humans can 
handle differential equations, but the average member of this race will 
neither understand nor see a need for the concept - even though (as with 
differential equations) the benefits of such understanding could be 
extreme.

So, here we have an alien race that thinks almost entirely in analog terms. 
I'm trying to understand them, develop them for a complete write-up...and 
I'd love some input. How would this worldview affect their scientific 
development? Their dealings with humanity? I've got some ideas, but I'd 
like to bounce this idea around a little before I set it down.

Oh, yes, the common ground with humanity...it struck me that these 
creatures would be astounded by something we do every day. All their 
communication is presented as whole concepts, you know where someone is 
going as soon as they "speak". But when a human talks, she can present a 
series of words that go in an unexpected direction - this amazes them. I 
think we call it "telling a joke".

Ideas welcome...I haven't even named these critters yet...



Walt Smith
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't go getting yourself killed, Mr. Potts. It would inconvenience me." - 
Charlton Heston as _Major Dundee_

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:07:50 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Davincii Early Tank (TL2)

Davincii Early Tank (TL2)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     3.10 displacement ton box;  32.4 tonnes;  kCr 29.5
Chassis:
     43.4 kL box (5.5 m long x 2.8 m wide x 2.8 m high);  
Structure: 716 kg of heavy wood, rated for 1.0Gs, body 1.0 cm thick
     Armour: 2 front (8.0 cm), 2 sides (8.0 cm), 2 rear (8.0 cm), 1 top
(1.0 cm), 1 bottom (1.0 cm)
Performance:
     120 kW TL1 rowers; Fuel: 0 mL of food (0.000 g), 0 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 120 kW wheels; 
Maximum Speed: 4 km/h; Range: 0 km; Agility: +3DM (0.0G); 
     
Crew:
     Crew roster: driver, 10 gunners, commander;  12 crew stations
Armament:
     Weapon                          Damage    Range          Shots   
Reloads   Notes
     Cannon, Medium-2                8         Very Short     1       20  
     2 gunners
     Cannon, Medium-2                8         Very Short     1       20  
     2 gunners
     Cannon, Heavy-2                 10        Very Short     1       20  
     3 gunners
     Cannon, Heavy-2                 10        Very Short     1       20  
     3 gunners
Communications:
     No communicators installed.
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.

Lumbering and impractical, this is one of the strangest creations to grace
a battlefield. Born in the fevered imagination of an early inventor,
possibly inspired by stories of high-tech warfare, this early tank pushes
past the limits of practical technology. 

A wheeled large box, armoured in stout ironwood and driven by
muscle-power, the Davincii serves as a mobile artillery platform. Although
it is impervious to small-arms fire, it cannot avoid even heavy infantry
and so must be guarded at all times.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:40:59 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Skiff (TL2)

Skiff (TL2)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     1.00 displacement ton open-topped wedge;  5.56 tonnes;  kCr 20.2
Chassis:
     14.0 kL open-topped wedge (7.5 m long x 2.10 m wide x 1.9 m high);  
Structure: 421 kg of heavy wood, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.30 cm thick, 0
armour rating
     
Performance:
     300 kW TL1 sail
     Propulsion System: 300 kW watercraft; 
Maximum Speed: 7 km/h loaded, 12 km/h unloaded; Range: 0 km; Agility: +3DM
(0.0G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: helmsman;  1 crew station;  6 cramped passenger seats
Communications:
     No communicators installed.
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.
Other:
     4.27 kL of cargo space (2.14 tonnes)

Most cultures living near water quickly learn to use it for fast, easy
transport. The skiff is a typical utility craft, capable of transporting
mix of passengers and cargo for short distances in relatively sheltered
waters. 

Virtually the entire cost of the skiff is its sail. In an emergency, the
woner will rescue the sail and let the hull sink.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:41:05 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Tinker's Cart (TL1)

Tinker's Cart (TL1)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: uses draft team, realistic unloaded speed,
realistic stress.

Summary:
     0.20 displacement ton box;  9.53 tonnes;  kCr 10.7
Chassis:
     2.80 kL box (2.2 m long x 1.1 m wide x 1.1 m high);  
Structure: 115 kg of heavy wood, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.30 cm thick, 0
armour rating
     
Performance:
     40.0 kW TL0 draft animals; Fuel: 0 mL of food (0.000 g), 0 hours
supply
     Propulsion System: 40.0 kW wheels; 
Maximum Speed: 3 km/h loaded, 3 km/h unloaded; Range: 0 km; Agility: +1DM
(0.0G); 
     
Crew:
     Crew roster: driver;  1 external crew station
Communications:
     No communicators installed.
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.
Other:
     1.0 m3 of lab space; 1.34 kL of cargo space (669 kg)

Low tech worlds still depend on technology, and the people who keep it
functioning. A housewife who's pot has sprung a leak cannot repair it on
her own; a farmer with a broken plowshare needs a blacksmith to weld the
pieces together. Small settlements cannot support dedicated workers, and
so rely on travelling technicians.

The tinker's cart is simply an enclosed box containing a small workshop
and space for personal effects. The driver's seat is outside, sheltered
from the elements by a small awning. The cart isn't fast, but neither is
the pace of life.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:49:49 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Metator Updated

I've uploaded a slightly cleaned-up version of Metator to:

http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/software.html

This version won't save or print, but it also won't crash as often!  Why
did I disable saving and printing? Well, aside from causing a few of the
crashes, I won't be supporting the old Metator data format with the new
version, and I discovered with CSC/Infini-V that people expect to be able
to import older data. 


Today I started work on the rewrite, which will clean up the code, make it
easier to introduce PC-compatibility, and all T4-specific features. i will
upload progressive demo version for comments


Information I need (so far) to make this version T4.1-compatible:

1) the finalized milieu-specific mods for world generation

2) the errata for T4 animal encounter table generation



PS. You folks owe Dom and Bruce a vote of thanks. CSC/Infini-V wouldn't
have shipped without their dedicated playtesting. Also, without the
concrete financial support of Kenji and Andrew I couldn't have considered
upgrading Metator.  Thanks guys.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:12:59 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Analog Xenophonts

Walter G. Smith wrote:

> I've been working on an idea for an alien race, starting with their
> physiology and working from there...they've been designed with compound
> eyes, and I included color-changing capabilities for each cell of the eye
> structures. I decided they would communicate by presenting an ever-changing
> whorl of color, with complex emotional, situational and informational
> components.
>

Vision would be key in the biological makeup of these creatures. I would
venture to say their range of vision extends beyond our visual spectrum.  It
would also be interesting if they displayed what they thought.  This makes it
impossible for them to lie... or at least VERY difficult.

> This led me to consider the world view of these xenophonts. I wanted to
> give them something in common with humanity, a basis for communication - I
> was surprised when the answer came to me so easily. More on this at the
> end.
>
> These creatures communicate and reason in a completely analog fashion -
> their color-whorl presents a complete concept all at once, all the levels
> of the concept a coherent whole. When two or more communicate, their
> changing whorls interact quickly and at complex levels - what looks like a
> band of aliens standing like statues is an intense conversation, argument
> or debate.
>

If their range of vision went into the UV spectrum (like bees) this would be
much easier as they have a wider bandwidth for communications. They would be
really good with visual data.

> Since one of these xenophonts is so aware of the world-view of others, they
> do not see themselves as being complete individuals - they are
> self-directed, but their awareness makes it relatively easy to understand
> another, know what another will do.
>
> As they only fuzzily see themselves as discrete individuals, so is their
> concept of One somewhat limited - quite simply, the idea of things being
> all one thing or another, one or zero, on or off, is very difficult for
> them. Some of them can handle and work with the idea, as some humans can
> handle differential equations, but the average member of this race will
> neither understand nor see a need for the concept - even though (as with
> differential equations) the benefits of such understanding could be
> extreme.
>
> So, here we have an alien race that thinks almost entirely in analog terms.
> I'm trying to understand them, develop them for a complete write-up...and
> I'd love some input. How would this worldview affect their scientific
> development? Their dealings with humanity? I've got some ideas, but I'd
> like to bounce this idea around a little before I set it down.
>
> Oh, yes, the common ground with humanity...it struck me that these
> creatures would be astounded by something we do every day. All their
> communication is presented as whole concepts, you know where someone is
> going as soon as they "speak". But when a human talks, she can present a
> series of words that go in an unexpected direction - this amazes them. I
> think we call it "telling a joke".
>

I wouldn't be so certain that they could even hear.

> Ideas welcome...I haven't even named these critters yet...
>
> Walt Smith
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Don't go getting yourself killed, Mr. Potts. It would inconvenience me." -
> Charlton Heston as _Major Dundee_

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #208
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 23 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 209



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: ideas
Traveller Items for Sale (Long) #3
Re: Traveller Items for Sale (Long) #4
MT Ship Combat (LONG)
re: Analog Xenophonts
Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)
Re: Analog Xenophonts
Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)
re: Analog Xenophonts

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:51:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: ideas

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:55:07 -0800
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
> 
> >1) The "Phantom of the Opera" as a Traveller senario too
> 
> This has possibilities, especially if the Phantom is a long stranded
> Imperial scout using the rements of his high tech equipment to haunt the
> Opera House.. hmmm.. I like this one.

Or put it aboard a ginormous, aging liner...20 years ago there was a
terrible accident in the engine room, radiation spill, hull breach, 2nd
Engineer presume blown into space...but no, though hideously disfigured
and driven mad by pain and disorientation, he crawled into the ship's
little-used maintenance shafts and hull spaces, and survived...

> >C) Famous student pranks of the 3rd Imperium
> 
> Craig would be better suited to handle this one  Praise Rusto!

:) Setup here could be a graduate of Sylea Tech, in town for the big
gravball game against crosstown arch-rivals Zhunastu College.  School
officials quietly approach him (and his friends) with a job offer, based
on his knowledge of the school and, ah, security issues.  Seems a war of
pranks is escalating between the two schools as the game approaches, and
the characters are asked to figure out what Sylea's game-day coup de grace
will be, and prevent it.  The Sylea grad's loyalties would be torn between
the desire to stop a bunch of kids from doing something criminally stupid,
and the desire to see his alma mater really score prank points against ZC. 

> >iv) Traveller as a generic game system (a "magic" system for Traveller)
> 
> No.  Not.  The only way I would accept this is a world where the local
> wizards are psionicists.

And why not?  Sufficiently powerful psi is indistinguishable from magic. 

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:25:39 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Traveller Items for Sale (Long) #3

	The owner of the items is still overwhelmed with the warm response his
items have received and is greatly appreciative of the offers.

	As a reminder, the owner of the game items is reserving the right to deny
an offer for an item if he feels that the offer is not fair enough for that
item - This is not a standard auction where the items are definately sold
to the highest bidder.  The owner believes that his collection is worth
some number, and if the offers do not fit within his acceptable range, then
he will deny such an offer.  That is not to say that he will do so, just a
warning to all that just because you had placed a bid you are not
necessarily going to get the item(s).

	All cash offers that are accepted, will require to send a MONEY ORDER to
the amount listed in the bid, plus three dollars additional for priority
mail (Letter envelope) for those items that will fit into such a package. 
Those items that will not will be arranged separately with the owner of the
items.  And if there are any additional bids, please remember to put the
"Bid for Traveller Items" into the subject line of your messages.  Since I
am doing this service as a favor, I will like to sort the mail correctly
and not miss any bids.

	There have been several changes to the bidding with several bids
withdrawn, so check your names and see if you still qualify.  If I have
missed any of the bids, I must apologize and
please let me know so that I may include it/them in the next posting.

Thanks,
Scott Spieker


Now that that is over with, here is the third bid list:

Understanding Traveller (2)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $10.00
Book 1 (First Edition printing) (2.5)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $10.00

Book 2 (Second Edition printing) (2.5)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $10.00

Book 3 (First Edition printing) (2.5)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $10.00

Book 4 Mercenary (2.5)
	Shawn: electric-stitch@w-link.net - $5.00

Book 5 High Guard (1.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $15
	Shawn: electric-stitch@w-link.net - $5.00

Supplement 6 76 Patrons (2)

Supplement 8 Library Data A-M (2)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $8.00

Supplement 11 Library Data N-Z (2)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $12.00
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $10

Supplement 13 Veterans (1)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $5

Supplement 4 Citizens of the Imperium (2)


Adventure 6 Expedition to Zhodane (2.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $15
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $12.00
	David asman: D.Asman@wayne.edu - $10.00

Double Adventure 5 Chamax Plague/Horde (1.5)
	Michael Kent: mkent@atlantic.net - $15.00
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #11 (2)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #13 (1.25)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #14 (2.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #16 (1.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #19 (2)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Best of the Journal #1 (4)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $15.00
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $10
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Striker Boxed Set (First Printing with all errata and supplements - MINT
CONDITION) (1)
	Scott Spieker: scspieker@ncweb.com - $20.00
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $5


All Miniatures unpainted.  Original blisters have been opened to inspect
the figures upon original purchase, but sets are complete (even with
original packaging.)
Martian Metals 15mm miniatures (in original box)
	- Imperial Marines with FGMP-14 in various poses. (13 figures with
separate support weapons)
	Fred Kiesche: FKiesche@aol.com--home & KiescheF@cowen.com--work (willing
to bid premium for entire lot of minis)
	Danny Moody: DMoody@bridge.com - $30.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $20.00
	Andrew Akins: igor@ames.net & andya@cms-gt.com - $10.00

Martian Metals 15mm Miniatures (no box)
	- Basic adventurers pack (15 miniatures)
	Danny Moody: DMoody@bridge.com - $30.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $20.00
	Andrew Akins: igor@ames.net & andya@cms-gt.com - $10.00


SPECIAL NOTE:
	Steven Hudson: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca offers 300 scotia micro armor
miniatures in trade for the following two items: Invasion Earth, and Fifth
Frontier War.  (Hey it's worth a try...)

Invasion Earth game (boxed - punched) (2.5)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $20.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $10.00
Fifth Frontier War game (boxed - punched) (2.5)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $30.00
	david asman: D.Asman@wayne.edu - $25.00
	Ewan Quibell: E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk - $25.00 (or trade for Azhanti
High Lightning)
	Juggernaut Press: pbm@gamesbymail.com - $17.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $10.00

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:29:54 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Items for Sale (Long) #4

	The owner of the items is still overwhelmed with the warm response his
items have received and is greatly appreciative of the offers.

	As a reminder, the owner of the game items is reserving the right to deny
an offer for an item if he feels that the offer is not fair enough for that
item - This is not a standard auction where the items are definately sold
to the highest bidder.  The owner believes that his collection is worth
some number, and if the offers do not fit within his acceptable range, then
he will deny such an offer.  That is not to say that he will do so, just a
warning to all that just because you had placed a bid you are not
necessarily going to get the item(s).

	All cash offers that are accepted, will require to send a MONEY ORDER to
the amount listed in the bid, plus three dollars additional for priority
mail (Letter envelope) for those items that will fit into such a package. 
Those items that will not will be arranged separately with the owner of the
items.  And if there are any additional bids, please remember to put the
"Bid for Traveller Items" into the subject line of your messages.  Since I
am doing this service as a favor, I will like to sort the mail correctly
and not miss any bids.

	I did miss some bids that had been hidden in the TML postings that I have
received.  This message is intended to rectify that oversight.  There have
been several changes to the bidding with several bids
withdrawn, so check your names and see if you still qualify.  If I have
missed any of the bids, I must apologize and
please let me know so that I may include it/them in the next posting.

Thanks,
Scott Spieker


Now that that is over with, here is the third bid list:

Understanding Traveller (2)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $10.00
Book 1 (First Edition printing) (2.5)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $10.00

Book 2 (Second Edition printing) (2.5)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $10.00

Book 3 (First Edition printing) (2.5)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $10.00

Book 4 Mercenary (2.5)
	Shawn: electric-stitch@w-link.net - $5.00

Book 5 High Guard (1.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $15
	Shawn: electric-stitch@w-link.net - $5.00

Supplement 6 76 Patrons (2)

Supplement 8 Library Data A-M (2)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $8.00

Supplement 11 Library Data N-Z (2)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $12.00
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $10

Supplement 13 Veterans (1)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $5

Supplement 4 Citizens of the Imperium (2)


Adventure 6 Expedition to Zhodane (2.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $15
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $12.00
	David asman: D.Asman@wayne.edu - $10.00

Double Adventure 5 Chamax Plague/Horde (1.5)
	Michael Kent: mkent@atlantic.net - $15.00
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #11 (2)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #13 (1.25)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #14 (2.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #16 (1.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #19 (2)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Best of the Journal #1 (4)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $15.00
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $10
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Striker Boxed Set (First Printing with all errata and supplements - MINT
CONDITION) (1)
	Thom Harris thomharr@mediaone.net - $30.00
	Scott Spieker: scspieker@ncweb.com - $20.00
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $5


All Miniatures unpainted.  Original blisters have been opened to inspect
the figures upon original purchase, but sets are complete (even with
original packaging.)
Martian Metals 15mm miniatures (in original box)
	- Imperial Marines with FGMP-14 in various poses. (13 figures with
separate support weapons)
	Fred Kiesche: FKiesche@aol.com--home & KiescheF@cowen.com--work (willing
to bid premium for entire lot of minis)
	Thom Harris thomharr@mediaone.net - $40.00
	Danny Moody: DMoody@bridge.com - $30.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $20.00
	Andrew Akins: igor@ames.net & andya@cms-gt.com - $10.00

Martian Metals 15mm Miniatures (no box)
	- Basic adventurers pack (15 miniatures)
	Thom Harris thomharr@mediaone.net - $40.00
	Danny Moody: DMoody@bridge.com - $30.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $20.00
	Andrew Akins: igor@ames.net & andya@cms-gt.com - $10.00


SPECIAL NOTE:
	Steven Hudson: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca offers 300 scotia micro armor
miniatures in trade for the following two items: Invasion Earth, and Fifth
Frontier War.  (Hey it's worth a try...)

Invasion Earth game (boxed - punched) (2.5)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $20.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $10.00
Fifth Frontier War game (boxed - punched) (2.5)
	Thom Harris thomharr@mediaone.net - $40.00
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $30.00
	david asman: D.Asman@wayne.edu - $25.00
	Ewan Quibell: E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk - $25.00 (or trade for Azhanti
High Lightning)
	Juggernaut Press: pbm@gamesbymail.com - $17.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $10.00

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:41:44 +0800
From: David Crew <crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: MT Ship Combat (LONG)

There have been some questions regarding spaceship combat in the MT system
so I thought I would share a system I have used successfully in my own
campaign.  The emphasis is on role-playing rather than war-gaming so it is
really only suited to ships < 1000 tons (so no meson weapons and few
screens) and no more than 1 or 2 a side.  It is designed for TL 10-15 ships.

David Crew
MT Ref (1118 Trojan Reach)
crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au

__________________________________

Spaceship Combat in Megatraveller

(This system takes what I believe are the best elements of the SSCS, RPSSCS
and the Mega-traveller system in the Referees Manual.  Therefore some
credit goes to the designers of those systems for ideas.)

The Tactics Pools.

Tactics Pools are roving DM's which can be used on any task (by either
side) during any round of combat.  There are two tactics pools - the fleet
pool and the ship pool.  The fleet pool can be used for DM's on any combat
task.  The ship pool can be used on any combat task by or against that
ship.  If there is only one ship on a side these will be the same thing.
The fleet pool is equal to the total of one sides participants fleet
tactics.  The ship pool of a ship is the total of that ship's crew's ship
tactics (RB tactics = ship tactics minus 1) plus the current computer model
number of that ship.  A DM on any one task can never exceed +/- 8.

Ranges

There are five ranges in this system and they determine hit difficulty
profiles.  The ranges are:

Boarding (Very long or below)
Short (planetary or below)
Long (far orbit)
Out of Weapons range (Extreme Orbit but still in sensor range)
Out of Sensor Range (beyond Extreme Orbit)

A ship may not be at boarding range to another ship unless one of the ships
is disabled (unable to move).

1) Surprise.

Surprise is determined by the attacking side as a task:

To determine if the attacking side has surprise:
Difficulty, Leader, Sensor Ops (confrontation)
Referee: The task difficulty will depend on the exact situation involved
but is assumed by default to be Difficult.  On a failure both sides detect
each other.  On a fumble the defending side has surprise instead.

The benefit of surprise is that the side with surprise can have a round of
combat in which the surprised side may not react.  If surprise is not lost
then this may continue.  Surprise is lost by hitting a unit without
rendering it inoperative, activating active sensors or failing the
following task:

To determine if surprise is retained:
Difficult, Leader, Sensor Ops (confrontation)
Referee: Retaining surprise can represent the fact that an attack was not
detected or that the surprising ship has not been detected yet.  Play as
best fits the situation.

2) Combat Round.

a) Determine Initiative

Initiative is determined by rolling the following task for the PCs.

To determine if the PC's have initiative:
Routine, Leader, Fleet tactics (or ship tactics if only one ship)
(confrontation)
Referee: A marginal success (exactly 7 rolled after DM's) gives intiative
to the side with the highest fleet tactics (or ship tactics if only one
ship) skill.  If this is equal roll again.

b) Movement

Each ship on the side without initiative decides if it will close, maintain
or increase the range.  Each ship on the side with initiative then decides
the same.  Any ship without maneuver drives cannot move and fails all
movement tasks.  If the two choices are compatible then movement occurs.
e.g. if both sides decide to close the range then the range closes.
If the choices are incompatible then roll this task for the side with
initiative:

To determine the outcome of movement:
Routine, Pilot or Ship's Boat (as appropriate), Maneuver Drive Rating
(confrontation)
Referee: Success at this task allows the side with initiative to determine
movement for that round.  Failure allows the side without initiative to
determine movement for the round.

Multiple Ships: If there are multiple ships per side decide movement for
each ship seperately.  This will necessitate keeping records of the range
of each ship to every other ship.  Ships may operate as a squadron taking
the best pilot and worst maneuver drive rating in the squadron and only one
ships tactics pool.

c) Sensor Lock

Ships which lost initiative declare their sensor status (active or
passive).  Ships which gained intiative declare their sensor status.

A Sensor lock is automatically gained by any ship with a passive array on
any ship using active sensors.  Active sensors effectively light the ship
up like a lightbulb but make getting a lock to another ship easier and
retaining one automatic.

To gain a lock on to a ship which is not using active sensors is a two step
process:

To scan a ship which is not using active sensors:
Difficulty, Sensor Ops
Referee: The difficulty is the most favourable sensor scan difficulty level
from the unit's UCP.  There is a DM of -2 at long range.

To pinpoint a ship which is not using active sensors:
Difficulty, Sensor Ops
Referee: The difficulty is the most favorable sensor pinpoint difficulty
level from the units UCP.  There is a DM of -2 at long range.

General Notes on Sensor Tasks:
i) An EMS jammer prevents active sensors (including RADAR and LADAR) of
equal or lesser range being used for any task but allows an automatic scan
success for a passive array.
ii) EMM raises the difficulty one level for all passive array tasks
(neutrino sensors and densitometers work normally).

If a scan is obtained but not a pinpoint weapons may be fired at one higher
difficulty level.  If a pinpoint or scan is obtained with active sensors
the lock or scan is retained into future combat rounds provided active
sensors are used and the target remains inside weapons range.  If a scan is
obtained with passive sensors it remains unless the target leaves sensor
range.  If a pinpoint is obtained with passive sensors it is lost at the
end of the combat round.

d) Fire

One ship on the side with initiative fires first, then firing alternates
between sides until all ships have fired.  Firing ships may leave weapon
batteries in reserve for defensive firing at missiles (lasers only) or for
return fire (step e).  If a weapon has been used in defense it may not be
used in attack.

To determine if a firing battery hits:
Difficulty, Off: Weapon UCP, Gunnery, Range DM Def: Agility, Pilot or
Ship's Boat as appropriate
Referee: Range DM is:
	+1 for missiles at long range
	-1 for lasers at long range
	+1 for energy weapons at short range (cannot hit at long range)
	-1 for meson weapons at long range

The Difficulty of this task is Difficult at long range and Routine at short
range.

To determine if a hitting battery penetrates defenses:
Routine, Off: Weapon UCP, Gunnery, Def: Defense UCP, Gunnery
Referee: Missiles have an offensive DM of +1 vs Sandcasters.  Energy
Weapons have an offensive DM of +2.  The only possible defenses are:
	Sandcasters vs Missiles or Beams (energy or laser)
	Lasers vs Missiles
Each defense can only be used against one attack.

Damage is equal to the UCP of the weapon, minus 1 for every 3 full armour
factors above 40 (it is possible to score 0 points of damage) minus 1 if
hitting a target at long range.  Meson weapons ignore armour but damage is
reduced by 1 for every UCP of meson screen present.  Nuclear missile damage
is reduced by 1 for every UCP of nuclear damper present.  For every damage
point which penetrates armour scored above (disp/100) the weapon scores one
critical hit (Megatraveller Referee's Manual) and reduces armour by 1 for
each point (a VERY good time to use those Tactical pools...).  Damage is
rolled on the standard Megatraveller damage tables, with the change that
Weapon-n reduces the UCP of one weapon by n rather than destroying the
whole weapon.  Spinal mounts roll at +6 on the table, nuclear missiles at
+6 on the surface explosions table, pulse lasers at +2.

(NB: I use the damage descriptions from the RPSSCS to allow the PC's to
repair damage, cope with fuel leaks etc.  I have also changed die roll 6 on
the Surface Explosions table to 'Sensor-1' which destroys one of the ships
sensors (active, passive, neutrino or densitometer).)

e) Return Fire

Return fire is conducted as step d) but allows any ship which was fired on
to automatically fire with a lock on to any ship which fired on it.  Only
weapons not fired during step d) may fire during this step.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:17:04 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Analog Xenophonts

Joe Petit Wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Oh, yes, the common ground with humanity...it struck me that these
> creatures would be astounded by something we do every day. All their
> communication is presented as whole concepts, you know where someone is
> going as soon as they "speak". But when a human talks, she can present a
> series of words that go in an unexpected direction - this amazes them. I
> think we call it "telling a joke".
>

I wouldn't be so certain that they could even hear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'm giving them some vibration-sensing capabilites, but not a true auditory 
sense. To communicate with auditory/verbal creatures, these xenos will have 
to use a translator setup - I envisioned an artificial "eye" the critter 
wears around it's abdomen (where it can see it), a translator converts 
sounds into very, very basic color whorls. The xeno would probably speak 
through a vodor box of some sort.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:52:24 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

Ian or Kats wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
True, but there is armour impregnable to certain weapons. Lasers are the
most effective weapon for small craft at combat ranges (30 000km and up),
and lasers are limited in output by TL. It isnt particularily difficult to
build a warship that will take only surface damage against lasers.

It's an interesting concept. See if you can make it work using FFS2.

Ian Whitchurch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was recalling how a bunch of ground troops with portable lasers took out 
some attacking spacecraft in Heinlein's _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ - As 
the spacecraft was on final approach, they washed the whole hull with laser 
weapons. Every sensor array on the ship was blinded, then burnt out - I 
guess the idea was that if it was sensitive enough to provide information 
to the ship, it was sensitive enough to be vulnerable to a laser beam. This 
gave the attacking spacecraft a choice, either surrender and have Luna 
Control guide it to a landing or fly blind and smack into something at a 
tiny, but still way too big fraction of C. I guess rolling down the window 
and sticking your head out to look around was unwise.

Made me wonder how easy it is to kill the sensors on a warship - force it 
to retire by blinding it. How vulnerable are radar, ladar, neutrino 
detectors, gravitometers and whatnot? Would the chance of inflicting such 
catastrophic blindness on a battleship be the best thing a fighter squadron 
could hope for, even be the mission they trained for?  Or are there so many 
backups (every turret with it's own emitter, for example) that completely 
blinding the ship is unlikely in a span of one combat? I recall The T4 
Naval Architecht's Handbook mentioning turret gunner positions located on 
the outer hull of the ship, to allow for visual targeting in extreme 
situations.

"Tango Leader, there's no way our laser cannon will crack that 
battlewagon!"
"Affirmative Tango Five. Tango Flight, concentrate all fire on their 
forward sensor array..."



Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:53:58 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Analog Xenophonts

Walter G. Smith wrote:

> Joe Petit Wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > Oh, yes, the common ground with humanity...it struck me that these
> > creatures would be astounded by something we do every day. All their
> > communication is presented as whole concepts, you know where someone is
> > going as soon as they "speak". But when a human talks, she can present a
> > series of words that go in an unexpected direction - this amazes them. I
> > think we call it "telling a joke".
> >
>
> I wouldn't be so certain that they could even hear.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I'm giving them some vibration-sensing capabilites, but not a true auditory
> sense. To communicate with auditory/verbal creatures, these xenos will have
> to use a translator setup - I envisioned an artificial "eye" the critter
> wears around it's abdomen (where it can see it), a translator converts
> sounds into very, very basic color whorls. The xeno would probably speak
> through a vodor box of some sort.

They could have a monocle arangement instead of an earpiece.  The spoken
language would be so imprecise.  The monocle could then receive vibrations and
translate them into images for the xenophonts to read.  The small area and
shorter bandwidth of the monocle works fine for the more imprecise spoken
language.  The big problem comes when the xenophont talks back.  Volumes and
volumes of their speach would come out with mere blinking.  This would give
them the reputation of being blowhards or eloquent speech makers, which depends
on your social standing :-)

I would imagine that the first contact with this species was difficult.  They
might be able to learn written language first and then rely on voice to text
data translators.

Regarding their world view, I think alot depends on whether or not there is a
hive mind. If they have a balkanized hive mind, then war would be rampant, just
like ant colonies.  If there is a unified world hive mind then war and combat
would be completely alien to them. They all understand everyone's point of view
so they can't get so much of a difference of opinion to fight.  That's not to
say they can't be violent.  If they are the predators of their world they might
be quite decent hunters and killers.  However military wise, weaponry would be
designed around hunting not mass destruction.

Their "shades of gray" mentality would make tech advancements very slow.
Focusing on one thing would be anathema.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:02:53 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

> Made me wonder how easy it is to kill the sensors on a warship - force it
> to retire by blinding it. How vulnerable are radar, ladar, neutrino
> detectors, gravitometers and whatnot? Would the chance of inflicting such
> catastrophic blindness on a battleship be the best thing a fighter squadron
> could hope for, even be the mission they trained for?  Or are there so many
> backups (every turret with it's own emitter, for example) that completely
> blinding the ship is unlikely in a span of one combat? I recall The T4
> Naval Architecht's Handbook mentioning turret gunner positions located on
> the outer hull of the ship, to allow for visual targeting in extreme
> situations.

I think they're doing that sort of laser blinding now.  But as far as disabling
sensors here's a "hand wave" defense measure.  You surround your ship with a
plasma field.  When a targeting ladar hits the ship, the plasma field
discharges down the laser, disabling the ladar.  I'm sure there's all sorts of
problems with implementing this, but it does throw a little fear into gunners.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:31:01 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Analog Xenophonts

Joe Petit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Regarding their world view, I think alot depends on whether or not there is 
a
hive mind. If they have a balkanized hive mind, then war would be rampant, 
just
like ant colonies.  If there is a unified world hive mind then war and 
combat
would be completely alien to them. They all understand everyone's point of 
view
so they can't get so much of a difference of opinion to fight.  That's not 
to
say they can't be violent.  If they are the predators of their world they 
might
be quite decent hunters and killers.  However military wise, weaponry would 
be
designed around hunting not mass destruction.

Their "shades of gray" mentality would make tech advancements very slow.
Focusing on one thing would be anathema.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't picture them as much a "Hive Mind" as a race that understands each 
other very, very well - I imagined two of them looking at each other and 
exchanging information similar to what we'd exchange with a good friend 
during an hour conversation, except that they could do it in a few seconds 
to any other xenophont.  I imagine their race's idea of consensus would 
make our Amish look like bar-room brawlers...and I wonder what kind of 
conformity standards would be common to these creatures.

As to tech advancements, this is the touchy one. Ever hear of the sci-fi 
story where Earth was invaded by musket-toting aliens? The idea was that 
our world view led to chemistry, metallurgy, physics, etc, while a slightly 
different world view produced a technology that was crippled in these 
fields but developed hyperdrive at around TL 3...are there fields where the 
analog views of these xenophonts would give them advantages?

I see them as possible diplomats - they start out intuitively accepting a 
connection between themselves and the sentient they are meeting with, no 
matter how alien.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #209
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 23 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 210



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
re: Analog Xenophonts
Bipeds can't hack it!
Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #209
Re: Tethers and Satellite article in New Scientist
laser guided bombs
Re: Someone PLEASE HELP me UNSUBSCRIBE
Re: Templars
fixed wind vs. rotary
quiz
Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage
Re: Trade Classifications
Re: Zhodani Secret Gelding Grip(tm)
Re: Tethers and Satellite article in New Scientist
Re: Sub-Orbital Vehicles

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:38:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

 
> Made me wonder how easy it is to kill the sensors on a warship - force it 
> to retire by blinding it. How vulnerable are radar, ladar, neutrino 
> detectors, gravitometers and whatnot? Would the chance of inflicting such 
> catastrophic blindness on a battleship be the best thing a fighter squadron 
> could hope for, even be the mission they trained for?  Or are there so many 
> backups (every turret with it's own emitter, for example) that completely 
> blinding the ship is unlikely in a span of one combat? I recall The T4 
> Naval Architecht's Handbook mentioning turret gunner positions located on 
> the outer hull of the ship, to allow for visual targeting in extreme 
> situations.
 
I think that killing sensors is a legitimate "tactic" in most
iterations of traveller. I quoted out tactic because that level of
aimed shots usually doesn't apply, but the end result does.

In HG/MT, scrubbing surface features off the hull to soften a target
up for spinal fire was normal. I'd say that had sensors been in the
mix, they'd be toast, too. Any decent combat system should allow for
this, even if they aren't aimed shots (PCs are a special case,
though, they can aim where they want :-)

There will be numerous back up sensors on large military ships, but
these systems are extremely fragile and will end up getting knocked
out.

Fighters trying this would fire missiles, perhaps "shotgun" KKMs
that spread many (millions?) bearing balls at the target. Sure, the
dame will be small, but it could be effective. Don't drive your
torpedo boat (aka fighter) too close though, that's very dangerous
work.

- -merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:15:49 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

>> Oops! Just happen to notice on page p 15 of T4 that character stats can
range
>> from 1 to 15. Funny how these little things slide right on by you even
after
>> repeated readings....  :)
>
>Well, I guess thats it then... Check again for that 2 point increase rule.
And
>look for that -1 on starting rolls. I wouldn't think they'd change that from
>system to system. Probably a typo.

No, I've scoured the section on chargen word for word this time, and no
mention
either of a -1 on starting rolls or a 2 point increase rule. CT didn't have
such a
rule, and I would suppose that with T4 being described as an improved CT
that it makes sense that it wouldn't have it either.

Thanks for your assist! I never played and haven't seen *any* of the TNE 
stuff, so that's very interesting info for me!

**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:25:30 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

>>From thee charts for T4.1
>
>SOCIAL STANDING
>	Soc	Equivalent
>	0	
>	1	
>	2	Dregs of Society
>	3	Lower Low Class
>	4	Middle Low Class
>	5	Upper Low Class
>	6	Lower Middle Class
>	7	Middle Class
>	8	Upper Middle Class
>	9	Lower Upper Class
>	A	Middle Upper Class
>	B	Upper Upper Class
>	C	Remarkable
>	D	Extraordinary
>	E	Extreme
>	F	
>Social Standing indicates social class and the level of society from which
the
>character comes.
>
>NOBLE TITLES
>	The Imperium issues noble titles which are reflected in personal social
>standing.
>	B	Knight.
>	C	Baron.
>	D	Marquis.
>	E	Count.
>	F	Duke.
>	There are ranks above F, but the system generally reserves them for non-
>player characters.
>	G	Archduke
>	H	Emperor
>
>SUPPORT
>	Social standing determines the cost to that individual for basic living.
>	Cr250 x Soc = Typical cost of monthly support (food, clothes, lodging, basic
>entertainment).

Thanks, Marc! So PCs can go up to 15 in their stats still...good, saves a
little
bit of recoding there  :)

Non-Trav question: Would you happen to know who owns the rights to
the GDW game _Belter_? I have a project where I am converting the map
and counters to bitmaps to be used with the V_Map program, and would
like to get permission to post them on the V_Map web site. You and Frank
Chadwick are listed as the designers, did one of you get the rights when GDW
splashed, or did someone else assume them?

Thanks!

**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 02:15:44 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: re: Analog Xenophonts

>I don't picture them as much a "Hive Mind" as a race that understands each 
>other very, very well - I imagined two of them looking at each other and 
>exchanging information similar to what we'd exchange with a good friend 
>during an hour conversation, except that they could do it in a few seconds 
>to any other xenophont.  I imagine their race's idea of consensus would 
>make our Amish look like bar-room brawlers...and I wonder what kind of 
>conformity standards would be common to these creatures.

But don't fall into the cliche of near-perfect understanding leading to near-
perfect harmony. I imagine that two opposed xenophonts could exchange
vitriol and hatred for one another and each other's ideas in seconds that
might take us hours of impassioned argument. Can you imagine what kind of 
insults you can get across to the other person when an thought-whirl not only
carries your opinions on their ideas, but also where they can stick them, what
you think of their parentage, their country, their race, their breath, what
sort of
bizarre sexual peccadillos you believe they have, the fact that they eat corn,
etc., all in one message. Makes the Hollywood Drill Instructor look like a 
wussy!

>As to tech advancements, this is the touchy one. Ever hear of the sci-fi 
>story where Earth was invaded by musket-toting aliens? The idea was that 
>our world view led to chemistry, metallurgy, physics, etc, while a slightly 
>different world view produced a technology that was crippled in these 
>fields but developed hyperdrive at around TL 3...are there fields where the 
>analog views of these xenophonts would give them advantages?

I've never read that story, but have heard the idea discussed on the TML
before and really do like the concept of alternative technology trees if you
will, where our discovery of electromagnetism and concept of it led to a
certain technology path, whereas a race that never discovered EM but in-
stead followed through on the concept of the Ether has an entirely different
technology available to them, and neither can really use the other's tech-
nology because discovering one precludes the other. It really fits the 
quantum idea of the results gained being dependent on the expectations
of the viewer into a cosmological view.

>I see them as possible diplomats - they start out intuitively accepting a 
>connection between themselves and the sentient they are meeting with, no 
>matter how alien.

Sounds fine, I just am wary of the descriptions of other sophonts as 
fitting a type. Traveller tends to be as guilty of this as any other sci-fi
setting, Aslan are samurai with fur, Solomani are war-mongering 
xenophobic racists, etc. Just smacks to much of the "All Jews are...", 
"All Blacks are...", "Whitey always..." type of arguments you hear 
now, just blown up to a planetary scale. I prefer to *try* (though I'm 
often guilty of it as well) and not group my aliens into homogenous
stereotypes.

Except the French and Vargr, of course, we ALL know what they're
like  :-)


**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:29:13 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Bipeds can't hack it!

>Subject: Re: jump vs stutterwarp
...
>>The major vs minor thing is mainly propaganda anyway, IMO. Quite a few of
>>us suspect none of the "major" races independently invented the jump drive.

snip <Reasoned, plausible explanations for failure of inferior races
to develop Jump-drive without relics left over by Elder Things>
...
>I'm not sure about the K'Kree, but I looked at a unified timeline last night,
>and their race is extremely old, so they had plenty of time to do it on their
>own if they did.

  Two-legs Baa-aa-aad, Four(+) legs Good! (/enough to develop Jump...)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:48:29 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

On Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:38:43 -0700 (MST), Merrick Burkhardt wrote:

> > Made me wonder how easy it is to kill the sensors on a warship - force it 
> > to retire by blinding it. How vulnerable are radar, ladar, neutrino 
> > detectors, gravitometers and whatnot? Would the chance of inflicting such 
> > catastrophic blindness on a battleship be the best thing a fighter squadron 
> > could hope for, even be the mission they trained for?  Or are there so many 
> > backups (every turret with it's own emitter, for example) that completely 
> > blinding the ship is unlikely in a span of one combat? I recall The T4 
> > Naval Architecht's Handbook mentioning turret gunner positions located on 
> > the outer hull of the ship, to allow for visual targeting in extreme 
> > situations.
>  
> I think that killing sensors is a legitimate "tactic" in most
> iterations of traveller. I quoted out tactic because that level of
> aimed shots usually doesn't apply, but the end result does.
> 
> In HG/MT, scrubbing surface features off the hull to soften a target
> up for spinal fire was normal. I'd say that had sensors been in the
> mix, they'd be toast, too. Any decent combat system should allow for
> this, even if they aren't aimed shots (PCs are a special case,
> though, they can aim where they want :-)

But then this same tactic would make missiles literally obsolete, since
their sensors would have to be exposed to laserfire as well.  Hmmmm...

Visual sensors would be the only ones that would be particularly
susceptible to lasers, since they share a common medium (ie: light).
Perhaps some sort of fast acting, liquid-crystal shutters could be used to
protect the sensors long enough for a more robust defense to be activated?
Or maybe not :)

Things like densitometers and gravity detectors could be buried behind
protective armour, since I do not believe their proximity to the surface of
a ship is necessary for them to function.

> There will be numerous back up sensors on large military ships, but
> these systems are extremely fragile and will end up getting knocked
> out.

The back-up sensors could easily exist inside armoured bays and only expose
themselves when needed.  Likewise, since lasers will probably use fixed
frequencies to deliver damage, "filters" may exist by TL12+ that can act as
"armour" against a particular frequency while allowing others to pass
through unhindered.  Such filters would have to be easily replaceable,
since one hit would do enough damage to make seeing through one impossible
anyways (but the sensors themselves would survive).





James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:18:58 +1100
From: Craig John Brain <cjbrain@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #209

unsubscribe traveller-digest

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:11:55 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Tethers and Satellite article in New Scientist

"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:

>I'm curious.  Is this Robert Forward the Robert Forward of Dragon's Egg?

Hmm. Doesn't say in the article...

You mean it could all be fantasy? :-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:05:52 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: laser guided bombs

Mikko types:
><sarcasm>
>But, in the era of smart  bombs, the question is irrevelant. The almighty
>U.S.A.F. can put the bomb through the ventilation shafts of the ammo dump,
>the building next to it doesn't get a scratch.
>Like in Iraq, with B-52s...
></sarcasm>

    To be honest, the B-52s, while capable of launching cruise missles,
were not dropping smart bombs.  They were carpet bombing military targets.  

    If the building next to the ammo dump doesn't get a scratch, then it
wasn't much of an ammo dump.


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------
eclipse@ultranet.com - Opinion stated are mine -
http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse
Ohnosecond - That miniscule fraction of time in which you realize that
you've just 
made a BIG mistake. Seen in Elizabeth P. Crowe's book The Electronic
Traveller.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:18:16 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Someone PLEASE HELP me UNSUBSCRIBE

"Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu> types out:
>Subject: Re: Someone PLEASE HELP me UNSUBSCRIBE
>kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) writes:
>>David Golden wrote:
>>>        REALLY????? Where can I find such a member of the opposite sex?
I like
>>>them tall, well educated, intelligent, non-anorexic figure, and preferably
>>>not too ditzy.
>   You've just described Paula Poundstone...   

     You aren't helping.  Paula used to (and may still have) as part of her
act, her explaination that she just doesn't understand all the hoopla about
this sex thing.  It just doesn't do it for her.

ob-trav:  The goals of the typical Traveller adventurer don't match up with
the average imperial citizen.   They commonly echo the feelings of one
Bilbo Baggins when approached for an adventure.




- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot 
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:34:12 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@Alaska.NET>
Subject: Re: Templars

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote

> Peter Newman revealed:
> 
> >At this time I would like to apologize for
> >introducing numerology (in the form of the Darmine faith) into our
> >Traveller discussions.  Kenji seems to have taken to it _too_ well,
> >possibly his writing about the Sayat is just a cover for his true
> >Darmine beliefs.
> 
> Bah!  Unmasked so soon!  I suppose it was only a matter of time.  But
> surely someone was bound to recognize the meta-alchemical dialectical
> significance of disguising the green/blue hair of the Darmine as the red
> skin of the Sayat.

So if Sayat have red skin, use reindeer, and are Communists, does this
mean that Santa Claus is actually a Sayat agent trying to undermine
capatilism by flooding our economy with free Christmas presents ?


>  I knew the secret was bound to leak out...

> >Destroyer = 4 + 5 + 19 + 20 +18 +15 +25 + 5 + 18 = 129
> >                1 + 2 + 9 = 12
> >                1 + 2 = 3
> >
> >Which is not significant

> Uh, hold on a second.  I think you're OBLIGED, at this point, to analyze
> the significance of the rest of the Imperial Navy at this point.
> Otherwise, how can we call this objective science?

Objective science ?  Numerology is one of the most unscientific things
out there, please don't tell the Darmine though you will only hurt their
feelings (and depending on the local legal system possibly end up in a
duel). - Peter

> 
> >Templar = 20 + 5 + 13 + 16 + 12 + 1 + 18 = 85
> >                8 + 5 = 13
> >                1 + 3 + 4
> >Which, obviously, is significant
> 
> Could you run Ine Givar and SolSec past the Telorans, too?

Ine  = 9 + 14 +5 = 28
	2 + 8 = 1

Givar = 7 + 9 + 22 + 1 + 18 = 57
	5 + 7 = 12
	1 + 2 = 3

	1 + 3 = 4

So they are obviously significant.

SolSec = 19 + 15 + 12 + 19 + 5 + 3 = 73
	7 + 3 = 10
	1 + 0 = 1

Thus we can see that while the Templars may control the Ine Givar they
do not control SolSec.  it seems likely to me that the Templar
controlled Ine Givar are using the Ine Givar to stir up trouble & commit
acts of terrorism to increase popular Imperial support for high levels
of Imperial military presence in the Spinward Marches.  The Spinward
Marches contain Five Sisters Subsector which is, as we all know, the
mystical center of the known universe.  No doubt the Templars want lots
of ships present to control this area.  The question we need to be
asking ourselves is are the Templars trying to protect us from the
unspeakable Lovecraftian horrors which will soom break free into this
dimension or are they merely trying to be the dominant power in the
region so that _they_ can decide who to sacrifice, in hideous ways, to
these monsters ?

Don't ever let anyone tell you that it is just a lucky astrographic
coincidence, combinded with hard work on Norris part, that The Regency
was able to avoid Virus.  Obviously something within the Regency is so
horrible that even Virus dared not go there.  

"Since we have proven that SolSec, and thus the Solomani government that
it is the puppet master of, is not controlled by the Templars we have to
wonder which branch of The Conspiracy is controlling the Solomani. 
Obviously it is the Bavarian Illuminati.  Did you ever wonder _why_ the
Solomani rebelled ?  Canonical sources claim that it was due to
"cultural differences".  I will now reveal the extent of these "cultural
differences".  The Solomani wanted to print their own money with the
traditional design of their secret masters, the Eye in the Pyramid, on
it.  The Templar controlled Imperium could not allow this because this
would mean that every cash commercial transaction would rip a little
power from the beings conducting it and transfer it to The Bavarian
Illuminati.

 (Did you ever wonder why the ZHodani have strong psychic powers and
the  Hivers have noe (or so they say) obviously the design of Zhodani
money creates a positive feedback loop for psychic powers while the
design of Hiver money creates a negative feedback loop for it.  More
proof of the fact that Zhodani psychic powers are caused by the mystical
nature of their money system can be seen in the fact that it is the
Zhodani upper classes, who have and handle more money, who have the
psychic powers)

Therefore the Solomani rebelled.  After rebelling the Solomani Sphere
created its own money with, naturally enough, the Eye in the Pyramid on
the back.  The Imperial government was busy at this time fighting off
other mystical attacks and could not respond until The Solomani Rim
War.  In 1014 shortly after the conclusion of this war thee Imperial
government redesigned the credit.  Ostensibly this was done to reduce
the possibility of counterfitting the them TL 14 credit with the
superior technology of the emerging TL 15 worlds but I think we know
better than that."

An Illuminated History of the Third Imperium, Nahnci dehah Hinrath, 
Institute For The Consideration Of The Truths Telor Commented Upon
Press, Ishag/Zarushagar, 1111

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:58:55 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: fixed wind vs. rotary

Harold Writes:
>   It would be, except that the truth is even more bizarre.  The Army for
>years had fixed wing aircraft (and still might, my info is a little dated).
>They were strictly used for observation and were unarmed.  At various points
>the Army tried to get armed, fixed wing aircraft but the projects
>were--sorry for the pun--shot down by the Air Force.  A few years back the
>Air Force finally offered up its fleet of aging A-10s to the Army, which
>said thanks but no thanks (sort of like the way you turn down the offer of a
>1985 Jaguar with 500,000 km, noticeable rust, and an unexplained fluid leak).

     It was also a case of the Army lacking the infrastructure.  The Army's
helicopters and light aircraft don't require long runways.  Not only would
they have to maintain the aging aircraft, they would have to build new
runways, and maintain them.


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------
eclipse@ultranet.com - Opinion stated are mine -
http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse
Ohnosecond - That miniscule fraction of time in which you realize that
you've just 
made a BIG mistake. Seen in Elizabeth P. Crowe's book The Electronic
Traveller.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:48:23 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: quiz

At last a subject I know something about!  I may be out of my depth on
meson guns and I *really* did try to get to grips with FF&S2 over the
weekend (anyone done an 'idiot's guide' yet.?), but 'Englishness' - there's
something I know a little about!



Don't know if you got all the answers yet (I think I saw the first two
correctly answered), but these are they in case they've been missed:

1) A brolly is an umbrella and fairly common usage; my dictionary gives
'gamp' as an umbrella too but I've *never* heard this used.  Nor have I
read Dickens' _Martin Chuzzlewit_ from where it's supposed to come.  (Mrs
Sarah Gamp)

2) A busby is tall fur hat that you might be familiar with from the guards
at Buckingham Palace.  (I confess to not knowing that it had a bag hanging
on it's right side, nor that the word's possibly from the Hungarian).

3) If you're born within sound of Bow bells you'd be a Cockney.  (And in
theory then have a 'peculiar' English accent and a rhyming slang all your
own!)

Hope this helps, hope you win.

tc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:03:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Fuel Tankage

In mail you write:

> At 05:22 22/02/98 PST, you wrote:
>>Don't forget the *sub*-orbital ideas, like the SpaceCub. If that makes
>>it into production, once it's been proven by enough flights, expect to
>>see Fed-Ex and UPS buying them. They give 30 minute "hop" times with
>>about 1000 km cross-range. Which means you can have one *hour* package
>>delivery between many cities on both coasts, and some in the midwest.
>>
>>Scale them up some more and you have Heinlein's "antipodal shuttles".
>>And at that point they are also good for some SSTO work.
>>
>>-- 
>>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>
>
> Would those SpaceCub and other suborbitol shuttles get extremely hot.
> So would not there be a waiting period before they cool down.

The croosrange is limited by the need to keep the skin temp down. As I
recall, they wanted to avoid really exotic materials, so the max hull
temp is under 1000 degrees. The hull titanium. It'll cool pretty fast
on the way down from airflow.

Also, *being* sub-orbital, they reach orbital *altitudes, but not
orbital *velocities*. So they won't get as hot to begin with.

> Does not the SpaceShuttle need to cool down after landing, in order 
> for a safe exit by the crew to be made.  

Nope. Instead, what they need to do is pump a lot of cool air into the
Shuttle *or* get the crew out fast. The outer hull isn't very hot, but
the shuttle itself has no means on *internal* cooling after it lands
(nor any power!) 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:14:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Trade Classifications

In mail you write:

>> > In a slightly related note... Since Barren (Ba) worlds have 0 population
>> > wouldn't they all be Low Population (Lo) worlds (pop 4-). And if this is
>> > true, should the Lo classification be ignored as the Va classification
>> > is ignored on As worlds?
>>
>> Well, Ba seems to me to be a special case. *Who* do you plan on trading
>> *with*? With a population *that* low, you are essentially going to be
>> negotiating with an NPC, whih means that the trade tables go right out
>> the airlock.
>
> It isn't a matter of trading TO a barren world, there isn't anybody to sell
> to. Its a matter of selling goods FROM a  barren world. The reason I'm asking
> is for a spreadsheet I'm working on that calculates profit margins between
> worlds.

Same problem. You are either obtaining the trade item *yourself* or you
are cutting a deal for it with what amounts to an NPC.

To put it in perspective, name me a "trade item" from a land mass on
earth that qualifies as "barren". 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:29:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Zhodani Secret Gelding Grip(tm)

In mail you write:

>>>Remind me sometime to tell you (and your Sayat friends) about the Zhodani
>>>Secret Gelding Grip(tm)...you might find it entertaining.

<snip>

> THe ZSGG is a running gag in some of the campaigns I participated in
> over the years, originating in the old Star Trek TV show where Spock
> says" I instinctively used the Vulcan Death Grip."

> I would get in some tight spot in D&D or Cthulhu or SHadowrun or
> whatever, and announce that I was using the Something Something grip,
> tailored to the individual situation. Gradually it came to be
> accompanied by an impromptu explanation ("Well, you let your
> thumbnail grow real real long, and..." "Well, it involves a rubber
> band the size and shape of a Cheerio, which is placed..."

And where did *you* find out about those (quite real) rubber bands? :-)

> "You take a linoleum knife and..." 

Gelding knives only *look* like linoleum knives!

> "Teeth and claws are used to..."

> The actual details were never revealed, sad to say...they are best
> left to the imagination anyway.

Reminds me of the quite common scene where a "bad guy" goes into a room
where a captive is being interrogated, carrying a teaspoon. Horrible
screams are heard, and he emerges with the info.

I finally ran into a book where the author explained the use of the
teaspoon. It was pretty obvious in retrospect, but still good for a
shudder. And no, you'll have to figure it out on your own!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:17:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Tethers and Satellite article in New Scientist

In mail you write:

> I'm curious.  Is this Robert Forward the Robert Forward of Dragon's Egg?

Sounds like it. Forward uses tethers a *lot* in his SF and has written
about them in several articles.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:25:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sub-Orbital Vehicles

In mail you write:

> On 02/22/98 at 02:33 PM,  Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com> said:
>
>>Would those SpaceCub and other suborbitol shuttles get extremely hot. So
>>would not there be a waiting period before they cool down.
>
> Their skins would get quite hot, that's for sure, but I don't think there
> would be a long waiting period before they cool down, and besides we're
> talking about a turnaround of several hours, maybe a day, not thirty
> minutes.

As I recall, the goal for turnaround time is an hour. They have
modified the designs somewhat to go after a prize that requires
re-flying the ship the same day (possible within a fixed *small* number
of hours). 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #210
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, February 23 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 211



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RTFP
re: Analog Xenophonts
Re: Drawing questions
Re: Null development in key areas
Re: Null development in key areas
Re: Null development in key areas
Re: Personal Data Transmission
Re: Why not go up and down? Was RE: Campaigns
Re: Why not go up and down? Was RE: Campaigns
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit : Reply to comments
Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)
Re: quiz
Re: Drawing questions
Re: Planetary meson guns (was: Surface Damage (was:  Traveller Digest yadayadayada))
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Trade Classifications
Re: Templars
Re: Battle Drones
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:32:15 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: RTFP

"Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net> writes:
>>> That's what I did. I allowed the "military" careers to have access to
>>> "combat rifleman" through "gun combat" cascade. I agree the "general
>public"
>>> shouldn't have access to "combat rifleman".
>>But it's their Constitutional Right, Goddamnit! :-)
>Imperial Constitution or US constitution?  :)

Imperial, but the government has done a bang up job of making most people
forget this.
It's handy when you have to recruit in hurry.

"Ok you lot! Vargr raids are up.  I'm activiting your membership in the
Imperial military."

"What?"

"Don't you read the fine print in the constitution?  You better have been
keeping your rifleman qualification up, or you will be our designated
sniper spotter."



- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Standard Disclaimer
"If you believe the term "militia" means the National Guard then you must
believe that freedom of speech is reserved for the Government Printing
Office." 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:59:47 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Analog Xenophonts

Paul D. Owensby wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
But don't fall into the cliche of near-perfect understanding leading to near-
perfect harmony. I imagine that two opposed xenophonts could exchange
vitriol and hatred for one another and each other's ideas in seconds that
might take us hours of impassioned argument. Can you imagine what kind of 
insults you can get across to the other person when an thought-whirl not only
carries your opinions on their ideas, but also where they can stick them, what
you think of their parentage, their country, their race, their breath, what
sort of
bizarre sexual peccadillos you believe they have, the fact that they eat corn,
etc., all in one message. Makes the Hollywood Drill Instructor look like a 
wussy!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I like the idea of opposition - a xeno gives another a dirty look, imagine the volumes of meaning in it's color whorl.... ;)

But the sheer volumes of communication this race performs on a daily basis indicates a consensus culture to me - not to say that they don't argue like cats and dogs, but when (or if) time comes to take action they know how everyone stands on the issue - they wouldn't proceed unless they were confident that no one in the group was dead-set against the project, and they'd know that just by looking.

BTW, "xenophonts" is just the generic term - I'm certain the race's own name for itself will be meaningless to us (blue/green/green/teal/scintillate?), so the Contact! name will be what a human calls them. The working design is a quasi-serpentine body, large single compound eye (with the color-changing cells), two multi-function tentacles, hermaphrodite reproduction with egg clusters...I haven't decided on bone structure yet, I may just give them a single keel structure like a cuttlefish. Size, strength, even home environment are still under development.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:11:26 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Drawing questions

In article <VA.000005f9.001dde94@taz>,
Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>> No, it is a network of fine thread-like wires built into the mass of
>> the hull.  It takes up surface area, but it so light weight that the
>> total mass is tiny, and included as part of the general hull weight.
> 
> I posted some thoughts on this 10 days ago but no-one responded!  I'll 
>repeat my views here:  
> 
>I know what FFS2 and MT's Starship operation manual say, but it does 
>not seem to be entirely consistent to me.
> 
>Do people have any strong views about how we might visualise the grids:
> 
>1) the jump grid is lots of narrow (1 mm dia) wires over the surface of 
>the ship.  For this case, do these wires go "over" or "under" such 
>fixtures as turrets, bays, sensor antennae, spinal mount openings, 
>HEPLAR exhaust ports.  is there a maximum separation for the wires? 
>Does this separation reduce with jump number?  If the wires go over 
>other features, why bother to assign a surface area to them in FFS2?

Doesn't need to, as it generates a field that can cover minor extensions
such as turrets and aerials.

>2) the jump grid is mostly contained in a few area (say, near the fore 
>and aft of the vessel, plus near the tips of wings, tailplanes) with 
>half-a-dozen grid lines joining the key nodes.

That's a possible explanation.

Personally though, I've always liked the idea of freighters that could
increase their tonnage by dragging non-volatile cargo's in huge "jump-nets"
behind them.

Also useful for salvaging ships with inoperative jump systems


>Following the SOM, I used to handwave things as (1), saying that 
>turrets had to be in the correct position for jump (so their grids 
>matched the rest of the ship), antennae had to be retracted and thin 
>doors closed over spinal mounts, M-drive ports and so on.  I always 
>liked the idea of last-minute EVA to unjam the turret, or to re-lay a 
>section of damaged grid with a lanthanum welding rod as the ship flees 
>combat.

Nice story effects.  Might be worth it for that alone.

- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:    frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |         frankie@ibm.net 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:38:04 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Null development in key areas

In article <34E5A475.4628@ebicom.net>, deadeye@ebicom.net wrote:
>However, there is an aggreement chopping all fixed wing air to the
>USAF.

Doesn't the US Army still has some fixed-wing spotter
aircraft for FAO  ?

- -- 
Frankie
    

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:27:29 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Null development in key areas

In article <19980211172107.2439.qmail@hotmail.com>,
"Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>If I had to choose an army to be in based on casualty rates I think 
>>I'd go with the WWII German Army, as they lost rather less men than 
>>those they faced, under some pretty bad odds.
>
>I guess they didn't face too many Marines, then...  :-)

Look up Kasserine some day.

Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:    frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |         frankie@ibm.net 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:31:56 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Null development in key areas

In article <34E2EA5D.167EB0E7@uni-trier.de>,
"V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de> wrote:
>Michael D. Peters wrote:
>
>(story about nuking the pass snipped)
>> The point of this (I guess) is that what's "friendly" to some might not be
>> to some of our "friends".  Not sure how relevent this is but it was a neat
>> story.
>
>That s what i figured all along. Had war broken out, the US would have
>defended us, and when they would have been done with that, we re no
>better off than had the russians taken us over! Using nukes to defend
>territory is the most insane practice I ever heard of!

Then you'll want to ask the Bundeswehr to remove the nuclear mines they
planted along the border ( and in the Fulda Gap ) won't you ?

- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:    frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |         frankie@ibm.net 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:59:51 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Personal Data Transmission

In article <012001bd3282$c1d45fa0$6810fed0@cybrnaut>,
"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:
>Robert Ringrose wrote:
>
>[>Richard A. Flores wrote:]
>>
>>> I envision a spacers ring that automatically deluges the collected
>>> data on the most recent jumps to all other spacer's rings while
>>> getting the data they have.  Then when the captain, pilot,
>>
>>It doesn't have to be a ring.  Put it in your shoe or belt and use
>>your body for the data transmission.  Been done at the MIT Media Lab
>>already.
>>
>Excellent point, the reason I mentioned the ring is because it's in T4.

I suggest you guys look up the term "Personal Area Network" or "PAN"
at MIT or on the IBM Systems Journal site.

This is _real_ technology that exists today, that uses the body's
bio-electric field as a network media to communicate between various
computers on the body, and to other people's PANs.

Systems are powered by a piezo-electric generator mounted in the heel
of the shoe.

The demo application has two people exchanging electronic "business cards"
by shaking hands. 

Not "Production Strength" yet, but certainly "on it's way"

- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:    frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |         frankie@ibm.net 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:47:59 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Why not go up and down? Was RE: Campaigns

In article <34DBB512.4F0B@ebicom.net>, deadeye@ebicom.net wrote:
>The real reason Trav doesn't go GalSouth/GalNorth is that 3D mapping is
>very difficult on a 2D sheet of paper. 

Not at all.  Look at the Universe! map.

<snip>

>Until we have holotanks, (which the US Navy is currently building,) this
>will remain a problem.  Astrogators will be well paid.
>
This is only because Traveler _decided_ to go that way.

Personally, I loved SPIs  Starforce: Alpha Centauri,
and the associated game Outreach!.

That really drove home the third dimension element, especially
to a boardgamer used to being able to form impemnatrable lines
of battle as in most WW]{ boardgames and Diplomacy.

You just _couldn't_ form lines. You could only defend your
star-gates as best as possible, and hope the enmemy attacked
them. If you split your forces to defend individual systems,
you would be defeated.

- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:    frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |         frankie@ibm.net 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:58:20 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Why not go up and down? Was RE: Campaigns

Frank G. Pitt wrote:

> In article <34DBB512.4F0B@ebicom.net>, deadeye@ebicom.net wrote:
> >The real reason Trav doesn't go GalSouth/GalNorth is that 3D mapping is
> >very difficult on a 2D sheet of paper.
>
> Not at all.  Look at the Universe! map.
>
> <snip>
>
> >Until we have holotanks, (which the US Navy is currently building,) this
> >will remain a problem.  Astrogators will be well paid.
> >
> This is only because Traveler _decided_ to go that way.
>
> Personally, I loved SPIs  Starforce: Alpha Centauri,
> and the associated game Outreach!.
>
> That really drove home the third dimension element, especially
> to a boardgamer used to being able to form impemnatrable lines
> of battle as in most WW]{ boardgames and Diplomacy.
>
> You just _couldn't_ form lines. You could only defend your
> star-gates as best as possible, and hope the enmemy attacked
> them. If you split your forces to defend individual systems,
> you would be defeated.

I'm in a game right now where we're using the third dimension.  Here's a
sample system data and map:
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/1056/ant34c8.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:59:30 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit : Reply to comments

Whew, you guys are tough.

Ok, generally I will reiterate, the stealth suit is not suitable for
Imperial assassinations, Robbing the Imperial Bank of Glisten, or, more
generally, evading high tech detection equipment.  It is suitable for
low-key grey operations like breaking in to offices, home, forest compunds,
all at night in relatively low security situations.

The Suit I was describing is also a relatively simple spandex unitard, not
an armored suit with backpack power supply and helmet.  If you want that,
make your own, and be sure to discriminate it in name from this item.

The problem with equipment in Traveller is that game balance must be
retained.  If, in actual use, I gave the people I play with the
capabilities some responders have mentioned the Galaxy wouldn't be safe
anymore and all my adventures would be walkovers.

Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com> said;
>Most security systems IMTU use ultrasonic motion detectors, similar to a
>bat's sonar. Another advantage for high-tech stealth suits would be a sonic
>dampening module which listens for ultrasonic frequencies and transmits a
>phase-inverted frequency. This could also be used with audible sounds; so
>the wearer could talk into a throat mike and not be heard by someone
>standing next to her.

Wave cancellation is a proposed sonar defeating technology, but in that
mode would require enormous amounts of equipment and energy.  There are
also engineering problems associated with the very first second or so of
transmitted signal; it is "impossible" to get a cancelling signal back to
the source within the first few moments.  This problem would be multiplied
with a detector that was frequency agile.

More likely is a sound absorbing material, similar to the radar absorbing
material on stealth aircraft, which simply tends not to reflect the sound
waves.

The throat mike issue can be solved a number of ways, including a mike
designed to transmit (and clear up) subvocal noises, which would be easy to
dampen.

"John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com> said;
>I would think that IR masking would *definitely* be included.  Combat
>Environment Suits (TL 10) have basic IR masking using a chemical chill can
>which makes them IR invisible for 45 minutes and at TL 12 the suits can
>have a chameleon option which "selectively bleeds heat to match the
>background IR level, effectively rendering the solider invisible to IR
>sensors."  From Mercenary (CT Book 4) page 41.  The CE suit is in CT, MT,
>and TNE, and in CT & MT it weighs 2 kg, so this IR masking doesn't weigh
>very much.
[snip]

I knew of this tech, but thought the suit was significantly heavier/bulkier
than what I was envisioning.  Just the implications of a "Chill Can"
contradicts my picture of a device which is mostly passive in its
effectiveness.

It does seem a reasonable variation on the theme though, based on the 2 kg
weight.

[snip John's TL/Camo option description.]

I like your descriptions, but would tend to move them up a TL (TL16 for
blurproofing, TL 13 for variable camo settings, TL 14 for automatic camo
settings, TL 15 for Chameleon Coating).  The item described is relatively
available on the civilian market (assuming a low law level or special
contacts).  The Military only version is one TL ahead.

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said;
>BIG problem. The person *has* to be able to sweat.

Moisture is allowed to evapourate.  What is not liberated is relatively
large traces of DNA traceable materials such as skin, hair, etc.

>I haven't read anything about it since the 60s, but even then they were
>working on detectors to pick up the microgram amounts of the *enormous*
>number of volatiles a huan (or other animal/plant) body gives off and
>using it to detect intruders.

Remember that for every detector there will be a counter.  That's exactly
the point of this item.  Also, the item is pretty much limited to
non-military and/or routine levels of security rather than being
invulnerable to all sensors at any tech level.

>On the plus side, this will make it an excellent CBN garment, as the
>molecules involved in chemical and biological warfare wiull be too big
>to get thru to the wearer. And it'd also stop most radioactivfallout
>and the like from getting thru. It won't help against actual radiation
>though.

Since the outfit is optimized for a completely different purpose, I would
not allow this interpretation by my players.

>You'll have to make the suit act like a counter current heat exchanger
>for gases going in and out, as well as allowing out excess heat (which
>is apt to be a *real* problem). So respiration will take place over the
>entire surface of the suit.

I'm not sure what you are saying here, respiration occurs through a simple,
noise suppressed, mask.  Heat exchange is via the air-permeability of the
fabric.

>So even given "magic" technology, you have several ways the wearer can
>be detected:
>
>1. oxygen consumption (difficult, even at high tech levels)
>2. CO2 emmissions (easier)
>3. thermal signature.
See above.  I feel (still) that this is a vulnerability not addressed by
the suit.
>4. EM signature, mostly light. At a bare minimum. you have to let in
>   light at the eyes so the wearer can see where he is going. Hard,m
>   but not impossible to detect at higher tech levels.
>5. mass. The intruder *has* mass. And as such, he's *inherently*
>   detectable. We *now* have detectors that can detect the mass of your
>   fist at a couple of meters. Detecting a 100 kilo intruder at 10
>   meters is quite doable.

In answer to your list.  Yes, all of these methods can detect this item, as
well as psionics, air pressure/movement, odor, sensitive sound detectors,
The suit is not *that* capable.  Against the mark 1 eyeball, and mark 1
ear, it is excellent.  Against a chemical or biological sniffer when the
scene is being investigated, it does pretty well.

Against electronic detection equipment the suit is only better if the suit
is a higher tech level than the equipment.  This is, perhaps, overstated.
Perhaps a situational example would be in order.

Harley Quinn in her jester-style stealth suit is trying to creep through a
warehouse attic ("Sneak, sneak, sneak."), without attracting the attention
of the roomful of gangsters just below.  She has stealth-1 and a 12
Dexterity, giving her a 13 or less target on three dice (based on the
difficulty, whose names I never remember).  With her TL 12 stealth suit she
gets a +4 bonus (+1 for each TL over 8), bring the target number down to 9;
that's pretty easy.  A failure and the gang downstairs hears something, but
might even ignore it or laugh it off.  A catastrophic failure nad she steps
on a loose panel and drops into the room below, with an embarrassed look on
her face.

Now put a TL10 ultrasonic burglary alarm in the attic.  The bonus is now
only +2 (diff between TLs) and the difficulty is one level higher (3.5 d6
rolled).  Target number is now 11, but on more dice.  A somewhat more
difficult task.

Change the detector to a TL 14 IR detector and she's in real trouble.  I'd
use the same difficulty, but if I rolled the 50% chance and find the
detector is specifically designed against the suit's defenses, only a
spectacular success would keep Harley from setting the thing off.  Even if
the other 50% is rolled, the suit gets a -2 on stealth rolls since its two
TLs lower than the detector; mind you, without the suit the person wouldn't
get a roll at all (or a critical success only roll), so this is still an
advantage.

>Frankly, if you are trying to spy, rather than break in to steal some
>object, you'd be much better off with micro-drones.

There are times when there is no substitute for human eyes and ears, and
some times when there is a need to enter and remove something.
Surveillance equipment has its (very important) role, but its not always a
substitute for an operative on the scene.

Always remember folks, I plan to let *players* have this thing.  I gotta
leave a few sensors around that can detect them.

More comments encouraged.

Pete

Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:08:42 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

This kind of reminds me of the planetary meson gun problem. The only way to
kill it since the damn thing is buried in the planet's crust is to kill all of
the surface fire controls and sensors (or invade the planet).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:12:48 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: quiz

Semo, A busby has a "bag" hanging from it because it is not a guardsmen's
bearskin (though they are both made from bearskins-confusing is it not?). It
is shorter, and looks sort of like a giant version of a 60's woman's pillbox
hat. It is closer in style to the Royal Horse Artillery hats.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:17:17 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Drawing questions

Supplement #9 has a jump tug that uses nets to drag objects through jump
space.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:50:20 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Planetary meson guns (was: Surface Damage (was:  Traveller Digest yadayadayada))

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
> This kind of reminds me of the planetary meson gun problem. The only
> way to kill it since the damn thing is buried in the planet's crust
> is to kill all of the surface fire controls and sensors (or invade
> the planet).

I never understood that.  Surely the most effective tactic is  to
send in covert special ops teams to  neutralise  planetaty  meson
guns prior to invading?  (Similar idea to Han Solo taking out the
planet-based shield generator in Return Of The Jedi.)

Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:53:12 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

In a message dated 98-02-21 13:03:28 EST, you write:

<< 
 >	Roll for Population Multiplier, Planetoid Belts, and Gas Giants
 >independently. Record as single digits in the order PBG.
 
 I'd prefer to stay with 2D6-2 for Population Multiplier
 
  >>
 Which unfortunately produces results from 0 to 10. 0 x 10^6 is 0, whichis an
unhappy result. 10 x 10 ^6 is 10^7, which is also an unhappy result.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:28:57 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Trade Classifications

In a message dated 98-02-23 07:08:18 EST, you write:

<< 
 To put it in perspective, name me a "trade item" from a land mass on
 earth that qualifies as "barren". 
  >>

Meteorites from the ice field of Antarctica?
Similarly ice cores. Seismographic data? Gold nuggets.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:03:41 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Templars

At 12:34 AM 2/23/98 -0900, you wrote:

>> Could you run Ine Givar and SolSec past the Telorans, too?
>
>Ine  = 9 + 14 +5 = 28
>	2 + 8 = 1
>
>Givar = 7 + 9 + 22 + 1 + 18 = 57
>	5 + 7 = 12
>	1 + 2 = 3
>
>	1 + 3 = 4

>The Spinward Marches contain Five Sisters Subsector which is, as we all
>know, the mystical center of the known universe.  No doubt the Templars
want >lots of ships present to control this area. 

Hmm.. just trailing of Five Sisters is District 268.

2 + 6 + 8 = 16, or 4 x 4!

My brothers, we may be off target!
- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:15:21 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Battle Drones

In a message dated 2/22/98 15:01:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
legate@futureone.com writes:

<< thread about IFF problems - would friendly-fire or fire against neutral 
 > targets be more of a problem with Battle Drones than with manned
 Fighters?
 
 I would have to say so.  Just think the SW use some Battle Drones & they
 get scrambled & attack a 3I free trader.  Would this not start a war?
  >>

Not necessarily...look at the unfortunate Vincennes incident in the Persian
Gulf.  And that happened under human control (a case of misidentification by
both the computer and the human crew).

I don't think that a human crew is a guarantee of error-free operation...and
there is precedent for a completly comp-controlled system (jump springs
immediately to mind...that CANNOT be human-run)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:51:57 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

At 09:27 AM 2/23/98 +1030, you wrote:
>> From the charts for T4.1

>Interesting stuff, but it doesn't give an indication of what occupation 
>fits into what class.  Where do soldiers fit, for instance, or 
>mercenaries?  Are pilots more highly thought of than teachers, or doctors?

I don't think that there would strict classes for each occupatuion.  Since
we have the Cr. 250/month per point of SOC rule back, if you get a high
paying job, your SOC will rise as you maintain a higher lifestyle.  For
example, a doctor who was born dirt poor (SOC 3) but makes enough money to
maintain SOC 10 will be SOC 10 after a time.  In a similar vein, a SOC 9
businessman who loses everything won't be able to maintain appearences and
his SOC will fall.
- --

+------------------------*------------------------+
|    Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net     |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html     |
+-------------------------------------------------+
| Truth resides in the human heart and one has to |
|  search for it there, and to be guided by the   |
|  truth as one sees it. But no one has the right |
|  to coerce others to act according to his own   |
| view of the truth.            -- Gandhi         |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:04:15 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-02-21 13:03:28 EST, you write:
>
> <<
>  >      Roll for Population Multiplier, Planetoid Belts, and Gas Giants
>  >independently. Record as single digits in the order PBG.
>
>  I'd prefer to stay with 2D6-2 for Population Multiplier
>
>   >>
>  Which unfortunately produces results from 0 to 10. 0 x 10^6 is 0, whichis an
> unhappy result. 10 x 10 ^6 is 10^7, which is also an unhappy result.
>

I use a ten-sided die for this, and reroll on 10. But then, I'm a heretic.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:59:23 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

 
> > mix, they'd be toast, too. Any decent combat system should allow for
> > this, even if they aren't aimed shots (PCs are a special case,
> > though, they can aim where they want :-)
> 
> But then this same tactic would make missiles literally obsolete, since
> their sensors would have to be exposed to laserfire as well.  Hmmmm...
 
They are ;-) That is why missiles are so easy to kill. Regardless of
how much you might want to armor a missile, its sensors can't be,
and need to be pointed right at the target.  That is why det-lasers
make sense since they try to detonate at a range far enough out that
they haven't been hit yet.

KKMs will have a lot of trouble for this reason. Basically if your
laser can wreak a sensor, it can kill a missile. This is why it is
so hard to do a roll back attack in traveller--lasers can kill
missiles faster than a moidern warship can with missiles.

> Visual sensors would be the only ones that would be particularly
> susceptible to lasers, since they share a common medium (ie: light).

I don't mean to somehow overpower the detector, I mean to pysically
destroy it. The same laser will punch a hole right throught a
person, it just won't be able to drill through a few cm of BSD.

> Things like densitometers and gravity detectors could be buried behind
> protective armour, since I do not believe their proximity to the surface of
> a ship is necessary for them to function.
 
They would be pretty useless as sensors for things other than
astrophysics/geology.

> The back-up sensors could easily exist inside armoured bays and only expose
> themselves when needed.  Likewise, since lasers will probably use fixed

True, good idea.

I really like that, actually.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #211
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Traveller-digest      Monday, February 23 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 212



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
T4-Combat Questions
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Sector Data updated
Re: Drawing questions
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Galactic Software
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Trade Classifications
more trade classifications
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit
IG shipping
Re: IG shipping

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:39:47 +0000
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

At 08:51 23/02/98 -0800, you wrote:


I feel that Social has two types, what someone inherited.

A Starting Social B or higher could be assumed to have inherited a Knighthood

Whereas a Starting Social 2 or at least in single figures would equate to
where the characters parents started or even where the character is at age 18.

The gains in service are related to being introduced and peer pressured
into another social circle.  Even at social levels as high as F, all it
means is that your character has a lot of influence in certain areas.

My new character - Dr Martin Gigglesborn - Grand Admiral Retired has a
social of F.  This means to me that though he is not knighted or a noble,
he has a certain circle of influence. A few other Admirals may owe him a
few favours, he may have written a few articles on surgery techniques and
be respected for it.  A number of nobles might have been saved by his
prompt surgical intervention.  I regard him as a high social mover, not a
Duke.

An old character - Jim Staines Sector Admiral has a social of B, this
relates to his knighthood.  During play his social increased from 2 to 4
and then he was knighted.  When he is in the company of other naval
officers of an equivalent rank they normally look down on him, even with
his new social of B.

Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:21:14 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

At 05:09 PM 2/20/98 -0800, Clark Crawford wrote:

>I was convinced by the half-life argument that we should leave the meson
>gun handwave alone (okay, brand me for a lazy brain :).  If we really want
>to figure it out, we have to go and give TL 11 a better way to quantify
>the lifetimes of particles, and that's a Pandora's Box if I ever saw one.
>Undoubtedly it's been hacked beyond recognition by the PhDs on the TML
>already. ;-)

The way I solved it in my universe was that the Meson is actually named
after Robert T. Meson, discoverer of a fundamental particle which decays
after an exact proper time interval.  This decay is not because of the
usual QM energy uncertainty, rather, it is because of an internal clock
that causes it to switch states.  It has three important states -
interacting, non interacting, and decaying.  The name similarity to the
presently known particle, which decays according to QM principles is an
unfortunate accident of history, and can be blamed on his aggressive patent
enforcement team.

When it is in the interacting state, it can be easily generated, unlike,
for example, collimated neutrino beams.  These have been suggested as
useful for similar purposes as Meson beams, yet the difficulty of
interacting with them via the weak nuclear force has thus far made them
more a laboratory curiosity, while Meson beams are used for all sorts of
purposes once they become well understood at TL 12.  The state change
requires a significant amount of energy, though nothing like the
mass-energy of such a particle, and requires information about the
particles quantum state which is near to the theoretical limits, which is
why it is so difficult to harness them before nuclear damper technology is
well understood.

Meson screens work by causing them to prematurely switch states to the
decay state, where they turn into a flood of gammas and other particles,
and by causing them to switch to interacting state, which allows you to use
redirect them easily without harm to your vessel.  As tech level advances,
Meson screens become much less power hungry, as they need a far shorter
range.  Low tech meson screens produce the same explosion and flood of
gammas that the gun was trying to produce, just outside rather than inside
the target.  Higher tech screens allow redirection without an explosion.

Being on the outside of a meson screen equipped facility is not very
pleasant at TL 12.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:00:42 -0400
From: Dale Poole <DPoole@therston.rc.hollandc.pe.ca>
Subject: T4-Combat Questions

I have finally moved over to the T4 combat rules, and came across a
couple of difficulties in our session last night.  In fact it was the *first*
Trav combat I've ever run, so the questions are probably old ones:

1.  Autofire.  Aside from primary and adjacent targets, how is damage
assigned?  Specifically, if you're firing a five round burst, do you assign
damage for each round, or for the burst as a whole?  How do you
determine where each individual round goes?

2.  What are the effects of being hit by HEAP rounds?  Are there
penetration rules, or do you simply assign the extra damage afforded by
HEAP rather than having a pierced set of armour?

And of course there was a third question I had, but who can
remember!?  I'll save it for later.

Thanks for help

Daleus
dpoole@therston.rc.hollandc.pe.ca

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:24:26 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

Douglas E. Berry wrote:
[ snip ] 
> I don't think that there would strict classes for each occupatuion.  Since
> we have the Cr. 250/month per point of SOC rule back, if you get a high
> paying job, your SOC will rise as you maintain a higher lifestyle.  For
> example, a doctor who was born dirt poor (SOC 3) but makes enough money to
> maintain SOC 10 will be SOC 10 after a time.  In a similar vein, a SOC 9
> businessman who loses everything won't be able to maintain appearences and
> his SOC will fall.

Either way would be the basis for a longer campaign. How does it all
happen to/for your PC('s)??  What effect would a major belt strike (by
design or by accident) have on your PC('s) in the midst of your present 
game circumstance ??

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:00:24 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Sector Data updated

I've added the last complete sector that I know of (Amduken) to the database and
spreadsheets.  Unless someone is able to dig up and additional sector data, or
give me corrections to the existing data, this will probably be the last change
I make to these files.  I have no plans for further development of the
spreadsheets, they were merely the vehicle to build the database.

I _do_ have plans for the database, and will continue to add data to it as I
have time to develop my projects.  I would like to know if, those of you who use
it, would prefer I leave a 'flat' version of the database available (that is the
current format) and a 'working' version added, or if you would just like the
most recent version posted.

Thanks!

douglas


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:30:52 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Drawing questions

Jump tugs with nets fit into my handwave too ... the net has a node at 
the end most distant from the tug, with lanthanum lines jining it to 
the nodes near the aft towing lugs.

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:34:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-02-21 13:03:28 EST, you write:
> 
> << 
>  >	Roll for Population Multiplier, Planetoid Belts, and Gas Giants
>  >independently. Record as single digits in the order PBG.
>  
>  I'd prefer to stay with 2D6-2 for Population Multiplier
>  
>   >>
>  Which unfortunately produces results from 0 to 10. 0 x 10^6 is 0, whichis an
> unhappy result. 10 x 10 ^6 is 10^7, which is also an unhappy result.

Problem with 2D-2, in addition to the 11-point range, is that it yields a
bell curve distribution.  Realistically, we want a 10-point range with
equal chances of each result.  To avoid the heretical ten-sided-die, we
need that old double roll:

Throw 1D.  On a 1-3, the multiplier is 1D-1 (reroll 6).  On a 4-6, the
multiplier is 1D+4 (reroll 6).  I don't remember if they had that in Book
6, but I'm sure it was in MT.  This is the D6 equivalent of a D10. 


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:35:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

That's a pretty cool idea.  Thanks!

Clark
- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Scott Ellsworth wrote:

> The way I solved it in my universe was that the Meson is actually named
> after Robert T. Meson, discoverer of a fundamental particle which decays
> after an exact proper time interval.

[remainder of context snipped]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 98 01:33 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

Moin Daniel Ray Lane,

> > Well, don't the decays follow a bell curve?

	yes it does but the half decay time is extreme short.

> The only real reason you need them near c is for simple sped of delivery.

	and to time the peak of the curve. because of relativity speeding
	the meson avoids decay inside the OWN ship immediate after
	you produced them. but only speeding them would waste to much
	energy outside the target. so a second trick is necessary. the
	graviton pulse. graviton pulses normaly travell with light
	speed, and are used as lasers lenses since TL:A.  as the meson
	pulse only travelles with a large fraction of light, timing
	between the gravitron send after the meson would course the
	mesons on the same place, even if each has its own time.

	The meson screen detects mesons and intercepts the gravitron
	pulse, so that the mesons continue with near light speed and
	will decay far outside in a nice bell curve.
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:01:59 -0700
From: Eric Holmes <holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov>
Subject: Galactic Software

Please:

Who has and maintains the software system  "Galactic"  amongst the TMLers?

I had used it once before and cannot find it now.

Thanks.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:13:49 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

Clark Crawford wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 98-02-21 13:03:28 EST, you write:
> >
> > <<
> >  >    Roll for Population Multiplier, Planetoid Belts, and Gas Giants
> >  >independently. Record as single digits in the order PBG.
> >
> >  I'd prefer to stay with 2D6-2 for Population Multiplier
> >
> >   >>
> >  Which unfortunately produces results from 0 to 10. 0 x 10^6 is 0, whichis an
> > unhappy result. 10 x 10 ^6 is 10^7, which is also an unhappy result.
>
> Problem with 2D-2, in addition to the 11-point range, is that it yields a
> bell curve distribution.  Realistically, we want a 10-point range with
> equal chances of each result.  To avoid the heretical ten-sided-die, we
> need that old double roll:
>
> Throw 1D.  On a 1-3, the multiplier is 1D-1 (reroll 6).  On a 4-6, the
> multiplier is 1D+4 (reroll 6).  I don't remember if they had that in Book
> 6, but I'm sure it was in MT.  This is the D6 equivalent of a D10.
>

Actually, we need a 1 to 9, zeros don't work...So using 2 six sided dice we can use
this formula
Die 1:
1-2: Add 0
3-4: Add 3
5-6: Add 6

Die 2:
1-2: 1
3-4: 2
5-6: 3

Pop Mod = 3 x (ceiling(Die1 / 2) - 1) + ceiling(Die2 / 2)

of course, if you're going to use that fomula, you may as well roll a virtual 9
sided die.

Then  there is a population density question.  A billion people on a size A desert
world is going to be alot more sparse than a billion people on a size 1 water
world.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:25:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Joe Pettit wrote:

> Clark Crawford wrote:
> >
> > Problem with 2D-2, in addition to the 11-point range, is that it yields a
> > bell curve distribution.  Realistically, we want a 10-point range with
> > equal chances of each result.  To avoid the heretical ten-sided-die, we
> > need that old double roll:
> >
> > Throw 1D.  On a 1-3, the multiplier is 1D-1 (reroll 6).  On a 4-6, the
> > multiplier is 1D+4 (reroll 6).  I don't remember if they had that in Book
> > 6, but I'm sure it was in MT.  This is the D6 equivalent of a D10.
> >
> 
> Actually, we need a 1 to 9, zeros don't work...

[formulas snipped]

Oops!  That's right.  The tenth point is accounted for by the population
digit itself.  No wonder there was a problem.  :)


Thanks,
Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:29:55 -0500
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

Michael Koehne wrote:
> 
> Moin Daniel Ray Lane,
> 
> > > Well, don't the decays follow a bell curve?
> 
>         yes it does but the half decay time is extreme short.
> 
> > The only real reason you need them near c is for simple sped of delivery.
> 
>         and to time the peak of the curve. because of relativity speeding
>         the meson avoids decay inside the OWN ship immediate after
>         you produced them. but only speeding them would waste to much
>         energy outside the target. so a second trick is necessary. the
>         graviton pulse. graviton pulses normaly travell with light
>         speed, and are used as lasers lenses since TL:A.  as the meson
>         pulse only travelles with a large fraction of light, timing
>         between the gravitron send after the meson would course the
>         mesons on the same place, even if each has its own time.
> 
>         The meson screen detects mesons and intercepts the gravitron
>         pulse, so that the mesons continue with near light speed and
>         will decay far outside in a nice bell curve.

If we introduce grav focusing technology, it would be applicable to
any particles that couple via gravitons, so I feel that this might work.

Also, considering the idea of grav focusing.  If you can generate a 
soliton that encompasses and accompanies the laser photon packet to
its target all the way, I', not sure it would have to have a very large
strength to counteract beam divergence.

After all, light, light everything else, falls at 9.8 meters per second
squared in a 1g field.  It just doesn't stick around too long.

Thoughts anyone?  All my physicist buddies?

- -Dan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:34:41 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

At 10:24 AM 2/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>[ snip ] 
>> I don't think that there would strict classes for each occupatuion.  Since
>> we have the Cr. 250/month per point of SOC rule back, if you get a high
>> paying job, your SOC will rise as you maintain a higher lifestyle.  For
>> example, a doctor who was born dirt poor (SOC 3) but makes enough money to
>> maintain SOC 10 will be SOC 10 after a time.  In a similar vein, a SOC 9
>> businessman who loses everything won't be able to maintain appearences and
>> his SOC will fall.
>
>Either way would be the basis for a longer campaign. How does it all
>happen to/for your PC('s)??  What effect would a major belt strike (by
>design or by accident) have on your PC('s) in the midst of your present 
>game circumstance ??

My rule is that it takes several months of spending to raise the social
level for a PC.  This accounts for learning the rope sof your new station,
buying the right toys, etc.  A group of belters who suddenly can afford to
spend Cr 3750 a month won't be partying with the Duke any time soon.
- --
+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
| "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the  |
|  stupidity of man."  -Gen. George S. Patton |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:53:20 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Trade Classifications

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
>
> >> > In a slightly related note... Since Barren (Ba) worlds have 0 population
> >> > wouldn't they all be Low Population (Lo) worlds (pop 4-). And if this is
> >> > true, should the Lo classification be ignored as the Va classification
> >> > is ignored on As worlds?
> >>
> >> Well, Ba seems to me to be a special case. *Who* do you plan on trading
> >> *with*? With a population *that* low, you are essentially going to be
> >> negotiating with an NPC, whih means that the trade tables go right out
> >> the airlock.
> >
> > It isn't a matter of trading TO a barren world, there isn't anybody to sell
> > to. Its a matter of selling goods FROM a  barren world. The reason I'm asking
> > is for a spreadsheet I'm working on that calculates profit margins between
> > worlds.
>
> Same problem. You are either obtaining the trade item *yourself* or you
> are cutting a deal for it with what amounts to an NPC.
>
> To put it in perspective, name me a "trade item" from a land mass on
> earth that qualifies as "barren".
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

Volcanic Ash (a post-eruption volcano counts, doesn't it?)
Bear meat and skins (Artic)
Whale  meat, blubber, oil, etc... (Artic)
Seal skins (Artic)
Minerals (tho, I think Alaska counted more as 'barren' before the gold rush than
it does now...)
Scientific data (Antartic)
Penguins (Antartic)
Archeological data (Sahara)
Paleontological data (Siberia, Mongolia, etc...)

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:57:52 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: more trade classifications

I've discovered yet another trade classification discrepancy.

All Barren worlds (pop 0) worlds are low population (pop 4-).
All Low Population (pop 4-) worlds are Non-Industrial (pop 0-6).

Thus Barren worlds get nailed thrice for its 0 population...
Is that intentional?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:03:00 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit

Sorry, I missed the first pass of this. This is going to be a bit of a
confused commentary with respect to who wrote what.

>The problem with equipment in Traveller is that game balance must be
>retained.
If you believe in the concept of "game balance". Personally I don't. Any
dynamic system has a point of balance. It is up to a referee to work out
what that is, and put the setting near that point. If it isn't near that
point of balance, then the universe will move toward that point. For
example, if it were possible to build suits that made people virtually
undetectable, then the balance point would be a sort of universe where
everyone knows what everyone is doing. Subterfuge is achieved through
either information overload, or else misdirection. If a referee doesn't
portray a setting like that the characters will work it out, and use it.
Then the NPCs will catch on and the world will slowly move towards the
point of stability.
It isn't that the Galaxy wouldn't be safe, just different.

>Another advantage for high-tech stealth suits would be a sonic
>dampening module which listens for ultrasonic frequencies and transmits a
>phase-inverted frequency.
This comes down to tech-versus-tech. Higher tech ultrasonics will just
modulate it with increasingly complex functions that take longer for a
countermeasure to mimic. Higher tech conutermeasures will just get faster
and mimicing the modulation, etc, etc.

>Wave cancellation is a proposed sonar defeating technology, but in that
>mode would require enormous amounts of equipment and energy.
There is no reasons it should (at higher tech levels than us) if you can
just modulate the reflection. I think the problem with current systems is
they have to sync out the whole signal which  means you need something as
powerful as the transmitter. (And I really can't see how it works if you
have more than one detector.) If you have a "smart-surface" you can do it
just by changing the reflectivity of that surface with no needed boost to
transmit. Of course, you have to ask yourself if just adsorbing the damn
signal is easier to begin with.

Another point that doesn't seem to have been taken up (or I just haven't
seen) is that we don't have to shoot for 100% here. Like anything that
_helps_ fudge detectors is better than pole vaulting in singing the star
spangled banner. You are not necessarily trying to defeat the sensors.
Maybe just the imagine recognition software behind it. If the sound of your
footsteps can't be completely silenced, maybe it can be made more like the
wind in the trees outside. At least to the background noise screening
software.
[Which is why I agree with Pete when he says "There are times when there is
no substitute for human eyes and ears."]

>More likely is a sound absorbing material,
There is another alternative [which I originally used to explain
invisibility in D&D!]. Imagine that you had a suit where each point on the
surface was, actually, a small fiber optic wire connected to the
diametrically opposed point on your other side. If you stood infront of
something the light from behind you would "shine through you" out the other
side. Some inevitable distortion, of course.
Of course, you need something a little more clever than fiber optics (which
would only work for light hitting at right angles), but with polarised
filters and clever re-routing it should be possible at a slightly higher
tech level.
Nor is this technique limited to visual. You could also pass through low
level sound or ultra-sound (see recent developments in solid-state
speakers), IR, or whatever. This might also form a clever way to dump your
excess heat. You analyse the IR that is passing through you and add your
own IR (or a portion thereof) in with an appropriate dispersion so as to
fool most detection software.

>I knew of this tech, (IR adsorbtion) but thought the suit was
significantly
>heavier/bulkier than what I was envisioning.  Just the implications of a
>"Chill Can" contradicts my picture of a device which is mostly passive
>in its effectiveness.
I wouldn't have thought so. It is just a dump for the heat. Imagine you
have a web of superconducting threads woven into the suit (but "insulated"
so as only internally radiated heat was channeled) terminating in an
ice-cube (or lump of liquid nitrogen) you have stuck into your heel. It is
still essentially passive, you are just re-routing your heat elsewhere.
When you get out of the danger zone you can vent the excess heat (eg, the
boiled off liquied Nitrogen).

>BIG problem. The person *has* to be able to sweat.
Why? If they are cool enough, which they would have to be if it is IR
proof, why should there be excess sweat? (Other than the nature of any
inherant danger in the task!) In any event, if the suit is air-tight,
that's going to hold in any excess DNA traces. The residual sweat can just
be pooled in adsorbant material. (Ever work out how much a sanitary towel
holds?)

>working on detectors to pick up the microgram amounts of the *enormous*
>number of volatiles a huan (or other animal/plant) body gives off
Again, it is tech versus tech. Making it air tight gets rid of most, except
expelled oxygen (the design does not call for your own air supply). For
that you just have filters that, the higher the tech, remove more and more
trace remains. Of course, in step, detectors can detect higher and higher
traces. Now once you get good enough to be submerged in the background
level, it becomes more having more "image recognition" like software to
work out when it is being fooled.

>I'm not sure what you are saying here, respiration occurs through a
simple,
>noise suppressed, mask.
What, I beleive, he is saying is that instead of having a single outlet for
the air, it is dispersed through the entire surface of the suit. Think of
the suit like a baloon. Instead of letting all the air out through one
orifice (no wisecracks please), imagine instead you had little holes all
over it. That way you don't get any strong air currents or so forth. It
shouldn't be that difficult to do if the surface is permiable to it at that
level. You just work it so the whole suit in permiable at a low level and
also filters out unwanted.
Of course it will need some dry cleaning job at the end of it all!


  Heat exchange is via the air-permeability of the
fabric.

>you have several ways the wearer can be detected:
>1. oxygen consumption (difficult, even at high tech levels)
Just stick a LOX ice-cube in your cheek (metaphorically). How big a cube
would you need for a 15 minute supply? Double it up with the heat
supressor.

>2. CO2 emmissions (easier)
Just need a high-tech catalyst that bonds readily with CO2.

>3. thermal signature.
See above.

>4. EM signature, mostly light.
See pass-though system above. But, if you don't like that, how many
detectors have you seen that operate via light? Other than the rather
obvious spy-beam alarms, or the camera-monitored-by-security-guard, what is
there?

>5. mass. The intruder *has* mass.
A densiometer with the modulator put in backwards? :-)

>The suit is not *that* capable.  Against the mark 1 eyeball, and mark 1
>ear, it is excellent.
Which is all you need 90% of the time. I'm sold.

>Frankly, if you are trying to spy, rather than break in to steal some
>object, you'd be much better off with micro-drones.
I have a character in a high-tech (non-Traveller) campaign like that. She
has a bevy of "flies" which usually fly about her sending back telementry
so she can "see" 360 degress for a hundred meters or so around her. Too
much of a headache to pay attention to most time but once her attention is
drawn, she has the recon she needs.
But, much as my character in Pete's campaign is one to sit on the ship and
do _everything_ via the computer, remote sensors, and heads up displays,
there really are times when it is best to actually _go_ somewhere. It _is_
the only way you can be sure that you are getting real data and they don't
just have a wonderful countermeasure.

>Always remember folks, I plan to let *players* have this thing.  I gotta
>leave a few sensors around that can detect them.
Don't worry Pete, that's what the ferro-crete grenades are for. Didn't I
mention those?

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:07:52 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: IG shipping

	Well IG finally shipped me the two products they owed as credit for JTAS and
Citizens.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:35:30 -0500
From: Daniel Poulin <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: IG shipping

I don't know about you but since I haven't received it yet, I sent them a
nasty letter last week.  I intend to wait for a short period of them then
send them a registered letter.  We will see what will happen.  They have
indicated that "they want to catch their collective breath" (if you have
received the posting on Steve Jackson Games' list - I don't know if it got
posted on the TML - I sure hope so).  I hope that this "breath catching"
involves improving customers relations.  

There is something I don't understand though, they had a perfect group of
customers in those who subscribe in the mailing list.  We might bitch and
complain and bitch and complain (did I say that more than once... I guess I
was bitching and complaining), but we are interested in the product and
would like to see it work.  WE buy the stuff even though we complain about
it later (I guess that means we really read it)... why piss us off with
lousy customers relations.


At 19:07 23/02/98 EST, Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
>	Well IG finally shipped me the two products they owed as credit for JTAS and
>Citizens.
>
>Bryan
>
>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #212
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 213



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Traveller Items for Sale (Long) #5 - Final
Re: Planetary meson guns (was: Surface Damage (was:  Traveller Digest yadayadayada))
Re: Null development in key areas
2300 stuff for sale
IG "Catching their Breath"
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Re: Zhodani Secret Gelding Grip(tm)
Re: Battle Drones
Re: Trade Classifications
Re: Templars
Re: Galactic Software
Luriani (full post - Very long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:59:08 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Traveller Items for Sale (Long) #5 - Final

	The owner of the items is still overwhelmed with the warm response his
items have received and is greatly appreciative of the offers.

	As a reminder, the owner of the game items is reserving the right to deny
an offer for an item if he feels that the offer is not fair enough for that
item - This is not a standard auction where the items are definitely sold
to the highest bidder.  The owner believes that his collection is worth
some number, and if the offers do not fit within his acceptable range, then
he will deny such an offer.  That is not to say that he will do so, just a
warning to all that just because you had placed a bid you are not
necessarily going to get the item(s).

	All cash offers that are accepted, will require to send a MONEY ORDER to
the amount listed in the bid, plus three dollars additional for priority
mail (Letter envelope) for those items that will fit into such a package. 
Those items that will not will be arranged separately with the owner of the
items.  And if there are any additional bids, please remember to put the
"Bid for Traveller Items" into the subject line of your messages.  Since I
am doing this service as a favor, I will like to sort the mail correctly
and not miss any bids.

	If I have missed any of the bids, I must apologize and
please let me know so that I may review my mailbox for their existance.

	I will post one last message after this with the owner's reply to all who
have bid on the items.

Thanks,
Scott Spieker


Now that that is over with, here is the third bid list:

Understanding Traveller (2)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $10.00
Book 1 (First Edition printing) (2.5)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $10.00

Book 2 (Second Edition printing) (2.5)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $10.00

Book 3 (First Edition printing) (2.5)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $10.00

Book 4 Mercenary (2.5)
	Shawn: electric-stitch@w-link.net - $5.00

Book 5 High Guard (1.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $15
	Shawn: electric-stitch@w-link.net - $5.00

Supplement 6 76 Patrons (2)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $5.00

Supplement 8 Library Data A-M (2)
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $8.00

Supplement 11 Library Data N-Z (2)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $15
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $12.00

Supplement 13 Veterans (1)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $5

Supplement 4 Citizens of the Imperium (2)
	Ken Morefield: T4Aslan@aol.com - $5.00

Adventure 6 Expedition to Zhodane (2.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $15
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $12.00
	David asman: D.Asman@wayne.edu - $10.00

Double Adventure 5 Chamax Plague/Horde (1.5)
	Michael Kent: mkent@atlantic.net - $15.00
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #11 (2)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #13 (1.25)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #14 (2.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #16 (1.5)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #19 (2)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $8
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Best of the Journal #1 (4)
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $18
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $15.00
	Peter H. Brenton: pbrenton@mit.edu - $5.00

Striker Boxed Set (First Printing with all errata and supplements - MINT
CONDITION) (1)
	Thom Harris thomharr@mediaone.net - $30.00
	Scott Spieker: scspieker@ncweb.com - $20.00
	David Reed: dreed@shellus.com - $5


All Miniatures unpainted.  Original blisters have been opened to inspect
the figures upon original purchase, but sets are complete (even with
original packaging.)
Martian Metals 15mm miniatures (in original box)
	- Imperial Marines with FGMP-14 in various poses. (13 figures with
separate support weapons)
	Fred Kiesche: FKiesche@aol.com--home & KiescheF@cowen.com--work (willing
to bid premium for entire lot of minis)
	Thom Harris thomharr@mediaone.net - $40.00
	Danny Moody: DMoody@bridge.com - $30.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $20.00
	Andrew Akins: igor@ames.net & andya@cms-gt.com - $10.00

Martian Metals 15mm Miniatures (no box)
	- Basic adventurers pack (15 miniatures)
	Thom Harris thomharr@mediaone.net - $40.00
	Danny Moody: DMoody@bridge.com - $30.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $20.00
	Andrew Akins: igor@ames.net & andya@cms-gt.com - $10.00


SPECIAL NOTE:
	Steven Hudson: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca offers 300 scotia micro armor
miniatures in trade for the following two items: Invasion Earth, and Fifth
Frontier War.  (Hey it's worth a try...)

Invasion Earth game (boxed - punched) (2.5)
	Walt Smith: smithw@hartwick.edu - $35.00
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $20.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $10.00
Fifth Frontier War game (boxed - punched) (2.5)
	Thom Harris thomharr@mediaone.net - $40.00
	Clark Crawford: crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU - $30.00
	david asman: D.Asman@wayne.edu - $25.00
	Ewan Quibell: E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk - $25.00 (or trade for Azhanti
High Lightning)
	Juggernaut Press: pbm@gamesbymail.com - $17.00
	Steve Dorfman: dorfman@ksu.edu - $10.00

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:20:21 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Planetary meson guns (was: Surface Damage (was:  Traveller Digest yadayadayada))

>> This kind of reminds me of the planetary meson gun problem. The only
>> way to kill it since the damn thing is buried in the planet's crust
>> is to kill all of the surface fire controls and sensors (or invade
>> the planet).
>
>I never understood that.  Surely the most effective tactic is  to
>send in covert special ops teams to  neutralise  planetaty  meson
>guns prior to invading?  (Similar idea to Han Solo taking out the
>planet-based shield generator in Return Of The Jedi.)


Shades of the "Guns From Navarone" war movie based on a novel by Alistair
MacLain. (Not sure about the spelling of his name anymore.)
Thom

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:11:52 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Null development in key areas

>>However, there is an aggreement chopping all fixed wing air to the
>>USAF.
>
>Doesn't the US Army still has some fixed-wing spotter
>aircraft for FAO  ?


Actually the Army has quite a few "Fixed Wing" aircraft; the C-12, RC12,
OV-1d and RV-1d in their Military Intelligence (Aeriel Exploitation
Battalions).  They use several different twin engine aircraft for jocking
some of the Pentagon boys around too.
Thom

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:07:56 -0600
From: "Chris Miller" <ironstar@swbell.net>
Subject: 2300 stuff for sale

I need the space, and it ain't getting played, so...

    To minimize list impact , email me at ironstar@swbell.net

Full list to those interested, but some high points are 2300 AD box, Star
Cruiser Box, Vehicle Guide, Equipment Guide, Ships of the French Arm, etc.

Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:07:22 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: IG "Catching their Breath"

On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:43:39 -0500, you wrote:

>I don't know about you but since I haven't received it yet, I sent them a
>nasty letter last week.  I intend to wait for a short period of them then
>send them a registered letter.  We will see what will happen.  They have
>indicated that "they want to catch their collective breath" (if you have
>received the posting on Steve Jackson Games' list - I don't know if it got
>posted on the TML - I sure hope so).  I hope that this "breath catching"
>involves improving customers relations.  

I will *not* comment on this. You all know what you think I would think it means
(is that clear?) anyway.

<sigh>

;-P

Phil

- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:28:50 -0800
From: Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com>
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

>> What if you slewed the meson beam a little so, instead of the decay
>> happening on a line segment, it gets spread out over a volume. This would
>> make it more difficult to track backwards to the source. Also, the
>> 'explosion' would occupy a spherical region in space and tend to cause more
>> collateral damage.
>
>Then it happens in a *cone*, with the apex at the meson gun. And the
>explosion wouldn't be very spherical.

Well, a truncated cone, but considering the ranges meson guns operate at,
the volume swept out be as close to a cylinder as makes no difference.
Assuming the decay happens along something like a normal distribution, we
can offset the beam from the center at a normal distribution to get maximum
intensity at a single point and decreasing effect further from that
point... Close enough to spherical to a first approximation.


- --
Richard Hough
richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:27:41 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Zhodani Secret Gelding Grip(tm)

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>> "You take a linoleum knife and..."
>
>Gelding knives only *look* like linoleum knives!

I started thinking of real-world gelding techniques, and remembered that
the Saami use their teeth.  Since they're reindeer pastoralists too, I
think it only appropriate the Sayat should do the same.  All low-budget
hackneyed sexual connotations notwithstanding.

>> The actual details were never revealed, sad to say...they are best
>> left to the imagination anyway.
>
>Reminds me of the quite common scene where a "bad guy" goes into a room
>where a captive is being interrogated, carrying a teaspoon. Horrible
>screams are heard, and he emerges with the info.

Strange... there was a SolSec hatchetman NPC in the last Traveller campaign
I was in who, in his menacingly swishy way, would do _exactly the same
thing_ with a lace antimaccassar his grandmother had made.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:34:48 -0800
From: Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com>
Subject: Re: Battle Drones

>Imagine the political backlash the first time a Battle Drone suffers a
>computer or control error and kills a free trader with full passenger
>load...I can imagine cultures that wouldn't allow their militaries to use
>Battle Drones after a single such incident, or even after realizing such an
>incident could occur.

Milieu 0 tells of a booby-trapped security robot that killed a foreign
delegation before the founding of the Third Imperium. IIRC, the Shudusham
Concord prohibits automated lethal weaponry precisely because of this and
"Battle Drones" would only be used by enemies of the Imperium during its
early era.

- --
Richard Hough
richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:32:26 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Trade Classifications

Douglas Glatz wrote:

>> To put it in perspective, name me a "trade item" from a land mass on
>> earth that qualifies as "barren".
[snip]
>Paleontological data (Siberia, Mongolia, etc...)

Hey, hey, hey!  Siberia and Mongolia hardly qualify as "barren"!  There's a
good 50+ million inhabitants of the first, and 2+ of the second, with an
assortment of light and heavy manufacture as well as agriculture, animal
husbandry, and resource extraction, all of which are export-oriented
industries...

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:42:00 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Templars

Peter Newman wrote:

>So if Sayat have red skin, use reindeer, and are Communists, does this
>mean that Santa Claus is actually a Sayat agent trying to undermine
>capatilism by flooding our economy with free Christmas presents ?

<whistle> <look around> <check wristwatch> <hum a tune> (<not the
Internationale, of course>)  Nice weather, huh?  Sorta springlike already.
That El Nino...

>Objective science ?  Numerology is one of the most unscientific things
>out there, please don't tell the Darmine though you will only hurt their
>feelings (and depending on the local legal system possibly end up in a
>duel). - Peter

<tinkle of illusion shards hitting deck>

[snip proof of Templar-Ine Givar collusion]

>Thus we can see that while the Templars may control the Ine Givar they
>do not control SolSec.  it seems likely to me that the Templar
>controlled Ine Givar are using the Ine Givar to stir up trouble & commit
>acts of terrorism to increase popular Imperial support for high levels
>of Imperial military presence in the Spinward Marches.  The Spinward
>Marches contain Five Sisters Subsector which is, as we all know, the
>mystical center of the known universe.  No doubt the Templars want lots
>of ships present to control this area.  The question we need to be
>asking ourselves is are the Templars trying to protect us from the
>unspeakable Lovecraftian horrors which will soom break free into this
>dimension or are they merely trying to be the dominant power in the
>region so that _they_ can decide who to sacrifice, in hideous ways, to
>these monsters ?

They're just trying to keep the Church of the SubGenius away from the Space
Bankers this time, when they make the next cosmic "stock offering"...

>Don't ever let anyone tell you that it is just a lucky astrographic
>coincidence, combinded with hard work on Norris part, that The Regency
>was able to avoid Virus.  Obviously something within the Regency is so
>horrible that even Virus dared not go there.

Virus is just homophobic, that's all.  <duck>

[snip sketch of Templar-Illuminati monetary warfare]

>Therefore the Solomani rebelled.  After rebelling the Solomani Sphere
>created its own money with, naturally enough, the Eye in the Pyramid on
>the back.  The Imperial government was busy at this time fighting off
>other mystical attacks and could not respond until The Solomani Rim
>War.  In 1014 shortly after the conclusion of this war thee Imperial
>government redesigned the credit.  Ostensibly this was done to reduce
>the possibility of counterfitting the them TL 14 credit with the
>superior technology of the emerging TL 15 worlds but I think we know
>better than that."

And how does this fit in with the increase of electronic interstellar fund
transfers via pseudobiological electronic "chips" late in the Third
Imperium...?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 03:21:03 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Galactic Software

I do not maintain Galactic, but I have a file in my download DIR called
"gal23.zip" and it's a little over 3megs.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:18:24 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Luriani (full post - Very long)

Okay, over the last few days I've worked out a rough sketch of the Luriani
culture and physiology, as well as do some minor alterations to the history
I'd writen before (some dates change, some minor changes to their
physiology). As always any and all comments good bad or othrwise are most
welcome. I will be archiving this on my web site in the next few days.

Race Name: Luriani
Homeworld: Derri/Fornast 2316 A76AA88-A
Environment: Land amphibian
Ecological Niche: Hunter
Native Skills: Music
Characteristics: 1 - Strength 2d
                 2 - Dexterity 2d
                 3 - Endurance 1d+6
                 4 - Intelligence 2d
                 5 - Education 2d
                 6 - Social Standing 2d
Symmetry: Bilateral
Limb groups: Two
Braincase: Head
Armour: None
Weaponry: None
Senses: 1 - Smell/Taste
        2 - Touch
        3 - Sight (normal)
        4 - Hearing (normal)
        5 -
        6 -
Aging: As per standard Human
Gender: Dual
Components: ?????
Caste: Not applicable
Remarks: The race can store oxygen in their fat cells sufficient for 30
         minutes and can reach depths of 500m (at standard atmospheric
         pressure) unaided.

Homeworld: Derri/Fornast 2316 A76AA88-A   Hi Wa 220 Im K0 V (in 98)

**History**
The Luriani are a Human minor race transported to their new home by the
mysterious Ancients some 300,000 years ago. Whilst the Luriani are
unmistakably Human they have several unique and distinct characteristics
which are a result of both natural evolution and genetic tampering by the
Ancients. The Luriani are often referred to as "aquatic" Humans. This is not
strictly true, for although they are far more at home in a water environment
than most Humans these adaptations do not go as far as the Solomani geenered
Scanians. Luriani have distinctively webbed hands and feet (and the Luriani
toes take up a far greater proportion of the feet); certain fat cells have
the ability to store oxygen which allows the Luriani to remain submerged for
up to 30 minutes and reach depths of up to 500 metres without any artificial
assistance; they possess a clear second eyelid under the first which greatly
enhances their vision underwater. However perhaps their most striking
modification is not readily apparent at all. Unlike virtually all other
Human races, the Luriani are overwhelmingly right brain dominant and their
language ability is located in the centre of the brain which normally deals
with singing rather than the classic speech centres. It would appear that
these modifications were introduced to enable the Luriani to function better
in a three dimensional environment, this has lead to further speculation
that the Ancients intended to make the Luriani fully aquatic but the Final
War intervened, leaving the Luriani "unfinished". As a result of these
modifications the Luriani are overwhelmingly (at least 93%) lefthanded,
intensely creative and artistic, and have a strong tendency towards music
and other performance arts.

Derri (the Luriani homeworld) is officially classified as a waterworld, with
only 5% of its surface being land. However this is still 19.7 million km2.
Derri is a fairly normal world with eleven continental plates, but these are
mostly below sea level. Thus Derri is covered by a large number of
continental sized island archipelagos surrounded by shallow (150m to 300m)
seas. These "continents" are surrounded by deep (2000m to 5000m) oceans. It
would appear that the Ancients initially deposited the Luriani on several
islands in one of these archipelagos.

The semi-aquatic nature of the Luriani enabled them to utilise the shallow
seas around their island homes for hunting and gathering, thus allowing for
far greater populations and development than might have otherwise been
expected. However eventually the restricted nature of their island homes
started to limit their development. It was these growing pressures that lead
to the development of seafaring on Derri far before the Luriani had even
developed anything even remotely like civilisation (it is theorised that the
creative nature of the Luriani brain played a crucial role in this). Thus in
approximately -250,000 the Luriani developed seagoing vessels whilst they
were still a primitive hunter gatherer society. By -150,000 the Luriani had
developed oceangoing vessels capable of circumnavigating their entire world
despite still possessing only a TL0 culture. It was the possession of this
maritime capacity which preserved the remarkable homogeneity of Luriani
culture, despite being separated by thousands of kilometres of water, each
Luriani settlement was connected by a web of voyaging ships. Indeed some
Luriani lived out their entire lives at sea, only setting foot on land to
gather supplies or build new ships.

Given this voyaging culture it was only natural that the Luriani should
quickly come to the concept of trade and commerce, thus giving rise to the
first signs of Luriani civilisation. By -100,000 the Luriani had developed a
thriving world spanning barter economy, with the huge nomadic voyaging ships
travelling between islands, trading for goods and services. However with the
rise of trade came the rise of piracy and warfare. Both the seagoing nomads
and the island dwelling settlements found a need for fighters to defend
against the depredation's of raiders, which would eventually evolve into the
Luriani warrior class. Thus by -30,000 the Luriani had established a world
spanning trading civilisation complete with organised warfare, despite the
fact that they were still a TL0 hunter gatherer culture without any
domesticated animals or form of agriculture.

Over the next 23,000 years the Luriani gradually improved their technology
and culture. In around -28,000 the first signs of agriculture appeared on a
number of islands, animals were domesticated around -25,000, metalworking
was achieved around -15,000. When Vilani influenced traders contacted the
Luriani in -7500 they had advanced to a solid TL3. The Luriani were to prove
to be extremely adept in absorbing Vilani technology; and by -7200 they had
achieved TL9 and were launching their first "voyaging" ships to the stars.
By -6000 they had established a vigorous interstellar culture encompassing
most worlds within 10 parsecs of Derri. However the Luriani never developed
the idea of an interstellar state (much like they have never truly developed
a worldspaning government) and their worlds remained a loose grouping
closely bound only by their voyaging culture. However this situation was not
to remain.

In -5400 the Vilani began the Consolidation Wars. Initially the Vilani
ignored the Luriani, regarding their independent worlds as a lesser threat
than the many organised interstellar states that they faced. This was to
prove to be a miscalculation on the Vilani's part. When in -4900 the Vilani
attempted to conquer the Luriani worlds they found themselves opposed by a
coalition of all the Luriani worlds. The initial Vilani offensive was turned
back with heavy losses. However the Vilani returned in greater strength and
thus began the Luriani Campaigns. The Luriani were to prove to be formidable
opponents for the Vilani. The nature of their brains made three dimensional
combat second nature to the Luriani and their warrior class were very
efficient fighters. however eventually the superior economic weight of the
Vilani began to tell and one by one the Luriani worlds fell to the advancing
Vilani fleets; and in -4500 Derri fell and the Luriani were defeated and
despite several revolts were to remain under Vilani rule until the coming of
the Solomani in -2200

When the Vilani conquered the Luriani in -4500 they attempted to impose
their culture on the Luriani; Vilani governors were placed in control of
Luriani worlds and the Luriani were expected to conform to Vilani cultural
norms. These efforts were less than successful, though the Luriani did
remain firmly under the control of the Vilani, their culture remained
largely intact, the Vilani were never able to stamp out the emotional and
independent nature of the Luriani. Thus when the Solomani arrived in the
Fornast sector in -2223 they were greeted as liberators by the Luriani and a
number of Luriani units served in the Terran forces during their final drive
on Vland, proving that they had lost none of their fighting abilities. With
the final defeat of the Vilani in -2219 the Luriani expected that the
Solomani would restore their independence. However they were to be sadly
disappointed. Unlike the Geonee or Suerrat, the Luriani were not granted
autonomy under the Rule of Man. Naturally this bred resentment with in the
Luriani and in -2186 the Luriani rebelled against the Rule of Man. What
followed was a tragedy for the Luriani. Isolated with only a limited
production base, the Luriani faced an alliance of both Terran and Vilani
forces. The Luriani hoped that the other minor races would come to their
aid, these hopes proved futile and the Luriani were gradually worn down and
in -2180 their final stronghold fell and in a cruel turn of fate, the
Luriani again came under Vilani occupation. However under the Rule of Man,
Luriani art and music found a wide audience amongst the Solomani; and this
lead to widespread sympathy for the fate of the Luriani. Finally in -1932
Empress Juliana established the Luriani Cultural Region. With this the each
individual Luriani world was granted internal self rule, answering to a
Solomani planetary governor, with the entire region under the control of a
military governor general.

With the collapse of the Rule of Man in -1776, the Solomani governor general
of the Luriani Cultural Region found herself isolated and vulnerable.
Admiral Martinez solved her problems by reaching an agreement with the
Luriani. She transformed the Luriani Cultural Region into the Luriani
Protectorate. Under this compromise her fleet provided protection for the
Luriani in return for support, while the Luriani worlds were allowed to
retain their independence. The Protectorate continued to exist into the Long
Night; the Protectorate gradually evolved into a unique government. The
Solomani provided the much needed skills to administer a large scale
interstellar government, whilst the Luriani provided the necessary support
facilities and their warrior class came to dominate the Protectorate fleet.
Eventually however the Long Night claimed the Protectorate, by -1200 the
Protectorate fleet had dwindled to just a handful of vessels and contact
between the worlds had all but ceased. In -1183, Protector De Valine
acknowledged that the Protectorate could no longer defend the Luriani
worlds. The Solomani settled on the Luriani worlds and the Luriani
Protectorate succumbed to the Long Night.

The situation remained unchanged until the coming of the Syleans. The Sylean
Federation Scout Service reached the Luriani in -19. The arrival of the SFSS
reawakened the Luriani's desires for the stars, Derri had been able to
retain TL7 throughout the Long Night and the Solomani still remained a
distinct cultural grouping. Given the prod of the Syleans arrival, the
Luriani applied themselves to regaining the stars. It took the Luriani just
30 years to recover to TL9 and begin to reestablish the Protectorate. By 32,
the Luriani Protectorate was a thriving interstellar community once more,
encompassing most worlds within 5 parsecs of Derri. The Protectorate was a
curious state, one which the new Imperium found hard to understand or deal
with. The bulk of the population were Luriani by culture, but virtually all
the higher levels of administration were provided by the Solomani
"Protectors". Eventually the Imperium was forced to do something about the
Luriani. Initially they tried to incorporate the Luriani through diplomatic
means and initially this appeared to be a making progress, but negotiations
stumbled on the Protectorate demand to be allowed to retain its identity
within the Empire. In 79 Emperor Artemsus launched an offensive aimed at
incorporating the Protectorate. Once again the Luriani proved to be masters
of three dimensional warfare, in 84 the Imperial fleet suffered a sharp
defeat at the Battle of Gusashka and was forced to withdraw. It was now
clear that it would be a formidable task to incorporate the Luriani through
military means. In 85 a peace settlement was negotiated and the Imperium
returned to more indirect methods. From that time on relations between the
Protectorate and the Imperium remained strained, with many minor clashes
between Protectorate and Imperial forces.

**Physiology**
Unlike most known Human races, the Luriani are a discrete species (Homo
luriani) and are not interfertile with other Humans. However significant
portions of the Luriani genome were utilised by Rule of Man geneticists in
the "construction" of the Scanians, thus the Luriani are interfertile with
this branch of Humaniti.

Physiologically the Luriani are unmistakably Human, but they do possess a
number of unique identifying physical characteristics, however these
characteristics are only apparent on a close physical inspection. The
Luriani posses a transparent second eyelid which protects their eyes from
pressure and irritants, as well as acting to improve their vision under
water. They possess muscles which can seal the inner ear, protecting it at
extreme depths. They naturally produce a number of body oils which protect
them from cold and irritants. Both their feet and hands are webbed. However
their most notable adaptations are the fat cells they posses which store
oxygen. This allows them to collapse their lungs and reach far greater
depths (around 500m) than other Humans, as well as permitting them to remain
in an oxygen free environment for up to thirty minutes.

However, distinctive as all of these characteristics are, the most
remarkable modifications to the Luriani. The most remarkable and influential
adaptations in the Luriani are found in their brains. At least 93% of all
Luriani are right brain dominant and their language centres are located in
the regions of the brain more usually associated with music and singing.
These modifications, coupled with their close ties with the aquatic
environment have produced the distinctive features of the Luriani culture.

**Culture**
Luriani culture is strongly influenced by the right hemisphere dominant
nature of their brain. The Luriani are a creative, passionate and artistic
people. The usual Imperial stereotype of the hotblooded Luriani artist does
in fact have some basis in truth. Luriani music and art frequently reflects
the emotional tension that lies beneath the surface of their society, few
Humans can fail to be at least slightly affected by the pulsating up tempo
bass rhythms of Luriani music, even more so when coupled with the sensual
nature of Luriani dance. However, as with all stereotypes, this ignores the
vast sweep of Luriani culture.

Many outside observers characterise Luriani society as being communal; in
fact the Luriani are very strongly individualistic, but they utilise a form
of group marriage in which a number of adults will form a distinct family
grouping. Any children born into the family are regarded as brothers and
sisters and all the adults will regard them as their children. As a result
of the this, the universal Human incest taboo is slightly altered amongst
the Luriani. It is accepted that some "siblings" will form relationships
with their "brothers and sisters" during pubity. Such relationships are
discouraged, but they are accepted as long as the children do not share a
biological parent. However the relationships between the adults within the
family are in a constant state of flux.

The Luriani believe strongly in individual and family honour. The Luriani
code of honour evolved as a mechanism to limit the negative effects of the
Luriani's emotional nature. Luriani honour holds that effort and intent are
far more important than actual results; Luriani mythology is replete with
stories and examples of heroic failure. The three basic tenets of Luriani
honour are: protect your family; offer hospitality to all who seek it; and
treat your foes fairly. Unlike many other honour codes, the Luriani code
does not feature a physical duelling element, rather matters of personal
honour are settled by "contests". In a contest, the two parties will attempt
to complete some task or demonstrate mastery of a skill, usually artistic.
As long as both parties have made given their best, their is no stain on
one's honour for loosing such a contest. When it comes to warfare, the
Luriani hold that this is a matter for nations and tribes, not individuals;
thus war does not remove a Luriani's obligations on a personal level, even
when serving in the military.

**Art**
Art is one of the most important elements of Luriani culture, outside of the
Protectorate art is the most widely recognised aspect of their culture.
Luriani art reflects the turbulent and restless nature of their society,
very little Luriani art can be classified as static, the essence of their
art is the movement and energy found in their culture. The most prominent
Luriani art form is of course music, but they are also drawn to most other
performance arts (dance is almost as widely practiced as music). Other art
forms such as painting and sculpture are less common, but none the less are
still considered to be noble and honourable professions.

Luriani music is distinctive and unique, the most obvious defining
characteristic is its 10/8 time signature. However it also possesses a
number of other very distinctive characteristics. Virtually all Luriani
music makes extensive use of the voice as an instrument; and slight
differences in Luriani physiology has resulted their vocal cords being
longer than the Human norm, contributing to the strong base tendencies in
their music. Luriani singing also features a secondary voiced note when
inhaling in addition to the usual note when exhaling, leading to a
distinctive "breathy" sound (this effect is remarkably difficult for
non-Luriani to reproduce, lacking the Luriani's internal independent oxygen
source).

**Fashion**
Traditional Luriani clothing and appearance is almost as distinctive and
powerful as their music. Many have likened their fashions to those of the
Vargr. Traditional Luriani clothing is light weight and lose fitting;
intended to simultaneously functional and sensual. Luriani fashions are
intended to be provocative and revealing, whilst maintaining a sense of
mystery. The concept of utilitarian clothing which does not serve this
purpose appears to be entirely alien to the Luriani, thus all Luriani
clothing has to be serve this dual purpose (the Luriani were scandalised by
the Solomani and their "sack-like ship suits"). Luriani fashions do not use
muted or subdued colours, their clothing features many irregular blocks of
strong discordant colours with sharp dividing lines between them. These
blocks swirl and interlock, giving a sense of movement and energy. The
intention of the designer is to draw attention to certain parts of the body
and away from others.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"15 into 1 does go, I'm living proof"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #213
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 214



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: World generation modifiers
[none]
Re: World generation Modifications
ZSGG(tm) II
Re: Trade Classifications
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Captive governments
Glass Rod pictures (more culture)
Re: Character Creation & Social Levels
Re: more trade classifications
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:43:22 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: World generation modifiers

Marc Miller writes:

>Milieu World Generation Modification Table, V. 0.1
>  
>SYSTEM CONTENTS
> 	2D	PM	Belts	GG	Starport
> 	2	1	3	5	A
> 	3	2	2	4	A
> 	4	3	2	4	A
> 	5	4	1	3	B
> 	6	5	1	3	B
> 	7	5	-	2	C
> 	8	5	-	1	C
> 	9	6	-	1	D
> 	10	7	-	-	E
> 	11	8	-	-	E
> 	12	9	-	-	E
> 	Roll for Population Multiplier, Planetoid Belts, and Gas Giants
> independently. Record as single digits in the order PBG.

Generally I approve of your desire to stick to six-sided dice only, but
there are exceptions. The population multiplier is one such. Far better
to just say: "Generate a number between 1 and 9 with an equal chance of
each". Or if you insist on sticking to six-siders, have a "white die,
red die" table like the ones in the word generation tables and put each
of the 9 digits in 4 of the cells, yhus:


White	Red die
 die	1	2	3	4	5	6

  1	1	1	1	1	2	2
  2	2	2	3	3	3	3
  3	4	4	4	4	5	5
  4	5	5	6	6	6	6
  5	7	7	7	7	8	8
  6	8	8	9	9	9	9

 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:31:48 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: [none]

Thom Harris wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I never understood that.  Surely the most effective tactic is  to
>send in covert special ops teams to  neutralise  planetaty  meson
>guns prior to invading?  (Similar idea to Han Solo taking out the
>planet-based shield generator in Return Of The Jedi.)


Shades of the "Guns From Navarone" war movie based on a novel by Alistair
MacLain. (Not sure about the spelling of his name anymore.)
Thom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Or for those Battlestar Galactica fans...The Gun on Ice Planet Zero!!!

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:15:53 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

In a message dated 98-02-23 12:21:19 EST, you write:

<< 
 I use a ten-sided die for this, and reroll on 10. But then, I'm a heretic.
 
  >>
That's the problem. By definition, the Traveller universe recognizes only six
sided regular solids.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:21:04 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: ZSGG(tm) II

Leonard gets personal and asks:

>And where did *you* find out about those (quite real) rubber bands? :-)

I grew up in a small town in Illinois, Hog Factory Farm capitol of the world.
It is difficult to avoid the most intimate details of agriculture in such a
place.

>Reminds me of the quite common scene where a "bad guy" goes into a room
>where a captive is being interrogated, carrying a teaspoon. Horrible
>screams are heard, and he emerges with the info.

Edmund Blackadder III: "Baldric, an eternity with Satan and all of his demons
will be more enjoyable to you than five minutes with _me_ and this pencil!"

Two of my favorite "we have ways of making you talk" scenes both come from
Raiders of the Lost Ark:

Scene A) Marian, threatened by sadistic Nazi with red-hot poker: "I'll tell
you everything you want to know!"

SNw/RHP (continuing to advance towards her, whispering, barely able to contain
his excitement): "Yes -- I know you will."


Scene B: Marian captive again (that happens a lot in this movie) Sadistic Nazi
shows up again, removes his trenchcoat, hands it to an aide, and then takes
out a horrible-looking device with chaines and hooks and Nasty Bits(tm) all
over it. SN makes three quick motions with his hands, and turns the device
into a travel coat hanger, which the aide uses to hang up the SN's trenchcoat.

Great stuff, one spine-chilling, one funny as all get out, and they use the
first to set you up for the second. Kasdan was a genius.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:01:24 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Trade Classifications

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 98-02-23 07:08:18 EST, you write:
><<
> To put it in perspective, name me a "trade item" from a land mass on
> earth that qualifies as "barren".
>  >>
>
>Meteorites from the ice field of Antarctica?
>Similarly ice cores. Seismographic data? Gold nuggets.

Mothballed military equipment stored in a desert?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:36:14 -0500
From: "Clark, William" <Clark@bessemer.com>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

Why not use 1d3 and 1d3 as follows

	1	2	3
1	1	2	3
2	4	5	6
3	7	8	9

Linear distribution of 9 numbers.

Bill Clark
clark@bessemer.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:03:16 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:

>I don't think that there would strict classes for each occupatuion.  Since
>we have the Cr. 250/month per point of SOC rule back, if you get a high
>paying job, your SOC will rise as you maintain a higher lifestyle.  For
>example, a doctor who was born dirt poor (SOC 3) but makes enough money to
>maintain SOC 10 will be SOC 10 after a time.  In a similar vein, a SOC 9
>businessman who loses everything won't be able to maintain appearences and
>his SOC will fall.

Marc,

are you going to put in the rules how long it takes to raise SOC by
spending at a level?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:46:40 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Captive governments

Michael Koehne writes:
> 	- is it legal to translate "captative colony" with
> 	  "Konzentrationslager" ?

Hardly. A captive government is one that is imposed from outside. It need
not be a repressive government. If it is one imposed by a (comparatively)
benevolent society on a previously repressive society it could have all
aspects of a liberal society except for free elections.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
- - "You don't like the Goths?"
- -  "No! Not with the persecution we have to put up with!"
- -  "Persecution?"
- -  "Religious persecution. We wont stand for it forever."
- -  "I thought the Goths let everybody worship as they pleased."
- -  "That's  just  it!  We Orthodox are forced to stand around and
   watch Arians  and Monophysites  and Nestorians  and Jews going
   about  their  business  unmolested,   as  if  they  owned  the
   country. If that isn't persecution, I'd like to know what is!"

                -Martin Padway and stranger in bar in
                         "Lest Darkness Fall"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:20:14 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Glass Rod pictures (more culture)

All these postings about various cultural oddments made me decide to dig
out an old Library Data entry I wrote years ago about a different art form:

GLASS ROD PICTURES:  Art  form originating among the Vilani of the
Darmine  region  around  -4000.  Later spread to most parts of the
First Empire.  Enjoyed  a revival among the Solomani of the Easter
Concord from -800 to -400.
    Glas rod pictures are made by stacking very thin glass rods of
varying  colours to create patterns.  The rods are tightly clamped
in  a frame to prevent shifting and displayed in front of a clear,
white light.

                      __________________
                 _ _ _|_ ________    | |
                0 0 0 0 0________)   | |
                 0 0 0 0________)    | |
Glass rods ---> 0 0 0 0 0________)   | |   <--- Light placed
                 0 0 0 0________)    | |        behind plate
                0 0 0 0 0________)   | |
                      |______________|_|
                              ^
                              |
                    Matt white glass plate


The  most common form of glass rod pictures are the loose pictures
described above. Once an artist has created a picture,  a computer
can  analyse  the  pattern  and direct the creation of duplicates,
each in one sense as genuine as the original.
    Another form is the FUSED picture.  Once the rods are in place
the  artist apply strong heat in measured amounts to fuse them to-
gether.  Part of the effect comes from the merging of the rods and
these  pictures  are  very difficult to copy.  A third form is the
FUSED  IRREGULAR  picture.  Although  glass rods are produced in a
large number of colours, some artists achieve even subtler nuances
by  using  rods of irregular lengths.  Such a picture is virtually
impossible to copy.

I had in mind to use a famous glass rod picture as a clue in a tresure hunt,
but I never got around to writing the adventure. Here is the entry about the
goal of the hunt:

"PRIDE OF THE RIM":  Legendary  treasure ship which disappeared in
- -1690  and has since become the object of numerous fruitless trea-
sure hunts.
    When the bankrupt Rim Province went into voluntary liquidation
in -1690,  the planetary governor of Gashurzid (Solomani Rim 2602)
organized a coup.  He commandeered a 1.000.000 T ore transport and
renamed  it  PRIDE OF THE RIM.  He  thereupon  through a number of
manouvres of spurious legality contrived to have it's holds filled
with  precious  metal ingots,  state-of-the-art electronics,  rare
pharmaceuticals,  precious stones and other valuables, topping off
with  the  cream  of more than 2000 years worth of accumulated art
treasures looted from the top museums of the world.
    Escorted  by  a  squadron  of 2nd Empire cruisers he then left
Gashurzid en route for Terra.  But on the second jump PRIDE OF THE
RIM  failed  to  appear  at the other end.  The escort immidiately
organized  a search of the surrounding star systems,  but no trace
of the PRIDE was ever found.
    As  none of the identifiable parts of the cargo have ever been
seen again either, it is generally believed that the PRIDE suffer-
ed  a misjump,  and that it and its vast fortune is still drifting
around  somewhere  in  interstellar space.  PRIDE OF THE RIM is to
this  day  a  popular  bait  amongst  confidence tricksters of the
Solomani Rim.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:25:12 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Character Creation & Social Levels

Marc Miller writes:
>>From the charts for T4.1
>
>SOCIAL STANDING
>	Soc	Equivalent
>	0	
>	1	
>	2	Dregs of Society
>	3	Lower Low Class
>	4	Middle Low Class
>	5	Upper Low Class
>	6	Lower Middle Class
>	7	Middle Class
>	8	Upper Middle Class
>	9	Lower Upper Class
>	A	Middle Upper Class
>	B	Upper Upper Class
>	C	Remarkable
>	D	Extraordinary
>	E	Extreme
>	F	
>Social Standing indicates social class and the level of society from which
>the character comes.
>
> NOBLE TITLES
> 	The Imperium issues noble titles which are reflected in personal social
> standing.
> 	B	Knight.
> 	C	Baron.
> 	D	Marquis.
> 	E	Count.
> 	F	Duke.
> 	There are ranks above F, but the system generally reserves them for
>non- player characters.
> 	G	Archduke
> 	H	Emperor

A question and two comments:

What would SL 1 equate to?

I don't know if it is any use repeating this -- I guess it depends on
whether you've seen my previous postings on the subject  --  but there
is IMO something wrong with a system that distinguishes between 10
different levels of non-nobles and then lumps all non-imperial nobles
from the equivalent of a European baron to the equivalent of Napoleon
into one social class. I realize that such is more or less inevitable
if you only have 15 social classes to play with and want to use 5 of
them for Imperial nobility and 10 for non-nobles, but what I don't
understand is why it is necessary to stick to 15 classes. You've already
broken the principle that all stats must be reducible to a single
hexadecimal digit with several other stats (planetary governments and
ship sizes to name but two). Indeed, it's _already_ broken WRT social
levels by the Archdukes and the Emperor, although that will not affect
PCs much. I've previously proposed extending the system to 33 classes
with the Imperial nobles occupying the levels from 24 to 33 and the
levels from 12 to 22 used for the the minor, planetary nobility. This
could be done without changing the Character Generation system at all;
you'd merely change the interpretation. No longer would PCs have an
excellent chance of winding up as Imperial nobles, but IMO that is an
added bonus; while it is possible to device adventures for characters
with more clout than Napoleon or to come up with a handwave to explain
why an Imperial duke dosen't have much clout at all, it is damn difficult.

 
> SUPPORT
> 	Social standing determines the cost to that individual for basic
>	living. Cr250 x Soc = Typical cost of monthly support (food,
>	clothes, lodging, basic entertainment).

This rule has the advantage of simplicity, but that is IMO the only
advantage it has. It is both broken in itself (Think about it: the
difference in cost of living between the two lowest levels of society
is 100% while the difference between two adjacent high levels is 10%
or less; if that had been reversed it would make a lot more sense) and
not compatible with the costs of food and lodging given in CT (and T4).
Starvation level is Cr150 per month and subsistence level is Cr450 per
month. But average, ordinary living can be had for Cr600 per month (This
is based on the assumption that roughly the same amount of money is used
on food, lodging, and basic necessities). You're having a Middle Class
person using Cr1750 per month. Average food is Cr200 and average lodging
is Cr200. That means he is using Cr1350 (the equivalent of somewhere
between US$2700 and US$4000, right?) on clothes and basic necessities
and entertainment. Does that sound right?

A much better approximation is that it is just possible to keep up a
lifestyle appropiate to one's SL for SL+2 time 50 credits per month,
with people usually spending SL times 10% more if they can afford it
(a small table would be sufficient to make it clear).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8


I append my proposed social classes so you can see what I mean:


Description                       Social     UPP       Old Terran 
				 Standing   code       Equivalent

Near-noble (Gentry)                 12        C          Squire
Appointed noble                     13        D          Knight
Very rich/powerful non-noble        14        E          Magnate
Hereditary noble, no base           15        F         Banneret
Town-sized base (1000)              16        G           Baron

County-sized base (10,000)          17        H        Count/Earl
Region-sized base (100,000)         18        J       Marquis/Duke
Province-sized base (1 million)     19        K      Archduke/Prince

Country-sized base (10 million)     20        L           King
Empire-sized base (100 million)     21        M          Emperor
Continent-sized base (1 billion)    22        N             -
World-sized base (10 billion)       23        P             -

Pre-industrial society		    -4  Sovereign ruler			+1
Industrial society                  -2  Elected or appointed official   -1
Pre-stellar society                 -1  Heir to position                -1
Early Stellar society                0  Younger children                -2
Average Stellar society             +1
High Stellar society                +2  Minor non-human race            -1

All modifications are guidelines only. Positions that reach 24 and above
will almost invariably recieve an Imperial noble title (So the ruler of a
planet with billions of citizens and a High Stellar technology would be at
least an Imperial marquis, propably more).

Title                                Social      UPP
				    Standing    Code

Baron                                  24         Q
Marquis                                25         R
Freeholder                             26         S
Count                                  27         T
Scion                                  28         U
Duke                                   29         V
Senior Duke                            30         W
Archduke/Prince                        31         X
Crown Prince                           32         Y
Emperor                                33         Z


There are a few new titles that requires explanation: Freeholder was a
leftover from the days of the Sylean Federation. It was never awarded by
the 3rd Imperium and by the time of the Collapse there were only four
remaining freeholders. Consequently most people had never heard of the
title. Scion was a title given to the children of Imperial princes and
princesses who didn't have another title of their own. The children of
scions were not automatically Imperial nobles. If, for example, Paulo III
had not given his brother Asan a dukedom, Asan would still have been a
prince, but his daughter Cassir would have been a scion and her daughter
Margaret would not have been a noble (Though in practice both Cassir and
Margaret would almost certainly had marrired high nobles). As it is, they
were both duchesses. Since most Imperial princes and princesses did
recieved fiefs of their own or married nobles, the title was never used
much.

I put in freeholders, scions and senior dukes so that even if a referee
didn't want to abandon the official 17 classes of Social Standing, he could
still use the ideas by simply halving the numbers (rounding up). That would
cause Imperial nobles to have the correct Social Standing according to the
official system. (It would be necessary to device some new way to roll
Social Standing for PCs and NPCs, since the minor nobles would occupy the
levels from 7 to 11, so if SS was rolled with two dice, you'd have a society
with more than half of the population nobles.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:35:51 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: more trade classifications

In a message dated 98-02-23 18:59:38 EST, you write:

<< 
 All Barren worlds (pop 0) worlds are low population (pop 4-).
 All Low Population (pop 4-) worlds are Non-Industrial (pop 0-6).
 
 Thus Barren worlds get nailed thrice for its 0 population...
 Is that intentional?
 
  >>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:16:54 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> >> for example, a doctor who was born dirt poor (SOC 3) but makes enough money to
> >> maintain SOC 10 will be SOC 10 after a time.  In a similar vein, a SOC 9
> >> businessman who loses everything won't be able to maintain appearences and
> >> his SOC will fall.
> >
> >Either way would be the basis for a longer campaign. How does it all
> >happen to/for your PC('s)??  What effect would a major belt strike (by
> >design or by accident) have on your PC('s) in the midst of your present
> >game circumstance ??
> 
> My rule is that it takes several months of spending to raise the social
> level for a PC.  This accounts for learning the rope sof your new station,
> buying the right toys, etc.  A group of belters who suddenly can afford to
> spend Cr 3750 a month won't be partying with the Duke any time soon.

I would agree with that as well. Word would get around, and the PC may
get invited to higher class party's, but his social will not rise unless
he wins approval. Likewise the business person may be able to sustain
his perceived station for some time after going down, but only as long
as he can keep up the front. Yes or no ??

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:27:34 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

>>The problem with equipment in Traveller is that game balance must be
>>retained.
>If you believe in the concept of "game balance". Personally I don't. Any
>dynamic system has a point of balance. It is up to a referee to work out
>what that is, and put the setting near that point.

Right.  I will, however, take the position that it is significantly easier
on the GM to keep the capabilities of any device 'down' to a 'reasonable'
level to prevent the chronic problem of not being able to think through all
the implications of a particular device with the same diligence of a
player.  Within that realm there is still a lot of capability and
imagination allowed, but the tendancy to rely on 'super-tech' rather than
brains and ingenuity (and I admit the line is blurry there in places) can
be reduced to an extent.

I also get bored/tired of continual 'tech versus tech' battles that Jo
mentioned.  It makes no sense for a small private Import/Export company on
a TL9 world to have advanced TL14 anti-burglary sensors (unless of course
they are a Zhodani Secret Safe House), hence any such company office is
'wide open' to PCs with a stealth suit of the 'over the top' type.  In the
game balance scenario where the suit is super-capable, I need to come up
with a rationale for that small company to have advanced anti-burglary
equipment, any such rationale seems far-fetched at a certain point, since I
also don't want every criminal walking the street to have one of these
things.

Other problems arise when you admit that the same technology can be applied
to cars, guns, spacecraft, etc.  Hey! why not make a bag out of the stuff
to put guns in to smuggle through customs?  Or how about an invisible
grav-maserati zipping around the city?  The potential implications can
be...a strain on the imagination beyond the usual ones.

[snip]
>Another point that doesn't seem to have been taken up (or I just haven't
>seen) is that we don't have to shoot for 100% here.
[snip]

Right.

>>More likely is a sound absorbing material,
[snip]
> Imagine that you had a suit where each point on the
>surface was, actually, a small fiber optic wire connected to the
>diametrically opposed point on your other side. If you stood infront of
>something the light from behind you would "shine through you" out the other
>side.

Hmm, How is this different (aside from being a more complete explanation of
the how) from the chameleon option?  It seems to  me that the chameleon
covering at its highest TLs is measuring light from all directions and
'changing its spots' in the diametrically opposed direction to match.  Of
course, the chameleon coating would lose out in certain situations, like if
it were directly between the observer and a very bright source like the
setting sun/star.  Perhaps you fiber-optic like idea would be more up to
that.

[snip]
>Nor is this technique limited to visual. You could also pass through low
>level sound or ultra-sound (see recent developments in solid-state
>speakers), IR, or whatever. This might also form a clever way to dump your
>excess heat. You analyse the IR that is passing through you and add your
>own IR (or a portion thereof) in with an appropriate dispersion so as to
>fool most detection software.

I know you're going to tell me its all EM energy, but I would think it
would take something different to handle the visual vs audible spectrum of
EM energy.  Hence I feel the ultrasonic defeating strategy and the visible
light defeating strategy would need to be different.  strategies for light
and UV, IR and other nearby bands could be the same though.

>>I knew of this tech, (IR adsorbtion) but thought the suit was
>significantly
>>heavier/bulkier than what I was envisioning.  Just the implications of a
>>"Chill Can" contradicts my picture of a device which is mostly passive
>>in its effectiveness.
>I wouldn't have thought so. It is just a dump for the heat.
[snip]

Current Traveller examples of this technology are mounted on battle dress.
We have no closer example to draw from, so I would suggest that it takes a
more substantial layer of material to accomodate such a network (of
superconducting heat absorption fibers), and a 'real' quantity of volume
for any effective heat sink (a 1/4 liter or so at TL14) and its associated
stuff.

At least up until TL15.

[snip]

>>I'm not sure what you are saying here, respiration occurs through a
>simple,
>>noise suppressed, mask.
>What, I beleive, he is saying is that instead of having a single outlet for
>the air, it is dispersed through the entire surface of the suit. Think of
>the suit like a baloon. Instead of letting all the air out through one
>orifice (no wisecracks please), imagine instead you had little holes all
>over it. That way you don't get any strong air currents or so forth. It
>shouldn't be that difficult to do if the surface is permiable to it at that
>level. You just work it so the whole suit in permiable at a low level and
>also filters out unwanted.
>Of course it will need some dry cleaning job at the end of it all!

Not a bad idea, but I think the detector that would pick up such currents
is obscure.  Perhaps more aof a point-heat source dissipater, but then
you'd make the whole person a heat source.


>>The suit is not *that* capable.  Against the mark 1 eyeball, and mark 1
>>ear, it is excellent.
>Which is all you need 90% of the time. I'm sold.

well I'm glad someone likes it (in fact, Jo's the one who matters most,
since he's the one who's character asked for it - from a Catholic monisgnor
no less!).

Next chapter; Remote Recon Drones!

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
 Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- -Hamlet, Act 1 Scene 5

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:35:14 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

Walt Smith wrote:
> Thom Harris wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >I never understood that. Surely the most effective tactic is to
> >send in covert special ops teams to neutralise planetaty meson
> >guns prior to invading? (Similar idea to Han Solo taking out the
> >planet-based shield generator in Return Of The Jedi.)
>
> Shades of the "Guns From Navarone" war movie based on a novel by Alistair
> MacLain. (Not sure about the spelling of his name anymore.)
> Thom
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Or for those Battlestar Galactica fans...The Gun on Ice Planet Zero!!!
>

However, in "Guns From  Navarone",  "Return  Of  The  Jedi",  and
"Battlestar Galactica" these are special cases.  But  _if_  meson
gun emplacements are commonly used  for  planetary  defense  then
this sort of covert mission would also  be  common.  In  the  5FW
game you could perhaps say that such installations  are  included
in a world's SDB rating ... but in that case wouldn't  the  Zho's
have an advantage: once a small teleporting Zho commando team  is
on the planet's surface they would find it easier to  locate  and
penetrate a PD installation  than  their  Imperial  counterparts.
Also, in the long-term prepartions for war (either  as  aggressor
or  defender)  both  sides  would  be   heavily   involved   with
intelligence missions to locate these installations and penetrate
them with sleeper  agents  ...  you  can  imagine  the  level  of
paranoia that the defenders of a  PD  installation  would  suffer
even in peace time.

Just thinking out loud, but should the Zho's have a  minor  bonus
to their anti-SDB rolls? ... and shouldn't  there  be  some  step
during 5FW set-up to determin (secretly) which 'SDB's  have  been
compromised by pre-war intelligence missions? ... and even  while
'covert' wouldn't the Ine Givar still be able  to  contribute  to
this phase of warfare?

Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen
"If eating animals is wrong, why are they made of meat?"
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:57:17 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

Jim Cooper wrote:
> Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> > My rule is that it takes several months of spending to raise the social
> > level for a PC. This accounts for learning the rope sof your new
station,
> > buying the right toys, etc. A group of belters who suddenly can afford
to
> > spend Cr 3750 a month won't be partying with the Duke any time soon.
>
> I would agree with that as well. Word would get around, and the PC may
> get invited to higher class party's, but his social will not rise unless
> he wins approval. Likewise the business person may be able to sustain
> his perceived station for some time after going down, but only as long
> as he can keep up the front. Yes or no ??

I suppose ideally you want to integrate the  En Guard  rules  for
Social Level change into Traveller.  (Being seen with the 'right'
people, contributing to worthy causes, patronising the  Arts  ...
in _addition_ to conspicous spending.)  Also, there should  be  a
difference between Social Level and Noble Title, even if the  two
factors are related (spending like a Duke  will  not  get  you  a
Duchy).

Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen
"If eating animals is wrong, why are they made of meat?"
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #214
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 215



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Success and Failure
Beginnings v0.96beta (for DOS) ready!
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Hamsters Got Guns!
Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit : Reply to comments
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Planetary meson guns (was: Surface Damage (was:  Traveller Digest yadayadayada))
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:45:25 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

At 06:13 PM 2/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Clark Crawford wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> > In a message dated 98-02-21 13:03:28 EST, you write:
>> >
>> > <<
>> >  >    Roll for Population Multiplier, Planetoid Belts, and Gas Giants
>> >  >independently. Record as single digits in the order PBG.
>> >
>> >  I'd prefer to stay with 2D6-2 for Population Multiplier

<snipped various dice rolling schemes>

Umm.. I'm fully capable of following a rule that saws "disregard results of
0 or 10."
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:57:21 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

>>If you believe in the concept of "game balance". Personally I don't.
>Right.  I will, however, take the position that it is significantly easier
>on the GM to keep the capabilities of any device 'down' to a 'reasonable'
>level to prevent the chronic problem of not being able to think through
all
>the implications of a particular device with the same diligence of a
>player.
:-) Yeah. Practicalities always seem to win out, yes? I've only known one
DM who has used the dynamic balance concept...

>I also get bored/tired of continual 'tech versus tech' battles that Jo
>mentioned.
Ah, but, the other side of the coin is that once you separate but too many
tech levels, you can get bitten the other way. I usually assume a 2-3 tech
level blind spot. For example:

Say Sgt. Superdude has his top-of-the-line TL15 stealth suit and feels it
should be a doddle to break into a TL4 compound. He para-sails in, switches
on super-invisible mode, and strolls about.
Then he steps on a caltrop. The super respiration adsorption filter stifles
his scream as the rusty point penetrates his plastic, non shedding sole,
and he limps bravely on. It isn't long, though, before Woofer, their
security dog, catches the sound of the gravel rubbing on the gravel as he
moves through the courtyard. He  barks and gives chase (as he does several
times a night, anyway) once he catches the whiff of blood on the discarded
caltrop.
Sgt. Superdude, irrationally fearing the dog, having forgotten his suit's
built in DNA filters, runs toward a disused corner hoping to hide behind
some brush (having forgotten his suits chameleon option). Unfortunately he
steps on the cover to a pit trap and plummets 3 meters down onto spikes.
To his relief his anti-puncture layer works against blunt wooden spikes,
whereas it failed against the sharper caltrop although the bruises are
going to smart. Bells attached to the cover attract the world's attention,
though, and the pit is quickly surrounded by SMG wielding guards and dogs
who are going mad (for no particular reason, they're just excited).
Fortunately, again, the super shade option of his suit blends him in to the
flashlight pierced gloom of the pit as he lies still and waits for them to
go away.
Eventually the guards go, as they assume the dogs are just excited. Sgt.
Superdude eventually levers himself to his feet and finds a convenient tree
root to pull himself up to the surface. Unfortunately the tree root is
false and merely opens up a septic tank drain which drenches him and fills
the pit, ringing more bells. The guards return, with even more excited
dogs, see that _something_ is sloshing around the sewage and empty a few
clips from their SMGs for good measure.
Lying bruised, battered, half-submerged in sewage with a few flesh wounds
from the low penetration bullets, Sgt. Superdude contemplates his fate as
the guards finish their cigarettes, toss the buts down the pit. He signals
for extraction.

Now exceptionally clever (anal) players might keep a variety of stealth
suits for each tech level so they are always one, and just one, step ahead.
I'm a firm believer in Achilles heels, in both directions. A group of
low-ish tech PCs took out a TL15 scout ship with a cannon mounted on their
spacecraft. (No IR trace, too low mass for densiometer readings, too slow
for doppler shifts. Bang!)

>Or how about an invisible
>grav-maserati zipping around the city?
Erk, the traffic hazards. Personally I'd like Grav-Busses to be able to see
me!

>> Imagine that you had a suit where each point on the
>>surface was, actually, a small fiber optic wire connected to the
>Hmm, How is this different from the chameleon option?
None, I guess. Just an implementation detail.

>I know you're going to tell me its all EM energy, but I would think it
>would take something different to handle the visual vs audible spectrum
No, you are right. Audio is not EM. It is quite different from Visual. To
do audio what you need is for the top layer of your suit to be able to
vibrate. (Someone has recently patented a solid-state speaker that works
like this.) That's why I said _low intensity_ sound. Otherwise you would
have to walk around with the equivalent of a Ghetto Blaster covering your
skin :-).

>Not a bad idea, but I think the detector that would pick up such currents
>is obscure.
Ah, hell. Ash patched one together out of spare parts in just a few hours
in Alien :-).
You could always hang a few threads in your room...

Cheers,
Jo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:58:54 -0400
From: Dale Poole <DPoole@therston.rc.hollandc.pe.ca>
Subject: Success and Failure

I finally remembered my third question! (regarding T4 Combat)

In the case of Spectacular success, the book states that the minimum
possible roll to achieve success, equals a spectacular success.

This almost always comes out to rolling all ones on a task.  So that
would be a single 1 one a 1D test, two 1's on a 2D test, etc...

In the case of a Spectacular failure, the book states two 6's on ANY roll
indicate spectacular failure.

I have two questions:

1.  For a Spec Success, how are the rolls handled for the half dice?  My
assumption is that in the case of a Difficult task (2.5D), Spec Success is
achieved on a roll of 3 (two dice rolling 1's and the half die rolling a 1 or
2)

2.  Does the number of sixes rolled increase for a Spec Failure, as the
difficulty increases too?  For example, on an Difficult test (2.5D), Spec
Failure is achieved ona roll of 9( two dice rolling 6's and the half die
rolling a 6).

Or does the rule of 6 apply only with full and not half dice?  For
example, Spec Failure is achieved for an Average AND Difficult test
when two 2 dice roll 6's; for a Formidible and Staggering test when 3
dice roll 6's; etc.

Or is it ALWAYS when 2 dice roll 6's, regardless of difficulty?

If it is ALWAYS when 2 dice roll 6's, could someone explain the
rationale for me?  It doesn't seem logical.

Thanks for your help!

Daleus
dpoole@therston.rc.hollandc.pe.ca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:03:52 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Beginnings v0.96beta (for DOS) ready!

Greetings! The latest version of Beginnings, my T4 chargen program (DOS)
is up on the Pan-Imperia web page. I'd appreciate as always anyone down-
loading the program to please inform me of any bugs, mistakes, omissions,
additions, or anything else you feel like expressing. The next version will
have the Technician character added to it courtesy of Paolo Marino's fine
work, and hopefully will have the skills help page fully typed in and
formatted. You'll find the Pan-Imperia site
looks a little different as well, 'tis the season for updating web pages it
seems. I will very shortly have deckplans and a descriptive write up for the 
"Long John" Cargo Hauler on the page in the same style as the "Guppy".
Stay tuned to the TML for that announcement.

NEW TO BEGINNINGS v0.96beta:

v0.96:  Released February 23, 1998.

        1) I think I've finally tracked down the rank bug in Navy careers
        (begins dodging fruit and catcalls <g>). The program was finally
        keeping track of the correct ranks, it just wasn't telling the printer
        or the save file what the correct rank *was*.
        
        2) Fixed the Diplomat bug where it would give you a normal chance of
        enlisting on the first attempt and then an astronomical chance on the
        subsequent attempts due to an undefined variable value. This also (I
        think) fixes the ability to re-enlist as a Diplomat an infinite number
        of times.
    
        3)Fixed bug in Navy career that allowed Social Standing to go above 15
        with promotions.

        4) Skills are now complete up to Camoflage; a few interface and color
        changes made; more will be input as I have time to work on it.

That's it for this time, as before I want to release a program that does the
actual process of chargen *correctly* before I pretty it up. Let me know 
what you find, what corrections need to be made, any bugs still crawling
about, and what you'd like to see, and hopefully in a week or two the 
mythical "Version 1.0" will be ready for the light of day.

**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:30:50 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

>I also get bored/tired of continual 'tech versus tech' battles that Jo
>mentioned.  It makes no sense for a small private Import/Export company on
>a TL9 world to have advanced TL14 anti-burglary sensors (unless of course
>they are a Zhodani Secret Safe House), hence any such company office is
>'wide open' to PCs with a stealth suit of the 'over the top' type.  In the
>game balance scenario where the suit is super-capable, I need to come up
>with a rationale for that small company to have advanced anti-burglary
>equipment, any such rationale seems far-fetched at a certain point, since I
>also don't want every criminal walking the street to have one of these
>things.

It makes perfect sense for a import/export company on a TL9 world to have TL14
anti-burglary sensors.  It doesn't even require any handwaving if there's a
TL14 planet within a jump or two away.

Free traders and commercial trading companies don't exist to trade only
novelties, natural resources and animal specimens across the Imperium.  They
exist to trade all kinds of goods, TL14 security systems included.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:25:44 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

At 04:57 PM 2/24/98 +0000, you wrote:

>I suppose ideally you want to integrate the  En Guard  rules  for
>Social Level change into Traveller.  (Being seen with the 'right'
>people, contributing to worthy causes, patronising the  Arts  ...
>in _addition_ to conspicous spending.)  Also, there should  be  a
>difference between Social Level and Noble Title, even if the  two
>factors are related (spending like a Duke  will  not  get  you  a
>Duchy).

I agree with the second part.  I've always held that a high Social Standing
didn't automatically mean a noble title.  The Regional director of GSbAG
might be SOC 13, and still be a coomoner, but a very rich and powerful
commoner.  As for the being seen and doing good works, that's part of the
expenditure of credits.  I tend to see SOC as a indication of how people
view you, so a upper-class person who ends up on skid row isn't going to
automatically have the advantages of his birth.  The only exception uis for
actual nobles.  I keep track of their true SOC along with their apparent
level.  This allows some fun when the scruffy ship's engineer steps forward
and reveals himself as the heir to the Duchy of Glisten.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:35:06 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Hamsters Got Guns!

Steven Hudson wrote (02/12/98):
> >>Tsk. You've been warned about this before. Now we have to take steps.
> >>Perhaps you noticed that slight flickering on the screen as the message
> >>loaded? That was the TMV[1] uploading. Don't worry, you won't feel a
> >>thing. Soon you'll *know* that you are a normal member of 20th century
> >>Terran culture.
> >
> ><squeak> <wriggle nose> <jump on wheel> <run in circles> <soil cage>
> ><breed> <squeak>
> ^^^^...
> >Seattle Institute for Biomedical and Clinical Research
>
> Het, how big a PMPP can a hamster _use_, anyway?

If hamsters have  guns,  and  some  at  least  are  organised  as
hamster-troopers, then it follows that you need hamster APCs  (or
AHCs).  My God, I've got it: that's  what  those  shoe-box  sized
things are zipping along the corridors of the Death Star in  Star
Wars!  :-^

Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen
"If eating animals is wrong, why are they made of meat?"
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 03:54:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

In mail you write:

> KKMs will have a lot of trouble for this reason. Basically if your
> laser can wreak a sensor, it can kill a missile. This is why it is
> so hard to do a roll back attack in traveller--lasers can kill
> missiles faster than a moidern warship can with missiles.

Actually, the trouble with KKMs is that at the required speeds, they
don't steer worth a damn. So terminal guidance is pretty much a bad
joke anyway.

>> Things like densitometers and gravity detectors could be buried behind
>> protective armour, since I do not believe their proximity to the surface of
>> a ship is necessary for them to function.
>  
> They would be pretty useless as sensors for things other than
> astrophysics/geology.

Depends. They may be useful for detecting ships at "close" ranges. At
least enough to give other sensors an idea of where to look.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 04:02:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit : Reply to comments

In mail you write:

> The problem with equipment in Traveller is that game balance must be
> retained.  If, in actual use, I gave the people I play with the
> capabilities some responders have mentioned the Galaxy wouldn't be safe
> anymore and all my adventures would be walkovers.

Actually, most "hypertech" type stuff tends to be self correcting. The
players learn fairly quickly that if *they* can get it, not only can
their enemies get it, but the more "well funded" of them can get
*better*. <evil grin>

> Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com> said;
>>Most security systems IMTU use ultrasonic motion detectors, similar to a
>>bat's sonar. Another advantage for high-tech stealth suits would be a sonic
>>dampening module which listens for ultrasonic frequencies and transmits a
>>phase-inverted frequency. This could also be used with audible sounds; so
>>the wearer could talk into a throat mike and not be heard by someone
>>standing next to her.
>
> Wave cancellation is a proposed sonar defeating technology, but in that
> mode would require enormous amounts of equipment and energy.  There are
> also engineering problems associated with the very first second or so of
> transmitted signal; it is "impossible" to get a cancelling signal back to
> the source within the first few moments.  This problem would be multiplied
> with a detector that was frequency agile.
>
> More likely is a sound absorbing material, similar to the radar absorbing
> material on stealth aircraft, which simply tends not to reflect the sound
> waves.

Trouble is that when that becomes practical, the *home* level detectors
will upgrade to "imaging" detectors. That is, they'll be able to note
that they are no longer getting a return from part of the wall that the
intruder is standing in front of. Some *current* systems are almost at
this level (I'm talking "high-end" home security, not "industrial"!)

> "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com> said;
>>I would think that IR masking would *definitely* be included.  Combat
>>Environment Suits (TL 10) have basic IR masking using a chemical chill can
>>which makes them IR invisible for 45 minutes and at TL 12 the suits can
>>have a chameleon option which "selectively bleeds heat to match the
>>background IR level, effectively rendering the solider invisible to IR
>>sensors."  From Mercenary (CT Book 4) page 41.  The CE suit is in CT, MT,
>>and TNE, and in CT & MT it weighs 2 kg, so this IR masking doesn't weigh
>>very much.
> [snip]
>
> I knew of this tech, but thought the suit was significantly heavier/bulkier
> than what I was envisioning.  Just the implications of a "Chill Can"
> contradicts my picture of a device which is mostly passive in its
> effectiveness.
>
> It does seem a reasonable variation on the theme though, based on the 2 kg
> weight.

Also, I have *great* difficulty believing in a 2kg "can" that can
absorb the required number of kilocalories of heat. That implies an
*unreal* heat capacity.

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said;
>>BIG problem. The person *has* to be able to sweat.
>
> Moisture is allowed to evapourate.  What is not liberated is relatively
> large traces of DNA traceable materials such as skin, hair, etc.
>
>>I haven't read anything about it since the 60s, but even then they were
>>working on detectors to pick up the microgram amounts of the *enormous*
>>number of volatiles a huan (or other animal/plant) body gives off and
>>using it to detect intruders.
>
> Remember that for every detector there will be a counter.  That's exactly
> the point of this item.  Also, the item is pretty much limited to
> non-military and/or routine levels of security rather than being
> invulnerable to all sensors at any tech level.

Odor/chemical sensors will be down to "home use" well before TL15.
Probably before TL12. But an activated characoal liner (disposable)
masy be able to handle most of that.

>>On the plus side, this will make it an excellent CBN garment, as the
>>molecules involved in chemical and biological warfare wiull be too big
>>to get thru to the wearer. And it'd also stop most radioactivfallout
>>and the like from getting thru. It won't help against actual radiation
>>though.
>
> Since the outfit is optimized for a completely different purpose, I would
> not allow this interpretation by my players.

I was giving that as a "natural" ability for a suit that *didin't*
allow chemicals (ie "odors") to escape.

>>You'll have to make the suit act like a counter current heat exchanger
>>for gases going in and out, as well as allowing out excess heat (which
>>is apt to be a *real* problem). So respiration will take place over the
>>entire surface of the suit.
>
> I'm not sure what you are saying here, respiration occurs through a simple,
> noise suppressed, mask.  Heat exchange is via the air-permeability of the
> fabric.

Again, that was assuming the suit that can chemical and IR mask.

>>So even given "magic" technology, you have several ways the wearer can
>>be detected:
>>
>>1. oxygen consumption (difficult, even at high tech levels)

I just realized an *easy* way to do this. Not suitable for "home" use,
but quite possible for industrial and government security. 

Fill the area with dry nitrogen gas. This has the added bonus of
prolonging the life of things like paper records. Use a slight
overpressure (ie the "air" pressure inside is a bit higher than
outside, so "air" tends to flow *out*). 

First attempt:
1. Character in suit opens door/window/access panel.
2. Character goes thru opening in the face of a very slight breeze.
3. Character closes /door/window/etc behind self.
4. Character starts into area.
5. Character passes out from lack of oxygen.
6. Character dies if loud *thump* from falling doesn't set off alarm.
   Else character is grabbed by security team.

Second attempt, using oxygen bottle and mask:
1. Character in suit opens door/window/access panel.
2. Character goes thru opening in the face of a very slight breeze.
3. Character closes /door/window/etc behind self.
4. Character starts into area.
5. Since O2 must be at slight overpresuure to prevent excess nitrogen
   from seeping into mask, some oxygen is lost to environment. More is
   lost with each exhalation, along with C02 and water vapor. Sensors
   detect anomalous gases and trigger alarm.

Third attempt, using rebreather and "sealed" suit. Might just work, but
it's a royal pain. :-)

>>2. CO2 emmissions (easier)

See above for a way to make detecting them *much* easier. :-)

>>3. thermal signature.
> See above.  I feel (still) that this is a vulnerability not addressed by
> the suit.

Good. You've got some sense!

>>4. EM signature, mostly light. At a bare minimum. you have to let in
>>   light at the eyes so the wearer can see where he is going. Hard,m
>>   but not impossible to detect at higher tech levels.
>>5. mass. The intruder *has* mass. And as such, he's *inherently*
>>   detectable. We *now* have detectors that can detect the mass of your
>>   fist at a couple of meters. Detecting a 100 kilo intruder at 10
>>   meters is quite doable.
>
> In answer to your list.  Yes, all of these methods can detect this item, as
> well as psionics, air pressure/movement, odor, sensitive sound detectors,
> The suit is not *that* capable.  Against the mark 1 eyeball, and mark 1
> ear, it is excellent.  Against a chemical or biological sniffer when the
> scene is being investigated, it does pretty well.

Actually, unless you go with the activated charcoal liner trick, it
won't work against a TL9(?) "mechanical sniffer" that merely catalogs
"trace molecules". And a few TLs later, that won't work. 
 
>>Frankly, if you are trying to spy, rather than break in to steal some
>>object, you'd be much better off with micro-drones.
>
> There are times when there is no substitute for human eyes and ears, and
> some times when there is a need to enter and remove something.

The "drones" are basicly remote controlled cameras and microphones. So
you *have* human eyes and ears.

> Surveillance equipment has its (very important) role, but its not always a
> substitute for an operative on the scene.

True.

> Always remember folks, I plan to let *players* have this thing.  I gotta
> leave a few sensors around that can detect them.

Sounds like there will be plenty. And as I said beforeif they can get
it, so can the other side. Maybe even *better*. 


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 04:46:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 98-02-21 13:03:28 EST, you write:
>
> << 
>  >      Roll for Population Multiplier, Planetoid Belts, and Gas Giants
>  >independently. Record as single digits in the order PBG.
>  
>  I'd prefer to stay with 2D6-2 for Population Multiplier
>  
>   >>
>  Which unfortunately produces results from 0 to 10. 0 x 10^6 is 0, whichis an
> unhappy result. 10 x 10 ^6 is 10^7, which is also an unhappy result.

How about 2d6 rolled in the "11 to 66" manner? That gives 36 evenly
distributed results, which means that you can "assign" 4 results to
each of the digits 1-9, with equal probability. Here's a table, using
the crudest method of assigning the values:

    1 2 3 4 5 6
  +------------
1 | 1 1 1 1 2 2
2 | 2 2 3 3 3 3
3 | 4 4 4 4 5 5
4 | 5 5 6 6 6 6
5 | 7 7 7 7 8 8
6 | 8 8 9 9 9 9

And here's version that eliminates the dependence on which die is
rolled first. 

    1 2 3 4 5 6
  +------------
1 | 1 1 2 3 4 4
2 | 1 1 2 3 5 6
3 | 2 2 6 5 7 7
4 | 3 3 5 6 8 8
5 | 4 5 7 8 9 9
6 | 4 6 7 8 9 9

There you are 1-9 multiplier, even distribution.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 05:05:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

In mail you write:

> Actually, we need a 1 to 9, zeros don't work...So using 2 six sided dice we 
> can use
> this formula
> Die 1:
> 1-2: Add 0
> 3-4: Add 3
> 5-6: Add 6
>
> Die 2:
> 1-2: 1
> 3-4: 2
> 5-6: 3
>
> Pop Mod = 3 x (ceiling(Die1 / 2) - 1) + ceiling(Die2 / 2)

Or as a table:

    1 2 3 4 5 6
  +------------
1 | 1 1 2 2 3 3
2 | 1 1 2 2 3 3
3 | 4 4 5 5 6 6
4 | 4 4 5 5 6 6
5 | 7 7 8 8 9 9
6 | 7 7 8 8 9 9

Looks better than my first table, but I like my second table better, as
it avoids the "1st die, 2nd die" difference. And it turns the
instructions into "roll two 6 sided dice. Look up the numbers on the
sides of the table to find the result".


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 05:11:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Planetary meson guns (was: Surface Damage (was:  Traveller Digest yadayadayada))

In mail you write:

> Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
>> This kind of reminds me of the planetary meson gun problem. The only
>> way to kill it since the damn thing is buried in the planet's crust
>> is to kill all of the surface fire controls and sensors (or invade
>> the planet).
>
> I never understood that.  Surely the most effective tactic is  to
> send in covert special ops teams to  neutralise  planetaty  meson
> guns prior to invading?  (Similar idea to Han Solo taking out the
> planet-based shield generator in Return Of The Jedi.)

Trouble is, that's like trying to send in "special ops" teams to take
out Cheyenne mountain, or to take out our ballistic missile subs or
the ICBM control bunkers. *First* you have to find them, *then* you
have to get to them. 

In the case of Cheyenne mountain, the location is known. In the case of
the contol bunkers, the location is unknown, but fixed. And the subs
are at unknown *mobile* locations. 

Cheyenne mountain and the bunkers are specifically designed to
withstand *multiple* direct hits by nuclear warheads. The subs are
harder to find, but easier to destroy once found.

And security makes sneaking in to *any* of these effectively
impossible. You *might* manage to get a *very* deep cover "mole"
selected as part of the crewing.

Deep meson sites will have similar protection and security. And there
may even be sites analogous to submarines, "swimming" through the molten
rock inside the planet.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:52:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

Marc Miller writes:

>>I use a ten-sided die for this, and reroll on 10. But then, I'm a heretic.
>
>That's the problem. By definition, the Traveller universe recognizes only six
>sided regular solids.

   Unless of course you play TRAVELLER NE...higher levels of geometry become
possible then.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:11:41 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> >I suppose ideally you want to integrate the En Guard rules for
> >Social Level change into Traveller. (Being seen with the 'right'
> >people, contributing to worthy causes, patronising the Arts ...
> >in _addition_ to conspicous spending.) Also, there should be a
> >difference between Social Level and Noble Title, even if the two
> >factors are related (spending like a Duke will not get you a
> >Duchy).
>
> I agree with the second part. I've always held that a high Social
Standing
> didn't automatically mean a noble title. The Regional director of GSbAG
> might be SOC 13, and still be a coomoner, but a very rich and powerful
> commoner. As for the being seen and doing good works, that's part of the
> expenditure of credits. I tend to see SOC as a indication of how people
> view you, so a upper-class person who ends up on skid row isn't going to
> automatically have the advantages of his birth. The only exception uis
for
> actual nobles. I keep track of their true SOC along with their apparent
> level. This allows some fun when the scruffy ship's engineer steps
forward
> and reveals himself as the heir to the Duchy of Glisten.

Once you separate Title from SOC then you have to decide what SOC
actually  represents.  I  use  it  to  represent  the  degree  of
influence a character weilds apart  from  his  rank,  title,  and
wealth.  To impress those of lower SOC than  you,  you  associate
(or be seen to associate) with those people whom  the  lower  SOC
types look up to (usually higher SOC than you).  Then  the  lower
SOC people think you must be even higher SOC than you are ... and
their thinking this makes it so.  (I'm not sure I said that  very
well!)  Doing good deeds also impresses people.  It is true  that
all this can cost money, but you  can  spend  lots  on  money  on
'lifestyle' without raising SOC.  Also, when  there  is  a  large
difference in SOC there can _sometimes_ be a reverse effect as  a
result of resentment of the lower classes to the upper.

So if Title and SOC are different then SOC must work a bit like a
Vargr's Charisma.



Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen
"If eating animals is wrong, why are they made of meat?"
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #215
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 216



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: T4-Combat Questions
Surface Damage
Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)
Planetary Meson Guns
Galactic / Judges Guild / Paranoia Press
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
SSDS Structure Factors
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit : Reply to comments
Re: Glass Rod pictures (more culture)
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: IG Shipping
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Luriani
*Infini-V* News
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
CT Reprint ever a possibility?  (Was Re: Traveller Items...)
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: World generation Modifications

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:21:38 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: T4-Combat Questions

In a message dated 2/23/98 12:11:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DPoole@therston.rc.hollandc.pe.ca writes:

<< And of course there was a third question I had, but who can
 remember!?  I'll save it for later.  >>

I'll ask one...what is the oft-mentioned but never explained Rapid fire bonus,
and how does it work?

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:20:03 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Surface Damage

Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> Things like densitometers and gravity detectors could be buried behind
>> protective armour, since I do not believe their proximity to the surface of
>> a ship is necessary for them to function.
>  
> They would be pretty useless as sensors for things other than
> astrophysics/geology.

Depends. They may be useful for detecting ships at "close" ranges. At
least enough to give other sensors an idea of where to look.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Sir, our gravitic sensor is picking up a target!"
"Of course it is, Ensign. You installed it inside our ship, and succeeded in detecting us."

One of my (US) Navy friends has used the phrase "as useful as a metal detector on board a submarine." - I think that would apply to a densitometer or grav detector that was inside a starship. If you have a contra-grav field running, can you detect any gravity sources? Isn't your field countering all outside grav influences?

Hmmm...or are you not detecting grav influences from a dedicated gravitometer? Are you just analyzing stresses on the contra-grav generators? And just how much gravitic disturbance does a ship with a 1G internal artificial gravity field make, anyway?



Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:26:39 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: meson decay (was System Defense Boats)

>Also, considering the idea of grav focusing.  If you can generate a 
>soliton that encompasses and accompanies the laser photon packet to
>its target all the way, I', not sure it would have to have a very large
>strength to counteract beam divergence.
>After all, light, light everything else, falls at 9.8 meters per second
>squared in a 1g field.  It just doesn't stick around too long.

That's correct - the major advantage of the soliton model of grav focussing
is that it requires very weak field strengths, because it's only "bending"
the beam very slightly. Back-of-the-envelope I got field strengths ~1G,
which is certainly within reach of imperial tech.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:29:52 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Planetary Meson Guns

Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Deep meson sites will have similar protection and security. And there
may even be sites analogous to submarines, "swimming" through the molten
rock inside the planet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

How do you intent to protect the mobile site from the pressure and temperature at those depths? I don't think even TL 12 engineering can withstand conditions inside a planet's mantle. Of course, if you could pull it off then power wouldn't be a problem...

While I can see some devices mounted in large submersibles, I think the average heavy planetary meson site will be deep underground, but still in solid rock. Here's an idea - a high population world that's mostly urbanized. It would probably have underground transit tubes, some designed to carry heavy freight modules. Build a couple of hundred (or thousand) meson gun modules, have them cycling around the transportation system so the baddies won't know where they are.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:34:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Galactic / Judges Guild / Paranoia Press

Eric Holmes <holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov> writes:
>Who has and maintains the software system "Galactic" amongst the TMLers?
>I had used it once before and cannot find it now.

That would be me. Galactic is available at my new homepage:
http://members.aol.com/jimvassila

A new version should be available soonish.

For those who are interested, Jo Grant has produced the data
for a whole bunch of classic sectors, which is available at:
ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/trav/classic.zip

Also, this is a little off-topic, but somebody asked about how
to contact various publishers of Traveller supplements, including
Paranoia Press and Judges Guild. Last I checked, the Paranoia
Press homepage was at http://www.inlink.com/~scoundrl/paranoia.htm
Likewise, Bob Bledsaw of Judges Guild can be reached at
judgesguild@q-com.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:41:52 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

> It makes no sense for a small private Import/Export company on
>>a TL9 world to have advanced TL14 anti-burglary sensors (unless of course
>>they are a Zhodani Secret Safe House), hence any such company office is
>>'wide open' to PCs with a stealth suit of the 'over the top' type.
[snip]
>
>It makes perfect sense for a import/export company on a TL9 world to have TL14
>anti-burglary sensors.  It doesn't even require any handwaving if there's a
>TL14 planet within a jump or two away.
>
>Free traders and commercial trading companies don't exist to trade only
>novelties, natural resources and animal specimens across the Imperium.  They
>exist to trade all kinds of goods, TL14 security systems included.

I wasn't questioning the availability, only the perceived necessity vs.
cost and therefore the actual presence of such devices.

Culturally, Different planets and cities differ in their need for security.
Even Boston vs. a relatively wealthy suburb - like Burlington (MA) - have
vastly different security needs.  My point above is that there will be
plenty of homes and businesses that will not got to the time and expense
(and in some cases hazard and inconvenience - like filling your shop with
nitrogen every night) of buying security equivalent to a bank or military
installation.

That said, it makes perfect sense for an import/export company on a TL 9
world to import TL 14 security equipment...if there is a criminal culture
on their world which regularly breaks in, defeating TL9 to TL13 security
systems routinely.

My Vision of The Future(tm) does not include super-security systems in
every home and business.  Therefore I am not going to offer my players the
technology to enter these places in a guaranteed undetectable manner, only
in a mildly undetectable manner.

Pete




Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:49:21 EST
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: SSDS Structure Factors

I sent this out once before, in the middle of the Great February Flame Fest,
so maybe it just got missed...

Does anyone have a formula or table of the SSDS Structure Factors for hulls
greater than 5000dt?  I am interested in using them w/ the SSDS system for
some off-the-cuff designs for color during my campaign.  If anybody has any
info I'd surely be greatful...

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:58:06 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

actually Peter, you expressed the problem wrong:

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Peter H. Brenton wrote:

> Right.  I will, however, take the position that it is significantly easier
> on the GM to keep the capabilities of any device 'down' to a 'reasonable'
> level to prevent the chronic problem of not being able to think through all
> the implications of a particular device with the same diligence of a
> player.

Actually that last bit should read "...not being able to think through all
the implications of a particular device with the same diligence as _n_
players, where _n_ is a variable composed of the player, the other players
in the group, their friends, and their smart-ass thirteen-year-old
munchkin brothers."

Defines the problems facing the average GM much more accurately!

>'Remote Recon Drones'

Ooooohhhh naaarrrrrrffff! ;->

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:01:09 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:

> Ah, hell. Ash patched one together out of spare parts in just a few hours
> in Alien :-).

Yeah, but he 'shopped smart, shop S-mart'...

oops Wrong Ash, wrong movie ;->


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:02:29 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit : Reply to comments

>In mail you write:
>
>> The problem with equipment in Traveller is that game balance must be
>> retained.  If, in actual use, I gave the people I play with the
>> capabilities some responders have mentioned the Galaxy wouldn't be safe
>> anymore and all my adventures would be walkovers.
>
>Actually, most "hypertech" type stuff tends to be self correcting. The
>players learn fairly quickly that if *they* can get it, not only can
>their enemies get it, but the more "well funded" of them can get
>*better*. <evil grin>

I prefer to keep the hypertech down rather than use your preferred option.
'Nuff said.

>> Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com> said;
>>>Most security systems IMTU use ultrasonic motion detectors,...[snip]
>>
>> Wave cancellation is a proposed sonar defeating technology, but in that
>> mode would require enormous amounts of equipment and energy.
[snip]
>> More likely is a sound absorbing material, similar to the radar absorbing
>> material on stealth aircraft, which simply tends not to reflect the sound
>> waves.
>
>Trouble is that when that becomes practical, the *home* level detectors
>will upgrade to "imaging" detectors.

Fine, that'll be a nasty suprise.  As I state in another thread, however,
this level of technology, while available, will not necessarily be present
in every home/office due to price/cultural considerations.

[snip IR discussion]
>> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said;
>Odor/chemical sensors will be down to "home use" well before TL15.
>Probably before TL12. But an activated characoal liner (disposable)
>masy be able to handle most of that.

Perhaps there will be home odor detectors by TL12, perhaps not.  Perhaps
they will be present in a given situation, perhaps not.  In either case I
did not prepare the design to counter this particular technology.

>>>On the plus side, this will make it an excellent CBN garment, as the
>>>molecules involved in chemical and biological warfare wiull be too big
>>>to get thru to the wearer. And it'd also stop most radioactivfallout
>>>and the like from getting thru. It won't help against actual radiation
>>>though.
>>
>> Since the outfit is optimized for a completely different purpose, I would
>> not allow this interpretation by my players.
>
>I was giving that as a "natural" ability for a suit that *didin't*
>allow chemicals (ie "odors") to escape.

Permeability to the moisture of sweat and breath in one direction seems to
me to imply permeability in the other direction too.  Since the equipment
is optimized nad designed to prevent particulate and chemical matter from
getting out, all the filters are "pointed" the wrong way.  Perhaps another
item could be designed with this feature, but I do not think this item
would be.  Its just a matter of designed purpose and the complication of
protecting against CBN materials.

[snip]
>>>So even given "magic" technology, you have several ways the wearer can
>>>be detected:
>>>
>>>1. oxygen consumption (difficult, even at high tech levels)
>
>I just realized an *easy* way to do this. Not suitable for "home" use,
>but quite possible for industrial and government security.
[snip Nitrogen Filled Room trap]

Well, they would only get one chance.  I wouldn't want *my* office filled
with nitrogen all night.  But it is an interesting idea.

>>>3. thermal signature.
>> See above.  I feel (still) that this is a vulnerability not addressed by
>> the suit.
>
>Good. You've got some sense!

No need to be condescending here.

[snip]
>Actually, unless you go with the activated charcoal liner trick, it
>won't work against a TL9(?) "mechanical sniffer" that merely catalogs
>"trace molecules". And a few TLs later, that won't work.

Use whatever handwave you wish, I'm sure there are many ways to approach
the problem at TL8, never mind TL14.  Also, detecting molecules of odor is
not the same as being able to identify someone, which was my point.

>>>Frankly, if you are trying to spy, rather than break in to steal some
>>>object, you'd be much better off with micro-drones.
>>
>> There are times when there is no substitute for human eyes and ears, and
>> some times when there is a need to enter and remove something.
>
>The "drones" are basicly remote controlled cameras and microphones. So
>you *have* human eyes and ears.

Come now, you know what I mean.  As you say below.

Cameras and drones can't (usually) open drawers and cabinets, remove or
insert storage crystals, hotwire locked door entry systems, or be player
characters (all these things should say "usually").


>> Surveillance equipment has its (very important) role, but its not always a
>> substitute for an operative on the scene.
>
>True.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
 Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- -Hamlet, Act 1 Scene 5

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:52:58 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Glass Rod pictures (more culture)

>All these postings about various cultural oddments made me decide to dig
>out an old Library Data entry I wrote years ago about a different art form:
>
>GLASS ROD PICTURES:  Art  form originating among the Vilani of the
>Darmine  region  around  -4000.  Later spread to most parts of the
>First Empire.  Enjoyed  a revival among the Solomani of the Easter
>Concord from -800 to -400.
>    Glas rod pictures are made by stacking very thin glass rods of
>varying  colours to create patterns.  The rods are tightly clamped
>in  a frame to prevent shifting and displayed in front of a clear,
>white light.
>
>                      __________________
>                 _ _ _|_ ________    | |
>                0 0 0 0 0________)   | |
>                 0 0 0 0________)    | |
>Glass rods ---> 0 0 0 0 0________)   | |   <--- Light placed
>                 0 0 0 0________)    | |        behind plate
>                0 0 0 0 0________)   | |
>                      |______________|_|
>                              ^
>                              |
>                    Matt white glass plate
>

My God, first the Syleans co-opt Barbie, and now the Vilani want
credit for inventing the Lite Brite! What's next, the Zhos claiming the
rights to Mr. Potato Head? The Hivers marketing their own version
of Twister?!

I can see that when the Solomani lawyers get word of this, war won't
be far behind!

**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:12:48 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

Wrt changing social level by changing spending:

Not a bad idea, with a couple of changes:

1) Explicitly note that this will not get you a title!  True, titles have
been purchased, but this should be a matter of role-playing.

2) Explicitly note that low spending doesn't lose your title. You may not
get the respect it should command, but you still hold the title.

3) Adjust the spending requirements for characters in active service, or
on a starship, to reflect the subsidy that meals/quarters etc provides.
(Although I suppose that a really high-status character might be expected
to maintain a permanent residence somewhere.)

4) Limit the speed of SS gain from conspicuous consumption, and put a
limit on total shift. This would be culture-dependent. Eg. in Victorian
England it would take several generations for the 'wealth' to become
respectable; it was faster in America. 

Note that this speed limit would be reduced for characters recovering
their fortunes (they already have the connections/manners/whatnot).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:15:13 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: IG Shipping

Bryan writes:
>
>	Well IG finally shipped me the two products they owed as credit for JTAS
>and
>
>Citizens.

Well, I'm still waiting...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:10:25 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
in reply to  
> Jim Cooper wrote:
> > Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> > > My rule is that it takes several months of spending to raise the social
> > > level for a PC. This accounts for learning the rope sof your new
> station,
> > > buying the right toys, etc. A group of belters who suddenly can afford
> to
> > > spend Cr 3750 a month won't be partying with the Duke any time soon.
> >
> > I would agree with that as well. Word would get around, and the PC may
> > get invited to higher class party's, but his social will not rise unless
> > he wins approval. Likewise the business person may be able to sustain
> > his perceived station for some time after going down, but only as long
> > as he can keep up the front. Yes or no ??
> 
> I suppose ideally you want to integrate the  En Guard  rules  for
> Social Level change into Traveller.  (Being seen with the 'right'
> people, contributing to worthy causes, patronising the  Arts  ...
> in _addition_ to conspicous spending.)  Also, there should  be  a
> difference between Social Level and Noble Title, even if the  two
> factors are related (spending like a Duke  will  not  get  you  a
> Duchy).
> 
Nope. I'm not trying to integrate any rules changes to anything. I'm
only commenting on what others have written, and trying to imagine their
considered reasoning. On his points, I can both see where he is coming
from and I agree that that is probably what would happen or have to
happen before any change would come about. Do you feel that the change,
as he has decribed it, would come about faster in another way? If so, in
what way? 
Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:36:28 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> 
> At 04:57 PM 2/24/98 +0000, you wrote:
> 
> >I suppose ideally you want to integrate the  En Guard  rules  for
> >Social Level change into Traveller.  (Being seen with the 'right'
> >people, contributing to worthy causes, patronising the  Arts  ...
> >in _addition_ to conspicous spending.)  Also, there should  be  a
> >difference between Social Level and Noble Title, even if the  two
> >factors are related (spending like a Duke  will  not  get  you  a
> >Duchy).
> 
> I agree with the second part.  I've always held that a high Social Standing
> didn't automatically mean a noble title.  The Regional director of GSbAG
> might be SOC 13, and still be a coomoner, but a very rich and powerful
> commoner.  As for the being seen and doing good works, that's part of the
> expenditure of credits.  I tend to see SOC as a indication of how people
> view you, so a upper-class person who ends up on skid row isn't going to
> automatically have the advantages of his birth.  The only exception uis for
> actual nobles.  I keep track of their true SOC along with their apparent
> level.  This allows some fun when the scruffy ship's engineer steps forward
> and reveals himself as the heir to the Duchy of Glisten.
> 

I like to treat SOC more like a charisma characteristic, tempered by
using the TNE NPC Motivation Tables and JG's Traveller Logbook Personal
and Family Background generation. This also creates some very
interesting character creations. But, I like your approach to keeping
both true and apparent levels. Makes sense, especially for the scenario
I presented before.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:49:09 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Luriani

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> Okay, over the last few days I've worked out a rough sketch of the Luriani
> culture and physiology, as well as do some minor alterations to the history

A very interesting and well done development. I do think you may have
been too hard on them though, considering the following selected text
areas.

[snip]
> The semi-aquatic nature of the Luriani enabled them to utilise the shallow
> seas around their island homes for hunting and gathering

[snip]
>> Thus by -30,000 the Luriani had established a world
> spanning trading civilisation complete with organised warfare, despite the
> fact that they were still a TL0 hunter gatherer culture without any
> domesticated animals or form of agriculture.

I would think that such an inventive and resourceful culture would have
developed some method of domesticating forms of undersea animals and
agricultural development, even if it was only in the organization of say
an artistically beautiful coral reef display inviting tourism from other
islands (much like the area on the northern coast of Australia). This
might also have led to the piracy and warfare that developed, despite
what seems should be a fun loving, creative and carefree society. I
can't imagine what they had to fight about.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:26:25 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: *Infini-V* News

BITS is now provided an alternative download site for Rob Prior's Infini-V
software.

The URL is http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/

The site contains the latest copy of the demo from Rob (fully functional
except no save, export or printing) of the software which implements the
Vehicle Design Sequence from CSC as a Macintosh program. Also included are
details of how to get the full version.

If you have a Mac and want to see what the software is like, try out the
demo! A PC version is in preparation at the moment...

Dom

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:18:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Walter G. Smith wrote:

> Leonard Erikson wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Deep meson sites will have similar protection and security. And there
> may even be sites analogous to submarines, "swimming" through the molten
> rock inside the planet.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> How do you intent to protect the mobile site from the pressure and
> temperature at those depths? I don't think even TL 12 engineering can
> withstand conditions inside a planet's mantle. Of course, if you could
> pull it off then power wouldn't be a problem... 

I like the idea of large subs with meson spinal mounts crawling around
under a few kilometers of water, receiving their targeting data with a
meson communicator (doesn't work for low tech or low water worlds,
though).  The sub can easily reorient itself in three dimensions, and
exploit gravitic propulsion.

All the technology would be tried and true by TL 15.  Lower TLs could
solve the communication problem by some other means, perhaps a commo
network on the ocean bottom.  Why go crazy spending TCr to put stuff in
the mantle of the planet?

> While I can see some devices mounted in large submersibles, I think the
> average heavy planetary meson site will be deep underground, but still
> in solid rock. Here's an idea - a high population world that's mostly
> urbanized. It would probably have underground transit tubes, some
> designed to carry heavy freight modules. Build a couple of hundred (or
> thousand) meson gun modules, have them cycling around the transportation
> system so the baddies won't know where they are. 

How would they aim the meson guns?  The tubes would have to be really
short for it to work.


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:20:22 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: CT Reprint ever a possibility?  (Was Re: Traveller Items...)

Look at the bids on this auction (which I'm not quoting to save the digesters some
bandwidth).  Between $5-$15 *per book.*  What did these beauties cost initially?  (I
can't recall exactly but we did have high inflation then).  Anyway, there seems to be
a clear demand for these books.

I've heard that someone is planning to put a lot of the CT stuff on CD-Rom.  While
any access to the material would be desirable from my CT-barren library, hardcopy is
preferable.

My hope:  that Marc or someone with the legal authority to do so, would make this
holy, ancient, and canonical works available in hardcopy form.  For me, I don't need
them to be reprinted on quality paper with the slick covers, etc.  Just need / want /
crave the information.  I'll take photocopies.  Of course, I'd pay more for better
quality, but given the capabilities of the ubiquitous photocopy place, they could
probably even staple bind such works very cheaply.

Think about it, if an original copy of High Guard can get a $15 bid, how much could
be made on 20 cheaply made copies?  $3?  Thats $60.  Take it a step farther and make
it worth the effort.  Bundle 'em.  That way, you get a cheaper price on the copies
from the photoplace and makes shipping costs better to.  So make it Books 0-5 in for
$20 + $4 shipping.  I'd do it in a heartbeat.   Question is, would enough others be
interested to make it worth Marc or whoevers time?

Of course, there is another alternative:  Deluxe Collector's CT Compendium   - The
Original Books 0-5 and maybe some supplements reformatted into one nice hardcover
book (kind of on the order of the current Mileu 0 hardcover) with a sleek black
slipcase with the red line and "Traveller" on it?  Yummy.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:27:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

Hi,

IMHO, this is the best solution I've seen so far.


Clark (different guy)


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Clark, William wrote:

> Why not use 1d3 and 1d3 as follows
> 
> 	1	2	3
> 1	1	2	3
> 2	4	5	6
> 3	7	8	9
> 
> Linear distribution of 9 numbers.
> 
> Bill Clark
> clark@bessemer.com
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:34:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

Hi Leonard,

I like this one too (especially the one without order to the dice), but
the 1D3 algorithm takes less printed space.  We could also express it as a
formula: 

Population Multiplier = 1D3 + [ 3 x (1D3 - 1) ]

Where "1D3" is simply a shorthand for "floor(1D6/2)".  I think that's
basically the same as your first table, but I really like that second one.


Thanks,
Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > In a message dated 98-02-21 13:03:28 EST, you write:
> >
> > << 
> >  >      Roll for Population Multiplier, Planetoid Belts, and Gas Giants
> >  >independently. Record as single digits in the order PBG.
> >  
> >  I'd prefer to stay with 2D6-2 for Population Multiplier
> >  
> >   >>
> >  Which unfortunately produces results from 0 to 10. 0 x 10^6 is 0, whichis an
> > unhappy result. 10 x 10 ^6 is 10^7, which is also an unhappy result.
> 
> How about 2d6 rolled in the "11 to 66" manner? That gives 36 evenly
> distributed results, which means that you can "assign" 4 results to
> each of the digits 1-9, with equal probability. Here's a table, using
> the crudest method of assigning the values:
> 
>     1 2 3 4 5 6
>   +------------
> 1 | 1 1 1 1 2 2
> 2 | 2 2 3 3 3 3
> 3 | 4 4 4 4 5 5
> 4 | 5 5 6 6 6 6
> 5 | 7 7 7 7 8 8
> 6 | 8 8 9 9 9 9
> 
> And here's version that eliminates the dependence on which die is
> rolled first. 
> 
>     1 2 3 4 5 6
>   +------------
> 1 | 1 1 2 3 4 4
> 2 | 1 1 2 3 5 6
> 3 | 2 2 6 5 7 7
> 4 | 3 3 5 6 8 8
> 5 | 4 5 7 8 9 9
> 6 | 4 6 7 8 9 9
> 
> There you are 1-9 multiplier, even distribution.
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #216
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, February 24 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 217



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: CT Reprint ever a possibility?
re: Surface Damage
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Stealth Suits
Planetary Meson Guns
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: World generation Modifications
New 3d starmapping program
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: Glass Rod pictures (more culture)
Paranoia Press homepage down
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: Zhodani Secret Gelding Grip(tm)
Ship Mounted Densitometers
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Escort Tonnage
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names
Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Beginnings
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
RE:Starport Economics
the fate of Antares
unlimited cargo?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:56:03 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

>I like the idea of large subs with meson spinal mounts crawling around
>under a few kilometers of water, receiving their targeting data with a
>meson communicator
My party took a far trader and, more or less, replaced its cargo bay with a
50t meson bay and a power supply for it. I wouldn't let them fire it while
in flight (that would be just a _little_ violation of the hardpoint rule!),
but I did allow them to "emplace" it on a planetary surface, or, more
often, underwater.
Basically emplacing meant securing its position and nailing it to the crust
or whatever is needed to make it a fixed instalation rather than a ship.

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:01:03 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: CT Reprint ever a possibility?

>CT Reprint ever a possibility?
I applied to Marc Miller for a lisence to electronically publish CT books
1, 2, and 3 electronically in January. I've got the whole apparatus set up
and ready to go. If it was successful I would pursue publishing the rest of
the CT base books electronically, then, maybe, in paper. Each would have to
be sufficiently successful to capitalise the next.
Unfortunately Marc has declined to respond, dispite the occasional
reminder. I still live in hope. You might try asking him yourself why he
hasn't pursued this opportunity or even replied, at least as a negative to
someone who has put forward a serious proposal to do so.

Cheers,

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:04:18 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Surface Damage

>>> Things like densitometers and gravity detectors could be buried behind
>>> protective armour, since I do not believe their proximity to the surface of
>>> a ship is necessary for them to function.
>> They would be pretty useless as sensors for things other than
>> astrophysics/geology.
>Depends. They may be useful for detecting ships at "close" ranges. At
>least enough to give other sensors an idea of where to look.

There are rules for grav sensors (based on the assumption that they can
pick up gravitic "wakes" from thruster plates) and neutrino sensors 
in the FFS2 errata (on various web pages near you.) They're fairly
short ranged and not directional enough for fire control. It's assumed that
they're at least partially shielded from the ship's own gravity...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:17:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu> writes:

> >I was giving that as a "natural" ability for a suit that *didin't*
> >allow chemicals (ie "odors") to escape.
> 
> Permeability to the moisture of sweat and breath in one direction seems to
> me to imply permeability in the other direction too.

Not necessarily.  Can you say "Osmotic Membrane"?

        - Mark C.
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       "Where am I... and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:18:14 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Stealth Suits

Charcoal liners. Chem filters. Acoustic dampeners. Chameleon coatings.

About as much fun to role-play as running a typewriter.

Our group liked to defeat security systems the old-fashioned way. The best sensor is, eventually, controlled by a Mk I human with a Mk I brain. Whether we're talking the security guard at the monitors, the tech whiz who built the system, or the Imperial Governor with authority over the installation, at some level there is a person involved.

And if you're good enough, and can identify him, this person can be overcome. Bribed, conned, cajoled, replaced, whatever. The highest tech security system in the world is useless if the owner hands you the keys.


Walt Smith
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Try not to get yourself killed, Mr. Potts. It would inconvenience me." - Charlton Heston as _Major Dundee_

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:30:24 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Planetary Meson Guns

Clark Crawford wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> in solid rock. Here's an idea - a high population world that's mostly
> urbanized. It would probably have underground transit tubes, some
> designed to carry heavy freight modules. Build a couple of hundred (or
> thousand) meson gun modules, have them cycling around the transportation
> system so the baddies won't know where they are. 

How would they aim the meson guns?  The tubes would have to be really
short for it to work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Have sidings designed for the purpose, several dozen (or more) per weapon. The siding would have a communications repeater linked to planetary sensor arrays, and would be wide enough and tall enough for the articulated meson mount on the transport module to swing freely. The meson tube could be as long as the largest freight module, and could even (with telescoping segments) be longer - it would just take extra time to deploy after moving to a new site.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:51:00 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

Rob Prior wrote:
> 
> Wrt changing social level by changing spending:
> 
> Not a bad idea, with a couple of changes:

[snip practicle ideas]

A high roller might also help bolster the ship's canteen profits on a
long voyage too, and would certainly gain the 'rank' and 'title' from
his shipboard buddies.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:12:41 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

Walter G. Smith wrote:
> 
> Leonard Erikson wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Deep meson sites will have similar protection and security. And there
> may even be sites analogous to submarines, "swimming" through the molten
> rock inside the planet.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> How do you intent to protect the mobile site from the pressure and temperature at those depths?

AHA! Have you made contact with the Darriens?? They have the technology.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:58:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

Oops -- somebody else already wrote this.  Didn't mean to plagiarize.

Clark

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, I wrote:

> Population Multiplier = 1D3 + [ 3 x (1D3 - 1) ]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:00:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: New 3d starmapping program

In penance for dragging my feet w/ respect to Galactic, here's a
3d starmapping program that some of you might like to check out:

        PROGRAM NAME: "STARMAP" [v1.0] {February 1998}
        AUTHOR: Jim Vassilakos  (jimv@empirenet.com)
        FUNCTION: 3d Starmapper
        OPERATING SYSTEM: IBM (MS-DOS)
        SIZE: 1,815,334 bytes zipped
        COMMENTS: Create and explore three-dimensional starmaps
              for your science-fiction RPG campaign, then share
              your work with the rest of us on the Net. Requires
              VGA graphics or better. May attach campaign notes
              to the maps via an easy-to-learn menuing system.
              Sample map included along with SF-RPG discussion
              archives. You must use "-d" option when unzipping:
              >>>>>>>>    pkunzip -d star10.zip    <<<<<<<<

Point your webbrowser to http://members.aol.com/jimvassila and
go to the programs section. If you have trouble getting it, let
me know and I'll try to email you a copy (your mailbox can take
in 1.8 megs, right? :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:01:06 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

Bruce Johnson wrote:

>> Ah, hell. Ash patched one together out of spare parts in just a few hours
>> in Alien :-).
>
>Yeah, but he 'shopped smart, shop S-mart'...
>
>oops Wrong Ash, wrong movie ;->

   Cut the department store jokes or by Sam Walton I'm going to make a
Target of you and you'll end up with a Lazarus complex.  I'm Sears, there's
no telling where these J.C Penney-anny puns are going to end up.  People are
probably already heading for the Hills.  So let's cut the Bullocks or we
Macys the end of this list.

Regards,

Harold

P.S. Game balance is a simple matter of making sure the bad guys have
weapons and equipment equal to the players, if not a little better
(afterall, there's more of them than there is of you around the table).
Your players want suits that allow them to travel undetected?  Fine,
introduce them to their next opponent: Predator.  They want to be Superman?
Introduce them to their new opponent: Lex Luther (and his brand new
Kryponite laser).  In all cases however make sure that you don't break the
system.  Traveller in all its forms is a very flexible game, but there are
always limits (the stats for a 100 megaton hydrogen bomb should not be a
regular concern of the PCs, even if it's neat to know information).

- --h

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:12:45 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Glass Rod pictures (more culture)

Paul Owensby wrote:

>My God, first the Syleans co-opt Barbie, and now the Vilani want
>credit for inventing the Lite Brite! What's next, the Zhos claiming the
>rights to Mr. Potato Head? The Hivers marketing their own version
>of Twister?!

Mr. Potato Head is _obviously_ Zhodani in inspiration -- intended to be
anti-Imperial propaganda for their own kids, but it caught on among the
clueless Impies.

Rubik's Cube is just as obviously a Droyne "scrying" focus, like the
crystal balls of Terra.

Good Vibrations is clearly a front business for techno/new-age Darrian
pseudo-elves.

Barney is clearly a Hiver manipulation attempt to "sell" the Ithlkur to the
Solomani.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:13:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Paranoia Press homepage down

Well, Jo just informed me that the Paranoia Press homepage
is down. For those looking to get into contact with Chuck
Kallenbach, here's some info that he's left St. Louis (which
would explain why his homepage went kaput). See
http://hot.virtual-pc.com/mufty/swccg/interviews/tomlischke.html
Looks like he's dived into the StarWars RPG. Anyway, good luck...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:18:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Walter G. Smith wrote:

> Clark Crawford wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > in solid rock. Here's an idea - a high population world that's mostly
> > urbanized. It would probably have underground transit tubes, some
> > designed to carry heavy freight modules. Build a couple of hundred (or
> > thousand) meson gun modules, have them cycling around the transportation
> > system so the baddies won't know where they are. 
> 
> How would they aim the meson guns?  The tubes would have to be really
> short for it to work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> Have sidings designed for the purpose, several dozen (or more) per
> weapon. The siding would have a communications repeater linked to
> planetary sensor arrays, and would be wide enough and tall enough for
> the articulated meson mount on the transport module to swing freely. The
> meson tube could be as long as the largest freight module, and could
> even (with telescoping segments) be longer - it would just take extra
> time to deploy after moving to a new site. 

Pretty neat idea, but what if the enemy targets all the transit lines with
their meson guns?  Disable the transit lines, and the PDMGs can't move.  I
think this idea works better with CT/MT than with TNE/T4, because in the
old tech arch you can build a reasonable MG that fits in a boxcar.  In the
new tech arch, you need the thing to be 100 meters long to hurt anything
beyond low orbit.  Fortunately, I like the old "tech arch".

For high tech, high population worlds without a lot of water for hiding
submarines, I think this idea has some merit, but they will probably also
want some spinal mount sized weapons to hit the big stuff with.


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:32:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:

> >I like the idea of large subs with meson spinal mounts crawling around
> >under a few kilometers of water, receiving their targeting data with a
> >meson communicator
> My party took a far trader and, more or less, replaced its cargo bay with a
> 50t meson bay and a power supply for it. I wouldn't let them fire it while
> in flight (that would be just a _little_ violation of the hardpoint rule!),
> but I did allow them to "emplace" it on a planetary surface, or, more
> often, underwater.
> Basically emplacing meant securing its position and nailing it to the crust
> or whatever is needed to make it a fixed instalation rather than a ship.

Ouch.  Throw away that hardpoint rule, and CT rules can produce some
really *nasty* ships!  Imagine a 400 ton ship with a 50 ton bay!  Ouch!


Clark

- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:40:46 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Zhodani Secret Gelding Grip(tm)

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>>>Reminds me of the quite common scene where a "bad guy" goes into a room
>>>where a captive is being interrogated, carrying a teaspoon. Horrible
>>>screams are heard, and he emerges with the info.
>>
>> Strange... there was a SolSec hatchetman NPC in the last Traveller campaign
>> I was in who, in his menacingly swishy way, would do _exactly the same
>> thing_ with a lace antimaccassar his grandmother had made.
>
>So tell me. How do you pop an eyball out of it's socket with a "lace
>antimaccassar" anyway? For that matter what *is* a "antimaccassar"?

Eyeballs?  Who said anything about eyeballs?  Eyeballs!  That'd be sheer
luck.  Son, you'd be BEGGING to have your eyeballs dug out of their sockets
with a grapefruit spoon if you knew what GAWDAWFUL THINGS this guy knew how
to do with a lace doily thingy.

(An antimaccasar is the cloth drape put over the headrest part of a
high-backed chair to keep one's hair oil ("maccassar") from ruining the
upholstery.)

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:35:51 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Ship Mounted Densitometers

Hello List,
  Just to point out something in surface features...

  Ship calibrated densitometers, according to GRAND SURVEY, indicate that
the readings of the ship are "ignored" as it sweeps for information about
other "masses".
  Therefore, based upon the "premise" of the device, it would be a bit
more useful than a metal detector on a submarine. <grin>

    Hal

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:45:11 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

> > >I like the idea of large subs with meson spinal mounts crawling around
> > >under a few kilometers of water, receiving their targeting data with a
> > >meson communicator

The best part about this is: Since a sub doesn't use a jump drive, it doesn't
need refined fuel.  Thus you could just pump the sea water right into your fusion
plant.  And since the water is ever present, you wouldn't need fuel storage space
aboard the sub either.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:18:00 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Escort Tonnage

Yo Folks,
     I remember somewhere that there was a reccomended #of tons of escort,
per #of tons of merchant shipping. Does anyone recall this?
     My party has a Close Escort and we want to try to pick up some private
escort duty. I want to work out how much to charge by dividing our monthly
costs by the theoretical #tons we can support to get a raw figure per ton
that we can advertise. Ie. we'll escort ships for CrXXX per ton of your
ship.
     Has anyone done these sort of calculations? Ever run an escort service
campaign? :-)
          Jo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:47:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Joe Pettit wrote:

> > > >I like the idea of large subs with meson spinal mounts crawling around
> > > >under a few kilometers of water, receiving their targeting data with a
> > > >meson communicator
> 
> The best part about this is: Since a sub doesn't use a jump drive, it
> doesn't need refined fuel.  Thus you could just pump the sea water right
> into your fusion plant.  And since the water is ever present, you
> wouldn't need fuel storage space aboard the sub either. 

Cool!  You'd have to pump the water into a fuel purification plant, but
that's not a big deal.

Perhaps I will fudge-design just a beast.  A factor-T meson gun sounds
nice, throw in some bays for good measure.  :)


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:52:52 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names

I agree.  However you probably need to modify the component costs
downward to make this happen.  Remember that a Correlian Corvette
(150m in length)costs only 3.5Mcr.  Any ship this size in Traveller
would easily cost 100Mcr, heck it's hard to design a 200dt ship for 
20Mcr.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@edgenet.net>

>This supports my argument that Traveller ships need to be BIGGGERR.
>
>-Dan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:01:41 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names

- -----Original Message-----
From: deadeye@ebicom.net <deadeye@ebicom.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names


>> By this I mean that you must select the compoenent solids from
>> which the ship is constrcted and carefully meantally piece them
>> together, calculating the resulting surface areas and volumes.
>> 
>
>Don't be mean:)

Yeah, at least let people use a calculator, pencil, and paper ;)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:04:03 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

Walt Smith writes:
>Here's an idea - a high population world that's mostly urbanized. It
>would probably have underground transit tubes, some designed to carry
>heavy freight modules. Build a couple of hundred (or thousand) meson
>gunmodules, have them cycling around the transportation system so the
>baddies won't know where they are.

Hereby turning the entire transportation infrastructure into a legitimate
military target. Suppose it would work if you're expecting total war...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:33:17 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

Clark Crawford wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Joe Pettit wrote:
>
> > > > >I like the idea of large subs with meson spinal mounts crawling around
> > > > >under a few kilometers of water, receiving their targeting data with a
> > > > >meson communicator
> >
> > The best part about this is: Since a sub doesn't use a jump drive, it
> > doesn't need refined fuel.  Thus you could just pump the sea water right
> > into your fusion plant.  And since the water is ever present, you
> > wouldn't need fuel storage space aboard the sub either.
>
> Cool!  You'd have to pump the water into a fuel purification plant, but
> that's not a big deal.
>
> Perhaps I will fudge-design just a beast.  A factor-T meson gun sounds
> nice, throw in some bays for good measure.  :)

You don't even need the purification plant.  As best as I can tell, the only
thing refined fuel is needed for is Jump fuel.  That seems to be the only place
where using unrefined fuel causes a problem.  Its still probably adviable to use
the purification plant, but by the book, I don't think its necessary.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:39:25 -0000
From: "Mark Archer" <M.Archer@btinternet.com>
Subject: Beginnings

Hi,
    Just one small addition to your wonderful program.  Psykers!!!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:10:19 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

Joe Pettit wrote:

> Clark Crawford wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Joe Pettit wrote:
> >
> > > > > >I like the idea of large subs with meson spinal mounts crawling around
> > > > > >under a few kilometers of water, receiving their targeting data with a
> > > > > >meson communicator
> > >
> > > The best part about this is: Since a sub doesn't use a jump drive, it
> > > doesn't need refined fuel.  Thus you could just pump the sea water right
> > > into your fusion plant.  And since the water is ever present, you
> > > wouldn't need fuel storage space aboard the sub either.
> >
> > Cool!  You'd have to pump the water into a fuel purification plant, but
> > that's not a big deal.
> >
> > Perhaps I will fudge-design just a beast.  A factor-T meson gun sounds
> > nice, throw in some bays for good measure.  :)
>
> You don't even need the purification plant.  As best as I can tell, the only
> thing refined fuel is needed for is Jump fuel.  That seems to be the only place
> where using unrefined fuel causes a problem.  Its still probably adviable to use
> the purification plant, but by the book, I don't think its necessary.

  I just wanted to add refitting existing ICBM launchers in existing subs.  I
imagine those tubes are pretty long and dropping a whole bank of Mesons on an
invading ship would be pretty ugly.  Rather than upgrading the Sub's power plant,
they could use Explosive Power Generators.  Insert cartridge, detonate, fire, eject
spent cartridge.  It might be cheaper, especially if you can design your meson gun
to the same dimensions of a Polaris missile.  You'll still need external sensors and
a meson communicator for targeting.

Btw, what range is appropriate for planetary defense?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:33:28 -0500
From: "Jim L" <bigjim@warwick.net>
Subject: RE:Starport Economics

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD4174.3A799420
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


>The other way to go is to fix a kilo-per-person limit with starports - I
>dunno, maybe 10 kilos per person on planet per week for an E port, and
>going up by a factor of five per grade increase.

>Ian Whitchurch
I ran the math thru my number cruncher...this means a starport E on a world
of Pop 1 billion generates enough cargo per week to fill 446 of the LARGE
armed freighters in the Starships guide, or over 3500 Subsidized
Freighters(same book) my math as follows
cargo capacity Large Armed Frieghter:1600 std I figure an std of cargo is
about 14 tonnes of mass( I believe that the official answer is about 11 on
average, but I calculated it high)
1billion X 10 kilos = 10billion kilos = 10 million tonnes=714286 (rounded)
std at 14 tonnes per STD
714286/1600=446
Calculating the mass of 1 std as 11 changes the number of ships to around
568.
I am not expressing an opinion with these numbers, just informing you of
them. For a planet of 1 million people, the transport would be handled by 4
subsidized freighters (at 1std=14 metric tons)


- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD4174.3A799420
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial"><br>&gt;The other way to go is to fix a =
kilo-per-person limit with starports - I<br>&gt;dunno, maybe 10 kilos =
per person on planet per week for an E port, and<br>&gt;going up by a =
factor of five per grade increase.<br><br>&gt;Ian Whitchurch<br>I ran =
the math thru my number cruncher...this means a starport E on a world of =
Pop 1 billion generates enough cargo per week to fill 446 of the LARGE =
armed freighters in the Starships guide, or over 3500 Subsidized =
Freighters(same book) my math as follows<br>cargo capacity Large Armed =
Frieghter:1600 std I figure an std of cargo is about 14 tonnes of mass( =
I believe that the official answer is about 11 on average, but I =
calculated it high)<br>1billion X 10 kilos =3D 10billion kilos =3D 10 =
million tonnes=3D714286 (rounded) std at 14 tonnes per =
STD<br>714286/1600=3D446<br>Calculating the mass of 1 std as 11 changes =
the number of ships to around 568.<br>I am not expressing an opinion =
with these numbers, just informing you of them. For a planet of 1 =
million people, the transport would be handled by 4 subsidized =
freighters (at 1std=3D14 metric tons)<br><br><br></p>
</font></body></html>
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD4174.3A799420--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:26:11 EST
From: Dedly@aol.com
Subject: the fate of Antares

According to Challenge 43 (as posted on the "alternative" IG website), there's
a TNS entry from 1120 that states that astronomers believe that Antares has a
55% chance of going nova within the next 250 years. Has there been any follow
up info to this? I remember reading on the TML that the Julian Protectorate
did not survive the war but I don't recall the exact fate. Did Antares already
go nova? Did Lucan's forces wipe them out? Or did they succumb to Virus along
with most everyone else? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
\_/
DED

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:23:11 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: unlimited cargo?

A while back Marc put out new passenger and freight charts. I responded
with a question about how cargo (as opposed to freight) was covered in
those charts. Here is Marc's response.

> In a message dated 98-02-10 11:13:19 EST, you write:
>> I've adopted a house rule that says that the Major column is used for
both
>> cargo and major freight. What are your thoughts?
>
>Thanks for your analysis. I have re-labelled the chart to show that the
table
> produced freight (goods carried for a fee). An unlimited quantity of
Cargo is
> available... which makes sense... its the primary product of the
world.
>
> I notice that the Cargo selling table is empty... I have yet to fill
it in.
>
> Marc

Call me slow, but I realized today that the concept of unlimited cargo
makes little sense to me. In CT, the amount of cargo available was
determined by rolling dice. Different dice were rolled depending upon
the nature of the cargo. One roll per week was allowed on the cargo
determination chart. In MT, the procedure was similar.

In both systems, there was a definite limit to how much cargo a crew
would "find" in a week. This forced them to make decisions about what to
buy. The decisions were based on cargo capacity, expected profit, and
other factors.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting Marc's comments. To me, cargo isn't the
primary product of a world, it's whatever the group manages to make a
deal on. The cargo may not even have been manufactured on the local
world; the group may have bought it off of an incoming spaceship.

If, as Marc says, cargo is the primary product of a world, and if it's
available in unlimited quantities, then the whole concept of speculative
trade in Traveller has changed. For one thing, if a product is available
in unlimited quantities, the laws of supply and demand say that I will
be buying that product at _extremely_ low prices, much lower than what
the charts indicate.

It also means that there's no point hunting for a good deal or for
interesting things to buy: there's only one thing to buy and it's really
cheap.

Am I confused?


- --
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #217
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 25 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 218



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: IG "Catching their Breath"
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Glass Rod pictures (more culture)
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: T4-Combat Questions
Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)
Re: T4-Combat Questions
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Luriani
re:the fate of Antares
Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: Zhodani Secret Gelding Grip(tm)
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: Surface Damage

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 98 22:51:09 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: IG "Catching their Breath"

On 02/24/98 at 07:07 AM,  aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
said:

>>We will see what will happen.  They have
>>indicated that "they want to catch their collective breath" (if you have
>>received the posting on Steve Jackson Games' list - I don't know if it got
>>posted on the TML - I sure hope so).  

I wondered about that! I haven't seen a post from IG on TML, did I miss
their post somehow? Was it a press release? It wasn't on their website, I
checked. Could someone post a copy of whatever IG released?

>>I hope that this "breath catching" involves improving customers relations.  

Yes, I'm sure we *all* hope that's the case.

>I will *not* comment on this. You all know what you think I would think it
>means (is that clear?) anyway.

Ah, Phil! Whatever do you mean? ;-p

Frankly, I'm not surprised about the "breath catching." IG has pretty much
completed the collection of M0 books, and until Marc has T4.1 ready it
doesn't make much sense to push a lot of new material out the door. The
existing books seem to be selling pretty well, regardless of what some
people think of them, so conserving resources until they are ready to start
back up with the new T4.1 line and/or they see how the GURPS line does
makes good business sense. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 98 23:13:45 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

On 02/24/98 at 12:52 PM,  "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu> said:

>Marc Miller writes:

>>>I use a ten-sided die for this, and reroll on 10. But then, I'm a heretic.
>>
>>That's the problem. By definition, the Traveller universe recognizes only six
>>sided regular solids.

>   Unless of course you play TRAVELLER NE...higher levels of geometry
>become possible then.

Or you join the heretics and become illuminated!  We heretics have found
there are many geometries available to Traveller, if you will only open you
mind. ;->

As many of you know, I've argued against the use of the d3 in T4 and Marc's
T4.1, so it will surprise many when I say, I think the d3 should be used
extensively in character generation, as should d10's and our old friend the
d6. 

Eris,
    the heretic

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:58:57 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Glass Rod pictures (more culture)

At 01:52 PM 24/02/98 -0500, Paul Darius Owensby wrote:
>My God, first the Syleans co-opt Barbie, and now the Vilani want
>credit for inventing the Lite Brite! What's next, the Zhos claiming the
>rights to Mr. Potato Head? The Hivers marketing their own version
>of Twister?!
>
>I can see that when the Solomani lawyers get word of this, war won't
>be far behind!

So there you have it, folks!

The real reason behind the Interstellar Wars :)

- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

   "If in doubt - wipe it out."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 01:24:07 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

>Culturally, Different planets and cities differ in their need for security.
>Even Boston vs. a relatively wealthy suburb - like Burlington (MA) - have
>vastly different security needs.  My point above is that there will be
>plenty of homes and businesses that will not got to the time and expense
>(and in some cases hazard and inconvenience - like filling your shop with
>nitrogen every night) of buying security equivalent to a bank or military
>installation.

Yes, undoubtedly different places will have different security needs.
However, real need and perceived need are two entirely different things.  And
with the proliferation of technology in the Traveller universe, and the low
cost of high technology on high tech worlds skews the cost factor severely.

Sure, these places won't have the heavy bank sensors of modern day labs and
banks, but, even the simplest systems on a high tech world will be very
powerful, smaller, less expensive, and require less maintenance.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 01:29:08 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

>That said, it makes perfect sense for an import/export company on a TL 9
> world to import TL 14 security equipment...if there is a criminal culture
> on their world which regularly breaks in, defeating TL9 to TL13 security
> systems routinely.

Whoops, sent my message before I actually finished it.  This logic only works
if the business on a TL9 world goes about it linearly.  "Okay, our TL9 system
didn't work, call up that TL10 planet and find out what they've got!"
"Whoops, that didn't work, okay, get the TL11 world on the horn..." and so
on...

Furthermore, the criminals are going to make every attempt to purchase devices
of a higher tech level to make their jobs easier and safer for themselves...

Every single Mom and Pop operation in the Imperium isn't going to have a TL14
security system, but anything that has something worth stealing by going
through the trouble of using a TL13/14 stealth suit or what not might possibly
have one.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:36:53 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: T4-Combat Questions

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:21:38 EST, DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 2/23/98 12:11:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> DPoole@therston.rc.hollandc.pe.ca writes:
> 
> << And of course there was a third question I had, but who can
>  remember!?  I'll save it for later.
>   >>
> 
> I'll ask one...what is the oft-mentioned but never explained Rapid fire bonus,
> and how does it work?

The conversion rules in 3G3 for T4 use something like this:

Rnds/Turn   Damage   RoF DM   Weapon Type
   <30       1.5x      -1
  30-60       2x       -0
  61-120     2.5x      +1
 121-300      3x       +2     RF
   >300       4x       +4     VRF

Damage is modified *after* armour penetration.

Notice the negative DM for firing a weapon with a calculated ROF of less
than 5 rounds per second.  It actually makes sense, and the attack still
does cause more damage than normal.  Also note that the "Rnds/Turn" figure
does not allow you to reload and continue firing in the same combat turn.
If a weapon has an ROF of 10 rounds per second, but only has a 28 round
clip, it uses the "<30" row.

Hopefully Marc is reading this and will include such a rule in T4.1.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:36:51 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:59:23 -0700 (MST), Merrick Burkhardt wrote:

> > But then this same tactic would make missiles literally obsolete, since
> > their sensors would have to be exposed to laserfire as well.  Hmmmm...
>  
> They are ;-) That is why missiles are so easy to kill. Regardless of
> how much you might want to armor a missile, its sensors can't be,
> and need to be pointed right at the target.  That is why det-lasers
> make sense since they try to detonate at a range far enough out that
> they haven't been hit yet.

Oops!  I just thought of something (after re-reading my previous post).
This would only apply to self-seeking missiles.  Missiles steered via the
mothership would communicate via a laser and a sensor mounted in the tail
of said missile (thereby putting the sensor out of range of enemy fire).
Of course, with the delay in communication over the beam, the target may
not be where you think it is by the time the missile receives the "turn
left 0.2 degrees" command...

> > Visual sensors would be the only ones that would be particularly
> > susceptible to lasers, since they share a common medium (ie: light).
> 
> I don't mean to somehow overpower the detector, I mean to pysically
> destroy it. The same laser will punch a hole right throught a
> person, it just won't be able to drill through a few cm of BSD.

Yes, but if all you need to do is damage the delicate components of a
sensor system, you could get away firing far more laser pulses of less
power.  Instead of ROFs of 800, try 80,000!  Now how do you hide a sensor
from *that*? :)

> > Things like densitometers and gravity detectors could be buried behind
> > protective armour, since I do not believe their proximity to the surface of
> > a ship is necessary for them to function.
>  
> They would be pretty useless as sensors for things other than
> astrophysics/geology.

Computer, aboard a starship missing all of its EMS sensor arrays:

   "There is a large 1.17 Gee gravity source 5 degrees of the port bow.  Do
     you wish to alter course?"

Navigator:

    "&%^@!, yes!!"




James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:36:54 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: T4-Combat Questions

On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:00:42 -0400, Dale Poole wrote:

> I have finally moved over to the T4 combat rules, and came across a
> couple of difficulties in our session last night.  In fact it was the *first*
> Trav combat I've ever run, so the questions are probably old ones:
> 
> 1.  Autofire.  Aside from primary and adjacent targets, how is damage
> assigned?  Specifically, if you're firing a five round burst, do you assign
> damage for each round, or for the burst as a whole?  How do you
> determine where each individual round goes?

Please see my other post.

> 2.  What are the effects of being hit by HEAP rounds?  Are there
> penetration rules, or do you simply assign the extra damage afforded by
> HEAP rather than having a pierced set of armour?

Rules for HEAP weapons like AV mines and missiles can be "extracted" from
the damage codes in Emperor's Arsenal.  A "LAAW-8" has a damage code of "23
(16 expl.)".  A total of 23 dice are used to attempt to breach the armour
(the "AP" part), while only 16 are used to determine blast effects to those
standing nearby (the "HE" part).

BTW, the "Fragment" listing for such weapons as the "Grenade-8" is covered
under Explosives on p. 59 of the T4 rulebook.  "Directed Fragmentation" and
additional "Explosives" rules are also included on p. 9 of Emperor's
Arsenal.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:53:37 -0800
From: Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

>From thee charts for T4.1

[snip]

>	Social standing determines the cost to that individual for basic
>living.
>	Cr250 x Soc = Typical cost of monthly support (food, clothes, lodging,
>basic entertainment).

No sir, I don't like it. I'm roughly middle class and spend less than twice
the amount on monthly support than a relative who, I will charitably say,
is near the bottom of the social scale. At the same time, my monthly
support is only an infinitesimal fraction of that of celebrities like Elton
John or Ivana Trump, who apparently are not able to live in the manner they
are accustomed to when only taking in mere tens of millions of dollars per
year.

Yet the proposed monthly support cost would make me spend roughly quadruple
that of a low-status person, and less than half that of a planetary ruler.
Moreover, such a distribution would suggest there are roughly equal numbers
of people at each social rank.

I don't think so.

If cost of living is to be related to social standing, it should use some
kind of exponential scale, where low scores only increase costs slightly,
while high scores require vastly greater expenditures.

- --
Richard Hough
richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:02:43 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Luriani

>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:49:09 -0800
>From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
>Subject: Re: Luriani

>Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

>> Okay, over the last few days I've worked out a rough sketch of the Luriani
>> culture and physiology, as well as do some minor alterations to the history

>A very interesting and well done development. I do think you may have
>been too hard on them though, considering the following selected text
>areas.

>[snip]
>> The semi-aquatic nature of the Luriani enabled them to utilise the shallow
>> seas around their island homes for hunting and gathering

>[snip]
>>> Thus by -30,000 the Luriani had established a world
>> spanning trading civilisation complete with organised warfare, despite the
>> fact that they were still a TL0 hunter gatherer culture without any
>> domesticated animals or form of agriculture.

>I would think that such an inventive and resourceful culture would have
>developed some method of domesticating forms of undersea animals and
>agricultural development, even if it was only in the organization of say
>an artistically beautiful coral reef display inviting tourism from other
>islands (much like the area on the northern coast of Australia). This
>might also have led to the piracy and warfare that developed, despite
>what seems should be a fun loving, creative and carefree society. I
>can't imagine what they had to fight about.

I envisioned them refining their hunting and gathering techniques into
a form of ranching. So although the animals were not "domesticated" they
were exploited a lot more efficently than might be expected. But I wanted
to convey a dichotomy of culture that was both extremly primitive and
extremely sophisticated at the same time. However I do like your idea of
art via domesticated animals; that would appeal to the Luriani.

As to warfare, well have you ever seen artists together :*>. The Luriani
are a *very* emotional people; they take jealousy, greed, anger and
passion to whole new levels. A critical debate as to the merits of the
Impressionists as against the pre-Raphaelites amongst the Luriani could
easily lead to bloodshead and full scale mobilisations.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"15 into 1 does go, I'm living proof"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:46:32 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:the fate of Antares

Dedly@aol.com wrote:

>According to Challenge 43 (as posted on the "alternative" IG website), there's
>a TNS entry from 1120 that states that astronomers believe that Antares has a
>55% chance of going nova within the next 250 years. Has there been any follow
>up info to this? I remember reading on the TML that the Julian Protectorate
>did not survive the war but I don't recall the exact fate. Did Antares already
>go nova? Did Lucan's forces wipe them out? Or did they succumb to Virus along
>with most everyone else? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

IIRC that was part of DGPs plans for the Rebellions' endgame. However, I
think it was abandoned by GDW when TNE was released.

From faded memories of MTJ#4

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:42:47 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Ship Sizes, Names

"Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>I agree.  However you probably need to modify the component costs
>downward to make this happen.  Remember that a Correlian Corvette
>(150m in length)costs only 3.5Mcr.  Any ship this size in Traveller
>would easily cost 100Mcr, heck it's hard to design a 200dt ship for
>20Mcr.

Since when has a Star Wars MCr been the same as a Traveller MCr?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:40:27 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:

>Ouch.  Throw away that hardpoint rule, and CT rules can produce some
>really *nasty* ships!  Imagine a 400 ton ship with a 50 ton bay!  Ouch!

There's nothing in CT (Bk5, 2nd Ed) to stop you doing that apart from the
power demands. 1 bay per 1000 dT is the rule. MT's COACC had orbital
satellites with bays in the sub-1000dt range. So it appears to be
interpreted as *1 bay per 1000dT or part there of*.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 03:33:41 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Zhodani Secret Gelding Grip(tm)

>Eyeballs?  Who said anything about eyeballs?  Eyeballs!  That'd be sheer
>luck.  Son, you'd be BEGGING to have your eyeballs dug out of their sockets
>with a grapefruit spoon if you knew what GAWDAWFUL THINGS this guy knew how
>to do with a lace doily thingy.

Hmmm, "nasal floss" comes to mind, among other things....
**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:42:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

In mail you write:

> Hi Leonard,
>
> I like this one too (especially the one without order to the dice), but
> the 1D3 algorithm takes less printed space.  We could also express it as a
> formula: 
>
> Population Multiplier = 1D3 + [ 3 x (1D3 - 1) ]
>
> Where "1D3" is simply a shorthand for "floor(1D6/2)".  I think that's
> basically the same as your first table, but I really like that second one.

if you insist on 1-3, then it gets a bit odd. For one thing, you can't
have an "order independent" table.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:47:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

In mail, traveller@mpgn.com writes:

> Other problems arise when you admit that the same technology can be applied
> to cars, guns, spacecraft, etc.  Hey! why not make a bag out of the stuff
> to put guns in to smuggle through customs?  Or how about an invisible
> grav-maserati zipping around the city?  The potential implications can
> be...a strain on the imagination beyond the usual ones.

Customs *will* have the best tech they can afford for the cases where
nothing else will do. But that stealth bag is likely to be defeated by
something as simple as a "pat down" search, or a trained "sniffer"
animal.

As for an invisible grav-maserati, you will have problems because the
*other* traffic doesn't see. you. And because you can't see out very
well. 

> [snip]
>> Imagine that you had a suit where each point on the
>>surface was, actually, a small fiber optic wire connected to the
>>diametrically opposed point on your other side. If you stood infront of
>>something the light from behind you would "shine through you" out the other
>>side.
>
> Hmm, How is this different (aside from being a more complete explanation of
> the how) from the chameleon option? 

The chameleon coating changes the *surface color* of the suit to match
the "background", and, like a chameleon, this loses out where you are
up against a wall and someone looks *along* the wall. You are only
"invisible" in certain directions.

The fiber idea is to "carry" the *lihght* that hits one spot to a spot
on the opposite side of the suit, and release it going in the original
direction. In effect, "bending" the light around you. So for *any*
direction you are "invisible" 

> It seems to  me that the chameleon
> covering at its highest TLs is measuring light from all directions and
> 'changing its spots' in the diametrically opposed direction to match.

But because it is doing this with surface coloring, you have the
inherent problem that a given spot on the surface can only be *one*
color, but the color of the relevant bit of background depends on which
direction you are looking at the suit from.

If this isn't clear place a object (say a glass) on a table. place the
point of a pencil against the surface. Look at whatever is *behind* the
glass and figure out what color that part of the glass would have to be
to "blend in". Now, without taking the point of the pencil off that
spot, move around the glass until the background is a different color. 

See, for one direction the spot has to be (say) the color of the wall),
for the other, it has to be the color of the couch. But it can only be
*one* color. So for some directions the suit will make you *more*
noticable. Oops!

>>Nor is this technique limited to visual. You could also pass through low
>>level sound or ultra-sound (see recent developments in solid-state
>>speakers), IR, or whatever. This might also form a clever way to dump your
>>excess heat. You analyse the IR that is passing through you and add your
>>own IR (or a portion thereof) in with an appropriate dispersion so as to
>>fool most detection software.
>
> I know you're going to tell me its all EM energy, but I would think it
> would take something different to handle the visual vs audible spectrum of
> EM energy.  Hence I feel the ultrasonic defeating strategy and the visible
> light defeating strategy would need to be different.  strategies for light
> and UV, IR and other nearby bands could be the same though.

Acoustic energy is *not* EM! Sound is waves of differences in *air
pressure*. So you are correct in thinking that two vaery different
methods pof handling things are needed.

>>>I'm not sure what you are saying here, respiration occurs through a
>>simple,
>>>noise suppressed, mask.
>>What, I beleive, he is saying is that instead of having a single outlet for
>>the air, it is dispersed through the entire surface of the suit. Think of
>>the suit like a baloon. Instead of letting all the air out through one
>>orifice (no wisecracks please), imagine instead you had little holes all
>>over it. That way you don't get any strong air currents or so forth. It
>>shouldn't be that difficult to do if the surface is permiable to it at that
>>level. You just work it so the whole suit in permiable at a low level and
>>also filters out unwanted.
>>Of course it will need some dry cleaning job at the end of it all!
>
> Not a bad idea, but I think the detector that would pick up such currents
> is obscure.  Perhaps more aof a point-heat source dissipater, but then
> you'd make the whole person a heat source.

You detect air current via the ultrasonic "radar", differences in aire
density cause frequency and phase shifts in the returned signal.
Differences in air *velocity* cause doppler shifting. This is stuff
that we can do *now*. It's just that brezes through the window, drafts,
and the heating system all make it something that actually has to be
filtered *out*. 

Given a more controlled environment, or more computer power in the
sensor, it could be a real problem. (ie, it'd be able to figure out the
"shape", "size" and temp" of any air disturbance, and sound an alarm in
it was essentially humanlike.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:07:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

In mail you write:

> Peter H. Brenton <pbrenton@mit.edu> writes:
>
>> >I was giving that as a "natural" ability for a suit that *didin't*
>> >allow chemicals (ie "odors") to escape.
>> 
>> Permeability to the moisture of sweat and breath in one direction seems to
>> me to imply permeability in the other direction too.

Compare the *size* of the molecules involved, water, O2 and CO2 are all
*small* molecules. The various trace chemicals useful for detecting
intruders are *much* large (like a beachball versus a golf ball). Ditto
for the various chemical warfare agents. And viruses are *incrediblly
large (if a water molecule is a cm across a small virus is quite a few
*meters* across). Ditto for the dust particles that constitute "fallout".
Radiation will still get thru.

On the down side, membranes with regular pores that small are hard to
make. And currently, they tend to be fragile. And have limited
thoughput.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:59:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Surface Damage

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> Things like densitometers and gravity detectors could be buried behind
>>> protective armour, since I do not believe their proximity to the surface 
> of
>>> a ship is necessary for them to function.
>>  
>> They would be pretty useless as sensors for things other than
>> astrophysics/geology.
>
> Depends. They may be useful for detecting ships at "close" ranges. At
> least enough to give other sensors an idea of where to look.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> "Sir, our gravitic sensor is picking up a target!"
> "Of course it is, Ensign. You installed it inside our ship, and succeeded in 
> detecting us."
>
> One of my (US) Navy friends has used the phrase "as useful as a metal
> detector on board a submarine." - I think that would apply to a
> densitometer or grav detector that was inside a starship. If you have
> a contra-grav field running, can you detect any gravity sources? Isn't
> your field countering all outside grav influences?

Nope. Mass detectors detect exactly that. They are inherently 3d. Just
like using a compass on a steel ship, you "calbrate" the sensor after
installation so as to compensate for the "fixed" mass of the ship. 

Cargo and supplies will be added to the database as they are loaded.
And this is where many a smuggler/stoaway gets caught. The manifest
entry says the module is one thing, but the detector says that the mass
or density (mass distribution) is wrong. At which point the module gets
checked out *very* carefully. 

Crew moving around requires active compensation but is still doable. 

> Hmmm...or are you not detecting grav influences from a dedicated
> gravitometer? Are you just analyzing stresses on the contra-grav
> generators?  And just how much gravitic disturbance does a ship with
> a 1G internal artificial gravity field make, anyway?

Even ignoring the fact that the effects of contragrav have to be
*different* from those of gravity, given the way it is described as
working, the detector *will* need a tie in with the inertial
compensators/internal gravity. But again, that's going to be a known
signal, and thus something you can ignore.

Remember, mass detectors *exist*. And they work on the earths surface,
which is a lot stronger signal source than anything on board ship will
be! 

Essentially they measure *changes* in the field strength, and to locate
things they rotate, so that *they* generate* a change in the field even
if the "target" isn't moving.

So a ship will have multiple, widely seperated units, as well as one
near the ship's "center". 

These detect "mass" or "density boundaries". They are *not* gravity
wave detectors. Those are a quite different item and work quite
differently.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #218
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, February 25 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 219



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Escort Tonnage
Re: unlimited cargo?
Re: Glass Rod pictures
Planetary Meson Guns
T4.1 documents from marc...
result: unsubscribe
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: quiz
Re: T4.1 documents from marc...
Mass Detectors
Re: T4.1 documents from marc...
!!!! HELP - Traveller Items needed
Re: Please help, not Traveller related...
Traveller & Magic
En Garde for Traveller
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Traveller & Magic
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: result: unsubscribe
WBH fun
Re: more trade classifications
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: Planetary Meson Guns

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:37:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

In mail you write:

> All the technology would be tried and true by TL 15.  Lower TLs could
> solve the communication problem by some other means, perhaps a commo
> network on the ocean bottom.  Why go crazy spending TCr to put stuff in
> the mantle of the planet?

Researchers will be building "subterrenes" anyway. Once they get the
bugs out, the military may decide that it'd be worthwhile to have a few.

>> While I can see some devices mounted in large submersibles, I think the
>> average heavy planetary meson site will be deep underground, but still
>> in solid rock. Here's an idea - a high population world that's mostly
>> urbanized. It would probably have underground transit tubes, some
>> designed to carry heavy freight modules. Build a couple of hundred (or
>> thousand) meson gun modules, have them cycling around the transportation
>> system so the baddies won't know where they are. 
>
> How would they aim the meson guns?  The tubes would have to be really
> short for it to work.

No, if the network is extensive enough, you just move a gun to a
section of the network where it'll be pointing in the right direction.
This does somewhat constrain your firing solutions, but with even
current computers, it's not going to be *that* big a handicap.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:25:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Deep meson sites will have similar protection and security. And there
> may even be sites analogous to submarines, "swimming" through the molten
> rock inside the planet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> How do you intent to protect the mobile site from the pressure and 
> temperature at those depths? I don't think even TL 12 engineering can 
> withstand conditions inside a planet's mantle. Of course, if you could pull 
> it off then power wouldn't be a problem...

Temp is a problem, but enough refrigeration gear will let you keep
cool, at the cost of creating a *very* hot spot next to you. Luckiliy,
by the time enough heat leaks through the crust, you'll be somewhere
else. IR detectors *won't* work.

Pressure is a problem, but I suspect that with things like superdense,
you can make something stronger than mere rock. But i agree that you
aren't going to be going *too* deep. 

> While I can see some devices mounted in large submersibles, I think
> the average heavy planetary meson site will be deep underground, but
> still in solid rock. Here's an idea - a high population world that's
> mostly urbanized. It would probably have underground transit tubes,
> some designed to carry heavy freight modules. Build a couple of
> hundred (or thousand) meson gun modules, have them cycling around the
> transportation system so the baddies won't know where they are.

You've just re-invented the "ICBM disguised as a freight car". :-)

Note that the more urbanized the planet the harder it'll be to knock
out the sensors for the meson sites. There will be a planet wide web of
"fiber optic" (or similar) data links. And it's quite possible that the
sensors for the deep meson sites will be cheap simple sensor packages
that are part of every buildings data link. So the deep sites tap into
the data stream and have the equivalent of a million to *billion*
element interferometer covering the planet. Chopping enough holes in
the web to seriously degrade the capability of such a setup would look
a lot like "indisciminate carpet bommbing of civilian areas" :-)

So unless you are trying to *destroy* the culture, rather than conquer
it, you have to just accept the fact that you can't knock out their
"spotters". And you may not be able to knock out the deep meson sites. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:10:13 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

Jim Cooper wrote:
> > I suppose ideally you want to integrate the En Guard rules for
> > Social Level change into Traveller. (Being seen with the 'right'
> > people, contributing to worthy causes, patronising the Arts ...
> > in _addition_ to conspicous spending.) Also, there should be a
> > difference between Social Level and Noble Title, even if the two
> > factors are related (spending like a Duke will not get you a
> > Duchy).
> >
> Nope. I'm not trying to integrate any rules changes to anything. I'm
> only commenting on what others have written, and trying to imagine their
> considered reasoning. On his points, I can both see where he is coming
> from and I agree that that is probably what would happen or have to
> happen before any change would come about. Do you feel that the change,
> as he has decribed it, would come about faster in another way? If so, in
> what way?

Actually, I'm coming at this from  another  direction:  it  _can_
work as originally posted, but not always.

Consider the group of dirt poor belters  who  strike  the  mother
lode.  They decide to retire and enjoy the good life ... they buy
a mansion ... have installed a 10 meter  high  statue  of  Albert
Eienstein urinating expensive mineral water into a pond  (on  the
front lawn) ...  always  feed  dinner  guests  burger  and  fries
(served by white gloved staff) ... keep the  ketchup  in  crystal
decanters ("cos its class, init?") ... join the local  golf  club
and always take a large keg of beer with them while they  try  to
play (and yelling and laughing at the other patrons).  Somehow  I
feel that even after a year of high spending they may  still  not
get their quota of invites to the local Duke's social evenings.

Something else needs to happen in _addition_ to  spending  before
social class will rise.  Its that 'something else'  that  I  feel
has been missing from the rules.  Hense my original comment about
En Guard.



Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen
"Another day, another body count."
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:34:13 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Escort Tonnage

In my variuos starport berth calcs, I recommended a merchant fleet that 
is 10x the space navy (on a tonnage basis).

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:34:15 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: unlimited cargo?

The amount of speculative cargo is unlimited as far as a group of PCs 
in their 200 T ship are concerned.  The more people you have out 
looking for cargo (I recall 1 task roll/day per person, but I can't 
find the rule at the moment), the more cargoes you have to choose from. 
 If no-one looks for cargo, then they are unlikely to find any!

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:02:54 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Glass Rod pictures

Paul D. Owensby writes:
>My God, first the Syleans co-opt Barbie, and now the Vilani want
>credit for inventing the Lite Brite!

I gather from your remark that someone has invented something similar, or
even identical to, the glass rod pictures I made up. I didn't know that,
but now that I do, all I can say is "So what? What does a mostly unknown
toy on one planet have to do with a major sector-spanning artform else-
where, even if they use the same medium?" However, if you give me the
names of a few famous Lite Brite artists and tell me what museums they
are displayed at, I'll amend the Library Data entry to mention that the
art form was also known on pre-starflight Terra.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:00:26 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Planetary Meson Guns

Rob Prior wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Walt Smith writes:
>Here's an idea - a high population world that's mostly urbanized. It
>would probably have underground transit tubes, some designed to carry
>heavy freight modules. Build a couple of hundred (or thousand) meson
>gunmodules, have them cycling around the transportation system so the
>baddies won't know where they are.

Hereby turning the entire transportation infrastructure into a legitimate
military target. Suppose it would work if you're expecting total war...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You already did that when you dispersed meson site sensors all over the planet.

Another way to think of it, though - now no one can attack your planet without turning it into a radioactive slag heap. You are thereby protected from anyone who wants to capture your planet - what's the point of shattering your starfleet and bleeding your drop troops to capture a wasteland? If the enemy doesn't have to take you, this kind of defense could make them leave you alone.

People who want to deny your planet to someone else, or destroy your base of operations are still a problem. If you're an important planet in a frontier sector of an empire, or your system is home to a naval or other force-projection base, then you're a good candidate for radioactive wasteland if you defend the planet at all (or not at all - someone could nuke you dead simply because they couldn't defend you if they took you).

I guess it depends, as always, on the nature of the foe and the nature of the expected conflict.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:03:02 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: T4.1 documents from marc...

I've had a little hard drive problem, and my copies of the preliminary 4.1
stuff that Marc has sent out to people have been screwed up (like the task
system, character generation, etc...). Could some kind soul please email me
a copy of these documents? I assume that its legal, since Marc distrubuted
them in the first place...

Thanks...

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your  |
| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your |
| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love     |
| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your  |
| lives be blessed by the beauty that has touched mine.              |
|                    - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:21:08 -0800
From: Robert_Fain@notes.ymp.gov
Subject: result: unsubscribe

Robert_Fain@YMP.GOV unsubscribe traveller@mpgn.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:18:43 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

>Something else needs to happen in _addition_ to  spending  before
>social class will rise.  Its that 'something else'  that  I  feel
>has been missing from the rules.  Hense my original comment about
>En Guard.

It isn't all that difficult to be a good GM and be careful about giving out
heaps of SOC for no reason.  In addition to this, there is actually an
experience system in T4 (and T4.1).  I doubt that Marc instituted the
"spending rule" so that every character could make big money and become dukes
and such.

A GM shouldn't have to have detailed rules for _everything_.  That's why we
call it _role_ playing, not roll playing.  SOC is a measure of ones social
clout in Imperial society.  A great work of art (which there are rules for in
Trav), and the networking involved to raise your SOC (the money spent on the
right clothes, the right people, the right parties) could raise it, if you had
the experience points to spend to do so.

And so on...  Besides, a statue of a urinating Einstein is class in my book!
:^)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:34:10 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: quiz

Thanks for the help, it came in handy.  Much appreciated.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:29:54 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 documents from marc...

Andrew Akins wrote:

> I've had a little hard drive problem, and my copies of the preliminary 4.1
> stuff that Marc has sent out to people have been screwed up (like the task
> system, character generation, etc...). Could some kind soul please email me
> a copy of these documents? I assume that its legal, since Marc distrubuted
> them in the first place...

I missed the character generation stuff, so if someone is emailing Andrew that
stuff, could they please include me in the recipient list?

I'd email you the task stuff, but it's at home and I'm at work.

Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:18:28 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Mass Detectors

Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nope. Mass detectors detect exactly that. They are inherently 3d. Just
like using a compass on a steel ship, you "calbrate" the sensor after
installation so as to compensate for the "fixed" mass of the ship. 

Cargo and supplies will be added to the database as they are loaded.
And this is where many a smuggler/stoaway gets caught. The manifest
entry says the module is one thing, but the detector says that the mass
or density (mass distribution) is wrong. At which point the module gets
checked out *very* carefully. 

Crew moving around requires active compensation but is still doable. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This gives every ship with mass detectors 100% accurate internal sensors...something to keep in mind when writing "Intruder on Board" style scenarios.

I'm imagining a warship straining with every passive sensor to detect a hostile craft. The crew doesn't move, doesn't dare breathe, so the mass detectors can use all their computing power looking for the bad guy instead of compensating for the crew movements...would kind of give you the tense feeling like those old WWII movies, with the submarine crew holding their breath as the enemy destroyer comes closer...

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:55:42 -0700 (MST)
From: "P. ENGEBOS" <pengebos@NMSU.Edu>
Subject: Re: T4.1 documents from marc...

On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Erwin Fritz wrote:

> Andrew Akins wrote:
> 
> > I've had a little hard drive problem, and my copies of the preliminary 4.1
> > stuff that Marc has sent out to people have been screwed up (like the task
> > system, character generation, etc...). Could some kind soul please email me
> > a copy of these documents? I assume that its legal, since Marc distrubuted
> > them in the first place...

I'm missing big chunks of the stuff.  Could anyone mailing andrew CC it to
me also?

Peter Engebos				<pengebos@nmsu.edu>
T'Sarith, Lord deGaalth			<tsarith@io.com>
		http://web.nmsu.edu/~pengebos/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:01:37 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: !!!! HELP - Traveller Items needed

Hi once again.

	I first must apologize for wasting band width for this request, but the
last time I had done it, the results were better than expected.  So here it
goes:

	I am in desperate need of the following items, and I am willing to pay
handsomely ($50.00 - $100.00) per item for originals, or trade for the
following:

	Alien Module #4 - Zhodani
	Solomani & Aslan
	The Flaming Eye
	101 Robots (This is a pipe dream, I know, but just maybe...)

	Any interested parties, please contact Scott Spieker at
scspieker@ncweb.com

Thanks,
Scott Spieker

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:07:45 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Please help, not Traveller related...

>I also do Napoleonic minis, so I know a Busby as a round black bearskin hat
>(its' shape was roughly like a pillbox hat on steroids) worn by the elite
>companies of French Hussars (light cavalry). I believe that the English used
>them as headgear for their Royal Horse Artillery. Good luck to your mom. PS
If
>she wins send her to the Imperial War Museum, and H.M.S. Belfast, and tell
her
>to take a lot of pictures; you'll like them.

Okay, thanks alot for the help.  I appreciate it.  If she goes, I'll tell her
to take the pictures!  :^)  Thanks again

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:38:45 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Traveller & Magic

Craig Berry typed:
>> >iv) Traveller as a generic game system (a "magic" system for Traveller)
>> No.  Not.  The only way I would accept this is a world where the local
>> wizards are psionicists.
>And why not?  Sufficiently powerful psi is indistinguishable from magic. 

Many moons ago there was a "Thieves' World" boxed set put out that covered
many game systems, including Traveller (CT).

The magic aspect of the setting was handled by either Psionics or the Niven
Rule.  

Under the Niven rule, this lead to interesting plot devices.  How did the
wizards get the high tech items?  Are there current traders landing and
trading high tech items?  What items of value are the local wizards trading
for high tech items?  What lengths will the traders and wizards go to
maintain their trade?


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was 
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway. 
That's our story and we're sticking to it.  
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:48:42 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: En Garde for Traveller

A couple of digests ago someone mentioned something about En Garde for
Traveller.

Have you actually done such a conversion?  If so, I'd be _very_ interested
in seeing it (and I bet I'm not the only one!).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:00:04 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

It was said;

>Population Multiplier = 1D3 + [ 3 x (1D3 - 1) ]

A friend picked up FF&S2 and opened to a particular page.  He saw a formula
that involved multiple level parentheses over (i.e. divided by) some other
formulaic construct and immediately putit down.

Now, I'm not saying there should not be gearhead supplements.  But the
basic rulebook should go to great lengths to *oversimplify* die rolling
conventions used.  For this reason, I would advocate a simple 2d-2 which,
of course, bell curves toward the '5' level.  So what?  This simply means
that there are more worlds in the 10000s of people than any other single
distribution.  It also means '0' pop worlds and 'A' pop worlds are unlikely
(all other aspects being equal).  If you remove this aspect you have as
many worlds with Billions as you do with none and that is just as bad a
problem.

Simplify!  You're not making a gearhead book your making a basic ruleset.
One thing that we are forgetting is that CT worked because it was simple.
We don't have ot use CT in its original form, but let's capture some of its
more attractive featires.

Just my Cr. .02

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
 Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- -Hamlet, Act 1 Scene 5

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:26:48 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller & Magic

Eclipse@ultranet.com wrote;
>Craig Berry typed:
>>> >iv) Traveller as a generic game system (a "magic" system for Traveller)
>>> No.  Not.  The only way I would accept this is a world where the local
>>> wizards are psionicists.
>>And why not?  Sufficiently powerful psi is indistinguishable from magic.
[snip]
>Under the Niven rule, this lead to interesting plot devices.  How did the
>wizards get the high tech items?  Are there current traders landing and
>trading high tech items?  What items of value are the local wizards trading
>for high tech items?  What lengths will the traders and wizards go to
>maintain their trade?

Other possibilities;

1). Artifacts leftover from an earlier civilization

2). Wizards are a group of elite technicians who hoard technical knowledge
and portray it as "Magic" (this falls apart quickly, unfortunately due to
the need for 'base' technologies to support the kinds of advanced tech we
want).

3). As (2) but the source of parts and knowledge is offplanet, as you refer
to above.

>  What items of value are the local wizards trading
>for high tech items?

Good Question.  I would guess power.  Wizards under this scenario would
rule swaths of territory and occassionally be "from afar" (which means they
are immigrants from other planets who want to wield their power directly).
Others collect a lot of taxes in the form of, perhaps, gems and gold, which
have some value, or finished handmade goods, which at least would be worth
transporting.

The traders are basically selling "trinkets" so value doesn't have to be
tremendous.

>What lengths will the traders and wizards go to
>maintain their trade?

The traders?  Who cares, there's another planet down the line if this one
has too many problems.  The Wizards? The trade is their lifeblood, but if
they have enough toys for now they can get along (depending on where they
get their power and how durable their devices are wrt spares).

Interesting scenarios do tend to pop up though.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
 Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- -Hamlet, Act 1 Scene 5

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:27:31 EST
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

Semo wrote:

>>That said, it makes perfect sense for an import/export company on a TL 9
>> world to import TL 14 security equipment...if there is a criminal culture
>> on their world which regularly breaks in, defeating TL9 to TL13 security
>> systems routinely.
>
>Whoops, sent my message before I actually finished it.  This logic only works
>if the business on a TL9 world goes about it linearly.  "Okay, our TL9 system
>didn't work, call up that TL10 planet and find out what they've got!"
>"Whoops, that didn't work, okay, get the TL11 world on the horn..." and so
>on...

    Actually, I've always taken the TL issues differently, especially
considering the Collapse.  In a TL15 (borderline 16) Imperium, is that TL9
world actually ignorant of where to go?  I don't think the TL system really
makes sense, considering that the lack of "direction" on "where to go" is a
big problem w/ r&d.  Alot of times it's just  that *hint* or nudge that can
push u over the edge to a new discovery.  
    I've always taken it to mean that the world in question just wasn't
capable of sustaining that TL industry in meaningful quantities but that some
very small amount of production was possible, and indeed going on, but at
vastly enhanced costs and construction times.  What I mean is that there might
be a batman type guy out on that TL9 world using all sorts of higher tech
gadgets supported by his corporation (and not necessarily imported) and that
the Secret Service of said world can probably produce their own TL12 or 13
gear but probably just enough to equip maybe a couple hundred people.  
    As pertaining to the Collapse... I've always thought that some knowledge
would never be lost.  Like the nuclear bomb... even if every nation on Earth
got rid of em, Saddam Hussein would still research them.  Once it's known
something is possible, everyone interested in that item would research it
until it's done.  A specialized factory and industry would be needed but it
wouldn't be needed on a planetary scale to produce a few items.  I think that
the RC would probably be able to produce amounts of technology items that
starts broad at tl12, narrows until it reaches very few TL 15 items (primarily
those that are incremental in TL advance) and most likely none of the Tl16 and
17 (experimental) items being researched by the 3I.
     In fact, I think that planets would probably fairly quickly rise to the
Imperiums TL if their population and industry (resources and infrastructure)
could support it. 

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:32:47 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: result: unsubscribe

>Robert_Fain@YMP.GOV unsubscribe traveller@mpgn.com

Another foiled escape attempt... just sit quiet, Robert, and maybe They
won't punish you...  this time... whoops, too late.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:33:39 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: WBH fun

I was fooling around with an old WBH spreadsheet -- looking for a good
vacation planet for the Sayat, or something -- and was given the following
"local custom":

        Siesta required for convicted criminals.

Isn't this the coolest?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:47:07 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: more trade classifications

In a message dated 98-02-24 10:38:09 EST, you write:

<< << 
  All Barren worlds (pop 0) worlds are low population (pop 4-).
  All Low Population (pop 4-) worlds are Non-Industrial (pop 0-6).
  
  Thus Barren worlds get nailed thrice for its 0 population...
  Is that intentional?
  
>> >>
The range should be
LoPop (Pop 1-3)
NonInd (Pop 4-6)
Ba (Pop 0) (and Gov 0, and Law 0).

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:50:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, SD Mooney wrote:

> Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:
> 
> >Ouch.  Throw away that hardpoint rule, and CT rules can produce some
> >really *nasty* ships!  Imagine a 400 ton ship with a 50 ton bay!  Ouch!
> 
> There's nothing in CT (Bk5, 2nd Ed) to stop you doing that apart from the
> power demands. 1 bay per 1000 dT is the rule. MT's COACC had orbital
> satellites with bays in the sub-1000dt range. So it appears to be
> interpreted as *1 bay per 1000dT or part there of*.

Yes, I guess there is precedent for that; I forgot about COACC.  Also, the
fact that a sub-100 dt small craft can mount any turret is another example
of this.

That makes for a gruesome variant of the Valor class.  8-)


Clark

- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:08:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:

[previous discussion snipped for sanity of digest readers]

> So unless you are trying to *destroy* the culture, rather than conquer
> it, you have to just accept the fact that you can't knock out their
> "spotters". And you may not be able to knock out the deep meson sites. 

So that brings us back to the question:  how hard is it to locate a deep
meson site, and why?  (I.e. what is the "official" handwave?)  Once
located, it's a sitting duck for an enemy meson attack, even if equipped
with a meson screen.

Unless it's a really powerful meson screen.  Hmmmmm... I wonder how easy
it is for ships to do coordinated simultaneous attacks against a fixed
point inside a planetary body?  Would such attacks would confer any
benefit against a meson screen? 


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #219
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 26 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 220



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: Traveller & Magic
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Chameleon CE Suits
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #219
Re: T4-Combat Questions
Re: Meson Screens
Rob's Starport Economics (long)
Re: Glass Rod pictures
Re: Tech advances?
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Luriani

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:23:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Peter H. Brenton wrote:

> A friend picked up FF&S2 and opened to a particular page.  He saw a formula
> that involved multiple level parentheses over (i.e. divided by) some other
> formulaic construct and immediately putit down.

Yeah, that's not a whole lot of fun for most people.

> Simplify!  You're not making a gearhead book your making a basic ruleset.
> One thing that we are forgetting is that CT worked because it was simple.
> We don't have ot use CT in its original form, but let's capture some of its
> more attractive featires.

Agreed.  I was just jumping into the existing thread.  I'm still a fan of
CT too.  The basic rulebook doesn't need a population multiplier, just a
population digit.  The referee filled in the blanks.

For more advanced rules, Leonard's second table is probably best.


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 23:18 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

Moin Leonard Erickson,

> The chameleon coating changes the *surface color* of the suit to match
> the "background", and, like a chameleon, this loses out where you are
> up against a wall and someone looks *along* the wall. You are only
> "invisible" in certain directions.

	not with holographic cameleon skin, ok this would need extrem
	computing power, but you have it with holographic (tl13+) computers.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:07:59 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Traveller & Magic

>Under the Niven rule, this lead to interesting plot devices.  How did the
>wizards get the high tech items?
One such plot: the "wizards" are unaware of the technological nature of
said "magics".

Consdier this, say you have an advanced civilisation. For convienence they
build machines and a world-net that is, effectively "all seeing".
Satelites, microcameras, whatever. (Who was going on about nanites?) All
capable of self-repair. Rather than being burdened with carrying anything,
they interpret voice or gesture commands. Like IBM's Via Voice, only higher
tech. Whatever someone needs something from it they indicate so and it
produces the stuff via underground (self-repairing) factories, or calls up
the information and displays it locally via micro-projectors.
[Sort of like the planet in the Classic Trek episode "Shore Leave".]
Well, odds are that these people aren't going to keep their technology for
very long. At least their knowledge of their technology. If they can all
self-repair, you don't need to know how they are build. Education would
move to focus on other things like philosophy, entertaint, etc, etc.
Over time, they may even get to the point where they forget the actual
reason why it exists.
Now say some calatamous event creates a situation that disturbs this
harmony. An asteroid, plague spread by dirty telephones, or whatever. If
the machines can't deal with it the continuity of their culture will be
lost. Some might remember how to call up the commands, but keep the
knowledge to themselves. To others, as the language changes, it appears
cryptic, archaic.
Magic in other words.

A slightly different twist would be that the civilisation who built it was
non-human. A human colony came and tried to oust them since they were
obviously primitive, having no machines. They succeeded in wiping them out
but at the expense of maintaining their own industry. In their degenerate
culture, some may have learned to communicate with the few remaining
aliens, and learned from them some of the alien commands to work the
miracles...

Plenty of opportunities for those with active imaginations...

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:51:28 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

Richard Hough wrote:

> >From thee charts for T4.1
>
> [snip]
>
> >       Social standing determines the cost to that individual for basic
> >living.
> >       Cr250 x Soc = Typical cost of monthly support (food, clothes, lodging,
> >basic entertainment).
>
> No sir, I don't like it. I'm roughly middle class and spend less than twice
> the amount on monthly support than a relative who, I will charitably say,
> is near the bottom of the social scale.

Whats the Cr to US$ rate nowadays?1-1?  Egad!  I'm Soc 4!
2-1?  Ack!  I'm Soc 2!
And I'm in law school, thats surely a negative modifier.

Hi.  My name is Bloo.  < Hi, Bloo!> And I'm Soc sub-0.

Where's the 12 step program for low Soc?

But hold on a sec!  I was accepted to the US Naval Academy (turned it down
though).  That's SOC 8 minimum I think. And I sure didn't make it in on waivers.

Maybe this all means I need to spend a minimum of Cr2000 on food, clothes,
lodging,  basic entertainment, etc., to live in the manner deserving of those with
Soc 8.

Oh, Jeeves . . .

Yes, Master Bloo (hey, that sounds cool!).

Would you bring the bicycle to the front, I believe I'll take a tour of the
railway tracks in Brighton, Mass.  The rust glistens so lovely in the cold winter
light.

Certainly, Master Bloo.  May I ask what the Master would like for his evening
meal?

Yes, Jeeves.  Something special tonight, I should think.  Lets splurge!  You know
what I like.

Yes, Master Bloo.  Macaroni and Cheese it is, sir.

:-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:58:42 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> >Marc Miller writes:
>
> >>>I use a ten-sided die for this, and reroll on 10. But then, I'm a heretic.
> >>
> >>That's the problem. By definition, the Traveller universe recognizes only six
> >>sided regular solids.

[snip]

> As many of you know, I've argued against the use of the d3 in T4 and Marc's
> T4.1, so it will surprise many when I say, I think the d3 should be used
> extensively in character generation, as should d10's and our old friend the
> d6.

I have been known to rely on a deck of cards when the cat has made off with the
d6s.
BTW, shouldn't these different dice be deserving of names other than the simple
dx?  And not the geometrical terms like dodecahedron or whatever.  For example, a
six-sided die, known in short as "d6" might be called "Dixie."  D3  - either
"Half-Dixie,"  "Short Dixie" or the more unique "Dierdre" (from "dee-three").
D10?  "Dieter."  (now is the time on Sprockets with when Dance").

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:14:26 -0000
From: "Mark Archer" <M.Archer@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

Hi,
    Perhaps the Imperium put there Meson gun in the crust because of the
Psi-scare, the Zhodani.  After all if you miss you and your team are
fossils, or  fuel.  And I would guess the actual area for gunners would be
rather small.

        Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:58:54 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Chameleon CE Suits

I've had these things in my Traveller game since CT Mercenary days (IIRC).

Leonard Erickson pointed out that for one suggested option:

>The chameleon coating changes the *surface color* of the suit to match
>the "background", and, like a chameleon, this loses out where you are
>up against a wall and someone looks *along* the wall. You are only
>"invisible" in certain directions.

And that a potentially better option was:

>The fiber idea is to "carry" the *lihght* that hits one spot to a spot
>on the opposite side of the suit, and release it going in the original
>direction. In effect, "bending" the light around you. So for *any*
>direction you are "invisible" 

Depending upon the TL, my suits use either method. The first starts off
with rough spot colours, upgrades to very accurate emulation of background
(but with the disadvantage noted by Leonard above), then (hand wave) starts
using the sort of rounded emitters/screens that are being used for 3D TV
concepts, etc. to give a wider field of view over which the suit is
'invisible'. Eventually you get the fibre-sort of direct transfer approach
mentioned above which (hand wave hand wave) makes things better. However,
whatever the technology, such suits are far more effective in dim lighting
conditions when the user is immobile. I don't let 'invisible' characters
wander freely through high security areas... :-)

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:44:37 -0500
From: "Jim L" <bigjim@warwick.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #219

>Now, I'm not saying there should not be gearhead supplements.  But the
>basic rulebook should go to great lengths to *oversimplify* die rolling
>conventions used.  For this reason, I would advocate a simple 2d-2 which,
>of course, bell curves toward the '5' level.  So what?  This simply means
>that there are more worlds in the 10000s of people than any other single
>distribution.  It also means '0' pop worlds and 'A' pop worlds are
unlikely
>(all other aspects being equal).  If you remove this aspect you have as
>many worlds with Billions as you do with none and that is just as bad a
>problem.

Let me into this little debate....I would like to simply point one thing in
the whole 
world generation issue...use the tables to spur your creativity. Once the
world is
generated, play with the stats until you like them. You're the GM for
crying out loud.
(or else you wouldn't be rolling these things up in the first place)

If you decide that the other stats on a planet make more sense for a planet
of a billion
pop, then its a billion. If you decide that it does not make sense for a
planet with an A
starport to have a TL of 8 when there are two other planets within 2
parsecs with TL 10 or
higher, then go ahead and change the stats. My rule of thumb when GMing any
system
is that 90% of everything should not require a far reaching explanation. 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:43:59 -0600
From: "Chris Miller" <ironstar@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: T4-Combat Questions

>
>I'll ask one...what is the oft-mentioned but never explained Rapid fire
bonus,
>and how does it work?
>
>Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)
>
I had the same question a few weeks ago and got the same vague
answers...then I found it:
Central Supply Catalog, Vehicle construction section (in the back)
pg 73 "Autofire" - summarized
- -  a Rapid fire (RF) weapon gets a +2 DM to autofire attacks, which mainly
helps offset range mods, and this classification corresponds to a ROF of
approximately 100 shots/turn
- - a VRF weapon gets a +4 Dm and figures in at about 200 shots/turn

FF&S2 mentions qualifying for these, it just doesn't explain what they do.
Now if we can just find a relevant explanation for the recoil number you
come up with...

This section of this supplement is one of the most useful sections in any of
the books so far. Notice in the main T4 rules that the combat section
referes to structural damage. Notice also that nowhere in that book (even in
the "vehicles" section) is there a stat for stucture, nor a
definition/formula on how to figure it. Guess where it is? Same section,
"Advanced Damage Chart" (and somewhere else too, I believe). Structure is
double the armor rating or "4", whichever is higher.

Of course this is all ignored in the "Emperor's Vehicles" wreck of a
book...which fails to list Tech Levels for all of the vehicles, structure
ratings, or weapons details for those vehicles which are armed. There's not
even a place for these items on their "vehicle form". Hard to believe that
didn't come up. My moderately hardware-oriented guys went nuts.

Hope this helps
Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:53:12 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Meson Screens

>Unless it's a really powerful meson screen.  Hmmmmm... I wonder how easy
>it is for ships to do coordinated simultaneous attacks against a fixed
>point inside a planetary body?  Would such attacks would confer any
>benefit against a meson screen? 

  Can't a subterranean emplacement still be eliminated by a larger
number of shots _around_ the screened area? The effect should still
propagate, either as a shockwave or as X-rays if the outer containment
is a vacuum...

------------------------------

Date: 25 Feb 1998 18:52 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Rob's Starport Economics (long)

I tried to keep it simple, but everyone knows where that
leads you...

Jim L's post, which did math on an E starport which ended up
with an absurdly large trade volume, made me think about a
simple, unrelated-to-other-systems rule of thumb to determine
trade volume between two worlds.

This is what Jon Buller and I came up with.

Starport	Volume
A		5
B		4
C		3
D		2
E		1
X		0

Population	Volume
9+		+2
6-8		+1
0-5		+0

TL		Volume
A+		+2
5-9		+1
0-4		+0

Feature		Volume
Naval Base	+2
Scout Base	+1	(is this necessary?)
XBoat Route	+1
Gas Giant	+2	(is this high?)
Interdicted	-3

So, this produces a value V from 0 to 15 for a world.

To find the traffic between two worlds:

	1. Calculate world values, V1 and V2.

	2. Subtract the distance D (in parsecs) between the worlds from
	   V1 and V2:

		Va = V1 - D
		Vb = V2 - D

	   If either value is less than 1, then there is no regular trade
	   between the worlds.

 	3. Index into the following table, using Va and Vb as row and
	   column indices:


Per week total freight factor traffic
       1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9   10   11   12   13   14   15 

 1:    1    1    1    1    1    2    2    2    2    2    2    2    2    2    2 
 2:    1    1    2    2    2    2    2    2    3    3    3    3    3    3    3 
 3:    1    2    2    2    2    3    3    3    3    3    3    4    4    4    4 
 4:    1    2    2    2    3    3    3    3    4    4    4    4    4    4    4 
 5:    1    2    2    3    3    3    4    4    4    4    4    4    5    5    5 
 6:    2    2    3    3    3    4    4    4    4    4    5    5    5    5    5 
 7:    2    2    3    3    4    4    4    4    5    5    5    5    5    5    6 
 8:    2    2    3    3    4    4    4    5    5    5    5    5    6    6    6 
 9:    2    3    3    4    4    4    5    5    5    5    6    6    6    6    6 
10:    2    3    3    4    4    4    5    5    5    6    6    6    6    6    7 
11:    2    3    3    4    4    5    5    5    6    6    6    6    6    7    7 
12:    2    3    4    4    4    5    5    5    6    6    6    6    7    7    7 
13:    2    3    4    4    5    5    5    6    6    6    6    7    7    7    7 
14:    2    3    4    4    5    5    5    6    6    6    7    7    7    7    8 
15:    2    3    4    4    5    5    6    6    6    7    7    7    7    8    8 


The indexed digit is similar to a population digit:
Digit	Passengers
1	10s
2	100s
3	1000s
4	10,000s
5	100,000s
6	millions
7	tens of millions
8	hundreds of millions

Freight is in tons, and generally is 4 x passenger count, though I'm
sure it can vary quite a bit.



To determine total weekly capacity for a starport, find all routes
within, say, 3 parsecs from the starport.  The strongest route will
pretty much be the determinant, though additional ones may adjust
the final numbers some.



Example 1:

Capacity for Treece, Spinward Marches:
								     * VOL *
Treece        2311 D232866-8    Na Po              610 Im M1 V		 4
Yori          2110 C360757-A    Ri De              713 Im F1 V		 6
Inthe         2410 B575776-9  A Ag                 423 Im F8 V		11
Keanou        2411 C792348-7  S Lo Ni              213 Im M3 III M2 D	 5
Echiste       2313 C53A313-A    Lo Ni Wa           720 Im G4 V		 4

All right, Inthe is only 1 parsec distant, so we automatically know that
the traffic is almost completely to and from there.  So I'm just doing
the calculations between Treece and Inthe:

V1 = 4, V2 = 11
Va = 4 - 1 = 3, Vb = 11 - 1 = 10

Cross-indexing 3 and 10 yields a 3: perhaps 1000 passengers per week
and 4000 tons per week between Inthe and Treece.


Example 2:

Capacity for Jae Tellona, Spinward Marches:
								     * VOL *
Jae Tellona   2814 A560565-8  N Ni De              913 Im F9 IV		11
Porozlo       2715 A867A74-B    Hi                 201 Im M1 V M9 D	11
Rhylanor      2716 A434934-F  A Hi Cp              810 Im M2 VI		12
Celepina      2913 B434456-9  A Ni                 201 Im M2 VI		11

Big trafficking going on here.  Porozlo is only 1 parsec away, which
means its trade system will probably dominate.

Jae Tellona <--> Porozlo:	10 & 10 = millions of pass. & freight
Jae Tellona <--> Rhylanor:      9  & 10 = 100,000s of pass. & freight
Jae Tellona <--> Celepina:	9  &  9 = 100,000s of pass. & freight

So, many times the population of Jae Tellona's mainworld is passing
through Jae Tellona's starport each week!  Ouch!

- ------------------------------------------------------------

Now, how would you divide cargo up between ships?  I guess I would
split it up from large lots down to small ones:

Liner/Freighter		Passenger Cap (low?)
...............         ....................
Massive			100,000
Huge			10,000		
Large			1000		
Medium (600t)		100	
Small (200t)		10	
Courier (100t)		1	

Method: assign the larger ships first, and when the remainder
	of the starport capacity soon will fall below capacity for 
	that class of ship, move to the next smaller ship size and
	work on the remainder, etc.

Example: the Rhylanor-Porozlo run, 1 parsec
								     * VOL *
Rhylanor      2716 A434934-F  A Hi Cp              810 Im M2 VI		12
Porozlo       2715 A867A74-B    Hi                 201 Im M1 V M9 D	11

Rhylanor <--> Porozlo = 11 & 10: millions of passengers & freight

Let's say 2,000,000 passengers and 8,000,000 tons of freight.

Transport	Pass	Freight
Massive x 18	1.8 M	7.2 M
Huge x 18	180,000 720,000
Large x 18	18,000	72,000
Medium x 18	1800	7200
Small x 18	180	720
Courier x 18	18	72

In such an even-distribution case, then, we have 100+ ships arriving
each week.

Class A groundports can handle 500+ ships 1000 tons or less, giving
us a weekly downport capacity of

500 ships x 60 passengers/ship = 30,000 passengers per week
500 ships x 240 t freight/ship = 120,000 tons freight per week

Class B groundports can handle 200+ ships 1000 tons or less, giving
us a weekly downport capacity of

200 ships x 60 passengers/ship = 12,000 passengers per week
200 ships x 240 t freight/ship = 48,000 tons freight per week


- --------------------------------------------------------------

Now, suppose you just want to know what's available for your little
sub-1000t ship for a year's worth of trade?  Well, here's the table
to index for that:

Per year freight factor available for 100t-900t ships
       1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9   10   11   12   13   14   15 

 1:    1    1    1    1    1    1    1    1    2    2    2    2    2    2    2 
 2:    1    1    1    1    2    2    2    2    2    2    2    2    2    3    3 
 3:    1    1    2    2    2    2    2    2    2    3    3    3    3    3    3 
 4:    1    1    2    2    2    2    3    3    3    3    3    3    3    3    3 
 5:    1    2    2    2    2    3    3    3    3    3    3    3    3    4    4 
 6:    1    2    2    2    3    3    3    3    3    3    3    4    4    4    4 
 7:    1    2    2    3    3    3    3    3    3    4    4    4    4    4    4 
 8:    1    2    2    3    3    3    3    3    4    4    4    4    4    4    4 
 9:    2    2    2    3    3    3    3    4    4    4    4    4    4    4    5 
10:    2    2    3    3    3    3    4    4    4    4    4    4    4    5    5 
11:    2    2    3    3    3    3    4    4    4    4    4    5    5    5    5 
12:    2    2    3    3    3    4    4    4    4    4    5    5    5    5    5 
13:    2    2    3    3    3    4    4    4    4    4    5    5    5    5    5 
14:    2    3    3    3    4    4    4    4    4    5    5    5    5    5    5 
15:    2    3    3    3    4    4    4    4    5    5    5    5    5    5    5 

Again, the indexed digit is the number of zeroes.  So if you were able
to trade for a year on the Porozlo-Rhylanor run, you would be able to
move between 10,000 and 99,000 passengers and run between 10,000 and
99,000 tons of cargo (maybe 15,000 passengers and 60,000 tons of goodies).


So send us your input, critique, questions, and improvements.
The primary consideration was ease of use (next to plausibility,
of course).  This is version 1.0.


Rob
eaglesto@nortel.ca

Jon
buller@nortel.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 22:49:30 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Glass Rod pictures

On 02/25/98 at 03:02 PM,  Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:

>>My God, first the Syleans co-opt Barbie, and now the Vilani want
>>credit for inventing the Lite Brite!

>I gather from your remark that someone has invented something similar, or
>even identical to, the glass rod pictures I made up. I didn't know that,
>but now that I do, all I can say is "So what? What does a mostly unknown
>toy on one planet have to do with a major sector-spanning artform else-
>where, even if they use the same medium?" However, if you give me the
>names of a few famous Lite Brite artists and tell me what museums they are
>displayed at, I'll amend the Library Data entry to mention that the art
>form was also known on pre-starflight Terra.

Hans seeing as the Vilani are a figment of our imaginations and "Lite
Brite" is a reality, although a quite passe reality, it does make a
difference.  ;-> The Solomani, at least, deserve recognition as independent
creators of the medium. Actually, I suspect Hasbro might *insist* on
recognition. ;->

As for famous "Lite Brite" artists, I'm sure we can make up a few names,
complete with titles of their works. ;->  In fact, a few children of the
70's that grew up with "Lite Brite" just might *eventually* produce a few
real works of art in the plastic (or glass) rod medium.  You never know.

Eris,
    brother of a budding Lite Brite artist who got detoured by life ;-> -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:51:42 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Tech advances?

Hello,
>considering the Collapse.  In a TL15 (borderline 16) Imperium, is that TL9
>world actually ignorant of where to go?  I don't think the TL system really
>makes sense, considering that the lack of "direction" on "where to go" is a
>big problem w/ r&d.  Alot of times it's just  that *hint* or nudge that can
>push u over the edge to a new discovery. 

  I tend to agree, but the background as written is the hand we've
been dealt. Also, the TL system is a lot of use when listing worlds
and trying to figure out the backwaters - most cyberpunk games (or
the 2300 approach) would force a GM to invent their own scale or do
write-ups for each world. The Trav TL is a labour-saving shorthand. 
...
>     In fact, I think that planets would probably fairly quickly rise to the
>Imperiums TL if their population and industry (resources and infrastructure)
>could support it. 

  Depends on whether the 3I has development assistance programs, or
if it considers such its' job or not. As for trade serving that same
purpose, we don't know. Economists have names for their schools of
thought, and not all of them believe (with some justification) that
trade will help economies that are too far behind their contemporaries.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:16:18 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
> 
> Jim Cooper wrote:
> > > I suppose ideally you want to integrate the En Guard rules for
> > > Social Level change into Traveller. (Being seen with the 'right'
> > > people, contributing to worthy causes, patronising the Arts ...
> > > in _addition_ to conspicous spending.) Also, there should be a
> > > difference between Social Level and Noble Title, even if the two
> > > factors are related (spending like a Duke will not get you a
> > > Duchy).
> > >
> > Nope. I'm not trying to integrate any rules changes to anything. I'm
> > only commenting on what others have written, and trying to imagine their
> > considered reasoning. On his points, I can both see where he is coming
> > from and I agree that that is probably what would happen or have to
> > happen before any change would come about. Do you feel that the change,
> > as he has decribed it, would come about faster in another way? If so, in
> > what way?
> 
> Actually, I'm coming at this from  another  direction:  it  _can_
> work as originally posted, but not always.
> 
> Consider the group of dirt poor belters  who  strike  the  mother
> lode.  They decide to retire and enjoy the good life ... they buy
> a mansion ... have installed a 10 meter  high  statue  of  Albert
> Eienstein urinating expensive mineral water into a pond  (on  the
> front lawn) ...  always  feed  dinner  guests  burger  and  fries
> (served by white gloved staff) ... keep the  ketchup  in  crystal
> decanters ("cos its class, init?") ... join the local  golf  club
> and always take a large keg of beer with them while they  try  to
> play (and yelling and laughing at the other patrons).  Somehow  I
> feel that even after a year of high spending they may  still  not
> get their quota of invites to the local Duke's social evenings.
> 
> Something else needs to happen in _addition_ to  spending  before
> social class will rise.  Its that 'something else'  that  I  feel
> has been missing from the rules.  Hense my original comment about
> En Guard.

The something else you speak of is, I believe, acceptance by the people
or class you are trying to impress. I also believe that was what was
intended by the author of the original post. If this is the case then we
all agree.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:29:43 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

SemoFetus@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >Something else needs to happen in _addition_ to  spending  before
> >social class will rise.  Its that 'something else'  that  I  feel
> >has been missing from the rules.  Hense my original comment about
> >En Guard.
> 
> It isn't all that difficult to be a good GM and be careful about giving out
> heaps of SOC for no reason.  In addition to this, there is actually an
> experience system in T4 (and T4.1).  I doubt that Marc instituted the
> "spending rule" so that every character could make big money and become dukes
> and such.
> 
> A GM shouldn't have to have detailed rules for _everything_.  That's why we
> call it _role_ playing, not roll playing.  SOC is a measure of ones social
> clout in Imperial society.  A great work of art (which there are rules for in
> Trav), and the networking involved to raise your SOC (the money spent on the
> right clothes, the right people, the right parties) could raise it, if you had
> the experience points to spend to do so.
> 
> And so on...  Besides, a statue of a urinating Einstein is class in my book!
> :^)
> 
> Semo
I wonder if everyone accepts that greatness is measured by how much one
spends. Again, I don't want to start a war here, but I wonder if, by
news reports anyway, the people of Iraq consider Sadam as a great person
and deserving of his SOCial status. He evidently is not *spending* any
of the money to to alleviate the suffering of the people, but I believe
he is *spending* on those who keep him in power. Princess Di was noted
for her humanitarian works, I believe, and not how much she spent,
although she probably contributed considerably to her causes.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:03:12 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Luriani

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 

> >I would think that such an inventive and resourceful culture would have
> >developed some method of domesticating forms of undersea animals and
> >agricultural development, even if it was only in the organization of say
> >an artistically beautiful coral reef display inviting tourism from other
> >islands (much like the area on the northern coast of Australia). This
> >might also have led to the piracy and warfare that developed, despite
> >what seems should be a fun loving, creative and carefree society. I
> >can't imagine what they had to fight about.
> 
> I envisioned them refining their hunting and gathering techniques into
> a form of ranching. So although the animals were not "domesticated" they
> were exploited a lot more efficently than might be expected. But I wanted
> to convey a dichotomy of culture that was both extremly primitive and

Ok. Then you have succeded.

> extremely sophisticated at the same time. However I do like your idea of
> art via domesticated animals; that would appeal to the Luriani.
> 
> As to warfare, well have you ever seen artists together :*>. The Luriani

Let's say I have been around a bunch of them when they were showing
their wares and backslapping each other. On some I agreed. Others,
well??? However, my SOC level was not up to snuff so I kept my thoughts
to my self.

> are a *very* emotional people; they take jealousy, greed, anger and
> passion to whole new levels. A critical debate as to the merits of the
> Impressionists as against the pre-Raphaelites amongst the Luriani could
> easily lead to bloodshead and full scale mobilisations.
> 
Yep, that is a probable result from what you describe, but as a visitor
to that place on the world, I would be looking for the first way out,
after checking the rest of the world for goodies. 

Jim

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #220
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 26 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 221



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: laser guided bombs <probably off-topic>
Nuclear dampers: alternative uses
re: En Garde for Traveller
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: WBH fun
Re: Glass Rod pictures
Re: En Garde for Traveller
Re: Comments on the T4.1 JOT Skill
Re: laser guided bombs <probably off-topic>
Re: Stealth Suits
World Generation : Computers? (was a trav digest #)
Re: Tech advances?
Re: Rob's Starport Economics (long)
RE:  Rob's Starport Economics  (TML No:220)
Re: Nuclear dampers: alternative uses
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit : Reply to comments
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:59:58 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: laser guided bombs <probably off-topic>

On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Mark Urbin wrote:
> Mikko types:
> ><sarcasm>
> >But, in the era of smart  bombs, the question is irrevelant. The almighty
> >U.S.A.F. can put the bomb through the ventilation shafts of the ammo dump,
> >the building next to it doesn't get a scratch.
> >Like in Iraq, with B-52s...
> ></sarcasm>
> 
>     To be honest, the B-52s, while capable of launching cruise missles,
> were not dropping smart bombs.  They were carpet bombing military targets.  

I should have put a smiley there. B-) I am just a bit angry at the media
fuss about "smart bombs" when most of the bombings were conducted using
B-52s and other dumb bombs.

I read an interesting article a few days ago, it said that about seven per
cent of bombs used in the Gulf War were smart... and about 95 per cent of
the news from the war adsvertised the samrt weapons..

Mikko Parviainen
- -- 
I modem, but they grew back.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:06:27 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Nuclear dampers: alternative uses

I was just thinking about nuclear dampers, and wondered just how safe 
they would be.  These things can screw around with both the strong and 
the weak nuclear force, that sounds like an excellent way to mess up 
someone's metabolism in a rather fatal way.  Does anyone have any ideas 
on whether this would work?

Also, could you use one to help mothball a ship (maybe strengthening 
everything a bit to help inhibit decay)?  It's been too long since 
college physics for me...

Comments?


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:03:01 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: En Garde for Traveller

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)

>A couple of digests ago someone mentioned something about En Garde for
>Traveller.
>
>Have you actually done such a conversion?  If so, I'd be _very_ interested
>in seeing it (and I bet I'm not the only one!).

Me Too! Me Too! ;-)

Dom (in silly mode) (but serious about the En Garde stuff)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:06:17 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:

>Yes, I guess there is precedent for that; I forgot about COACC.  Also, the
>fact that a sub-100 dt small craft can mount any turret is another example
>of this.
>
>That makes for a gruesome variant of the Valor class.  8-)

Have a look at the Pirana Class on my website (TL12, 115MCr, with a factor
9 missile bay).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:12:38 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: WBH fun

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote

> I was fooling around with an old WBH spreadsheet -- looking for a good
> vacation planet for the Sayat, or something -- and was given the following
> "local custom":
> 
>         Siesta required for convicted criminals.
> 
> Isn't this the coolest?

This planet has a thin atmospere and a slow rotation.  Therefore it gets
_really_ hot at midday.  It was the custom on this planet for citizens
to go home at midday for a long lunch.  However the local criminal
element used this opportunity to commit lots of burgluaries of unguardrd
businesses.  The people of this world decided that they could not allow
their criminals to be wandering around loose unsuperviesd during the
midday period.  They decided that if all their convicted criminals were
home sleeping they could not be committing crimes & so this custom
developed. (I know that a siesta does not axiomatically require sleep,
but sleep ins the popular American conception of a siesta, so this is
what I suggest.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 03:25:03 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: Glass Rod pictures

> From:          eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
> Date:          Wed, 25 Feb 98 22:49:30 -0600
> 
> Hans seeing as the Vilani are a figment of our imaginations and "Lite
> Brite" is a reality, although a quite passe reality, it does make a
> difference.  ;-> The Solomani, at least, deserve recognition as independent
> creators of the medium. Actually, I suspect Hasbro might *insist* on
> recognition. ;->

Ah, so we see the truth behind the First Intersteller War: the Vilani 
tried to enforce their patent laws ("We don't care how you got it.  
Makhidkarun developed it 6000 years ago, and it belongs to them, plus 
whatever improvements you've made, plus a fine for tinkering with 
their property.").  Hasbro, of course, could not take that lying 
down.


- --
Edward Swatschek - edjs@mindlink.net

The only truly "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that,
it's all learned. (Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org, in
comp.os.linux.misc, on X interfaces.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:11:14 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: En Garde for Traveller

Semo said:
> A GM shouldn't have to have detailed rules for _everything_. That's why we
> call it _role_ playing, not roll playing. SOC is a measure of ones social
> clout in Imperial society. A great work of art (which there are rules for in
> Trav), and the networking involved to raise your SOC (the money spent on the
> right clothes, the right people, the right parties) could raise it, if you had
> the experience points to spend to do so.

I parially agree with you.  As a GM  I  run  a  very  rules  lite
campaign and try to focus the players  as  much  as  possible  on
_role_ playing.  (Once, during a murder investigation, my players
verbally interrogated an NPC for 3 hours real time ...  remaining
in character the whole time.  Playing that NPC  was  one  of  the
most satisfying ... and most stressful  ...  tasks  I've  had  to
perform as a GM.)  But between sessions I study up on the  rules.
Not so that I can use them  strictly  in  play,  but  so  that  I
understand how and why things work, the relationships, etc.  Then
(hopefully) I can improvise more plausably.

However ...

Rob Prior said:
> A couple of digests ago someone mentioned something about En Garde for
> Traveller.
>
> Have you actually done such a conversion? If so, I'd be _very_ interested
> in seeing it (and I bet I'm not the only one!).

Not really.  I keep looking at En  Guarde  (and  an  expanded  En
Guarde PBM rule book) and thinking it would  be  neat  to  do  an
Imperial Court campaign at the time of Strephon's  assassination.
I would like to do it soon, but would like to see "Nobles" first.
(Has "Nobles" started shipping yet?)



Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen
"Seeing as I'm right and you disagree, you must be wrong."
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:10:52 EST
From: Mriftin@aol.com
Subject: Re: Comments on the T4.1 JOT Skill

I personally think that JOT should be a career choice and not a skill, it
makes more sense that way...like Bards in D&D. Anyway, that's my 2 cents
worth...


                                         

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:43:10 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: laser guided bombs <probably off-topic>

On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:

> I read an interesting article a few days ago, it said that about seven per
> cent of bombs used in the Gulf War were smart... and about 95 per cent of
> the news from the war adsvertised the samrt weapons..

Well, considering the controls on the press during the Gulf war, it's not
surprising that the news coverage turned out like it did.

However, much of the coverage of the bombing was also concentrated on the
effects of the bombing on the interior of Iraq, like Bagdhad where a much
higher percentage of the 'smart' bombs were used. IIRC the B52's were used
to blow large holes in the sand where the Iraqi troops were. Since there
wasn't nifty gun camera footage of a scared trucker escaping off the
bridge, and no one in their right mind gets close enough to a heavy-duty
B52 carpet bombing using HE and FAE's to film it and live, and the press
wasn't allowed near the front anyway, there wasn't much _to_ cover.

Also, those  kinds of missions are perfectly well handled by 'dumb' bombs.

Besides, much of that coverage was designed to reassure the taxpayers that
they were indeed getting their money's worth from the huge Reagan-era
defense budgets..."See...all the really expensive stuff worked!" 

Far more troublesome were the outright lies regaring the efficacy of many
of the weapons systems used in the war. To reiterate one of the more well
known ones, those amazing Patriots may not have actually shot down more
than one or two SCUDs, if any at all. Much of the evidence indicates that
the SCUDs were doing a pretty good job of falling apart all on their own
and that the patriots were simply a showier way of lighting up the sky
than all the ineffective flak over Bagdhad.

In retrospect, not surprising at all for a weapons system that was
designed to be an anti-aircraft weapon, not an anti-ballistic missile
defense. 

Also, remember, much of the press coverage of the war was manipulated to
the strategic and tactical ends of the Allied commanders.

obTrav: How much control will Imperial forces have over press coverage of
their battlefields? How often will 'news' sources in the very 19th century
Imperialist 3I be mouthpieces for the powers that be? Look at the role of
newspapers in many events in the late 19th-early 20th Century. Take the
Spanish-American war...as much of the impetus for the war was stirred up
by Hearst's newspapers as by any politician

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:06:30 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Stealth Suits

Walter Smith;
>Charcoal liners. Chem filters. Acoustic dampeners. Chameleon coatings.
>
>About as much fun to role-play as running a typewriter.
>
>Our group liked to defeat security systems the old-fashioned way. The best
>>sensor is, eventually, controlled by a Mk I human with a Mk I brain.
>Whether >we're talking the security guard at the monitors, the tech whiz
>who built the >system, or the Imperial G
>overnor with authority over the installation, at some level there is a
>person >involved.
>
>And if you're good enough, and can identify him, this person can be
>overcome. >Bribed, conned, cajoled, replaced, whatever. The highest tech
>security system >in the world is useless if the owner hands you the keys.

Yes Yes Yes!  All this stealth stuff is just intended to be background.  If
the place is for-real in terms of security it will take some role
playing/plot development to get into, not some fancy technology. Not that
fancy tech will hurt either (usually).

And if characters have the perfect defense against ultrasonic radar in
their aresenal of techno-tricks, they won't encounter another such radar
until their suit is in the shop anyway, right?

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
 Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- -Hamlet, Act 1 Scene 5

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:20:33 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: World Generation : Computers? (was a trav digest #)

Jim L Said;
>Pete Said;
>>Now, I'm not saying there should not be gearhead supplements.  But the
>>basic rulebook should go to great lengths to *oversimplify* die rolling
>>conventions used.
[snip]
>Let me into this little debate....I would like to simply point one thing in
>the whole
>world generation issue...use the tables to spur your creativity. Once the
>world is
>generated, play with the stats until you like them. You're the GM for
>crying out loud.
[snip]

You make a good point, the stats/rolls are for guidance, not for 100%
definition.  However, you can bet that soon after there are new generation
rules out there, there will also be a computer program made to generate
hundreds of worlds using those rules.

Hmmm, that seems to advocate the opposite of what I was saying above.  With
a computer  program to do this stuff the tendancy should probably move
towards more complicated and more playable planetary stats than those in
CT.  Personally, I have never generated a single planet by hand rolling D6s
in 15 years of traveller.  I have generated my own planets, but using some
piece of software, not my poor tired fingers, and always a sector or
subsector at a time.

Regardless of these thoughts, we are going to get (If my Millermeter is
reading correctly) a CT-like system for world generation.  That means D6s
(maybe d3s), and I still advocate keeping complex formulas (anything more
complex than 2d6-2) out of the T4.1 basic rulebook.

As long as we are on the subject.  If there were a new version of "Scouts"
anytime in the future, it would be much more convenient if the system
produced planetary temperatures that weren't either frozen iceballs or
steaming hothouses.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:28:53 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Tech advances?

>  I don't think the TL system really makes sense

I disagree, I think the traveller TL variation between worlds is 
belevable.  Just look at the TL variation on our own world - often 
within countries.

It is only 10 or so years ago that my Walkman and compact 35mm 
camera caused a stir in rural Portugal - I was visiting a friend who 
teaches English there.  The people in the big city were used to 
tourists, and many owned similar high-tech toys, but 2 hours away by 
bus and the world was 50 years younger :-)

Look at the TL drop in Iran (IMO) since trade with the high TL west 
dropped of following the revolution.

Look at the TL in the foothills of Mount Everest - these people see 
more film crews, helicopters and high-tech climbing gear than almost 
anyone else, yet they use traditional (TL 3? TL 4?) methods for their 
farming, shoe repair, climbing and so on.


Where the traveller TL system does not fit my view is the relationship 
between capabilities and inventions.  In the Third Imperium, 
particularly 1100, there will be low-tech worlds that have cellular 
radios - as Leonard Erickson pointed out while correcting me:

> Anyplace that gets visited regularly by ships *will* have radios or 
> satellite phone equivalents. *Especially* when folks are several 
> days travel apart.

The official TL progression moves through the years very quickly in the 
middle (and this is also reflected in Pocket Empires in the time taken 
to move up a TL) - but this reflects (IMO) a period of great 
inventiveness as the number of scientists grew, as R&D was able to / 
forced to investigate new areas, as people got better overall 
education.  As others have mentioned on several occasions, the 
traveller TL tree can be seen more as "invention" driven, rather than 
"capability" driven.

When Traveller was first written, before any background informtion was 
published, it seemed reasonable to have an "invention" based TL tree - 
each world would develop in relative isolation, and someone had to 
invent the wheel on each world.  In the 3I, where inventions are more 
often a matter of historical knowledge, the TL can be used to measure 
how technologically capable a society is - but the TL tables do not 
reflect this.

An example: Greg Porter (of 3G3 fame) has argued that Imerial Rome had 
the science to build sub-machine guns - if someone went and explained 
the correct metals to use, mercury percussion caps to ignite cordite to 
set off gunpower in brass bullet casings and so on ... their chemistry 
was good enough to make all the individual items in the cartidge, 
their metalworking was good enough for the bullet and (probably) the 
gun, with just a few new techniques for making gun metal.  So, what TL 
should a machine gun be?

As you move up the TL tree, the required infrastructure gets greater to 
make things (modern micro-chips and their billion-dollar fabs), and TL 
could therefore be a measure of how much of this infrastructure you 
have on a given world.  Unfortunately, that simple model fails when you 
look at small high tech communities (belters, colonies, research 
station gamma, etc).

All of this boils down to the fact that TL means different things to 
different worlds (and to different referees).  Some of us like to have 
big differences between the major races (genetics for the Rule of Man, 
Imperial missile tech vs terran beam weapons, hiver computers, and so 
on).  Many people seem to argue that after a few 1000 years of space 
faring everyone will have "agreed" that only meson guns and particle 
beams make sense as spinal weapons and that fighters are useless 
against capital ships.  World history makes me doubt this.  I think 
that racial pride, the inertia of tradition and many other factors will 
add greater diversity to the tech used by the major races and by 
individual planets within each empire.

I'll stop for now, as i'll soon start ranting about IMTU.


 
Simon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:28:51 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Rob's Starport Economics (long)

An excellent suggestion for starport economics and very useful for 
those who, like me, are gear heads.  I can see how this sort of 
calculation could be added to Galactic 3.0 and similar programs.

I have not had time yet to analyse the earlier suggestions (including 
my own) and compare them with the trade levels implied in Pocket 
Empires.  As the Pocket Empires system gives diminising returns for 
ever-larger trading empires, it fits passably well (in concept) with 
you own rules.  Your rules have the huge advantage of letting me find 
the trade volumes between any pair of worlds ... a nice "background 
flavour" feature that I always wanted to have available at my 
fingertips.

In pocket empires, the quality of trading partners has no effect on the 
GNP boost your own starport gives you, which is fine for such a "grand 
scale" game ... I just hope that the calculations show that there is a 
rouugh correlation between all these methods of estimating trade / 
merchant fleet size / starport berths etc.

One day, with just me, a pile of paper and a calculator, I'll have a 
go.


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:22:46 -0700
From: Eric Holmes <holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov>
Subject: RE:  Rob's Starport Economics  (TML No:220)

Robert Eaglestone:

Great job on the Starport Economics.  Some comments.

1)  I think the values used for the volume of trade and passengers should
represent an annual capacity rather than a weekly capacity.  As an Aviation
Safety Engineer and a member of AAAE, we view the capacity of an airport as
annual capacity, and use this value to determine economic value etc. in the
community.  Yes, as you have calculated, the "population" of a community can
transit through a starport (airport) several times over in a year.

2)  I think you should use the values you index as "passenger values" rather
than freight and divide your total passengers by a factor of fifty to get
your cargo carried in annual tonnes, rather than cargo being 4x the
passenger value.  Economic cargo capacity is usually a lot lower number when
compared to passenger capacity.  I am not taking into account the handling
of baggage or mail in that cargo.

3)  I would delete the "Gas Giant" modifier and increase the "XBoat"
modifier to  "+2".  I would also add in a TL modifier for "TL D+  @  +3".  I
don't see a gas giant as having great impact on trade, yet higher TL would
be more of a reason to trade with a world.

Thanks for a good read.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:16:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Nuclear dampers: alternative uses

In mail you write:

> I was just thinking about nuclear dampers, and wondered just how safe 
> they would be.  These things can screw around with both the strong and 
> the weak nuclear force, that sounds like an excellent way to mess up 
> someone's metabolism in a rather fatal way.  Does anyone have any ideas 
> on whether this would work?

Metabolism of all known races relies on electromagnetic interchanges
(aka chemical reactions). Manipulation of strong or weak forces will
have no effect on these. The manipulations *may* cause energy releases
or particle radiation due to forced decay of isotopes, or transmutation
of elements. Those will adversely effect life forms.

> Also, could you use one to help mothball a ship (maybe strengthening 
> everything a bit to help inhibit decay)?  It's been too long since 
> college physics for me...

Stong and weak force only apply *inside* the nucleues. So they aren't
going to affect any kind of decay except radiactive.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:35:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit : Reply to comments

In mail you write:

>>>>On the plus side, this will make it an excellent CBN garment, as the
>>>>molecules involved in chemical and biological warfare wiull be too big
>>>>to get thru to the wearer. And it'd also stop most radioactivfallout
>>>>and the like from getting thru. It won't help against actual radiation
>>>>though.
>>>
>>> Since the outfit is optimized for a completely different purpose, I would
>>> not allow this interpretation by my players.
>>
>>I was giving that as a "natural" ability for a suit that *didin't*
>>allow chemicals (ie "odors") to escape.
>
> Permeability to the moisture of sweat and breath in one direction seems to
> me to imply permeability in the other direction too.  Since the equipment
> is optimized nad designed to prevent particulate and chemical matter from
> getting out, all the filters are "pointed" the wrong way.  Perhaps another
> item could be designed with this feature, but I do not think this item
> would be.  Its just a matter of designed purpose and the complication of
> protecting against CBN materials.

The filters don't "point". They merely screen out *large molecules (see
one of my other posts for more details on this)

> [snip]
>>>>So even given "magic" technology, you have several ways the wearer can
>>>>be detected:
>>>>
>>>>1. oxygen consumption (difficult, even at high tech levels)
>>
>>I just realized an *easy* way to do this. Not suitable for "home" use,
>>but quite possible for industrial and government security.
> [snip Nitrogen Filled Room trap]
>
> Well, they would only get one chance.  I wouldn't want *my* office filled
> with nitrogen all night.  But it is an interesting idea.

It's already used on a small scale. They fill cables and conduits, and
if you cut the outer casing to get at the wires, the pressure drop sets
off alarms.

And as I noted, it's more appropriate for a *storage* facilitiy.
Strangely, players seem to want to steall from such facilities. Funyy
how that works out. :-)

>>>>3. thermal signature.
>>> See above.  I feel (still) that this is a vulnerability not addressed by
>>> the suit.
>>
>>Good. You've got some sense!
>
> No need to be condescending here.

I wasn't being condescending. I find that there are a lot of refs who
*don't* have sense on that sort of topic.

> [snip]
>>Actually, unless you go with the activated charcoal liner trick, it
>>won't work against a TL9(?) "mechanical sniffer" that merely catalogs
>>"trace molecules". And a few TLs later, that won't work.
>
> Use whatever handwave you wish, I'm sure there are many ways to approach
> the problem at TL8, never mind TL14.  Also, detecting molecules of odor is
> not the same as being able to identify someone, which was my point.

Well, it's like fingerprints or hair samples or any of a dozen of other
things. detecting the presence of a given molecule won't id you. But
get several types IDed along with the ratios between them, and you've
got the equivalent of a multi-point fingerprint match.

>>>>Frankly, if you are trying to spy, rather than break in to steal some
>>>>object, you'd be much better off with micro-drones.
>>>
>>> There are times when there is no substitute for human eyes and ears, and
>>> some times when there is a need to enter and remove something.
>>
>>The "drones" are basicly remote controlled cameras and microphones. So
>>you *have* human eyes and ears.
>
> Come now, you know what I mean.  As you say below.
>
> Cameras and drones can't (usually) open drawers and cabinets, remove or
> insert storage crystals, hotwire locked door entry systems, or be player
> characters (all these things should say "usually").

Sometimes they don't *need to do those things. Why pick they lock on
the file cabinet if you are small enough to walk through the crack
around the drawer? :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:49:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

In mail you write:

> Rob Prior wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Walt Smith writes:
>>Here's an idea - a high population world that's mostly urbanized. It
>>would probably have underground transit tubes, some designed to carry
>>heavy freight modules. Build a couple of hundred (or thousand) meson
>>gunmodules, have them cycling around the transportation system so the
>>baddies won't know where they are.
>
> Hereby turning the entire transportation infrastructure into a legitimate
> military target. Suppose it would work if you're expecting total war...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> You already did that when you dispersed meson site sensors all over the 
> planet.

I dunno. I don't think that the presence of forward observers in a city
necessarily make the city a target. Anybody know for sure if unarmed
spotters, especially civilian ones, convert their surroundings into a
legit target?

It gets even messier when you realize that the sensors may have
perfectly legit *civilian* uses, things like traffic control. So if
they merely "broadcast" their reading over the data grid, are they
actually acting as spotters?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:29:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

In mail you write:

> Moin Leonard Erickson,
>
>> The chameleon coating changes the *surface color* of the suit to match
>> the "background", and, like a chameleon, this loses out where you are
>> up against a wall and someone looks *along* the wall. You are only
>> "invisible" in certain directions.
>
>         not with holographic cameleon skin, ok this would need extrem
>         computing power, but you have it with holographic (tl13+) computers.

Sorry, but holograms *don't* work that way. And the "chameleon suits"
were explicitly described as changing the color of the surface. 

With holograms, you wind up with a different, but similar type of
problem. A hologram is essentially a *window* into a scene. Thus it too
is directionally limited. Also, holograms *don't* give true 3-d. Sure,
if you move to the left, you can now see something that was behind a
"closer" object. Try doing that by moving *up* to look *over* the
object. You may get a surprise.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:54:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

In mail you write:

> On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:59:23 -0700 (MST), Merrick Burkhardt wrote:
>
>> > But then this same tactic would make missiles literally obsolete, since
>> > their sensors would have to be exposed to laserfire as well.  Hmmmm...
>>  
>> They are ;-) That is why missiles are so easy to kill. Regardless of
>> how much you might want to armor a missile, its sensors can't be,
>> and need to be pointed right at the target.  That is why det-lasers
>> make sense since they try to detonate at a range far enough out that
>> they haven't been hit yet.
>
> Oops!  I just thought of something (after re-reading my previous post).
> This would only apply to self-seeking missiles.  Missiles steered via the
> mothership would communicate via a laser and a sensor mounted in the tail
> of said missile (thereby putting the sensor out of range of enemy fire).
> Of course, with the delay in communication over the beam, the target may
> not be where you think it is by the time the missile receives the "turn
> left 0.2 degrees" command...

Which is why you just tell the missile your best data on the course,
speed, and likely future maneuvers so that it can figure the course
change on it's own.

Heck, you can do that by encrypted "broadcast" and ;let the missiles
decide what the best target is. This lets you use cheap *radio*.

> Computer, aboard a starship missing all of its EMS sensor arrays:
>
>    "There is a large 1.17 Gee gravity source 5 degrees of the port bow.  Do
>      you wish to alter course?"

It'd be reporting the *mass* as well as an estimated range.

> Navigator:
>
>     "&%^@!, yes!!"

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #221
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 26 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 222



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Meson Screens
Re: Mass Detectors
Ship design (retro style)
High-Traffic Surface-Orbit Shuttle Service
Re: En Garde for Traveller
High-Traffic Shuttle Ports
Planetary Meson Guns
Re: laser guided bombs <probably off-topic>
Re: Ship design (retro style)
Re [2]: En Garde for Traveller
Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?
Re: Comments on the T4.1 JOT Skill
Re: World Generation Modifications
Cold-starts...
Re: Escort Tonnage

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:10:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Meson Screens

In mail you write:

>>Unless it's a really powerful meson screen.  Hmmmmm... I wonder how easy
>>it is for ships to do coordinated simultaneous attacks against a fixed
>>point inside a planetary body?  Would such attacks would confer any
>>benefit against a meson screen? 
>
>   Can't a subterranean emplacement still be eliminated by a larger
> number of shots _around_ the screened area? The effect should still
> propagate, either as a shockwave or as X-rays if the outer containment
> is a vacuum...

Sure, but if I'm sitting in solid rock, I'd want the meson screen a few
hundred meters *out* from the installation. That way I still have to
deal with shock waves, but any radiation has to get thru more than a
hundred meters of rock (not gonna happen!).

The rock surrounding the installation might melt. That's why I figure
that subterrenes will be built. Being built to operate in molten rock
*already*, all the extra energy will do is make the rock easier to move
through. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:59:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mass Detectors

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Nope. Mass detectors detect exactly that. They are inherently 3d. Just
> like using a compass on a steel ship, you "calbrate" the sensor after
> installation so as to compensate for the "fixed" mass of the ship. 
>
> Cargo and supplies will be added to the database as they are loaded.
> And this is where many a smuggler/stoaway gets caught. The manifest
> entry says the module is one thing, but the detector says that the mass
> or density (mass distribution) is wrong. At which point the module gets
> checked out *very* carefully. 
>
> Crew moving around requires active compensation but is still doable. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> This gives every ship with mass detectors 100% accurate internal 
> sensors...something to keep in mind when writing "Intruder on Board" style 
> scenarios.

Not 100%. People are rather low density, thus not the strongest signal
around. On the other hand, it *does* mean that they'll notice that
*somebody* is moving around in the cargo hold when no one is expected
to be there. It's not much worse than having motion sensors all over,
just more accurate and harder to spoof.

> I'm imagining a warship straining with every passive sensor to detect
> a hostile craft. The crew doesn't move, doesn't dare breathe, so the
> mass detectors can use all their computing power looking for the bad
> guy instead of compensating for the crew movements...would kind of
> give you the tense feeling like those old WWII movies, with the
> submarine crew holding their breath as the enemy destroyer comes
> closer...

Yeah. Since the inverse square law *does* apply, that means that a
crewman at 1 meter gives off a signal as strong as a million ton object
considerably farther away. Luckily, since they'll be *between* the
elements of the detector, it's a lot more practical to screen out the
crew. :-)

Tracking stuff inboard is probably enough of a pain that they'd pretty
much use it just for cargo checks, and as an alarm to indicate when
there are people where *no one* is supposed to be. Noticing that there
are 7 people in engineering and there should only be 6 is not going to
happen unless they start *looking* for anomalies.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:09:52 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Ship design (retro style)

In CT/HG you could add extra jump capacitors  for  storing  black
globe  absorbed  energies.   There  was  also   a   formula   for
calculating  how  many  capacitors  there  were  in  a   standard
configuration jump drive.  Maybe I'm going blind but I can't  see
a similar rule in MT.  Does anyone know the MT stats for  j-drive
capacitors?

FYI: In CT/HG I had an experimental 1000 ton jump-capable cruiser
sporting a meson gun bay.  To meet the high  energy  requirements
of the weapon it used a bank of jump-capacitors and fired only on
alternate turns, thus effectively halving the weapon's "per turn"
energy requirement.  (I've seen arguments before saying you can't
use j-drive capacitor  energy  to  power  ship  systems  ...  the
opinion seemed to be that the capacitors discharged in a  perfect
reproduction of their charging and  thus  the  power  signal  was
'dirty'.  But if they are charged directly off  the  power  plant
then this problem is sidestepped.)  Has anyone  else  tried  this
design approach?



Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen
"I am not a gearhead."
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 1998 11:13 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: High-Traffic Surface-Orbit Shuttle Service

037-1011

Nathler took a speeder to the starport.  He was early for the
arrival of his third 600t liner (purchased with cash, not
financed), and he was excited.  His business had found the most
unlikely but lucrative niche in the huge trade business between
Rhylanor and Porozlo, and he was now richer than the ancient 
Solomani god-man Byll Gaites.

This groundport covered 100+ square kilometers, and was busy
night and day.  There were 48 public parkbays, serving over
500 ships per week.  In addition, there was the shuttle service
parkbay, which every hour brought thousands of people down to
the surface and took another batch up to the orbital base.

The groundport bustled with activity, even at this time of the
morning.  Nathler's speeder cab took him though the outer gates
into Startown, past the inner gates into the shipyards, where
warehouses, construction yards and repair docks were stacked
in efficient (if messy) sections, like piles of toy blocks.
The speeder stopped inside the inner gates, and security checked
him and sent the speeder away.  Nathler showed his GravPass
to the parkbay passenger magrail system datanet, and took a seat 
in the closest car.

Nathler's last liner was constructed on Porozlo, due to trade
agreements, contracts, and administrative red tape.  He wanted
to be there when it set down in Rhylanor after its shakedown.
As of late, Nathler hadn't spent much time on the business,
leaving it in the capable hands of his well-educated staff.
However, this was a big occasion, and he went out of his way
on big occasions.

After a short wait, there she was.  The clean, new 600t liner
sailed down on never-before-used glide wings onto the northern
landing strip, a 5-kilometer long stretch of paved, packed, 
reinforced road.  At the end of the strip, she was turned by
a surface grav tug and lifted onto the parkbay ship magrail 
system, where she would be pigeonholed in a berth somewhere in the
parkbay system -- hopefully on one of the northern bays.

Nathler gave the datanet his ship identification, and in a moment
the car swung about the magrail, stopping occasionally to let
others on or off.  Soon he would see his ship eye to eye.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------

Large shuttles are needed on high capacity ground starports...
Groundports which see 1,000,000 passegners per week (perhaps half
of the orbital port's traffic) must handle 143,000 passenger 
arrival+departures per day, 70,000 passengers each way -- about 
3000 passengers per trip per hour.  

If one assumes a peak time of 5000 passengers, and if one also 
assumes the fleet should have a total capacity of ~10,000  
passengers, one needs, say:

	10 700-passenger shuttles	7000 passengers 
	36 70-passenger shuttles	2520 passengers
	11 7-passenger shuttles		  77 passengers

So one has a fleet of 57 shuttles, capable of a glide landing, and 
having their own set of 6 parkbays (for a total of 66 ground berths).

- ----------------------------------------

High-Traffic Surface-Orbit Shuttle (TL12)

Length: 90m
			vol	pow	cost	crew
Needle Airframe	1000t	931	 -272	 46	 -
TL12  Thrust Plates 5G	-90	-1260 	315	1.9
TL12 Avionics (civ)	 -2	   -1	  9	 -
TL12 Sensors (basic)	  -	  -13	  7	0.4   A1P3J0
TL12 Comm (basic)	  -	   -1     -	0.4
no weapons
no defenses
no purification plant
Sickbay			 -8	   -1	  5
TL12 Power Plant	-71	 2000	200	2.0

Crew: 	4 engineers with workstations
	1 electronician with workstation
	1 pilot with workstation
	1 medic
	30 stewards

	6 workstations	 -3

Crew Quarters:
	36 bunks	-36

Passenger Quarters:
	25 large SR    -100		 2.5
	50 small SR    -100		 2.0
	500 'bunks'    -500  		 2.5
	10 e.l.b.	-20		 1.0
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
		          1     +452  MCr590


A passenger 'bunk' is total space for seating + baggage in steerage.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:57:46 EST
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: En Garde for Traveller

>I parially agree with you.  As a GM  I  run  a  very  rules  lite
>campaign and try to focus the players  as  much  as  possible  on
>_role_ playing.  (Once, during a murder investigation, my players
>verbally interrogated an NPC for 3 hours real time ...  remaining
>in character the whole time.  Playing that NPC  was  one  of  the
>most satisfying ... and most stressful  ...  tasks  I've  had  to
>perform as a GM.)  But between sessions I study up on the  rules.
>Not so that I can use them  strictly  in  play,  but  so  that  I
>understand how and why things work, the relationships, etc.  Then
>(hopefully) I can improvise more plausably.

The relationships between the nobles and such is one thing, but I for one, am
very much against the whole 'spending money to gain SOC' thing.  It's alot
more than that in our world.

A number of different things could raise (or lower) one's SOC, and then to
further hypothesize that SOC is a measure of one's standing in Imperial
society, and realizing that the Imperial ethic is based on responsibility and
honor...  It doesn't seem like money alone should cut it.

Things that could raise SOC:
- - coming up with a breakthrough in a discipline
- - creating a great work of art (or funding and 'producing' that work of art)
- - creating a hit or great piece of music (or funding it)
- - making a lot of money in a certain field

These things are just a small sampling of some of the 'SOC-raisers' other than
money.  There are others too, being a crime boss is one example, marrying into
a family and becoming accepted into a higher SOC is another.  (The character
with the highest SOC in my campaign is a criminal, born and bred.)

I'd rather not complicate the SOC system (at least in my campaign) by adding a
thousand new elements to it.  I think that, when all is said and done, if the
characters want to attempt a hike in SOC, that the GM should have the final
say, and not the rule book.

"What do you mean I can't raise my SOC by spending Cr250*SOC to gain a level?
It says so right here in the book!"

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:02:56 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: High-Traffic Shuttle Ports

Robert Eaglestone wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If one assumes a peak time of 5000 passengers, and if one also 
assumes the fleet should have a total capacity of ~10,000  
passengers, one needs, say:

	10 700-passenger shuttles	7000 passengers 
	36 70-passenger shuttles	2520 passengers
	11 7-passenger shuttles		  77 passengers

So one has a fleet of 57 shuttles, capable of a glide landing, and 
having their own set of 6 parkbays (for a total of 66 ground berths).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

These are quite a few berths, but will seem less when they are scattered all
over the planet. Tourist resorts, commercial centers, commuter transit network
hubs - in short, the places that generate this traffic flow in the first
place - will have subsidiary starport facilities.

CT Traveller Book 6?: Scouts mentions Spaceports as well as Starports, and CT
Traders & Gunboats mentions that the launch on the Sub Merchant often call for
passengers on hotel landing pads, bypassing the Starport all together.

While Columbia may get by with only one International Airport, the United
States needs a couple dozen - I think Starports will be the same way.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:14:26 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Planetary Meson Guns

Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Anybody know for sure if unarmed
spotters, especially civilian ones, convert their surroundings into a
legit target?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The guy whose head you're calling arty onto will definitely class you as a target...and depending on the circumstances, you could even be executed as a spy (military activities of a covert nature while passing oneself off as a civilian).

A FO post is a legit target, whether or not they are armed is irrelevant.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:37:30 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: laser guided bombs <probably off-topic>

On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:
> I should have put a smiley there. B-) I am just a bit angry at the media
> fuss about "smart bombs" when most of the bombings were conducted using
> B-52s and other dumb bombs.
 
To be fair, smart bombs are a lot more interesting and the military was
being a bit deceptive about the effectiveness and use of smart bombs.
Personally, I don't have a problem with that... the enemy was watching
the news, too...

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:19:29 -0600 ()
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Ship design (retro style)

>In CT/HG you could add extra jump capacitors  for  storing  black
>globe  absorbed  energies.   There  was  also   a   formula   for
>calculating  how  many  capacitors  there  were  in  a   standard
>configuration jump drive.  Maybe I'm going blind but I can't  see
>a similar rule in MT.  Does anyone know the MT stats for  j-drive
>capacitors?

I don't have my book with me, but I think this is listed in the Referee's
Guide in the Starship Combat section, under the subheading Black Globes. I
do recall that one CT energy point is 250 Mw, though, and that the values
from the MT vehicle construction system are derived from the CT percentages
pretty directly. For example, a j6 drive is something like 7 percent a
ship's displacement in CT. In MT, a jump unit requires 13.5 kl in MT (which
happens to be 1 percent a 100 ton ship's 1350 kl volume) and it takes 7
jump units to get j6 -- thus, 7 percent, as in CT.

>FYI ... [chop]

I thought you *could* power systems off of absorbed energy, according to
the rules.

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:27:04 -0000
From: David Elrick <David.Elrick@ps.co.uk>
Subject: Re [2]: En Garde for Traveller

> Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
> 
> >A couple of digests ago someone mentioned something about En Garde for
> >Traveller.
> >
> >Have you actually done such a conversion?  If so, I'd be _very_ interested
> >in seeing it (and I bet I'm not the only one!).
> 
> Me Too! Me Too! ;-)

I started converting En Garde when I was writing the political stuff for
the M:0 book but I put it aside because I didn't have time to do it and
eveything else I was writing justice - of course, if I'd known they
wouldn't want the Vargr stuff, I could have finished it.

I have to go visit the outlaws (er... in-laws) this weekend, but I'll
dig through my notes next week and see if I still have it.

There was also an article in an early Challenge (around issue 33 or so,
I think) where the characters were students in a military academy, which
had rules for this sort of thing. It might be easier to convert that, as
it already uses Traveller rules.

Dave Elrick

David.Elrick@ps.co.uk

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------
Heigh-ho, heigh-ho, it's off to the game we go -
With bullets and blades and hand grenades.
Heigh-ho, heigh-ho, heigh-ho.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:15:24 -0800
From: jfpinder <jfpinder@gte.net>
Subject: Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?

Hello all,

I'm new to Traveller, and the mailing list, and my first question is
about Traveller Fusion Powerplants.

Why would they ever need refuelling?

Presumptions:
1.  D = deuterium
2.  Deuterium will be stored as water, D2O.
3.  Fusion: 2D -> 1He, mass deficiency ~ 0.306 AMU.
4.  E=mc^2
5.  0.306g -> 2.75 x 10^16 joules.
6.  1 joule = 1 watt-second
7.  A 1000 Mw powerplant will need 22.9g of D2O per year at 100% efficiency.
8.  If the 1000 Mw powerplant is 0.1% efficient in its use of
deuterium, it will need 22,900g of D2O per year - or 22.9 liters, this
works out to 2290 Kg of D2O per century per 1000 Mw of powerplant
output.
9.  It's late, I'm tired, and I have probably made mistakes in my
calculations.  Feel free to correct any you find. :)

I don't see why fusion powerplants should need to be refueled more
than once a decade, or even less often.  Enough fuel can be built into
the powerplant to power it for decades, or even centuries.

John


P.S. - Is there a Traveller Usenet newsgroup?  I couldn't find one,
but it may just not be on my news server.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:10:50 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Re: Comments on the T4.1 JOT Skill

Mriftin@aol.com wrote:

> I personally think that JOT should be a career choice and not a skill, it
> makes more sense that way...like Bards in D&D. Anyway, that's my 2 cents
> worth...

Not a bad suggestion, IMO.

I'm always like the *idea* of JOT, but never how it was implemented. It
seems to either end up being too powerful or too whimpy as a skill. 
Maybe having a "Generalist" (or Jack of all trades) career *is* the way
to go.

The Generalist, perhaps, gets few skills per term, but can freely choose
which skills he picks up from *any* table.  Because the JOT is "master
of none), he has an upper limit on the number of level he can earn in
any skill.  This would allow the creation of a PC with a very broad, but
shallow, range of skills...and that *is* how I see the JOT.

What say, you all?

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:16:24 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

This is draft material from the world generation charts for T4.1
Specifically, look at the charts for Allegiances and for Milieux. I want to
fill in the blanks for 

max TL for the milieux.
starport and base DMs for the milieux
possible allegiances for the various regions
(distant sector is intended to support someone creating their own sector on
the fringes of the known universe).


Marc



WORLD GENERATION CHECKLIST
	1. System Contents
		A. Gas Giants.
		B. Planetoid Belts.
		C. Population Modifier.
	2. Mainworld UWP
	A. Planetary Size: 2D-2. 
	B. Atmosphere: 2D-7+Size.
		 If Size 0, Atmosphere 0.
	C. Hydro. 2D-7+ Atmos. 
		If Size 1-, Hydro 0;
		if Atmos 1- or A+, then
			Hydro DM -4.
			Max Hydro A.
	D. Population: 2D-2
		If Pop 0, then 
			Gov 0, Law 0.
	E. Gov: 2D -7 + Pop.
	F. Law Level. 2D-7 +Gov.
	G. Determine Tech Level.
	H. Find Trade Classes.
	I. Determine Bases.
3. Generate System Details.
	A. Allegiance.
	B. World Name
4. Record data (one line for each system, using the format shown above). Map
the world presence on the subsector or sector map.
	Minimum Value: Convert all negative values to 0.
 SYSTEM CONTENTS
	2D	PM	Belts	GG	Starport
	2	RR	3	5	A
	3	1	2	4	A
	4	2	2	4	A
	5	3	1	3	B
	6	4	1	3	B
	7	5	-	2	C
	8	6	-	1	C
	9	7	-	1	D
	10	8	-	-	E
	11	9	-	-	E
	12	RR	-	-	E
	Roll for Population Multiplier, Belts, and Gas Giants independently. Record
as single digits in the order PBG.
	RR= Reroll.

STARPORTS AND BASES
	2D	A	B	C	D	E
	N	6-	6-	-	-	-
	D	*	-	-	-	-
	S	4-	5-	6-	7-	-
	W	**	-	-	-	-
	M	-	-	-	-	-
	Roll 2D based on starport.
	* Maximum 1 Depot per 100 Naval bases of same allegiance; must be at starport class A.
	** Way stations are placed rather than randomly generated (milieu: 600+). 1 per 30 parsecs of route.
	*** Placed rather than generated.
 TECHNOLOGICAL LEVEL
	Value	Port	Siz	Atm	Hyd	Pop	Gov
	0	-	+2	+1	-	-	+1
	1	-	+2	+1	-	+1	-
	2	-	+1	+1	-	+1	-
	3	-	+1	+1	-	+1	-
	4	-	+1	-	-	+1	-
	5	-	-	-	-	+1	+1
	6	-	-	-	-	-	-
	7	-	-	-	-	-	-
	8	-	-	-	-	-	-
	9	-	-	-	+1	+2	-
	A	+6	-	+1	+2	+4	-
	B	+4		+1	-	-	-
	C	+2		+1	-	-	-
	D	-		+1	-	-	-2
	E	-		+1	-	-	-
	F	-		+1	-	-	-
	X	
	Determine all DMs from this table and apply them to 1D. Result is the
mainworld TL. Rolls less than 0 are 0. If Pop 0, then Gov 0, Law 0, TL 0.

ALLEGIANCES
Name		Possible Allegiances
Vilani Empire	Vi	-	-	-	Cs	Na
	Ziru Sirka		Zs	-	-	-	-	-
First Contact	Te	In	Vi	-	-	-
Interstellar Wars	Tc	Vi	-	-	-	-
	The Rule of Man	Rm	-	-	-	-	-
The Long Night	In	-	-	-	-	Na
Imperium		Im	-	-	-	Cs	Na
Rebellion		Im	-	-	-	-	-
Distant Sector	-	-	-	-	-	-

 TRADE CLASSIFICATIONS
	Class	Size	Atm	Hyd	Pop	Gov	Law	Description
	none	-	-	-	-	-	-	nothing distinctive
	Ag	-	4-9	4-8	5-7	-	-	Agricultural
	Ast	0	0	0	-	-	-	Asteroid Belt
	Ba	-	-	-	0	0	0	Barren
	De	-	2+	0	-	-	-	Desert
	Fl	-	A+	1+	-	-	-	Fluid Oceans
	Hi	-	-	-	9+	-	-	High Population
	Ic	-	0-1	1+	-	-	-	Ice Capped
	Ind	-	2-4,7,9	-	9+	-	-	Industrial
	Lo	-	-	-	1-3	-	-	Low Population
	Na	-	0-3	0-3	6+	-	-	Non Agricultural
	Ni	-	-	-	4-6	-	-	Non Industrial
	Po	-	2-5	0-3	-	-	-	Poor
	Ri	-	6-8	-	6-8	4-9	-	Rich*
	Va	-	0	-	-	-	-	Vacuum
	Wa	-	-	A	-	-	-	Water World
	*Government is not considered for Aslan, Kkree and Hiver Rich.
	*Vargr Rich world cannot have Government type 7.
 MILIEUX
Date 	Name	Max TL	St	N	S
 -9000	Vilani Empire	-	-	-	-
 -4000	Ziru Sirka	-	-		
  2000 AD	First Contact	9	-		
  2200 AD	Interstellar Wars	10	-		
  2521 AD	The Rule of Man	12			
  3521 AD	The Long Night	varies			
    200	Early Imperium	12			
    300	Vargr Campaigns	13			
    500	First Survey	13			
    600	Civil War	14			
    700	Solomani Expansion.	14			
    800	Psionic Suppressions	14			
  1000	Solomani Rim Wars	14			
  1100	Late Imperium	15			
  1120	Rebellion	15			
	Imperial dates shown unless marked AD.
	Occasional tech levels on some worlds may exceed the maximum TL stated here.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:15:57 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Cold-starts...

- --=====================_888549357==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Came across this article in my archives. Thought it might interest those
presently talking about fusion powerplants, etc.



- --=====================_888549357==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


                  Rapid Cold Start for TL16 Fusion Power Plants

                              by Stuart Machin

      At tech level 16, the understanding of fusion technology becomes complete and
it reaches the true physical limits. As part of this, a full comprehension of the
start up procedures becomes apparent. 

      It can be seen at this tech level than cold starts can take place much
quicker. This can be done through a sophisticated process involving the containment
of semi-fusion Hydrogen within a magnetic/gravitic bottle. This bottle is stable as
long as power is supplied, and holds within it sufficient charge to engage a
normally cold power plant as if it was warm. 

      This semi-fusion supply acts as a pre-warm up catalyst that speeds up the
cold start process to that of the warm process. This increase in speed is partially
due the fact that a fusion state does not have to be set within the power plant as
it is already present from the stored bottle. Also, with the semi-fusionized
Hydrogen present, the power plant gets a considerable head start in its climb to
standard operating temperature.

      What is the effect on the design of the vessel?

This concept can only be fitted to vessels at TL16+ with fusion power plants.
All volumes etc. are per  one kilolitre of power plant. 

                  Volume  Weight Power(Mw)# Price(MCr)
Fast Cold Start    0.03   0.06    0.21       0.06
 
#From some other power source

      The energy bottle is not very stable, and all TL16+ starports will require
the discharging of all fast cold start bottles before docking/landing. This
potential instability will occur occasionally (12 on 2D), and on these occasions a
task must be made:

         Routine,Engineer,Edu,10 secs(Fateful,Hazardous)

      If the roll is made, the start will occur in the normal cold start time. If a
mishap other than destroyed occurs, start up will take twice  the normal cold start
up time. If a destroyed result occurs, the power plant melts to slag, and on a 8+
on 2D, the resulting heat shock will disintegrate the ship. Worsen the difficulty
by one level for every month the bottle is not discharged and cleared for at least
24 hours. If this cleaning process is carried out every week, the task becomes
simple. If a vehicle is still using fusion power at tech level 18+, this
instability problem is cured.Traveller-digest     Thursday, February 26 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 223



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: social levels
Re: High-Traffic Surface-Orbit Shuttle Service
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?
Re: Escort Tonnage
Re: Next Software Project
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: Comments on the T4.1 JOT Skill
Re: Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?
Social "class"
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: World Generation Modifications
Standardized Cargo
Re: Ship design (retro style)
Re: Rob's Starport Economics (long)
Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets
Re: Rob's Starport Economics (long)
Re: T4.1 documents from marc...
Re: Standardized Cargo
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: Standardized Cargo

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:36:41 EST
From: Ghan II <GhanII@aol.com>
Subject: Re: social levels

   Hi,
  How about Soc Level ^ 2 * 100 = Cr  per month for expenses.
   Later,
    Doug Snyder

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:15:36 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: High-Traffic Surface-Orbit Shuttle Service

>TL12  Thrust Plates 5G  -90     -1260   315     1.9
I suspect 5G is excessive - turnaround time will be dominated by loading/
unloading, traffic, etc. (After all, it takes 2G only ~10 minutes to 
reach orbit and orbital velocity.) Since the T-plates dominate the cost,
this could save a bucket of money.

Alternative designs (without wings) that take off/land vertically would
be useful for some situations, as they don't need runways.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:23:13 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

Perhaps this would be a good opportunity to introduce (some) population
modifiers based on size/habitability?

> MILIEUX
>Date    Name    Max TL  St      N       S
>  2521 AD       The Rule of Man 12
>  1000  Solomani Rim Wars       14

If only Leroy was still here - or would it be unfair of us to gloat?

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:40:06 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?

That is one of the premises behind the GURPS SPACE and GURPS VEHICLES rules
for fusion power plants.
  Essentially put, the rules are set up such that the old "rules" are being
kept as a means of keeping faith with the past.  All in all, I can't answer
that question.  But if it bothers you in that manner <Grin>, there is
nothing that says you can't do the following:

1) assume that all powerplant fuel lasts for 10 years or so.

2) assume that all jump fuel expenditures are kept as they are

3) and for Heplar drives, keep the fuel usage as is.

  Personally, I like the idea of doing it that way...

      Hal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:44:52 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Escort Tonnage

>The value of an escort would be altered by several factors;
I agree that these are things that should be taken into account, I think
they are really only "modifiers" to the base value.
The base value is determined by the cost of an escort. Look at it this way.
An escort has to pay for itself to stay in business. They have monthly
payments (usually) just like any other. At a minimum, they have to meet
their payments. If there is a segment where ships can't afford to pay
enough to enable them to meet those payments, then the escorts won't serve
it. (If they do, they will go out of business quickly enough.) Therefore,
the ships must either conduct their business unescorted, or else pay what
they need to pay to keep the escorts in business.

So this works into something like as follows.
You might as well take the Imperial baseline escort tonnage to merchant
tonnage to be 1:10. Work in
>2). Amount of hostile activity in the area
as a modifier. If the piracy level is above the Imperial norm, make it 1:6
or 1:8. Or if it is quite peaceful amke it 1:12 or 1:14. Additionally I
would add
*Naval presence in the area.
If there is more of a naval presence here, move it down to 1:12 or 1:14. Or
just work the Naval tonnage into the amount required.

Take, say, the cost of a bog-standard Escort out of the books, and derive a
figure representing their bi-weekly costs (the basic unit of escorting?).
Divide this by the proportion above to get a cost per ton of merchant.
This can be modified by
>3). Reputation of the Escort
An escort with a good reputation might get up to, say twice the figure. One
who is unknown might get 80%. An Escort with over-the-top machinery, or
ex-Navy officers with distinguished active service records might be able to
get more.

>1). Profitability of one run to the intended destination
This should only be a factor with regards to whether there are merchants
available to escort, or not. This should not affect the price. If there is
no one willing to pay the minimum an escort needs to stay in business,
there will be no escorts there. It makes no sense to pick up a contract for
less than your sustenence cost.

>4). Armament of the ship to be escorted
This can be worked easiest as a modifier to the "size" of the merchant
ship. Say a 400t merchant ship with really good armaments, might only pay
as if it was a 300t merchant. Similarly, a merchant with _no_ armament
(like it is under repair) might pay as if it were twice the size it is.

>The number of ships signed on to be escorted (i.e. the size of the convoy)
>can be as large as the escort captain is willing to risk,
I'd stick to the derived proportion above. These figure can be upgraded
from a game mechanic to a "travel advisory rating" by the local Merchant
Marine and thus be accessible to the players as a negotiating poitn. If you
are over-escorting, (Ie. less escort tonnage than the local advisorary)
then the ships have an excuse to pay you less. If you are under escorting
(a bigger escort tonnage than would otherwise be required) the escort has
an excuse to charge more for being taken out of its way.


Lets look at a worked example. Lets assume that we have a ship, The Brusied
Petunia, running an escort service in District 268 in the Spinward Marches.
This is not an official Imperial area, but it is on the Spinward Main.
There are a fair few pirates but as the fifth frontier war has just ended
there are also Naval ships up and about the place. So lets say that overall
local travel advisories reccomend a 8:1 escort ratio.
Now, the only figures I have to hand are for some optimised Megatraveller
designs. A close escort is 255MCr, and clocks in at 336t. That's a monthly
payment of 1.05MCr, or 531KCr biweekly. Divide by its size to get a cost of
1.58KCr per ton of escort, or, dividing again and rounding, 200Cr per ton
of merchanter.
So the Bruised Petunia isn't really known here and has a silly name, so the
merchants it talks to are only prepared to offer it 150Cr per ton. It is
400t and can, in theory, escort 3200t of ships. So it talks to a 200t far
trader and a 3000t liner. The 200t trader is normal and is prepared, after
negotiations to pay 30KCr for the service. The liner has a PA turret or two
so is fairly comfortable (DM rules that it counts as being 2800t), and will
only pay 420K.
The Bruised Petunia only cost 127MCr, which is 264K biweekly, so is getting
off well. In fact, I'm using the Corsair stats for the Bruised Petunia!

Cheers,
Jo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:48:28 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Next Software Project

At 01:37 AM 2/21/98 +0000, you wrote:
>bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote:
>
>>>In a message dated 98-02-19 13:55:35 EST, you write:
>>><< 4) FFS2 (both Mac/PC a way away) - as it says >>
>>>this one has my vote....
>>
>>Andy Akins spreadsheet actually does FFS2 ship design very nicely - I would
>>say a mapping program might be more interesting.
>
>Has anyone converted this to ClarisWorks?

I have tried, but not yet succeeded.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:56:05 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

At 01:23 PM 2/26/98 -0800, Bruce wrote:
>
>Perhaps this would be a good opportunity to introduce (some) population
>modifiers based on size/habitability?
>
>> MILIEUX
>>Date    Name    Max TL  St      N       S
>>  2521 AD       The Rule of Man 12
>>  1000  Solomani Rim Wars       14
>
>If only Leroy was still here - or would it be unfair of us to gloat?

NOW you've done it.

I suspect we will have a visit by the restless spirit soon.  Shudder.

Scott 
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:10:09 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

Um... Marc... is the New Era or "Virus Era" absent for any particular reason,
Marc? Or is it just an oversight?

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:16:49 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Comments on the T4.1 JOT Skill

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Mriftin@aol.com wrote:
>
> > I personally think that JOT should be a career choice and not a skill, it
> > makes more sense that way...like Bards in D&D. Anyway, that's my 2 cents
> > worth...
>
> Not a bad suggestion, IMO.
>
> I'm always like the *idea* of JOT, but never how it was implemented. It
> seems to either end up being too powerful or too whimpy as a skill.
> Maybe having a "Generalist" (or Jack of all trades) career *is* the way
> to go.
>
> The Generalist, perhaps, gets few skills per term, but can freely choose
> which skills he picks up from *any* table.  Because the JOT is "master
> of none), he has an upper limit on the number of level he can earn in
> any skill.  This would allow the creation of a PC with a very broad, but
> shallow, range of skills...and that *is* how I see the JOT.
>
> What say, you all?

Well, the Master of None can be implemented by making it VERY difficult to pick
up the next term. Or maybe difficult to get promoted or something along those
lines.  That keeps the JOT career standard compared to the other careers, i.e.
no special rules.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:21:33 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?

jfpinder wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I'm new to Traveller, and the mailing list, and my first question is
> about Traveller Fusion Powerplants.
>
> Why would they ever need refuelling?
>
> Presumptions:

Much Gearheadiness clipped...

> I don't see why fusion powerplants should need to be refueled more
> than once a decade, or even less often.  Enough fuel can be built into
> the powerplant to power it for decades, or even centuries.
>

Since starship powerplants use the same fuel for jump drives and HEPlaR
reaction mass, I never really thought it mattered.  In essence, everytime
you refueled your jump fuel, you refueled you powerplant.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:54:26 -0500
From: jvhinkel <jvhinkel@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Social "class"

- --
> From: Traveller-digest <owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com>
> To: traveller-digest@lists.MPGN.COM
> Subject: Traveller-digest V1998 #219
> Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 5:21 PM
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:10:13 +0000
> From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
> Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
> 
> Jim Cooper wrote:
> Consider the group of dirt poor belters  who  strike  the  mother
> lode.  They decide to retire and enjoy the good life ... they buy
> a mansion ... have installed a 10 meter  high  statue  of  Albert
> Eienstein urinating expensive mineral water into a pond  (on  the
> front lawn) ... 

It has always been a dream of mine!

>  always  feed  dinner  guests  burger  and  fries
> (served by white gloved staff) ... keep the  ketchup  in  crystal
> decanters ("cos its class, init?") ...

Is there any other way to eat and serve ketchup ?

>  join the local  golf  club  and always take a large keg of beer
>  with them while they  try  to  play (and yelling and laughing at 
> the other patrons).  

Have youseguys been out with me and my friends (fiends) ??
Don't forget swinging golf clubs wildly as we chase each other 
around with golf carts trying to commit vehicular homicide or death by
blunt force trauma (or AT LEAST unconscienceious by blunt force trauma).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:53:03 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

At 01:23 PM 2/26/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Perhaps this would be a good opportunity to introduce (some) population
>modifiers based on size/habitability?
>
>> MILIEUX
>>Date    Name    Max TL  St      N       S
>>  2521 AD       The Rule of Man 12
>>  1000  Solomani Rim Wars       14
>
>If only Leroy was still here - or would it be unfair of us to gloat?

Are you kidding?  This made my day.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:37:29 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

>> MILIEUX
>>Date    Name    Max TL  St      N       S
>>  2521 AD       The Rule of Man 12
>>  1000  Solomani Rim Wars       14
>
>If only Leroy was still here - or would it be unfair of us to gloat?

WHAT???  Leroy's gone???  <wail of despair>  No! No! It can't be true!
Come back, Leroy!  And your imaginary friend too!

And you, you TML people!   You heartless bastards!!!  Look what you've
done!  You've driven away the genius of the age, the light of the world,
cool guy extraordinaire...  <sob>  I can't go on.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 98 00:01:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Standardized Cargo

    I've been thinking on how cargo is handled in Traveller.  Especially in
light of having had the chance to tour a port facility recently.  The entire
world has switched over to the Container system of cargo transport.  It's
extremely efficient, very secure and I don't think it would be abandoned on an
Interstellar scale to return to stevedores and time consuming hand loading of
Starships.
    Thus I suspect that the Imperium has a standardized Cargo Container sizes
on the order of...

    100 displacement tons
     50 displacement tons
      5 displacement tons
      1 displacement ton

And the very rare...

   1,000 displacement tons
     500 displacement tons

    Used mostly for shipping military weapons like Spinal mounts and such I
would suppose.

    IF a standardized container system does exist in the Imperium then ships
will be designed to take advantage of it.  Even down to the glorified pickup
truck level of the average Free Trader.

    Thoughts?

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:36:51 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Ship design (retro style)

Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
> >In CT/HG you could add extra jump capacitors for storing black
> >globe absorbed energies. There was also a formula for
> >calculating how many capacitors there were in a standard
> >configuration jump drive. Maybe I'm going blind but I can't see
> >a similar rule in MT. Does anyone know the MT stats for j-drive
> >capacitors?
>
> I don't have my book with me, but I think this is listed in the
> Referee's Guide in the Starship Combat section, under the subheading
> Black Globes. I do recall that one CT energy point is 250 Mw, though,
> and that the values from the MT vehicle construction system are
> derived from the CT percentages pretty directly. For example, a j6
> drive is something like 7 percent a ship's displacement in CT. In MT,
> a jump unit requires 13.5 kl in MT (which happens to be 1 percent a
> 100 ton ship's 1350 kl volume) and it takes 7 jump units to get j6 --
> thus, 7 percent, as in CT.

It does say ...

- - Each kiloliter of energy sink will hold 650 "megawatts" of raw,
  low level energy.

- - A ship without additional energy  sinks  installed  has  energy
  sinks (for the jump drive) equal to:
      Volume of the Ship in Kiloliters x Jump Number x 0.005

This seems to match with CT.  CT also said  that  1  displacement
ton costs MCr4, which works out to Cr296296 per kiloliter  (About
Mcr0.3?) but what is the weight per kiloliter?



Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen

"I did not ask for, did not receive, and will not pay
for item 21 'Tax' on your invoice."
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:46:07 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Rob's Starport Economics (long)

Speculative cargo for small ships
=================================

I've now had some time to analyse your message, and I think the main 
trade levels are about right (see my next message on the TML).  
The freight levels for small ships (i.e you are paid Cr1000/T 
to carry goods owned by someone else) are OK, but I think they 
give too little cargo on low-trade routes.

I think that both speculative cargo (that the ship's captain buys) and 
freight will have all sorts of strange variations - nicely simulated by 
the trade rules in CT (or rules set of your choice).  

Example 1 - the ship may be in port in time to buy the surplus from a 
good harvest on farmer Jim's place - he filled his regular commitment 
to Tukera and wants to sell the surplus so that he can invest in a new 
combine harvester / put money aside for penalty payments during lean 
years / send his daughter to Naval Acadamy / buy a new R2 unit to 
maintain the 'vaporators / whatever.

Example 2 - the Tukera lines ship has suffered a problem and will be 
delayed for a few days.  Several passengers are insisting that they 
must leave today.  The Tukera captain will approach the ship and offer 
to pay the passage fees for these passengers - and even loan a steward 
if the ship does not have one.

Example 3 - Free trader Jake has just got a sweet deal on selling his 
combine harvesters, but the payment was in tons of grain - more than he 
can fit on his ship.  He needs to find another trader to take the grain 
(either as freight or cargo).

These examples of small-lot goods will happen on all worlds - on worlds 
with a high trade level there will be more opportunities but also more 
competition from other free traders.  therefore, i suggest you scrap 
the "per year freight factors" table and go back to the old ways.



Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:46:17 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets

While analysing the trade levels in PE (to comment on Rob Eaglestones's 
starport economics), I also took the opportunity to look at the cost 
and size of fleets for use in PE/IS games.

I looked at Olny (in IS) and Khuir (in PE) for comparisons and made 
some estimates on Olny's fleet for PE.  Here are the results:

Discretionary Budget = Gov budget - Civilian Expenses - 300
(the 300 RU is more than enough to pay your normal level of 
improvements toward TL, colony expansion, infrastructure improvement 
and so on).

Khuir has a Discretionary Budget (DB) of 1250 RU.
Total forces (TL 9) - PE page 81
AF 56
DF 66
jump 41
transport 24
Cost = 57,190 RU (those TL 9 attack factors cost a lot)
This would take 46 years to buy using the DB and has a maintenace 
budget of 561 RU (about half the DB)

The jump-capable fleet is size 82 (246 RU maintenace budget)
SDB fleet is same Attack + Defense strength as the jump fleet.

Now, I think that the total forces are a reasonable size, based on the 
maintenance budget, and presumably were built in les than 45 years by 
the use of additional taxes for this war-mongering world.

Olny has a DB of 2150 RU
If we build a total force of
AF 100
DF 100
jump 100
transport 50
Cost = 25,500 RU (TL D has cheaper attack factors)
Maintenance = 1050 RU (about half the DB)
This force takes 11 years to build based on the DB.

The maintenace cost of 1050 RU (around 5 Trillion cr) is not 
unreasonable if we look at Trillion Credit Squadron economics:
1 x 10^10 people x cr 500 = 5 trillion Credits.  As the Olny space 
fleet would only be around size 160 in my analysis, the fleet can 
actually be based away from home for part of the time (it costs extra 
RU to support units away from base - see PE page 84).

So for a 30/30/100 fleet (cost 11,000 RU = 55 trillion credits) we have 
a maintenace cost of around 5 trillion credits assuming that not all 
ships are based at Olny ... roughly in-line with TCS fleet sizes.


When we look at Olny's squadrons in Imperial Squadrons, we see that 
Olny has a trivial 5 squadrons (only 4 as one is a BatRon) ... implying 
that a CruRon costs around 10 trillion Cr and a BatRon aound 20 
trillion credits.  This makes the squadrons much bigger than anything 
in previous publications (Rebellion, Spinward Marches Campaign, 
Fighting Ships, where I calculate that a BatRon is around 1 to 3 
trillion credits and a CruRon is about half this).

One more observation before I move to my conclusions.  Olny has a SBD 
fleet of 1500, which would defeat it's own space fleet in 1 combat turn 
and suffer no losses.  You would need around 25 squadrons to take on a 
SDB force of 1500 - I do not know if this was the case in 5th Frontier 
War (I sold my copy 4 years ago), but it makes home worlds in an 
Imperial squadrons game virtually impregnable - you can take out the 
colonies, but the economic powerhouse of the hi-tech hi-pop capital is 
unassailable.


My conclusions
==============
For a war-mongering world (Khuir) SDB and jump fleet are similar in 
size.
For a peaceful world (Olny???) the jump fleet is 5 to 10x weaker than 
the SDB fleet.

I suspect that Imperial Squadrons is based on 5th Frontier War 
algorithms, which is fine for the Imperium in 1100, but far too boring 
for the threatening stance of a pocket Empires campaign.

For an Imperial Squadrons game set using Pocket Empires backdrop I 
would use a different table for determining number of squadrons:
SDB       Squadrons
1500      25
 150       5
  15       1     

or, for those who like equations:
Squadrons = 0.15 x SDB^0.699

This allows me to carry on using 1 BatRon = 2 trillion Cr and 1 CruRon 
= 1 trillion credits (at least for Squadrons from a POP A worlds), 
which always gave me the feeling of large (trillion-credit) fleets 
busily blowing each other up.

When we are talking about this level of money, it is difficult to bring 
out the subtle advantages and disadvantages of a FFS ship design 
(mesons guns vs armour, particle accelerators vs structure, heretical 
spinal lasers against sand casters), so I'm quite happy for people to 
design their FFS "death star" and put them into trillion credit 
squadrons (60% cost = big ships, 25% = escorts, 15% = auxiliaries like 
hospital ships, missile reloads) and rate them using Imperial 
Squadrons.  Maybe I'll let DeathRons cost 4 trillion Cr and give them 
+2 DF, BF = AF = DF compared to BatRons :-)  Just imagine the terror a 
999 J3 DeathRon counter will add to a game.



Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:46:14 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Rob's Starport Economics (long)

Pocket Empires vs Rob's Starport Economics
==========================================

My flatmate thinks I'm mad, but it was a very pleasant way to spend my 
time.  Here goes:

PE gives a GWP of around 100 to 2000 Cr per person (as only 1 tenth of 
the POP is in the "wealth creation" labour pool) and this is multiplied 
by trade - based on Starport quality and number of trade worlds.  This 
gives a rough spread of 1 to 1200 Cr per person for the annual value of 
trade goods (actually, it is their GWP effect, which may be 
considerably different to the value, but I'll ignore that).

Take average trade goods as Cr 8000 per T.

PE: POP A, port A world => 120 million T per week
Rob: POP A, port A, TL A+, Xboat route, GG, 2 parsec => Va=10
Va=10 gives 4 million T per week

PE: POP 8, Port E => 2000 T per week
Rob: 400 T per week

These are both, IMO, close enough for role-playing use, and if I 
increase the value of goods to 16,000 Cr/T I halve the difference.  I 
can easily argue that the GWP of 1 T of goods is 5x the actual value at 
POP 8, 30x at POP A and so on ... it depends on your economic model and 
how you see the relationship between trade and GWP (multipliers or 
dividers, depending on all sorts of issues). 

In short, I think Rob & Jon have come up with a good system to use as 
background for a RPG.



Simon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:54:49 -0800 (PST)
From: jwbrewer@ucsd.edu (James W Brewer)
Subject: Re: T4.1 documents from marc...

I've also misplaced my copy of the task system so I would really appreciate
a CC: from whomever sends Andrew Akins a copy. 

                     James W. Brewer
                     Univ. of Calif. at San Diego

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:57:51 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo

Stephen wrote:
> IF a standardized container system does exist in the Imperium then
> ships will be designed to take advantage of it. Even down to the
> glorified pickup truck level of the average Free Trader.
>
> Thoughts?

In CT there was the Jump Ship (from Supplement 9: Fighting Ships)
which has a picture of a vessel towing rocks in a  net.  But  the
text talks of Jump Pods of different designs.  The cargo  pod  is
listed as:  "A  bulk  cargo  carrier  displacing  1000  tons  and
carrying approximately 950 tons of cargo.  Several varieties  are
available, including special liquid tankers, bulk food  or  grain
carriers, and compartmented transport containers."

In MT the Rebellion  Sourcebook  gives  us  the  Common  Imperial
Transport which, although has no text, has a picture suggesting a
similar concept.

Regardless of how they are loaded internally, you can almost  see
how a cargo pod operation might  be  run  not  unlike  the  xboat
system.

Also check out the SF comedy film Space Truckers for more ideas.



Regards PLST
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen
"zzz..." (bed time)
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:15:52 -0600 ()
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

>>If only Leroy was still here - or would it be unfair of us to gloat?
>
>WHAT???  Leroy's gone???  <wail of despair>  No! No! It can't be true!
>Come back, Leroy!  And your imaginary friend too!
>

It's all okay. He is hunting aurochs in the Black Forest right now, hoping
to bag one at 50,000 ft. with his TL 15 Solomani-Rim-War-vintage sniper
rifle. No hard feelings, ya know. Thorazine is kewl that way. ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:17:43 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo

s.johnson107@genie.geis.com wrote:

>     I've been thinking on how cargo is handled in Traveller.  Especially in
> light of having had the chance to tour a port facility recently.  The entire
> world has switched over to the Container system of cargo transport.  It's
> extremely efficient, very secure and I don't think it would be abandoned on an
> Interstellar scale to return to stevedores and time consuming hand loading of
> Starships.
>     Thus I suspect that the Imperium has a standardized Cargo Container sizes
> on the order of...
>
>     100 displacement tons
>      50 displacement tons
>       5 displacement tons
>       1 displacement ton

Actually, they've already got that... there are 3x3x6 meter standardized
containers.  That's roughly 10'x10'x20' (about the size of a semi trailer).  It
holds 54 kl about 4 dTons. If you assume a little extra volume for the container
itself, the container will occupy 4 dtons while holding 54 kl.  These modules can
then be loaded onto semis once planetside.  Likewise, they're easily stacked for
better storage.  Specialty modules could include micro contragrav lifters,
electronic locks, life support, etc.

>     IF a standardized container system does exist in the Imperium then ships
> will be designed to take advantage of it.  Even down to the glorified pickup
> truck level of the average Free Trader.
>

Actually, I'm working on a ship that takes advantage of it.  The primary feature
is the isolated cargo bays.  Each bay is a 15 meter long cylinder that rotates.  A
quarter of the surface is open.  As it rotates, the opening starts as the loading
port.  Then it rolls up into the ceiling, sealing off the cargo bay.  Finally it
opens into an interior corridor of the ship.  Each bay thus operates as its own
airlock and can be isolated from the ship if needed.  Likewise, the bay is just
the right size for a 10 ton launch, making it a handy launch bay. The bay can hold
two of the standardized cargo containers with 2 spare dtons for "loose" cargo.
This isn't a very efficient design as far as storage goes, but what it loses in
efficiency, it makes up for in ease of use and safety.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #223
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Traveller-digest      Friday, February 27 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 224



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?
Rob's Starport Economics
Re: Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?
Cool Link
Containers
Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Stealth Suits
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: High-Traffic Surface-Orbit Shuttle Service
Re: Stealth Suits
FWD: Making Vilani look easy
My Library Data Page
GURPS TNS updated
Re: Next Software Project
Shameless Plug / *Official Infini-V Support Site Change*
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: Standardized Cargo
Stats Redone: High-Traffic Surface-Orbit Transport
Office 98, Virus, and associated ramblings (was Re: Next Software Project)
Re: World Generation Modifications
Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:47:46 -0500
From: "Jim L" <bigjim@warwick.net>
Subject: Re:Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:15:24 -0800
From: jfpinder <jfpinder@gte.net>
Subject: Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?

>Presumptions:

>7.  A 1000 Mw powerplant will need 22.9g of D2O per year at 100%
>efficiency.
>8.  If the 1000 Mw powerplant is 0.1% efficient in its use of
>deuterium, it will need 22,900g of D2O per year - or 22.9 liters, this
>works out to 2290 Kg of D2O per century per 1000 Mw of powerplant
>output.
>9.  It's late, I'm tired, and I have probably made mistakes in my
>calculations.  Feel free to correct any you find. :)

>I don't see why fusion powerplants should need to be refueled more
>than once a decade, or even less often.  Enough fuel can be built into
>the powerplant to power it for decades, or even centuries.
The major consumer of fuel is not the main power plant, it is the jump
drive. A 100 ton ship consumes 140 m^3 of fuel per parsec. That's 140000
liters(by your figure for the ratio . Also, did your calcs on mass to
energy take into consideration the fact that 16/20 of the mass of D2O is
the O atom?(Atomic wt O (16) + 2 * Atomic Wt D( 2) I presume that the O
molecules are waste in the Fusion plant (or do we have a really funky
reaction where we get He(D+D), Flourine(O+D) and Sulfur(O+O) as O and D
atoms fuse at random? I know very little about the real dynamics of
fusion.) 
Jim L

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:48:16 -0500
From: "Jim L" <bigjim@warwick.net>
Subject: Rob's Starport Economics

Date: 25 Feb 1998 18:52 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Rob's Starport Economics (long)

>Jim L's post, which did math on an E starport which ended up
>with an absurdly large trade volume, made me think about a
>simple, unrelated-to-other-systems rule of thumb to determine
>trade volume between two worlds.
>
>This is what Jon Buller and I came up with.
Alrighty then, before people accuse me of starting Rob and Jon off on the
huge system that they came up with, first let me point out that I was only
doing the math. My post was in no way a yeah or nay for the figure. 
It all comes back to what level of shipping is your Trav universe at?
Another thing to take into consideration is the
self-sufficiency/specialization of the planet. Rob's original figure of
10kg per person per week would not be totally absurd for a planet which
produced next to no food (like a vacuum/dangerous atm mining colony) 
If there was a nearby ag world, you could bet dollars to donuts that there
would be HEAVY freight traffic between the two ( in proportion of course) I
haven't done the math on profit margins, but I'm sure that by just
mentioning it, some one else will. 
On  a side note, two pts which I'm sure have been discussed before, but
let's beat them up again...
1) From what I know of real world space(read rocket) design, the bigger it
is, the more the mass of the engines drops proportionally. This is why
1960's NASA relied on mega rockets like the Saturn. Almost everything in
the Traveller design tables follows a linear progression with the exception
of the volume factor of the hull ( maybe a couple others). I'm sure I'll be
bombed with examples of this being wrong, but just look at the fusion plant
tables and the thruster tables. Both are straight progressions (which does
make it easier to make a spreadsheet to do the calcs tho) in every category
except personnel. Questions, Comments?
2) Lemme see.....Oh yeah. How many of you out there place refueling
stations in parsecs without inhabited planets, but with Gasgiants? IMTU,
when such a system is placed along a trade route, a station is orbited
around the GG and ships from the station (which is a modular type and
therefore capable of being moved outsystem piecemeal) dive the atmosphere
to get fuel. They load the station up on fuel and incoming ships merely
have to hook up, not risk their cargo/passengers/skins on an atm dive. I
haven't done any design (but feel the urge to do so, look for them in the
next few days) on  a related note, are there any rules for the hazards of
doing a skim? 
Jim L

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:58:29 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?

> The major consumer of fuel is not the main power plant, it is the jump
> drive. A 100 ton ship consumes 140 m^3 of fuel per parsec. That's 140000
> liters(by your figure for the ratio . Also, did your calcs on mass to
> energy take into consideration the fact that 16/20 of the mass of D2O is
> the O atom?(Atomic wt O (16) + 2 * Atomic Wt D( 2) I presume that the O
> molecules are waste in the Fusion plant (or do we have a really funky
> reaction where we get He(D+D), Flourine(O+D) and Sulfur(O+O) as O and D
> atoms fuse at random? I know very little about the real dynamics of
> fusion.)

Wouldn't that O2 be good for reaction mass?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:40:41 -0500
From: "Jim L" <bigjim@warwick.net>
Subject: Cool Link

http://home.earthlink.net/~jerryp/
The above site is the link to Jerry Pournelle's web page. For those who
don't know who the heck he is, he is a Sci-Fi Author and a phd who has sat
on the citizens space advisory council. He has lots of info on real world
space tech

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:59:11 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Containers

> Standardized Cargo

Didn't this get hashed to death about twelve times over the last five years?

Come to think of it, hasn't everything been hashed to death about twelve times
over the last five years. 

I apologize, but I've been rather tired lately. Why, last night, I was so
tired I forgot the Alamo for a couple of minutes, and now I have to go through
Indoctrination and FirearmsTraining again.

: )

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:33:16 -0600
From: "Chris Miller" <ironstar@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

- -----
>BTW, shouldn't these different dice be deserving of names other than the simple
>dx?  And not the geometrical terms like dodecahedron or whatever.  For example, a
>six-sided die, known in short as "d6" might be called "Dixie."  D3  - either
>"Half-Dixie,"  "Short Dixie" or the more unique "Dierdre" (from "dee-three").
>D10?  "Dieter."  (now is the time on Sprockets with when Dance").
>
>Bloo
>
- ---------> Nein! Ve vill not be giffing our dice silly little names like a
little gurrrl...

Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:07:19 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Stealth Suits

At 09:06 AM 26/02/98 -0500, Peter H. Brenton wrote:
>
>Yes Yes Yes!  All this stealth stuff is just intended to be background.  If
>the place is for-real in terms of security it will take some role
>playing/plot development to get into, not some fancy technology. Not that
>fancy tech will hurt either (usually).
>
>And if characters have the perfect defense against ultrasonic radar in
>their aresenal of techno-tricks, they won't encounter another such radar
>until their suit is in the shop anyway, right?

Of course they will! Enough times for them to develop a case of
overconfidence, anyway :)

- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

   "If in doubt - wipe it out."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:33:37 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

In a message dated 98-02-26 17:23:24 EST, you write:

<< 
 Um... Marc... is the New Era or "Virus Era" absent for any particular reason,
 Marc? Or is it just an oversight?
 
 Gary
 
  >>

Just an oversight. Add it in.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 22:43:02 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: High-Traffic Surface-Orbit Shuttle Service

On 02/26/98 at 11:13 AM,  "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca> said:

>			vol	pow	cost	crew
>Needle Airframe	1000t	931	 -272	 46	 -
>TL12  Thrust Plates 5G	-90	-1260 	315	1.9

Why 5G TPlates?  Shouldn't 2 or 3G TPlates do the trick, saving a huge
amount of space in your shuttle (smaller power plant) allowing you to carry
several more passengers.  Big cost savings too.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:59:37 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Stealth Suits

What's all this NONSENSE about wrap-around fibre optics and holography and
chill cans and yadda yadda yadda???  The obvious, foolproof way to make
yourself sensor-invisible, the way that's taught by nine out of ten leading
ninja grandmasters, is to simply memorize the layout of the building
perfectly, then clap your hands over your eyes and walk in the front door.
You can't see them, they can't see you.  Perfectly simple.  Works every
time.

The void of basic common sense shown on this thread really disappoints me.
Tsk, tsk.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:10:13 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: FWD: Making Vilani look easy

I sent this to the TravLang list the other day, but it just occurred to me
that the phrase in question is one of vital, daily use on the TML, so I'm
forwarding it here for the public benefit

>I've been worried for a long time that people are going to look at our
>finished Teach Yourself Vilani set and say, "nah, way too hard, I'm not
>going to bother with that."  The OBVIOUS solution, I've realized, is to
>pack the introduction and the back cover with all sorts of examples of much
>much scarier real-world languages.  I think I've found one such:
>
>Central Siberian Eskimo (Savoonga, St. Lawrence Island):
>
>      avelghaghtesnaanghisaghqaqsaghanka...
>     "I'm supposed to prevent them from not going in the future, but..."
>
>OR    igamsiqayugvikumanginaghyaghqaqsaghaghpesikut...
>      "You [singular] are supposed to be thanking us continually, but..."
>
>I think this should put the alleged "too longness" or "too complicatedness"
>of Vilani in proper perspective.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:03:07 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: My Library Data Page

Well the Luriani have now joined my growing collection of odds and ends
on my web site.

Ine Givar <http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/library/inegivar.htm>
Luriani <http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/library/luriani.htm>
Interstellar Wars <http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/library/int_wars.htm>

As I write more, I'll add it to the site.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"15 into 1 does go, I'm living proof"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 00:21:04 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: GURPS TNS updated

Well, this is a link worth following. Whatever happens I hope Loren
keeps this up. This is the kind of stuff I think we all want to see.
Follow the link below and enjoy.

<http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Traveller/news.html>

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"15 into 1 does go, I'm living proof"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:57:23 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Next Software Project

Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu> wrote:

>SDM>Has anyone converted this to ClarisWorks?
>
>I have tried, but not yet succeeded.

I tried with ClarisWorks 5, using the dataviz translators that came with
MacOS 8 (v9 IIRC) and it hangs about 90% of the way across the progress
bar. :-\

When I talked to Rob about the QSDS program he was talking about I found
out that it was actually an SSDS program...

Dom
(Who shudders to find himself contemplating Office 98 to get access to this...)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:53:35 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Shameless Plug / *Official Infini-V Support Site Change*

Hi everyone,

Apologies for bothering you on the same subject again so quickly, but I
thought this was worth mentioning.

Website News:
- -------------
Following a discussion with Rob Prior, the BITS support site for Infini-V
is now the official support site for the program. Why? Because Rob isn't
certain if his website will remain there long term.

So if you want to try out Rob's superb MacOS software that implements the
Central Supply Catalog's Vehicle Design System just point your browser at:

http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/

and follow the Traveller Page links

News on the PC version:
- ---------------------
We're still hoping for an April release of this one. The PC version is
being ported by one of Rob's Students, and a substantial amount of the
shareware fee for the full version will be going to him for his university
fees. So, aside from the fact that the Infini-V software is superb, you
will be helping a student fund his way with your shareware fee.

Metator:
- -------
The website above also has the old (no save or print) demo of Metator
installed if you want to try it out (MacOS only at the moment, I'm afraid).
Metator is Rob's World Generation program that produces all manner of
useful information based on the WBH, and the various expanded system rolls
in Traveller.

Also at the Website:
- ------------------
On the Campaign page are copies of acrobat files which have been generated
to support Traveller (4th Edition).

- - The Combat Crib Sheet amalgamates the rules from EA and T4 on a table
with footnotes (and has T4.1 task difficulties) on a single page.

- - The Introduction to Traveller sheet is a single page file which was
written at EuroGenCon 97 to help explain about the game and its background
to all the people who came up and said "Hi, I've only played Vampire/AD&D.
What's Traveller about? How does the level system work...".

Feel free to use either sheet...

- -----
I'll stop bothering you all now...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:00:32 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

 TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com> wrote:

>Um... Marc... is the New Era or "Virus Era" absent for any particular reason,
>Marc? Or is it just an oversight?

Bear in mind that there is a problem with NE / VE in that it has two
official settings.... the Regency approaching TL17, and RCES struggling to
reach TL12... So which mods do you use (not to mention what about the bits
out of those areas..)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:28:01 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo

>Thus I suspect that the Imperium has a standardized Cargo Container sizes
>...
>Thoughts?
Yeah, isn't this in the FAQ yet? I've seen this discussion two or three
times over the past several years. Including some very interesting
informtion from someone working with modern container ships. Check out the
archives.
In my universe containers are 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16 tons. Easier to fill gaps
in ships.
Jo

------------------------------

Date: 27 Feb 1998 10:10 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Stats Redone: High-Traffic Surface-Orbit Transport

Per suggestions, here is the modified 1000-ton shuttle, plus some 
additional goodies.

Rob

- ---

High-Traffic Surface-Orbit Shuttle (TL12)

Length: 90m
			vol	pow	cost	crew
Needle Airframe	1000t	931	 -272	 46	 -
TL12  Thrust Plates 3G	-54	 -756 	189	1.5
TL12 Avionics (civ)	 -2	   -1	  9	 -
TL12 Sensors (basic)	  -	  -13	  7	0.4   A1P3J0
TL12 Comm (basic)	  -	   -1     -	0.4
no weapons
no defenses
no purification plant
Sickbay			 -8	   -1	  5
TL12 Power Plant	-37	 1050	105	1.1

Crew: 	3 engineers with workstations
	1 electronician with workstation
	1 pilot with workstation
	1 medic
	40 stewards

	5 workstations	 -3

Steward Seating		-20
Crew Breakroom		-12

Passenger Accomodations:
   1000 passengers     -500	(includes baggage allotment)  
   10 e.l.b.		-20		 1.0

   Cargo (270t)	       -270
- -------------------------------------------------------------
		          5       +7   MCr 362




High-Traffic Surface-Orbit Cargolifter (TL12)

This is the 1000t shuttle modified to carry cargo.  Without
the steward and passenger requirement (and removing the
breakroom), cargo capacity is set at 825 tons.  If desired, 
this cargolifter *may* be able to carry additional cargo modules
for a corresponding decrease in thrust.  If so, then cargo
capacity increases to a max of 2825 tons.



Moderate-Traffic Surface-Orbit Shuttle (TL12)

Length: 42m
			vol	pow	cost	crew
Needle Airframe 100t	 94	-17.3	 5.1	-
TL12 Thrust Plates 3G	 -6	-84	21 	0.2
TL12 Avionics (civ)	 -2	 -1	 9	-
TL12 Sensors (basic)	  -	-13	 7	0.4   A1P3J0
TL12 Comm (basic)	  -	 -1      -	0.4
no weapons
no defenses
no purification plant
TL12 Power Plant	 -4.3	120	12	0.1


Crew:	1 engineer with workstation
	1 electronician with workstation
	1 pilot with workstation
	1 medic
	4 stewards

	3 workstations	 -1.5

Steward Seating		 -2
Crew Breakroom		 -4

Passenger Accomodations
   100 passengers	 -50	(includes baggage allotment)
   10 e.l.b.		 -20		1.0
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
			   4.2	 3.7  MCr 55



Moderate-Traffic Surface-Orbit Cargolifter (TL12)

This is the 100t shuttle modified to carry cargo, using the
same philosophy as the 1000t shuttle above.  Its carrying 
capacity is 80t.  If desired, this cargolifter *may* be able to 
carry additional cargo modules for a corresponding decrease in 
thrust.  If so, then cargo capacity increases to a max of 280 
tons.


VIP Surface-Orbit Shuttle (TL12)

This is the 100t shuttle modified to carry up to 15 passengers
in staterooms, for those who simply *cannot* travel unless it
is first class all the way.  The ship is modified to carry 5
large staterooms, 10 small staterooms, a lounge, and 20 tons 
of cargo.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:28:25 -0600 ()
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Office 98, Virus, and associated ramblings (was Re: Next Software Project)

>Dom
>(Who shudders to find himself contemplating Office 98 to get access to this...)

Ahh, it ain't so bad. By all accounts, Office 98 for the Mac OS is actually
good and Mac-like....

Although it *is* kinda scary -- like invasion of the body snatchers, or a
real-world Virus. Could that be it? Win 95 is Virus in it's early years?
That would explain all the arcane driver names, incompatibilities, and, of
course ...  <whisper> the deaths.

BTW, did anyone else catch the piece on NPR about astronomers at UC Berkley
postulating anti gravity from new observational data? Do any of the pros on
the list have some more in-depth info about this? On a related note, did
anyone hear about the fusion process discussed on NPR a few weeks back and
it's feasability? IIRC, it postulated allowing fusion at much lower temps.

ObTrav: Umm. Let's see. I was trying to reverse engineer the length from
volume table the other day from FF&S1 (I am waiting for a second, corrected
printing befor buying FF&S2 -- I don't need strange symbols to confuse me
more than I already am). The formula I come up with for the basic spherical
hull is:

(cube root of (volume/4)) X 2

And the formula for surface area I come up with is:

((cube root of volume) squared) X 6

I know I am not a real gearhead, just a poor imitation of one, so I am
quite certain this is incorrect. So please, someone correct me.

Joseph "getting his science news from NPR now ... ack!" Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:39:43 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

>This is draft material from the world generation charts for T4.1
>Specifically, look at the charts for Allegiances and for Milieux. I want to
>fill in the blanks for 
>
>max TL for the milieux.
>starport and base DMs for the milieux
>possible allegiances for the various regions
>(distant sector is intended to support someone creating their own sector on
>the fringes of the known universe).

Going to fill in other allegiances in the chart below:

ALLEGIANCES
Name		Possible Allegiances
Vilani Empire	Vi	-	-	-	Cs	Na
	Ziru Sirka		Zs	-	-	-	-	-
First Contact	Te	In	Vi	-	-	-
Interstellar Wars	Tc	Vi	-	-	-	-
The Rule of Man	Rm	-	-	-	-	-
The Long Night	In	-	-	-	-	Na
Imperium		Im	Zh	As	Va	Cs	Na  Oc  Hv  Kk  De
Rebellion		Im	Du	Ma	St	Zh	Va  Hv  Kk  Da  Zs
The New Era     Re  Rc  Wi  As Hv   Va  Kk
Distant Sector	-	-	-	-	-	-

Racial Allegiances:

Zh - Zhodani Consulate
As - Aslan Hierate
Va - Vargr
Hv - Hive Federation
Kk - K'Kree (or possibly '2k' for '2000 Worlds')
De - Darmine Economic (if you're playing during the suppression campaigns)

Rebellion era:

Du - Dulinor's Faction
Ma - Margaret's Faction
St - Strephon's Imperium
Da - Daibei
Zs - the *NEW* improved Ziru Sirka
(Probably leaving some out)

New Era:

Rc - Reformation Coalition
Re - Regency
Wi - Wilds, unaligned inhabited
Co - Covenant of Sufrain
(for the life of me, I can't remember the name of that pocket empire that the
Reformation Coalition was up against)

Distant Sector info is going to be tough, because the GM will be generating a
sector with attendant populations and such, on their own outside of the
traditional allegiances.

Hope this helps a little.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:54:17 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

I don't want anyone to think I'm running a gadget only campaign, but when
someone asks for a gadget I feel the need to communicate its cpabilities on
paper in a non-ambigous fashion (so I can point out the shortcomings later
on).

These devices are, again, not "supertech", only the logical application of
easily postulated technology.

All these devices tend to be illegal, and will be difficult to obtain,
especially without Streetwise skill.

Audio Listening Devices

At TL12, these tiny devices are a self contained transmitter, receiver,
microprocessor and audio pickup.  The receiver is one frequency, and
capable of receiving only simple codes.  The transmitter is a frequency
agile, low power 5 km radio transmitter.  The microprocessor can store
about 1 hour of data and compress it for transmission.  Data is always
kept, oldest to newest, until the buffer is full at which point the oldest
data is overwritten first.

The item is tiny, but not microscopic.  It is manufactured in several
forms, one looks like a stray clothing fiber (in several colors), another a
small wood twig, another comes with several patches made to look like
painted wall and is essentially flat.  All are designed to be hidden in
various places.  Customers are encouraged to specify custom shapes for
their own use.  If discovered, their function is obvious to anyone with
electronics or streetwise.

The bug has several modes, and can be remotely set to change modes.
Frequently, due to the small range of the transmitter, a relay
communications unit is set up outside the "danger zone" where detection is
likely to piick up and retransmit the signal with a higher power and range.

The different modes include;

Delayed Feed; The bug will store audio data (in digital form) and compress
it at about a 100:1 ratio.  After 1/2 the buffer is full the bug will
'squirt' the compressed data on a predetermined frequency (different every
time).  A 1/2 hour of data can be transmitted in 90 seconds.  A command
override can signal the processor to hold the data for another 10 minutes
in the event that the frequency is being monitored.  This can be repeated
and even may result in the loss of the oldest data whent he buffer capacity
is reached.

Constant Feed; This mode will feed all audio data in real time as it is
received.  The frequency used will change every ten seconds.  This mode is
not considered very safe from detection.

Intermittent Feed; Data is compressed and transmitted once every 15
seconds.  Transmission time is about .15 seconds.  A different frequency is
used each time a burst is sent.

The signal transmitted is broadcast.  Anyone capable of picking up radio
transmissions over a variety of frequencies will be able to intercept the
signal, if within range.  The compression algorithm is usually not a code
system, just a simple data compression scheme which will take any
reasonable computer no time to decode.  Coding the compression is not
difficult, but requires an extra fee or Electronics-4 and a reasonable
electronics lab.

Audio Bug, Cost Cr. 40,000 for kit with 12 bugs, relay transmitter (50km
range) and compression decoding software. Weight; Bugs: Negligable, Relay
transmitter: 1kg, TL12.

Video/Audio Surveillance Device

At TL12, this device is the size of a golfball, and contains a video pickup
with a "fisheye" lens, an audio pickup, and a receiver/transmitter with
10km range.  The function is identical in many ways to the audio device,
including a buffer size of one hour.  Data is always kept, oldest to
newest, until the buffer is full at which point the oldest data is
overwritten first.  It is important to note that the fisheye lens allows
the video pickup to record events in a hemisphere around the device, but at
the expense of some distortion.  A special decoder is used to 'fix' the
image for normal viewing.  Software to do this may be added to any
computer, and is sold seperately by the manufacturer.

The three feed modes available for the audio bug are identical in this
device.  Video is high resolution, and a particular area can be "blown up"
to amazing levels if needed.

The device can be made in several configurations.  One is a false
environment controller that will behave as though it were malfunctioning if
anyone tries to use it.  Another example appears to be a standard fire
suppressant outlet that can be attached to the ceiling in most buildings.
A third example appears to be an empty beverage container of the type
dispensed by vending machines all over the Imperium.  The device can also
be placed behind any transparent panel and any distortion or coloration
will be filtered by the software.

Note that in permanent installations this device can be built as part of an
actual functioning device, and signals processed through the other cable
based data systems so that the device is virtually undetectable by any
means short of a detailed visual search.

Video Bug, Cost Cr. 4000 each (configuration options may add to this),
Weight .1Kg, TL12

Teleoperated Surveillance Drone

This complex robotic device carries three seperate video cameras, two audio
pickups; one general and one directional, is self-mobile, and is operated
remotely.  It is quite small (about softball sized, plus legs and
appendages) and is designed to enter buildings from the outside.

Mobility is provided by six legs and a deployable inflated helium
dirigible.  This small dirigible can be 'packed up' on the back of the
device when not in use,  Two directional fans mounted on either side of the
main body provide a modicum of thrust, but this method of transport is not
very effective in any but the lightest of weather due to the device's lack
of weight and power.  When airborne, the dirigible-mode device travels at
about 5 mph/6 kph.

Legs are small robotic legs.  All power is provided by a battery pack, and
if the device can find a standard wall outlet it can draw power from it to
recharge or run its electronics.  Without recharge the battery can last up
to 2 hours if the device is moving around constantly, or up to 5 days if
the device is in its lowest power consumption mode.  In most situations
there is opportunity for the device to "sneak out" of its hiding place in
the middle of the night and recharge at a standard wall outlet.

A small computer is provided which can carry out some simple tasks
independently (like inserting its power probe into a power outlet, or
retracing its steps).  It is not a robot, however, and most tasks must be
performed by a teleoperator in a remote location.  Some tasks can be
programmed in and stored for later activation.

Various sensors may be added to the basic device, but generally it is comes
with one "fisheye" camera of the type described above, and two independent
video cameras with telephoto lenses for tracking specific subjects.  These
cameras are capable of resolving faces at 2km, and printed text at 500
meters.  One audio pickup is similar to the one above, the other is a
deployable parabolic dish which can pick up discrete conversation as much
as 500 meters away in line of sight.  This item can only be deployed when
in dirigible mode or when the device is not moving.  There are also
sensitive vibration sensors on the ends of the front two legs.  These can
(withthe help of the base computer) classify vibration as footsteps or
vehicle sounds, complete with direction and whether they are approaching or
receding, or they can touch the surface of a window and tap the
conversation on the other side (this can also be done with an optional low
power laser).

The front legs also have a 'pincer', a robotic 'very light arm' that can
manipulate small latches or fasteners.  The device has little power.  This
means that it cannot 'break' a lock or latch except by leverage, and door
latches require a bit too much strength, in general, for it to open.

Another common probe present is a computer communications port connector.
Most standard desktop computers have this type of port, and specialized
software for extracting data throught this port from an unprepared computer
is provided.  A lot of data can be stored on a computer and it may take
some time to transmit it al through the relatively narrow bandwidth of the
radio frequncies used, more likely is that the operator will control the
computer, whichhe or she can do as though they were at the keyboard, and
look through the files on the computer to find what they want.

Thanks to its larger size, this device can hold about 4 hours of video and
audio data in its onboard buffer.  Data is always kept, oldest to newest,
until the buffer is full at which point the oldest data is overwritten
first.

Radio communication up to 10km away is by means of a frequency agile low
power radio communicator.  Signals are compressed and coded and frequency
changes every 5-10 seconds randomly.  The device can enter delayed feed and
intermttent feed modes identical to the bugs above, but it obviously cannot
be controlled in this mode, so must be 'in place' and inactive (except for
data collection of course).

"hermit crab" Data Colection drone, Cost Cr. 12000 each, Weight 2.5 kg, TL 12

Bug Detector/Jammer

This handheld device will detect radio organized transmissions of any power
or frequency and attempt to jam those transmissions with "white noise" to
prevent signals from leaving the area of one room.

In additon to the radio frequency jamming, the device can generate an audio
'spoofing noise' so that a standard audio pickup will not be able to record
the voices of anyone talking quietly within the room.  This will also add
to the vibration of any windows in the room such that those vibrations will
be useless for tapping conversations.

This device will not detect devices which are not transmitting.  It is no
defense against video surveillance.  It will read a room as "clean" in the
presence of non-transmitting listening devices.

Pete

P.S. There needs to be a bit more in the way of spoofing or jamming
equipment.  I can't seem to come up with a way to detect something that's
just 'listenning'.  Any ideas?


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #224
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, February 27 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 225



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)
Re: Making Vilani look easy
Re: WBH Fun
Re: Standardized Cargo
Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)
Re: WBH Fun
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Surveillance Equipment
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
TML .sig
Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)
Re: TML .sig
Surveillance Equipment
Re: Office 98, Virus, and associated ramblings (was Re: Next Software Project)
OFFTOPIC : Loreena McKennit
Re: Standardized Cargo

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:57:47 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

>I wonder if everyone accepts that greatness is measured by how much one
>spends. Again, I don't want to start a war here, but I wonder if, by
>news reports anyway, the people of Iraq consider Sadam as a great person
>and deserving of his SOCial status. He evidently is not *spending* any
>of the money to to alleviate the suffering of the people, but I believe
>he is *spending* on those who keep him in power. Princess Di was noted
>for her humanitarian works, I believe, and not how much she spent,
>although she probably contributed considerably to her causes.

Well, greatness and SOC are two different things entirely.  There are plenty
of people who have a high SOC here on earth who aren't 'great' or in the
limelight.  Although fame is a part of SOC, it isn't the deciding factor.
What SOC is, at least in my campaign, is the network of friends and people you
know, and how powerful they are, and the effects will be different depending
on which career the player chooses.  It also has a bit to do with how one
appears to other people, including etiquette and similar skills.

The higher SOC, the better the chances that one has contacts and people to
help out when the need arises, the lower, the reverse is true.  Low SOC
doesn't just focus on little money.  Indeed, the character could be part of a
rich and powerful family, but has decided to throw off her considerable assets
and powerful friends and family to make a name and life for herself (I had an
ex-girlfriend whose father was the CEO of a very powerful company, although
many people who met her would never guess this from her...  well...  SOC
level.  Lived in a tiny apartment in a pretty nice neighborhood, ate take-out
all the time, held a horrible job, hung out with "the wrong people", etc.).  A
low SOC could mean that the person is shy, or obnoxious, and has trouble
moving in certain crowds, or, it could mean that the person is involved with a
large network of people, but ones that are only able to help out in very
limited ways (again, another friend of mine comes from a rich household where
his mother worked her way up from poverty to become a much-sought after
'industrial' chemist.  The network of people he knows, however, are basically
people that can do 'very little' for him from a Trav point of view, squatters,
noise-musicians, etc.)

The level of abstraction that the SOC attribute has at the moment is a good
thing.  It allows considerable freedom for the GM and the players to build a
character around, without chaining them to a stringent set of rules.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:09:44 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

>    I've always taken it to mean that the world in question just wasn't
>capable of sustaining that TL industry in meaningful quantities but that some
>very small amount of production was possible, and indeed going on, but at
>vastly enhanced costs and construction times.  What I mean is that there
might
>be a batman type guy out on that TL9 world using all sorts of higher tech
>gadgets supported by his corporation (and not necessarily imported) and that
>the Secret Service of said world can probably produce their own TL12 or 13
>gear but probably just enough to equip maybe a couple hundred people.  

With the wide and impressive scale of TLs here on our planet, I think it has
alot to do with industrial infrastructure and availability of raw materials.
For example, in Central and South America the TLs (classic Trav TLs) are
between 4 and 7 or so.  In North America, they stand around 7-9, and that's
just one continent.  

South America can get its hands on plenty of 'nudges' in the right direction
for research, but just doesn't have the infrastructure built up for a number
of different reasons.

There'll be plenty of worlds in the Imperium that just can't get enough steam
to have a high TL, for whatever reason.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:31:56 -0500
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

Pete mentions

>P.S. There needs to be a bit more in the way of spoofing or jamming
>equipment.  I can't seem to come up with a way to detect something that's
>just 'listenning'.  Any ideas?

If you have something which is just listening and is
electronics-based (as opposed to an optical computer), it emits
electronic noise as it operates.  A very small amount, which would
normally get swamped in background, but it's there.

I would expect at a higher tech level than the bug you could construct
a device which emits patterns of sounds and "listens" for electronic
devices which operate in the same pattern (in the same way Tempest, in
theory, pays attention to the electronic emissions of your computer to
tell what you are typing at range).

It might be easier to detect the bug if you already have a sample of
the background without it - if you use your detector on a room, tell
it the room's clean, and then someone adds a bug it'll find it
sooner.  Or you could make the "sweep the empty room first" version a
tech level lower than the "just find the bugs" version.

As more of the bug becomes optical and less remains electronic, this
technique will be harder.  Anyone know if an optical device has
similar emission characteristics?  Perhaps Mr. Robert Meson would help
us there (ref - non-canon thread where "meson guns" fire particles
which aren't what we think of as mesons...).


	- Robert Ringrose
	  ringrose@ascent.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:48:42 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Making Vilani look easy

It just makes me not want to learn Eskimo either.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:32:34 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: WBH Fun

>Kenji Schwarz
 (who else?) writes:
>        Siesta required for convicted criminals.
>
>Isn't this the coolest?

So the Sayat put criminals to sleep.  Why aren't I surprised?

<The sadistic ref giggles as he pictures his players (over)reacting to
their conviction for a parking violation. So much fuss over as tiny
tranquilizer.>

So, do criminals report to the police for an injection?  ARe they
biomonitored to ensure compliance? Subjected to indignities while
unconcious?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:33:21 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo

On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 s.johnson107@genie.geis.com wrote:

>     I've been thinking on how cargo is handled in Traveller.  Especially in
> light of having had the chance to tour a port facility recently.  The entire
> world has switched over to the Container system of cargo transport.  It's
> extremely efficient, very secure and I don't think it would be abandoned on an
> Interstellar scale to return to stevedores and time consuming hand loading of
> Starships.
>     Thus I suspect that the Imperium has a standardized Cargo Container sizes
> on the order of...
snip
> 
>     IF a standardized container system does exist in the Imperium then ships
> will be designed to take advantage of it.  Even down to the glorified pickup
> truck level of the average Free Trader.
> 
> 

absolutely. I was perusing Traders and Gunboats the other day and one of
the ship deckplans has 'standard cargo containers' shown.

However, I suspect there'd be fewer sizes than you're envisioning. Look at
modern containers...there's only a few different sizes, but they're
designed to stack. I suspect there would be 'container containers'
preloaded modules containing 1000 or 100 displacement tons, but those will
be for modular cargo ships.

Things that didn't fit in these containers would be palletized and
shipped as is.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:59:14 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

Peter Brenton wrote:

>                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
>"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
>  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

Can I nominate this for the "best TML .sig/quote of 1998" award?  It's
early in the year, I know, but this is great.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:59:31 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: WBH Fun

Rob Prior wrote:

><The sadistic ref giggles as he pictures his players (over)reacting to
>their conviction for a parking violation. So much fuss over as tiny
>tranquilizer.>

"Why, you've been very naughty indeed!  Goodness gracious, shooting the
bank teller just like that!  I think we need to take a little nap right now
so you're not feeling so cranky."

Yep.  I hadn't thought of this as being for the Sayat, but I can see how it
would appeal to their maternal and school-marmish sides.

>So, do criminals report to the police for an injection?  ARe they
>biomonitored to ensure compliance? Subjected to indignities while
>unconcious?

Nah, it's more fun when they squirm.  Ask any jackbooted thug.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:19:17 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

SemoFetus wrote:
> 
> >I wonder if everyone accepts that greatness is measured by how much one
> >spends. Again, I don't want to start a war here, but I wonder if, by
> >news reports anyway, the people of Iraq consider Sadam as a great person
> >and deserving of his SOCial status. He evidently is not *spending* any
> >of the money to to alleviate the suffering of the people, but I believe
> >he is *spending* on those who keep him in power. Princess Di was noted
> >for her humanitarian works, I believe, and not how much she spent,
> >although she probably contributed considerably to her causes.
> 
> Well, greatness and SOC are two different things entirely.  There are plenty
> of people who have a high SOC here on earth who aren't 'great' or in the
> limelight.  Although fame is a part of SOC, it isn't the deciding factor.
> What SOC is, at least in my campaign, is the network of friends and people you
> know, and how powerful they are, and the effects will be different depending
> on which career the player chooses.  It also has a bit to do with how one
> appears to other people, including etiquette and similar skills.
> 
> The higher SOC, the better the chances that one has contacts and people to
> help out when the need arises, the lower, the reverse is true.  Low SOC
> doesn't just focus on little money.  Indeed, the character could be part of a
> rich and powerful family, but has decided to throw off her considerable assets
> and powerful friends and family to make a name and life for herself (I had an
> ex-girlfriend whose father was the CEO of a very powerful company, although
> many people who met her would never guess this from her...  well...  SOC
> level.  Lived in a tiny apartment in a pretty nice neighborhood, ate take-out
> all the time, held a horrible job, hung out with "the wrong people", etc.).  A
> low SOC could mean that the person is shy, or obnoxious, and has trouble
> moving in certain crowds, or, it could mean that the person is involved with a
> large network of people, but ones that are only able to help out in very
> limited ways (again, another friend of mine comes from a rich household where
> his mother worked her way up from poverty to become a much-sought after
> 'industrial' chemist.  The network of people he knows, however, are basically
> people that can do 'very little' for him from a Trav point of view, squatters,
> noise-musicians, etc.)
> 
> The level of abstraction that the SOC attribute has at the moment is a good
> thing.  It allows considerable freedom for the GM and the players to build a
> character around, without chaining them to a stringent set of rules.
> 
> Semo
Yes. That's about the way I see it as well.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:44:30 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment

>All these devices tend to be illegal, and will be difficult to obtain,
>especially without Streetwise skill.
Hmm. There is a cover story on USA Today featuring a "Nanny cam" for $400
made by "Eye On You" (http://www.carecamera.com, I think). I wouldn't call
the US particularly high law level. There are many circumstances where such
equipment may very legitimately be aquired. Several of my colleagues have
them stuck on their computers. I wouldn't consider them that difficult to
obtain, it is just players are more likely to use them for illegal
activities!

>Audio Listening Devices
>The microprocessor can store about 1 hour of data and compress
>it for transmission.  Data is always kept, oldest to newest,
A better method would be for it to use a variety of compression
algorithyms. You know that JPGs are about 10% the size of GIFs which are
about 10% the size of BMPs. That is because BMPs use no compression. GIFs
use "perfect" compression (i.e. you can uncompress it to exactly the same
as the BMP). JPGs use "lossy" compression (ie you can uncompress it to
something almost exactly the same as the BMP). You can set your JPG writer
to go to even smaller files but at increasing rates of lossyness.
So a cleaner design is that the older the data, the lossier the algorithym
is used. You can test this yourself by reading a WAV file into Media Player
in Windows. When you save you have a number of options which reduce the
quality from CD, to tape, to radio, to telephone. And that isn't even using
compression (WAVs aren't compressed, are they?).
  Also, as audio tends to have a lot of silent bits or repeated background
noise it tends to compress _very_ well.
So, the upshot is, I think you want to revise upward the amount of data
that can be stored and the conditions of it.

>It is manufactured in several forms, one looks like a stray clothing fiber
How about one that is made almost completely of transparent material
of low refractive index? That's sort of a catch-all!

>The bug has several modes, and can be remotely set to change modes.
May I suggest a different method of transmission: that it must be pinged to
do an upload. Ie, it doesn't broadcast until it receives a signal. The send
signal can be disguised as any number of things from public radio
broadcasts to normal electrical powerline noise. This allows for complete
control of it via the base unit and reduces the chances of it burping at
inopportune moments.
Of course bug detectors can exploit this by blasting off several million
commonly used interrogation codes to see if any respond.

>Coding the compression is not
>difficult, but requires an extra fee or Electronics-4 and a reasonable
>electronics lab.
Coding a transmission is _very_ simple. I wouldn't rate it this difficult.
In general, at these tech levels, encryption is just a time-delay, not
foolproof. Bad people with Big Computers will always be able to decript
normal level stuff rather quickly.

>At TL12, this device is the size of a golfball,
The Nanny-Cam is already this size at our tech level. I think we can go
smaller than this at TL12.

>It is important to note that the fisheye lens allows
>the video pickup to record events in a hemisphere around the device, but
at
>the expense of some distortion.  A special decoder is used to 'fix' the
>image for normal viewing.
Or you can just use Paint Shop Pro if you are stuck on a TL8 planet like
ours
or are too cheap to pay for glam add-ons :-).

>Video is high resolution,
Again, applying the staged compression, if you players have missed a few
data pickups, their images might get progressively blurier. Great plot
device.

>a particular area can be "blown up" to amazing levels if needed.
Outside of the realm of monitoring devices, there are a variety of Image
Analysis strategies that can be employed. One of the most intriguing was
using fractals. A fractal is a repeated pattern. Most objects are made up
of reapeated patterns. Fractal analysis involves taking an image and
working out a set of fractals that would generate it. You don't get a
perfect image, but a close match (A commercial system to do this was
developed by Iterated Systems, www.iterated.com, as one of the contended
approaches for HiDef TV. They appear to have some cool demos on their site
but I'm using a Network Computer to browse with at the moment and can't see
them). More interstingly, once you have a picture represented as a set of
equasions you can do wonderful things.
  Like infinate expansion. Any area can be expanded as much as you like. Of
course, if you go far enough, it ends up looking rather like a mandelbrot
set. However it can be good at picking up queues that would otherwise be
lost.
  Another thing is once you identify an object, you can isolate the
equasions representing it, and _remove_ them. The object disapears from the
scene and you just trace the edge equasions to get a view of what is behind
it. Of course, if it completely obscured something it isn't going to work
that out, but things like general terrain topography and building edges
will be drawn.
  Similarly, you can use the extension of edge equasion technique to look
past the edge of a picture to see what is there. I think geologicsts are
using this to "project" downward various rock strata to try to predict
various things.

>Teleoperated Surveillance Drone
Cockroaches have very simple biology. This is useful in two senses. One,
you can build an "electronic roach" without much difficulty which will be
just as agile as the normal critter. A great base for carrying around your
bugs. Two, you can attach a small electrical transmitter and wire it into
the roach's brain (5th Element?) and control its motion. As roaches are
cheap and disposable, it is a fairly cost effective solution. They aren't
as all singing and all dancing as your nifty device, and are subject to
being squashed by rolled up newspapers in places low enough tech to have
them.

>agile frequency
Lets discuss this term. I think what you mean by this is that it can change
what frequency it broadcasts and receives at. In reality this is rather
simplistic and a real system would be rather more complex.
Firstly, it is highly unlikely that anything is going to broadcast
straight. If nothing else a carrier wave of random or innocuous noise (like
electrical equipment hum) will be the main broadcast and the signal will be
encoded into this as fluctuations. Did you read about digital signatures in
GIF picures? Basically a watermark is inserted digially using variations
that are impossibile to detect by eye. This can be used for copy security
or for transmission. You average nudie gif, transmitted all over the know
world in the newsgroup can contain about a page of text. A very nice way to
send hidden messages. Even if someone is looking for such messages, a
simple scrambling algorithym makes it virtually impossible to find.
In the same sense a bug transmitter will encode its signal in whatever
broadcast it sends. Most likely it will monitor its environment to find the
loudest raido noisy object nearby and transmit in the same frequency. The
receiver will just receive all bands at once and look for the encoded
characteristics to work out which one it is broadcasting on. The broadcast
signal can also be spread over a number of different frequencies. If it is
a digital signal, you pump bits 1-4 over one line and 5-8 over another, or
a more random combination changing every few cycles via a pre-determined
flexible algorithym.
Line noise, phone crackle, transformer hum, lightning spikes, etc, are all
random noises occuring in our enviornment that can supply a suitably random
medium to mask a signal. Hell, I even read about one team that was using
the ionisation trails left by meteorites to bounce radio signals off of.

It is really rather a simple matter to choose a complex mathematical
function, apply it to the signal at one end, and apply the inverse at the
other end. There are millions and millions to choose from. As long as the
transmnitter and receiver are in sync you can switch your encoding every
second or two. This makes it very hard to try to decode these.
  Someone trying to foil these is going to be like surfing a breaker.
You've got to grab the signal, follow it up and down the frequency chain,
try to predict where it is going, not get shaken off, all during the short
burst that it transmits on. A rough ride. But role-playable in an abstract
sense, like a jet fighter duel.
  One've you've sussed your enemny. Then you can try to start getting in on
the act and spoofing them by waiting for signals and sending false ones
back.

>Bug Detector/Jammer
>This handheld device will detect radio organized transmissions of any
power
>or frequency
Problem is that any electrical device, from hard disk, to fluorescent
light,  to
clock, generates organised radio tranmissions of a magnitude much higher
than
any bug might.

>jam those transmissions with "white noise"
You don't need to know what frequency something is operating at, though, to
jam it. You just scream along all wavelengths. The problem is that you
"white noise" has to be sufficiently complex so that software cannot
distinguish it and screen it out. Since any such complex signal is going to
have to end up being software generated, it becomes a tech-versus-tech
thing (Even if you hook up a brownian motion device, like a nice hot cup of
tea, to your transmitter you will just get natural chaos, which may be even
easier to interpret and filter than computer generated noise).

>to prevent signals from leaving the area of one room.
You can't prevent them, you can only try to overwhelm them. But, if they
are built to piggyback on top of other signals, you may just be creating
more of a problem.

>the device can generate an audio 'spoofing noise'
One problem is that anything good enough to interfere with recording is
also likely to interfere with speaking!

>This device will not detect devices which are not transmitting.
Tech versus tech again. If you bug can detect the bug-detector, it will
just stop tranmitting till the bug detector goes away.

>There needs to be a bit more in the way of spoofing or jamming equipment.
Look at it like this. Mathematically it is impossible to come up with a
compression algorithym that garuntees that you will have a smaller file at
the end than when you start (because if there was, by recursive application
would reduce the size of anything to one bit!). So there are always some
data patterns that will generate a larger file than you started. A spoofer
can try to exploit this by broadcasting a signal (audio is easy, video may
be my means of a flashing light) that makes life really difficult for most
common compression algorithyms. So, your bug is dutifully trying to save
space by compressing its data but, instead of getting smaller, it is
getting bigger! Now, decent software will work this out and store it
uncompressed, but that's still going to adsorb its memory (ie cut down the
frame rate). The nice thing is that it doesn't even have to be at the same
frequency you are using. Just one that is being recorded. So you can talk
normally, which a either high pitched or low pitched noise warbles in the
background confusing listening devices.
   This isn't as good against lossy compression algorithyms, which are
harder to foil this way as they average things anyhow, but at least might
force them to be a bit blurry. Of course, tech versus tech, more advanced
algorithms can deal with wider conditions.
  So paranoid executive wear might be to have some sort of flashy wristband
or collar that sparkles and flashes in bizzard, hard to compress ways. A
collar unit might listen to what was said by the wearer and broadcast an
inversion signal which imperfectly masks it out (can't be perfect, the
voice would fade in and out). At the same time it tight-beams a laser spot
to the parallel unit on their companion's neck which reinverts the signal
in their filter earpiece and they hear normal, undistorted conversation.
Any monitors, or others in the room, won't hear much. (Of course
lip-reading software and a video will reveal all!)
  If you have reasonable holographic projection a distortion field can be
set up to fuzz someone's appearance. And, in a similar way, both units can
be in communication via uninterceptable tight beam such that the other's
glasses refilter it out.

  The other thing to keep in mind with many of these is tech-blindness.
Sometimes wonderfully high tech gets so self involved that it can be foiled
by simple things. The Janitor might throw away the paper cup you bugged,
the subject might accidentally step on your carpet weevel, the drug dealer
tosses her scarf into a corner on top of your video-cam, or dispite all
your precautions, the maid next store is standing on a chair with her ear
to a glass pressed to the wall.


  Personally, given the many different scientific explanations that we can
see now, and can only guess what the future holds, in my games I just
abandon the specifics and say "you have a TL12 bug" or "you can with your
TL14 scanner". Just leave it as tech-versus-tech.


  The "problem", as most DMs see it, is that if you are expecting to be
listened in on, you can generally prevent it, or make it difficult. However
you can't maintain such perfect secrecy all the time. The most useful
espionage is of and when people don't expect it. Many adventures focus on
"common people" or non-top of the line types. As an "average member of the
population"
 they are almost never going to have means of ensuring their privacy. They
either aren't going to have access to high tech foilers, won't have the
money for them, or won't perceive a need for them. PCs are almost always
going to be able to find out what they want about them.
  The other side of the coin is that PCs are almost always paranoid
bastards. With access, over the course of a campaign, to many different
worlds of different techs, they are going to gear up to the extent that the
DM has to pull out super-tech baddies, or just use fiat to get around their
defenses.
  This means things end up being heavily biased towards the PCs. But, given
the context, this is normal and expected. They are special types of people.
Adventurers. Over time, as their finances mount, they are unlikely to want
to bother on these sorts of jobs, since they don't pay well. It got to the
point in my campaign where the payers just plain weren't interested in
anything that paid in anything measured in less than MCrs. That's when they
start getting the tough jobs, or else things become political. Favours are
priceless from the right people...

          Jo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:07:23 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

In a message dated 98-02-27 11:01:38 EST, you write:

<< >I wonder if everyone accepts that greatness is measured by how much one
 >spends.  >>

The spending requirement for Soc is a drop in the bucket for those who are
truly great. Both Saddam and Diana easily outspend the requirement of Cr250 x
Soc per month (Diana was Princess of Wales, say Soc E = $7,000 per month at
Cr1= $2) (Saddam is about thee same). Both of these people are / were spending
much more than $7,000/month or $85,000 /year.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:16:52 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: TML .sig

>Peter Brenton wrote:
>
>>                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
>>"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
>>  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)
>
>Can I nominate this for the "best TML .sig/quote of 1998" award?  It's
>early in the year, I know, but this is great.

Geez, Thanks.

It was on the inner side of the Loreena McKennit CD ("The Book of Secrets")
insert I bought yesterday, complete with the above spelling of "Traveller",
(she does what Jo Grant calls "The closest to the real thing" in Irish
Imitation style "pop" music) and it really struck a chord in me too.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:53:22 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

You know..I was reading the description of the bugs and I realized
something. 

According to the M0 sourcebook, high tech places like Sylea are
wired up the yingyang..._everything's_ a cell-net gadget, running on low
power relays to the nearest point of entry to the high-speed net. With
this setup you don't _need_ to make things do potentially risky
transmissions, you just tap into the net with your bug. Have the bug send
it's signals encrypted/masked by innocuous traffic ("I'm a
thermostat...ayup, I'm a thermostat...My temperature is now 26.3
degrees...") and you just connect to your new little node on the network
and listen (or watch) away.

You could still do the store and burst transmit mode, but it would be a
lot harder to track.

Now, in places away or shielded from the global net you'll have more
problems, not the least of which that any such place would be more
thoroughly screened as it would be considered a secure location.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:53:14 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: TML .sig

Peter Brenton wrote

>>Can I nominate this for the "best TML .sig/quote of 1998" award?  It's
>>early in the year, I know, but this is great.
>
>Geez, Thanks.
>
>It was on the inner side of the Loreena McKennit CD ("The Book of Secrets")
>insert I bought yesterday, complete with the above spelling of "Traveller",
>(she does what Jo Grant calls "The closest to the real thing" in Irish
>Imitation style "pop" music) and it really struck a chord in me too.

Whoops, sorry!  Casual punning makes you <BEEP!> INELIGIBLE for the coveted
"Coolest TML .sig Award"!!!  Next contestant, please!

<G>

As far as amusing real-world Traveller references, there's always the
Travellers Aid Society.  Which I used to work for.  Three years of
depressing, grim, futile social work.  About as far from the Traveller TAS
as you can POSSIBLY IMAGINE.  Though it'll be fun to run a Trav campaign
with TAS being a sort of homelessness intervention project for sleazy,
shiftless, footloose, drug drug abusing, native-beating hobo characters.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:35:03 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Surveillance Equipment

Jo Grant wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>the device can generate an audio 'spoofing noise'
One problem is that anything good enough to interfere with recording is
also likely to interfere with speaking!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was reading Frank Herbert's novel _Under Pressure_, a war story in a society
that had been in conflict for decades. Some Admirals, Generals and such were
having a high level meeting, and the hero of the story described his physical
discomfort from the anti-evesdropping devices in use. The audio jammers were
making his teeth vibrate and giving him a nasty headache.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:53:44 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Office 98, Virus, and associated ramblings (was Re: Next Software Project)

> ObTrav: Umm. Let's see. I was trying to reverse engineer the length from
> volume table the other day from FF&S1 (I am waiting for a second, corrected
> printing befor buying FF&S2 -- I don't need strange symbols to confuse me
> more than I already am). The formula I come up with for the basic spherical
> hull is:
> 
> (cube root of (volume/4)) X 2
> 
> And the formula for surface area I come up with is:
> 
> ((cube root of volume) squared) X 6
> 
> I know I am not a real gearhead, just a poor imitation of one, so I am
> quite certain this is incorrect. So please, someone correct me.
> 


I think you would use this formula :

surface area = (squared(radius * 2))*3.1415926535897926

For approximate volume = (cubed(radius * 2))*0.5236

for volume of a segment of your spherical ship :

segvol=(0.5336((square root of Height of segment)+3*square root of
radius of base of segment)* height of segment)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:06:12 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: OFFTOPIC : Loreena McKennit

> It was on the inner side of the Loreena McKennit CD ("The Book of Secrets")
> insert I bought yesterday, complete with the above spelling of "Traveller",
> (she does what Jo Grant calls "The closest to the real thing" in Irish
> Imitation style "pop" music) and it really struck a chord in me too.
> 
> Pete

I just got that CD myself not too long ago.  I really love it!

I think my fav track so far is #5, "The highwayman" as it tells a story.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:06:02 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo

s.johnson107@genie.geis.com writes:
>
>    I've been thinking on how cargo is handled in Traveller.  Especially in
>light of having had the chance to tour a port facility recently.  The entire
>world has switched over to the Container system of cargo transport.  It's
>extremely efficient, very secure and I don't think it would be abandoned on an
>Interstellar scale to return to stevedores and time consuming hand loading of
>Starships.
>
>    Thus I suspect that the Imperium has a standardized Cargo Container sizes

Already done.

In MegaTraveller Journal #3 on page 28 we find the equipment sheet for
"Cargo Container (sealed)".
Displacement for all is 54kL, with TLs varying from 5 (soft steel) to 12
(superdense), and mass dropping from 11 tonnes to 2.3 tonnes. Cost is Cr
8700.


Quoting from the description section:

"Containerization is  a major revolution in freight handling. Instead of
loading a shipment directly into the hold aof a ship, all goods in a
particular shipment are placed in one or more standard-sized containers.

"Cargo handling becomes much easier, as only a few containers of standard
sizes must be moved, instead of many with widely varying dimensions. This
is particuylarly important at lower tech levels, when cargo handling
robots and equipment are less versatile.

"All tech 10+ units come with an integral control plate. This allows
merchants to enter the containers' manifest, for easy reference, lock and
unlock the unit, activate and monitor the container's security seals, as
well as monitor internal conditions. Access to the containers is usually
restricted by use of card readers or key codes."


An excellent design (says the author, modestly).  Although DGP only
published the 54kL size, I designed many more. Easy to do, using the
design rules.  

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #225
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 226



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Standardized Cargo
Re: Standardized Cargo
Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)
Third iteration: Surface-Orbit Shuttles
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)
GURPS Traveller Page
TAS/JTAS
(Long, sorry) - Re: Jim L - Re: Fusionpowerplants - why refuel?
Stray Thoughts on Imperium Games, Traveller, and the "good ole days"
World/System Generation Tables
Re: Office 98, Virus, and associated ramblings (was Re: Next Software Project)
re: TML .sig

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:09:33 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets

Simon Early writes:
>I suspect that Imperial Squadrons is based on 5th Frontier War 
>algorithms, which is fine for the Imperium in 1100, but far too boring 
>for the threatening stance of a pocket Empires campaign.

It is.  The solution may be simple. Allow a world to trade SDB factors for
squadron factors at some standard rate. Thus, a 'peaceful' world could
keep it's SDBs, while a world bent on conquest would manufacture war
fleets instead of defenses.

We just need to set the 'exchange rate' ...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:46:54 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

At 03:07 PM 2/27/98 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-02-27 11:01:38 EST, you write:
>
><< >I wonder if everyone accepts that greatness is measured by how much one
> >spends.  >>
>
>The spending requirement for Soc is a drop in the bucket for those who are
>truly great. Both Saddam and Diana easily outspend the requirement of Cr250 x
>Soc per month (Diana was Princess of Wales, say Soc E = $7,000 per month at
>Cr1= $2) (Saddam is about thee same). Both of these people are / were
spending
>much more than $7,000/month or $85,000 /year.

This actually points up another problem - the frequency of social standing.

If it is indeed the case that the average person is Soc. 7, and that 1
person in 36 is soc. 12, then we have an awful lot of nobility - roughly
the upper 10% of society is running around as knights or better, and the
amount of income they have is pretty minimal.  This does not mesh with the
power these people represent in theory.

Assuming, instead that only player characters have that fraction of the
people at Imperial Knight rank, then things get easier - one person in 36
is merely the top 2.7% of standing and income, and noble ranks are
immeasurably above that.  FWIW, I get that England had on the order of one
person in a hundred anywhere near the noble ranks, which maps to Soc.
10-12, given that many of those people in that top 1% for much of its
history were mere intendants.  Presently, there are on the order of one
person in a thousand or one person in ten thousand, depending on which
almanac you read.

Further, it does not take that much wealth to be spending at the Soc. 15
level, which seems a bit out of whack - every Tom, Dick, and lawyer should
not be at the maximum spending level.  Spending is very, very nonlinear in
the tails in the real world.  A more realistic, but hard to model, system
would work like this:

1. Determine the fraction of society at a given SOC level
2. Determine the average spending of that fraction
3. Make a table in the rules that correspond.  I posted one built off of
last year's census figures a year ago, and can likely find it again if
anyone wants it.
4.  Nobles should be pretty far off any scale that includes a normal person.

Point 4 comes as Forbes could only find 300 people in the world with more
than 350 million in net assets, and corresponding returns on their wealth.
This is an easy thousand times the income of the average person, and is
likely similar to the income grades possessed by the average Baron and
above.  Baronets and knights are perhaps a fifth as much.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:43:47 -0600
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo

<s.johnson107@genie.geis.com> wrote:

>     I've been thinking on how cargo is handled in Traveller.  Especially in
> light of having had the chance to tour a port facility recently.  The entire
> world has switched over to the Container system of cargo transport.  It's
> extremely efficient, very secure and I don't think it would be abandoned on an
> Interstellar scale to return to stevedores and time consuming hand loading of
> Starships.

This is a topic that comes up from time to time around here.  As Joe Pettit
mentioned, cargo containers have shown up in Traveller; one of the earliest
books of ship deckplans (Traders and Gunboats) showed them with the Type R
Sub Trader design.  Those were three-meter wide by three-meter tall by six-
meter long containers holding just under four displacement tons of cargo.
That would make them roughly equivalent to the modern twenty-foot container.

If you've seen my THUDDD entries, you'll notice references to six-meter
containers.  A number of us have also proposed a slightly larger five
displacement ton container.  We noticed that mail comes in five-ton lots
and that you *must* set aside five tons for it; the easiest assumption is
that someone loads a sealed five-ton container of mail aboard.  I call
these "seven seventy-sevens" because they're 3 x 3 x 7.77 meters, and
assume that they're also available for general use, if less common.

The other obvious size, at least in Solomani space, would be an equivalent
to the forty-foot container, a twelve-meter container that would hold just
under eight displacement tons of cargo.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 98 17:31:10 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo

On 02/27/98 at 02:28 PM,  Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com said:

>>Thus I suspect that the Imperium has a standardized Cargo Container sizes

>In my universe containers are 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16 tons. Easier to fill gaps
>in ships.

About the same here, but not as much variety. 

  1 ton (2x3x2.33m) 
  2 ton (3x3x3.11m)
  5 ton (5x5x2.8m)

All containers designed to fit into, and through, standard 3.5m deck
heights and cargo hatchs, are stackable and have interlocks for use in
deeper cargo holds. The standard containers have CG float pads,
environmental controls, and are sealable during shipment. 

Larger and irregular cargos are palletized, wrapped in protective sheeting
and shipped as is.  CG float pallets are carried aboard ships for this
purpose.

Ships working on or beyond the frontier often have deal with non-standard
containers and even bagged and loose cargo. Ships carry "knock-down"
container bin components they can assemble to hold non-containerized cargo,
then break down for compact storage. This sort of cargo is often loaded and
unloaded the "old fashioned" way with stevedores and sweat.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 00:16:40 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:54:04 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Oops!  I just thought of something (after re-reading my previous post).
> > This would only apply to self-seeking missiles.  Missiles steered via the
> > mothership would communicate via a laser and a sensor mounted in the tail
> > of said missile (thereby putting the sensor out of range of enemy fire).
> > Of course, with the delay in communication over the beam, the target may
> > not be where you think it is by the time the missile receives the "turn
> > left 0.2 degrees" command...
> 
> Which is why you just tell the missile your best data on the course,
> speed, and likely future maneuvers so that it can figure the course
> change on it's own.

But then the missile would need sensors mounted on its nose so that it can
calculate these course changes.  Now were back to square one (ie: the
sensors on the nose are extremely vulnerable to laserfire).





James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: 27 Feb 1998 19:19 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Third iteration: Surface-Orbit Shuttles

Okay, I modified passenger seating size and passenger/cargo
ratios.  I also worked out capacity numbers for downports.

Rob

- ----------------------

Surface-Orbit Shuttles

Large shuttles are needed on high capacity ground starports...
Groundports which see 2,000,000 passengers per week must handle
300,000 passenger arrival+departures per day, 150,000 passengers
each way -- about 6000 passengers one way per hour.

PASSENGER TABLE

Weekly  Daily   Hourly          Monthly         Yearly
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
100 M    14 M   600 k           400 M              5 B
 10 M   1.4 M    60 k            40 M            500 M
  1 M   140 k     6 k             4 M             50 M
100 k    14 k   600             400 k              5 M
 10 k   1.4 k    60              40 k            500 k
  1 k   140       6               4 k             50 k
100      14       1             400                5 k
 10       1       -              40              500
  1       -       -               4               50

Passenger/Cargo Shuttles (passengers/cargo)                     Park-  Multi-
Per Hour        1000t (200/760)  100t (16/72) 100t VIP (30/20)  Bays   DownP's
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
600k / 2.4 M    2916             300          400               329     y
200k / 800k      974             100          133               110     y
100k / 400k      487              50           67                55     y
60k  / 240k      292              25           40                33     y
40k  / 160k      194              25           27                23     y
20k  / 80k        95              25           14                13     y
10k  / 40k        49              14            7                 7     y
8k   / 32k        39              14            6                 6     y
6k   / 24k        28              14            4                 5     y
5000 / 20k        23              25            4                 5     y
4000 / 16k        19              14            3                 4
3000 / 12k        14              14            2                 3
2000 / 8k         10               4            2                 2
1500 / 6k          7               8            1                 2
1000 / 4k          5               4            1                 1
600  / 2400        3               4            1                 1
400  / 1600        2               4                              1
200  / 800         1               4                              1     n
100  / 400                         8                              1     n
60   / 240                         4                              1     n
30   / 120                         3                              1     n
1    / 4                           1                              1     n

MULTIPLE DOWNPORT RATIONALE

A starport may have up to (say) 5 landing strips; this limits the number
of arrivals per hour.  If ships arrive 6 per hour per strip, then
5 airstrips puts the maximum at 30 shuttles per hour.  If ships
can land every 5 minutes, this number doubles to 60 shuttles per
hour.  Let's say, then, the ceiling is 9 shuttles per hour per strip.
5 airstrip starports can accept 45 shuttles per hour.



High-Traffic Surface-Orbit Modular Shuttle (TL12)

One-way ticket price: Cr100; With courier discount: Cr25
Length: 90m
Needle Airframe 1000t   931      -272    46      -
TL12  Thrust Plates 3G  -54      -756   189     1.5
TL12 Avionics (civ)      -2        -1     9      -
TL12 Sensors (basic)      -       -13     7     0.4   A1P3J0
TL12 Comm (basic)         -        -1     -     0.4
no weapons
no defenses
no purification plant
Sickbay + Medic          -8        -1     5
TL12 Power Plant        -37      1050   105     1.1

Crew:   3 engineers with workstations
        1 electronician with workstation
        1 pilot with workstation
        5 workstations   -3
- ------------------------------------------------------------
                        827        +7  MCr 360

Passenger Module:
   8 stewards     (4t)
   Large breakroom(4t)
   200 passengers (50t)  <--- 3 cubic meters per passenger+baggage
   4 e.l.b.       (8t)
   -------------------------------------------------
                        -66            MCr 0.5 or so

Cargo Module:
   760 tons cargo      -760
- -------------------------------------------------------------
                          1       +7   MCr 362




Large Surface-Orbit Cargolifter (TL12)

This is the 1000t shuttle modified to carry cargo.  Without
the steward and passenger requirement (and removing the
breakroom), cargo capacity is set at 825 tons.  If desired,
this cargolifter *may* be able to carry additional cargo modules
for a corresponding decrease in thrust.  If so, then cargo
capacity increases to a max of 2825 tons.



Moderate-Traffic Surface-Orbit Shuttle (TL12)

One-way ticket price: Cr100; With courier discount: Cr25
Length: 42m
Needle Airframe 100t     94     -17.3    5.1    -
TL12 Thrust Plates 3G    -6     -84     21      0.2
TL12 Avionics (civ)      -2      -1      9      -
TL12 Sensors (basic)      -     -13      7      0.4   A1P3J0
TL12 Comm (basic)         -      -1      -      0.4
no weapons
no defenses
no purification plant
TL12 Power Plant         -4.3   120     12      0.1


Crew:   1 engineer with workstation
        1 electronician with workstation
        1 pilot with workstation
        1 medic
        3 workstations   -1.5
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
                         80.2    3.7  MCr 54

Passenger Module
   1 steward     (2t)
   16 passengers (4t)  <--- 3 cubic meters per passenger+baggage
   1 e.l.b       (2t)
   ------------------------
                         -8

Cargo Module
   72 t                 -72

- ---------------------------------------------------------------
                          0.2    3.7  MCr 54




Moderate-Traffic Surface-Orbit Cargolifter (TL12)

This is the 100t shuttle modified to carry cargo, using the
same philosophy as the 1000t shuttle above.  Its carrying
capacity is 80t.  If desired, this cargolifter *may* be able to
carry additional cargo modules for a corresponding decrease in
thrust.  If so, then cargo capacity increases to a max of 280
tons.


VIP Surface-Orbit Shuttle (TL12)

One-way ticket price: Cr500; No courier service.
This is the 100t shuttle modified to carry up to 30 passengers
in staterooms, for those who simply *cannot* travel unless it
is first class all the way.  The ship is modified to carry 5
large staterooms, 10 small staterooms, a lounge, and 20 tons
of cargo.  All staterooms may be shared, and usually are.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 98 18:33:51 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

On 02/27/98 at 02:46 PM,  Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
said:

>This actually points up another problem - the frequency of social
>standing.

>If it is indeed the case that the average person is Soc. 7, and that 1
>person in 36 is soc. 12, then we have an awful lot of nobility - roughly
>the upper 10% of society is running around as knights or better, and the
>amount of income they have is pretty minimal.  This does not mesh with the
>power these people represent in theory.

That's a point to consider.

If you *really* want to get specific, then represent classes 1 through 11
as lower and middle and lower-upper classes.  A SOC roll of 2 through 11
maps to classes 2 through 11.  During a career a PC can drop to 1 or 0, but
won't begin there.  A roll of 12 allows a 1d6 roll for the upper non-noble
classes 12 through 16 and nobility (beginning at 17).  If the player rolls
a 6 on the second roll, he rolls another 1d6 for his noble rank, 17 through
22.

 2      Lower Lower
 3      Lower
 4-5    Upper Lower
 6-7    Lower Middle
 8-9    Middle
 10-11  Upper Middle
 12-13  Lower Upper 
 14-15  Upper
 16     Upper Upper
 
 Noble Classes
  17     Baron/Baroness
  18     Viscount/Viscountess
  19     Earl
  20     Marquis/Marquise
  21     Count/Countess
  22     Duke/Duchess

 Imperial Classes
  23     Archduke/Archduchess
  24     Prince/Princess
  25     Emperor/Empress

The title, Knight would be an honorary rank conferred on an non-noble of
accomplishment and repute.  A non-noble raised to nobility would generally
be for just his/her lifetime and would be called a Baronet. To be a
Baron/Baroness the noble would have to hold an inherited title.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:57:12 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

At 11:31 AM 2/27/98 -0500, Robert Ringrose wrote:
>As more of the bug becomes optical and less remains electronic, this
>technique will be harder.  Anyone know if an optical device has
>similar emission characteristics?  Perhaps Mr. Robert Meson would help
>us there (ref - non-canon thread where "meson guns" fire particles
>which aren't what we think of as mesons...)

Mr. Meson might have one tool to help us: if Mesons are truly not affected
by normal matter, then they are likely not going to be a great tool to find
such bugs.  If, on the other hand, they are affected, if only in the same
way neutrinos are, then they might make a very nice deep radar or
densitometer.

As far as making such bugs, Traveller does not mention a new technology
beyond holographic, which comes in at TL 13 or so.  Meson storage might be
a good candidate, as circuitry made of it might not even be visible or
detectable until it phase changes the answer into a form we can see.

All machines are going to have some leakage.  Light waves are, after all,
quite small electric and magnetic fields propagating through space.  Good
luck detecting them, but they are there.  More promising, one of the most
common ways to generate the light which is trundling around your equipment
is going to be with accelerated charged particles, and this can usually be
detected by the spillover in other frequencies.

Given that the electronic emissions of standard electricity-run circuitry
is going to be dropping due to the wide use of superconductors, I suspect
these two will eventually reach some kind of minimum, and it feels to me
like that minimum is going to be set more by the physical properties of the
system and the total amount of power being used.

After all, you still need to send the data out some way, and it is probably
easier to detect the strong signal you are trying to send than the weak
signal the apparatus generates.  This will remain true, even if it uses
infrastructure already in place to send the signal, as then you can monitor
your own signal.

As a counter argument to the noise being noticeable, an article in
Scientific American this month pointed out some incredibly tiny lasers
being built.  These little monsters are of the "smaller than a hair" scale,
IIRC.  My oh my, we may see those optical computers sooner than I thought.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 01:21:16 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: GURPS Traveller Page

Just read the TNS articles and I'm impressed..... keep it up Loren!

Loren: Out of curiousity, was Dulinor still planning the assassination? If
you don't feel at liberty to disclose this I'll understand! (Plot hook for
a scenario perhaps?) ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:10:37 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: TAS/JTAS

Kenji said:

>As far as amusing real-world Traveller references, there's always the
>Travellers Aid Society.  Which I used to work for.  Three years of
>depressing, grim, futile social work.  About as far from the Traveller TAS
>as you can POSSIBLY IMAGINE.  Though it'll be fun to run a Trav campaign
>with TAS being a sort of homelessness intervention project for sleazy,
>shiftless, footloose, drug drug abusing, native-beating hobo characters.

Were you aware that we (GDW) were once contacted by the terrestrial Traveler's
Aid Society? About the JTAS. Something about our not using it for legal
reasons... : )

The phone call came three weeks after we got the papers back for the trademark
registration. I told the guy to do a PTO search and get back to me. Never
heard from them again.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:08:20 -0800
From: jfpinder <jfpinder@gte.net>
Subject: (Long, sorry) - Re: Jim L - Re: Fusionpowerplants - why refuel?

> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:47:46 -0500
> From: "Jim L"
> Subject: Re:Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?
>
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:15:24 -0800
> From: jfpinder
> Subject: Traveller Fusion Powerplants - why refuel?
[snip]
> >9.  It's late, I'm tired, and I have probably made mistakes in my
> >calculations.  Feel free to correct any you find. :)
>
> >I don't see why fusion powerplants should need to be refueled more
> >than once a decade, or even less often.  Enough fuel can be built into
> >the powerplant to power it for decades, or even centuries.
>
> The major consumer of fuel is not the main power plant, it is the jump
> drive. A 100 ton ship consumes 140 m^3 of fuel per parsec. That's 140,000
> liters(by your figure for the ratio) . Also, did your calcs on mass to
> energy take into consideration the fact that 16/20 of the mass of D2O is
> the O atom?(Atomic wt O (16) + 2 * Atomic Wt D( 2) I presume that the O
> molecules are waste in the Fusion plant (or do we have a really funky
> reaction where we get He(D+D), Flourine(O+D) and Sulfur(O+O) as O and D
> atoms fuse at random? I know very little about the real dynamics of
> fusion.)
> Jim L

First, remember, I am just becoming acquainted with Traveller, so I
don't have a terribly complete grasp of all the rules and
regulations.  I would also refer you to my Presumption #9 (above), as
it still holds true. :)

Right, well, the mass given was for bi-deuteriated (or is it di- ?, I
forget . . .) water (D2O), of which 1 mole would mass 20g - 4g of this
is deuterium (2 deuterium atoms per water molecule).  These two
deuterium atoms are the "fuel" for the fusion reaction 2D ->fusion-> 1
He, with a mass deficiency of 0.306 AMU - the mass deficiency is the
amount of matter converted into energy.  When separated by
electrolysis, each mole of bi-deuteriated water would yield 0.5 moles
of O2, and 1 mole of D2.  The mole of D2 would presumably be separated
into 2 moles of free deuterium (just D all by itself).  These 2 moles
of D would then be used in the fusion reaction, and yes, the oxygen is
just a waste produce of the fuel preprocessing and would not be
introduced into the fusion chamber.  The two moles of D ->fusion-> 1
mole He, plus 0.306 AMU (the mass deficiency) x (6.02 x 10^23
particles per mole He) converted to energy.  

Water is a good storage medium for deuterium, as deuterium is
significantly easier to store attached to oxygen (as water, D2O) than
it would be as deuterium gas (D2).  The power requirements for
electrolytically seperating the D from the O would be insignificant
compared to the power output from the fusion reaction.

Now, the mass given, 22.9g per year for a 1000 Mw powerplant at 100%
efficiency - was for water (D2O, the storage medium), not for
deuterium needed (D, the fuel).  The deuterium would account for 20%
(4/20) of this mass, or 4.58g of deuterium per year, at 100%
efficiency.  The efficiency figure of 0.1% was used as an extremely
low efficiency estimate to underscore the fact that fusion powerplants
would not be likely to need refueling very often, even if they were
extremely inefficient in terms of power production (due to containment
field generation, or whatever type of power overhead they may carry).  

Primarily, I had a difficult time with the fuel volume requirements of
the Fusion and Fusion+ powerplants in the Central Supply Catalog. 
Fusion plants (TL12, 2.0 Mw) are listed as needing 0.003 cubic meters
of fuel per 100 hours of operation (or 3 liters) - if this is 0.013
moles of D2 gas or 0.052g - which would yield 0.013 moles of He,
0.0002g converted to energy (I think this is correct, double check) -
which would yield 5000 Mw hours at 100% efficiency.  Efficiency ->
100/5000 x 100 = 0.2% efficiency - or twice as efficient as my
presumption. Were this deuterium stored as bi-deuteriated water
(liquid) instead of as D2 gas, it would need about 0.026 ml of volume,
and mass about 0.26g - so to provide 10 years worth of fuel, you would
need 228g of D2O, and  roughly 228 ml of volume.  Basically, if the
volume listed is for D2 gas, then it is reasonable, but of it is for
bi-deuteriated water (the most likely storage medium), then is is an
unreasonably large volume.

The Fusion+ list the fuel needs as 150 liters of water per 100 hours
for a TL12 4.8 Mw plant.  If this is just normal water, and the
powerplant must separate the deuterium from the normal hydrogen then
this might be reasonable - but my point was that if the deuterium was
built in at the time of powerplant fabrication, refueling would be
unneeded - at least not very often. 

I have not gotten to the jump drive fuel requirements yet, so I can't
comment on them.

For the record, I am NOT a nuclear physicist (which is doubtlessly
quite obvious),

John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:45:29 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Stray Thoughts on Imperium Games, Traveller, and the "good ole days"

First this isn't a complaint (really!!), it's just some thoughts on the
difference between CT and T4, or maybe GDW's handling of CT in those early
days, and IG handling today.

One of the things I distictly remember aboutthe early days of Trav was the
abundence of background, but not in the form of Worldbooks or suppliments.
GDW built the Traveller background more by publishing scenarios. By far the
majority of material published was the adventure, or double adventure. Of
course each of these items contained a sizable section that was made up of
background (i.e. Library Data, world discriptions, etc.) but it was wrapped
in an adventure. A lot of the suppliments published for Traveller back then
were compilations of the background data pulled from the adventures.

On the other hand IG seems intent on filling the shelves with suppliments.
Oh, I know they've published adventures, but the majority of their published
works has been in the form of suppliments. While this is a welcomed addition
to the Trav universe, I , for one miss the adventures that were the mainstay
of the CT era.

I'm not quite as much of a heretic as Eris, but my campaign is enough apart
from mainstream Canon that a lot of the info in the suppliments is only
partially useful. Adventures are ALWAYS usefull, especially when background
is included. You can pick or choose from the background and modify the
adventures to fit your own settings.

Oh, well, enough rambling! I appologise but I've just been sitting here
racking my brain for an idea for tomarrow night and wising I had back all
this LBB adventures that I lost.

Loren, if your out there, please remind SJG that the adventures are as
important as the Worldbooks! It'd be nice to see some of the GDW style of
"background as background to an adventure" style books published again.

Mike (Feeling Nostalgic) Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:33:04 -0500
From: "Peter L. Berghold" <PeterB@Cyber-Wizard.Com>
Subject: World/System Generation Tables

Hi Folks,

This is probably a dumb question, but I'll ask anyway...

Is there a web site out there somewhere where I can glomb a good set of
tables for world/system generation?

Peter L. Berghold -- Unix Curmudgeon at Large
http://www.monmouth.com/~peterb mailto: PeterB@Cyber-Wizard.Com
"Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
(just ask any high school student.)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:16:03 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Office 98, Virus, and associated ramblings (was Re: Next Software Project)

At 09:28 AM 27/02/98 -0600, you wrote:

>Joseph "getting his science news from NPR now ... ack!" Dietrich
>yikes@evansville.net
>
What's NPR?



- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:08:13 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: TML .sig

"Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:

>KS>Can I nominate this for the "best TML .sig/quote of 1998" award?  It's
>>early in the year, I know, but this is great.
>
>Geez, Thanks.
>
>It was on the inner side of the Loreena McKennit CD ("The Book of Secrets")
>insert I bought yesterday, complete with the above spelling of "Traveller",


Hey.... that *is* the correct English spelling of "Traveller".

Just because you gentlemen speak American! ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #226
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, February 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 227



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Feeling stupid and asking for help
Re: Character Generation and Social Levels
GURPS TNS
Loren, are you there?
T4.1 rules inconsistencies
Re: Next Software Project
Re: Office 98, Virus, and associated ramblings (was Re: Next
Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies
Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies
Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies
Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies
re: Imperial Squadrons and Pocket Empires
Re:  rocket sizes (was starport eco)
Re: GURPS TNS
IG Info
Re: Loren, are you there?
Re: Loren, are you there?
Re: SSDS Structure Factors
Re: Planetary Meson Guns
Re: Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets
Re: Standardized Cargo

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:31:40 +0400
From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: Feeling stupid and asking for help

Feeling stupid... The other day I had a head crash on my server, and of course 
the disc that went down contained all the really useful stuff that I had 
accumulated over the past couple of years - Traveller, Harpoon, Tacops etc. And 
no, I didn't have a backup (that's why I feel so stupid - do as I say, not do 
as I do)

Anyway, I've got my machine off it's back and onto (at least) it's knees, and 
I'm starting to look around to try and find all the stuff that I lost. A couple 
of cases in point:-
1. I know that mpgn.com archives old TML digests, but is there a SEARCHABLE 
archive anywhere?
2. I had a set of sector files in Galactic format, with file names like 
'asects.***'. Can't find them on the web, does anyone know where I might find 
them again?
3. Beyond Galactic, can anyone recommend a good Sector mapping program? World 
mapping program?
4. I've found Antti Lahtinnen's (sp?) starship spreadsheets, are there any 
other good ones around?

That should do for now. Hope there's some help out there.

Andy


- ------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Long			andylong@emirates.net.ae
C/o ICL			andyl@icluae.co.ae
PO Box 7237			+971 (50) 641 8232 (Mobile)
Abu Dhabi			+971 (2) 274688 (Res/Fax)
United Arab Emirates	+971 (2) 335200 (Office)
- ------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:29:21 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Character Generation and Social Levels

>> Social Standing indicates social class and the level of society from which the
>> character comes.
>
>Interesting stuff, but it doesn't give an indication of what occupation 
>fits into what class.  Where do soldiers fit, for instance, or 
>mercenaries?  Are pilots more highly thought of than teachers, or doctors?

	Depends on the local culture. It's nice to know that, according to the last survey I saw, military officers are held in higher esteem in US society than, for example, Congresscritters ... but I bet 30 years ago that wasn't true.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:21:19 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: GURPS TNS

Dom Said:

> Just read the TNS articles and I'm impressed..... keep it up Loren!

[Joke coming up! No one take this next line seriously!] 
Nah! I think I'll stop now. This isn't fun any more. : p
[Thank you for your cooperation. We return you to the normal message.]

>Loren: Out of curiousity, was Dulinor still planning the assassination? If
>you don't feel at liberty to disclose this I'll understand! (Plot hook for
>a scenario perhaps?) ;-)

Plot hook for a scenario? I am not at liberty to disclose this because it is
the _plot hook for have the ferschluginer line!_

Was Dulinor still planning the assassination? Was Dulinor himself
assassinated, and if so, by who? Was the bomb (if such it was) intended to
kill Dulinor or someone else on the gig? Was it a bizzare coincidence? Was
Dulinor even on the gig to begin with? How many angels can dance on the head
of a pin? What happened at Roswell? Is Hitler dead, or is he really Dulinor?
What is Varian up to, and is he going to be as much of a troublemaker as his
brother? What is the final Seinfeld going to be like? If this is my
thermometer, where the heck is my pen? Who put the tribbles in the
quadrotriticale? What are the names of the Spice Girls, and who the hell cares
anyway (lessee...Posh...Sporty...Scarey...Slutty...
Sleezy...Bashful...uh...Doc...Dopey...uh...Dasher...Dancer...Donner &
Blitzen.)

<FNORD ON>
Loren needs his dosage adjusted -- he's beginning to ramble, and he's starting
to fixate on lists of unconnected questions again. Focus! Focus!
<FNORD OFF>

Loren WIseman
    SJG Emigre
    GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:46:50 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Loren, are you there?

Mike (Feeling Nostalgic) Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

>Loren, if your out there, please remind SJG that the adventures are as
>important as the Worldbooks! It'd be nice to see some of the GDW style of
>"background as background to an adventure" style books published again.

"If your (sic) out there" ??? Have I vanished again and no one told me? I
_hate_ it when that happens! : )

Not to be trite, but "that was then, this is now." The world is no longer the
same place it was when Traveller was young and dinosaurs weren't confined to
zoos. 
The feeling among marketing types in the game biz is that these days, you
can't give adventures away, whereas sourcebooks and world books sell like
hotcakes (well, relatively -- the RPG market is in a doldrums right this
minute). Unless that changes, the current plan is for a "sourcebook with
adventure material included, and encourage adventures in Pyramid" approach.

Loren K for Keith Wiseman
     SJG Emigre
     GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:58:57 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: T4.1 rules inconsistencies

One of my players, who's far more observant that I, noticed a couple of
things about the
T4.1 rules Marc's been kind enough to share with us.

In the document 'Trav 4.1 Skill List", there is a line that says:

     Record Cluster skills with the cluster parent in parentheses (like
this) in order to note that the other skills within the cluster are
available at one level less.

However, in the document "Trav 4.1 Skill Text", the definition for
Cluster skills clearly states:

     Although the five skills are related (which is why they are
consolidated into a cluster), they are independent. Expertise in a skill
within such a cluster does not give a character any ability in any other
skills under that same heading. Each skill must be learned separately.

In that same document, the Cascade skill concept seems to fit what is
mentioned in the "Trav 4.1 Skill List" document. Which one is right?

My player also mentioned that there is no reference to Energy Weapons
skills, Laser Weapons, etc. What happened to those skills?

Finally, I've noticed a discrepancy between the Brawling task as stated
in the definition for Brawling skill, and the task as stated in the
document "Trav 4.1 Tasks". In the former, the lowest roll wins. The
latter uses the highest roll for the winner. Which is right?

- --
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:34:21 +0000
From: Marc Davison <marc.davison@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: Next Software Project

Rob Prior wrote:
> 
> I emailed this to a few people, but no responses. I suspect the they may
> not have received the message - parts of the Inetrnet are slowly becoming
> inaccessible (hi Dom! hi Andy! hi Marc!).
> 
> I'm trying to decide on my next programming project.  Please cast your
> votes for:
> 
> 1) QSDS (Mac/PC) - as it says
> 
> 2) Metator (Mac, PC a long way away) - system detailing and mapping
> 
> 3) Cartos (Mac, PC a way away) - sector/empire mapping and generation
> 
> 4) FFS2 (both Mac/PC a way away) - as it says
> 
<Snip>

Another thought for a project is something I have started, that is a
Trade & Commerce Utility, works out all those numbing numbers/dice rolls
that usually only need attention during a game session.

I'm not trying to steal your thunder Rob, but since the subject has been
broached, I would like to know what sort of interest there is in a
Trading utility, or has it already been done.

Marc (not Miller)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:36:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: Office 98, Virus, and associated ramblings (was Re: Next

> 
> At 09:28 AM 27/02/98 -0600, you wrote:
> 
> >Joseph "getting his science news from NPR now ... ack!" Dietrich
> >yikes@evansville.net
> >
> What's NPR?

National Public Radio... sorta like the Beeb, only not.

It's one of the American public radio companies; they subsist on grants 
from corporations, interested parties, public contributions, and 
government subsidy.

Actually, Science Friday on Talk of The Nation is pretty good; I wish I 
was on the road  when it's on so I can listen to it more often. 

Of course, for hard science fact, it's a little light, but it at least 
provides some interesting pointers on things to look out for or go and 
research.

Scott taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:29:12 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies

In a message dated 98-02-28 13:14:01 EST, you write:

<< 
 In the document 'Trav 4.1 Skill List", there is a line that says:
 
      Record Cluster skills with the cluster parent in parentheses (like
 this) in order to note that the other skills within the cluster are
 available at one level less.
 
  >>

The line you mention occurs at the base of a chart which details Cascade
skills. It should say Cascade rather than cluser. Thanks for catching that.

Marc

(I really do appreciate that; its one less errata for the final T4.1).

M

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:29:31 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies

In a message dated 98-02-28 13:14:01 EST, you write:

<< 
 Finally, I've noticed a discrepancy between the Brawling task as stated
 in the definition for Brawling skill, and the task as stated in the
 document "Trav 4.1 Tasks". In the former, the lowest roll wins. The
 latter uses the highest roll for the winner. Which is right?
  >>

Low rolls are supposed to win. I'm not finding what you are referencing.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:29:36 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies

In a message dated 98-02-28 13:14:01 EST, you write:

<< 
 My player also mentioned that there is no reference to Energy Weapons
 skills, Laser Weapons, etc. What happened to those skills?
 
  >>

Here is atab delimited table showing the various combat related skills. In
T4.1 (for example) Laser Rifle is a Rifle; some energy weapons are Heavy
Weapons.

Skill Heading		Skill	Range	User	Comments
Fighting		Brawling	Contact	Individual.	Unarmed combat with more than two
combatants.
		Melee	Contact	Individual.	Unarmed combat between two fighters.
Blade Combat		Knife	Contact.	Individual.	Knife fighting.
		Sword	Contact	Individual.	Sword fighting.
		Fencing	Contact	Individual.	Duels (especially formal duels). 
		Throwing	Ranged	Individual	Throwing of weapons or explosives.
Bow Combat		Bow Combat	Ranged. 	Individual.	Bow combat.
Gun Combat		Pistol	Ranged.	Individual.	One-handed single shot gun.
		SMG	Ranged. 	Individual.	Two-handed automatic fire gun.
		Shotgun	Ranged. 	Individual.	Two handed multi-projectile gun.
		Rifle	Ranged.	Individual.	Two handed single projectile gun.
Heavy Wpns		Heavy Wpns	Ranged.	Crewed.	Machineguns, launchers, and energy
projectors.
		Fwd Observer	Ranged	Spotter	Targets indirect fire.
Artillery		Artillery	Indirect.	Crewed.	Surface and orbital artillery, and beam
weapons.
Gunnery		Ships Guns	Space Combat.	Crewed.	Ship based weaponry.

BATTLEFIELD SKILLS
Category		Skill	User	Effect
Enhancement		Battle Dress	Individual	User can wear and operate battlefield
armor.
		Demolitions	Individual	User can place and use battlefield explosives.
		Stealth	Individual	User can move undetected.
Preparation		Recon	Individual	User can observe and evaluate enemy situations.
		Cbt Engineer	Leader	User can plan military battle preparations.
Assistance		Strategy	Leader	Leader can plan military operations.
		Leadership	Leader	User can command subordinates effectively.
		Tactics	Leader	Leader can direct military operations.
		First Aid	Individual	User can administer immediate medical aid.
		Medical	Individual	User can administer immediate and continued medical aid.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:17:59 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies

CardSharks wrote:

>  Finally, I've noticed a discrepancy between the Brawling task as stated
>  in the definition for Brawling skill, and the task as stated in the
>  document "Trav 4.1 Tasks". In the former, the lowest roll wins. The
>  latter uses the highest roll for the winner. Which is right?
>
>   >>
> Low rolls are supposed to win. I'm not finding what you are referencing.

I apologize. Several of my few brain cells collided in an unexpected manner,
and my thought processes were impaired. I grovel at your feet in shame.


- --
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:06:11 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Imperial Squadrons and Pocket Empires

>For a peaceful world (Olny???) the jump fleet is 5 to 10x weaker than
>the SDB fleet.
I commented on this when I first got IS - in fact, the scenario as
printed is completely unwinnable by either side because their SDBs
overwhelm their mobile fleets so completely.

>For an Imperial Squadrons game set using Pocket Empires backdrop I
>would use a different table for determining number of squadrons:
>SDB       Squadrons
>1500      25
> 150       5
>  15       1
Sounds quite reasonable to me - the lesson being "don't monkey with
a log table"...(And "playtest", but that lesson is lost on IG.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:20:34 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re:  rocket sizes (was starport eco)

Rocket design

>1) From what I know of real world space(read rocket) design, the bigger it
>is, the more the mass of the engines drops proportionally. This is why
>1960's NASA relied on mega rockets like the Saturn. Almost everything in
>the Traveller design tables follows a linear progression with the exception
>of the volume factor of the hull ( maybe a couple others). I'm sure I'll be
>bombed with examples of this being wrong, but just look at the fusion plant
>tables and the thruster tables. Both are straight progressions (which does
>make it easier to make a spreadsheet to do the calcs tho) in every category
>except personnel. Questions, Comments?

This isn't actually particularly true; mass of engines stays linear
with overall vehicle mass. The Saturn was  great honking behemoth
because it had to put a hell of a big payload - a fully-assembled lunar
package - into orbit. There are some scaling laws that favour big
vehicles - surface area to volume, mostly, whcih is already in
the FFS2 system. Granted, you can't scale down from a Saturn to a 
12" minirocket, but you can scale pretty well from a Saturn to an
Atlas. (Note that the current fasionable thinking in single-stage-to-orbit
vehicles includes several groups who think small is better.)
Fusion power plants in FFS2 do have some (clunky) scale efficiency
rules. Thrusters don't, but they do have a hefty minimum size.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 98 13:36:16 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: GURPS TNS

On 02/28/98 at 11:21 AM,  GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com> said:

>> Just read the TNS articles and I'm impressed..... keep it up Loren!

Loren, I know you're using the TNS shorts as teasers to hype GURPS
Traveller's timeline, that's not a slam BTW..it's admiration for the use of
a promotional technique that targets the hearts/minds/and expectations of
your core market. These TNS artices are also valuable as adventure nuggets
and background material.  So, I hope that you, or whoever ends up managing
the GT website, archives the TNS articles and keeps them available like a
news database that GM's (and players) can access and search for material.

Semi-serious idea...

...wouldn't it be a kick to have players in a GT canonical game do a
library search for information...and have it be a *real* library search?
Access the GT website, change to the TNS database, and do a search by
keyword to find why TAS has declared the XYZ system an Amber Zone, the last
known location of Varian, reports of piracy in Fornast, or data on the
natives of Sayat.  

I think something like this might also be marketable on disk or CD,
particularly if you customized the search tool to have player and GM modes.
Heck, you could make the ease of access in player mode dependent on the
players Computer skill...nah that's probably going too far. ;->

Of course to make this idea work right somebody would have to enter all the
library data (not just time-consuming, but a copywrite issue), and a *mass*
of past TNS articles. The old library data would be good for a Trav
campaign in any of the standard timelines, but you'd have to split the file
at the GT/MT break. Of course, if you could, I'd say put both timelines in
and have three files for the user to search: pre-split CT, the GT branch
and the MT branch.  If you could get the manpower to enter the data (and
it's probably already have been done amongst us ;-), I think it would be
worth pursuing the copywrite permission for, at least, the CT data.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:54:55 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: IG Info

I recently received my check for IG for the work I did for them.  I also 
received the following notice in my mailbox which helped me resolve this 
problem.  I'm posting this message here in case any of the other 
free-lancers haven't received this message.  Marlene Short at IG was very 
helpful and my check arrived less than a week after I talked with her.

- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

Begin Forwarded Message
- -------------------------------------------------
The following statement has been issued from Imperium Games
regarding outstanding freelance payments.

Wednesday, February 18, 1998

Dear Freelancers:

I regret to inform you that due to the low performance of Traveller
products in the marketplace, Imperium Games must undergo a reorganization
to address the debts owed to its various vendors. We have attempted to
operate the company with the hope that sales would begin to increase, but,
as this hasn't occurred, we must re-evaluate how IG will operate in the
future. 

As part of Imperium's restructuring, it has become necessary to discuss
alternative payment arrangements with IG's creditors. With specific
reference to our freelancers, we are offering a buyout arrangement of 50%
on the dollar for whatever IG owes for work completed on products which
have been published. Negotiated and agreed payoffs will be paid out over
time as funds are available to IG. We will also allow the freelancers to
retain the rights to the materials prepared by them, provided we may still
sell our backlist products as these revenues will be used to facilitate
the pay-off agreements we make. To this end, we would appreciate your
faxing us information regarding what you are owed, and we will get back to
you to finalize arrangements. You may fax your information to the
attention of Marlene Short at 310-275-9322. 

With regard to work completed on unpublished products which include
#2003 Aliens, #1760-Nobles, #3004-The Vilani Hypothesis, and
#9027-Journal #27, we can only offer 25% on the dollar for work done
on these books, which is 50% of the kill fee for unpublished material.
Of course, individuals may retain the rights to the material they created,
however, 25% is the best we can do in this regard.

We realize and greatly appreciate all of your efforts to help make
Traveller a success. It is unfortunate that the market did not respond
better to the products.

Thanking you in advance,

<signed> Corey Solomon
Imperium Games, Inc.

- -------------------------------------------
End Forwarded Message

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 98 17:19:12 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Loren, are you there?

On 02/28/98 at 11:46 AM,  GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com> said:

>>Loren, if your out there, please remind SJG that the adventures are as
>>important as the Worldbooks! It'd be nice to see some of the GDW style of
>>"background as background to an adventure" style books published again.

>The feeling among marketing types in the game biz is that these days, you
>can't give adventures away, whereas sourcebooks and world books sell like
>hotcakes (well, relatively -- the RPG market is in a doldrums right this
>minute). Unless that changes, the current plan is for a "sourcebook with
>adventure material included, and encourage adventures in Pyramid"
>approach.

I read that all the time..about adventures not moving..and I guess it's
true, otherwise publishers *would* be publishing adventures. Rhetorically,
is it because gamers won't buy adventures, or is it because gamers stopped
buying the adventures the publishers were printing?  Now, gamers *used* to
buy adventure books, at least Traveller gamers used to...so did the gamers
change, or did something about the adventure's being printed change?

Oh well, let's say the publishers *are* right and there's no money in
printing adventure books.  Might it be possible to *electronically* publish
adventures and sell them over the net for $3 or $4?  At that price, I'd buy
something as well done as one of the old GDW double adventures.  

In 25 to 30 digest sized pages you got an adventure or two, some NPC's, a
system writeup, some equipment, a few maps, maybe a deckplan...enough to
fill several game sessions.  You could fit all that into well under a meg
of space, so distributing on disk or by dl should work just fine.

Does anyone think something like this would sell?


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:50:35 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Loren, are you there?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: Loren, are you there?


>In 25 to 30 digest sized pages you got an adventure or two, some NPC's, a
>system writeup, some equipment, a few maps, maybe a deckplan...enough to
>fill several game sessions.  You could fit all that into well under a meg
>of space, so distributing on disk or by dl should work just fine.
>
>Does anyone think something like this would sell?


Eris,

This is exactly the point I was trying to make in a bit too tipsy a state.
Not only did you receive a healthy dose of background information but an
adventure to boot. With the information just posted in John's message a web
based publishing system is a very good option. Something simalar to the
BTRC, 3G3 operation, maybe through a sales house like they use (the name
escapes me at the moment).

3-4 dollars for those type of advenutre/suppliments in an electronic format
sounds about right. Of course I don't know about copywrite stuff and
agreements with IG(?) or FFE, but I think they would go.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:25:43 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: SSDS Structure Factors

At 01:49 pm 2/24/98 EST, you wrote:
>I sent this out once before, in the middle of the Great February Flame
Fest,
>so maybe it just got missed...
>
>Does anyone have a formula or table of the SSDS Structure Factors for
hulls
>greater than 5000dt?  I am interested in using them w/ the SSDS system for
>some off-the-cuff designs for color during my campaign.  If anybody has
any
>info I'd surely be greatful...

	The numbers for SSDS structure factors were generated straight out of FF&S
(1), so that'd be your source. 
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:40:25 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Planetary Meson Guns

At 06:49 am 2/26/98 PST, you wrote:
>I dunno. I don't think that the presence of forward observers in a city
>necessarily make the city a target. Anybody know for sure if unarmed
>spotters, especially civilian ones, convert their surroundings into a
>legit target?

	1. Military personnel are legitimate military targets, most especially if
they are contributing to the fight.
	2. The presence of a legitimate military target within a protected area
strips the protected status.

HOWEVER! You can't use an H-bomb to take out an individual solder. In fact,
it's against the Geneva convention to use 50 cal machine guns on personnel.
That's why you shoot at equipment, such as belt buckles, canteens, ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 00:36:31 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets

> Allow a world to trade SDB factors for squadron factors

I like this idea!

In combat terms we know that 10 SDB = 1 Attack factor, but cost more 
due to jump drives ... let us use a further factor of two for this.  We 
can either do the conversion based on CruRon Attack factors, or just 
use a standard conversion for any world:

CruRon basis
============
1 squadron = (P-2+M) x 10 SDB's


"Standard" conversion
=====================
1 squadron = 70 SDB's

So, going back to the example of Olny, it could trade in 1440 of its 
1500 SDB's to "buy" 16 more squadrons (90 SDB per Sq) - a total of 
80 extra AF (if CruRons) or 56 AF (if BatRons) ... which is around half 
the "combat strength" the SDB force represented.  This seems about 
right to me.

Now Olny has 21 squadrons, rather than 5, which is within spitting 
distance of the 25 Sq I wanted to give to a war-mongering pocket empire 
like Olny.  Excellent!


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:38:35 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo

- --------------DB18100967A2F61D6FBB81C5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



s.johnson107@genie.geis.com wrote:

>     I've been thinking on how cargo is handled in Traveller.  Especially in
> light of having had the chance to tour a port facility recently.  The entire
> world has switched over to the Container system of cargo transport.  It's
> extremely efficient, very secure and I don't think it would be abandoned on an
> Interstellar scale to return to stevedores and time consuming hand loading of
> Starships.

[snip]

I used this principle to design a rather large open structure ship that would
carry 4 large cargo pods.  The pods were medium boxes that fit into 4 large holes
in the ships open structure (see figure below x is the ship structure around the
pods, p is the pod).

xxxxxxx
xppxppx
xppxppx
xxxxxxx
xppxppx
xppxppx
xxxxxxx

The pods were exposed on top an bottom, and were about 80 tons or so.  I designed
a range of pods - cargo, weapons, troop transport, science labs, etc.  I was
thinking of Semi-Tractor Trailers (18 wheelers) and how (at least in the movies)
the military and the government can put a science lab or whatever, wherever they
need it.

Each of the pods was self-contained with its own life support, airlock, etc. They
were basically box-hull ships without jump drives or engines.  I also designed a
ship to take these pods from orbit to ground.

For the life of me I can't find the stats on them, but I might redesign them one
day (yeah, right).

Bloo

- --------------DB18100967A2F61D6FBB81C5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
&nbsp;

<P>s.johnson107@genie.geis.com wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've been thinking on how cargo
is handled in Traveller.&nbsp; Especially in
<BR>light of having had the chance to tour a port facility recently.&nbsp;
The entire
<BR>world has switched over to the Container system of cargo transport.&nbsp;
It's
<BR>extremely efficient, very secure and I don't think it would be abandoned
on an
<BR>Interstellar scale to return to stevedores and time consuming hand
loading of
<BR>Starships.</BLOCKQUOTE>
[snip]

<P>I used this principle to design a rather large open structure ship that
would carry 4 large cargo pods.&nbsp; The pods were medium boxes that fit
into 4 large holes in the ships open structure (see figure below x is the
ship structure around the pods, p is the pod).

<P><TT>xxxxxxx</TT>
<BR><TT>xppxppx</TT>
<BR><TT>xppxppx</TT>
<BR><TT>xxxxxxx</TT>
<BR><TT>xppxppx</TT>
<BR><TT>xppxppx</TT>
<BR><TT>xxxxxxx</TT><TT></TT>

<P>The pods were exposed on top an bottom, and were about 80 tons or so.&nbsp;
I designed a range of pods - cargo, weapons, troop transport, science labs,
etc.&nbsp; I was thinking of Semi-Tractor Trailers (18 wheelers) and how
(at least in the movies) the military and the government can put a science
lab or whatever, wherever they need it.

<P>Each of the pods was self-contained with its own life support, airlock,
etc. They were basically box-hull ships without jump drives or engines.&nbsp;
I also designed a ship to take these pods from orbit to ground.

<P>For the life of me I can't find the stats on them, but I might redesign
them one day (yeah, right).

<P>Bloo</HTML>

- --------------DB18100967A2F61D6FBB81C5--

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #227
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, March 1 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 228



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: IG Info
Web Publishing Adventures (Was Re: Loren, are you there?)
Re: Standardized Cargo
Traveller Alien Modules - Help
Re: Traveller Alien Modules - Help
Glow-in-the-dark colors
Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies
Re: Web Publishing Adventures (Was Re: Loren, are you there?)
Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors
Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors
Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues
Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)
Re: Stealth Suits
Re: Nuclear dampers: alternative uses
Re: Office 98, Virus, and associated ramblings (was Re: Next Software Project)
Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies
Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies
Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors
Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:49:36 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: IG Info

John R. Snead wrote:
[snip]

> Begin Forwarded Message
> -------------------------------------------------
> The following statement has been issued from Imperium Games
> regarding outstanding freelance payments.
>
> Wednesday, February 18, 1998
>
> Dear Freelancers:
>
> I regret to inform you that due to the low performance of Traveller
> products in the marketplace, Imperium Games must undergo a reorganization
> to address the debts owed to its various vendors.

[snip]

> We will also allow the freelancers to
> retain the rights to the materials prepared by them, provided we may still
> sell our backlist products as these revenues will be used to facilitate
> the pay-off agreements we make.

[snip]

> Of course, individuals may retain the rights to the material they created,
> however, 25% is the best we can do in this regard.

Does this mean that we can look forward to the (I'm sure) excellent work of
many of you freelance contributors anytime soon??  Please, please.

Or will there be an attempt to publish such works commercially in a different
manner (assuming that one can be created without infringing any trademark
rights of Marc or IG) - doh!  Just check the T4 Book1, FarFutures Enterprises
only licensed the Trademark.  He didn't transfer it.  Excellent move, Marc!
(And I'm saying that a law student who has studied trademark and know how easy
it is to lose your rights).

I hope this doesn't hurt the progress of T4.1

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:10:06 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Web Publishing Adventures (Was Re: Loren, are you there?)

Michael D. Peters wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Loren, are you there?
>
> >In 25 to 30 digest sized pages you got an adventure or two, some NPC's, a
> >system writeup, some equipment, a few maps, maybe a deckplan...enough to
> >fill several game sessions.  You could fit all that into well under a meg
> >of space, so distributing on disk or by dl should work just fine.
> >
> >Does anyone think something like this would sell?

[snip]

> With the information just posted in John's message a web
> based publishing system is a very good option. Something simalar to the
> BTRC, 3G3 operation, maybe through a sales house like they use (the name
> escapes me at the moment).
>
> 3-4 dollars for those type of advenutre/suppliments in an electronic format
> sounds about right. Of course I don't know about copywrite stuff and
> agreements with IG(?) or FFE, but I think they would go.

As much as I would like something like to work, I just don't think it will.
They'd have to be *top* quality.  Maybe that easier with Traveller stuff, due
to its traditional high quality benchmarks, but I'm still going to want to
thumb through the pages, so web publishing would have to have that "show me
first" kind of appeal.

I think one reason that adventures for many RPGs don't sell so well is that,
generally, IMHO, they aren't worth a whole lot.  I think, without any basis in
knowledge or fact, that the RPG market as a whole has aged a bit.  You get
gamers fully capable of  creating their own adventures and their own
campaigns.  (Some of the best gaming sessions I was ever in were led by a
referee that made everything up on the spot.  Amazing guy, absolutely no
preparation. And it wasn't even Silly Era type adventuring, well, only
once.).   And many, at least among those I know, who would rather make their
own campaigns with a standard set of rules.  YMMV.

OTOH, web publishing an adventure may be an excellent way to keep interest in
the game as well as provide more and higher quality images, plans and the
like.  (Before I forget, Marc is probably going to have to give them the FFE
stamp of approval - which may be an excellent way to further maintain the
quality).

Blah, blah, I said,  . . . My Point:

Such a scheme needs a market test.  We need a developed adventure to put on the
web.  It should be free (just the first one).  FFE would need to give it the
stamp of approval.  And it should attempt to get some feedback from those who
use it (especially, would you pay US$3-4 for similar products of this
quality).  Such a test will tell right away if theres enough of a market to
support web publishing of adventures.

I'd be willing to help, but I'm probably best put to use as an editor than a
content creator.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:02:53 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_010F_01BD4483.DAE6B840
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


- -----Original Message-----
    From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
    To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
    Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 7:51 PM
    Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo
   =20
   =20
    The pods were exposed on top an bottom, and were about 80 tons or =
so.  I designed a range of pods - cargo, weapons, troop transport, =
science labs, etc.  I was thinking of Semi-Tractor Trailers (18 =
wheelers) and how (at least in the movies) the military and the =
government can put a science lab or whatever, wherever they need it.=20
   =20
    Each of the pods was self-contained with its own life support, =
airlock, etc. They were basically box-hull ships without jump drives or =
engines.  I also designed a ship to take these pods from orbit to =
ground.=20
   =20
    For the life of me I can't find the stats on them, but I might =
redesign them one day (yeah, right).=20
   =20
    Bloo=20
   =20
   =20
    In a simalar vein, I'm working on deck plan designs for my Boxcar =
class merchant. it is designed to ustilize the 6x12 meter standard =
containers loaded into two side compartments running the length of the =
ship's lower deck. The design is for the sides of the lower deck to open =
and the containers to be slipped in end first, kind of like the old Pezz =
dispensers, easy to load and off load with grav lifters and a fork =
truck. On the other hand, since the compartments are enclosed, =
palletized or loose cargo can also be carried.

A small  catwalk allows access to the containers during flight so =
specialized containers for animals or extra passengers can be sued, and =
accessed.=20

Standardized containers just make sense, even as added protection for =
the cargo, but mosty for the ship. Loose cargo can break loose during =
manuvers, in containers there is less of a problem... unless the =
containers break loose! ;^>

I wonder... could a container with missile launcers or even beam weapon =
turrests be dropped in flight? Not quite Jump mines but they might =
surprise a pirate (if they exist, and I don't want to know!). Or as a =
way to make merchant ships into warships in an emergency (Q-ships?).

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com



- ------=_NextPart_000_010F_01BD4483.DAE6B840
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Steve Daniels &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:blueboy@bu.edu">blueboy@bu.edu</A>&gt;<BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
    href=3D"mailto:traveller@mpgn.com">traveller@mpgn.com</A> &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:traveller@mpgn.com">traveller@mpgn.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date:=
=20
    </B>Saturday, February 28, 1998 7:51 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: =
Standardized=20
    Cargo<BR><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <P>The pods were exposed on top an bottom, and were about 80 tons or =

    so.&nbsp; I designed a range of pods - cargo, weapons, troop =
transport,=20
    science labs, etc.&nbsp; I was thinking of Semi-Tractor Trailers (18 =

    wheelers) and how (at least in the movies) the military and the =
government=20
    can put a science lab or whatever, wherever they need it.=20
    <P>Each of the pods was self-contained with its own life support, =
airlock,=20
    etc. They were basically box-hull ships without jump drives or=20
    engines.&nbsp; I also designed a ship to take these pods from orbit =
to=20
    ground.=20
    <P>For the life of me I can't find the stats on them, but I might =
redesign=20
    them one day (yeah, right).=20
    <P>Bloo=20
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>In a simalar vein, =
I'm working on=20
deck plan designs for my Boxcar class merchant. it is designed to =
ustilize the=20
6x12 meter standard containers loaded into two side compartments running =
the=20
length of the ship's lower deck. The design is for the sides of the =
lower deck=20
to open and the containers to be slipped in end first, kind of like the =
old Pezz=20
dispensers, easy to load and off load with grav lifters and a fork =
truck. On the=20
other hand, since the compartments are enclosed, palletized or loose =
cargo can=20
also be carried.</FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3>A small&nbsp; catwalk allows =
access to the=20
containers during flight so specialized containers for animals or extra=20
passengers can be sued, and accessed. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Standardized containers just make sense, even as added protection =
for the=20
cargo, but mosty for the ship. Loose cargo can break loose during =
manuvers, in=20
containers there is less of a problem... unless the containers break =
loose!=20
;^&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I wonder... could a container with missile launcers or even beam =
weapon=20
turrests be dropped in flight? Not quite Jump mines but they might =
surprise a=20
pirate (if they exist, and I don't want to know!). Or as a way to make =
merchant=20
ships into warships in an emergency (Q-ships?).</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Mike Peters</DIV>
<DIV><A =
href=3D"mailto:Letterworks@CITNET.com">Letterworks@CITNET.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_010F_01BD4483.DAE6B840--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:28:35 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Traveller Alien Modules - Help

	I had read a while ago (about a year or so when Gen Con was coming to
town...) that a company in Germany or the UK was re-producing all of the
alien modules in a hard bound book for about $150.00 US or something like
that.  Does anyone know who, where, and how I can get in touch with
these/this people/person?

Please send responses to:
scspieker@ncweb.com

Thanks
Scott Spieker

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:58:03 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Alien Modules - Help

Scott, please let me know what you turn up with the Alien modules.


Seth

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:07:15 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Glow-in-the-dark colors

A few quick queries on an obscure subject....

What's the stuff that glows in those stick-on glow-in-the-dark stars?

Can anyone tell me why glow-in-the-dark materials - the kind that absorb
energy from bright light and then emit for several hours - are seemingly
available only in a pale greenish-white color? Why not other colors? 

(I know that there are pigments which fluoresce under UV light, but they
stop when the UV light is turned off. I'm not talking about
chemofluorescents either, like in glow-sticks.)

Is there any reason why a future technology might not be able to produce a
wide range of glow-in-the-dark colors, and ones more intense and saturated
than the greenish-white stuff?

Hoping the collective wisdom of the TML can help out,

 + GMG +


    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:11:42 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies

> The line you mention occurs at the base of a chart which details Cascade
> skills. It should say Cascade rather than cluser. Thanks for catching that.
> 
> Marc
> 
> (I really do appreciate that; its one less errata for the final T4.1).
> 


Actually you're pretty darn smart Marc, posting things to the list
BEFORE they are set in stone, because I've noticed this lot will spot
nearly anything that's amiss in a document.  :)

Heck, eventually you may need NO errata for T4.1!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:17:03 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Web Publishing Adventures (Was Re: Loren, are you there?)

Steve Daniels wrote:

> Such a scheme needs a market test.  We need a developed adventure to put on the
> web.  It should be free (just the first one).  FFE would need to give it the
> stamp of approval.  And it should attempt to get some feedback from those who
> use it (especially, would you pay US$3-4 for similar products of this
> quality).  Such a test will tell right away if theres enough of a market to
> support web publishing of adventures.
>
> I'd be willing to help, but I'm probably best put to use as an editor than a
> content creator.

Perhaps the easiest and fastest way to do this would be to webbify one of the old
CT Adventures.  Would save a great deal of time.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:39:18 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors

> A few quick queries on an obscure subject....
> 
> What's the stuff that glows in those stick-on glow-in-the-dark stars?
> 
> Can anyone tell me why glow-in-the-dark materials - the kind that absorb
> energy from bright light and then emit for several hours - are seemingly
> available only in a pale greenish-white color? Why not other colors? 
> 
> (I know that there are pigments which fluoresce under UV light, but they
> stop when the UV light is turned off. I'm not talking about
> chemofluorescents either, like in glow-sticks.)
> 
> Is there any reason why a future technology might not be able to produce a
> wide range of glow-in-the-dark colors, and ones more intense and saturated
> than the greenish-white stuff?


I believe that glow in the dark paint is based in an element known as
"radium" which is mildly radioactive, hence the "glow" in the dark
effect.  If one were to paint one's house with such paint, I would
venture to say one would soon become sick from the radiation exposure. 
I am not sure and cannot quantify this.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:49:19 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors

Glenn Grant wrote:

>Is there any reason why a future technology might not be able to produce a
>wide range of glow-in-the-dark colors, and ones more intense and saturated
>than the greenish-white stuff?

I hope so.  It'd be highly unorthodox, possibly diabolical in nature, but
fun.  I used to have lots of fun with glow-in-the-dark paint.  Great for
personal decoration too (put it on your 4" nose tusk, lips, fingernails and
eyebrows -- guaranteed to liven up any party once the lights go out).

>    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------
>                         <neo@total.net>
>    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
>        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
>      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
>                        --Kenji Schwarz

Lest anyone think the march of progress has halted, we've moved way beyond
the raw essence of interstellar civilization and entered into the
pulsating, throbbing richness of it:  another starship, two solar systems,
a writeup of their "homeworld" in WBH format, two nonhuman sapient species
affiliated with the Concourse, a new section for articles on the language
(currently holding an outdated trial translation of a 20th century Russian
Acmeist poem into Sayat, and the fairly final draft of Sayat phonology; I'm
having tons of fun thinking of terrible double-entendres in describing
Sayat linguistic structures), and -- vital to any civilization -- a page of
windy, introspective self-justificatory b.s.!

Stay tuned for new vehicle designs (the "low-profile scientific specimen
acquisition platform" is due first, then a mobile home.  Yes, of _course_
the backwoods Sayat live in trailer parks!  Like, duh!!!), at least the
Galanglic portion of a Sayat tourist phrasebook ("Our room is too quiet;
don't you have anything noisier?"  "So, there really hasn't been any sort
of intellectual life on your planet since the Vilani left, has there?"),
another starship (hee hee hee), a fuller writeup on the ecology of their
homeworld, and details on the Sayat tongue as they become printable
(inversion! antipassivization!   cleft stacking! labial spreading!
participant binding! clitic pushing! hard movement!)... and more.  Like
shots of the Sayat Barbie, if I can get decent photos of hir.

Before I'm forced to start up a PBEM with Sayat content (PCs are an
uncomfortable alliance of Concourse and K'kree militarists, united only by
their fear and hatred of mysterious, malicious, neighboring high-tech Fungi
From Yuggoth/flesheating sky-monsters/Droyne), I'll have to just publish a
goddamn Compendium of the Sayat Concourse (CSC -- whoops, that's already
been used.  No can do.  Whew. I'm off the hook.)

<http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:23:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Equipment: Stealth Suit ; Game Balance Issues

In mail you write:

> With the wide and impressive scale of TLs here on our planet, I think it has
> alot to do with industrial infrastructure and availability of raw materials.
> For example, in Central and South America the TLs (classic Trav TLs) are
> between 4 and 7 or so.  In North America, they stand around 7-9, and that's
> just one continent.  
>
> South America can get its hands on plenty of 'nudges' in the right direction
> for research, but just doesn't have the infrastructure built up for a number
> of different reasons.
>
> There'll be plenty of worlds in the Imperium that just can't get enough steam
> to have a high TL, for whatever reason.

And like here on Earth, even in the "low tech" areas, you if you have
the money, you can get almost any high tech you want. 

Consider how many third world countries have some "showpiece" high tech
facility. And how many dictators tax their people to the limit to pay
for higher tech for their military (and secret police!).

That last is important. I can *easily* see a repressive lo tech world
where the local secret police (a function that is known to go back to
*at least* Roman times!) are using some pretty advanced technology to
keep an eye on the people.

Players might think the renaisance level locals are funny. Until they
get dragged up before the local inquisitor and he starts playing
holographic recordings of their "secret" meeting. Sure, that sort of
tech is "illegal" for the common people so as to protection them from
the devil's touch of this unholy technology. But (naturally) the
inquistors are "good" enough to resist the tempations involved. (Yeah,
and I have this swampland on Regina for sale)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:33:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Surface Damage (was: re: Traveller Digest yadayadayada)

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:54:04 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>> > Oops!  I just thought of something (after re-reading my previous post).
>> > This would only apply to self-seeking missiles.  Missiles steered via the
>> > mothership would communicate via a laser and a sensor mounted in the tail
>> > of said missile (thereby putting the sensor out of range of enemy fire).
>> > Of course, with the delay in communication over the beam, the target may
>> > not be where you think it is by the time the missile receives the "turn
>> > left 0.2 degrees" command...
>> 
>> Which is why you just tell the missile your best data on the course,
>> speed, and likely future maneuvers so that it can figure the course
>> change on it's own.
>
> But then the missile would need sensors mounted on its nose so that it can
> calculate these course changes.  Now were back to square one (ie: the
> sensors on the nose are extremely vulnerable to laserfire).

But it *doesn't* need them. The missile "knows" where it is (good
inertial tracking system) and you are telling it (with some lag)
*where* the target is, and even where you saw it as being a while back.
For a typical guidance computer that ought to be more than adequate info.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:53:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Stealth Suits

In mail you write:

> At 09:06 AM 26/02/98 -0500, Peter H. Brenton wrote:
>>
>>Yes Yes Yes!  All this stealth stuff is just intended to be background.  If
>>the place is for-real in terms of security it will take some role
>>playing/plot development to get into, not some fancy technology. Not that
>>fancy tech will hurt either (usually).
>>
>>And if characters have the perfect defense against ultrasonic radar in
>>their aresenal of techno-tricks, they won't encounter another such radar
>>until their suit is in the shop anyway, right?
>
> Of course they will! Enough times for them to develop a case of
> overconfidence, anyway :)

The above reminds me of *something* I've read or seen. I can't quite
place it, but I think it would play something like this:

Player 1: See, I told you this was a good investment. It's guaranteed
to defeat alarm systems up thru the Mark 14.

Player 2(examining control panel of alarm installation): Oh $#!+. This
is a Mark *15*!

PA system: Come out with your hands up!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:38:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Nuclear dampers: alternative uses

An interesting use for nuclear dampers has occured to me. It'd be a
great McGuffin for an adventure.

If you can accelerate the decay of radioisotopes, you can artificially
"age" items. That is, you can make them appear older whem various
radio-isotope dating systems are used. 

This presents an opportunity (at least in the early years of damper
tech) for a faked archeological site and faked artifacts.

Of course, when someone gets around to using one of the other dating
techniques (like the thermoluminescence test for pottery) the jig is
up. And depending on the details of the handwaving for damper tech, it
may be possible to detect that decay was artificially induced. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:38:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Office 98, Virus, and associated ramblings (was Re: Next Software Project)

In mail you write:

> ObTrav: Umm. Let's see. I was trying to reverse engineer the length from
> volume table the other day from FF&S1 (I am waiting for a second, corrected
> printing befor buying FF&S2 -- I don't need strange symbols to confuse me
> more than I already am). The formula I come up with for the basic spherical
> hull is:
>
> (cube root of (volume/4)) X 2
>
> And the formula for surface area I come up with is:
>
> ((cube root of volume) squared) X 6
>
> I know I am not a real gearhead, just a poor imitation of one, so I am
> quite certain this is incorrect. So please, someone correct me.

Volume of a sphere = (4/3)*pi*r^3
Surface Area       = 4*pi*r^2

So for a "unit sphere (ie one with a radius of 1) the volume is 4.19.
The area is 12.6. So the surface to volume ratio is 3:1. This is also
the *minimum* possible surface to volume ratio in euclidean space.

compare with a cube. Surface = 6 * L^2. Vol = L^3. So surface to volume
is 6:1. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 07:23:50 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies

On Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:11:42 -0800, J-Man wrote:

> > The line you mention occurs at the base of a chart which details Cascade
> > skills. It should say Cascade rather than cluser. Thanks for catching that.
> > 
> > Marc
> > 
> > (I really do appreciate that; its one less errata for the final T4.1).
> 
> Actually you're pretty darn smart Marc, posting things to the list
> BEFORE they are set in stone, because I've noticed this lot will spot
> nearly anything that's amiss in a document.  :)

Well, these few errors weren't noticed until much time had passed since the
material's release, so I wouldn't say that were super-keen editors or
anything :)

> Heck, eventually you may need NO errata for T4.1!

Oh great, now you just jinxed the T4.1 project :)



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:57:16 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies

> > Heck, eventually you may need NO errata for T4.1!
> 
> Oh great, now you just jinxed the T4.1 project :)
> 
> 

Umm, let's hope not.  I may catch up with Traveller with this new
publication.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 05:05:40 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors

J-Man wrote:

> > A few quick queries on an obscure subject....
> >
> > What's the stuff that glows in those stick-on glow-in-the-dark stars?
> I believe that glow in the dark paint is based in an element known as
> "radium" which is mildly radioactive, hence the "glow" in the dark
> effect.  If one were to paint one's house with such paint, I would
> venture to say one would soon become sick from the radiation exposure.
> I am not sure and cannot quantify this.

It might be uranium as well.  I know that uranium has been used for such things,
albeit in very small quantities.  According to my dentist, the two plastic teeth
I have (yup, the two front uppers - I 'caught' an aluminum baseball bat) have a
very small amount or uranium in them that make keep them whiter than they would
normally be for the material they're made out of (some not-too-tasty stuff
called prismolight - kind of like quick drying cement except you shine a laser
on them to finish the hardening).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:11:42 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors

>I believe that glow in the dark paint is based in an element known as
>"radium" which is mildly radioactive, hence the "glow" in the dark
>effect.  If one were to paint one's house with such paint, I would
>venture to say one would soon become sick from the radiation exposure. 
>I am not sure and cannot quantify this.

Old glow-in-the-dark stuff (used most commonly in watches) used radium.
However, they don't use this stuff any more (in fact, I worked in the jewelry
trade for a number of years, and apparently a few years back some group...
maybe the EPA?  Was paying a lot of money to take these watches out of the
hands of collectors' and dispose of them safely and properly).

Semo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #228
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, March 1 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 229



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: World generation Modifications
Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors
Scenario publishing options
Re: Web Publishing Adventures
Church of Sylea and other stuff
Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)
re: GURPS TNS
Traveller Alien Modules - Help
Re: GURPS TNS
Re: IG Info
Sensors and Counter-Measures
Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)
Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: Traveller Alien Modules - Help
Re: Next Software Project
Re: Nuclear dampers: alternative uses
Re: IG Info
Freelance Traveller Question: Converting HG to T4?
Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 05:24:33 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: World generation Modifications

Chris Miller wrote:

> >
> ---------> Nein! Ve vill not be giffing our dice silly little names like a
> little gurrrl...

Well, perhaps we could Travellerize the dice results like they are in craps -
Snake-Eyes, Boxcars, Little Joe from Cocomo, etc.   You know the Vargyr have
pet names for them (doh! was that a pun?)

A couple I can think of:
1-1  Binary Star
1-2  Impie (for Third Imperium)
6-4  Cold Fusion
6-5  Event Horizon
6-6  Black Hole

Comeon, Cleon needs a new pair of systems!

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 02:42:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "Kelly St.clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors

Regarding the use of radium in such compounds, I am reminded of a rather
  dark joke that I heard a little while back:  that the esteemed M. Curie
  "invented" both radium and leukemia.

Other than that, I haven't a clue as to what is currently used, or how
  one might get colors other than the familiar pale green.  Sorry.


- --------------
Kelly St.Clair
kellys@efn.org

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 02:38:42 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Scenario publishing options

>Subject: Re: Loren, are you there?
...
>In 25 to 30 digest sized pages you got an adventure or two, some NPC's, a
>system writeup, some equipment, a few maps, maybe a deckplan...enough to
>fill several game sessions.  You could fit all that into well under a meg
>of space, so distributing on disk or by dl should work just fine.

  Download would save considerably on S&H costs to the consumer, obviously.
The extra costs involved in that for me (Canada) would make me better off
for my money buying the old books I'm missing.

>Does anyone think something like this would sell?

  If they were scenarios, and coherent (canonical?) to a particular
Traveller background that I liked, yes.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 23:52:56 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Web Publishing Adventures

>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:10:06 -0500
>From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
>Subject: Web Publishing Adventures (Was Re: Loren, are you there?)

>Michael D. Peters wrote:

>> With the information just posted in John's message a web
>> based publishing system is a very good option. Something simalar to the
>> BTRC, 3G3 operation, maybe through a sales house like they use (the name
>> escapes me at the moment).

>> 3-4 dollars for those type of advenutre/suppliments in an electronic format
>> sounds about right. Of course I don't know about copywrite stuff and
>> agreements with IG(?) or FFE, but I think they would go.

>As much as I would like something like to work, I just don't think it will.
>They'd have to be *top* quality.  Maybe that easier with Traveller stuff, due
>to its traditional high quality benchmarks, but I'm still going to want to
>thumb through the pages, so web publishing would have to have that "show me
>first" kind of appeal.

[snip]

>OTOH, web publishing an adventure may be an excellent way to keep interest in
>the game as well as provide more and higher quality images, plans and the
>like.  (Before I forget, Marc is probably going to have to give them the FFE
>stamp of approval - which may be an excellent way to further maintain the
>quality).

>Blah, blah, I said,  . . . My Point:

>Such a scheme needs a market test.  We need a developed adventure to put on the
>web.  It should be free (just the first one).  FFE would need to give it the
>stamp of approval.  And it should attempt to get some feedback from those who
>use it (especially, would you pay US$3-4 for similar products of this
>quality).  Such a test will tell right away if theres enough of a market to
>support web publishing of adventures.

>I'd be willing to help, but I'm probably best put to use as an editor than a
>content creator.

I am currently working on exactly this type of project (well actually its a
bit bigger, but I could fast track the adventure portion if people would
like to test the concept)

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"15 into 1 does go, I'm living proof"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 06:31:02 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Church of Sylea and other stuff

Its not everything I want it to be yet, but the basic stuff on the
Religious careers for traveller I've been talking about is up on the
web.

http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/religion.htm

I've got 1 church, 2 military orders, and one monastic order.
Descriptions are purposefully vague at this point.

They are:
The Church of Sylea (later the Imperial Church of Sylea, even later The
Church of the Imperium)
The Holy and Ancient Military Order of Christ the Warrior
The Military Order of St. Ricardo I, King of Sylea
The Monastic Order of St. Marc of Sylea

I surprized myself by eventually being most interested in the monastic
order for playability.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:56:11 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

In mail you write:

> Audio Listening Devices
>
> At TL12, these tiny devices are a self contained transmitter, receiver,
> microprocessor and audio pickup.  The receiver is one frequency, and
> capable of receiving only simple codes.  The transmitter is a frequency
> agile, low power 5 km radio transmitter.  The microprocessor can store
> about 1 hour of data and compress it for transmission.  Data is always
> kept, oldest to newest, until the buffer is full at which point the oldest
> data is overwritten first.

One hour of "CD quality" audio is 44000 (digitization rate) x1 (bytes
per sample) x3600 (seconds per hour) bytes, or about 158 meg. One hour
of "telephone quality" audio is 4000 (digitization rate) x1 (bytes per
sample) x 3600 (seconds per hour) or about 14 meg. Both are for
uncompressed data.

> Delayed Feed; The bug will store audio data (in digital form) and compress
> it at about a 100:1 ratio.  After 1/2 the buffer is full the bug will
> 'squirt' the compressed data on a predetermined frequency (different every
> time).  A 1/2 hour of data can be transmitted in 90 seconds.

Compressing at 100:1 *without losing data* may be difficult. But
assuming that you are able to do it, that gives a required data rate of
13 kbps (telephone quality) to 140 kbps (CD Quality). Both are going to
be rather noticeable usages of frequency spectrum. 

> Constant Feed; This mode will feed all audio data in real time as it is
> received.  The frequency used will change every ten seconds.  This mode is
> not considered very safe from detection.

About as subtle as a searchlight. *Current* technology allows
hand-sized units to switch frequencies as much as 100 times a second.
That's what I'd assume these bugs would do.

> Intermittent Feed; Data is compressed and transmitted once every 15
> seconds.  Transmission time is about .15 seconds.  A different frequency is
> used each time a burst is sent.

This is the most likely mode. Though again, I'd expect the data "burst
to change frequencies *just* as often as the "constant transmit" mode.

Another possibility is a .01 sec burst once a second. Of course, the
actual duration and spacing will *not* be constant. but vary using the
same sort of algorithm used for the frequency hopping.

> The signal transmitted is broadcast.  Anyone capable of picking up radio
> transmissions over a variety of frequencies will be able to intercept the
> signal, if within range. 

Quite true. Spread spectrum ("frequency hopping") is detectable if you
know what to look for. Otherwise it looks like static.

> The compression algorithm is usually not a code system, just a simple
> data compression scheme which will take any reasonable computer no
> time to decode.  Coding the compression is not difficult, but
> requires an extra fee or Electronics-4 and a reasonable electronics
> lab.

Rather than encrypt the transmission, you use the frequency change
pattern, transmit interval pattern, and transmit duration pattern as
the "encryption". You have to match all three or don't get anything
usable. And it helps make the transmissions harder to spot. 

Again, this is *known* tech, merely projected about *2* TLs ahead.

> Video/Audio Surveillance Device
>
> At TL12, this device is the size of a golfball, and contains a video pickup
> with a "fisheye" lens, an audio pickup, and a receiver/transmitter with
> 10km range.  The function is identical in many ways to the audio device,
> including a buffer size of one hour.  Data is always kept, oldest to
> newest, until the buffer is full at which point the oldest data is
> overwritten first.  It is important to note that the fisheye lens allows
> the video pickup to record events in a hemisphere around the device, but at
> the expense of some distortion.  A special decoder is used to 'fix' the
> image for normal viewing.  Software to do this may be added to any
> computer, and is sold seperately by the manufacturer.

> The three feed modes available for the audio bug are identical in this
> device.  Video is high resolution, and a particular area can be "blown up"
> to amazing levels if needed.

Ok, here you run into *real* trouble. Current TV/VHS recording quality
video is about 200x400x256. Yes *200* horizontal resolution. Don't
believe me? Pause your VCR while playing a tape or uses a video capture
board. 

The "theoretical" resolution of NTSC video is better. But not a lot.
The new digital TV will have several resolutions. 640x480x256,
704x480x256, 1280x720x256, and 1920x1080x256. And video *doesn't*
compress as well as audio. Not when you have to compress it in
real-time. 

And *none* of these can be "blown up" to amazing levels. Try blowing up
a GIF or PNG file on your computer, and you'll see what I mean. There's
a *fixed* amount of data. And even digital enhancement isn't going to
get you that much extra. I'd say that a 4 times blowup is pushing
things (at that enlargement, every pixel in the original image is now
*16* pixels in the blowup).

The bandwidth required for the video devices is *way* too extreme to
hide for long. It's going to take *megahertz* of bandwidth.

> Various sensors may be added to the basic device, but generally it is comes
> with one "fisheye" camera of the type described above, and two independent
> video cameras with telephoto lenses for tracking specific subjects.  These
> cameras are capable of resolving faces at 2km, and printed text at 500
> meters. 

Better check out the minimum optics size required for that sort of
resolution. 

> Thanks to its larger size, this device can hold about 4 hours of video and
> audio data in its onboard buffer.  Data is always kept, oldest to newest,
> until the buffer is full at which point the oldest data is overwritten
> first.

Any sort of *useful* video is going to use buffer at roughly 100 times
the rate audio does.

> Radio communication up to 10km away is by means of a frequency agile low
> power radio communicator.  Signals are compressed and coded and frequency
> changes every 5-10 seconds randomly.  The device can enter delayed feed and
> intermttent feed modes identical to the bugs above, but it obviously cannot
> be controlled in this mode, so must be 'in place' and inactive (except for
> data collection of course).

Again, frequency hopping that slowly is just about useless. Real gear
will jump frequencies hundreds of times a second.

> P.S. There needs to be a bit more in the way of spoofing or jamming
> equipment.  I can't seem to come up with a way to detect something that's
> just 'listenning'.  Any ideas?

It is possible to detect receivers via leakage from the IF stage,
though it's far from conclusive. Fixed frequency receivers can be
detected via "resonance" effects, but that's not going to help with
frequency agile units.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:19:21 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: GURPS TNS

GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com> wrote:

>[Joke coming up! No one take this next line seriously!]
>Nah! I think I'll stop now. This isn't fun any more. : p
>[Thank you for your cooperation. We return you to the normal message.]
>
>;->
>
>>Loren: Out of curiousity, was Dulinor still planning the assassination? If
>>you don't feel at liberty to disclose this I'll understand! (Plot hook for
>>a scenario perhaps?) ;-)
>
>Plot hook for a scenario? I am not at liberty to disclose this because it is
>the _plot hook for have the ferschluginer line!_

Oh well...

>Was Dulinor still planning the assassination?

Probably... ;-)

>Was Dulinor himself
>assassinated, and if so, by who?

I'd go for the accident route, cos it would really irritate the players if
they spent a long time chasing a supposed conspiracy and found out that D
was killed accidently, but there was another deeper conspiracy.

Actually, as you're at SJG now perhaps the Templars could be behind it
all.. ;-)

>How many angels can dance on the head
>of a pin?

Well, there's something else for you to do at SJG! (An 'In Nomine'
sourcebook perhaps?)

>What happened at Roswell? Is Hitler dead, or is he really Dulinor?
>What is Varian up to, and is he going to be as much of a troublemaker as his
>brother? What is the final Seinfeld going to be like? If this is my
>thermometer, where the heck is my pen? Who put the tribbles in the
>quadrotriticale? What are the names of the Spice Girls, and who the hell cares
>anyway (lessee...Posh...Sporty...Scarey...Slutty...
>Sleezy...Bashful...uh...Doc...Dopey...uh...Dasher...Dancer...Donner &
>Blitzen.)

Kenji, have you been playing with Loren's food and drink again?

><FNORD ON>
>Loren needs his dosage adjusted -- he's beginning to ramble, and he's starting
>to fixate on lists of unconnected questions again. Focus! Focus!
><FNORD OFF>

Okay, I think I'm going to have to ask the question...

FNORD?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:11:36 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Traveller Alien Modules - Help

 "Scott Spieker" wrote:

>	I had read a while ago (about a year or so when Gen Con was coming to
>town...) that a company in Germany or the UK was re-producing all of the
>alien modules in a hard bound book for about $150.00 US or something like
>that.  Does anyone know who, where, and how I can get in touch with
>these/this people/person?

Germany company did it (IBG).

I have it (cost 115 UK sterling including postage) and it was worth it.

Try http://www.mag-net.de/FANEN/index.html

This was the shop I bought from (excellent service) only problem was that
they could only accept mastercard, not Visa.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:02:50 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS TNS

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:

>Loren, I know you're using the TNS shorts as teasers to hype GURPS
>Traveller's timeline, that's not a slam BTW..it's admiration for the use of
>a promotional technique that targets the hearts/minds/and expectations of
>your core market.

It worked for me - I just aquired a copy of GURPS. However, having skimmed
it I will almost certainly be using T4.1 rules, but will end up buying GT
stuff for background . <sigh> I suppose that makes me an addict...

>Semi-serious idea...
>
>...wouldn't it be a kick to have players in a GT canonical game do a
>library search for information...and have it be a *real* library search?
>Access the GT website, change to the TNS database, and do a search by
>keyword to find why TAS has declared the XYZ system an Amber Zone, the last
>known location of Varian, reports of piracy in Fornast, or data on the
>natives of Sayat.

Second semi-serious idea. Set up a mailing list for the TNS flashes...
That'd be really great having a TNS newsflash arrive....

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 08:15:40 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: IG Info

In a message dated 98-02-28 19:53:59 EST, you write:

<< 
 > We will also allow the freelancers to
 > retain the rights to the materials prepared by them, provided we may still
 > sell our backlist products as these revenues will be used to facilitate
 > the pay-off agreements we make.  >>


Technically, IG can't allow those rights to be retained.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 14:16:02
From: Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it>
Subject: Sensors and Counter-Measures

Hi, I've got a question about the efficiency of Sensors against planet
based targets.
Exactly how powerful they can be? What can you detect/identify from a
starship in orbit? Life forms, energy sources, and to which level of detail?

Supposing I had to hide something on a planet, which kind of
countermeasures should I apply? Should I put my secret installation below
the surface? What about submarine sites? Or under ice? Would heavy
vegetation help? What about scientifically enhanced defenses, like
genetically manipulated plants?

TIA,



__  Paolo Marino  __          |Inrete Games Page: www.inrete.it/games/gms.html
 mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred) | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 05:22:29 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

> ne hour of "CD quality" audio is 44000 (digitization rate) x1 (bytes
> per sample) x3600 (seconds per hour) bytes, or about 158 meg. One hour
> of "telephone quality" audio is 4000 (digitization rate) x1 (bytes per
> sample) x 3600 (seconds per hour) or about 14 meg. Both are for
> uncompressed data.


How can this be true?  If I use a WAV editor in win95 to record from a
CD, it gives me at MOST 3-5 minutes on a 2.1 gig hard drive that is
mostly empty.  We're talking 16bit audio, stereo, at standard CD
sampling rates of 44,000Khz.

If there is a way around this, please tell me.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:30:14 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Publishing stuff via the Internet

For adventures in particular I think I'd prefer to buy them over the
Internet at a low price. Many adventures get used only once and never again
referred to, so perhaps it's a better medium.

People would have to be convinced to buy them, though. And they'd have to
be a good bit cheaper than the equivalent paper product

For example, I put a novel out recently through an internet publisher, at
2.25 for 100,000 words. Helf the price of the paperback seems fair when
you consider the lower overheads.

(the above was a plug. Apologies!)

Point is, you could use the lower overheads to allow you to publish large
numbers of adventures in a directory. Make a couple public as samples, then
charge for the rest.

I can see that working, and I'd use it.

Thoughts, anyone?

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 15:44:28 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Traveller Alien Modules - Help

SD Mooney wrote:
> 
>  "Scott Spieker" wrote:
> 
> >       I had read a while ago (about a year or so when Gen Con was coming to
> >town...) that a company in Germany or the UK was re-producing all of the
> >alien modules in a hard bound book for about $150.00 US or something like
> >that.  Does anyone know who, where, and how I can get in touch with
> >these/this people/person?
> 
> Germany company did it (IBG).
> 
> I have it (cost 115 UK sterling including postage) and it was worth it.
> 
> Try http://www.mag-net.de/FANEN/index.html
> 
> This was the shop I bought from (excellent service) only problem was that
> they could only accept mastercard, not Visa.
When i ordered, they even added a TNE-T-shirt free of charge!
Visit their website soon!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 16:09:41 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Next Software Project

> I would like to know what sort of interest there is in a
> Trading utility, or has it already been done.

Jo Grant's SYSGEN or LIBRARY program (i forget which - it may have been 
both) would generate speculative cargo based on the CT system.  I could 
never get Jo's program to run reliably on my PC, so never used the 
system in anger.

When I eventually finish writing my version of Galactic-meets-Metator 
it will allow you to find both freight, passenger and cargo 
availability from your current location to a nominated destination.

I think a trading utility would be a great idea - particularly if it 
offered more than one trading system
Classic
MT
TNE
CORE 101 cargos
Rob Prior's extended trade goods
etc

The trick here would be to see how one interface can cope with an 
arbitrarily designed trade system ... and this depends on what kind of 
program you were trying to write.  I was impressed by CHARCON (a 
character generator and charcter sheet printing program) because its 
sophiticated feature set mean that additional scripts and data files 
can be added to define the character generation method of almost any 
RPG - without needing to recompile the executable.  As it happens, the 
included RPG systems (FUDGE, CORPs) are not ones I want to play, but it 
shows what can be achieved if you set out to have a flexible program.


Simon

Jo Grant's ftp site was: ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/trav/
Charcon: I followed the link from www.hyperbooks.com (who sell Charcon) 
back to the charcon homepage where there is a demo version to download.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 16:09:44 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Nuclear dampers: alternative uses

> This presents an opportunity for a faked archeological site
> and faked artifacts.

Slartibartfast did this in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, didn't he? 
Or was that fossils?

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 11:34:18 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: IG Info

CardSharks wrote:

> In a message dated 98-02-28 19:53:59 EST, you write:
>
> <<
>  > We will also allow the freelancers to
>  > retain the rights to the materials prepared by them, provided we may still
>  > sell our backlist products as these revenues will be used to facilitate
>  > the pay-off agreements we make.
>
>   >>
> Technically, IG can't allow those rights to be retained.

How extensive is the waiver for freelance material?
Its actual an mildly interesting from the legal point of view.
If you view the change in payment as a modification of the contract, then IG
would have whatever was transferred (presumably copyright).  But that would be a
stretch since the authors already performed by delivering their material.  It
seems to me that what IG is doing is compensating freelancers "off the
contract."  A very good idea, because thats probably the best the freelancers
could get if they sued, given the circumstances.  But it means the contract
wasn't performed.  Thus, the authors still have their copyright in the works.
However, if they use it without license from FFE, then they violate that
trademark.  And since IG is only a licensee of FFE, they can't make any of the
freelancers material licensed.   Authors who were compensated as agreed gave up
whatever the contract says.

Sorry.  Ob Traveller:  umm . . . make sure your mercenary/pirate/freelance
whatever crew has a good lawyer.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 16:51:35 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Freelance Traveller Question: Converting HG to T4?

On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:26:04 -0500, wombat@premeir.net asked
Freelance Traveller:

>What guidelines can I use to convert between High Guard and T4 starships?

I don't think it would be a nice thing to tell him to redesign
from scratch; that would be bad from a Traveller point of view
because it discourages people from shifting to T4.  Any
comments/ideas on this one?

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:35:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Audio Listening Devices
> >
> > At TL12, these tiny devices are a self contained transmitter, receiver,
> > microprocessor and audio pickup.  The receiver is one frequency, and
> > capable of receiving only simple codes.  The transmitter is a frequency
> > agile, low power 5 km radio transmitter.  The microprocessor can store
> > about 1 hour of data and compress it for transmission.  Data is always
> > kept, oldest to newest, until the buffer is full at which point the oldest
> > data is overwritten first.
> 
> One hour of "CD quality" audio is 44000 (digitization rate) x1 (bytes
> per sample) x3600 (seconds per hour) bytes, or about 158 meg. One hour
> of "telephone quality" audio is 4000 (digitization rate) x1 (bytes per
> sample) x 3600 (seconds per hour) or about 14 meg. Both are for
> uncompressed data.

Actually, 'CD' quality is 16 or more bits, not 8. Most CD player A/D
converters are 24 bit. At that rate an hour of 'CD' quality sound is about
450 mb, or not so coincidentally, the recording capacity of a 60 minute
CD. 74 minute ones are 650 mb. These sizes are determined by the dominant
player in the CD biz, which is the audio industry.

Data compression is another factor entirely. There are fractal-based
compression schemes that can compress image data to astonishing levels
while retaing a great deal of image quality;  whether that same scheme can
apply to audio data, I don't know. I do know that the compression of the
data is extremely computationally intensive, but doable in reasonable
time, even today. With the gains in processor power and speed possible
with such things as optical rather than electronic based processors,
real-time compression of such data could be accomplished in small low
power packages.

Check out Iterated Systems for software you can buy today that
accomplishes this, with better results than JPEG or GIF compression.
http://www.iterated.com

Using a lossy first-gen image encoding scheme like .gif or .png as an
example is like precluding audio bugs because we can't get the vaccuum
tubes small or low power enough.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #229
**********************************

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Traveller-digest        Sunday, March 1 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 230



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller Alien Modules - Help
Re: GURPS TNS
Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]
Re: IG Info
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: (Long, sorry) - Re: Jim L - Re: Fusionpowerplants - why refuel?
Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors
Re: Surveillance Equipment
Trading (was: Next Software Project)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:47:35 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Alien Modules - Help

Scott,

     Did you recieve the photocopies I had mailed you?  Were they what you
were looking for?

Ed

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:52:16 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: GURPS TNS

On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, SD Mooney wrote:
> 
> Second semi-serious idea. Set up a mailing list for the TNS flashes...
> That'd be really great having a TNS newsflash arrive....
> 

OOH! OOH! Mistah Wiseman Mistah Wiseman! 

That's a _GREAT!_ idea!!! I second that second semi-serious idea! Put a
hyperlink to the site and you get lots more hits, than if I have to
remember to wander over there to check it out. (It's bookmarked, but my
bookmarks file is a gigantic semi-organized thing, the Traveller folder
alone has something like 30 entries in it) 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:31:56 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

>How can this be true?  If I use a WAV editor in win95 to record from a
>CD, it gives me at MOST 3-5 minutes on a 2.1 gig hard drive that is
>mostly empty.  We're talking 16bit audio, stereo, at standard CD
>sampling rates of 44,000Khz.

44.1 kHz 16-bit, stereo audio data is stored at 10 megs per minute.  If you're
only getting 3 to 5 minutes on a mostly empty 2.1 gig harddrive, then it's
time to go out and pick up a new Wav editor  :^)

Seriously though, I've done a goodly amount of music and sound work on the
computer (an unproduced demo, and two songs for CD compilations, one of which
never made it to press), if you're only getting 3 - 5 minutes from over a gig,
then something is seriously wrong.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:34:22 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

>Point is, you could use the lower overheads to allow you to publish large
>numbers of adventures in a directory. Make a couple public as samples, then
>charge for the rest.
>
>I can see that working, and I'd use it.
>
>Thoughts, anyone?

Sounds good to me, especially if the adventures are kept in the 3 - 5 dollar
range.  It would be pretty handy, actually, to have the adventures on disk.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:40:10 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]

>Actually, 'CD' quality is 16 or more bits, not 8. Most CD player A/D
>converters are 24 bit. At that rate an hour of 'CD' quality sound is about
>450 mb, or not so coincidentally, the recording capacity of a 60 minute
>CD. 74 minute ones are 650 mb. These sizes are determined by the dominant
>player in the CD biz, which is the audio industry.

This is something I've always wondered about, but was too lazy to check up
on...  When I was in Germany, I saw a number of CDs that tipped the scales at
over 70 minutes, however, in the U.S. I don't think I've ever seen one that
tops 63 or 64 minutes.  I remember somebody warning me that a number of CD
players have problems playing CDs that go over 65 minutes.

Does anyone know if this is true, and why?

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 13:37:12 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: IG Info

At 11:38 AM 3/1/98 -0500, Bloo wrote:
Snip>...
>Sorry.  Ob Traveller:  umm . . . make sure your mercenary/pirate/freelance
>whatever crew has a good lawyer.
>

Good Wit roll!  Oops - wrong game (RQ)...

>Bloo
> 
Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 07:44:17 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

At 01:34 PM 01/03/98 EST, Semo wrote:
>>Point is, you could use the lower overheads to allow you to publish large
>>numbers of adventures in a directory. Make a couple public as samples, then
>>charge for the rest.
>>
>>I can see that working, and I'd use it.
>>
>>Thoughts, anyone?
>
>Sounds good to me, especially if the adventures are kept in the 3 - 5 dollar
>range.  It would be pretty handy, actually, to have the adventures on disk.

Yes indeed. As a poor student this is something I could maybe even afford,
and would probably buy if they were of a good quality. (good gods - I've
just said something in favour of the commercialisation of the web! Argggh!
Shows how starved for decent adventures I must be.)
 
Having them on disk is useful, too because it makes them easy to edit, for
specific campaigns. Therefore I'd be against .pdf format unless there were
other formats available - it's great for some things, but it's a pain for
gaming products that a large percentage of the market would want to fiddle
with.

- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

   "If in doubt - wipe it out."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 11:53:31 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

At 01:31 pm 3/1/98 EST, you wrote:
>>How can this be true?  If I use a WAV editor in win95 to record from a
>>CD, it gives me at MOST 3-5 minutes on a 2.1 gig hard drive that is
>>mostly empty.  We're talking 16bit audio, stereo, at standard CD
>>sampling rates of 44,000Khz.
>
>44.1 kHz 16-bit, stereo audio data is stored at 10 megs per minute.  If
you're
>only getting 3 to 5 minutes on a mostly empty 2.1 gig harddrive, then it's
>time to go out and pick up a new Wav editor  :^)

	Does the WAV format include compression? A simple analysis shows the
following: 44.1kHz sampling rate, 16 bits per sample per channel, 32 bits
total (2 channels--stereo), 60 seconds: 44,100x32x60= 84,672,000bits per
minute, or nearly 10 meg per minute. So a 2.1G hard drive (neglecting file
system overhead and the inconsistency about whether mass memory capacity is
rated in powers of 2 or 10 ...), it seems you should get 198 minutes, +/-,
on the drive. That matches up fairly well with the capacity of audio CDs
(standard 70 min CD has around 660M of capacity, IIRC).

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 11:55:25 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

At 01:34 pm 3/1/98 EST, you wrote:
>>Point is, you could use the lower overheads to allow you to publish large
>>numbers of adventures in a directory. Make a couple public as samples,
then
>>charge for the rest.
>>
>>I can see that working, and I'd use it.
>>
>>Thoughts, anyone?
>
>Sounds good to me, especially if the adventures are kept in the 3 - 5
dollar
>range.  It would be pretty handy, actually, to have the adventures on
disk.

	I would *love* to have all my gaming materials available in an electronic
format I could tweak to fit my own particular biases and ... heresies ...
And for three to five dollars, I'd certainly be willing to take a gamble
several times, where for printed materials I normally insist on browsing
before I buy.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:12:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: (Long, sorry) - Re: Jim L - Re: Fusionpowerplants - why refuel?

In mail you write:

> Primarily, I had a difficult time with the fuel volume requirements of
> the Fusion and Fusion+ powerplants in the Central Supply Catalog. 
> Fusion plants (TL12, 2.0 Mw) are listed as needing 0.003 cubic meters
> of fuel per 100 hours of operation (or 3 liters) - if this is 0.013
> moles of D2 gas or 0.052g - which would yield 0.013 moles of He,
> 0.0002g converted to energy (I think this is correct, double check) -
> which would yield 5000 Mw hours at 100% efficiency.  Efficiency ->
> 100/5000 x 100 = 0.2% efficiency - or twice as efficient as my
> presumption. Were this deuterium stored as bi-deuteriated water
> (liquid) instead of as D2 gas, it would need about 0.026 ml of volume,
> and mass about 0.26g - so to provide 10 years worth of fuel, you would
> need 228g of D2O, and  roughly 228 ml of volume.  Basically, if the
> volume listed is for D2 gas, then it is reasonable, but of it is for
> bi-deuteriated water (the most likely storage medium), then is is an
> unreasonably large volume.

Standard storage medium is cryogenic liquid hydrogen. Also, it's
considered unlikely by many that Traveller uses the 2D -> 1 He
reaction.  Arguments in favor of 4p -> 1 He have been made.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:29:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors

In mail you write:

> A few quick queries on an obscure subject....
>
> What's the stuff that glows in those stick-on glow-in-the-dark stars?
>
> Can anyone tell me why glow-in-the-dark materials - the kind that absorb
> energy from bright light and then emit for several hours - are seemingly
> available only in a pale greenish-white color? Why not other colors? 

There *is* one other color that I've seen. I have an old glow in the
dark religious statue I was given as a child. It glows a whitish blue,
tending towards violet.

> (I know that there are pigments which fluoresce under UV light, but they
> stop when the UV light is turned off. I'm not talking about
> chemofluorescents either, like in glow-sticks.)

The glow in the dark materials work by getting noloecules energized by
exposure to normal light, and then over time the molecules return to
the "ground" state by emitting photons of a *lower* frequency than the
ones that "charged" them.

> Is there any reason why a future technology might not be able to produce a
> wide range of glow-in-the-dark colors, and ones more intense and saturated
> than the greenish-white stuff?

The trouble is that due to thermo dynamic and quantum considerations
the emitted light has to be lower frequency than the charging light.
And likewise it tends to decay expontentially (like radioactive half
lives). 

The higher the frequency of the emitted light, the *dimmer* the light
will be, simply because there's less likely to be as much "charging"
light of a high enough frequency to charge the molecules. (BTW, try
using a blacklight to "charge" the glow in the dark stuff. It'll do a
better job, faster in most cases). 

This is also why you don't get bright or "saturated" colors. 

To get what you'd like there'd have to be a power source *somewhere*.
The energy storage in the "glow in the dark" molecules is pretty lousy.
But if you make it too efficient, you either won't get the light back
out, or you run the risk of it releasing a bit more strongly than you'd
like (fire or even explosion hazard).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 03:17:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment

In mail you write:

>>Audio Listening Devices
>>The microprocessor can store about 1 hour of data and compress
>>it for transmission.  Data is always kept, oldest to newest,
> A better method would be for it to use a variety of compression
> algorithyms. You know that JPGs are about 10% the size of GIFs which are
> about 10% the size of BMPs. That is because BMPs use no compression. GIFs
> use "perfect" compression (i.e. you can uncompress it to exactly the same
> as the BMP). JPGs use "lossy" compression (ie you can uncompress it to
> something almost exactly the same as the BMP). You can set your JPG writer
> to go to even smaller files but at increasing rates of lossyness.
> So a cleaner design is that the older the data, the lossier the algorithym
> is used.

That requires the computer power to go back and recursively recompress
*all* the data in storage essentially *all* the time.

> You can test this yourself by reading a WAV file into Media Player
> in Windows. When you save you have a number of options which reduce the
> quality from CD, to tape, to radio, to telephone. And that isn't even using
> compression (WAVs aren't compressed, are they?).

No, but what you are doing there is selecting the *sampling rate*.
Which has a *direct* effect on the "quality"of the saved data. Any
frequencies above *half* the sampling rate have to be filtered out or
they'll cause all sorts of mess in the playback. As I noted in another
post, CD quality is 44k samples/sec, telephone is 4k.

>   Also, as audio tends to have a lot of silent bits or repeated background
> noise it tends to compress _very_ well.

But *realtime* compression (ie compressing the data as it is generated)
isn't as efficient as being able to run a compression program on the
"whole file". And the realtime nature of the bug is going to limit the
compression somewhat.

> So, the upshot is, I think you want to revise upward the amount of data
> that can be stored and the conditions of it.

Except that *increases* the required bandwidth for transmitting the
data. And the more bandwidth required, the easier it is to stop the
transmission. 

>>It is manufactured in several forms, one looks like a stray clothing fiber
> How about one that is made almost completely of transparent material
> of low refractive index? That's sort of a catch-all!

"White" thread is made up of just such material. Being small, the
freaction effects cause it to *look* "white". 

> May I suggest a different method of transmission: that it must be pinged to
> do an upload. Ie, it doesn't broadcast until it receives a signal. The send
> signal can be disguised as any number of things from public radio
> broadcasts to normal electrical powerline noise. This allows for complete
> control of it via the base unit and reduces the chances of it burping at
> inopportune moments.

> Of course bug detectors can exploit this by blasting off several million
> commonly used interrogation codes to see if any respond.

And this is of little help when there are 10^12 or more possible codes.
:-)

>>Video is high resolution,
> Again, applying the staged compression, if you players have missed a few
> data pickups, their images might get progressively blurier. Great plot
> device.

Again, this requires an awful lot of both CPU power *and* "working" RAM
(as opposed to storage).

>>a particular area can be "blown up" to amazing levels if needed.
> Outside of the realm of monitoring devices, there are a variety of Image
> Analysis strategies that can be employed. One of the most intriguing was
> using fractals. A fractal is a repeated pattern. Most objects are made up
> of reapeated patterns. Fractal analysis involves taking an image and
> working out a set of fractals that would generate it. You don't get a
> perfect image, but a close match (A commercial system to do this was
> developed by Iterated Systems, www.iterated.com, as one of the contended
> approaches for HiDef TV. They appear to have some cool demos on their site
> but I'm using a Network Computer to browse with at the moment and can't see
> them). More interstingly, once you have a picture represented as a set of
> equasions you can do wonderful things.
>   Like infinate expansion. Any area can be expanded as much as you like. Of
> course, if you go far enough, it ends up looking rather like a mandelbrot
> set. However it can be good at picking up queues that would otherwise be
> lost.

Alas, you may be able to expand it infinitely, but the resemblance of
your expansion to the actual scene depends *entirely* on how well the
generated "fractal code" for the image resembles reality. Thus you are
actually limited to the *actual* data transmitted. Fractal compression
is actually *very* lossy, it's just that the nature of the algorithim
fills in the missing data "plausibly". It's the *last* thing you want
for real, *important* data.

>   Another thing is once you identify an object, you can isolate the
> equasions representing it, and _remove_ them. The object disapears from the
> scene and you just trace the edge equasions to get a view of what is behind
> it. Of course, if it completely obscured something it isn't going to work
> that out, but things like general terrain topography and building edges
> will be drawn.

Sure, but yuou can do that by manipulating the data stream from *any*
sort of video encoding.

>   Similarly, you can use the extension of edge equasion technique to look
> past the edge of a picture to see what is there. I think geologicsts are
> using this to "project" downward various rock strata to try to predict
> various things.

Still both this and the previous technique are data limited. That is,
the match between the output and reality is limited by the amount of
relevant data in the input. So only "lossless" compression is any good
for use as input to them, and the quality of the results is limited by
the resolution of the input data. 

>>agile frequency
> Lets discuss this term. I think what you mean by this is that it can change
> what frequency it broadcasts and receives at. In reality this is rather
> simplistic and a real system would be rather more complex.

I thinnk what he means is "spread spectrum" technology. That's where
the signal changes frequency according to a complicated algorithm
synched by clocks in both transmitter and receiver. If you do it *at
least* 10 times a second, and uses at least several dozen frequencies,
the output on any one frequency is effectively random noise (ie
"static"). 

> Firstly, it is highly unlikely that anything is going to broadcast
> straight. If nothing else a carrier wave of random or innocuous noise (like
> electrical equipment hum) will be the main broadcast and the signal will be
> encoded into this as fluctuations. Did you read about digital signatures in
> GIF picures? Basically a watermark is inserted digially using variations
> that are impossibile to detect by eye.

And it only works because the signal is a minute fraction of the data
being transmitted. It won't work for covert transmissions, because to
get an effective data rate, you need the "basse" signal that you are
modifying to have hundreds to *thousands* of times the data  "content".
That makes the base signal *way* too "loud" for anything normal.

> In the same sense a bug transmitter will encode its signal in whatever
> broadcast it sends. Most likely it will monitor its environment to find the
> loudest raido noisy object nearby and transmit in the same frequency. The
> receiver will just receive all bands at once and look for the encoded
> characteristics to work out which one it is broadcasting on.

Won't work. That would require the receiver to know the characteristics
of the *unchanged* "noise". Which it *cannot* know. And as I noted, it
also requires *such* an *amount* of noise that it'd be suspicious as hell.

AAgain, spread spectrum disguises the *fact* that there's a
transmission by spreading it over lots of frequencies. This is
*currently* used by the military for reasonably secure tactical radio
links. Hand held radios that are *very* hard to *detect* much less
listen to.

> The broadcast
> signal can also be spread over a number of different frequencies. If it is
> a digital signal, you pump bits 1-4 over one line and 5-8 over another, or
> a more random combination changing every few cycles via a pre-determined
> flexible algorithym.

Real world implementations seem to favor using only one frequency at a
time, but changing rapidly and (apparently) randomly. Among other
things, this actually lets everal sets of users share the *same* set of
frequenciesd without anything more than an apparent increase in
background noise. 

Say you have 256 frequencies, That gives 8-bits to id the frequency. So
your "key" is a list of all 256 numbers well "shuffled" (ie scrambled
into a random order in which each number appears only once). 

Say the first dozen numbers in the list are:
1: 32
2: 167
3: 223
4: 187
5: 205
6: 19
7: 126
8: 117
9: 28
10: 244
11: 181
12: 137

so the transmitter will use frequency #32, then #167, then 223, then
187, etc. Each frequency is used for a fraction of a second. 

The way the clock comes into it is like this. Say each frequency is
used for .01 seconds. So the transmitter takes the current time in
hunmdreths of a second modulo 256 (ie gets the time, and figures out
what the remainder is after dividing by 256). It then uses that number
as the starting point in the list of frequencies. So if it got a
remainder of 8, it'd start the transmission with channel 117, followed
by ch 28, then 244, etc.

The *actual* rate at which it changes frequencies will be something not
a bit more random (ie .009543 sec or .00123476 sec). Again, both ends
have to agree on the interval.

> Line noise, phone crackle, transformer hum, lightning spikes, etc, are all
> random noises occuring in our enviornment that can supply a suitably random
> medium to mask a signal.

In this case the signal *is* being "added" to any existing background
noise. But unlike your idea of modulating the background noise (which
requires that both ends know what the *unmodulated* noise looks like),
this just relies on the fact that to anybody following the same shift
pattern, the background noise is "random", but the desired signal
*isn't*. Somebody using the same 256 channels and the same switching
interval but a different list order will not see any "signal" from you,
just static (and not as much of that as you'd expect!). 

So not only is it hard to detect, it's quite secure too! The army's use
for tactical comms is based on the fact that while a *good*
multifrequency monitoring setup could record the channels, it'd take
them hours to days to find the "key (the list of fequencies and the
order that they are used in). And by that time the info is useless.

For the bugs, the good part is that the transmissions are hard to
*detect*, much less decode. Detecting a spread spectrum unit will tend
to be about one TL harder than building a unit. That is, A TL 10 unit
can only be detectd by TL 11 or better. 

> Hell, I even read about one team that was using the ionisation trails
> left by meteorites to bounce radio signals off of.

That's the *standard* means of relaying phone calls in Alaska these
days. The standard commsats are too close to the horizon.

But it's not at all stealthy. It's just using the ionization trails to
give the signals something to bounce off of, so they can be relayed
over the horizon.

> It is really rather a simple matter to choose a complex mathematical
> function, apply it to the signal at one end, and apply the inverse at the
> other end. There are millions and millions to choose from. As long as the
> transmnitter and receiver are in sync you can switch your encoding every
> second or two. This makes it very hard to try to decode these.

Actually, a second is *way* too long to stay on one frequency. You'd
get recognizable bits of sound. That's why the real units switch dozens
to hundreds of times a second. With my example of 256 channels and a
.01 sec switch rate, you'd get .01 sec of the sound every 2.56 seconds.
That's *not* going to be recognizable.

Heck even with say 32 channels and a 1/20 sec switch rate you get
1/20th sec of "signal" every 1.6 seconds. Not exactly recognizable,
unless you feed in a pure tone that's fairly loud.

>   Someone trying to foil these is going to be like surfing a breaker.
> You've got to grab the signal, follow it up and down the frequency chain,
> try to predict where it is going, not get shaken off, all during the short
> burst that it transmits on. A rough ride. But role-playable in an abstract
> sense, like a jet fighter duel.

Afraid not. The real world systems are already too complex to attack
that way. What you do is have your ELINT (ELectronic INTelligence) gear
lok for patterns in the static and correlations among different
frequencies. 

In the specific case of bugs, it gets easier. A constant transmission
spread spectrum bug can be detected by simply going into the area to be
checked and using a tone generator to generate a constant frequency
sound. Then you look for "noise" at that frequency on the multiple
bands you are monitoring. That gives you a list of *potential*
frequencies. That is, frequencies a bug *may* be using if there is
indeed one present. Then you change the frequency and see if any of the
frequencies still show a correlation. If so, you have likely found a
bug. Try a few more pure tones, and you'll have the channels *probably*
IDed. Next you try tones that vary smoothly, and with luck, that'll let
you pin down the order in which the channels are used.

Of course, the "burst" mode transmissions make this harder, as do
elementary precautions like doing a *simple* encryption on the input to
the transmitter so that the pure tone comes out scrambled. Burst mode
has a problem in that *because* it has "saved up" the data, it requires
more bandwidth, which makes it more likely that the "noise" wiull be
enough loudr than normal that someone will get suspicious.

But this is *not* subject to roleplaying, beyond the "sweep the room
for bugs" level. It's not anything that humans would be doing. They'd
just be running the "sweeper" gear and seeing if it finds anything.

>   One've you've sussed your enemny. Then you can try to start getting in on
> the act and spoofing them by waiting for signals and sending false ones
> back.

Heck, even if you can't *find* the bug, but you suspect that an area is
bugged, the classic trick is to feed some false data (or real data that
you canafford to compromise, but that the other side will "have to" do
something about) to confirm it. 

That's the trouble with intelligence gathering. Especially "bugs",
agents in place, and decrypting "secure" traffic. If you *use* the
info, you risk making the enemy wonder just how it was that you knew
the info. A few times they *may* decide it's "bad luck" but more often,
they'll start looking for leaks (even if there *aren't* any, which is a
great way to distract players. :-)

>>jam those transmissions with "white noise"
> You don't need to know what frequency something is operating at, though, to
> jam it. You just scream along all wavelengths. The problem is that you
> "white noise" has to be sufficiently complex so that software cannot
> distinguish it and screen it out. Since any such complex signal is going to
> have to end up being software generated, it becomes a tech-versus-tech
> thing (Even if you hook up a brownian motion device, like a nice hot cup of
> tea, to your transmitter you will just get natural chaos, which may be even
> easier to interpret and filter than computer generated noise).

BTW, *Jamming* Spread Spectrum gear is effectively impossible unless
you are a government, and jamm so throughly that radio cannot be used
at all. The frequency hopping makes jamming *quite* ineffective. But to
get past *powerful* jamming, requires enogh signal strength to make the
transmitter obvious.

>>to prevent signals from leaving the area of one room.
> You can't prevent them, you can only try to overwhelm them. But, if they
> are built to piggyback on top of other signals, you may just be creating
> more of a problem.

"Screening" (faraday cages and the like) can prevent signals from
leaving an area *totally*. It's just hideously expensive and
inconvenient. 

>>the device can generate an audio 'spoofing noise'
> One problem is that anything good enough to interfere with recording is
> also likely to interfere with speaking!

But you can oull tricks like have noise that's related to to comon
"sampling rates" of audio gear such that it is merely annoying to
people but renders a digital recording useless due to aliasing effects.

>   The other thing to keep in mind with many of these is tech-blindness.
> Sometimes wonderfully high tech gets so self involved that it can be foiled
> by simple things. The Janitor might throw away the paper cup you bugged,
> the subject might accidentally step on your carpet weevel, the drug dealer
> tosses her scarf into a corner on top of your video-cam, or dispite all
> your precautions, the maid next store is standing on a chair with her ear
> to a glass pressed to the wall.

Ahem. That's "next door", not "next store". :-). Bet the idiom makes
more sense now.

Acyually one of the simplest means of defeating high-tech surveilance
is also one of the easier ones. 

You'be ugged the conference room of the uunderworld bosses, and you sit
there eagerly awaiting the first transmission. It comes thru and
everyone is sitting there is shock.... 

Not because of the content of the meeting, but because the bosses are
all speaking some language the players don't know! It could be as
"simple" as a regional dialect on the planet the organization started
on (think of the "Mafia" and Sicily/sicilian). Or it could be an
"evovled" form of some "thieves cant". Given the length of time the
Imperium has been around, and various other cvilizations, there's been
*more* than enough time for the slang/jargon ofa group to evovle into
an actual "secret language", and it doesn't even have to have been
deliberate. 

>   The "problem", as most DMs see it, is that if you are expecting to be
> listened in on, you can generally prevent it, or make it difficult. However
> you can't maintain such perfect secrecy all the time. The most useful
> espionage is of and when people don't expect it.

Which is why one of the most foolproof bugs *known* is suborning
sevants or better yet, mistresses. 

>   The other side of the coin is that PCs are almost always paranoid
> bastards. With access, over the course of a campaign, to many different
> worlds of different techs, they are going to gear up to the extent that the
> DM has to pull out super-tech baddies, or just use fiat to get around their
> defenses.

Also, their paranoia can work against them. Say they are trying to
smuggle something and a random ship encounter is with a customs cutter.
They may get suspicious right then. Have that trigger an extra thorough
search, and the players are quite likely to be *certain* that someone
talked. Especially if the GM uses some subtle nudges in that direction.

Suddenly a "random check" has become "evidence" that someone knows
their plans. 

Heck, I've found that the hard part is keeping the players from haring
off on wild goose chases because of their paranoia to the detriment of
the adventure. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 14:16:10 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Trading (was: Next Software Project)

The Other Marc writes:
>Another thought for a project is something I have started, that is a
>Trade & Commerce Utility, works out all those numbing numbers/dice rolls
>that usually only need attention during a game session.
>
>I'm not trying to steal your thunder Rob, but since the subject has been
>broached, I would like to know what sort of interest there is in a
>Trading utility, or has it already been done.



Well, that depends on what rules you want to use.

DGP had a trading program for the MegaTraveller rules (which are very
similar to the T4 rules).  I never got it, because I prefer my own
homebrew system. (Shameless plug follows)

I based my system on the Classic Traveller rules, where speculative trade
dealt in specific goods with varying proces and characteristics.  Not
liking being limited to just 36 goods, I created a modified system that
would let the referee generate a "Trade Table" for a planet, which
functioned like an Animal Encounter Table during game play.  You can find
the full details at
<www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/trade.html>

Noting that rolling up tables is boring, I expanded Metator to generate
trade tables as well as animal encounter tables. To make things as simple
as possible during the game, Metator has a one-page report giving the
referee everything he or she needs to handle a merchant: the die rolls for
freight and passengers, with DMs, local currency values (and both official
and 'street' exchange rates), and the trade table.

This means that during a game the referee must make 6 dice rolls for
passengers and freight, with another dice roll for cargo _if_ the players
find some. In a way that's a lot of dice, but all the numbers are there in
front of you so there's nothing to look up, and you can preroll most of
them -- and fiddle the rolls for maximum adventures as well :-)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #230
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, March 1 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 231



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Standardized Cargo
Re: Web Publishing Adventures (Was Re: Loren, are you there?)
Possible NPC (longish)
Re:Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets
Re: Cold-starts...
When the XBoat comes in! WAS Re: GURPS TNS
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
re: Freelance Traveller Question: Converting HG to T4?
Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)
Re: Trading (was: Next Software Project)
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
FF&S2 question
Re: FF&S2 question
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Newbie Questions
Re: FF&S2 question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:24:09 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo

Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> says:


>Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo
>
>
>I used this principle to design a rather large open structure ship that
>would
 carry 4 large cargo pods.  The pods were medium boxes that fit
>into 4 large holes
 in the ships open structure (see figure below x is
>the ship structure around the
 pods, p is the pod).
>
> xxxxxxx
> xppxppx
> xppxppx
> xxxxxxx
> xppxppx
> xppxppx
> xxxxxxx
>
>The pods were exposed on top an bottom...

<snip>

>For the life of me I can't find the stats on them, but I might redesign
>them one day (yeah, right).
>
>Bloo


 Actually, check out Tommy Grav's website, and specifically his shipyard
files, at:

  http://www.ifi.uio.no/~tommyg/Trav/Trav_equip.html

 for his Anderson-class freighter. It looks rather like what you are
suggesting, though he uses 50-DTon containers.

  Speaking of Tommy Grav's site, I can't seem to find the deckplan
file for his Hawk-class liner. Has anyone seen this?

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 14:23:52 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Web Publishing Adventures (Was Re: Loren, are you there?)

Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> writes:
>Perhaps the easiest and fastest way to do this would be to webbify one of
>the old
>CT Adventures.  Would save a great deal of time.

What about Shadows?

I've already put the location into HTML, as well as converting the animal
encounter tables intoa variety of rules systems. (It makesa great
tournament adventure for new gamers, BTW.)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:27:43 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Possible NPC (longish)

Hi,
I was playing with Paul Owensby's excellent Beginnings program (can't wait
for the completed version!), and came up with this interesting character. I
haven't name him/her yet but I thought it wuld make a dandy patron. So I
thught I'd post him/her. As you'll see it is probably too powerful for a PC
but a h**l of a stronge patron to have on your side, and an even worse
enemy. Sorry for the length of the post.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

Your Strength is 12
Your Dexterity is 7
Your Endurance is 5
Your Intelligence is 10
Your Education is 15
Your Social Standing is 14 Count

Your homeworld has a Class C starport.
Your homeworld's size is Small.
Your homeworld has a Vacuum atmosphere.
Your homeworld is a Wet World
Your homeworld has a Population in the hundred-millions.
Your homeworld has a Law Level of 2.
Your homeworld has a Tech Level of C.

You graduated from the Merchant Academy.

You have an MD.
Y
ou are 62 years old.

You served in the Merchants for 1 term(s).
You achieved the rank of 2nd Officer.

You served in the Nobles for 7 term(s).

You served in the Diplomats for 1 term(s).
You achieved the rank of Asst. 2nd Secretary.

You have received the following benefits for mustering out:
Cash = Cr295000
Blade
Low Passage
Yacht
TAS
Gun
You have received a Nobles pension of Cr8000 a year.

You have accumulated the following skills:
Administration 6
Art 3
Bow Combat 1
Broker 1
Computer 2
Diplomacy 6
Equestrian 1
Fencing 5
First Aid 1
Gambling 3
Grav Craft 1
Ground Craft 2
History 1
Instruction 1
Interrogation 2
Jack of Trades 1
Language 1
Law 3
Leadership 1
Liaison 2
Long Blade 2
Medical 3
Perception 1
Pilot 1
Short Blade 2
Streetwise 1
Tactics 1
Trading 2
Vacc Suit 2

Background roll-up

At the Age of 13 You Decide on a Major Body Modification
At the Age of 14 You Are Affected by a New Law or Crackdown
At the Age of 15 You Go on the Dole, or Receive a Grant
At the Age of 16 You Get Pregnant, or Get Someone Pregnant
At the Age of 17 You Become Involved in Visual Art, or a New Musical Form
At the Age of 18 You Get a New Boss or Partner
At the Age of 19 You Are Publicly Accused with a Crime
At the Age of 20 You Encounter an Important Person from Your Past
At the Age of 21 You Feel Your Career is Stagnating
At the Age of 22 You Perform a Major Rite of Passage
At the Age of 23 You Experience a Kidnapping, Hostage Crisis, or Terror
Attack
At the Age of 24 You Lose Your Position
At the Age of 25 You Make a Major Purchase (Home, Vehicle, Land, etc.)
At the Age of 26 You Become Involved with a Lawsuit
At the Age of 27 You Survive a Major Disaster, Natural or Otherwise
At the Age of 28 You Require a Transplant Organ, or Donate One
At the Age of 29 You Separate from Partner
At the Age of 30 You Confront Your Lover Regarding a Serious Problem
At the Age of 31 You Get a New Job or Assignment
At the Age of 32 You Change Your Religion, Sect, or Philosophy
At the Age of 33 You Have a Mental/Emotional Disorder or Breakdown
At the Age of 34 You Change Your Religion, Sect, or Philosophy
At the Age of 35 You Lose Your Position
At the Age of 36 You Change Your Political Affiliation
At the Age of 37 You Are Caught up in a War or Major Uprising
At the Age of 38 You Encounter Discrimination or Intolerance
At the Age of 39 You Lose Your Position
At the Age of 40 You Experience a Kidnapping, Hostage Crisis, or Terror
Attack
At the Age of 41 You Invest with Great Losses
At the Age of 42 You Join, or Oppose, a Controversial Social Movement
At the Age of 43 You Start or End an Affair
At the Age of 44 You Encounter Oppression or Exploitation
At the Age of 45 You Lose Your Position
At the Age of 46 You Confront Your Lover Regarding a Serious Problem
At the Age of 47 You Feel Your Career is Stagnating
At the Age of 48 You Become a Celebrity
At the Age of 49 You Become Involved in Crime or Conspiracy
At the Age of 50 You Are Caught up in a Violent Civil Disorder, Rioting, or
Protests
At the Age of 51 You Change Your Religion, Sect, or Philosophy
At the Age of 52 You Invest with Great Losses
At the Age of 53 You Move in with Someone, or Move Out
At the Age of 54 You Are Betrayed by Someone You Trust, or Betray Someone
At the Age of 55 You Are Diagnosed with a Serious Disease or Disorder
At the Age of 56 You Invest with Great Losses
At the Age of 57 You Have a Falling Out, or a Reconcilliation
At the Age of 58 You Get Married or Enter a Long Term Pact
At the Age of 59 You Become Involved with a Lawsuit
At the Age of 60 You Start or End an Affair
At the Age of 61 You Change Your Home
At the Age of 62 You Have an Experience Which Changes Your Worldview

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 14:49:20 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re:Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets

I said:

>> Allow a world to trade SDB factors for squadron factors



Simon said:

>I like this idea!
>
>In combat terms we know that 10 SDB = 1 Attack factor, but cost more 
>due to jump drives ... let us use a further factor of two for this.  We 
>can either do the conversion based on CruRon Attack factors, or just 
>use a standard conversion for any world:
>
>CruRon basis
>============
>1 squadron = (P-2+M) x 10 SDB's
>
>"Standard" conversion
>=====================
>1 squadron = 70 SDB's
[example snipped]

So which version do we use?  I'm going to incorporate this into Metator II
(which already has PE and IS extensions).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:04:09 EST
From: Signal GK <SignalGK@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Cold-starts...

In a message dated 26/02/98 20:25:07 GMT, you write:

<<      Rapid Cold Start for TL16 Fusion Power Plants
 
                               by Stuart Machin >>

This is part of an article in Issue 2 of Signal-GK and is Copyrighted Signal-
GK and Stuart Machin. 

The full article including the detail of tech level 16 stealth technology in
ships will hopefully be reprinted in a BITs supplement.

Thanks,

Jae Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:41:49 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: When the XBoat comes in! WAS Re: GURPS TNS

Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:

>OOH! OOH! Mistah Wiseman Mistah Wiseman!
>
>That's a _GREAT!_ idea!!! I second that second semi-serious idea! Put a
>hyperlink to the site and you get lots more hits, than if I have to
>remember to wander over there to check it out. (It's bookmarked, but my
>bookmarks file is a gigantic semi-organized thing, the Traveller folder
>alone has something like 30 entries in it)

I'm glad you liked it. I agree (going to a bookmarked site happens less
often than when I get an address in a post).

And if you want another idea.... publish and expand the 1105 to 1115 TNS
news reports as a referee's aid. My favourite MT supplement was a TNE one -
*Survival Margin*, the perfect referee's resource to get the players
feeling it's happening out there...

Okay, so my real favourite was Hard Times, but SM came 2nd ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:56:36 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> wrote:

>>Sounds good to me, especially if the adventures are kept in the 3 - 5 dollar
>>range.  It would be pretty handy, actually, to have the adventures on disk.
>
>Yes indeed. As a poor student this is something I could maybe even afford,
>and would probably buy if they were of a good quality. (good gods - I've
>just said something in favour of the commercialisation of the web! Argggh!
>Shows how starved for decent adventures I must be.)

I discussed something like this with Andy Lilly a while ago - making the
101 books available over the web with a credit card order. However we
decided against it in the end due to the risk of piracy  of the material
:-< Even with passworded files it's too easy. Photocopying a book is much
more hassle. I doubt you will see the 101 series or any adventures
BITS/CORE prepares available that way.

>Having them on disk is useful, too because it makes them easy to edit, for
>specific campaigns. Therefore I'd be against .pdf format unless there were
>other formats available - it's great for some things, but it's a pain for
>gaming products that a large percentage of the market would want to fiddle
>with.

Acrobat has many attractions - it's designed to publish material
electronically, it's cross platform, it compresses nice and small and most
importantly, it retains the original formatting. You *can* set it up to
allow cutting and pasting of text and graphics, or the addition of notes.
And it's really easy to generate.

I don't see what the difference is between a printed acrobat file and a
normal adventure book of the type we are discussing.

Dom

*Note in this case the views I am expressing are my own and not necessarily
those of BITS*

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:36:25 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Freelance Traveller Question: Converting HG to T4?

jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin) wrote:

>On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:26:04 -0500, wombat@premeir.net asked
>Freelance Traveller:
>
>>What guidelines can I use to convert between High Guard and T4 starships?
>
>I don't think it would be a nice thing to tell him to redesign
>from scratch; that would be bad from a Traveller point of view
>because it discourages people from shifting to T4.  Any
>comments/ideas on this one?

Rob Flammang had an excellent conversion system. Unfortunately I've deleted
it so if he'd repost it to the list.... ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:44:23 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

>Does the WAV format include compression?

Not as far as I know.  I've worked in the wav format rather extensively, and
there doesn't seem to be any compression.  A 1 minute, stereo 16-bit sample at
44.1 kHz would come out to roughly 10 megs.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 98 14:19:20 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Trading (was: Next Software Project)

On 03/01/98 at 02:16 PM,  Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) said:

>DGP had a trading program for the MegaTraveller rules (which are very
>similar to the T4 rules).  I never got it, because I prefer my own
>homebrew system. (Shameless plug follows)

>I based my system on the Classic Traveller rules, where speculative trade
>dealt in specific goods with varying proces and characteristics.  Not
>liking being limited to just 36 goods, I created a modified system that
>would let the referee generate a "Trade Table" for a planet, which
>functioned like an Animal Encounter Table during game play.  You can find
>the full details at
><www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/trade.html>

>Noting that rolling up tables is boring, I expanded Metator to generate
>trade tables as well as animal encounter tables. To make things as simple
>as possible during the game, Metator has a one-page report giving the
>referee everything he or she needs to handle a merchant: the die rolls for
>freight and passengers, with DMs, local currency values (and both official
>and 'street' exchange rates), and the trade table.

Rob, it's going to be a while before you make Metator available for the PC,
so in the interim shouldn't it be possible to do a quick and dirty
spreadsheet to generate trade tables using your method?  Something in Excel
or 123 format could be read (or converted into something usable) by most
people.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 98 14:52:28 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

On 03/02/98 at 07:44 AM,  Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> said:

>>>Point is, you could use the lower overheads to allow you to publish large
>>>numbers of adventures in a directory. Make a couple public as samples, then
>>>charge for the rest.

>>Sounds good to me, especially if the adventures are kept in the 3 - 5 dollar
>>range.  It would be pretty handy, actually, to have the adventures on disk.

>Yes indeed. As a poor student this is something I could maybe even afford,
>and would probably buy if they were of a good quality. (good gods - I've
>just said something in favour of the commercialisation of the web! Argggh!
>Shows how starved for decent adventures I must be.)

Having been the one that broached the idea, I've held off on replying to
see what everybody thought, and it looks like there might be a market among
the core audience..if the price is kept low and the quality is kept high. 
The economics still might not work, who knows just how big the core market
is and if it would fly outside the core, but as someone mentioned test
marketing and further analysis is called for.

When I brought this up it was in the context of GURPS Traveller..ie
something SJGames *might* consider.  I know they are marketing one
sourcebook only over the net and have expressed an interest in getting into
electronic publishing.  If SJG was the publisher of these "Traveller Net
Adventures" there would be a built in expectation of quality...SJG has a
good reputation for giving good value for the price...so the problem of
"browse before buy" might be considerably mitigated.  They also have most
(if not all) of the needed online commercial infrastructure to run an
enterprise like this.  It might, or might not, be within their license with
Marc. 

For non-GT timeline works (and I rather suspect we'd want some of the
adventures to be generic to any timeline) someone holding a license from
Marc would have to be incharge.  This could be Marc, but I doubt he wants
to actually *be* the publisher, so it would have to be a licensee. Whoever
this is could probably arrange to sell through Hyperbooks.com as their
online storefront.  Convincing the market to buy would be harder for an
unknown company, though.

>Having them on disk is useful, too because it makes them easy to edit, for
>specific campaigns. Therefore I'd be against .pdf format unless there were
>other formats available - it's great for some things, but it's a pain for
>gaming products that a large percentage of the market would want to fiddle
>with.

I agree about pdf, but I worry about the distribution of a commercial
product that is *too* easy to modify, copy, and covertly redistribute. <big
sigh> OTOH, pdf is a pretty universally available format.  This would be
another area to be worked out.  It might be a matter of trying different
approaches and seeing what (if anything) works in the market.

Loren, I know you're new to SJG, but what do you think about passing on the
idea, and expressions of support, to Steve Jackson for his consideration?

Marc, what do *you* think about this idea?  Is there any likelihood you
would, or would license someone to, try out electronic publication of
Traveller material?  


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 98 15:28:53 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

On 03/01/98 at 07:56 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:

>I discussed something like this with Andy Lilly a while ago - making the
>101 books available over the web with a credit card order. However we
>decided against it in the end due to the risk of piracy  of the material
>:-< Even with passworded files it's too easy. Photocopying a book is much
>more hassle. I doubt you will see the 101 series or any adventures
>BITS/CORE prepares available that way.

Yes, it's a concern of mine too. I don't think anyone has come up with the
answer to the copy and redistribute problem, and that is going to delay and
if we don't find an answer, probably, kill commercial electronic
publication. Of course, it's the same problem electronic distribution of
software has been facing. The ultimate answer might have to be trusting to
the honesty of your customers...says Eris the cynic.

BTW, BITS/CORE could still sell over the web through hyperbooks.com,
discountbooks.com, titan.com, etc. The books wouldn't be on electronic
media, they would still be paper and would be shipped normally, only the
commercial transaction would take place online.  That might be the only way
some of us get a chance to buy CORE material.

>>Having them on disk is useful, too because it makes them easy to edit, for
>>specific campaigns. Therefore I'd be against .pdf format unless there were
>>other formats available - it's great for some things, but it's a pain for
>>gaming products that a large percentage of the market would want to fiddle
>>with.

>Acrobat has many attractions - it's designed to publish material
>electronically, it's cross platform, it compresses nice and small and most
>importantly, it retains the original formatting. You *can* set it up to
>allow cutting and pasting of text and graphics, or the addition of notes.
>And it's really easy to generate.

All true, and pdf is the best format I know of for something like this.
OTOH, I can see distributing supplementry files along with the main pdf
containing things like charts and tables in tab delimited ascii, maps in
jpg (or whatever), and maybe the player section for direct printing. 

>I don't see what the difference is between a printed acrobat file and a
>normal adventure book of the type we are discussing.

Distribution and production costs, potential market coverage. Oh, you mean
after the material is printed. ;->  Not much...real printing still looks
better than the printer output most people have, but not much.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:56:42 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: FF&S2 question

Gentlebeings,

apologies for the level of this question, but what do the double-headed
arrows in FF&S2 mean? I've been in coldsleep for about 8 years and I never
saw anything like them before.

thanks,
Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 15:05:00 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 question

At 08:56 am 3/2/98 +1100, you wrote:
>Gentlebeings,
>
>apologies for the level of this question, but what do the double-headed
>arrows in FF&S2 mean? I've been in coldsleep for about 8 years and I never
>saw anything like them before.

	They mean that IG didn't bother to proofread any of the manuscript after
running it through the converter from Word for Windows to whatever
typesetting program they used.

	Oh, wait, you want to know what the symbol *originally* stood for? It's
the multiplication sign ("x").
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 15:01:52 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

At 02:52 pm 3/1/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Having them on disk is useful, too because it makes them easy to edit,
for
>>specific campaigns. Therefore I'd be against .pdf format unless there
were
>>other formats available - it's great for some things, but it's a pain for
>>gaming products that a large percentage of the market would want to
fiddle
>>with.
>
>I agree about pdf, but I worry about the distribution of a commercial
>product that is *too* easy to modify, copy, and covertly redistribute.
<big
>sigh> OTOH, pdf is a pretty universally available format.  This would be

	Note that you *can* create PDF files from which the end-user can copy text
and/or graphics for use in personal universes. Greg Porter creates his that
way.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:48:17 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

- -----Original Message-----
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet


>On 03/01/98 at 07:56 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:
>
>>I discussed something like this with Andy Lilly a while ago - making the
>>101 books available over the web with a credit card order. However we
>>decided against it in the end due to the risk of piracy  of the material
>>:-< Even with passworded files it's too easy. Photocopying a book is much
>>more hassle. I doubt you will see the 101 series or any adventures
>>BITS/CORE prepares available that way.
>
>Yes, it's a concern of mine too. I don't think anyone has come up with the
>answer to the copy and redistribute problem, and that is going to delay and
>if we don't find an answer, probably, kill commercial electronic
>publication. Of course, it's the same problem electronic distribution of
>software has been facing. The ultimate answer might have to be trusting to
>the honesty of your customers...says Eris the cynic.

<snipped>

>Eris

I don't know, as one who was asking about adventures to begin with I think
the idea may have some merit. As far as piracy go, there's no way to STOP it
and still have the material availabel and cheap. However, in my experience
(not with piracy, with gaming) most Trav groups are somewhat isolated
anyway, and typically only the ref buys the adventures/supliments, so, if
the price could be kept low enough, (the $2-3-4 range previously discussed)
it would probabbly be easier AND faster to purchase them. Some sharing will
no doubt go on, as it does today with printed material, but it might be less
than suspected.

As far as PDF format, I don't know enough about it to have a valid opinion.
It looks good on screen and printed. It can be cut and pasted (with the
right options enable). Hey, maybe that's part of the answer! If it can be
set up for passwords to enable the options, you give the
adventure/suppliment away, but charge for the print/edit password? Don't
know if it can be done that way but it has some potential.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:02:02 -0600 (CST)
From: bakersns@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Baker)
Subject: Newbie Questions

     I'm having difficulty understanding ship turrets and how they're 
set up in T4.  How many lasers are on a turret?  Are batteries a series 
of turrets acting as one weapon attack?  If I have a laser battery with 
8 weapons is that one turret with 8 lasers on it, 8 turrets linked 
together or a combination of the two?

     Are sandcasters mounted on turrets?  It was my understanding that 
sancasters worked like missles in that you had a launcher that could 
shout multiple canisters.  I don't see anything like that reflected 
onthe sandcaster chart.

     And speaking of missles, the rules say that the first number 
reflects the number of missles in a salvo and the second is the number 
of reloads.  If I take the Patrol Cruiser on page 101 that says 
Barbette 5, does that mean it can fire 5 missles in one salvo or that 
there are 5 in the magazine to launch one at a time?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 15:14:15 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 question

At 08:56 AM 3/2/98 +1100, you wrote:
>Gentlebeings,
>
>apologies for the level of this question, but what do the double-headed
>arrows in FF&S2 mean? I've been in coldsleep for about 8 years and I never
>saw anything like them before.

They are the traditional Vilani symbol for multiplication.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #231
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, March 2 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 232



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Call for submissions/JTAS/TWG list
Re: Trading (was: Next Software Project)
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: Trading (was: Next Software Project)
Re:Trading (was: Next Software Project)
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: Nuclear dampers: alternative uses
Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]
Trade & Commerce Utility
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Electronic Adventures
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: Standardized Cargo
Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 12:39:03 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

At 03:01 PM 01/03/98 -0700, Dave Golden wrote:
>
>	Note that you *can* create PDF files from which the end-user can copy text
>and/or graphics for use in personal universes. Greg Porter creates his that
>way.

If that is the case, then I'm fine with PDF, as long as it's done that way.
I very seldom run adventures stright from the book these days, and it's be
annoying to have to write extra notes the old way, when it's all on disk
ready to be edited.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:47:46 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Call for submissions/JTAS/TWG list

	HIWG's fanzine is looking for article submissions.
	These include Amber Zone type write-ups, Patron Encounters, sector write-up
with Library Data.
	The fanzine will be both paper and electronically published.

	I'm also looking for submissions for a possible revived JTAS. A post in the
next couple of days will cover roughly what's desired.

	Also I'm opening up the TWG list to interested people. However, posts to that
list will be restricted, generally unless a list has something to do with
writing or a review/commentary on material being submitted it should remain on
the other lists.

	To join send a message to Majorodomo@qrc.com, subscribe hiwg-twg
[youraddress].



Bryan Borich

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 00:02:05 +0000
From: TGL <marc.davison@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: Trading (was: Next Software Project)

Rob Prior wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, that depends on what rules you want to use.

TNE
 
> DGP had a trading program for the MegaTraveller rules (which are very
> similar to the T4 rules).  I never got it, because I prefer my own
> homebrew system. (Shameless plug follows)

Where can I find it?

> I based my system on the Classic Traveller rules, where speculative trade
> dealt in specific goods with varying proces and characteristics.  Not
> liking being limited to just 36 goods, I created a modified system that
> would let the referee generate a "Trade Table" for a planet, which
> functioned like an Animal Encounter Table during game play.  You can find
> the full details at
> <www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/trade.html>

I've not play CT in over 10 years, I came to TNE 4 yrs ago after playing
Runequest for a long time.  But that's beside the point.  While coding
the T&C utility today, I came across something that I would like
clarified.
On page 236 of TNE in the Trade and Commerce Flowcharts, it mentions
that if the market world is a RED zone then there is a -8 DM, and no low
or middle passengers.  Does this guidline hold true for steerage
passengers?

> Noting that rolling up tables is boring, I expanded Metator to generate
> trade tables as well as animal encounter tables. To make things as simple
> as possible during the game, Metator has a one-page report giving the
> referee everything he or she needs to handle a merchant: the die rolls for
> freight and passengers, with DMs, local currency values (and both official
> and 'street' exchange rates), and the trade table.

What is 'Metator' ?
 
Find a cliff, jump first, think later... SPLAT!
MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 00:07:47 +0000
From: TGL <marc.davison@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> 
> For adventures in particular I think I'd prefer to buy them over the
> Internet at a low price. Many adventures get used only once and never again
> referred to, so perhaps it's a better medium.
> 
> People would have to be convinced to buy them, though. And they'd have to
> be a good bit cheaper than the equivalent paper product
> 
> For example, I put a novel out recently through an internet publisher, at
> 2.25 for 100,000 words. Helf the price of the paperback seems fair when
> you consider the lower overheads.
> 
> (the above was a plug. Apologies!)
> 
> Point is, you could use the lower overheads to allow you to publish large
> numbers of adventures in a directory. Make a couple public as samples, then
> charge for the rest.
> 
> I can see that working, and I'd use it.
> 
> Thoughts, anyone?
> 
> MJD.

I don't know the details of payments for Intelectual material on the
net, but I would pay for material, even if it had to be sent snail mail,
and I had to send a cheque to the seller.  
This holds true especially if the material is for TNE or generic, so it
can be modified to suit TNE.

Find a cliff, jump first, think later... SPLAT!
MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 00:08:29 +0000
From: TGL <marc.davison@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

Did you get my email last monday?

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 00:02:05 +0000
From: TGL <marc.davison@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: Trading (was: Next Software Project)

Rob Prior wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, that depends on what rules you want to use.

TNE
 
> DGP had a trading program for the MegaTraveller rules (which are very
> similar to the T4 rules).  I never got it, because I prefer my own
> homebrew system. (Shameless plug follows)

Where can I find it?

> I based my system on the Classic Traveller rules, where speculative trade
> dealt in specific goods with varying proces and characteristics.  Not
> liking being limited to just 36 goods, I created a modified system that
> would let the referee generate a "Trade Table" for a planet, which
> functioned like an Animal Encounter Table during game play.  You can find
> the full details at
> <www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/trade.html>

I've not play CT in over 10 years, I came to TNE 4 yrs ago after playing
Runequest for a long time.  But that's beside the point.  While coding
the T&C utility today, I came across something that I would like
clarified.
On page 236 of TNE in the Trade and Commerce Flowcharts, it mentions
that if the market world is a RED zone then there is a -8 DM, and no low
or middle passengers.  Does this guidline hold true for steerage
passengers?

> Noting that rolling up tables is boring, I expanded Metator to generate
> trade tables as well as animal encounter tables. To make things as simple
> as possible during the game, Metator has a one-page report giving the
> referee everything he or she needs to handle a merchant: the die rolls for
> freight and passengers, with DMs, local currency values (and both official
> and 'street' exchange rates), and the trade table.

What is 'Metator' ?
 
Find a cliff, jump first, think later... SPLAT!
MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 19:33:08 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re:Trading (was: Next Software Project)

traveller@mpgn.com,Internet writes:
>Rob, it's going to be a while before you make Metator available for the
>PC,
>so in the interim shouldn't it be possible to do a quick and dirty
>spreadsheet to generate trade tables using your method?  Something in
>Excel
>or 123 format could be read (or converted into something usable) by most
>people.

It should be. As I said, all the details are on the web site.  Feel free,
Eris.

I may be able to find me a 486 computer which will let me write Windows
software.  This may speed things up a bit.  

Failing that, it would make a dandy summer project using my Dad's
computer. So, although it's a sacrifice, if the TML demands that I visit
the West Coast again and suffer a surfeit of Mom's cooking while being
bothered by whales and eagles, and that damned salt tang with the bloody
breezes whispering through the cedars, well, I guess as a loyal Traveller
fan I'd just have to go. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:35:21 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 03/01/98 at 07:56 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:
> 
> >I discussed something like this with Andy Lilly a while ago - making the
> >101 books available over the web with a credit card order. However we
> >decided against it in the end due to the risk of piracy  of the material
> >:-< Even with passworded files it's too easy. Photocopying a book is much
> >more hassle. I doubt you will see the 101 series or any adventures
> >BITS/CORE prepares available that way.
> 
> Yes, it's a concern of mine too. I don't think anyone has come up with the
> answer to the copy and redistribute problem, and that is going to delay and
> if we don't find an answer, probably, kill commercial electronic
> publication. Of course, it's the same problem electronic distribution of
> software has been facing. The ultimate answer might have to be trusting to
> the honesty of your customers...says Eris the cynic.

Well, it's the same problem NON-electronic distribution of software faces,
and music, and videos and...and...and... Point is, we don't see _those_
kinds of publications being killed, do we? Piracy is a problem, but it
really isn't the crippling problem it's made out to be (after all, despite
huge problems of piracy, Sony Music certainly managed to make a
bucket-load of money last year...)

Part of the problem may be the way people look at the problem. People
copying such books are unlikely to be paying customers anyway, much like
software warez collectors, you know the 14-year old kids with 4 Gb of
software they haven't got a clue how to use or any desire to learn...it's
just another trophy in their collection. 

Being a _very_ satisfied customer of BTRC's electronic formats, I will say
I'm quite willing to consider buying electronic forms of books and
supplements.

The advantages of electronic publishing are hard to beat: instant
gratification for your customers (or as instant as their modem lets them
be ;-), close to zero production costs beyond the original book layout (if
you're web based, your costs amount to printing the book to Adobe Acrobat
instead of a printer, and spending an hour or so setting up a web page).

The only cost you have to bear is paying the credit card companies their
cut, maintaining a secure web site, and the costs with actually producing
the content...which, in the case of books and the kinds of adventure
supplements we're speaking of here, are dwarfed by the costs of producing
and distributing a paper based product. (that's why I STILL can't easily
buy BITS products here in the states.) 

Y'all at BITS might want to consider the fact that electronic publishing
will get you sales you won't get, anyway, in paper form, due to
distribution costs.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 19:36:55 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

I'd vote for PDF, because it's cross-platform.  You can edit/copy if
that's how you have set the document up.

Hm. Imagine having customizable play aids. For example, a contract where
the referee could edit the signatories and name of planet to suit their
universe. The template for an Imperial Passport.  ID for SuSAG.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 17:45:16 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

At 12:39 pm 3/2/98 +1300, you wrote:
>At 03:01 PM 01/03/98 -0700, Dave Golden wrote:
>>
>>	Note that you *can* create PDF files from which the end-user can copy
text
>>and/or graphics for use in personal universes. Greg Porter creates his
that
>>way.
>
>If that is the case, then I'm fine with PDF, as long as it's done that
way.
>I very seldom run adventures stright from the book these days, and it's be
>annoying to have to write extra notes the old way, when it's all on disk
>ready to be edited.

	I wouldn't go so far as to say it's ready to be edited. If the file is
created with the right options, you can copy straight text (losing the
formatting), or images, out of the file. It still won't be convenient for
full-scale rewriting.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 17:24:59 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Nuclear dampers: alternative uses

> lartibartfast did this in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, didn't he? 
> Or was that fossils?
> 
> Simon


Actually, I think he made "continent toupe's".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 17:41:31 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]

> This is something I've always wondered about, but was too lazy to check up
> on...  When I was in Germany, I saw a number of CDs that tipped the scales at
> over 70 minutes, however, in the U.S. I don't think I've ever seen one that
> tops 63 or 64 minutes.  I remember somebody warning me that a number of CD
> players have problems playing CDs that go over 65 minutes.
> 
> Does anyone know if this is true, and why?
> 

I once had a bootleg "Melissa Ethenridge" CD that was over 70 minutes
and my CD player worked erratically with it.  Played it once, then
wouldn't even access the directory track the next time.

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  2 Mar 98 01:20:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Trade & Commerce Utility

On Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:34:21 Marc Davison <marc.davison@virgin.net> Wrote...

> Another thought for a project is something I have started, that is a
> Trade & Commerce Utility, works out all those numbing numbers/dice rolls
> that usually only need attention during a game session.
    Yes!  This would be extremely useful!  I have an old Mac PowerBook I use to
hold all my written notes for my campaigns and such during play.  Having a
Utility to handle all the GM stuff during play would be... Wonderful!

> I'm not trying to steal your thunder Rob, but since the subject has
> been broached, I would like to know what sort of interest there is
> in a Trading utility, or has it already been done.
    Count me in as interested!

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 14:36:20 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

At 05:45 PM 01/03/98 -0700, Dave Golden wrote:
>At 12:39 pm 3/2/98 +1300, you wrote:
>>I very seldom run adventures stright from the book these days, and it's be
>>annoying to have to write extra notes the old way, when it's all on disk
>>ready to be edited.
>
>	I wouldn't go so far as to say it's ready to be edited. If the file is
>created with the right options, you can copy straight text (losing the
>formatting), or images, out of the file. It still won't be convenient for
>full-scale rewriting.

I meant that at least it's on the machine. Even with loss of the formatting
cut-and-paste is much, much better than hours of copy typing.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:10:55 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Electronic Adventures

Eris Reddochsaith,  in regards to Publishing stuff via the Internet

>On 03/01/98 at 07:56 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:
>
>>I discussed something like this with Andy Lilly a while ago - making the
>>101 books available over the web with a credit card order. However we
>>decided against it in the end due to the risk of piracy  of the material
>>:-< Even with passworded files it's too easy. Photocopying a book is much
>>more hassle. I doubt you will see the 101 series or any adventures
>>BITS/CORE prepares available that way.
>
>Yes, it's a concern of mine too. I don't think anyone has come up with the
>answer to the copy and redistribute problem, and that is going to delay and
>if we don't find an answer, probably, kill commercial electronic
>publication. 

Absolutely. When someone copies a book, that's a book that the publisher
didn't get paid for. Lost sales mean the profit margin is slimmer, and result
in less money for other products. Take this to too big an extreme, and there
is a technical term for this that I learned at a Dogbert Business Seminar(tm):
"Death Spiral.

Loren Wiseman 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:30:54 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

Dear Mr. Wiseman;

That's why all of us "Traveller Grognards" have been pestering you and Mr.
Miller to re-publish all of the old CT books, Supplements, Modules, etc. As an
example, there is a hardcover reprint of all 8 Alien Modules floating around,
selling for 250 DMarks. I think that a reprint by SJ games (especially since
Imperium games is on hold) would generate a nice chunk of change. Of course I
also argued this point about reprinting Ogre and was told it wasn't
profitable...

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 17:17:04 +1300
From: "Douglas D, Law School Computer Support" <DOUGLASD@waikato.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
>CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
>>This is draft material from the world generation charts for T4.1
 ..
>Going to fill in other allegiances in the chart below:
>
>ALLEGIANCES
 ...
>Rebellion era:
>
>Du - Dulinor's Faction
>Ma - Margaret's Faction
>St - Strephon's Imperium
>Da - Daibei
>Zs - the *NEW* improved Ziru Sirka
>(Probably leaving some out)

 MT Imperial Encyclopedia, page 94 has the following allegiance codes
 in addition or in conflict:

 As - Aslan New Lords
 Bw - Border Worlds
 Da - Darrian Confederation	[conflicts with Da = Daibei]
 Dr - Droyne World
 Fa - Federation of Arden
 Sw - Sword World

 TNE uses LI to indicate Lucan's Imperium - perhaps this idea could be
 reused for the Rebellion, ie,

 Di - Dulinor's Imperium
 Mi - Margaret's Imperium
 Si - Strephon's Imperium
 
 this would emphasise the "shattered imperium" nature of the rebellion
 era.

 as noted, Da is already in use for the Darrian Confederation, perhaps
 Db for Daibei?

>New Era:
>
>Rc - Reformation Coalition
>Re - Regency
>Wi - Wilds, unaligned inhabited
>Co - Covenant of Sufrain
>(for the life of me, I can't remember the name of that pocket empire that the
>Reformation Coalition was up against)

 So - Empire of Solee.  allegiance code from the map our GM has given
 out as a player aid.

 Sufrain is also (IIRC) more properly Sufren? (will check)

D.
___________________________________________________________________________
Douglas D.          Computer Support, School of Law, Waikato University, NZ
douglasd@waikato.ac.nz  :  64-7-856 2889 x6258 (ph)  :  64-7-838 4417 (fax)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 20:30:38 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

Sethkimmel wrote:
> 
> Dear Mr. Wiseman;
> 
> That's why all of us "Traveller Grognards" have been pestering you and Mr.
> Miller to re-publish all of the old CT books, Supplements, Modules, etc. As an
> example, there is a hardcover reprint of all 8 Alien Modules floating around,
> selling for 250 DMarks. I think that a reprint by SJ games (especially since
> Imperium games is on hold) would generate a nice chunk of change. Of course I
> also argued this point about reprinting Ogre and was told it wasn't
> profitable...
> 
> Seth


I agree.  Either reprint the books so loyal fans can buy what they
missed, or shut up about circulated photocopies.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:27:18 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

>Well, it's the same problem NON-electronic distribution of software faces,
>and music, and videos and...and...and... Point is, we don't see _those_
>kinds of publications being killed, do we? Piracy is a problem, but it
>really isn't the crippling problem it's made out to be (after all, despite
>huge problems of piracy, Sony Music certainly managed to make a
>bucket-load of money last year...)

Exactly.  Let's look at it this way.  You/We/Whatever would be turning out
reasonably priced adventures to a very select group of people (Traveller
players).  They would have some cross genre appeal possibly, but it isn't like
everyone's going to be knocking down the door to pirate the thing.  In
addition, since this group of Traveller fans is probably a good portion of
the Trav fans on the internet, any attempt at pirating the software on the web
would come to somebody's attention at some point.

Other than that, you're not going to stop people from giving it to their
friends, and nor should you.  It's wasted time and effort.  People are going
to copy music CDs to tape, photo-copy useful articles from magazines, and give
software to their friends to copy.  Legal or illegal, right or wrong, it is
happening and will continue to happen.  Personally, I think that this idea is
fantastic and would like to participate in it, as an adventure or supplement
author or whatever.  I would also be willing to put up money to start the
business.  My money is meager, but I'd really like to see this happen and get
off the ground.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:47:37 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

> So - Empire of Solee.  allegiance code from the map our GM has given
> out as a player aid.

That's the one I couldn't remember!

> Sufrain is also (IIRC) more properly Sufren? (will check)

My apologies.  You're probably right.  I was running from memory, not from the
books.  It didn't look right, but, just spelled it the way I was pronouncing
it in my head.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 18:57:10 +1300
From: "Douglas D, Law School Computer Support" <DOUGLASD@waikato.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

I wrote:
>> So - Empire of Solee.  allegiance code from the map our GM has given
>> out as a player aid.

 whoops.  allegiance: "So" is actually "Solomani Confederation."

D.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:59:17 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

- -----Original Message-----
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

>I agree.  Either reprint the books so loyal fans can buy what they
>missed, or shut up about circulated photocopies.

J-Man,

I can understand your fustration, and I'm sure Loren can as well. However,
this is a bit of over reaction IMHO. Loren is talking about the thing that
puts food on his tables. I can understand his point of veiw, and I think you
can as well, and he can understand yours (I beleive I read an article once
that talked about the original GDW group using photocopied D&D rules until
the books became available). This is no reason to be so abrupt to him
however. He has bent over backwards, far far more than many, in any industy,
to provide information to the members of this List, and should be thanked
for it, not snapped at because he can't take a very substabtial financial
risk to reprint books you and I would like to have, but are only (be
realistic now) valuable to a very small market.

Truth be told, there's been enough mention of piracy (of commercial
products) on this list that if he or any of the other authors wanted to
cause problems they certainly could!

On the main subject of this thread... What would it take to get a licence
for web publishing? Does the application go to Far Frointer Enterprises? or
to IG (considering their current unknown status, probably not, but...) and
what does such a licence cost and entail?

As far as a web re-print of Shadows (by the way Rob the graphics are great,
however...) this involves GDW the original author (I don't have the book any
more so I can't look it up), and any number of other tangles. I'd think a
totally new adventure might be a better choice. Anyone out there got
something appropriate?

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:43:30 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Standardized Cargo

On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, GypsyComet wrote:

> Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> says:
> 
>  Actually, check out Tommy Grav's website, and specifically his shipyard
> files, at:

Someone has visited my website, I'm in shock ;-)
> 
>   http://www.ifi.uio.no/~tommyg/Trav/Trav_equip.html

I have actually moved my webpages to my new institute, and have some
updated versions of the ships in the Marketplace section of my Terran
Confederation pages which can be found at 

     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/TRAVELLER/main.html

> 
>  for his Anderson-class freighter. It looks rather like what you are
> suggesting, though he uses 50-DTon containers.
 
What I envisioned was large pre-packed containers being shuttled into
orbit, where a unstreamlined jumpcapable vessel just grabbed them and
started to prepare for jump.

>   Speaking of Tommy Grav's site, I can't seem to find the deckplan
> file for his Hawk-class liner. Has anyone seen this?

Ooops, a small mistake on my part here. I have the deckplans on my
homecomputer. I'll try to find them and put them up as soon as possible.

> GypsyComet
> 

Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somewhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 08:04:43 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]

On Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:40:10 EST, SemoFetus wrote:

> >Actually, 'CD' quality is 16 or more bits, not 8. Most CD player A/D
> >converters are 24 bit. At that rate an hour of 'CD' quality sound is about
> >450 mb, or not so coincidentally, the recording capacity of a 60 minute
> >CD. 74 minute ones are 650 mb. These sizes are determined by the dominant
> >player in the CD biz, which is the audio industry.
> 
> This is something I've always wondered about, but was too lazy to check up
> on...  When I was in Germany, I saw a number of CDs that tipped the scales at
> over 70 minutes, however, in the U.S. I don't think I've ever seen one that
> tops 63 or 64 minutes.

That's because your musical tastes don't include... The Ramones!

RAMONESmania (1988) is *76:03* long, and it plays fine on my Sony 10-disc
changer, Yamaha carousel, and Toshiba x4 & x24 CD-ROM drives (haven't tried
it on the HP7100 yet).  Anyone care to guess how many tracks?


Oh, and if you use Windows '95, might I suggest grabbing a copy of
NotifyCD?  This little bit of *freeware* takes up a minuscule amount of
screen real estate (ie: it resides in your system tray just like the normal
Windows Audio Player) and includes an internet link capable of pulling CD
data from a library of thousands.  Just pop in a CD, connect to the net,
and it will query the nearest database.  If the data exists, NotifyCD's
library file will automatically be updated with album title, song titles,
etc.  The CDDB server gets over 400 new entries each and every day and I
haven't had to input my own data yet (and I listen to some pretty weird
stuff).



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #232
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, March 2 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 233



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

News & Gratuitous Violence
Re IG Info --- I told you so!
Re: Electronic Adventures
Cargo container sizes
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: GURPS TNS
Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)
Re: Possible NPC (longish)
Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)
Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures
Re: Possible NPC (longish)
Re: Social levels
taglines
Re: Possible NPC (longish)
Re: Electronic Adventures
T4.1?
Re: Character Generations and Social Levels

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 00:43:27 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: News & Gratuitous Violence

>Also, remember, much of the press coverage of the war was manipulated to
>the strategic and tactical ends of the Allied commanders.
>
>obTrav: How much control will Imperial forces have over press coverage of
>their battlefields? How often will 'news' sources in the very 19th century
>Imperialist 3I be mouthpieces for the powers that be? Look at the role of
>newspapers in many events in the late 19th-early 20th Century. Take the
>Spanish-American war...as much of the impetus for the war was stirred up
>by Hearst's newspapers as by any politician

  As much as they need, as far as interstellar goes. Isn't that the
definition of normal 3I jurisdiction? It doesn't matter how far to
the appropriate politcial decision making level if you make sure the
muckrakers never get through your cordon. Security, right?

  Actually, I just read the JG adventure "Tancred" that I ordered from
Titan Games (www.titan-games.com) for the low price of $4 new, and it
has lots of the above elements in it. Planetary unrest, a political
scene where all is not as it seems, typos, terrorism, firefights, more
typoes (sic), miscellaneous gratuitous violence, and lots of opportunities
for exploring the limits of the Imperial Rules of War - like house to
house clearance supported by 120mm SP gun-howitzers. Order it - you know
you'll like it :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:47:52 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re IG Info --- I told you so!

On Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:12:17 -0500, you wrote:

>John R. Snead wrote:
>[snip]
>
>> Begin Forwarded Message
>> -------------------------------------------------
>> The following statement has been issued from Imperium Games
>> regarding outstanding freelance payments.
>>
>> Wednesday, February 18, 1998
>>
>> Dear Freelancers:
>>
>> I regret to inform you that due to the low performance of Traveller
>> products in the marketplace, Imperium Games must undergo a reorganization
>> to address the debts owed to its various vendors.

OK, lots of you were claiming I was overly pessimistic about IG's survival.

Certainly looks like it is increasingly unlikely, doesn't it?

>> We will also allow the freelancers to
>> retain the rights to the materials prepared by them, provided we may still
>> sell our backlist products as these revenues will be used to facilitate
>> the pay-off agreements we make.
>
>[snip]
>
>> Of course, individuals may retain the rights to the material they created,
>> however, 25% is the best we can do in this regard.

Looks very much like I can (provisionally, of course ;-) say "I told you so."

I would suggest that the above communication suggests strongly that T4.1 will
never be published *by IG* ... and that, increasingly, the near term future of
Traveller will be with GURPSTrav.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:53:39 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

>Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 20:30:38 -0800
>From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
>Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

>I agree.  Either reprint the books so loyal fans can buy what they
>missed, or shut up about circulated photocopies.

You probably weren't around when Marc posted this, so I've taken the liberty
of reposting it.

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 05:18:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Once upon a time, when D&D was still new, just about everyone at GDW made
aphotocopy of the basic D&D books because they were not yet available in
evnough volume for everyone to have their own copy.

Once the sets became available, we all went out and bought them and discarded
the photocopies... which were just inferior.

If someone makes a photocopy for his or her own use, that is called fair use,
as long as it's not the whole product, and as long as its not for resale.
That includes copying someone else's copy of the product.

That is especially true if the product itself is not currently available (ie
CT or Mt, probably not for T4).

When someone starts photocopying multtiple copies for others, then it gets to
be infringement.

Personally, if you want a specific work which isn't in print and you can get
a photocopy, I think that's OK.

Marc

*******************************************************************

As far as I see, that answers that :*>

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"15 into 1 does go, I'm living proof"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:21:59 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Cargo container sizes

If anyone's interested, the types of cargo container listed in "101 Cargos"
(from British Isles Traveller Support - BITS) include:

Container Size
Code	Description
0	C0 (small containers up to 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5 m)
1	C1 (1 m3; 1.0 x 1.0 x 1.0 m)
2	C3 (3 m3; 3.0 x 1.0 x 1.0 m)
3	C9 (9 m3; 3.0 x 3.0 x 1.0 m)
4	C27 (27 m3; 3.0 x 3.0 x 3.0 m)
5	C54 (54 m3; 3.0 x 3.0 x 6.0 m)
6	C81 (81 m3; 3.0 x 3.0 x 9.0 m)
7	C108 (108 m3; 3.0 x 6.0 x 6.0 m)
8	C162 (162 m3; 3.0 x 6.0 x 9.0 m)
9	Non-standard configuration

These are standards in my game, although the absolute size, shape, inner
dimensions, etc. of any given container may vary downwards for a given
manufacturer by up to 10%.

Andy :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 01:17:52 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

> I can understand your fustration, and I'm sure Loren can as well. However,
> this is a bit of over reaction IMHO. Loren is talking about the thing that
> puts food on his tables. I can understand his point of veiw, and I think you
> can as well, and he can understand yours (I beleive I read an article once
> that talked about the original GDW group using photocopied D&D rules until
> the books became available). This is no reason to be so abrupt to him
> however. He has bent over backwards, far far more than many, in any industy,
> to provide information to the members of this List, and should be thanked
> for it, not snapped at because he can't take a very substabtial financial
> risk to reprint books you and I would like to have, but are only (be
> realistic now) valuable to a very small market.

My reply wasn't aimed at Loren, and perhaps I should have made that
clear.  My problem is with materials that are almost impossible to get a
hold of, which are never going to be re-released because of the reasons
you mention above.  Marc himself said that using photocopies was fine
with him, a few months ago when this topic came up last.

No one wants 'photocopies' as a final result, but with a finite amount
of real copies floating around, some of us will HAVE to be satisfied
with them or NOTHING.  To me, "Nothing" is unacceptable.  Classic
traveller was done very well IMHO and I really didn't see any need to
change it or stop making it.  Those decisions were made by others and I
am powerless to change that fact.

I may buy new Traveller stuff like the upcoming T4.1, but only to use as
ideas for my own classic Traveller games.  I'm sure others on this list
have their own preferences as well.

I am all for photocopies if real material cannot be had, I am NOT for
piracy, i.e. copying an author's hard work and selling it to others.  I
used to be a pretty heavy software pirate and hacker back in the very
old days (mid to late 80's) but since then have changed.  I firmly
believe that when an author has created a product people find extremely
useful, they have a right to be justly compensated for their hard work
and effort.

For example, who here knows of a Telecom program called "Telemate"? 
Back when I used to do the local BBS scene, I used this program
heavily.  It was shareware, but the author chose not to disbale ANYTHING
in it.  One could use it forever and never register it.  I found this
program so useful I felt strongly that I needed to compensate the
creator for writing such a useful program.  I paid the 35 dollars and
felt good about it.

I have used programs, however, that were not worth anything, and have
erased them.  Sometimes I found useful programs I liked, but because the
shareware version was handicapped, I erased the program and used
something else.  Certainly the author that does no cripple his software
takes a big risk, but rather than believing people are generally evil
and will not pay for things, I choose to think that the core of users
who do not pay are a small minority.

Well, I think I've wasted enough bandwidth on this subject.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:33:23 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com> wrote:

>> Sufrain is also (IIRC) more properly Sufren? (will check)
>
>My apologies.  You're probably right.  I was running from memory, not from the
>books.  It didn't look right, but, just spelled it the way I was pronouncing
>it in my head.

It is "Suffren".

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:31:52 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

 J-Man <j-man@iname.com> wrote:

>Sethkimmel wrote:
>>
>> Dear Mr. Wiseman;
>>
>> That's why all of us "Traveller Grognards" have been pestering you and Mr.
>> Miller to re-publish all of the old CT books, Supplements, Modules, etc.
>>As an
>> example, there is a hardcover reprint of all 8 Alien Modules floating
>>around,
>> selling for 250 DMarks. I think that a reprint by SJ games (especially since
>> Imperium games is on hold) would generate a nice chunk of change. Of
>>course I
>> also argued this point about reprinting Ogre and was told it wasn't
>> profitable...
>>
>> Seth
>
>
>I agree.  Either reprint the books so loyal fans can buy what they
>missed, or shut up about circulated photocopies.

Ahem. A little vituperative that. And unnecessary.

The context of the discussion was about BITS distributing books
electronically. The earlier discussion did mention CT in passing. And I
seem to recall Marc allowing people to copy CT/MT material if they can't
get hold of it on the basis that they will get it when they can. No-one has
slammed people obtaining copies of the out of print material for their own
use. The criticism has been directed at people copying/distibuting
currently available material, specifically with regards to the effects of
publishing current work electronically.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:07:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS TNS

Dom Mooney wrote;
> GDWGames wrote;
<Snip>
> Kenji, have you been playing with Loren's food and drink again?
> 
> ><FNORD ON>
> >Loren needs his dosage adjusted -- he's beginning to ramble, and he's starting
> >to fixate on lists of unconnected questions again. Focus! Focus!
> ><FNORD OFF>
> 
> Okay, I think I'm going to have to ask the question...
> 
> FNORD?

You're not cleared for that, sorry.

Scott taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:47:34 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors

Leonard Erickson sed,

>In mail you write:
>
>> Can anyone tell me why glow-in-the-dark materials - the kind that absorb
>> energy from bright light and then emit for several hours - are seemingly
>> available only in a pale greenish-white color? Why not other colors? 
>
>There *is* one other color that I've seen. I have an old glow in the
>dark religious statue I was given as a child. It glows a whitish blue,
>tending towards violet.

That's right - I've seen whitish-blue stuff, too, now you mention it.

>The glow in the dark materials work by getting noloecules energized by
>exposure to normal light, and then over time the molecules return to
>the "ground" state by emitting photons of a *lower* frequency than the
>ones that "charged" them.
[snip]
>The trouble is that due to thermo dynamic and quantum considerations
>the emitted light has to be lower frequency than the charging light.
>And likewise it tends to decay expontentially (like radioactive half
>lives).

So I figured. Still, if there's bluish-white stuff, that's toward the high
frequency end of the spectrum, with the more-common greenish-white stuff
below that, suggesting to me that pale yellow, orange and pink stuff ought
to be possible - indeed they ought to glow more brightly, for longer
periods, if I understand you correctly.

>The higher the frequency of the emitted light, the *dimmer* the light
>will be, simply because there's less likely to be as much "charging"
>light of a high enough frequency to charge the molecules.

Makes sense. This would also seem to suggest that my theoretical pale
yellow, orange, and pink stuff would actually be *brighter* than the green
stuff, if it existed. Hmmmm...

>This is also why you don't get bright or "saturated" colors. 

Gotcha. The stuff is gonna be pale, whatever the frequency.

>To get what you'd like there'd have to be a power source *somewhere*.

Right. Electroluminescent paint would be cool. It's canonical, too: on page
66 of T4 Book 1, under "Display Screens", Greg Porter nicely describes how
the "electrical conductors and luminescent elements are sprayed on in
layers." (Ghod I luv Greg's equipment write-ups.)

I just think the photoluminescent stuff is neat because it'd be cheaper and
wouldn't require such elaborate application technology. Just a spray can.

>The energy storage in the "glow in the dark" molecules is pretty lousy.
>But if you make it too efficient, you either won't get the light back
>out, or you run the risk of it releasing a bit more strongly than you'd
>like (fire or even explosion hazard).

Yikes. Good point.

I've written up my conception of glow-in-the-dark "lightpaint", which I'll
be posting soon (along with a huge whack of other nifty gadgetry). I figure
that the half-life can be longer at higher Tech Levels.

>(BTW, try
>using a blacklight to "charge" the glow in the dark stuff. It'll do a
>better job, faster in most cases).

More fun with blacklights: I knew a guy in high school who painted weird
and obscene graffiti all over the basement rec-room - graffiti his parents
couldn't see because he used UV paint. When the parental units were away,
he and his friends would switch on their UV lamp and smoke up, surrounded
by trippy graffiti. Some day someone's going to install a fluorescent lamp
in that room and get the shock of their life.

Thanks for the comments, Leonard, I knew you'd have some coherent answers.

Best, 

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 01:05:25 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

>Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:59:17 -0500
>From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
>Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

>As far as a web re-print of Shadows (by the way Rob the graphics are great,
>however...) this involves GDW the original author (I don't have the book any
>more so I can't look it up), and any number of other tangles. I'd think a
>totally new adventure might be a better choice. Anyone out there got
>something appropriate?

Well for the last couple of months Myself and a few others have been slowly
working on a sourcebook for the Spinward Marches in M:0 which is intended for
free electronic publication. It was always intended to include a brief
adventure in it. The adventure is only very briefly sketched, but it involves
a Luriani musician, the search for a lost colony, Imperial intrigue, Vargr
merchants and corsairs etc.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"15 into 1 does go, I'm living proof"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:51:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

In mail you write:

> Using a lossy first-gen image encoding scheme like .gif or .png as an
> example is like precluding audio bugs because we can't get the vaccuum
> tubes small or low power enough.

Bruce, this must be some usage of the word "lossy" that I am not
familiar with. Both GIF and PNG are zero loss compression formats.
JPEG, on the other hand *is* lossy.

So is Fractal compression. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:04:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

In mail you write:

> Your homeworld has a Class C starport.
> Your homeworld's size is Small.
> Your homeworld has a Vacuum atmosphere.
> Your homeworld is a Wet World
> Your homeworld has a Population in the hundred-millions.
> Your homeworld has a Law Level of 2.
> Your homeworld has a Tech Level of C.

Vacuum *and* Wet? I think there's a bug...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:45:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)

In mail you write:

>> ne hour of "CD quality" audio is 44000 (digitization rate) x1 (bytes
>> per sample) x3600 (seconds per hour) bytes, or about 158 meg. One hour
>> of "telephone quality" audio is 4000 (digitization rate) x1 (bytes per
>> sample) x 3600 (seconds per hour) or about 14 meg. Both are for
>> uncompressed data.
>
> How can this be true?  If I use a WAV editor in win95 to record from a
> CD, it gives me at MOST 3-5 minutes on a 2.1 gig hard drive that is
> mostly empty.  We're talking 16bit audio, stereo, at standard CD
> sampling rates of 44,000Khz.

Taking another look at my figures. I have *one* byte per sample. That's
8-bit *mono* sound. Also, the biggest WAV file I have is only a couple
of meg and plays for at least a minute (I don't have  sound card
installed right now so I can't check). I'd try defragging the drive and
trying again. It's also quite possible that the recording software has
a stupid limit like that. 

Anyway, 16bit *doubles* the size. Stereo doubles it again. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:06:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures

In mail you write:

> Hi, I've got a question about the efficiency of Sensors against planet
> based targets.
> Exactly how powerful they can be? What can you detect/identify from a
> starship in orbit? Life forms, energy sources, and to which level of detail?
>
> Supposing I had to hide something on a planet, which kind of
> countermeasures should I apply? Should I put my secret installation below
> the surface? What about submarine sites? Or under ice? Would heavy
> vegetation help? What about scientifically enhanced defenses, like
> genetically manipulated plants?

A lot depends on the atmosphere. Without an atmosphere the level of
detail you can pick up is limited only by the size of the sensor array.

But here on earth, even from a low" orbit you aren't going to be able
to resolve details much less than a foot acroos. At the outside you'd
be able to tell whether or not a car had a license plate, but not what
state, much less what the number was.

For IR, being underground or underwater helps. The deeper you are the
more spread out the resulting "hot spot" is.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:26:05 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Your homeworld has a Class C starport.
> > Your homeworld's size is Small.
> > Your homeworld has a Vacuum atmosphere.
> > Your homeworld is a Wet World
> > Your homeworld has a Population in the hundred-millions.
> > Your homeworld has a Law Level of 2.
> > Your homeworld has a Tech Level of C.
> 
> Vacuum *and* Wet? I think there's a bug...

Wouldn't iscovered planets be covered under wet?

> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)

Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somewhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:10:54 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Social levels

doug snyder writes:

>How about Soc Level ^ 2 * 100 = Cr  per month for expenses.

Reality check: Middle Class (SL 7) would spend 7^2 * 100 = Cr4900 per
month. Average food costs Cr200/month, average accomodations costs
Cr200/month. So a middle class person would spend 4% on food, 4% on
accomodations and 92% on other things.

How about SL+2 * 50 as the minimum to keep up standards, with people
usually spending about SL*10% more if they have the money (With SLs 
above 10 completely outside this system, since people can spend an
enormous amount of money if they have it).



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "This gives a possible range of 56 to 178 starships
         total  in the three Terran starport facilities,  a
         believable quantity for such a star system."

        "We have a maximum of 178 ships in port, and (as it
         is a busy star system)  we will say that there are
         70 docking berths at the Phoenix facility."

                        ---Journal of the Traveller's
                           Aid Society # 22

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:13:42 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: taglines

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) quoted Peter Brenton:
>>                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
>>"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
>>  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

And added:

>Can I nominate this for the "best TML .sig/quote of 1998" award?  It's
>early in the year, I know, but this is great.


It is a good one, and one I may adopt.  But for me the *favourite* still
has to be from back in January and David Reed's:

"Yea, though I post to the Traveller Mailing List, I will fear no egos."

Just seemed so apposite.

tc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:04:39 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

>> Your homeworld has a Class C starport.
>> Your homeworld's size is Small.
>> Your homeworld has a Vacuum atmosphere.
>> Your homeworld is a Wet World
>> Your homeworld has a Population in the hundred-millions.
>> Your homeworld has a Law Level of 2.
>> Your homeworld has a Tech Level of C.
>
>Vacuum *and* Wet? I think there's a bug...

Don't they know think there's ice on the moon ? would kind of suggest
Vacume and Wet is OK ...

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 05:29:12 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

> The context of the discussion was about BITS distributing books
> electronically. The earlier discussion did mention CT in passing. And I
> seem to recall Marc allowing people to copy CT/MT material if they can't
> get hold of it on the basis that they will get it when they can. No-one has
> slammed people obtaining copies of the out of print material for their own
> use. The criticism has been directed at people copying/distibuting
> currently available material, specifically with regards to the effects of
> publishing current work electronically.
> 
> Dom
> 


Then I am in error, and apologize.  I picked up on the CT and not the
current stuff.  I agree, currently available stuff should NOT be copied
and distributed.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 08:26:17 -0500
From: Brian McNeilly <mcneilly@crosskeys.com>
Subject: T4.1?

OK, so I'm new to the list. Can someone tell me what this T4.1 is?
Is this a reprint of the rules, or a revision of the rules? Where
can we get it? Is it possible to get errata/updates for people who
who rushed out to buy the first edition of the T4 rules and can't
afford yet another rules manual?

Brian McNeilly

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:00:24 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Character Generations and Social Levels

Marc Miller writes:
>The spending requirement for Soc is a drop in the bucket for those who are
>truly great. Both Saddam and Diana easily outspend the requirement of Cr250 x
>Soc per month (Diana was Princess of Wales, say Soc E = $7,000 per month at
>Cr1= $2) (Saddam is about the same). Both of these people are / were spending
>much more than $7,000/month or $85,000 /year.

I agree that a fixed spending requirement for the highest social levels (above
SL 10 I'd say) should either be much higher or (my preferred solution) very
much up to the Referee and the player, perhaps with a few rules of thumb in
the rule book. But I couldn't help noticing that you put Princess Diana's SL
at 14. This is a perfect example of a problem I've brought up several times
before without getting any response. (At least, I think it is a problem).
How can a relative of the constitutional monarch of a single country on a
balkanized planet be one social level above the ruler of an entire world?
(an Imperial marquis is SL 13, right?). How many social equals do Princess
Diana have on Earth? We have between one and two hundred countires on Earth,
IIRC. I'd guesstimate that close relatives of rulers of countries would run
to more than a thousand. Do you really mean that a planet, even a high-
population planet, could have more than a thousand peers of Imperial counts?
The Moot would get awfully crowded if they all attended, wouldn't it? And if
only a tiny fraction of SL 14s actually sat in the Moot (say, one in a
thousand) don't you feel that there would be a percieved difference in
importance between the 1 and the 999? And shouldn't an Imperial Marquis who
sat in the Moot be of a higher SL than a so-called SL 14 who didn't?

I don't see how you can possibly justify giving Princess Diana a higher SL
than 11 under the present system. Which I concede is completely inadequate,
but that's precisely why I think 17 social levels are too few to span the
huge gap between the Emperor and the lowest outcast in his Imperium.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #233
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, March 2 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 234



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Character generation and social classes
About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Pocket Empires question...
Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies
Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Re: T4.1?
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Re: Character Generations and Social Levels
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors
Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]
Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]
Subject: Re IG Info --- I told you so!
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures
Web Pages
Re: Traveller 'serv
Re: GURPS TNS
Re: T4.1?
Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!
Re: Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:20:56 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Character generation and social classes

Eris Reddoch writes:
>If you *really* want to get specific, then represent classes 1 through 11
>as lower and middle and lower-upper classes.  A SOC roll of 2 through 11
>maps to classes 2 through 11.  During a career a PC can drop to 1 or 0, but
>won't begin there.  A roll of 12 allows a 1d6 roll for the upper non-noble
>classes 12 through 16 and nobility (beginning at 17).  If the player rolls
>a 6 on the second roll, he rolls another 1d6 for his noble rank, 17 through
>22.

I'd suggest giving anyone who roll a 12 a fifty-fifty chance of improving
that to a 13; if he makes that, he get another fifty-fifty chance of
improving that to a 14, and so on until he either misses a roll or hits
whatever ceiling the Referee decides to impose ("I'm not having Norris'
nephew for a PC!")
  
>  12-13  Lower Upper 
>  14-15  Upper
>  16     Upper Upper
>  
>  Noble Classes
>   17     Baron/Baroness
>   18     Viscount/Viscountess
>   19     Earl
>   20     Marquis/Marquise
>   21     Count/Countess
>   22     Duke/Duchess
> 
>  Imperial Classes
>   23     Archduke/Archduchess
>   24     Prince/Princess
>   25     Emperor/Empress

I posted my suggested social scale just the other day, so I won't repost it
it right away, but I wound up with 33 classes (with the Imperial nobility
running from 24 to 33, of which several of the Imperial ones were made up
to make each of the official Imperial titles map back to the official SL if
you divided by 2 and rounded up.

>The title, Knight would be an honorary rank conferred on an non-noble of
>accomplishment and repute.  A non-noble raised to nobility would generally
>be for just his/her lifetime and would be called a Baronet. To be a
>Baron/Baroness the noble would have to hold an inherited title.

Here's an excerpt from my article about nobles ranks:

"...problems arose when dignitaries of different planets came into contact
with the interstellar society of the Imperium and, through it, with each
other. How did one decide the precedence of the Grand Director of Vilis,
the Speaker for All the Tribes of the Grundish Steppe on Sorel, a Commander
of a Thousand Sails of the Southern Archipelagic Confederation on Overnale,
and the Lord High Syndic of Thorshavn on Marastan? And of course things got
even more complicated when the same titles were used for positions of
vastly different importance. The Duke of Troura, however sovereign a ruler
of his few thousand square kilometers on Tirem, was certainly not the
social equal of Duke Lionel du Nord, Regent of the Rheltan Highlands on
Caledonia, even though Duke Lionel was a vassal of the King of Caledonia;
and neither of them were the equal of the Duke of Deneb [...]

The Imperium had solved this problem by creating the Imperial Office of Arms
(IOA). This was ostensibly an Imperial department for the registration of
heraldic coats of arms and equivalent devices, but in reality their most
important function was to evaluate local titles, offices, and positions and
translate them into equivalent Imperial social positions. On the
recommendation of the IOA the holder of a given title, office, or position
automatically recieved a knighthood in an appropiate Imperial order. This
just as automatically gave him or her a fitting position in Imperial
society.

There were a large number of Imperial orders of knighthood. Some of these,
like the Most Valorous Order of the Emperor's Guard (E.G.), the Most
Courtly Order of the Starship and Crown (S.C.), the Most Illustrious Order
of the Arrow (O.A.), and the various orders of the domains were used to
reward individuals for service to the Imperium; they were not normally used
just to grade local planetary dignitaries. For this purpose the most
commonly used were the Most Excellent Order of the Third Imperium (T.I.),
the Most Distinguished Order of the Golden Sun (G.S.), and the Most Exalted
Order of the Star of Sylea (S.S.) (The last should not to be confused with
the Most Noble Order of the Domain of Sylea (D.S.))."


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 08:47:32 -0600
From: Chris Olson <Chris_Olson@itd.sterling.com>
Subject: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

Hey, I've just been through my traveller rule books looking for the 'rules'
mentioned on this list for placing x-boat routes.  From what I cn figure, they
were in only one edition of the little-black-books, and not in my copy.  Can
any one e-mail me this rule segment, please?

Chris Olson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 08:20:46 -0700
From: "Christopher E. Webb" <cwebb@ctos.com>
Subject: Pocket Empires question...

I'm sure someone did a review/commentary on this T4 book.  Can someone
point me at it or give me a summary of it?  I'm using (heretical) TNE rules
primarily, but I finally broke down and got FFS2, and PE looks like it may
be useful, but I'm slightly reluctant to pay out $20+ without knowing (or
reasonably being sure) that there's going to be substantial useful material.

If there was a review of it posted to the TML, can someone please tell me
where the archives are -- I don't remember & haven't stumbled across them
yet on the Web.  E-mail me directly if you don't want to waste TML bandwidth.

Thanks,
Christopher Webb
cwebb@ctos.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:27:39 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]

>That's because your musical tastes don't include... The Ramones!
>
>RAMONESmania (1988) is *76:03* long, and it plays fine on my Sony 10-disc
>changer, Yamaha carousel, and Toshiba x4 & x24 CD-ROM drives (haven't tried
>it on the HP7100 yet).  Anyone care to guess how many tracks?

If its a Ramones disc that's 76 minutes long?  Probably 25-30 tracks. :^)

I have a large collection of CDs of various types and tastes, but I can't
think of any that I have that top about 63 or 64 minutes though.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:33:10 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

>>> Sufrain is also (IIRC) more properly Sufren? (will check)
>>
>>My apologies.  You're probably right.  I was running from memory, not from
the
>>books.  It didn't look right, but, just spelled it the way I was pronouncing
>>it in my head.
>
>It is "Suffren".

If my copy of Brilliant Lances is to be believed, it's Sufren.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:51:45 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

In a message dated 98-03-02 09:54:47 EST, you write:

<< Hey, I've just been through my traveller rule books looking for the 'rules'
 mentioned on this list for placing x-boat routes.  From what I cn figure,
they
 were in only one edition of the little-black-books, and not in my copy.  Can
 any one e-mail me this rule segment, please?
 
 Chris Olson
 
  >>

I would like to see them as well... since I don't clearly remember them even
being in the little black books.

Meanwhile, here's what I think they should be.

1. Identify all HiPop worlds in the sector with TL 9+.
2. Identify all Rich Worlds.
3. Trace routes of J4 or less connecting those worlds.

Each world should have no more than three routes going to it.
If connections aren't possible, trace through intervening worlds.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:13:42 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies

Marc Wrote;
>Here is atab delimited table showing the various combat related skills. In
>T4.1 (for example) Laser Rifle is a Rifle; some energy weapons are Heavy
>Weapons.
[snip]
>Heavy Wpns	Heavy WpnsRanged.Crewed.     Machineguns, launchers, and energy
>projectors.

>Gunnery	Ship's GunsSpace Combat.	Crewed.	Ship based weaponry.

So the skills have been collapsed from the ones I expected, i.e. turret
weapons, PA Weapons, etc, or Heavy Weapons (Grenade Launcher).

The only problem this represents for me is; is there a seperate skill for
repairing and/or maintaining these items?  Or can a machine gun armorer
also fix my FGMP?


>BATTLEFIELD SKILLS
>Category		Skill	User	Effect
>Enhancement		Battle Dress	Individual	User can wear and
>operate battlefield
>armor.

"Battlefield Armor" is (I would think) a tracked vehicle with a gun turret.
"Personal Powered Armor" might be better.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:16:50 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures

>Exactly how powerful they can be? What can you detect/identify from a
>starship in orbit? Life forms, energy sources, and to which level of detail?
There are numbers in FFS2 on sensor resolutions. From orbit, most military-
quality starship sensors are pretty good - at the "read the newspaper over
your shoulder" level or past it. They can pick up "life forms" and
"energy sources" throug the infrared radiation they give off. 

That's not to say the sensor can find (for example) a particular individual;
there's a lot of area to scan/process. You really need to know where to look,
and make a good sensor roll.

>Supposing I had to hide something on a planet, which kind of
>countermeasures should I apply? Should I put my secret installation below
>the surface? What about submarine sites? Or under ice? Would heavy
>vegetation help? What about scientifically enhanced defenses, like
>genetically manipulated plants?

TIA,

Below the water is probably the best; water is pretty opaque to these
sensors, and waste heat gets carried away by the water. Underground, the main
problem is hiding the exhaust vents (waste heat again...) but it would still
be very hard to find the target. Since this is all just light, thick enough
vegetation would work too (although active sensors would penetrate some
thickness of plants - active sensors are basically radar.) Again there's 
the waste heat problem - a big fusion plant will stand out unless you can dump
the heat into a really big river.

>genetically manipulated plants?

How about plants that store heat during the day and release it at night
so they look like a target on IR sensors?

There are also neutrino sensors, which can see a fusion plant through *any*
thickness of rock or ice - they're generally very short ranged, imprecise,
and expensive. There are rules for them on the FFS2 errata site.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:20:03 -0600
From: Chris Olson <Chris_Olson@itd.sterling.com>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

Thanx for the info.  I've heard several people mention them, and I was
interested.  Your comments make a lot of sense and I probably should have been
able to figure that out on my own (I blame lack of sleep :-)

Thanx again for a quick response, tho'.

CardSharks wrote:

> In a message dated 98-03-02 09:54:47 EST, you write:
>
> << Hey, I've just been through my traveller rule books looking for the 'rules'
>  mentioned on this list for placing x-boat routes.  From what I cn figure,
> they
>  were in only one edition of the little-black-books, and not in my copy.  Can
>  any one e-mail me this rule segment, please?
>
>  Chris Olson
>
>   >>
>
> I would like to see them as well... since I don't clearly remember them even
> being in the little black books.
>
> Meanwhile, here's what I think they should be.
>
> 1. Identify all HiPop worlds in the sector with TL 9+.
> 2. Identify all Rich Worlds.
> 3. Trace routes of J4 or less connecting those worlds.
>
> Each world should have no more than three routes going to it.
> If connections aren't possible, trace through intervening worlds.
>
> Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:37:36 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: T4.1?

At 08:26 AM 3/2/98 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, so I'm new to the list. Can someone tell me what this T4.1 is?
>Is this a reprint of the rules, or a revision of the rules? Where
>can we get it? Is it possible to get errata/updates for people who
>who rushed out to buy the first edition of the T4 rules and can't
>afford yet another rules manual?

T4.1 is the working name for the major revision/overhaul that Marc is doing
of T4.  He has been kind enough to post sections of the rules here for
commentary and critique, to try and avoid the problems we had with the
first T4 book.  

T4.1 isn't avalible yet, as it is still a work in progress.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:45:17 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

At 11:20 AM 3/2/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Thanx for the info.  I've heard several people mention them, and I was
>interested.  Your comments make a lot of sense and I probably should have
been
>able to figure that out on my own (I blame lack of sleep :-)

>> Meanwhile, here's what I think they should be.
>>
>> 1. Identify all HiPop worlds in the sector with TL 9+.
>> 2. Identify all Rich Worlds.
>> 3. Trace routes of J4 or less connecting those worlds.
>>
>> Each world should have no more than three routes going to it.
>> If connections aren't possible, trace through intervening worlds.

You know, this gives me a fun idea for a scenario..  When the railroads
were pushing west, towns would compete vigorously to become county seats,
since that guarnteed that the railroad would come to them (bring lots of
revenue).  Picture the competition in Deneb to become one of the
intervening worlds in a long "dry stretch" of space.  Lots of oppotunities
for bribery, trade, and sabotage.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 08:52:12 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Character Generations and Social Levels

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
> Marc Miller writes:
> >The spending requirement for Soc is a drop in the bucket for those who are
> >truly great. Both Saddam and Diana easily outspend(t) the requirement of Cr250 x
> >Soc per month 

[snip discussion re SL]

>       Hans Rancke
> University of Copenhagen
>      rancke@diku.dk
> ------------

My original line of thought when I posed the comparison between Diana
and Sadam was,  does the amount of spending equate to greatness in
everyones minds ???  IMPO, I don't think it does. I quess I was off
topic when I posed the question. Sorry !!
 SL in Traveller then IMO becomes a question of luck of the draw (die
rolls). Not everyone who attains a *title* is or will necessarily be
deserving of the title.
This would apply to any era of the game, be it CT, MT, TNE, T2300, T4 or
any other version or cross version used.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:31:38 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

SD Mooney wrote:

[snip previous discussion which has been answered]
>I seem to recall Marc allowing people to copy CT/MT material if they can't
> get hold of it on the basis that they will get it when they can. No-one has
> slammed people obtaining copies of the out of print material for their own
> use. The criticism has been directed at people copying/distibuting
> currently available material, specifically with regards to the effects of
> publishing current work electronically.
> 
> Dom
> 
I agree with all of the above. I have a lot of the old material (not
all) which I will share provided I do not set myself up for a law suit
in so doing. Thanks to many persons on line, access to *new* older
material is available out there. Thanks to Mr. Lindsay of Vancouver and
Sentry Box in Calgary, I now have purchased originals , Darrians, COACC,
Regency Sourcebook and MT Diaspora Sector. So persevere, and if it is
truly not available on the market, I'm sure a copy will be allowed.

On an aside topic. If anyone has Darrians or is knowledgable on the
subject, I need some help. Under character generation cascade skills on
page 29 it shows Talent: ....., but nowhere in the MO, AS or High Guard
tables nor in the preamble have I read where that comes available. Was
there a misprint or did I miss it. And any who have used the module, how
did you treat it. I wasn't aware before now that the Zho's territory
extended so far rimward. I really have to get data on the Far Frontiers,
Foreven and Vanguard Reaches Sectors. Can anyone give me some leads??? 
Also there is a disagreement with regard to additional ship benefits in
the MO tables page 28, and the preamble on page 27, Material Objects:
Starships, last line.

Thanks for your help

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:49:29 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Glow-in-the-dark colors

Glenn Grant wrote:
> 
> Leonard Erickson sed,
> 
> >In mail you write:
> >
> >> Can anyone tell me why glow-in-the-dark materials - the kind that absorb
> >> energy from bright light and then emit for several hours - are seemingly
> >> available only in a pale greenish-white color? Why not other colors?

I have seen it used in many colors, and it glowed very brightly to a
*black light* stimulant when other lights in the room were dimmed.
Otherwise it was not eveident unless pointed out by a knowlegeable
person. It was/is used by model railroaders to simulate night time
scenes on their layouts (worlds). To the best of my recollection, it was
first used and written about for the MR application by a chap in North
Vancouver. If you have a modeller close by, ask them.
As to what makes it work, those here have more knowledge than me. 

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 18:00:02 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:27:39 EST, SemoFetus wrote:

> >That's because your musical tastes don't include... The Ramones!
> >
> >RAMONESmania (1988) is *76:03* long, and it plays fine on my Sony 10-disc
> >changer, Yamaha carousel, and Toshiba x4 & x24 CD-ROM drives (haven't tried
> >it on the HP7100 yet).  Anyone care to guess how many tracks?
> 
> If its a Ramones disc that's 76 minutes long?  Probably 25-30 tracks. :^)

30 would be the correct guess (based on an average of 2:30 per song).  They
do have one other CD with *32* tracks on it, so that CD might be even
longer than 76:03.

Bam, bam, b-bam,
   b-bam, bam, b-bam... I wanna be sedated!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:02:30 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]

In a message dated 3/1/98 10:42:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, SemoFetus@aol.com
writes:

<<  When I was in Germany, I saw a number of CDs that tipped the scales at
 over 70 minutes, however, in the U.S. I don't think I've ever seen one that
 tops 63 or 64 minutes.  >>

All of my CD soundtracks (the 3 Star Wars movies, Raiders of the Lost Ark,
Conan the Barbarian and Star Trek 6)   are all over 65 min...the only one
produced outside the US might be the Conan soundtrack (but I don't know for
sure)

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:05:59 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Subject: Re IG Info --- I told you so!

Well i think G:T is marketing towards existing players and not new ones.  It's
a niche group at best, seeking to convert existing RPGers.  It will generate
very little new blood, i fear.  SJG just isn't widespread (or even apparent)
to new blood.  Of course, i've said the same of IG.  What we need is for
someone established and competent to get a Traveller license... i was hoping
on FASA instead of SJG... oh well.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:05:58 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

   Well... seeing how TSR has started putting up old supplements and
adventures on their web pages, would it be a problem from Marc or IG to do the
same?  Lol... maybe the "not the IG" web page? Could FASA and/or DGP do it w/
their old Traveller stuff?
   If GDW was around they well might.   Too bad they're not.  There's many a
day and many a reason i mourn GDW... 

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 07:12:14 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Web Pages

Hello all, I'm looking at putting up a web page, and naturally thought I'd
put some Traveller stuff on it. 

I was wondering if someone could tell me what sort of copyright/trademark
acknowledgement IG and Marc require. I emailed IG, but have had no response
so far.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 06:54:57 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller 'serv

At 07:54 AM 02/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey!  I'm frfom the Star Frntier listserv and saw your post.  Is the
>Traveller listserv any good?  I eally like traveller, but have not been
>able to find the listserv for it (er...rather, 2 years ago I found one,
>but was told it was defunct).
>
>me,
>delmar watkins

It depends on what you call 'good'. Subscribe a try it out.

To subscribe send 'subscribe traveller' in the body to: majordomo@mpgn.com
I think.

Let me know how you get on. There are a large number of traveller webs
sites, so a search of Yahoo should get you one with the info of this is wrong.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:43:58 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS TNS

Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com> wrote:

>Dom Mooney wrote;
>> GDWGames wrote;
><Snip>
>> Kenji, have you been playing with Loren's food and drink again?
>>
>> ><FNORD ON>
>> >Loren needs his dosage adjusted -- he's beginning to ramble, and he's
>>starting
>> >to fixate on lists of unconnected questions again. Focus! Focus!
>> ><FNORD OFF>
>>
>> Okay, I think I'm going to have to ask the question...
>>
>> FNORD?
>
>You're not cleared for that, sorry.

Let me guess... the information is on a "need to know basis"?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 18:36:09 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: T4.1?

On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 08:26:17 -0500, Brian McNeilly wrote:

> OK, so I'm new to the list. Can someone tell me what this T4.1 is?
> Is this a reprint of the rules, or a revision of the rules? Where
> can we get it? Is it possible to get errata/updates for people who
> who rushed out to buy the first edition of the T4 rules and can't
> afford yet another rules manual?

Errata for the main rule book can be found at IG's homepage...

http://www.imperiumgames.com/main.html

You won't find "updates" there, but you can ask Marc nicely and he will
send you working copies of what he has planned for T4.1.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 18:52:33 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!

On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:47:52 GMT, Phillip McGregor wrote:

> On Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:12:17 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >John R. Snead wrote:
> >[snip]
> >
> >> Begin Forwarded Message
> >> -------------------------------------------------
> >> The following statement has been issued from Imperium Games
> >> regarding outstanding freelance payments.
> >>
> >> Wednesday, February 18, 1998
> >>
> >> Dear Freelancers:
> >>
> >> I regret to inform you that due to the low performance of Traveller
> >> products in the marketplace, Imperium Games must undergo a reorganization
> >> to address the debts owed to its various vendors.
> 
> OK, lots of you were claiming I was overly pessimistic about IG's survival.
> 
> Certainly looks like it is increasingly unlikely, doesn't it?

Well, they said that they were "restructuring", not closing their doors.

[snip]

> Looks very much like I can (provisionally, of course ;-) say "I told you so."
> 
> I would suggest that the above communication suggests strongly that T4.1 will
> never be published *by IG* ... and that, increasingly, the near term future of
> Traveller will be with GURPSTrav.

You just love to stir up the pot, don't you Phil?  I still don't see the
reasoning behind repeated pessimistic comments when IG hasn't done anything
wrong /in the last few months/.  You *still* seem overly pessimistic about
IG's survival to me (or do you *want* IG to fail?).  Let it rest.  IG needs
optimistic support now if it is to survive.

G:T will be the future of Traveller only for those people running campaigns
prior to 132-1116.  Here's hoping that another company (BTRC?) will acquire
the rights to continue supporting the Rebellion, Virus, and/or Milieu
eras...



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 12:12:53 -0700
From: Eric Holmes <holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov>
Subject: Re: Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets

From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets  TML#227

SNIP

In combat terms we know that 10 SDB = 1 Attack factor, but cost more 
due to jump drives ... let us use a further factor of two for this.  We 
can either do the conversion based on CruRon Attack factors, or just 
use a standard conversion for any world:

CruRon basis
============
1 squadron = (P-2+M) x 10 SDB's


"Standard" conversion
=====================
1 squadron = 70 SDB's

So, going back to the example of Olny, it could trade in 1440 of its 
1500 SDB's to "buy" 16 more squadrons (90 SDB per Sq) - a total of 
80 extra AF (if CruRons) or 56 AF (if BatRons) ... which is around half 
the "combat strength" the SDB force represented.  This seems about 
right to me.

Now Olny has 21 squadrons, rather than 5, which is within spitting 
distance of the 25 Sq I wanted to give to a war-mongering pocket empire 
like Olny.  Excellent!


SNIP

I must remind Simon and Rob that the the conversion is for Defense Factors,
not Attack Factors.  This would reduce the above listed attack factors by
half.  
Forty (40) for CruRons and twenty-three (23) for BatRons.

Eric

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #234
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, March 2 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 235



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Web Pages
Reverse Engineering (was Re: Office 98, ...)
Re: Possible NPC (longish)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #231
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: Social levels
Making it up "as you go" (was Re: Web Publishing Adventures)
Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Re: Possible NPC (longish)
Re: Possible NPC (longish)
Re: Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Re: T4.1?
Re: Subject: Re IG Info --- I told you so!
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures
Re: Possible NPC (longish)
Hydro: Water and Ice

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 19:05:28 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Web Pages

On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 07:12:14 +1300, Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> Hello all, I'm looking at putting up a web page, and naturally thought I'd
> put some Traveller stuff on it. 
> 
> I was wondering if someone could tell me what sort of copyright/trademark
> acknowledgement IG and Marc require. I emailed IG, but have had no response
> so far.

Try: http://www.imperiumgames.com/links.html (at the bottom)





James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:05:41 -0600 ()
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Reverse Engineering (was Re: Office 98, ...)

J-Man wrote:

>I think you would use this formula :
>
>surface area = (squared(radius * 2))*3.1415926535897926
>
>For approximate volume = (cubed(radius * 2))*0.5236
>
>for volume of a segment of your spherical ship :
>
>segvol=(0.5336((square root of Height of segment)+3*square root of
>radius of base of segment)* height of segment)


and Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>Volume of a sphere = (4/3)*pi*r^3
>Surface Area       = 4*pi*r^2
>
>So for a "unit sphere (ie one with a radius of 1) the volume is 4.19.
>The area is 12.6. So the surface to volume ratio is 3:1. This is also
>the *minimum* possible surface to volume ratio in euclidean space.
>
>compare with a cube. Surface = 6 * L^2. Vol = L^3. So surface to volume
>is 6:1.


Hmm. Thanks for the responses. What I was looking actually wondering was
the reverse of this -- I would like to figure base spherical length
(diameter) and surface area from volume. So if I understand this, and I
reverse the formulas correctly, would this be:

radius = (cube root of (volume/pi/(4/3))

... and since radius is 1/2 diameter, multiply this by two to get hull
length for a spherical hull. Then multiply this by the Length Modifier (LM)
to get a rough idea of the hull's length by configuration.

Is this correct? :-)

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

"This reminds me of my first job, before crash dummies were popular. Man, I
spent a fortune on aspirin." -- the "pointy-haired one" from Dilbert

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:05:35 -0600 ()
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

>Hi,
>I was playing with Paul Owensby's excellent Beginnings program (can't wait
>for the completed version!), and came up with this interesting character. ...

<kiaaaiiii snip!>

>... At the Age of 62 You Have an Experience Which Changes Your Worldview


Jeezuz and the dancin' angels, this guy has been through a lot! Do all
"Beginnings" characters come out like this?

Ah well, back to my boring, pathetic little so-called life ...

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 12:23:16 -0700
From: Eric Holmes <holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #231

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re:Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets  TML#231
said:

SNIP
>CruRon basis
>============
>1 squadron = (P-2+M) x 10 SDB's
>
>"Standard" conversion
>=====================
>1 squadron = 70 SDB's
[example snipped]

So which version do we use?  I'm going to incorporate this into Metator II
(which already has PE and IS extensions).

SNIP

Rob:  See my comments re: TML#227 from Simon.  Remember that the 5FW SDB
chart is used for the basis of Defense Factors, not Attack Factors.  Simon's
values would be halved.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:13:10 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

At 05:35 PM 3/1/98 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>> On 03/01/98 at 07:56 PM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:
>> >I discussed something like this with Andy Lilly a while ago - making the
>> >101 books available over the web with a credit card order. However we
>> >decided against it in the end due to the risk of piracy  of the material

>> Yes, it's a concern of mine too. I don't think anyone has come up with the
>> answer to the copy and redistribute problem, and that is going to delay and
>> if we don't find an answer, probably, kill commercial electronic
>> publication. Of course, it's the same problem electronic distribution of
>> software has been facing. The ultimate answer might have to be trusting to
>> the honesty of your customers...says Eris the cynic.
>
...
>The advantages of electronic publishing are hard to beat: instant
>gratification for your customers (or as instant as their modem lets them
>be ;-), close to zero production costs beyond the original book layout (if
>you're web based, your costs amount to printing the book to Adobe Acrobat
>instead of a printer, and spending an hour or so setting up a web page).

I also am a great fan of electronic publications.  The printing costs are
quite extreme for conventional publications, and distribution puts some
products out of reach.  There does have to be a way to get a printed copy
easily, but if electronic publishing takes off, I am certain we will see
people who are willing to turn your electronic file into a physical book
quickly and cheaply.  The economies of scale for a single book vs. a large
run change dramatically if the intervention of a human can be eliminated.
After all, publishing on demand makes a great deal of sense if the original
has been properly proofread, and makes it much easier to avoid IG-style
snafus.  Further, there are a lot of people who could make a go of it as an
author if a POD system existed where "direct to printer" versions of a text
could be downloaded and printed.

There are issues, such as an instructor duplicating textbooks for a class
that are problematic, but this has been an issue for a while, and Kinkos,
at least, has learned how to stop it.  Similar techniques will work for
licensing POD work - it is not hard to stuff an authentication key into the
electronic file that will tell Kinkos what kind of license the person has.

I note that I bought a piece of software as a present electronically, and
would not have done so if said software was not electronically distributed.
 It was just easier to do, and the instant gratification made it easier to
acquire and give.  I also order from Amazon, and from Land's End for much
the same reason - I buy when I want to, and when I know the product meets
my needs.

As far as piracy goes, on some level, you do need to trust your customers.
I do believe that you should not deliver product until the customer pays,
as this stops a lot of shareware problems, but I have seen about as many
photocopies as electronic copies of things that should not be duplicated.
You cannot prevent illegal distribution anyway, and might make a fair piece
of change from being able to sell a product for a lower price and via an
easier method.

Corps is a neat system, and I will likely buy the critter because it looks
neat enough to have some benefits.  I would be less likely to do so if it
were a paper book - I just do not need it for the extra cash it would cost.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:28:45 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Social levels

At 02:10 PM 3/2/98 +0100, you wrote:
>doug snyder writes:
>
>>How about Soc Level ^ 2 * 100 = Cr  per month for expenses.
>
>Reality check: Middle Class (SL 7) would spend 7^2 * 100 = Cr4900 per
>month. Average food costs Cr200/month, average accomodations costs
>Cr200/month. So a middle class person would spend 4% on food, 4% on
>accomodations and 92% on other things.
>
>How about SL+2 * 50 as the minimum to keep up standards, with people
>usually spending about SL*10% more if they have the money (With SLs 
>above 10 completely outside this system, since people can spend an
>enormous amount of money if they have it).

Minor problem from the analysis I did - SS9 is one standard deviation above
the average, which leads to an income on the order of half again as much,
not 20% above.  Similarly, you get about a third the income when you are at
two SDs below the average, so SS 5, which leads to a 45% drop under the
proposed system.

BTW, this look much more reasonable if you expand the scale in the manner
which you alluded to in another post - if the range of social standings
runs from more than 2 to 10, linear additive factors would be a better
approximation.

It looks like a log scale is almost certainly needed, and we merely need to
fix the endpoints and increment properly.  (Such an analysis in the real
world would be publication fodder for an economist.  :-)  )

All numbers from memory and an analysis I did based on US earnings, as
reported in the last census.  Check out www.census.gov, IIRC, for the
original data.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:47:54 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Making it up "as you go" (was Re: Web Publishing Adventures)

>(Some of the best gaming sessions I was ever in were led by a
>referee that made everything up on the spot.  Amazing guy, absolutely no
>preparation. And it wasn't even Silly Era type adventuring, well, only
>once.).

Interesting, How many people make up adventures as they go at least once in
a while?

I pretty much only GM, and I have entered upon evenings of Traveller with
no preparation whatsoever and played amazing adventures, and likewise fell
flat on my face.  Other nights have seen me develop intricate characters
and settings, convoluted plot lines, and suprise endings, only to be
accepted as 'yeah, that was all right.'  At other times such prep work
resulted in truly neat role playing opportunities.

The amazing happens when I blunder through an evening, taking twists and
turns and ending up in a completely unexpected place, and one of my players
says "That must have taken you a long time to prepare." When I'd made the
whole thing up from top to bottom.

My own conclusion; Develop the background - governments, companies,
characters, settings, villians, patrons - and let the plot happen in these
venues.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:10:48 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Publishing stuff via the Internet

> Being a _very_ satisfied customer of BTRC's electronic formats, I will say
> I'm quite willing to consider buying electronic forms of books and
> supplements.

Ditto.

I like having my Traveller books in paper, but when I go the loacl gaming 
club I could have everything with me on my portable if electronic versions 
were available.  I can see several occasions when I would find this very 
useful.  And just think, in another 20 years when someone tries to get hold 
of an out-of-print T5 book, we'll be able to smile and say "you can buy that 
from www.MarcMillerMuseum/archive/e-book.html - still only $10".



Simon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:10:52 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

Boy o boy o boy.  I can get my fur-lined anorak out of storage ...

LBB 3 (worlds and Adventures) page 2

World
Pair  J1  J2  J3  J4
A-A    1   2   4   5
A-B    1   3   4   5
A-C    1   4   6
A-D    1   5
A-E    2
B-B    1   3   4   6
B-C    2   4   6
B-D    3   6
B-E    4
C-C    3   6
C-D    4
C-E    4
D-D    4
D-E    5
E-E    6

you roll 1D6 for each world pair, if the die roll is equal to or grater 
than the number, then a space lane exists.

This generation system is included in Galactic, where you can see the 
over-abundanve of j-routes.  Galactic also has an alternate generation 
system than produces routes that look much more like the maps produced 
by GDW.


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:50:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

In mail you write:

> On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>> > Your homeworld has a Class C starport.
>> > Your homeworld's size is Small.
>> > Your homeworld has a Vacuum atmosphere.
>> > Your homeworld is a Wet World
>> > Your homeworld has a Population in the hundred-millions.
>> > Your homeworld has a Law Level of 2.
>> > Your homeworld has a Tech Level of C.
>> 
>> Vacuum *and* Wet? I think there's a bug...
>
> Wouldn't iscovered planets be covered under wet?

Nope. That's what the Ic (Ice-Capped) code is for.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:51:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

In mail you write:

>>> Your homeworld has a Class C starport.
>>> Your homeworld's size is Small.
>>> Your homeworld has a Vacuum atmosphere.
>>> Your homeworld is a Wet World
>>> Your homeworld has a Population in the hundred-millions.
>>> Your homeworld has a Law Level of 2.
>>> Your homeworld has a Tech Level of C.
>>
>>Vacuum *and* Wet? I think there's a bug...
>
> Don't they know think there's ice on the moon ? would kind of suggest
> Vacume and Wet is OK ...

The ice deposits (if any) are *very* small. They are confined to areas
in polar craters that *never* receive sunlight. That's because ice will
*sublime* (go straight from solid to vapor) in a vaccum except at
*very* low temps. 

The ice deposits are likely a *lot* less than even 1% of the surface
area, making the Moon have a Hydro of 0.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:10:46 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets

I intend to use:

1 squadron = (P-2+M) x 10 SDB's

As P-2+M is the base DF for a squadon, you already know the number in 
the calculations.  

Any alternate value ought to include TL effects (as SDB's get a dice 
mod based on TL), but I see no reason for that level of complication.


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:08:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

In mail you write:

> Hey, I've just been through my traveller rule books looking for the
> 'rules' mentioned on this list for placing x-boat routes.  From what
> I cn figure, they were in only one edition of the little-black-books,
> and not in my copy.  Can any one e-mail me this rule segment, please?

World              Jump Distance
Pair     Jump-1   Jump-2   Jump-3   Jump-4
A-A        1        2        4        5
A-B        1        3        4        5
A-C        1        4        6        -
A-D        1        5        -        -
A-E        2        -        -        -      Roll the cross-index
B-B        1        3        4        6      or greater on a d6
B-C        2        4        6        -      in order for a jump
B-D        3        6        -        -      route to be present
B-E        4        -        -        -
C-C        3        6        -        -
C-D        4        -        -        -
C-E        4        -        -        -
D-D        4        -        -        -
D-E        5        -        -        -
E-E        6        -        -        -

What most of us have decided is that this *doesn't* show x-boat routes.
It makes *way* too many.

But it might work for determining if there is "scheduled service"
between the worlds in question.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:55:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures

In mail you write:

>>Exactly how powerful they can be? What can you detect/identify from a
>>starship in orbit? Life forms, energy sources, and to which level of detail?
> There are numbers in FFS2 on sensor resolutions. From orbit, most military-
> quality starship sensors are pretty good - at the "read the newspaper over
> your shoulder" level or past it. They can pick up "life forms" and
> "energy sources" throug the infrared radiation they give off. 

Excuse me? How are they managing to get that level of detail thru an
atmosphere? I'm referring to the "read the paper over your shoulder"
bit. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:23:02 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, CardSharks wrote:

> In a message dated 98-03-02 09:54:47 EST, you write:
> 
> << Hey, I've just been through my traveller rule books looking for the 'rules'
>  mentioned on this list for placing x-boat routes.  From what I cn figure,
> they
>  were in only one edition of the little-black-books, and not in my copy.  Can
>  any one e-mail me this rule segment, please?
>  
>  Chris Olson
>  
>   >>
> 
> I would like to see them as well... since I don't clearly remember them even
> being in the little black books.
> 
> Meanwhile, here's what I think they should be.
> 
> 1. Identify all HiPop worlds in the sector with TL 9+.
> 2. Identify all Rich Worlds.
> 3. Trace routes of J4 or less connecting those worlds.
> 
> Each world should have no more than three routes going to it.
> If connections aren't possible, trace through intervening worlds.
> 
> Marc Miller
> 

If anything the rules would have been in Book 6:Scouts, since that's
where the X-boat service was described. I can look when I
get home...OTOH, Marc just gave a pretty good rule, and since "What he
thinks it should be" tends to be what is...I'd go with that.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:31:39 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: T4.1?

>OK, so I'm new to the list. Can someone tell me what this T4.1 is?
>Is this a reprint of the rules, or a revision of the rules? Where
>can we get it? Is it possible to get errata/updates for people who
>who rushed out to buy the first edition of the T4 rules and can't
>afford yet another rules manual?

T4.1 is the "code" name for Marc Miller's Traveller, revised.  It, as yet,
has not been published, and in fact is a work in progress.

Occassionally, Marc drops us a tidbit; a table or chart, a chunk of text,
etc. that he asks us to review and/or approve, generating probably more
discussion than he intended and, hopefully, a few useful remarks and errata
checks.

You can get the "official" errata at;
http://imperiumgames.com/errata.html

Your best guess is as good as mine of the last time it was touched.

Joe Heck's site has some more errata (some the same) at;
http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/errata/

the T4.0 errata is also maintained at the Not The Imperium Games website,
which I couldn't find the address for after searching for a half hour or so
(hey! get on the webring guys!).

I saw more errata around, but mostly it was either specific to some other
work besides the T4 book, or was specifically "errata from the IG website".

Pete



                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 15:26:02 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re IG Info --- I told you so!

At 03:08 PM 3/2/98 -0500, Gary wrote:
>Well i think G:T is marketing towards existing players and not new ones.
It's
>a niche group at best, seeking to convert existing RPGers.  It will generate
>very little new blood, i fear.  SJG just isn't widespread (or even apparent)
>to new blood.  Of course, i've said the same of IG.  What we need is for
>someone established and competent to get a Traveller license... i was hoping
>on FASA instead of SJG... oh well.
>

GURPS seems to get prominent shelf space in the four game shops (as opposed
to hobby shops) within an easy drive of my home - in the Wash DC area...
GURPS's wide (wild?) variety of source books, I'm told by retailers here,
is one of their big draws.  I do Wild West occasionally - though I don't
play GURPS, I do have their Wild West book.  I wonder how their Traveller
book will do if it's presented properly - that is, as a complete source
book, not simply as an alternate history to somebody else's game...  Of
course, I suspect mention will be made of the "Original" Traveller, to draw
the grognards in, but if you consider how well developed the Traveller
universe is, a very attractive stand-alone book could be done, if the
author knows his stuff (which if Mr. Wiseman is involved, will certainly be
the case...)


Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 16:01:49 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

>Meanwhile, here's what I think they should be.
>
>1. Identify all HiPop worlds in the sector with TL 9+.
>2. Identify all Rich Worlds.
>3. Trace routes of J4 or less connecting those worlds.
>
>Each world should have no more than three routes going to it.
>If connections aren't possible, trace through intervening worlds.
>
>Marc Miller

Hello Marc and list,
  Just out of curiosity, how does an X boat actually work?  I have always
thought that an X boat is a information dissembler first.  Also, I always
figured that it was based upon the fastest the jump drive could go at the
imperial tech levels.  Anything that requires a jump 2 or less to get to
should be regulated to scout packets or regular mail packets.  Anything
above that could be regulated by local fast boats.

  Overall, if I were the Emperor - trying to shave off as much time as is
possible would be my goal for those x-boats...

        Hal

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:08:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures

 
> > quality starship sensors are pretty good - at the "read the newspaper over
> > your shoulder" level or past it. They can pick up "life forms" and
> > "energy sources" throug the infrared radiation they give off. 
> 
> Excuse me? How are they managing to get that level of detail thru an
> atmosphere? I'm referring to the "read the paper over your shoulder"
> bit. 

Well, I think the assumption for spacecraft sensors is damn near
diffraction limited (if not actually at diffraction limit).

Seeing through the atmosphere *down* is much better than up. Bruce,
what is adaptive optics seeing at these days? Some fraction of an
arc second. I could see it being maybe an order of magnitude better
looking down--so maybe headlines, anyway :-)

A ballpark I just did says that 14 point print would require seeing
on the order of 0.004 seconds of arc from 200km up. 

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 14:41:34 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> >>Vacuum *and* Wet? I think there's a bug...

Maybe not a bug...a feature. ;-> 

> > Don't they know think there's ice on the moon ? would kind of suggest
> > Vacume and Wet is OK ...
 
> The ice deposits (if any) are *very* small. They are confined to areas
> in polar craters that *never* receive sunlight. That's because ice will
> *sublime* (go straight from solid to vapor) in a vaccum except at
> *very* low temps.

Well, take a moon like Europa, a water world with little (if any)
atmosphere. 

> The ice deposits are likely a *lot* less than even 1% of the surface
> area, making the Moon have a Hydro of 0.
 
Right, the Moon would have a hydro of 0. Of course, Hydro 0 doesn't mean
NO water, just less than 1%..or the way I'd define it, less than 1/2 of
1%, anyway.

A planet, or moon, in the outer system could very likely be a nice big
iceball composed *mainly*, but not entirely, of water ice. So, what do
would we call its Hydro? 

IMTU, I include the ice as part of the world's Hydro rating. YMMV.

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 14:52:08 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Hydro: Water and Ice

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > Wouldn't iscovered planets be covered under wet?
 
> Nope. That's what the Ic (Ice-Capped) code is for.

Ah, yep! AND that's what the Ic is used for. ;->

What I do is rate the Hydro based on the coverage by H20 (in any form),
and add the Ic code to indicate that the water in the Hydro rating
refers to ice rather than liquid.  For example, in my AKUS MOBY game the
PC's are about to enter the Beck system. The main world (a moon) has a
significant Hydro rating, but it's all ice. So, they can check the Hydro
rating, see that water will be available for refueling, then notice the
Ic and deduce that they will have to *melt* the water before the can
take it aboard for processing.

Eris

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #235
**********************************

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Traveller-digest        Monday, March 2 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 236



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures
Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]
Re: Making it up "as you go" (was Re: Web Publishing Adventures)
Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures
Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures
CD ROM release and possible MAC problem
Re: Publishing via the Internet
Re: World Generation Modifications
TNE Trading Clarification
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
antigravity research (off-topic)
Re: CD ROM release and possible MAC problem
Re: Traveller 'serv
Re: Possible NPC (longish)
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: Subject: Re IG Info --- I told you so!
Xboats and routes
Re: T4.1?
Re : Next Software Project (Trading)
Subject: Re IG Info --- I told you so!
Re: Traveller 'serv
Re: GURPS TNS

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:20:26 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures

Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote;
>In mail you write:
>
>>>Exactly how powerful they can be? What can you detect/identify from a
>>>starship in orbit? Life forms, energy sources, and to which level of detail?
>> There are numbers in FFS2 on sensor resolutions. From orbit, most military-
>> quality starship sensors are pretty good - at the "read the newspaper over
>> your shoulder" level or past it. They can pick up "life forms" and
>> "energy sources" throug the infrared radiation they give off.
>
>Excuse me? How are they managing to get that level of detail thru an
>atmosphere? I'm referring to the "read the paper over your shoulder"
>bit.

(Putting on his Shadow-proof asbestos suit)

Sometimes, Leonard, you need to allow a handwave is just a handwave and may
not be "possible" based on what we know today, that said;

Take your top-secret recon satellite (or TL10+ equivalent), peer down at
our non-allies (or allies if you are Mossad) standing on the grounds of
their test facility with the blueprints to a new technology of rocket laid
on the table infront of them, "snick" take a picture.

Now, the distortion of 100,000+ feet of atmosphere will distort the image
so that you will need to feed it through the chaotic-correction-fractal
generator fill in software, but with a little computer time and, maybe, a
couple of extra frames of the same image, you build a picture of the plans
laid out so that you can duplicate them exactly down to the scribbled notes
of the Chief Engineer saying "what the heck is HEPlaR?".

C'mon, A little imagination here?  Urban Legend (and some not perfectly
believable sources like Tom Clancy) say that the NSA's best toys can read a
newpaper *headline* from orbit, why can't we take it to it's logical next
step, within limits of physics and maybe a bit futher.  This is science
*fiction* after all.

I do appreciate your 'touch base with reality' comments on many subjects
(especially my own gadgetry), but I think you need to loosen you're collar
a little sometimes.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 22:22:46 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]

At 11:27 1998-03-02 EST, Semo wrote:
>I have a large collection of CDs of various types and tastes, but I can't
>think of any that I have that top about 63 or 64 minutes though.

Try "Some girls wander by mistake" by The Sisters of Mercy. That record is
79 minutes and 20 seconds long!

The generally accepted maximum length of a CD is 74 minutes (at least
that's what every recordable CD says). I do own a few records 75 or more
minutes long, though. Most of these have a rather high number of tracks
(between 15 and 20).


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Linkping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:34:58 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Making it up "as you go" (was Re: Web Publishing Adventures)

<snip>
>Interesting, How many people make up adventures as they go at least once in
>a while?
<snip>
>My own conclusion; Develop the background - governments, companies,
>characters, settings, villians, patrons - and let the plot happen in these
>venues.
>                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu

This accords with my own experience as a GM of ancient experience. However
I think it's more important for a GM to find their strength and use that as
the base of their story-telling, rather than to dogmatically follow a
suggestion on what GMing 'ought' to be.

My strengths are sudden inspiration and characterising NPCs. I fall down
often with following plots through, or avoiding plot inconsistencies. To
cover these weaknesses I do tend to plan at least a rough outline of the
story from A to B and use my shorter-term creative abilities to produce the
actual routes from A to B.

If you're not good at going with the flow, you need to plan your stories
somewhat more thoroughly. This is not a bad thing: the central duty of the
GM is to coordinate the telling of a good story, and you can't do that if
you're floundering. Certainly you should practice ex tempore skills to
cover this weakness the same way I try to plan things better, but I do it
sitting firmly on my seat of comfortable, powerful GMing rather than
risking disappointing my players through failing experiments.

Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:30:12 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures

Shadow wrote
>[bruce wrote]
>>From orbit, most military-
>> quality starship sensors are pretty good - at the "read the newspaper over
>> your shoulder" level or past it.

>Excuse me? How are they managing to get that level of detail thru an
>atmosphere? I'm referring to the "read the paper over your shoulder"
>bit. 

Turbulence looking up is much worse than turbulence looking down (the
"shower curtain" effect.) Depending on the details of the atmospheric turbulence
spectrum I believe one can generally do quite well, limited only by diffraction.
To the extent that you can't, adaptive optics and/or speckle postprocessing 
will work just as well looking down as up.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:34:00 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures

>Seeing through the atmosphere *down* is much better than up. Bruce,
>what is adaptive optics seeing at these days? Some fraction of an
>arc second. I could see it being maybe an order of magnitude better
>looking down--so maybe headlines, anyway :-)

The Keck AO system is supposed to reach a resolution of 0.02 arcseconds.
Looking down should pretty much be diffraction-limited. Possibly I overspokes
slighlty about reading newspapers - but a medium sized military sensor should
have resolution at the half-centimeter level from orbit, or better.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:01:47 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: CD ROM release and possible MAC problem

	Okay, currently I'm waiting on Galactic 2.4 (and I guess some material from
Rob before I start sending out copies).
	Rob's recieved an early version of the disk to test on the MAC and ran into
some problems. He had to use PC exchange to access the disk. Offhand I'm not
sure what the problem is and Rob is doing further tests as he has time. So if
you want the CD ROM for use on a MAC, you might want to hold off unless you
have PC Exchange (or access to a PC). Sorry. It's being worked on.
	I have someone who's going to test it on some unix machines, but they're not
expecting any problems as long as the Rock Ridge(?) extensions are available.
	There is the possibility their might be problems with older CD drives as
these are CD-R disks. I have one person who is testing it out on an older
drive. And btw I am recording them at 2x speed.
	I haven't found any new search/index programs I can include on the CD. I'd
like to include AltaVista Personal, but there'd be a licensing problem I
expect (as in they might want money).
	Someone else is working on one that might be useable, but not on this
release. Maybe by the next one.


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:01:45 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Publishing via the Internet

<RANT ON>
	Geez,
	I think we need something new added to the FAQ on this one, right behind 0.1c
rocks, traveller economics and trading, and and......

	For reprints of the old Traveller material. It's being done, right now it's a
slow tedious process (traveller players being picky, I presume you want no
errata). If you want it faster join the CD project and work on it.

	Traveller adventures on disk. There's a couple on the CD (including some
rough drafts). Not many yet, maybe by next year. Format is text, but you get
what you give.

	Forms, there's some old forms on the disk, I just need to remember to try and
reformat them to RTF. If someone wants to volunteer to do PDF versions, I'd be
happy to see them.

	So far I've had permission from the Keith brothers, Judges Guild (thanks to
Jim), and GW to redo their stuff on the CD, so as soon as I can get those
digitized (which depends on time/volunteers) they'll be on the CD. Probably
next priority on the list will be FASA.

	I've got other projects in the works, which depending on my copious free time
will eventually get done.

	Basically it comes down to if you guys what it, it can probably be done, but
just talking about it won't get you anywhere. It's out up or shut-up time
(figuratively speaking).

	So what do you want? And what are you willing to volunteer to get it done?

	I've GOT TIRED over the last 9 months of seeing problems with IG, lack of
Traveller support, so on etc.....

	So over this time I've started the TWG list to help better playtest the
material in an environment with less bandwidth devoted to other subjects.
	I've got a new HIWG list up and running with new features. HIWG is being
revamped with new focus. I've been in discussion with Andy Lilly among others
on supporting Traveller fandom.
	I've had the not-IG list set-up and have many notions on expanding it (given
time and material).
	IG suspended Citizens, I'm reviving it slowly under HIWG. Details are taking
a while to work out.
	The traveller-cd project, my favorite item (even if it usually end's up
getting the least of my time), who's ultimate goal is to try and make
everything from at least old traveller available (you might say the initial
release is something of a test, as much as it could use more work and material
I feel).
	I've co-opted the T-tech list and the TNE-list as HIWG guilds to support
those areas (you're next :) ).
	I'm trying to revive JTAS in some form or another. Because I think Traveller
needs adventure support. I even have some new artists lined up.

	What are you doing to support your favorite game.........
</RANT OFF>

	I know Traveller fans are a terrific group, and can come up with excellent
material and as Andy and Martin put it a little whack over the head sometimes
might get you guys motivated in a useful direction........


Bryan

P.S. ALL of you can also thank Marc Miller for his support in these projects.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 19:55:43 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

>>It is "Suffren".
>
>If my copy of Brilliant Lances is to be believed, it's Sufren.
>
>Semo

Oops. Mea Culpa. Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora agrees with you. Suspect I
was thinking of a certain 2300 ship class...

Apologies

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 22:25:30 +0000
From: TGL <marc.davison@virgin.net>
Subject: TNE Trading Clarification

While coding my Trade &Commerce utility today, I came across something
that I would like clarified.
On page 236 of TNE in the Trade and Commerce Flowcharts, it mentions
that if the market world is a RED zone then there is a -8 DM, and no low
or middle passengers.  Does this guidline hold true for steerage
passengers?

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 16:18:11 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

hal@buffnet.net wrote:

> >Meanwhile, here's what I think they should be.
> >
> >1. Identify all HiPop worlds in the sector with TL 9+.
> >2. Identify all Rich Worlds.
> >3. Trace routes of J4 or less connecting those worlds.
> >
> >Each world should have no more than three routes going to it.
> >If connections aren't possible, trace through intervening worlds.
> >
> >Marc Miller
>
> Hello Marc and list,
>   Just out of curiosity, how does an X boat actually work?  I have always
> thought that an X boat is a information dissembler first.  Also, I always
> figured that it was based upon the fastest the jump drive could go at the
> imperial tech levels.  Anything that requires a jump 2 or less to get to
> should be regulated to scout packets or regular mail packets.  Anything
> above that could be regulated by local fast boats.
>

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing.  Is it like mail routes?  If so, do
they actually ship packages or do they gather up digital data, pack it into
computers and transmit once they get insystem? Do the ships just go back and
forth between two systems (transfering packages and mail through a router) or
does the X boat travel the whole route?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:57:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: antigravity research (off-topic)

Somebody here quoted an article on antigravity research being
done in Finland (this was some time ago). Anyway, for those who
are interested, the current issue of Wired (March 98) includes
an interview with this researcher as well as others in the U.S.
who are working on the same sort of stuff. I'm not a physics-
type, so I dunno what to make of it, but it'll be among the
great discoveries of the century if it turns out to be real.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:20:16 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: CD ROM release and possible MAC problem

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Kagehira wrote:

> 	Okay, currently I'm waiting on Galactic 2.4 (and I guess some material from
> Rob before I start sending out copies).
> 	Rob's recieved an early version of the disk to test on the MAC and ran into
> some problems. He had to use PC exchange to access the disk. Offhand I'm not
> sure what the problem is and Rob is doing further tests as he has time. So if
> you want the CD ROM for use on a MAC, you might want to hold off unless you
> have PC Exchange (or access to a PC). Sorry. It's being worked on.

Well, since any mac which can access a CD-Rom should have PC Exchange on
it already (since it's a standard piece of System software since 7.0) that
should be no problem. If you're burning a straight ISO9660 disk, you
should have Foreign File Access (also system software) installed as well.
I think, however, that it supports only the lowest of the ISO9660 format
levels (8+3). 

'Twould be really nice if you could burn a hybrid cd with both PC and Mac
directories on it...I know that most mac CD mastering software can do
this...I don't know about PeeCee stuff. 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:47:53 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller 'serv

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
To: Delmar Watkins <dwatk00@sac.uky.edu>; traveller@mpgn.com
<traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: Traveller 'serv


>At 07:54 AM 02/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Hey!  I'm frfom the Star Frntier listserv and saw your post.  Is the
>>Traveller listserv any good?  I eally like traveller, but have not been
>>able to find the listserv for it (er...rather, 2 years ago I found one,
>>but was told it was defunct).
>>
>>me,
>>delmar watkins
>
Hey Kenji! A new one! Breakout the Laser powered, mind altering drug drug!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:22:06 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Joseph R. Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)


>>Hi,
>>I was playing with Paul Owensby's excellent Beginnings program (can't wait
>>for the completed version!), and came up with this interesting character.
...
>
><kiaaaiiii snip!>
>
>>... At the Age of 62 You Have an Experience Which Changes Your Worldview
>
>
>Jeezuz and the dancin' angels, this guy has been through a lot! Do all
>"Beginnings" characters come out like this?
>
>Ah well, back to my boring, pathetic little so-called life ...
>
>Joseph R. Dietrich
>yikes@evansville.net


Actually, most do have a rather detailed life history like this. My favorite
is from another character I rolled up at the same time as this one...

At the Age of 45 You Question Your Sexual Lifestyle, Role, or Orientation
At the Age of 46 You Question Your Sexual Lifestyle, Role, or Orientation
At the Age of 47 You Are Publicly Accused with a Crime

I think this is probably one of the potentially "fun" programs for Trav yet!
It's fun just to see how the character comes out and what sort of "history"
it fits to him/her.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:32:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, GDW GAMES wrote:

> Eris Reddochsaith,  in regards to Publishing stuff via the Internet
> 
> >Yes, it's a concern of mine too. I don't think anyone has come up with the
> >answer to the copy and redistribute problem, and that is going to delay and
> >if we don't find an answer, probably, kill commercial electronic
> >publication. 
> 
> Absolutely. When someone copies a book, that's a book that the publisher
> didn't get paid for. Lost sales mean the profit margin is slimmer, and result
> in less money for other products. Take this to too big an extreme, and there
> is a technical term for this that I learned at a Dogbert Business Seminar(tm):
> "Death Spiral.

If the idea is to avoid distributing digitized copies of publications in a
portable format like PDF, then I have a suggestion: 

How about the amazon.com approach, in conjunction with a fast 2-sided
printer and any local binding equipment (a stapler or just 3-hole punched
paper will do in a pinch) you have access to?  That is: 

1.  	Somebody browses your online catalog and decides to order a
	publication.

2.	They fill out a form and submit it to you.  The form contains
	their order information and telephone number.  They keep a copy of
	the form, of course (in cache, in file, by printer, etc.).

3.	In a day or so (you're *not* amazon.com after all, so no 5 minute
	callbacks), you call them or they call you (need an 800 line, I
	think that SJG already has one, or at least the infrastructure
	to do one).  If the customer indicates payment by mail, you just
	sit and wait for it to arrive (skip to step 5).

4.	Over the telephone the customer gives you a credit card number,
	and you confirm payment.

5.	Once payment is in your hand, then print, bind (stack on an 8.5 x
	11" piece of card stock), wrap, and ship the product.  The
	required equipment should require no more than 100 square feet and
	a modicum of capital if not already available.  This part won't
	work for amazon.com, but it could work for a business that does
	low volume.

Of course, it looks wonderful in email, but making it work in an existing
organization that is used to doing things differently is a lot harder. The
figures are probably hard to balance.  Nevertheless, it would be a great
way to distribute OOP material that's already set up in electronic form,
as well as "marginal profit" support materials for current lines. For
gaming lines with die-hard fans, you can probably find someone to digitize
the really old stuff for free.  I think that the idea must be practical at
some level.

(I should calculate the cost for one minimum-wage person to make, wrap,
and ship printouts for 40 hours a week, and figure out how many printouts
that would be, then go through overhead, plot a volume:price profit curve,
etc.)

Comments?


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 07:17:26 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re IG Info --- I told you so!

At 01:05 PM 02/03/98 EST, Gary wrote:
>Well i think G:T is marketing towards existing players and not new ones.
It's
>a niche group at best, seeking to convert existing RPGers.  It will generate
>very little new blood, i fear.  SJG just isn't widespread (or even apparent)
>to new blood.  Of course, i've said the same of IG.  What we need is for
>someone established and competent to get a Traveller license... i was hoping
>on FASA instead of SJG... oh well.

I wouldn't call SJG not establish or incompetent, just not huge or
experienced at marketing to the non-gamer.




- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:52:32 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Xboats and routes

Hello Folks,
  Here is an idea that I would like to try out and see if anyone has the
time and/or inclination to bother with designing...

  Using HG,MT,TNE, and FF&S2, design the smallest legal X-boat ship (read
that as cheapest) that can carry 2 tons of high priority physical mail,
carry large amounts of data, and transmit data via secured communications
information carried in digital form - using Jump 3 drives, Jump 4 drives,
jump 5 drives, and Jump 6 drives - each based upon the top technology
usable at the TL when the jump drive is being made?  By this, if Jump 3
drives are TL 12, the the TL of the x-boat is 12.  If the top level for
Jump 6 is TL 15, then the ship may be made with TL 15 limits.

  The purpose of this "think tank" exercise is to show the likely
criterion for the design of a mass produced specialty ship most likely
used for X-boat routes.  It is assumed that these X-boat routes are
maintained by the Imperial funds, and run strictly as an Imperial
Governmental function (which incidentally permits commercial traffic when
space permits).

  Concept: if each x-boat center contains two tenders, and 8 cheap
X-boats, it concievably could carry daily traffic.  One per day, with one
ship being maintained as a replacement should mechanical difficulties
arise.  Each "space station" x-boat center contains facilities for
docking, data storage, crew facilities, and so forth.  Each X-boat
facility permits authorized ships to pick up data/mail/physical objects as
needed.  It is assumed that each facility is in an area of space that is
off limits to non-authorized ships, and as an Imperial agency, exempt from
mandated emergency rescue laws of ships in distress.

  The whole Idea here, is to calculate the maximum number of X-boat routes
required to get the maximum coverage needed.

  Also, as a question to you all for debate purposes... why can't the
imperium maintain deep space X-boat stations?  Why not make X-boat
stations precisely 4 parsecs apart regardless of whether there is a star
there or not?  Supply ships/tankers can drop of hydrogen fuel and other
supplies needed.  PE suggests that this can be done, so why not use this
approach for X-boat centers?

  Anyone want to calculate the "new" required times for information to
reach the outer limits of the imperium?  <grin>

  Just a few thoughts to share with you guys

   Hal

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:35:49 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1?

"Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:

>the T4.0 errata is also maintained at the Not The Imperium Games website,
>which I couldn't find the address for after searching for a half hour or so
>(hey! get on the webring guys!).

Try http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html or use the Other sites
link on my page.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:41:27 -0000
From: "Del Jones" <dojones@whitestar.u-net.com>
Subject: Re : Next Software Project (Trading)

If anyone is interested, I did a trading spreadsheet for excel 95/97
for windows. It eliminates the majority of the rolls in the MT trading
system, using my own version of cargo lot size (Major = d6*10, Minor
=d6*5, and Incidental = d6 tonnes)

I have asked for the full size version, with the full worlds data from Jo Grant's
site, to be included on the Traveller CD Rom thingy. However, if people are
interested, I will e-mail the lightweight version (with only world data for the 
domain of deneb) to you if you send me an e-mail requesting it.
Size of file is approx 170K zipped, 650K unzipped. Further details
available.

Cheers.

Del

Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
dojones@whitestar.u-net.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 19:25:35 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Subject: Re IG Info --- I told you so!

Bill wrote:

>GURPS seems to get prominent shelf space in the four game shops (as opposed
>to hobby shops) within an easy drive of my home - in the Wash DC area...
>GURPS's wide (wild?) variety of source books, I'm told by retailers here,

     In Los Angeles, i've found GURPS in a total of 3 places in maybe a 100
mile diameter.  Same with IG.  1 of these has closed its doors (if they
relocated, they didn't leave a note on the door).  TSR, WEG, FASA... i can
find all of these at a Walden Books or B Dalton and comic shops (add
Palladium...ugh... to the comic shops).  GDW too, once upon a time.  The two
closest FLGS to me have not had GURPS or IG.  Most of my players have never
heard of it.  
     I was looking through the new Star Wars stuff ("2nd Edition, Revised and
Expanded.")  That's some pretty sharp stuff...  looks nice... full color art
...  I look at the Babylon Project (also available at my local stores but not
IG and not GURPS)... the same.  Just imagine what Alternity is going to look
like, if it's going to look anything like the new AD&D hardbacks.  I'd
recommend some full color art (not 70s Foss!) and quite thorough proofing and
such for T4.1 if it's supposed to draw a decent share of the market. 
     GURPS is quite well written, but not flashy.  I don't think it has to be
since it doesn't market to newbies.  I generally like the content quality of
GURPS but it's always seemed kind of bland to me.  I expect it will be up to
SJGs usual quality standards, even though the underlying concept of G:T still
leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 13:23:57 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller 'serv

At 05:47 PM 02/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>To: Delmar Watkins <dwatk00@sac.uky.edu>; traveller@mpgn.com
><traveller@mpgn.com>
>Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 1:36 PM
>Subject: Re: Traveller 'serv
>
>
>>At 07:54 AM 02/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>>Hey!  I'm frfom the Star Frntier listserv and saw your post.  Is the
>>>Traveller listserv any good?  I eally like traveller, but have not been
>>>able to find the listserv for it (er...rather, 2 years ago I found one,
>>>but was told it was defunct).
>>>
>>>me,
>>>delmar watkins
>>
>Hey Kenji! A new one! Breakout the Laser powered, mind altering drug drug!
>
That's my fault, the vic... umm new recruit asked me about the list and I
accidentaly send the reply here as well.

Poor sod. He hasn't a chance now the lists's been warned.

- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

   "If in doubt - wipe it out."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:05:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: GURPS TNS

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, SD Mooney wrote:

> Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com> wrote:
> 
> >> Okay, I think I'm going to have to ask the question...
> >>
> >> FNORD?
> >
> >You're not cleared for that, sorry.
> 
> Let me guess... the information is on a "need to know basis"?

Hah!  *I* will tell you!  They cannot stop me!

FNORD:  Manufacturer of high quality autoduelling vehicles, very popular
in the Republic of Texas and with AADA members everywhere.  This term is
ubiquitous in SJG literature and probably has several other context
dependent meanings to the Inner Circle as well.  You would do well to mark
all uses of the term, you never know when the information will be useful.

Loren *has* been hanging around SJG now, hasn't he?  I wonder how much he
has *seen*...


<no name>
ohmigod!  it's in the header! cancel send! too la--

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #236
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, March 3 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 237



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Possible NPC (longish)
Re: Unsubscribe
re: Making it up "as you go"
Re:Publishing via the Internet
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!
Re: GURPS TNS
Re: Publishing via the Internet
Re: Making it up "as you go" (was Re: Web Publishing Adventures)
Re: Making it up "as you go" (was Re: Web Publishing Adventures)
Re: Possible NPC (longish)
From SJG: Return of the TNS
Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]
Thanks Mike
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: Possible NPC --Comments
Re: CD ROM release and possible MAC problem
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: Xboats and routes
Re: Office 98, Virus, and associated ramblings (was Re: Next Software Project)
Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]
Re: Possible NPC (longish)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:08:20 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)


>In mail you write:
>
>> Your homeworld has a Class C starport.
>> Your homeworld's size is Small.
>> Your homeworld has a Vacuum atmosphere.
>> Your homeworld is a Wet World
>> Your homeworld has a Population in the hundred-millions.
>> Your homeworld has a Law Level of 2.
>> Your homeworld has a Tech Level of C.
>
>Vacuum *and* Wet? I think there's a bug...
>
Leonard,

I didn't catch this when I sent it to the list. I do suppose Paul will have
to make a change. I was just amazed at the over-all scope of this character
as an NPC, money, power, titles, an MD, a diplomat, trader. This guy's been
through it all. I'm planning on working him/her in as a major patron in my
campaign.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 16:53:45 -0800
From: Robert_Fain@notes.ymp.gov
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe

I am tiring to unsubscribe.  I am going on vacation next week and I would
like to drop off the list, but I am having difficulties.  Can anyone
assist.


Thanks,

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:31:31 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Making it up "as you go"

"Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:


>Interesting, How many people make up adventures as they go at least once in
>a while?

Guilty as charged.

>I pretty much only GM, and I have entered upon evenings of Traveller with
>no preparation whatsoever and played amazing adventures, and likewise fell
>flat on my face.  Other nights have seen me develop intricate characters
>and settings, convoluted plot lines, and suprise endings, only to be
>accepted as 'yeah, that was all right.'  At other times such prep work
>resulted in truly neat role playing opportunities.
>
>The amazing happens when I blunder through an evening, taking twists and
>turns and ending up in a completely unexpected place, and one of my players
>says "That must have taken you a long time to prepare." When I'd made the
>whole thing up from top to bottom.
>
>My own conclusion; Develop the background - governments, companies,
>characters, settings, villians, patrons - and let the plot happen in these
>venues.

With the background in place, the players start generating their own plots
through their motivations. This is when stuff like 76 Patrons, 101
Cargoes/Plots/Rendezvous/Travellers/Lifeforms are at their most useful. My
last campaign had some big themes (a low level corp war between LSP and
Interstellarms, the brewing of the FFW and Twilight's Peak) but these were
really the backdrop against which the players interacted and played their
petty (but important to them) games. The one time I really prepared a
scenario (Shadows) they bypassed it.

(If this interests you, check out the writeups on
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ . Those of you who have been around a
while may recognise some of them.)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue,  3 Mar 98 01:01:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Re:Publishing via the Internet

On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 07:44:17 Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> Wrote...
> Having them on disk is useful, too because it makes them easy to edit,
> for specific campaigns. Therefore I'd be against .pdf format unless
> there were other formats available - it's great for some things, but
> it's a pain for gaming products that a large percentage of the market
> would want to fiddle with.
    Speaking as someone seriously thinking/researching this.  I would think
you'd put a .pdf out there for free to browse and charge for the text version
since it IS then alterable. ;)

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:29:00 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

Clark Crawford wrote:

> How about the amazon.com approach, in conjunction with a fast 2-sided
> printer and any local binding equipment (a stapler or just 3-hole punched
> paper will do in a pinch) you have access to?  That is:

[snip]

> Of course, it looks wonderful in email, but making it work in an existing
> organization that is used to doing things differently is a lot harder. The
> figures are probably hard to balance.  Nevertheless, it would be a great
> way to distribute OOP material that's already set up in electronic form,
> as well as "marginal profit" support materials for current lines. For
> gaming lines with die-hard fans, you can probably find someone to digitize
> the really old stuff for free.  I think that the idea must be practical at
> some level.
>
> (I should calculate the cost for one minimum-wage person to make, wrap,
> and ship printouts for 40 hours a week, and figure out how many printouts
> that would be, then go through overhead, plot a volume:price profit curve,
> etc.)
>
> Comments?

I posted a similar, though less detailed, idea a week ago that only got one response
(title: CT Reprint Possibility).  The last auction posted on TML was getting bids of
between US$5-15 for Books 0-5 (with an average of $12 or so).  How many would buy at
$5?  Or $3 (Plus shipping, of course)?  I should think several more.  I simply
suggested that whoever has the copyrights (GDW or Marc) go down to the local
photocopy shop, run off 15 or so copies of each and have them bound (a quick and
easy drop 'em off, come back in two hours operation) - and offer them in bundles,
i.e., you can buy all 6 books for US$30 (plus shipping) - throw in another US$5 and
maybe Marc will break out some more of those maps up in storage.  Then wait for the
checks to come in.  Then send them.  Filling out shipping forms would be the only
real labor involved.  If interest is high enough, run off 30 or 50 sets instead of
15.

As many others have said, I'll take photocopies.  Happily.  The sooner the better.

Hell, send the books to me, Marc or GDW, and I'll do the work for US$1 - for as many
orders as would come about between now and August.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:31:28 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!

Phillip McGregor wrote:

[snip]

> >> Of course, individuals may retain the rights to the material they created,
> >> however, 25% is the best we can do in this regard.
>
> Looks very much like I can (provisionally, of course ;-) say "I told you so."

But be very careful to not violate the Traveller trademark which FFE has.
Just a word to the wise.


Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:35:44 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS TNS

Clark Crawford wrote:

> Hah!  *I* will tell you!  They cannot stop me!
>
> FNORD:

I think it is actually in some Robert Anton Wilson Illuminati stuff, but I may
be wrong.  It certainly is the ubiquitous phrase for SJG fans.  I can't recall
if FNORD predates CarWars or not.  I certainly do remember being first exposed
to the term during Gurps playtesting waaaay back when.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 17:21:38 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Publishing via the Internet

Kagehira wrote:
>  
 
>         So what do you want? And what are you willing to volunteer to get it done?
> 
 
> Bryan
> 
> P.S. ALL of you can also thank Marc Miller for his support in these projects.
>

Bryan, I can help, let me know how. A quick note to my e-mail with what
you want, or need. I'll respond in kind, if I can, and maybe I can lend
you a helping hand. The price is right. zero.zilch.nil.etc.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 14:30:01 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Making it up "as you go" (was Re: Web Publishing Adventures)

At 02:47 PM 02/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>(Some of the best gaming sessions I was ever in were led by a
>>referee that made everything up on the spot.  Amazing guy, absolutely no
>>preparation. And it wasn't even Silly Era type adventuring, well, only
>>once.).
>
>Interesting, How many people make up adventures as they go at least once in
>a while?

In general, given how bad I am at writing plots, especially for rpg's where
the characters are that much less predicable I 'wing it' more often than I
really prepare. This isn't quite as true for Trav, as it doesn't seem to
grab my players as much as fantasy or 'softer' sci-fi (they Space Master
for some ungodly reason, dammit), so I need more prep.

>I pretty much only GM, and I have entered upon evenings of Traveller with
>no preparation whatsoever and played amazing adventures, and likewise fell
>flat on my face.  Other nights have seen me develop intricate characters
>and settings, convoluted plot lines, and suprise endings, only to be
>accepted as 'yeah, that was all right.'  At other times such prep work
>resulted in truly neat role playing opportunities.

Pretty much the same here. 

>The amazing happens when I blunder through an evening, taking twists and
>turns and ending up in a completely unexpected place, and one of my players
>says "That must have taken you a long time to prepare." When I'd made the
>whole thing up from top to bottom.
>
>My own conclusion; Develop the background - governments, companies,
>characters, settings, villians, patrons - and let the plot happen in these
>venues.

That's been my philosophy ever since I noticed that my having written a
plot produced far too much temptation to 'railroad' my players everytime
the moved away from the script.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:21:37 -0500
From: "Rob Conley" <estar@toolcity.net>
Subject: Re: Making it up "as you go" (was Re: Web Publishing Adventures)

- ---
>>Interesting, How many people make up adventures as they go at least once
in
>>a while?

I was preparing to run the opening of the Traveller Adventure (using David
Summer's rules for GURPS Traveller) for my group when the player who
supposed to play the Vargr canceled out because of car trouble.

Quickly thinking I set the beginning of the campaign to two weeks before
001-1105 (the opening of the campaign)) on L'oeul d'Dieu. I winged pretty
much the whole adventure off a three line description of L'oeul in the
Traveller Adventure. The summary can be read at
http://www.toolcity.net/~estar/adventure.html

Rob Conley

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:23:48 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich) sez,

>>I was playing with Paul Owensby's excellent Beginnings program (can't wait
>>for the completed version!), and came up with this interesting character. ...
>
><kiaaaiiii snip!>
>
>>... At the Age of 62 You Have an Experience Which Changes Your Worldview
>
>
>Jeezuz and the dancin' angels, this guy has been through a lot! Do all
>"Beginnings" characters come out like this?

This is a result from my "Life Events" character background generation
system, which Paul implemented as part of his Beginnings program.

The idea with "Life Events" is that you're supposed to use it to jog your
imagination. You don't just use every result as-is. "At the Age of 62 You
Have an Experience Which Changes Your Worldview" - well, that's quite
plausible, but pretty vague. What experience? How did your worldview
change? You have to flesh it out.

If a Life Event doesn't make sense, you can just throw it out, or interpret
it as something that happened to someone close to the PC -- the PC's
parents, or spouse, or kids, or whatever.

I don't have Paul's program (I'm a Mac person), so this is the first output
I've seen from it. It looks like it could be very useful, but of course the
results need a lot of tweaking.

I can't say I like the repetitious "Your homeworld is..."/"You experience
a..." format. Seems highly redundant and unnecessary, IMO. Otherwise good,
though.

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:35:17 -0500
From: Daniel Poulin <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: From SJG: Return of the TNS

I thought the following might be of interest.  I usually hesitate before
posting the messages I get from the Daily Illuminator (I just don't want to
post something everyone must have received before) but it appears that this
one hasn't made it yet.  For those who have seen this, ignore it.

Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca
                        ______________________________________

SJ Games News: Return of the Traveller News Service

    Traveller fans will remember that one of the best features of the Journal
   of the Travellers' Aid Society was the Traveller News Service. Written
   in the form of a newswire, it reported the ongoing events of the official
   Traveller universe.

   Well, it's back.

   Loren Wiseman has hit the ground running, and the first GURPS Traveller
   material will be posted for playtest soon. And he's also picked up TNS
   where it left off in 1987, when GDW ended the "classic" Traveller continuity
   and moved into the Rebellion Era of MegaTraveller.

   Since GURPS Traveller is set in the official alternate history where
   the Imperium didn't fall, we're restarting TNS. As it did for almost
   20 years, it will tell the ongoing story of the universe of Strephon's
   Imperium.

   But now it's on the web. Loren Wiseman will be updating it regularly,
   and you can check out current events any time.

   It sent a chill down my spine when I read Loren's first new TNS dispatch
   (which you can find under "Previous Trasmissions" at the TNS site).

   I hope you enjoy this revival of one of gaming's classics as much as
   I do.
   -- Steve Jackson


Related Links:

  1. http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Traveller/
  2. http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Traveller/news.html
  3. http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Traveller/
  4. http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Traveller/
  5. http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Traveller/news.html
  6. http://www.io.com/~sj/

The Daily Illuminator is also posted on the SJ Games website, at
http://www.sjgames.com/.  To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
majordomo@pyramid.sjgames.com with the message "unsubscribe illuminator".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 02:44:44 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]

On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 22:22:46 +0100, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:

> At 11:27 1998-03-02 EST, Semo wrote:
> >I have a large collection of CDs of various types and tastes, but I can't
> >think of any that I have that top about 63 or 64 minutes though.
> 
> Try "Some girls wander by mistake" by The Sisters of Mercy. That record is
> 79 minutes and 20 seconds long!

By "record", I assume you are referring to "vinyl"?

> The generally accepted maximum length of a CD is 74 minutes (at least
> that's what every recordable CD says). I do own a few records 75 or more
> minutes long, though. Most of these have a rather high number of tracks
> (between 15 and 20).

There are also a few CR-Rs out there that claim 78 minutes (or 680 MB).  I
do not believe that today's CD-R/CD-RW writers can handle them, however.

Oh, more RAMONESmania trivia.  That 76:03 CD contains 668 MB of data.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:49:05 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Thanks Mike

You should have seen the rant I was going to post, but when I read Mike's
response, it made all my points without using four-letter words. 

And yes, GDW did play D&D for a short time off of a photocopied set of rules.
The short time lasted until we could find and buy the books. Seven or eight
sets, as I recall. No saint like a reformed sinner...

<< What would it take to get a licence for web publishing? Does the
application go to Far Frointer Enterprises? or to IG (considering their
current unknown status, probably not, but...) and what does such a licence
cost and entail? >>

Marc can answer that.

<<As far as a web re-print of Shadows (by the way Rob the graphics are great,
however...) this involves GDW the original author (I don't have the book any
more so I can't look it up), and any number of other tangles. I'd think a
totally new adventure might be a better choice. Anyone out there got
something appropriate? >>

I think Marc wrote shadows...maybe I'm misremembering. 

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 22:02:17 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

"Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com> writes:
>As far as a web re-print of Shadows (by the way Rob the graphics are
>great,
>however...) this involves GDW the original author (I don't have the book
>any
>more so I can't look it up), and any number of other tangles. I'd think a
>totally new adventure might be a better choice. Anyone out there got
>something appropriate?

Well, when I posted that material I _had_ the permission of the copyright
holder, and I complied with all the conditions (I included the copyright
notice, and I'm charging nothing).

I've actually got legal permission to copy out-of-print Traveller material
from all the major publishers except FASA (I had permission, but when FASA
sold the rights to Seeker they revoked it). 

I've been assuming that Marc is satisfied with this agreement, and hasn't
changed it. At least, he's never mentioned anything to me. I've sent him
copies of everything I've done, including full-size colour printouts of
the Shadows deckplans (although I didn't mount them on cardboard, to save
weight and postage).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:09:52 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Possible NPC --Comments

- -----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Grant <neo@total.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)


>>>I was playing with Paul Owensby's excellent Beginnings program (can't wait
>>>for the completed version!), and came up with this interesting character....
>>
>><kiaaaiiii snip!>
>>
>>>... At the Age of 62 You Have an Experience Which Changes Your Worldview
>>
>>
>>Jeezuz and the dancin' angels, this guy has been through a lot! Do all
>>"Beginnings" characters come out like this?
>
>This is a result from my "Life Events" character background generation
>system, which Paul implemented as part of his Beginnings program.
>
>The idea with "Life Events" is that you're supposed to use it to jog your
>imagination. You don't just use every result as-is. "At the Age of 62 You
>Have an Experience Which Changes Your Worldview" - well, that's quite
>plausible, but pretty vague. What experience? How did your worldview
>change? You have to flesh it out.
>
>If a Life Event doesn't make sense, you can just throw it out, or interpret
>it as something that happened to someone close to the PC -- the PC's
>parents, or spouse, or kids, or whatever.
>
>I don't have Paul's program (I'm a Mac person), so this is the first output
>I've seen from it. It looks like it could be very useful, but of course the
>results need a lot of tweaking.
>
>I can't say I like the repetitious "Your homeworld is..."/"You experience
>a..." format. Seems highly redundant and unnecessary, IMO. Otherwise good,
>though.
>
> + GMG +
>
Glenn,

I sent the "raw" output from Paul's program to the list, again, mostly
because I was so impressed with the character, a Count with an M.D., etc.
etc. I fully intend to flesh out the Life Events in the final product for my
campaign. Actually the out put, as is can be very amusing when read through
as it is produced by the program, and does present a very neat, taylorable
history for the character.

In this case I continued to "work" the character long after I normally would
have for a normal PC, the rolls were there and I couldn't resist. Truth to
tell I'm surprised at how well his attributes held up concidering his "age".
This is atypical after a fair number of runs.

Paul has said that the program, as is, is the back works for a windows
program, so I imagine that the final version will have a different printout.
I haven't sent email to him directly yet, since I'm still playing with it,
but I would suggest something like the shareware GURPS character generator
I've seen that allows (I think) editing of the final character sheet as well
as embedding of a .gif or .bmp(?) picture of the character, chosen from the
generic line drawings from the GURPS mainbook, or will accept a user
supplied file within the same size parameters. While this isn't, strictly
speaking, necessary, it's a nice feature. I hope he will allow some type of
similar editing to the Life Events section of the final Character sheet(s).

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 22:23:59 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: CD ROM release and possible MAC problem

Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com> writes:
>	Rob's recieved an early version of the disk to test on the MAC and ran into
>some problems. He had to use PC exchange to access the disk. Offhand I'm not
>sure what the problem is and Rob is doing further tests as he has time. So if
>you want the CD ROM for use on a MAC, you might want to hold off unless you
>have PC Exchange (or access to a PC). Sorry. It's being worked on.

Actually, I tested it on a PC. Even PC Exchange wouldn't mount it.

Bryan, have you fixed the file extension bugs?  If not, then some mention
in a read-me file is definately in order.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:18:49 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures


>Well, when I posted that material I _had_ the permission of the copyright
>holder, and I complied with all the conditions (I included the copyright
>notice, and I'm charging nothing).
>
>I've actually got legal permission to copy out-of-print Traveller material
>from all the major publishers except FASA (I had permission, but when FASA
>sold the rights to Seeker they revoked it).
>
In which case I stand, humbled, one foot slowly trailing back and forth in
the dirt and say, " I'm sorry, I didn't know" ina a very small voice.

Seriously, this is good news in that it clears up the problems I forsaw,
with contacting the copyright holder, etc. Sorry to hear about the FASA
stuff, they had some good works in there.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:30:14 -0500
From: "Robert Kondrk" <dss2@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

Hiya.

>Also, as a question to you all for debate purposes... why can't the
>imperium maintain deep space X-boat stations?

IMHO, I would think that the reason why is the same one that drives all
commerce in the real world - cost. I would assume that a deep space
installation would have a substancially higher overhead than one within a
planetary system since it would be far more expensive to send personnel and
supplies to it. In the case of a deep space installation, any supply ships
would have to be jump-capable, and would have to travel interstellar
distances. If a facility is within a planetary system, many of the supplies
(including fuel) could be transported by interplanetary, non-jump capable
shuttles and tenders at a signifigantly lower cost. The lower overhead could
allow for lower x-boat "postage", and/or higher operating profits.

Just putting my two cents in,

Bob Kondrk

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:56:34 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Office 98, Virus, and associated ramblings (was Re: Next Software Project)

>What's NPR?


Oops, forgot about you non-Americanos!

NPR are the initials of National Public Radio, a publically-supported
network here in the US. Their news broadcasts are fairly well repsected, and
range from daily programs to special issue weekly broadcasts such as "Sounds
Like Science."

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:11:23 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]

>>I have a large collection of CDs of various types and tastes, but I can't
>>think of any that I have that top about 63 or 64 minutes though.
>
>Try "Some girls wander by mistake" by The Sisters of Mercy. That record is
>79 minutes and 20 seconds long!

Okay, I guess I do in fact have at least one CD that's well over the 63/64
minute mark.  :^)

"With the fire from the fireworks up above me,
With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside..."

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:04:19 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

>Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)
>>>Hi,
>>>I was playing with Paul Owensby's excellent Beginnings program (can't
wait
>>>for the completed version!), and came up with this interesting character.
>>
>>>... At the Age of 62 You Have an Experience Which Changes Your Worldview
>>
>>Jeezuz and the dancin' angels, this guy has been through a lot! Do all
>>"Beginnings" characters come out like this?
>>
>>Ah well, back to my boring, pathetic little so-called life ...
>>
>>Joseph R. Dietrich
>>yikes@evansville.net
>
>
>Actually, most do have a rather detailed life history like this. My
favorite
>is from another character I rolled up at the same time as this one...
>
>At the Age of 45 You Question Your Sexual Lifestyle, Role, or Orientation
>At the Age of 46 You Question Your Sexual Lifestyle, Role, or Orientation
>At the Age of 47 You Are Publicly Accused with a Crime
>
>I think this is probably one of the potentially "fun" programs for Trav
yet!
>It's fun just to see how the character comes out and what sort of "history"
>it fits to him/her.
>
>Mike Peters
>Letterworks@CITNET.com


I LIKE IT! If you need beta testers count me in as a volunteer...
Thom

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #237
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, March 3 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 238



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: News & Gratuitous Violence
Re: World Generation Modifications
Re: Possible NPC (longish)
Re: Thanks Mike
Re: Character generation and social classes
Off the map
Re:  Making it up "as you go"
Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!
Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: Mass Detectors
Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures
Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!
GURPS: Traveller (was Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!)
Hydrographics (was  Re: Possible NPC (longish) )
Re: CD ROM release and possible MAC problem
Re: Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets
Re IG Info --- I told you so!
Re: Xboats and routes
Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]
RE: unsubscribing (was Re: GURPS: Traveller (was Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!))
TAS Encyclopedia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 16:33:42 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: News & Gratuitous Violence

At 12:43 am 3/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Also, remember, much of the press coverage of the war was
manipulated to
>>the strategic and tactical ends of the Allied commanders.
>>
>>obTrav: How much control will Imperial forces have over press
coverage of
>>their battlefields? How often will 'news' sources in the very 19th
century

	Interesting tidbit I came across, browsing through the Uniform Code
of Military Justice today... specifically the section on who is
subject to it. Did you know that technically journalists travelling
with military units are subject to military law?

>>Imperialist 3I be mouthpieces for the powers that be? Look at the role of
>>newspapers in many events in the late 19th-early 20th Century. Take the
>>Spanish-American war...as much of the impetus for the war was stirred up
>>by Hearst's newspapers as by any politician
>
>  As much as they need, as far as interstellar goes. Isn't that the
>definition of normal 3I jurisdiction? It doesn't matter how far to
>the appropriate politcial decision making level if you make sure the
>muckrakers never get through your cordon. Security, right?

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:21:12 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: World Generation Modifications

>>>It is "Suffren".
>>
>>If my copy of Brilliant Lances is to be believed, it's Sufren.
>>
>>Semo
>
>Oops. Mea Culpa. Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora agrees with you. Suspect I
>was thinking of a certain 2300 ship class...
>
>Apologies

No problem.  Just an extra f, y'know?  In the grand scheme of things, not too
big a deal.

I think I probably said one two many f's today when I was preparing my
Traveller adventure and the phone wouldn't stop ringing, so, we're even!  :^)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:02:53 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

>The idea with "Life Events" is that you're supposed to use it to jog your
>imagination. You don't just use every result as-is. "At the Age of 62 You
>Have an Experience Which Changes Your Worldview" - well, that's quite
>plausible, but pretty vague. What experience? How did your worldview
>change? You have to flesh it out.

I kinda figured that. :-) I just thought it was pretty humorous that he had
his thingy replaced when he was a wee lad 'o 13, got fired a lot, and was on
the scene of two terroist attacks and a major riot. Talk about someone you
don't want to be around. :-)

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:28:11 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Thanks Mike

In a message dated 98-03-02 22:01:42 EST, you write:

<< <<As far as a web re-print of Shadows (by the way Rob the graphics are
great,
 however...) this involves GDW the original author (I don't have the book any
 more so I can't look it up), and any number of other tangles. I'd think a
 totally new adventure might be a better choice. Anyone out there got
 something appropriate? >> >>

The author of Shadows is Marc Miller.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 98 23:54:04 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Character generation and social classes

On 03/02/98 at 03:20 PM,  Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:

>I'd suggest giving anyone who roll a 12 a fifty-fifty chance of improving
>that to a 13; if he makes that, he get another fifty-fifty chance of
>improving that to a 14, and so on until he either misses a roll or hits
>whatever ceiling the Referee decides to impose ("I'm not having Norris'
>nephew for a PC!")

Ha! Good one! ;->

I wouldn't object to doing the 50/50 thing above 12.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 23:07:46
From: 2drapers <2drapers@infowest.com>
Subject: Off the map

Was there ever any official word on what was going on to rimward of the
Solomani Sphere in the CT era?  AM6 does not mention anything.  I always
thought it would be an interesting area, with two aggressive and xenophobic
races (us and the Aslan) possibly expanding in that direction and a chance
to explore off the edge of the map.

Were the Canopus, Aldebaran, Neworld, Banners, Hanstone, and Hadji sectors
ever generated and are they posted somewhere?

Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 01:17:33 +0000
From: dss2@pop.erols.com
Subject: Re:  Making it up "as you go"

>Interesting, How many people make up adventures as they go at least 
once in
>a while?

I end up doing it often, but not all the time. I run a "matrix" 
campaign. In other words, I create a basic framework for the campaign 
and plot(s) as a whole, and specific scenarios for the situations 
that I feel that my players will most likely be involved in during a 
night's gameplay. When the players do something unexpected, I 
wing it, using the basic framework as a guide. When the players 
do something REALLY unexpected, I wing it to a greater degree 
and modify the framework accordingly. Most of the time I do alright 
with "making it up as I go", allthough there have been a few times 
when I've gotten "writer's block" and had to end a game night early.

Talk to ya later,

Bob Kondrk
- ------------------------------------------
All is concentr'd in a life intense, 
Where not a beam, nor air, nor leaf is lost, 
But hath a part of being. 

- -- Lord Byron
- ------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:05:51 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:01:48 -0500, you wrote:

>Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 18:52:33 GMT
>From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
>Subject: Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!

>You just love to stir up the pot, don't you Phil?  I still don't see the
>reasoning behind repeated pessimistic comments when IG hasn't done anything
>wrong /in the last few months/.  You *still* seem overly pessimistic about
>IG's survival to me (or do you *want* IG to fail?).  Let it rest.  IG needs
>optimistic support now if it is to survive.
>
>G:T will be the future of Traveller only for those people running campaigns
>prior to 132-1116.  Here's hoping that another company (BTRC?) will acquire
>the rights to continue supporting the Rebellion, Virus, and/or Milieu
>eras...

Someone has kindly crossposted a message evidently from the HIWG list that
*seems* to make it blindingly obvious that IG *has* folded ... no new products,
*ever*. Loss of license, which reverts to Marc (great news that! now we may see
someone who *has a clue* get T4.1 ... where can I sign up for my advance copy?).

I don't think my doomsaying had anything at all to do with it, IG incompetence
can be said to be 100% to blame, I suspect.

I don't know how "official" the above is, but it is *evidently* "common
knowledge" in the right circles.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:09:56 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!

On Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:14:46 -0500, you wrote:

>Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:31:28 -0500
>From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!
>
>Phillip McGregor wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> >> Of course, individuals may retain the rights to the material they created,
>> >> however, 25% is the best we can do in this regard.
<NOT mine>

>> Looks very much like I can (provisionally, of course ;-) say "I told you so."
<Mine>

>
>But be very careful to not violate the Traveller trademark which FFE has.
>Just a word to the wise.

Sorry, I claim the second paragraph, but not the former ... don't blame me!

Phil


- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 02:51:36 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca> asks:


>On an aside topic. If anyone has Darrians or is knowledgable on the
>subject, I need some help. Under character generation cascade skills on
>page 29 it shows Talent: ....., but nowhere in the MO, AS or High Guard
>tables nor in the preamble have I read where that comes available. Was
>there a misprint or did I miss it. And any who have used the module, how
>did you treat it.

 Unfortunately, the Darrians module shows many signs of being an
incomplete editing job. Personally, I use SORAG when I want to
create Darrian Special Group Operatives...


>I wasn't aware before now that the Zho's territory
>extended so far rimward. I really have to get data on the Far Frontiers,
>Foreven and Vanguard Reaches Sectors. Can anyone give me some leads??? 

 For a dot map of the Core-Trailing quarter of Foreven, check my
(very small but still growing) website at:

 http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html

  and look in the Zhodani section.  As for an actual listing, Foreven
was set aside by GDW as a Referee's Reserve around the time TNE first
appeared. There is no official listing, just a dot map and seven named
worlds pulled from CT adventures.  See the sadly defunct Imperiallines
#1 for the article.

  Far Frontiers is an odd case. The Rimward half was done by several
parties (FASA, for the SkyRaiders trilogy; and Dale Kemper for
publication in Ares) in a piecemeal fashion. Dale's version saw
reprinting in the early issues of Traveller Chronicle magazine. The
Coreward half was done (by me, to be honest) much later and is
scattered through several issues of Traveller Chronicle. At this late
date I admit to being less than completely happy with my work, but if
you can stand some of my leaps of uh, creativity, it's all available from
Sword of the Knight Publications. My webpage will probably host some of
this material soon, as well.
  To complicate matters, Chuck Kallenbach extensively redid the
Vanguard Reaches after its publication by Paranoia Press (lo, these
many years ago), and his new version does not agree with the
FASA/Kemper version of Far Frontiers. His current version was available
on the website listed on IG's links page, but that page is dead at
the moment. My attempts to reconcile Dale's and my stuff with Chuck's
work were prematurely halted by a sudden onset of Real Life (tm) back in
late '94.


>Thanks for your help
>
>Jim

 No problem,

Jim Kundert (aka GypsyComet)
A Traveller since JTAS #3 (or couldn't you tell?)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:13:36 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Mass Detectors

>I'm imagining a warship straining with every passive sensor to detect a
>hostile craft. The crew doesn't move, doesn't dare breathe, so the mass
>detectors can use all their computing power looking for the bad guy
>instead of compensating for the crew movements...would kind of give you
>the tense feeling like those old WWII movies, with the submarine crew
>holding their breath as the enemy destroyer comes closer...
>
>Walt Smith

Yes, our mass detectors loose 1 factor when the ship uses
floorfield/inertial comp and another when using gravthrust/thrusterplates.
The mass signature also icrease quite a bit for targets using the above.
Mass detectors are IMTU also the only sensors that can look straight at the
sun without detriment (I use an unrealistically large 45 degrees cone where
sensitivity goes down by 1000 (logged to my logscale of course)) in the
hospitable zone.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:13:40 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures

>For IR, being underground or underwater helps. The deeper you are the
>more spread out the resulting "hot spot" is.

We (my Traveller group) just had this problem. They were searching for a
landed Corsair with a idlerunning p-plant doing 20 MW in a cold climate. I
argued that they at least wouldn't be able to pick it up from orbit as
water vapour would screen it but does anybody have some
figures/ballparks/wild guesses as to the detection range for a today
passive IR scope vs a 1 kW source, 10 kW source or whatever? Is the
absorption exponential (my guess) or what?

BTW (semi off-topic) Me and my girlfriend had a daughter last monday and we
still managed to play our regular session on friday (her character has END
11 but apparently she does as well).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:17:14 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!

On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:05:51 GMT, Phillip McGregor wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:01:48 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 18:52:33 GMT
> >From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
> >Subject: Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!
> 
> >You just love to stir up the pot, don't you Phil?  I still don't see the
> >reasoning behind repeated pessimistic comments when IG hasn't done anything
> >wrong /in the last few months/.  You *still* seem overly pessimistic about
> >IG's survival to me (or do you *want* IG to fail?).  Let it rest.  IG needs
> >optimistic support now if it is to survive.
> >
> >G:T will be the future of Traveller only for those people running campaigns
> >prior to 132-1116.  Here's hoping that another company (BTRC?) will acquire
> >the rights to continue supporting the Rebellion, Virus, and/or Milieu
> >eras...
> 
> Someone has kindly crossposted a message evidently from the HIWG list that
> *seems* to make it blindingly obvious that IG *has* folded ... no new products,
> *ever*. Loss of license, which reverts to Marc (great news that! now we may see
> someone who *has a clue* get T4.1 ... where can I sign up for my advance copy?).

IG had NOT "folded"!  Why, pray tell, do you believe it necessary to tell
us that your predicted demise of IG may come true?

If it is *blindingly* *obvious* that IG has "folded", I am 100% positive
that Marc would have come out and said so by now out of respect for the
TML.  Since he hasn't, I will rightly assume that things aren't as bad as
you make them out to be (yet).

> I don't think my doomsaying had anything at all to do with it, IG incompetence
> can be said to be 100% to blame, I suspect.

Maybe, but if they are honestly trying to get back on track, your tone
doesn't help things.  In the past few months the majority of your posts
have taken the anti-IG tone.  This is probably why you come across as being
overly pessimistic with regards to IG.  Are you in some way proud that your
earlier predictions regarding IG's downfall may be coming true?

> I don't know how "official" the above is, but it is *evidently* "common
> knowledge" in the right circles.

But it isn't "fact" and it would be irresponsible for anyone to say
otherwise at this time.  Children say "I told you so."



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 23:34:54 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: GURPS: Traveller (was Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!)

jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay) wrote

> G[URPS]:T[raveller] will be the future of Traveller only for those people running campaigns
> prior to 132-1116.  Here's hoping that another company (BTRC?) will acquire
> the rights to continue supporting the Rebellion, Virus, and/or Milieu
> eras...

How do you know that GURPS Traveller will be "the future of Traveller
only for those people running campaigns prior to 132-1116" ?

I have used both TNE and MT for campaigns set in the Classic Traveller
era.  Of the current Traveller systems my preference is for slightly
modified MT.  But of the current Traveller _settings_ my preference is
for the classic Traveller settings.

I do not see why you cannot use GURPS Traveller for Milieu 1084, Milieu
650, Milieu 0, Millieu 1128, Miliue 1201, or even Milieu -300,000
(although you will need a bit more than 100 point charecteres if you are
playing Ancients). 

Sure GURPS Traveller may be set up for Milieu 1116 and will quite likely
be so well done that most of its purchasers will want to play in 1116,
but the Continuity Gestapo are not going to come and break down your
door if you use it in a different setting.

I have a question for all those of you playing in a classic (pre 1116)
Traveller setting.  How do you "know" [other than by using "canon"] that
events describded in GURPS Traveller are not the correct ones, and MT
and TNE wont happen ?

For example _my_ answer to the question of to why Dulinor's ship blew up
is as follows.

My former player charecter Sir Sigrid Ottawa was psionic and posessed
precognition [TNE Arcana - Prescience TNE rules pg 258].  One afternoon
in 1083 while under the influence of Psi Special (ie at PSI 15) she
rolled a critical success at her Prescience task.  The referee used this
as an opportunity to forshadow every plot hook for the campaign, and
threw in the vision of (a much older) Dulinor shooting (a much older)
Strephon.  One of the other player charecters in that campaign, Captain
Sir Rueksdonneskhal Imperial Marines [yes he's a Vargr], happened to
read Sigrid mind a year later [a blatant invasion of her privacy] and
"saw" that at least five things she had foreseen had come true.  He had
no problem believing that this event would as well
_unless_someone_did_something_about_it_.  Now Sigrid ended up with a bad
case of dead before she got a chance to "take care of" Dulinor (probably
by "any means necessary") but I think that one of her shipmates
discussed the situation with someone who believed the story & started an
investigation.  This investigation uncovered Dulinors plan and stopped
it.  Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 23:44:50 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Hydrographics (was  Re: Possible NPC (longish) )

Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net> wrote

> > >>Vacuum *and* Wet? I think there's a bug...
> 
> Maybe not a bug...a feature. ;-> 
> 
> > > Don't they know think there's ice on the moon ? would kind of suggest
> > > Vacume and Wet is OK ...
>  
> > The ice deposits (if any) are *very* small.
> > The ice deposits are likely a *lot* less than even 1% of the surface
> > area, making the Moon have a Hydro of 0.
>  
> Right, the Moon would have a hydro of 0. Of course, Hydro 0 doesn't mean
> NO water, just less than 1%..or the way I'd define it, less than 1/2 of
> 1%, anyway.

Cannonically in Traveller Hydrographics 0 can have up to 4 % water (or
other liquid or ice). ( CT Scouts, MT Worldbuilders HB, and TNE Rules)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:18:38 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: CD ROM release and possible MAC problem

Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:


>Well, since any mac which can access a CD-Rom should have PC Exchange on
>it already (since it's a standard piece of System software since 7.0) that
>should be no problem. If you're burning a straight ISO9660 disk, you
>should have Foreign File Access (also system software) installed as well.
>I think, however, that it supports only the lowest of the ISO9660 format
>levels (8+3).

I know Toast normal limits you to 8 levels of directories (unless you
manually over-ride it), and IIRC it also truncates names to 8+3..

>'Twould be really nice if you could burn a hybrid cd with both PC and Mac
>directories on it...I know that most mac CD mastering software can do
>this...I don't know about PeeCee stuff.

If a lot of the material is pdf if doesn't matter so much...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 09:25:42 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Imperial Squadrons, Pocket Empires and War Fleets

> I must remind Simon and Rob that the the conversion is for Defense Factors,
> not Attack Factors.  This would reduce the above listed attack factors by
> half.  
> Forty (40) for CruRons and twenty-three (23) for BatRons.

I thought I had done it right?

48 AF's does an average of 18 damage
480 SDB's do an average of 19 damage (ignore TL mods)
this 1 AF is roughly equal to 10 SDBs in combat effectiveness.

CruRon AF = (P-2)/2+M
10 SDB = 1 AF in damage terms, but use 20 SDB = 1 AF in money

=> CruRon "cost" = ((P-2) + 2 M) x 10

I chose to adjust this to
CruRon "cost" = (P-2+M) x 10

A BatRon is twice the cost of a CruRon in Imperial Squadrons.  I could have 
based the conversion on BatRon attack factors, but that would have given too 
many sqadrons in my view.


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:40:43 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re IG Info --- I told you so!

>Well, they said that they were "restructuring", not closing their doors.
Oh, come on. Get real. They haven't made any money on it (by their own
admission) and they are paying off their debtors with a fraction of what
they owe. What do you think is going on? Like they can hardly start
producing stuff again and _not_ pay off their debts. That is going to take
a whack out of any profit margin that they might have starting up. Which is
why they have said they are not continuing.
Imperium Games is kaput. Gone. Dead. Will never publish again.
That isn't to say that IG2 won't be formed. But you can damn well bet that
it isn't going to be the same, debt inheriting, company.


>You *still* seem overly pessimistic about IG's survival to me.
> Let it rest.  IG needs optimistic support now if it is to survive.

See above. It just isn't going to happen. Just accept it and lets move on.
It is a Post-Imperium Games Era.


>G:T will be the future of Traveller only for those people running campaigns
>prior to 132-1116.

Which, to be fair, comprise about 75%-90% of people running campaigns.
;-)

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 05:25:45 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

Hello Bob and list,
  The comment about cost doesn't quite hold water to my viewpoint (which
can be wrong <grin>!)

1) fuel is needed for jumps right?  If the station ony deals with 7 100
ton x-boats - then we are looking at only 30/40/50/60 tons of fuel x 7, or
a range of 210 to 420 tons of fuel.  This is per week for just the
x-boats.  Add in another 420 tons for misclelanious usages for other
ships, and you should be able to keep the fuel costs down to reasonable
levels. 

2) food and other such supplies would be no more exensive than would be
required for other deep space installations.  Note that in PE, they give
an example of such a deepspace installation for their combat example and
attempted take over example.  Technically, it wouldn't be any more
expensive than having an X-boat system in a TL 4 or 5 world.  Both
"stations" need extensive resupply from other locations.

  All in all, I see no reason why such stations don't exist in the current
incarnation of Traveller other than "Because nobody has thought about it
as yet?"

    Hal

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 14:11:59 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, James Lindsay wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:27:39 EST, SemoFetus wrote:
> > >That's because your musical tastes don't include... The Ramones!
> > >RAMONESmania (1988) is *76:03* long, and it plays fine on my Sony 10-disc
> > >changer, Yamaha carousel, and Toshiba x4 & x24 CD-ROM drives (haven't tried
> > >it on the HP7100 yet).  Anyone care to guess how many tracks?
> > If its a Ramones disc that's 76 minutes long?  Probably 25-30 tracks. :^)
> 30 would be the correct guess (based on an average of 2:30 per song).  They
> do have one other CD with *32* tracks on it, so that CD might be even
> longer than 76:03.

Well, there is (was) a Finnish band, who first made covers of Ramones'
song in Finnish, but later wrote their own material. I have one CD from
them. It has 39 songs, but I can't remember the length.

(BTW, 2:30 average for a song by Ramones is IMHo too long, try 2:00 B-)

Mikko Parviainen
- -- 
How do I set my laser printer on stun?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 23:15:54 +1100
From: scout <scout@microtech.com.au>
Subject: RE: unsubscribing (was Re: GURPS: Traveller (was Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!))

At 23:34 2/03/98 -0900, you wrote:
>jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay) wrote
>
>> G[URPS]:T[raveller] will be the future of Traveller only for those
people running campaigns
>> prior to 132-1116.  Here's hoping that another company (BTRC?) will acquire
>> the rights to continue supporting the Rebellion, Virus, and/or Milieu
>> eras...
>
>How do you know that GURPS Traveller will be "the future of Traveller
>only for those people running campaigns prior to 132-1116" ?
>
>I have used both TNE and MT for campaigns set in the Classic Traveller
>era.  Of the current Traveller systems my preference is for slightly
>modified MT.  But of the current Traveller _settings_ my preference is
>for the classic Traveller settings.
>
>I do not see why you cannot use GURPS Traveller for Milieu 1084, Milieu
>650, Milieu 0, Millieu 1128, Miliue 1201, or even Milieu -300,000
>(although you will need a bit more than 100 point charecteres if you are
>playing Ancients). 
>
>Sure GURPS Traveller may be set up for Milieu 1116 and will quite likely
>be so well done that most of its purchasers will want to play in 1116,
>but the Continuity Gestapo are not going to come and break down your
>door if you use it in a different setting.

{bespectacled men in long leather jackets and with fatherly smiles stand in
a broken doorway}

Ahh yes.. zat is so true. Me und mien friends here from Calender complience
could not agree more...

However... vee seem to haff information of a different form of treachery...

Vee haff heard rumours that you vish to unsubscribe.....

This vay please

{bespectacled men drag you past doorway to waiting vehicle}


(joke guys.... :)

Harry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:58:45 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: TAS Encyclopedia

Someone asked about this a while ago - here's the more detailed pot I did
at the time...

The Travellers' Aid Society Alien Encyclopedia.

IBR Productions, Hemmingen, Germany. ISBN 3-89505-001-6. 250 DM (+30DM P&P
to UK).
Comments by Dominic Mooney:
A while ago, one of the German Traveller Mailing List members (Volker) drew my
attention to the existence of this book, and recommended it. Physically, it
is very impressive - 35mm thick x 270mm deep x 210mm wide, it is hardbound,
covered in a black mock leather, with the kind of ribbon page marker that
you associate with large reference books. It is very definately a quality item.

However, it's the contents that interested me more. For a while I've owned
both the DGP Alien Modules, and had started to hanker after the CT Modules.
This book contains all eight alien modules and 'alien realms' (the scenarios
book) published by GDW. In addition, it contains the draft material 'Aliens
for Traveller', an 8 page document originally from GenCon 1981. The alien
modules retain their original numbering, and are separated by colour plates
of the original covers. A few pieces of artwork have not translated well
(particularly those with greys on them) but everything is useable, and the
whole book is very tidy.

Those of you who want to know more about the modules are recommended to look
up Tim Collinson's 'The Traveller Bibliography' which has entries on them
all (and is available from BITS).

Would I recommend the book? Well, it depends.

- - Yes, if you don't own the original modules and want them (the cost of the
book was approx 115 inc. p&p when I bought it) in a nice, well made format
that should last for a long time. The material is usable with T4 (especially
if you are willing to tweak the rules a little and increase skills handed out).
- - Yes, if you really want a limited edition (200 total) signed by Marc Miller.
- - No, if you already own the Alien modules....

The book was purchased through Fantasy En'Counter in Germany. When I ordered
they could only accept Mastercard or International Money Orders, so I
suggest you have a look at their web page:
http://www.mag-net.de/FANEN/index.html
This has an e-mail address for Holger Willert, whom you can ask for more
details.

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #238
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, March 3 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 239



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Pocket Empires Review
Canopus, Aldebaran, Neworld, Banners, Hanstone, and Hadji
Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies
Re: T4.1 rules consistencies
X-Boats
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: Xboats and routes
Re: Xboats and routes
Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]
A bit off topic
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Imperial Lines
Re: Electronic Adventures
Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures
Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures
Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures
Re: A bit off topic
Re: News & Gratuitous Violence
Re: Electronic Adventures
Sureviellance Gear
Re: Xboats and routes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:15:02 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Pocket Empires Review

Someone asked about PE a while ago - this is the review from the last BITS
newsletter

POCKET EMPIRES
- --------------

David Burden, Stuart Dollar, Jo Grant, Andy Lilly and Joe Walsh, 101 pages,
15, ISBN 1 57828 374 4. Ratings: BITS ****.

Going one step beyond any previous Traveller supplement, Pocket Empires
gives you the rules for running an entire empire - whether you wish to fill
in some background for a campaign, allow your characters to get involved in
interstellar politics, or play out the development of multiple pocket
empires. The book includes descriptions of how an empire is created from
scratch or how you can gain control through politics, coups or other means.
The use of high-level meta-tasks make it possible to run things at a macro
level, while still allowing individual character abilities and role-playing
to influence the game. At a more detailed level, the rules cover pocket
empire economics (resources, productivity, trade, taxation, etc.),
development (infrastructure, population, starports, technology) and conflict
(building interstellar forces for defense or war).

The basis for running a Pocket Empire is economics - a planet must have the
appropriate population, infrastructure and technology level to exploit its
resources. Only large population worlds will tend to be sufficiently
productive to make a major impact at the interstellar level. From a world's
production, a certain part is available to the government to spend on
developing the planet, buying military forces, or for use in various
military and non-military strategies with/against other worlds.

We worked hard to create a strong role-playing aspect in Pocket Empires.
There are thus large sections describing the types of rulership available
within a Pocket Empire (in particular the archetypal Imperial noble family),
and the multitude of adventures that can be based within a Pocket Empire
environment. For quick resolution of a Pocket Empire's actions - from
interstellar diplomacy to warfare - we have used a meta-task system. There
are also a set of simplified rules to allow more detailed play for resolving
interstellar warfare on a grand scale!

The book is laced through with two example Pocket Empires - one the new-born
product of a noble family heading out beyond the borders of the Imperium;
the other a long-established empire seeking to maintain its power through
back-stabbing powerplay.

The comments from one of the RPG newsgroups was:

"Apparently all the ranting and raving about T4 has paid off...Marc Miller
seems to have Imperium Games back on track with Pocket Empires. To quote
part of the back cover blurb:

"Pocket Empires presents complete rules for players to own and manage
worlds. Generate income from worlds, assessing each for resources, labor,
trade and technology, then allocate revenue to build infrastructure, space
fleets, and more! Set interstellar economics in motion.

"Empire-building comes to Traveller in a big way with this terrific
cross-milieu sourcebook. PE covers the development of a ruling corporate or
noble dynasty, establishment and expansion of empire, means to maintain
political and military control, development and exploitation of planetary
resources, plus military and diplomatic conflict between pocket empires and
the Imperium. Equally useful for Milieu 0, Long Night, and Rebellion-era
campaigning, this is one *wifty* piece of work. Fans of the MegaTraveller
supplement Hard Times will definitely *love* Pocket Empires, and I'm certain
even detractors of Hard Times will find PE to be damn fine source- and
scenario material.

"All in all, this is a well-conceived, well-written and well-presented
product. Should Imperium Games maintain the momentum which Pocket Empires
will surely give it, this may be the book which rechristens the T4 line.
Without reservation I pronounce Pocket Empires a thoroughly wonderful,
useful (as well as wickedly fun) Traveller supplement."

Although written to a short timescale, PE seems to have proved very popular.
Nominally designed for the Milieu 0 setting, the rules are intended to be
sufficiently generic to run any 'empire' in any setting, from a single world
to a large collection of planets.

We at CORE worked hard to refine the rules and make them as playable as
possible, but the lack of play-testing time may mean that we didn't have
time to resolve all the potential pitfalls. The original intention was a
system which didn't require the use of a calculator. I have to admit that in
the end we found a calculator was a *requirement*! Nevertheless, I think
this should be a useful book for anyone who is interested in developing
their own areas of space in Traveller.

Review by David Thomas:

Pocket Empires (PE) attempts a very ambitious feat: to provide a self
consistent model for interstellar trade, growth and development. The five
authors actually do this very well, which is highly commendable, and rather
more than many professional economists can claim. PE also features a fair
model for large scale conflict, but I would have penalised HEPLaR using
technologies more heavily when they meet reactionless thrust opponents.
There is also a short section of adventure ideas where the PE acts as patron.

Unfortunately, PE isnt a playable game. This is as understandable as it is
unavoidable. Macro economic activity simply isnt that gripping. The basic
algorithms in PE are fine, they just require an awful lot of variables and
hard work, along with some dice rolling. This is emphatically not the kind
of thing you can run at the table. PE would lend itself much better to a PBM
or PBEM, or it could be used by a dedicated Referee to regulate the
background to the players adventures.

As to the book itself, it has the usual IG hallmark of poor organisation.
Following the rules is quite hard as a lot of factors and variables are used
in calculations before they have been introduced to the reader, which
results in a lot of flipping back and forth and, in my case, swearing. That
said, once youve got used to it its fine, except for one thing. PE insists
that a hereditary nobility is an efficient, natural and sustainable form of
government. This is demonstrably untrue. Luckily, the rest of the book
stands without the noble family bit, which is a mercy.

PE is unusual amongst official Traveller products in being readily
exportable to other systems, especially SpaceMaster, Battletech/Mechwarrior
and Fading Suns, all of which have this kind of pseudofeudal devolved power
structure. Actually, PE could be used to model the economic activity in the
background of any SFRPG setting.

Summary: Macroeconomics: good. Strategic warfare: nice. Adventure Ideas:
fine. Hereditary nobility: bad. Usefulness: specialised but high.

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:27:39 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Canopus, Aldebaran, Neworld, Banners, Hanstone, and Hadji

>Were the Canopus, Aldebaran, Neworld, Banners, Hanstone, and Hadji sectors
>ever generated and are they posted somewhere?
Non canonical versions of these are in Galactic format up on
ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/trav/classic.zip. They will (probably) be
released with Galactic 2.4 on the CDROM.
Cheers,
Jo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:16:25 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies

In a message dated 98-03-02 13:44:13 EST, you write:

<< 
 So the skills have been collapsed from the ones I expected, i.e. turret
 weapons, PA Weapons, etc, or Heavy Weapons (Grenade Launcher).
 
  >>
Yes. This system tries to apply skill based on usage rather tehan technology.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:16:23 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 rules consistencies

In a message dated 98-03-02 13:44:13 EST, you write:

<< 
 The only problem this represents for me is; is there a seperate skill for
 repairing and/or maintaining these items?  Or can a machine gun armorer
 also fix my FGMP?
 
  >>
	Armorer (Soldier)	Dex, Int
	Armorer skill is an expertise in the care of and repair of weaponry. The
individual can operate, maintain, and repair military and civilian weapons.
This expertise extends to small arms (hand weapons), heavy weapons, artillery,
and ships weapons. Weapons are made to be maintained and repaired; an
armorers experience and background includes a working knowledge of currently
available weapons, a historical knowledge of other weapons, and an ability to
find references which help in handling otherwise unknown weapons.
	Identification. An Armorer can identify weapons after an examination of the
weapon itself or of images of it.

	To identify an unknown weapon.
	(Int + Armorer) > Difficult (2.5D)
	Difficulty of this task will vary by specific weapon and whether images or
the weapon itself is available.

	Maintenance. An Armorer is responsible for preventative maintenance of
weaponry, carefully disassembling the equipment, cleaning it, replacing worn
parts, and then reassembling it.

	To perform preventative maintenance on a weapon.
	(Dex + Armorer) > Average (2D)
	Uncertain (1D). This task assumes proper tools and manuals are available.

	Repair. An Armorer is responsible for repair of weaponry in a unit or
organization, or on a ship.

	To repair a weapon which has malfunctioned.
	(Int + Armorer) > Difficult (2.5D)
	Uncertain (1D). This task assumes proper tools and manuals are available.

	Depending on the circumstances, this task may have other levels of difficulty
or uncertainty.
	Armorer is one of six members of the Soldier skill cluster (the others are
Ground Craft, Camouflage, Demolitions, Heavy Weapons, Tactics).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:47:33 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: X-Boats

HAL wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  Anyone want to calculate the "new" required times for information to
reach the outer limits of the imperium?  <grin>

  Just a few thoughts to share with you guys

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In 3I times information got from Core to the outer limits at Jump-6. The X-Boat
network was deliberately limited in jump speed so that Imperial agencies would
have a speed-of-information advantage over local and commercial concerns. These
J-6 couriers were not widely known, were externally identical to other
commercial craft of much lower jump rating, and were owned by the Imperial
family through a network of holding companies and silent partnerships.

In MT, this was how Duke Norris of Regina knew about the assassination of
Strephon before the general public did - giving him the opportunity to forge
his promotion to the leadership of the Domain of Deneb.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:33:14 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

>On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, GDW GAMES wrote:
>
>> Eris Reddochsaith,  in regards to Publishing stuff via the Internet
>>
>> >Yes, it's a concern of mine too. I don't think anyone has come up with the
>> >answer to the copy and redistribute problem, and that is going to delay and
>> >if we don't find an answer, probably, kill commercial electronic
>> >publication.
[snip]
>If the idea is to avoid distributing digitized copies of publications in a
>portable format like PDF, then I have a suggestion:
[snip some more]

You are still thinking too big.

I think the following approach is used for the "101" books (at least
initially and possibly throughout).

Prepare your document in 'digest' form.

Solicit orders from the TML.

Print one copy, color cover, B&W inside.

Take it to Kinko's (sorry, U.S. storefront printer) have them make 100 copies.

Sell at cost of 100 copies/100 + $0.50 for printer supplies via mail order.

If desired, do another print run and contact FLGS's directly to distribute
(lord knows whether you can get into the U.S. Game distribution market
effectively - and who really cares?)

That's my own plan anyway.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:50:04 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

Of course just because deep space x boat sites are not profitable(?)
commercially, there is no reason that the government can't use them for
military/political messages. I asume that the published (especially
supplements 3 and 10) data show the commercial x boat routes, and the military
deep space sites as state secrets are not show at all...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:06:01 +0000
From: "Robert Kondrk" <dss2@pop.erols.com>
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

> 1) fuel is needed for jumps right?  If the station ony deals with 7 100
> ton x-boats - then we are looking at only 30/40/50/60 tons of fuel x 7, or
> a range of 210 to 420 tons of fuel.  This is per week for just the
> x-boats.  Add in another 420 tons for misclelanious usages for other
> ships, and you should be able to keep the fuel costs down to reasonable
> levels. 

That's true, but it would still cost more since you'd have to have it 
carted in from surrounding systems. If your station is already within 
a system, most systems have "local" sources of fuel such as gas 
giants and planetary oceans that a station could use at lower cost.

> 2) food and other such supplies would be no more exensive than would be
> required for other deep space installations.

That's also true, but the cost to transport them would be less since  
much of it could be hauled using non-jump capable in-system shuttles 
that would have lower operating overhead than jump-capable 
freighters.

> Technically, it wouldn't be any more
> expensive than having an X-boat system in a TL 4 or 5 world.  Both
> "stations" need extensive resupply from other locations.

I think you bring up a point that I'd failed to consider here - tech. 
When I thought about this concept, I had considered just the basics - 
food, fuel, and personnel transportation. However, I guess that these 
costs would pale in comparison to what it costs to supply a station 
with higher tech items such as spare parts and maintenance. When you 
consider that, it's possible that the costs for the "basics" might be 
insignificant when compared to total operating costs.
Also, even though the cost for a deep space x-boat station might be 
slightly higher, I could see them being deployed in places where 
their strategic value would be more important than the added cost. 

>   All in all, I see no reason why such stations don't exist in the current
> incarnation of Traveller other than "Because nobody has thought about it
> as yet?"

I think you're right on this one too, and on further reflection I 
think it would add an interesting facet to the game. In fact, I think 
it might be possible to take the deep-space installation concept a 
few steps further to include refuelling stations and military 
installations too. All it would take is an economic or strategic 
rationale for these facilities to exist, which would be easy to 
justify in many cases.

Well Hal, I guess you made a "convert" out of me. :)

Bob Kondrk
- --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 17:16:21 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Sound Quality [was Re: Surveillance Equipment (more gadgets)]

At 02:44 1998-03-03 GMT, James W. Lindsay wrote (in reply to my post):
>> Try "Some girls wander by mistake" by The Sisters of Mercy. That record is
>> 79 minutes and 20 seconds long!
>
>By "record", I assume you are referring to "vinyl"?

Nope, CD. All the records I talked about are CDs.


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Linkping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:26:41 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: A bit off topic

Hi all,

I currently owe about a dozen people various bits of written or design, and
rather than try to dig up all the addresses and post separately, I'm doing
this here.  

Due to a steadily worsening medical situation, it's been difficult for me
to concentrate on doing Traveller work up to my standards.  So it's going
to take me a little longer to get you the materials you've asked for.  You
will get them eventually, but I can't say when at this point.

Thanks for listening.
- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:32:28 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

At 04:01 PM 3/2/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Hello Marc and list,
>  Just out of curiosity, how does an X boat actually work?  I have always
>thought that an X boat is a information dissembler first.  Also, I always
>figured that it was based upon the fastest the jump drive could go at the
>imperial tech levels.  Anything that requires a jump 2 or less to get to
>should be regulated to scout packets or regular mail packets.  Anything
>above that could be regulated by local fast boats.

The X-Boat system was a network of Jump-4 courier boats that worked much
like the pony express.  A X-boat jumps into a system, sends its encoded
data store to another X-boat waiting to jump to the next system, then
downloads the messages to the system's mainworld.

>  Overall, if I were the Emperor - trying to shave off as much time as is
>possible would be my goal for those x-boats...

The Imperial court maintained a secret group of Jump-6 couriers, to insure
that the nobility would have advance notice of news and policies.  Norris
used his head start on the news of Strephon's assassanination to declare
himself Archduke of Deneb, claiming it had come from the Emperor.
- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|          Embrace Fascism.          |
|       The uniforms look cool       |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:47:25 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Imperial Lines

Jim Kundert (aka GypsyComet) wrote:
>appeared. There is no official listing, just a dot map and seven named
>worlds pulled from CT adventures.  See the sadly defunct Imperiallines
>#1 for the article.

Were there ever more than just the first of these?  Does any one have
copies they'd be willing to loan me or copy for me so I can include the
contents in the sequel to the Traveller Bibliography which is intending on
covering periodical articles in a similar fashion to the books.

Yes, that's right, I said periodical *articles*.  I know I'm mad.  I wish
I'd never started!


While I'm here, is there anyone's whose seen my bibliography that would be
willing to write a review?  I know it's been mentioned a couple of times
but a review would be nice.

tc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:10:20 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

GypsyComet wrote:
> 
> Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca> asks:
> 
> >On an aside topic. If anyone has Darrians or is knowledgable on the
> >subject, I need some help. Under character generation cascade skills on
> >page 29 it shows Talent: ....., but nowhere in the MO, AS or High Guard
> >tables nor in the preamble have I read where that comes available. Was
> >there a misprint or did I miss it. And any who have used the module, how
> >did you treat it.
> 
>  Unfortunately, the Darrians module shows many signs of being an
> incomplete editing job. Personally, I use SORAG when I want to
> create Darrian Special Group Operatives...
> 
> >I wasn't aware before now that the Zho's territory
> >extended so far rimward. I really have to get data on the Far Frontiers,
> >Foreven and Vanguard Reaches Sectors. Can anyone give me some leads???
> 
>  For a dot map of the Core-Trailing quarter of Foreven, check my
> (very small but still growing) website at:
> 
>  http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html
> 
>   and look in the Zhodani section.  As for an actual listing, Foreven
> was set aside by GDW as a Referee's Reserve around the time TNE first
> appeared. There is no official listing, just a dot map and seven named
> worlds pulled from CT adventures.  See the sadly defunct Imperiallines
> #1 for the article.
> 
>   Far Frontiers is an odd case. The Rimward half was done by several
> parties (FASA, for the SkyRaiders trilogy; and Dale Kemper for
> publication in Ares) in a piecemeal fashion. Dale's version saw
> reprinting in the early issues of Traveller Chronicle magazine. The
> Coreward half was done (by me, to be honest) much later and is
> scattered through several issues of Traveller Chronicle. At this late
> date I admit to being less than completely happy with my work, but if
> you can stand some of my leaps of uh, creativity, it's all available from
> Sword of the Knight Publications. My webpage will probably host some of
> this material soon, as well.
>   To complicate matters, Chuck Kallenbach extensively redid the
> Vanguard Reaches after its publication by Paranoia Press (lo, these
> many years ago), and his new version does not agree with the
> FASA/Kemper version of Far Frontiers. His current version was available
> on the website listed on IG's links page, but that page is dead at
> the moment. My attempts to reconcile Dale's and my stuff with Chuck's
> work were prematurely halted by a sudden onset of Real Life (tm) back in
> late '94.
> 
> >Thanks for your help
> >
> >Jim
> 
>  No problem,
> 
> Jim Kundert (aka GypsyComet)
> A Traveller since JTAS #3 (or couldn't you tell?)

OK. Now I have an idea why it has been so hard to find the data. My
interest in the Far Frontiers started with the Sky Raider trilogy but
only one sub-sector map came in the trilogy. Thanks again. I'm off to do
research.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:45:30 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures

Anders Backman wrote:
> 
[snip the question I can't answer]
 
> BTW (semi off-topic) ??????  Me ?????? 

now there is some real science fiction

and my girlfriend had a daughter last monday 

congratulations to you both.

>and we still managed to play our regular session on friday 

 Mom and Dad are obviously doing well.

>(her character has END 11 but apparently she does as well).
> 

Best of luck 

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:02:08 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures

>BTW (semi off-topic) Me and my girlfriend had a daughter last monday and we
>still managed to play our regular session on friday (her character has END
>11 but apparently she does as well).

Congratulations!

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:29:01 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Sensors and Counter-Measures

Anders writes:
>We (my Traveller group) just had this problem. They were searching for a
>landed Corsair with a idlerunning p-plant doing 20 MW in a cold climate. I
>argued that they at least wouldn't be able to pick it up from orbit as
>water vapour would screen 
There are holes in the water vapour bands through which the atmosphere is
effectively transparent (in clear skies; you can't see through clouds until
you get to radio waves.) 

>it but does anybody have some
>figures/ballparks/wild guesses as to the detection range for a today
>passive IR scope vs a 1 kW source, 10 kW source or whatever? Is the
>absorption exponential (my guess) or what?
Atmospheric absorbtion is exponential (intensity goes down as exp(-tau),
where tau is the optical depth, which is proportional to distance), but
(as I said) at some wavelengths the atmosphere is pretty transparent (about
10% total absorbtion from space to the top of mauna kea at 2.1 microns, 
for example; perhaps 30-40% to sea level.) (Of course 2.1 microns is pretty
short IR.) The biggest loss in sensitivity is just due to background - the 
ground is pretty bright in the IR.

Personal experience - using an off-the-shelf 3-5 micron camera I can see
a light aircraft at about 10 miles easily, with no particular optimization
of the camera or image processing. The camera is about 10kg with a 35mm
lens. Dunno how many kilowatts a Cessna
puts out, though. Can anyone provide a number?

>BTW (semi off-topic) Me and my girlfriend had a daughter last monday and we
>still managed to play our regular session on friday (her character has END
>11 but apparently she does as well).
Congratulations!

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:41:03 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: A bit off topic

I hope you get better.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 13:04:21 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: News & Gratuitous Violence

David J. Golden wrote:

> At 12:43 am 3/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >>obTrav: How much control will Imperial forces have over press
> coverage of
> >>their battlefields? How often will 'news' sources in the very 19th
> century
>
>         Interesting tidbit I came across, browsing through the Uniform Code
> of Military Justice today... specifically the section on who is
> subject to it. Did you know that technically journalists travelling
> with military units are subject to military law?

Yes, but good ol' US Constitution is Supreme over the USMJ, so all First
Amendment rights are there.  I think they're subject to UCMJ by operation of
jurisdiction, i.e., military law on US bases.  Its like extraterritoriality.
Likewise, Imperium bases, embassys, military bases, etc. on member worlds will
be Imperium territory.  But will they control all of system space?  Thats a
broad interpretation of ruling "the space between the stars."  Perhaps they
need a legitimate reason (sort of like probable cause) to force ships in a
system to heave to.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 13:08:07 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Electronic Adventures

Rob Prior wrote:

> "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com> writes:
> >As far as a web re-print of Shadows (by the way Rob the graphics are
> >great,

[snip]

> Well, when I posted that material I _had_ the permission of the copyright
> holder, and I complied with all the conditions (I included the copyright
> notice, and I'm charging nothing).

Is it still up somewhere?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:05:34 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Sureviellance Gear

Merrick Burkhart wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Seeing through the atmosphere *down* is much better than up. Bruce,
what is adaptive optics seeing at these days? Some fraction of an
arc second. I could see it being maybe an order of magnitude better
looking down--so maybe headlines, anyway :-)

A ballpark I just did says that 14 point print would require seeing
on the order of 0.004 seconds of arc from 200km up.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

My brother just came back from US Army wargames, they were trying out a new information system. Every platoon and vehicle commander had a field-rugged laptop, working off a transmitted data feed. On his screen he could call up maps of the area, see unit locations (both friendly and spotted enemy), and even zoom in on certain locations. When you zoomed in, you were fed real-time video from satellites - the resolution was good enough to make out facial expressions. It was kind of need seeing the surprised look on the enemy LT's face when my brother's team got the drop on him.

The opposing force had no access to satellite data, but they did somehow manage to hack the data feed - there was some confusion from that. Still, even though the "info-heavy" team was outnumbered 2-1, they inflicted astonishing casualties - opposing force captured two guys (later rescued), lost 80% + of their force.

TL 12+ battlefield and surveillance sensors will be even scarier than this.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 13:02:56 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

Hello Bob and list,

>Well Hal, I guess you made a "convert" out of me. :)

  It isn't exactly my intent to make a convert out of anyone per se <grin>,
but to figure out the ramifications of what "man" would do if certain
things are feasible.  As another poster pointed out, military x-boats are
likely to be "state" secrets and not maintained on civilian charts (good
rationalization of why it's not on previous suppliments <wink>).  But these
secret installations would make sense actually - those jump-6 x-boats can
put into port there without being identified.
  With respect to the jump-6 ships being secret, I suspect that they aren't
a secret in the sense that people don't know they exist, but that they
don't know which ships aren't Jump-6.

  However, were I an enemy nation/corporation etc, I think I could find the
jump-6 ships given enough time, and enough patience.  Unless of course,
those jump-6 ships change names regularly.  But even so, their classes
can't be changed.

  You wonder How I would go about this?  Step one: get the listing of ship
arrivals and departures along with a date stamp.  Step two: correlate the
times from departures, along with distances.  Step three: find those
dates/times/distances that exceed the publicised information of the ship's
known abilities.

  Granted, one time specials would exist that exceed the normal class's
ability to function, but when you find many such examples of anomalies,
then you have an idea of what is what.

  Also, if you can get cargo handling information, fuel usage records, and
passenger manifests, it isn't hard to see that some merchant class ships
are not operating at full revenue generating ability.

  All of this assumes of course, that such information is available for
public use.  If the information needs to be stolen <shrug> then that is a
new ball game entirely...

         Hal

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #239
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, March 3 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 240



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Off topic but of interest to many
Re: A bit off topic
Re: Xboats and routes
IG on hold and new orders
Re: Possible NPC
Re: Thanks Mike
FS Maps
Re: TAS Encyclopedia
Vacuum worlds/Wet worlds (was Re: Possible NPC)
Re: News & Gratuitous Violence
Traveller-digest V1998 #236
RE: TAS Encyclopedia
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
The things I've seen...
Re: IG on hold and new orders
RE: TAS Encyclopedia
Re: News & Gratuitous Violence
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #235
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236
Re: Thanks Mike
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236
Re: Norris appointment (was Traveller-digest V1998 #236) SPOILER
Re: The things I've seen...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:51:37 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Off topic but of interest to many

Apple has posted the UK version of Mac OS8.1 upgrade on their European ftp
site. (This would be ftp://ftp.info.euro.apple.com )

Why mention it here? The new version of PC Exchange with this upgrade
reads long filenames (up to 32 chars) on floppy disks, though ,
apparently, not on the MS 'joliet' format CD-Rom. (I have one I made in
that format, and it still shows up with 8.3 filenames, which is ISO9660
level 1 support) 

I do not know about higher levels of ISO 9660 support which does include
256 character filenames.

This is important, because I'd like to be able to get long filenames on
the TML CD coming up.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 19:52:51 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: A bit off topic

On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:26:41 -0800, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I currently owe about a dozen people various bits of written or design, and
> rather than try to dig up all the addresses and post separately, I'm doing
> this here.  
> 
> Due to a steadily worsening medical situation, it's been difficult for me
> to concentrate on doing Traveller work up to my standards.  So it's going
> to take me a little longer to get you the materials you've asked for.  You
> will get them eventually, but I can't say when at this point.
> 
> Thanks for listening.

Sorry to hear that, Doug.  Take care... really.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:03:14 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

Hal;

I designed a TL15 jump 6 ship via HG 2nd. I'm not sure it's legal though
because I omitted the power plant (like the original x boat). Thus my ship has
no energy points to power the computer.

Hull 100 ton planetoid (80 tons usable volume) Cost     .11  Mc
jump drive                   7 tons                                 28      Mc
Internal Fuel              40 tons
Drop Tank               (20) tons                                     .04 Mc
Bridge                       20 tons                                     .5
Mc
model 6 comp.             7 tons                                 55      Mc
Stateroom                    4 tons                                     .5  Mc
cargo                          2 tons

Totals                    100 tons               Jump 6           84.15 Mc
Man. 0
        w/tank           120 tons               Jump 4

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 15:00:48 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: IG on hold and new orders

So with IG currently "on hold" and collecting their collective breath,
does this mean that they are or are not taking new orders for products?
I'd kinda like to know before I send in my c.card number for a couple
of things I want.  (My LNSFGS is almost comics-only now and act
like games are beneath them....) 

Plus, does anyone know if The Long Way Home (Part I) is still 
available? It's not listed on their order page any more... If not, does 
anyone have a copy or access to a copy that they'd be willing to work
out a way of buying for me?


**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 17:38:36 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Possible NPC

>>>I was playing with Paul Owensby's excellent Beginnings program (can't wait
>>>for the completed version!), and came up with this interesting character.

*plug plug plug*  <g>

>><kiaaaiiii snip!>
>>
>>>... At the Age of 62 You Have an Experience Which Changes Your Worldview
>>
>>
>>Jeezuz and the dancin' angels, this guy has been through a lot! Do all
>>"Beginnings" characters come out like this?

>Actually, most do have a rather detailed life history like this. My favorite
>is from another character I rolled up at the same time as this one...
>
>At the Age of 45 You Question Your Sexual Lifestyle, Role, or Orientation
>At the Age of 46 You Question Your Sexual Lifestyle, Role, or Orientation
>At the Age of 47 You Are Publicly Accused with a Crime
>
>I think this is probably one of the potentially "fun" programs for Trav yet!
>It's fun just to see how the character comes out and what sort of "history"
>it fits to him/her.

And to give credit where it is due, let's all give our thanks and a big round
of applause to Glenn Grant for not only creating the Life Events system and
posting it on the TML, but for graciously allowing it to be included in my
program. Some of the coincidences between what happens in a given term
and what comes up in your "background history" is spooky...

Glenn, take a bow!

P.S. I'm hoping in a future version to have a year by year playback of Life
Events and Skills earned, kinda like the old High Guard and Mercenaries
type of character gen (e.g., "Age 42, you get involved in a war or conflict:
Skills VaccSuit +1"). Right now you can only really correlate life events
and terms served. Of course, this is all dependent on my free time, which 
ain't a whole lot these days...


**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:53:12 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Thanks Mike

- -----Original Message-----
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: Thanks Mike


>In a message dated 98-03-02 22:01:42 EST, you write:
>
><< <<As far as a web re-print of Shadows (by the way Rob the graphics are
>great,
> however...) this involves GDW the original author (I don't have the book
any
> more so I can't look it up), and any number of other tangles. I'd think a
> totally new adventure might be a better choice. Anyone out there got
> something appropriate? >> >>
>
>The author of Shadows is Marc Miller.
>
Opps, I missed a comma in there, it should have read "Involves GDW  ,   the
original author (I don't hat the book...)... etc. My apologies Marc.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 16:54:17 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: FS Maps

Does anyone know what software was used to create the sector maps in
FS?  I'd like a blank one in the same format for Fornast, Delphi, and
Zarushagar.  I basically took a photocopy of each of the sectors in FS
then taped them together to make oe big map that I can draw on, mark
jump mains, trade routes, pocket empires and of course, x-boat routes.
I'd like to fill in the remaining sectors in the same format.

Thanks.

BTW:  isn't the FS data in a webpage somewhere?  It was a damn pain in
the tukas to find an Ind HiPop Wa planet for the homeworld of one of my
players (who used T4.1 for chargen) - finally found like a total of 5 or
so.  Was thinking a search utility would be great to find planets like
this or for other reasons.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:58:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: TAS Encyclopedia

On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, SD Mooney wrote:

> Someone asked about this a while ago - here's the more detailed pot I did
> at the time...
> 
> The Travellers' Aid Society Alien Encyclopedia.
> 
> IBR Productions, Hemmingen, Germany. ISBN 3-89505-001-6. 250 DM (+30DM P&P
> to UK).

[snip comments]

> The book was purchased through Fantasy En'Counter in Germany. When I ordered
> they could only accept Mastercard or International Money Orders, so I
> suggest you have a look at their web page:
> http://www.mag-net.de/FANEN/index.html
> This has an e-mail address for Holger Willert, whom you can ask for more
> details.

Marc Miller also sells them:  FarFuture@aol.com.  For people in the U.S.
that's probably easier than an international order.  Dom's comments are
good; I was worried it might not have been such a good purchase until I
actually had it in my hands, and then I was elated.  It costs a lot, but
if you don't have the stuff already, it's definitely worth getting.


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 17:17:18 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Vacuum worlds/Wet worlds (was Re: Possible NPC)

>Vacuum *and* Wet? I think there's a bug...

By the charts, that's the way it comes up, Wet being merely a description
of the amount of H20 to distinguish it from Desert, Dry, or Water Worlds.
I know that the Ice-capped description is used in world generation, but
I was just inputting what the char gen rules had to say.

If y'all'd like, it wouldn't be difficult to just put in a little procedure
in the
next version that looks for a vacuum atmosphere and describes the hydro-
graphics as Water(Ice) or Wet(Ice).

(Of course, like my feelings on the chart to roll your birthday on, we could
have a little faith in the people buying the game to know that any water on
a vacuum planet would be frozen. I think the typical Traveller player has
a little more going on upstairs than, say, your typical TMNT player <g>.)


**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 17:39:56 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: News & Gratuitous Violence

At 01:04 pm 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>David J. Golden wrote:
>
>> At 12:43 am 3/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>> >>obTrav: How much control will Imperial forces have over press
>> coverage of
>> >>their battlefields? How often will 'news' sources in the very
19th
>> century
>>
>>         Interesting tidbit I came across, browsing through the
Uniform Code
>> of Military Justice today... specifically the section on who is
>> subject to it. Did you know that technically journalists
travelling
>> with military units are subject to military law?
>
>Yes, but good ol' US Constitution is Supreme over the USMJ, so all
First
>Amendment rights are there.  I think they're subject to UCMJ by
operation of

	But you still have to prove to a court that the incident for which
you're being prosecuted under the UCMJ are a violation of the First
Amendment ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 22:00:44 +0100
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Traveller-digest V1998 #236

Mon, 02 Mar 1998 16:18:11 -0500 Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Yeah, I was wondering the same thing.  Is it like mail routes?  If so, do
>they actually ship packages or do they gather up digital data, pack it into
>computers and transmit once they get insystem? Do the ships just go back >and forth between two systems (transfering packages and mail through a >router) or does the X boat travel the whole route?

From supplement 7: Traders and Gunboats, p. 8:

"The express boat (also called an xboat) is a small, fast ship filled with a pilot compartment, message data banks, and jump drives. The fit is so tight that there is no room even for maneuver drives. Each is capable of jump-4 (four parsecs per week); it jumps, relays its messages to the station on arrival, and then waits to be picked up by a tender, to be refuelled and sent on its way with a new load of messages. The local station, meanwhile, accepts messages, encodes them, and transmits them to a tender at the edges of the stellar system. Messages brought by the arriving xboat and intended for further down the line are consolidated with the new data and all are sent on to another xboat already fuelled and standing ready to leave. The entire network operates like the pony express - messages are always moving at top speed. Transfer time for messages from one xboat to another can be as short as ten minutes, and is rarely more than an hour."

I think I can add to this:

Ordinary mail (packages and paper) is shipped with liners or subsidized merchants. The rules for trade (at least in MegaTraveller) states that a subsidized merchant can get a contract carrying mail back and forth between two or more systems. This is corroborated by a story told by the 'Old Timer' in SOM p. 47.

Someone else on the list wondered why the Xboat network is only jump-4. Lots of theories have been posted on the list, but there is one _fact_ that explains this a lot better that theories:

The Imperial household controls a series of indepedent, but astrographically slightly overlapping transport lines (where Imperiallines is the most famous). They operate a lot of jump-2 Frontier Transports - some of them, though, are secretly jump-6 capable and serve as fast couriers for the Emperor (Imperiallines and the organization is described in the Traveller Adventure - stats for the ships can be found in the Rebellion Sourcebook).

It was by this route that Norris learned about the assassination of Strephon before anyone else. It enabled him to act against public knowledge at that time, proclaiming himself archduke by the will of the Emperor. This is a pretty good example of why it would be in the Imperium's interest to keep the xboat routes at jump-4 - otherwise they would lose the advantage of advance knowledge.


Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
mse@oticon.dk (work)
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:10:17 -0800
From: jasonw@cylink.com (Jason Williams)
Subject: RE: TAS Encyclopedia

  Does anyone have the price in $US ?

	Jason
	jasonw@cylink.com

On Tuesday, March 03, 1998 1:58 PM, Clark Crawford [SMTP:crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU] wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, SD Mooney wrote:
> 
> > Someone asked about this a while ago - here's the more detailed pot I did
> > at the time...
> > 
> > The Travellers' Aid Society Alien Encyclopedia.
> > 
> > IBR Productions, Hemmingen, Germany. ISBN 3-89505-001-6. 250 DM (+30DM P&P
> > to UK).
> 
> [snip comments]
> 
> > The book was purchased through Fantasy En'Counter in Germany. When I ordered
> > they could only accept Mastercard or International Money Orders, so I
> > suggest you have a look at their web page:
> > http://www.mag-net.de/FANEN/index.html
> > This has an e-mail address for Holger Willert, whom you can ask for more
> > details.
> 
> Marc Miller also sells them:  FarFuture@aol.com.  For people in the U.S.
> that's probably easier than an international order.  Dom's comments are
> good; I was worried it might not have been such a good purchase until I
> actually had it in my hands, and then I was elated.  It costs a lot, but
> if you don't have the stuff already, it's definitely worth getting.
> 
> 
> Clark
> 
> 
> --
> "Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:14:19 -0600
From: "Chris Miller" <ironstar@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

>>  Just out of curiosity, how does an X boat actually work?  I have always
>>thought that an X boat is a information dissembler first.  Also, I always
>>figured that it was based upon the fastest the jump drive could go at the
>>imperial tech levels.  Anything that requires a jump 2 or less to get to
>>should be regulated to scout packets or regular mail packets.  Anything
>>above that could be regulated by local fast boats.
>
>The X-Boat system was a network of Jump-4 courier boats that worked much
>like the pony express.  A X-boat jumps into a system, sends its encoded
>data store to another X-boat waiting to jump to the next system, then
>downloads the messages to the system's mainworld.
- ----------->  lot of this type of information was actually in Sup 7 traders
& gunboats, where the X-boat & X-b tenders deckplans were found. Lotsa good
stuff in that one.
>
>>  Overall, if I were the Emperor - trying to shave off as much time as is
>>possible would be my goal for those x-boats...
>
>The Imperial court maintained a secret group of Jump-6 couriers, to insure
>that the nobility would have advance notice of news and policies.  Norris
>used his head start on the news of Strephon's assassanination to declare
>himself Archduke of Deneb, claiming it had come from the Emperor.

- -----------> this of course came out a bit later...maybe supp 9, also in MT

Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 20:11:49 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: The things I've seen...

>Loren *has* been hanging around SJG now, hasn't he?  I wonder how much he
>has *seen*...

Among other things, the Reverend Ivan Stang. 

L. K. "Loren" Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 16:27:26 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: IG on hold and new orders

Paul D. Owensby wrote:

> Plus, does anyone know if The Long Way Home (Part I) is still
> available? It's not listed on their order page any more... If not, does
> anyone have a copy or access to a copy that they'd be willing to work
> out a way of buying for me?

Paul,

I believe GNU World Games Ltd. in Victoria has a new copy of the above
(they did the last time I was there.)  Their e-mail is 
gnu@pacificcoast.net and their web page is www.pacificcoast.net/~gnu

or you can try Sentry Box in Calgary at http://www.sentrybox.com

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:31:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: RE: TAS Encyclopedia

On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Jason Williams wrote:

>   Does anyone have the price in $US ?

I paid $75 for mine.


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 20:44:15 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: News & Gratuitous Violence

David J. Golden wrote:

> At 01:04 pm 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >David J. Golden wrote:
> >
> >> At 12:43 am 3/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >>
> >>         Interesting tidbit I came across, browsing through the
> Uniform Code
> >> of Military Justice today... specifically the section on who is
> >> subject to it. Did you know that technically journalists
> travelling
> >> with military units are subject to military law?
> >
> >Yes, but good ol' US Constitution is Supreme over the USMJ, so all
> First
> >Amendment rights are there.  I think they're subject to UCMJ by
> operation of
>
>         But you still have to prove to a court that the incident for which
> you're being prosecuted under the UCMJ are a violation of the First
> Amendment ...

Yes.  That is the general process of constitutional defenses.  Its an
affirmative burden and the defendant has the burden of proof.

Ob. Traveller:  (don't know what the hell the "ob" part means - "objective"
maybe?)

Would a lawyer be best created through college and then agent (or should a law
school path be made since it is 3 years of school).  :-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 20:47:10 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

So when do xboats begin?  I keep seeing Jump-4 being the route, but I
don't know when the 3I makes the jump to that tech level.  If X boats
begin with the 3I, then they'd be jump 3 routes, wouldn't they, since
Sylea just reached TL12?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 20:24:05 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Seemann <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
To: Traveller mailing list <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 7:54 PM
Subject: Traveller-digest V1998 #236


>It was by this route that Norris learned about the assassination of
Strephon before anyone else. It enabled him to act against public knowledge
at that time, proclaiming himself archduke by the will of the Emperor. This
is a pretty good example of why it would be in the Imperium's interest to
keep the xboat routes at jump-4 - otherwise they would lose the advantage of
advance knowledge.
>Mark Seemann


Mark, I seem to remember in one of the MT books (3 boxed set) that Norris
was appointed Arch Duke by Strephon prior to the assasination.  Which is
collaborated in several of the other MT suppliments.  It seems to me that he
had been notified but not gone back for the ceremony when word was received
of Strephon's death.  Was this information in the TNE books? I just bought
the series last week and haven't been able to get caught up on everything
yet.  I might be drenched on this but I'll check out my books in a day or so
and see what I can find out.  As you might have surmised I got away from the
game for awhile and just recently got back.  Feels like a warm blanket on a
cold night.
Thom

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 21:01:10 EST
From: HaloqJakar <HaloqJakar@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #235

I lost digests V1998#224-234 could you please send them to me again?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 21:09:56 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236

>Mark, I seem to remember in one of the MT books (3 boxed set) that Norris
>was appointed Arch Duke by Strephon prior to the assasination.  Which is
>collaborated in several of the other MT suppliments.  It seems to me that he
>had been notified but not gone back for the ceremony when word was received
>of Strephon's death.  Was this information in the TNE books? I just bought
>the series last week and haven't been able to get caught up on everything
>yet.  I might be drenched on this but I'll check out my books in a day or so
>and see what I can find out.  As you might have surmised I got away from the
>game for awhile and just recently got back.  Feels like a warm blanket on a
>cold night.

Yes, IIRC, it was detailed in the Regency sourcebook.  I think that Norris
knew that Strephon was planning on appointing him Archduke anyway, so he took
the ball and ran with it knowing that the Marches needed a strong (and legit)
leader.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 21:22:20 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Thanks Mike

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael D. Peters <Letterworks@CITNET.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Thanks Mike


>Opps, I missed a comma in there, it should have read "Involves GDW  ,   the
>original author (I don't hat the book...)... etc. My apologies Marc.
>


I refuse to try and correct myself any more, it just makes things worse!
(sigh)

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 15:53:55 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236

At 08:24 PM 03/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Mark, I seem to remember in one of the MT books (3 boxed set) that Norris
>was appointed Arch Duke by Strephon prior to the assasination.  Which is
>collaborated in several of the other MT suppliments.  It seems to me that he
>had been notified but not gone back for the ceremony when word was received
>of Strephon's death.  Was this information in the TNE books? I just bought
>the series last week and haven't been able to get caught up on everything
>yet.  I might be drenched on this but I'll check out my books in a day or so
>and see what I can find out.  As you might have surmised I got away from the
>game for awhile and just recently got back.  Feels like a warm blanket on a
>cold night.
>Thom

It's in Survival Margin, and some other TNE stuff (I think). If you do some
check of infotmation propagation times for J-6 and J-4, I'm pretty sure
that it works out in MT that his new title is granted after the J-6
assassination 'wave' would've reached him.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 22:12:13 -0500
From: "Daniel Poulin" <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: Norris appointment (was Traveller-digest V1998 #236) SPOILER

There is a mention in the books that Norris appointed himself when he heard
that Strephon had been assassinated.  He had the news because of the J6
ships that brought him the news before the rest of the Marches.  He then
appointed himself.

His appointment was confirmed by Strephon in Arrival Vengeance (there are a
few great lines in there, especially about Norris' daughter).  The simple
act of appointing himself made him quite interesting as an NPC.  He could
have turned into a monster but was seen as a savior by the population.  His
act of appointing himself permitted him to gain power at a time where a
vacuum would have been catastrophic.

Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca

- ----------
> From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236
> Date: 3 mars 1998 21:53
> 
> At 08:24 PM 03/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >Mark, I seem to remember in one of the MT books (3 boxed set) that
Norris
> >was appointed Arch Duke by Strephon prior to the assasination.  Which is
> >collaborated in several of the other MT suppliments.  It seems to me
that he
> >had been notified but not gone back for the ceremony when word was
received
> >of Strephon's death.  Was this information in the TNE books? I just
bought
> >the series last week and haven't been able to get caught up on
everything
> >yet.  I might be drenched on this but I'll check out my books in a day
or so
> >and see what I can find out.  As you might have surmised I got away from
the
> >game for awhile and just recently got back.  Feels like a warm blanket
on a
> >cold night.
> >Thom
> 
> It's in Survival Margin, and some other TNE stuff (I think). If you do
some
> check of infotmation propagation times for J-6 and J-4, I'm pretty sure
> that it works out in MT that his new title is granted after the J-6
> assassination 'wave' would've reached him.
> 
> 
> -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>    Palmerston North
>    New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:24:32 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: The things I've seen...

Loren Wiseman wrote:

>>Loren *has* been hanging around SJG now, hasn't he?  I wonder how much he
>>has *seen*...
>
>Among other things, the Reverend Ivan Stang.
>
>L. K. "Loren" Wiseman

PRAISE "BOB"!  AND KILL HIM!!

Shucks, if G:T's gonna be Dobbs-approved, you can count on doing business
with me!  (But hurry up -- there's only four months and two days before the
Rupture.)

Maybe FINALLY we're going to find out what role the Bleeding Head of Arnold
Palmer played in the Fifth Frontier War!

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #240
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, March 4 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 241



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236
Re: News & Gratuitous Violence
Re: Imperial Lines
Final Draft - InterAct Music System, [Longish]
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Re: Norris appointment
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Re: X-boats
Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 1
Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 2
Zoetec Product Catalog, part 3

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 21:00:38 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236

At 08:24 pm 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Seemann <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
>To: Traveller mailing list <traveller@MPGN.COM>
>Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 7:54 PM
>Subject: Traveller-digest V1998 #236
>
>
>>It was by this route that Norris learned about the assassination of
>Strephon before anyone else. It enabled him to act against public
knowledge
>at that time, proclaiming himself archduke by the will of the
Emperor. This
>is a pretty good example of why it would be in the Imperium's
interest to
>keep the xboat routes at jump-4 - otherwise they would lose the
advantage of
>advance knowledge.
>>Mark Seemann
>
>
>Mark, I seem to remember in one of the MT books (3 boxed set) that Norris
>was appointed Arch Duke by Strephon prior to the assasination. Which is
>collaborated in several of the other MT suppliments.  It seems to me that he
>had been notified but not gone back for the ceremony when word was received
>of Strephon's death.  Was this information in the TNE books? I just bought

	Actually, the *only* place I've seen this was on the GURPS TNS web
site ... the "alternate" history. In fact, IIRC, in Survival Margin,
Strephon tells Norris he did the right thing by forging his
appointment ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 20:59:28 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: News & Gratuitous Violence

At 08:44 pm 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Ob. Traveller:  (don't know what the hell the "ob" part means - "objective"
>maybe?)

	"Obligatory" --i.e. the obligatory on-topic post to keep the Mailing
List Abuse Gestapo from genetically reprogramming you into a hamster
for posting something not directly related to the subject of the
mailing list.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 21:44:22 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial Lines

At 04:47 PM 3/3/98 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Jim Kundert (aka GypsyComet) wrote:
>>appeared. There is no official listing, just a dot map and seven named
>>worlds pulled from CT adventures.  See the sadly defunct Imperiallines
>>#1 for the article.
>
>Were there ever more than just the first of these?  Does any one have
>copies they'd be willing to loan me or copy for me so I can include the
>contents in the sequel to the Traveller Bibliography which is intending on
>covering periodical articles in a similar fashion to the books.


Yes - Issue #2 was published, but combined issue #3-4 never came out.
However, I do have a proof copies of both of these, and will send along
photocpies of them in my next package.

L8r,
Paul Sanders

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 00:56:01 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Final Draft - InterAct Music System, [Longish]

As I've said before, and will keep saying:  feedback of any sort, good, bad,
indifferent, ecstatic, violent, lewd, or psychotic is appreciated.  If you
like this type of stuff, and want to see more of it, tell me, please!

Okay, enough of my rambling, let's get on with it.  Enjoy!  :^)

"InterAct Music System"

The InterAct System is based on a design initially created by Makhidkarun, but
released throughout the Imperium as a standard.  Many entertainment systems
are fleshed out with this option, and Makhidkarun's software and hardware is
of the absolute highest quality.  Systems of varying quality can be purchased
from other corporations, but true fans of "kaadmukim" (a Vilani word roughly
translated as "interactive music") swear by Makhidkarun's extremely high
quality InterAct units.

Kaadmukim becomes possible around the time that houses, businesses and
spacecraft become "wired", with either one central computer, or several
dedicated control systems.  In a wired household, room temperatures are
adjusted to a (usually pre-set) comfortable level when the room is inhabited,
lights go on when someone is about to enter a darkened room, and go off a few
moments after a room is left unoccupied.  Many household items are wired, so
that they can be found easily should they become lost or misplaced.  Doors can
be automatically closed or locked, depedning on the pre-sets, outside lights
can be turned on when it is dark, an outside pool can be heated from the
living room couch, if such a thing is desired.  Basically, the house is
'smart' and does a number of minor chores as needed, and can be interfaced
with any number of specially made devices and robots.  The above examples only
scratch the surface of what is possible in 'smart' or 'wired' homes.

The InterAct Music System takes this concept to another level.  Speakers are
placed around the house for optimum listening enjoyment in much th same way as
they are placed for more traditional entertainment systems, and all of the
signals that go to and from the house's computer are turned into 'music'.
Pre-recorded sound and music tracks are recorded onto a kaadmukim cube, and
are played according to the digital signals that pump through the household.
Depending on the kaadmukim band's (or performer's) skill, the effects can be
amazing.  The cube is never heard the same way twice.  The tracks are played
in fashion that is apparently random, although is based on events that the
house computer is processing at the time.  As wired items are moved through
the house, seats are sat in, and appliances are used, the music will shift and
change according to the original band or performer's desires.  Kaadmukim
writing is an intense discipline in and of itself, because the performer has
to surrender much of the control and order to the 'chaotic' demeanor of a
modern household.  The basic effect of many kaadmukim cubes is that of a movie
soundtrack, or piece of classical music.  Themes are repeated in variations,
all aspects of the music are changed by the literally countless tasks the
house computer is performing, while underlying elements stay the same.  Some
fans of the medium prefer performers who forego any attempt of masking the
randomness with order, and enjoy the chaotic sound of what has come to be
known as "gushiimukim" (roughly translated as "music from chaos"), the random
patterns of a household are transformed into sounds and snippets that are, in
and of themselves, random.  The effect can be very fascinating, but can also
be very disconcerting and sometimes frightening as well.

Kaadmukim of all forms is a very popular medium, especially at parties and get
togethers.  An "asha kaadmukim" (roughly translated as DJ, or disc jockey in
crude 20th century english) will usually have a special deck with the ability
to hold more then one kaadmukim cube at a time and with the ability to mix
them and change them as desired.  A highly skilled "asha kaadmukim" will be
able to "smack the cubes" (manipulate a deck) with an ability and efficiency
that can be downright awe-inspiring.  A popular dance scene, with a huge
number of off-shoots and mutations, has sprung up.  One such offshoot, similar
to 20th century rap, has performers improvising rhymes over top of the ever
changing music.  No matter what, the way that a master "asha kaadmukim" can
move a crowd should not be underestimated.

In the first century of the Third Imperium trade normalized to the point that
a high-tech standard of living was possible more or less everywhere.
Kaadmukim systems became available nearly everywhere.  As now, these units
were very popular in dance clubs, as they created a unique experience for a
crowd, and experience of oneness that cannot be recreated any other way.  It
was common for an asha kaadmukim to pick cubes in which the beat would speed
up based on the heat of the room or venue that the system was installed in.
This is where, at least according to popular legend, the term 'heat up the
beat' came from.  This practice, however, turned out to be somewhat dangerous
to the dancers, and heat exhaustion became very common.  Some world,
subsector, and sector governments made this practice illegal.  In most areas
of the Imperium, 'heat up the beat' has a meaning similar to 'get down', 'rock
on', or 'let's boogie!'.  However, in some areas it has a shadier connotation
to 'heat up the beat', such as to undertake a deal or action that is either
somehow illegal or not completely on the up-and-up.


Tech Notes:  InterAct/Kaadmukim systems vary in quality and can be purchased
for between Cr500 and Cr5000.  This is for the system alone, and supporting
hardware, such as speakers, must be purchased seperately.  Tech levels for
availability also vary, and due to standardized 'smart home' hardware can be
manufactured on worlds with a technology level of 9 or better.  Systems for
asha kaadmukim use will be on the upper end of the scale, generally sold for
for Cr3000 to Cr6000.  They are large and bulky, and are made to be installed
in various locations.  They are in no way comfortably portable, although asha
kaadmukim units can be easily transported.  A number of attempts to create
lower-quality portable units have been tried, relying on digital information
gathered from a world's commnet and through sensor equipment built into the
system.  Most such attempts have failed for the marketers, as it seems enough
data for a truly engrossing experience can't be gathered easily.  These
devices are available and supported in some areas of the Imperium though.
InterAct datacubes can be purchased for between Cr20 and Cr100 new, or Cr5 and
Cr30 used.  The cubes are extremely durable, and due to the great length of
time these units have been in existence, there is a vast collectors' market.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 23:07:56 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

> Date:          Tue, 03 Mar 1998 20:47:10 -0500
> From:          Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
>
> So when do xboats begin?  I keep seeing Jump-4 being the route, but I
> don't know when the 3I makes the jump to that tech level.  If X boats
> begin with the 3I, then they'd be jump 3 routes, wouldn't they, since
> Sylea just reached TL12?

   The xboat system was established in 624, and covered the entire 
Imperium by 718.  (source: library data, MT Imperial Encyclopedia)


- --
Edward Swatschek - edjs@mindlink.net

The only truly "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that,
it's all learned. (Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org, in
comp.os.linux.misc, on X interfaces.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 02:18:14 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Norris appointment

It's an MT thing, not just TNE.  The Imperial Encyclopedia (MT) pg 50 under
"imperial stationary" that Norris promoted himself because of the J6 gap over
the public J4 xboats.  CT9:Fighting Ships has the 400dt J6 Fleet Courier.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 02:23:05 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote:

>So when do xboats begin?  I keep seeing Jump-4 being the route, but I
>don't know when the 3I makes the jump to that tech level.  If X boats
>begin with the 3I, then they'd be jump 3 routes, wouldn't they, since
>Sylea just reached TL12?

the Xboat network covers the whole 3I in 718 after being established in 624
(after the First Civil War) according to the MT Imperial Encyclopedia.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 22:36:43
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: X-boats

>From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
>Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
>
>So when do xboats begin?  I keep seeing Jump-4 being the route, but I
>don't know when the 3I makes the jump to that tech level.  If X boats
>begin with the 3I, then they'd be jump 3 routes, wouldn't they, since
>Sylea just reached TL12?
>
>Bloo

From memory, the Xboat system was set up by Arbatrella after the First
Civil Wars.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 02:48:58 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 1

Hello all,

The recent future-of-media thread has prompted me to finally put down in
writing a whole swarm of Equipment write-ups I've been thinking about for
some time. Many of these technologies already exist, at least in embryonic
form; I've lifted a lot of stuff from the MIT Media Lab "current projects"
list, among other sources. I aim for technical accuracy, or at least
plausibility, but I'm an SF writer, not an engineer or scientist, so no
doubt I've messed somewhere. *Informed* technical critiques are most
welcome.

I've tried to integrate these technologies as much as possible with T4
canon, in particular Greg Porter's CSC, and his Equipment chapter of T4
Book 1. I do not own any MegaTraveller or TNE books, so for all I know I'm
re-inventing the holodisplay, as it were.

There's more to come, when I can get around to writing it. I'd like to
write an article on the enormous social and economic changes brought about
by these and other technologies (you'll notice some cryptic references to
"media tribes", for instance) but that will have to wait, for now.

In the meantime, I hope you find this stuff useful.

Best,

Glenn Grant

===========================

- ---------------------------
Zoetec Inc. Product Catalog
- ---------------------------

See end of file for complete price list.


Media and Interface Technology
- ------------------------------

"HaloCaster" infrared datahalo link - 9 

A "data-halo" is a feature of virtually any electronic device with an
infrared link, surrounding the device with an invisible "halo" of data
which becomes visible only when viewed through smartglasses, or other
heads-up display. (These figurative "halos" should not be confused with
"holos" or holograms, an entirely separate medium.)
     A personal datahalo usually manifests as a clickable icon, logo, or
hyperlinked nametag, floating over the one shoulder or superimposed on the
wearer's body. When clicked, it downloads to the viewer's smartglasses a
greeting, business card, curriculum vitae, personal ad, homepage, and/or
consumer profile. Business datahalo icons generally appear in a shop window
or near the shop's entrance, and provide information about the products and
services offered within. A restaurant's datahalo, for instance, will
display the menu, images of dishes, and reviews by both culinary experts
and average customers. Government datahalo icons hang off of lamp posts or
walls, clickable for maps, service listings, transit schedules, interactive
tourist guides, historical info, police alerts, multilingual translations,
and so on.
     Advertising halos are, of course, ubiquitous, and attention-grabbing
halographic graffiti is a common sight in virtually any TL 9+ urban scene,
viewed through smartglasses. Always eager to spread the word, religious
evangelists and political activists like to stick solar-powered halochips
virtually everywhere. Faced with this profusion of overlapping halo images,
smartglasses filter halospace for info of relevance to the wearer, and
eliminate anything else, especially ads, unwanted solicitations, offensive
graphics, viral attacks, graffiti, etc. 
     At TL9 and above, virtually all products contain cheap one-way
halochips, even non-electronic items such as chairs, luggage, and wine
bottles. A typical consumer-product datahalo will include interactive user
guides, help files, safety warnings, serial numbers, catalogs of other
products by the same manufacturer or retailer, cross-promotional ads, and
contact info for the product's user tribe. Home and office computer systems
interact with the datahalos of every object within their purview, to
schedule regular service, replacement and recycling of perishables, ensure
product registration and insurance coverage, activate anti-theft
encryption, and so on.
     In workplaces, personal datahalos are used for security, to locate and
contact co-workers, and (where not prohibited by law) to monitor the
activities of employees. Halos also find a variety of uses at home and in
public. Even while walking through a mall or sitting in a cafe, people are
interacting invisibly, usually anonymously, seeking potential dates,
business contacts, media-tribe fellows, a lift uptown, or simply
interesting halo-chat. The enormous sociological effects of this simple
technology are too far-reaching to describe here. (For a good historical
overview, see Enzo Fjermedal's documentary _Data Tribes/Halo Nations_.)
     HaloCaster chips add nothing to the consumer price of a product. They
are standard in most Zoetec consumer items, while HaloCatcher sensors and
filters are ubiquitous in all Zoetec computers. Most of the cost for the
manufacturer is in the software, graphics, and text, more than paid for by
the valuable ongoing interaction with the customer.
     Most halocasters have a comm rating of 0.5 (at best 1), to a maximum
range of about 10m, limited to line-of-sight except where bounced off
ceilings or walls.


soundpanel - 10                 50Cr per 1m^2

A thin sandwich of accoustically-reactive, piezoelectric and flexile smart
materials, capable of sensing and accurately reproducing sound. Soundpanels
are usually linked to homecomp and media systems via infrared datahalo,
fibre optics, or the household electric power circuits. They can also act
as microphones for voice interfaces or telecomms. Quality of sound
reproduction is excellent for most purposes. Generally, the bigger the
panel, the better the sound: the accuracy of bottom-end frequency
reproduction is mostly a function of the soundpanel's area.
     It is rarely necessary for soundpanels to cover an entire wall or
room; typically two to four panels on the walls or ceiling are sufficient.
Only fanatic audiophiles are likely to need more, in which case they will
probably shell out for an expensive dynamic phased-array soundpanel system,
covering part of every wall, and the ceiling, plus subwoofers bolted to the
floor. An audiophile system can cost anywhere up to 100 times the usual
price.
     Soundpanels can also vibrate to produce anti-noise, reverse waveforms
which cancel out continuous or repetitious ambient sound. For instance,
they cannot eliminate car horns and loud arguments, but are quite effective
against howling wind, rumbling motors and the noise of large crowds. When
employed only to produce antinoise, they are often called "hushpanels".
     Zoetec soundpanels can be ordered in any possible combination of
color, pattern, and texture. Soundpanels are common ceiling or wall
coverings in all but the cheapest homes and workplaces above TL 10.


location field - 10                     Cr50 per 1m^2 of active area

A standard feature of all Zoetec homecomp systems, this nanoamp
electromagnetic field interface allows the system to track the user's body
movements. Thus, if the user points and asks, "What's this?", the system
instantly knows what is indicated, either in the room or on a display. By
tracking the user's movements between rooms, the system can adjust the
lights, open and close doors, bring up the soundpanel volume, clear the
domestic robots out of the way, and so forth.
      Location fields are generated by a grid of fine polymer conductors
and detectors, usually hidden within floor and wall coverings. Fields with
a range of one meter are also standard features of all portable Zoetec
video and computer displays, for tracking the user's hand gestures.
     Able to measure body size and shape, the field interface can
differentiate between individual users, recognize household pets, and
distinguish unauthorized intruders. No home or business security system is
complete without a location field interface.


smartpaper/smartbook - 10       By the sheet: Cr5 per 1m^2
                                40 page 9x15cm booklet: Cr30
                                240 page 11x17cm book: Cr 250
                                240 page 15x24cm book: Cr 500

A dynamic form of erasable electronic paper that stores and displays text
or flat images. Actually a sandwich of polymers with paperlike texture and
thickness, each sheet of smartpaper contains a layer of "digital ink", a
control grid underlayer, a printed computer chip, and (when sold by the
sheet) a digital radio reception layer. Digital ink particles can flip to
form high-resolution pixels in white, black, or various colors. Power
requirements are minuscule, supplied by a photoelectric layer on the
smartbook's cover. Smartpaper is pressure-sensitive, so the user can click,
write, or draw with fingertip or stylus . All Zoetec smartbooks feature a
holocrystal slot, fibreoptic, radio comm, and datahalo links, voice
interface and fingerprint owner-identification.
     Zoetec smartbooks with glow-in-the-dark Lumatone inks cost twice the
standard price.
     As digital ink is dynamic, it might seem that a single sheet of
smartpaper is all a person would ever need. In practice, however, people
still prefer to store information in books. Books are one of the simplest,
fastest, most intuitive data interfaces ever invented. The reader can
quickly flip to the index, re-read a previous page, then return to the
current paragraph, often with less effort than scrolling or clicking or
commanding a display to change pages. Whatever data is dumped into a
smartbook, it will stay on the assigned page, where the user can find it
easily, until it is moved or erased.
     Smartpaper is completely ubiquitous in all TL 10+ cultures, appearing
on everything from packaging and posters to wallpaper and warning labels.
At first it can update moving images at 15 times per second at best, but at
TL 12 color video can be displayed at 30 frames per second. Note, however,
that smartpaper is a poor substitute for a real video display (such as
Zoetec's "ViewSheet" displays). Besides the sluggish refresh rate,
smartpaper is not luminous; images recorded in video formats tend to look
drab and flat when displayed on smartpaper.
     Prices listed are for full-color smartpaper. Black & white or
monochrome smartbooks are half the price; specialized smartpapers designed
to display the same images over and over, used mainly in packaging and
advertising, are much cheaper still.
     White-light reflective holographic smartpaper is available at TL 14,
costs ten times as much, and is about 2mm thick. Due to bandwidth and
processor power limitations, it can only display still holophotos.


"ViewSheet" video display - 10   30x20cm: Cr 50
                                 1m wide, by the meter: Cr200
                                 2.5m wide, by the meter: Cr1000

A standard polymer video display, about 5mm in thickness. Can be rolled up
for transport. Features multi-screen windowing, self-configuring software
and hardware, location field (effective range of 1m), as well as
fibreoptic, radio comm, and datahalo links. Cannot display holographic
media.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 02:52:13 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 2

holocinema display - 10       Cr60,000 + 4000 per m^2;  computer: 60kg

A large-scale venue for viewing holographic movies is known as a
holocinema, holotheatre or holodrome. These establishments are shaped by
the complicated nature of holographic media. A hologram is much like a
window onto a 3D scene (real or computer generated). As a small window
would make it difficult for more than one person to view the scene,
holodisplays must be quite large to provide a whole audience with an
adequate view. The images can be made to float behind or in front of the
screen, but never beyond the screen's edges (as perceived by the individual
viewer). Thus, holoscreens are usually large and hemispherical, wrapping
around steep tiers of semi-reclined seats. Home holotheatres are possible
at TL 10, but are extremely expensive and often require an entire room to
be built specifically for the purpose.
     As in live theatre, each audience member has a different angle of
view, something holomovie directors must take into account. The audience
can be fully immersed in the action, but an actor performing an important
emotional scene must be placed so that every viewer can see his or her
face. As a result, holocinema audiences are used to constantly shifting
their attention from the centre of the dome to the area seemingly beyond
the screen. They are also familiar with holomovie cuts, which can be quite
startling to the uninitiated, as 3D objects and people appear to leap into
existence right in front of the viewer's nose, and disappear with the next
cut.
     Holomedia require vast amounts of bandwidth and considerable
number-crunching power. Even with object-modeling and advanced data
compression, the typical fibreoptic line is inadequate for transmitting
anything but tiny holovid images, a few centimeters across. A Zoetec TL 10
holocinema runs high-resolution holomovies recorded on ultradense crystals
and decompressed by a dedicated rating-4 computer array. TL 10 holocinema
displays are non-portable and are usually custom-designed to suit the
theatre.
     Price listed is for a theatre-sized holodisplay system with integral
soundpanels. Seating, building structure, and so on, are extra.
     Home units are prohibitively expensive custom luxury items -- at least
until the advent of Zoetec's TL 12 "VistaFlex" hologlasses, and TL 13
"DeepView" portable holovideo display systems.


"ViewShades" smartglasses - 9   Cr200 to 1000

Smartglasses are spectacles which superimpose a digital display over the
wearer's view of the world. Zoetec's "ViewShades" are available in a
seemingly endless range of styles and capabilities. At Cr200, the most
affordable models function as display units for comps and vidplayers,
linked by bodynet, datahalo, or fibre optic. A motion detector tracks the
user's head movements, while a short-range location field tracks hand
gestures. Of course ViewShades are also excellent UV-protective sunglasses.
     In addition to these functions, a top-of-the-line model, at Cr1000 or
more, will feature image intensifiers that turn night into day, infrared
vision (displayed in color or in shades of red), protection from low-power
laser blinding, voice interface, integral Aide, and vidcomm unit. It can
also act as a stereo-image video camera, or targeting sight, with motion
stabilization and eye tracking. All ViewShades include photoelectric
surfaces for recharging their batteries.
     Where datahalos are common, smartglasses become a basic necessity of
life. To walk the streets without them is to miss at least half the action:
the otherwise invisible world of halospace.


"VistaFlex" holospecs - 12              Cr400-3000

"VistaFlex" holospecs combine the style and features of Zoetec's line of
"ViewShades" smartglasses with the best TL 12 holovid display technology.
The VistaFlex line offers a profusion of fashionable designs and a range of
new capabilities.
     Watching holovids through holospecs is a radically different
experience from sitting in a holocinema theatre, where every member of the
audience has a different view of the action. In fact, most holomovies are
now edited in two forms, one for cinemas, and one for holospecs. Directors
have learned to take advantage of the holospec viewer's consistent point of
view and complete immersion in a spherical panorama. And interactive media
for regular smartglasses pale by comparison to the absolute realism of
interactive holomedia.
     Users unfamiliar with immersive media are cautioned that discrepancies
between inner-ear and visual sensory inputs can result in temporary
dizziness, nausea and blurred vision. Most people who have grown up in TL
9+ societies, experiencing immersive media every day from an early age,
rarely suffer from these effects.


"DeepView" holovideo display - 13    Cr6000 + 1000 per m^2  computer: 7kg

A portable holovideo display system, consisting of a polymer screen, about
5mm in thickness, and a dedicated rating-4 computer system (rating 2 for
non-holographic tasks). Can be rolled up for transport. Features
holocrystal slot, voice interface, location field (effective range of 1m),
as well as fibreoptic, radio comm, and datahalo links. Soundpanels not
included.
     Mounted on one wall of a room, the DeepView display makes an excellent
conferencing system -- wherever there is a TL13 fibreoptic net, capable of
handling the necessary bandwidth for holovid (comm rating 4). For the full
immersive experience, true holophiles usually build a home theatre, with a
hemispherical display. For the average household, merely wrapping a
single-piece 2m-high screen around one end of the living room is
sufficient.


"Esper" image processor - 13    Cr9,000 10kg

A highly evolved image processing system, the "Esper" is used by
investigators, scientists, and intelligence experts to extract the maximum
of information from visual media. Its scanner can digitize virtually
anything, from photographs to dynamic holoprints, at any resolution down to
the molecular scale (if necessary), while its file translation software can
parse a vast array of data storage methods, from long-outdated analog
videotape standards to hypercompressed holovid formats. Its dedicated
neural nets have a pretty good record of cracking even unfamiliar alien
media.
     The Esper boasts an impressive suite of powerful image analysis tools.
Given a dynamic holoprint, or even a flat photo still, it can construct 3D
models of the original scene. Extrapolating from reflections, cast shadows,
glare, and other cues, it can generate low-resolution views of limited
areas beyond the frame of the image. Employing every known enhancement
algorithm (such as edge detection, fractal expansion, false-color analysis,
and visual metalogics), the Esper can restore amazing amounts of detail to
digital mosaics, bring fuzzy subjects back into stunning focus, and
virtually eliminate motion blur.
     Provided with several frames of video or holovid, it can generate a
composite ultrahigh-resolution image of the non-moving parts of the scene.
The Esper can also stabilize a video clip, clean it up, break it down into
individual objects, extrapolate it in various directions, and apply dozens
of other manipulation techniques. Given a synchronized audio track, the
Esper can model acoustic conditions in three dimensions and identify likely
sound sources. Provided with a stereo-audio/video record of an
assassination, for instance, it could easily determine the number of guns
fired and their probable positions.
     Images are viewed and manipulated on the Esper's ultrasharp 1m
holoscreen, or other advanced holodisplay device. Like all Zoetech
computers, the Esper is equipped with an intuitive voice interface,
location field, bodynet interface and datahalo link.
     Computer rating: 4 for image processing, 2 for all other tasks.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 02:53:55 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Zoetec Product Catalog, part 3

General Hardware

"Lumacryl" lightpaint - 9         Cr10 per litre (1kg) [covers 30m^2 ?]

Photoluminescent acrylic-based paint; absorbs energy from sunlight or any
other bright light source, and emits it as a dim glow lasting several
hours. Glow-in-the-dark paint and plastic are common at lower tech levels,
but only in pale green and blue hues. At TL 9, new polymer design
techniques make possible a whole spectrum of stronger colors, from
UV-indigo through to deep red. When fully charged, the glow is bright
enough to read by, with a half-life of about an 30 minutes (30 minutes
longer with each higher Tech Level; at TL 12 the half-life is 2 hours, at
TL 15, 3.5 hours).
     Lumacryl lightpaint is commonly used on road signs, curbs, traffic
lanes, hazard stripes, warning symbols, runways, grav vehicle landing
zones, and a thousand other applications. Lightpaint can be a lifesaver in
the event of a blackout. (Warning: Zoetec strongly recommends against the
use of lightpaint as a replacement for powered street lamps and security
lighting.) Lumacryl paints and Zoetec's "Lumatone" glow-in-the-dark
printer's inks are commonly seen on outdoor advertisements everywhere.
      In some urban areas, the sale of lightpaint spraybombs is restricted
to adults, as graffiti that glows long after dark is even more intrusive
than during the daytime.
     Available in a wide range of tubes, cans, drums, and aerosol spray
bombs. Water-soluble until dry, then becomes permanent (can be dissolved by
Zoetec "Zymove-It" enzymatic cleaner).


"Lumilon" lightfabric - 9               Cr30 per 1m^2

Photoluminescent fabric, as popularized by Zoetec's line of fashionable
"Glo-Clothes" safety gear. "Lumilon" glow-in-the-dark fabric absorbs energy
from sunlight or any other bright light source, and emits it as a dim glow
lasting several hours. Available in an endless array of attention-getting
colors, textures, and styles. Though most commonly used in
hazardous-environment garments, tents, bags, ropes, and other gear, Lumilon
fibres can be woven into virtually any type of clothing (adding only about
Cr50 to the cost of a full suit).
     Many a lost traveller has been rescued thanks to Zoetec Glo-Clothes.
Also extremely popular among all-night dance clubbers.
     At TL 11, lightfabric can be electroluminescent, at no extra cost,
glowing for many hours from a battery or other power supply. Also available
at TL 11 is Zoetec "Vidlon" video display fabric, at Cr100 per 1m2. Vidlon
is a low-resolution video display made of optical fibres interwoven with
any other kind of fabric. When tailored into clothing, Vidlon is more of a
fashion statement than a useful video display. But it can be a worthwhile
safety feature when used in survival tents, glowing brightly and even
flashing messages if needed.


Medical and Security Technology
- -------------------------------

gene scanner - 10                       Cr2500  25kg

A diagnostic and security tool which scrapes dead cells from a person's
hand, extracts the DNA, and sequences it with a specialized molecular
manipulator array. At TL 10, a complete human genome takes 20 hours to
sequence, half that time at each higher Tech Level; thus 5 hours at TL 12,
and 38 minutes at TL 15. However, a full genome sequence is unnecessary for
identification purposes; a person can be identified to a high degree of
certainty within 1 hour at TL 10, 15 minutes at TL 12, and 2 minutes at TL
15. Where complete certainty is not needed, this time can be reduced
considerably.
     Most commercial identification scanners do not rely on actual gene
sequencing; metabolic scanners, for instance, use a variety of biometrics,
such as body size and shape, fingerprint, voiceprint, retina print,
brainwaves and various biochemical tags found in exhalations (cf CSC, p46).

     Ownership of gene sequencers requires a licence, as the potential for
abuse is considerable. Virtually all genetic indicators for disease
vulnerabilities and behavioral predispositions have been known for
centuries, as have effective gene therapies for most major disorders.
Genetic privacy laws have existed almost as long, and discrimination on the
basis of genetic profile is illegal. Unfortunately, abuses are difficult to
prevent where gene scanners are allowed to proliferate. Gene profile
databases are always heavily encrypted and carefully shielded against
electronic intrusion.
     Despite many legal challenges, insurance companies long ago gained the
right to require full genetic disclosure from potential clients. Where
health care is a social right, some governments have been known to require
gene therapies for individuals deemed to be at risk of certain diseases or
criminal behaviors. On some worlds, especially where the gene pool is very
small or population densities are critically high, eugenic programs have
been instituted, requiring gene scans and therapies for anyone seeking a
reproductive permit.
     AT TL 10, gene scanners are specialized by species, but above TL 14
they will function equally well for human DNA and the genes of most known
alien sophonts.
     Initially rather bulky, sensitive pieces of lab equipment, by TL 13
gene scanners are small enough to be included in a Medkit. They are
standard elements of any autodoc facility.


Zoetec Inc. Product Price List
- ------------------------------

Media and Interface Technology

"HaloCaster" infrared datahalo link - 9   (negligable cost)
soundpanel - 10                 50Cr per 1m^2
location field - 10             Cr50 per 1m^2 of active area
smartpaper - 10                 By the sheet: Cr5 per 1m^2
smartbook - 10                  40 page 9x15cm booklet: Cr30
"                               240 page 11x17cm book: Cr 250
"                               240 page 15x24cm book: Cr 500
"ViewSheet" video display - 10  30x20cm: Cr 50
"                               1m wide, by the meter: Cr200
"                               2.5m wide, by the meter: Cr1000
holocinema display - 10         Cr60,000 + 4000 per m^2; computer: 60kg
"ViewShades" smartglasses - 9   Cr200 to 1000
"VistaFlex" holospecs - 12      Cr400-3000
"DeepView" holovid display - 13 Cr6000 + 1000 per m^2    computer: 7kg
"Esper" image processor - 13    Cr9,000                 10kg

General Hardware

"Lumacryl" lightpaint - 9       Cr10 per litre (1kg) [covers 30m^2 ?]
"Lumilon" lightfabric - 9       Cr30 per 1m^2

Medical and Security Technology

gene scanner - 10               Cr2500                  25kg

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #241
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, March 4 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 242



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Norris's Archdukeal Appointment (was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236)
Re: Possible NPC
Re: Final Draft - InterAct Music System
Re: GURPS: Traveller (was Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!)
Why X-boats are J-4
Library Data quirks
Re: Why X-boats are J-4
Re: When the XBoat comes in! WAS Re: GURPS TNS
Re: GURPS: Traveller (was Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!)
re: TAS encyclopedia
Announcement of the Assassination of Strephon
Re: Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 1
Re: Final Draft - InterAct Music System
Re: Why X-boats are J-4
Re: The things I've seen...
Re: Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 1
Starship Expenses
Re: Announcement of the Assassination of Strephon
ATTN: List Operator
Re: Norris's Archdukeal Appointment (was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236)
Re: The things I've seen...
Re: Xboats and routes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 23:46:46 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Norris's Archdukeal Appointment (was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236)

"David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote

> >>It was by this route that Norris learned about the assassination of
> >Strephon before anyone else. It enabled him to act against public
> knowledge
> >at that time, proclaiming himself archduke by the will of the
> Emperor.

> >Mark, I seem to remember in one of the MT books (3 boxed set) that
> Norris
> >was appointed Arch Duke by Strephon prior to the assasination.
> Which is
> >collaborated in several of the other MT suppliments.  It seems to me
> that he
> >had been notified but not gone back for the ceremony when word was
> received
> >of Strephon's death.  

>         Actually, the *only* place I've seen this was on the GURPS TNS web
> site ... the "alternate" history. In fact, IIRC, in Survival Margin,
> Strephon tells Norris he did the right thing by forging his
> appointment ...

In MT Strephon did not appoint Norris Archduke in 1116.  He appointed
him Archduke in 1125, well after Norris fraudulantly appointed himself.
See Arrival Vengeance pg 23 for details.

The fact that in GURPS Traveller Strephon _did_ appoint Norris Archduke
in 1116 is strong eviedence that Strephon discovered Dulinors plot and
had him killed.  Strephon was presumably a bit shocked & hurt by this &
this caused him to start thinking about "the big picture" in the
Imperium.  He decided that some things needed changing & one of these
was to give Deneb its own Archduke.

Alternate scenario - In the canonical GDW MT universe someone in the
upper reaches of Strephons intelligence community did know about
Dulinors plot _but_ they also knew that the real Strephon was away from
Capital.  They did not have enough initiative (Don't you just hate those
darn Vilani sometimes ?) to take down an Archduke on their own so they
let the plot go foreward.

In the GURPS Traveller universe our hypothetical top level spook was too
hung over to come in to work the day Strephon was going to tell him he
was splitting for the Longbow site.  Thus our top spook thought the real
Strephon was still at Capital.  When he discovered this plan he let the
Emperor know about it (not knowing he was really dealing with one of the
clones).  The Strephon clone had Dulinor's shuttle destroyed & appointed
Norris Archduke.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 04:24:21 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Possible NPC

Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net> lauds,

>And to give credit where it is due, let's all give our thanks and a big round
>of applause to Glenn Grant for not only creating the Life Events system and
>posting it on the TML
>
>Glenn, take a bow!

Well <blush>, okay--

<sound of forehead hitting keyboard: kkarrunnnch>

Doh.

 + GMG +

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 04:24:25 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Final Draft - InterAct Music System

SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>

>"InterAct Music System"
[clippification]

>Kaadmukim becomes possible around the time that houses, businesses and
>spacecraft become "wired", with either one central computer, or several
>dedicated control systems.  In a wired household, room temperatures are
>adjusted to a (usually pre-set) comfortable level when the room is inhabited,
>lights go on when someone is about to enter a darkened room, and go off a few
>moments after a room is left unoccupied.  Many household items are wired, so
>that they can be found easily should they become lost or misplaced.

Holy synchronicity, Batman.

Semo, your posting of this item, mere *hours* before my own mega-post re:
Zoetec media systems, such that it appeared only 5 messages prior to mine,
is just plain creepy.

BTW, nice work on the InterAct system. Todd Machover's going to chase after
you for patent infringement, of course - but if so, then I'm gonna have
half the Media Lab, and XeroxPARC, after my blood :)

"Smack my cube up!" <BOOMthoompthoompthoomp...BOOOM>

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 09:28:51 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller (was Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!)

On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 23:34:54 -0900, Peter Newman wrote:

> jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay) wrote
> 
> > G[URPS]:T[raveller] will be the future of Traveller only for those people running campaigns
> > prior to 132-1116.  Here's hoping that another company (BTRC?) will acquire
> > the rights to continue supporting the Rebellion, Virus, and/or Milieu
> > eras...
> 
> How do you know that GURPS Traveller will be "the future of Traveller
> only for those people running campaigns prior to 132-1116" ?

That was just a polite way of saying that SJG will only be producing
"source material" to continue supporting the CT era.  It can be rather
difficult to continue playing a discontinued system if your referee prefers
to use published material appropriate to the era of his campaign.

> I have used both TNE and MT for campaigns set in the Classic Traveller
> era.  Of the current Traveller systems my preference is for slightly
> modified MT.  But of the current Traveller _settings_ my preference is
> for the classic Traveller settings.
> 
> I do not see why you cannot use GURPS Traveller for Milieu 1084, Milieu
> 650, Milieu 0, Millieu 1128, Miliue 1201, or even Milieu -300,000
> (although you will need a bit more than 100 point charecteres if you are
> playing Ancients). 

There's nothing stopping you from using the GURPS *rules* to do this.  I
was referring to /published support material/ for the other three eras.
When IG first released T4, they mentioned possible support for a bunch of
milieus-- including some of the ones you mentioned.  SJG has made no
mention of this.

> Sure GURPS Traveller may be set up for Milieu 1116 and will quite likely
> be so well done that most of its purchasers will want to play in 1116,
> but the Continuity Gestapo are not going to come and break down your
> door if you use it in a different setting.

As for GURPS somehow magically convincing me that playing in their
Traveller universe is somehow better than anything GDW, IG, or myself could
come up with is a matter of opinion-- mine.

> I have a question for all those of you playing in a classic (pre 1116)
> Traveller setting.  How do you "know" [other than by using "canon"] that
> events describded in GURPS Traveller are not the correct ones, and MT
> and TNE wont happen ?

Sure, campaigns currently set before 132-1116 could conceivably move ahead
as if the assassination never happened.  There is no doubt in this and I
never said that it was an impossible future.  It is just a shame that a
long and extensive existing timeline won't continue to be used by SJG.





James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  4 Mar 98 10:08:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Why X-boats are J-4

On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 20:47:10 Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> Wrote...
> So when do xboats begin?  I keep seeing Jump-4 being the route, but I
> don't know when the 3I makes the jump to that tech level.  If X boats
> begin with the 3I, then they'd be jump 3 routes, wouldn't they, since
> Sylea just reached TL12?
    Not having my copy of the original Book 6, Scouts handy this is from memory
but the whole J-4 xboat route system was established shortly after the Imperium
reached TL13 which allows J-4.  Circa 350??? I think.  Which makes sense
because the Imperium was expanding like crazy throughout Milieu 0 and continued
to do so through out the next Milieu towards the Rim.
    At some point it became obvious that without some system of pan Imperium
communications the Imperium was going to fragment.  Once the system was in
place it doubtless took decades if not centuries to put in place and then
refine for maximum efficency.  That also means there was an Enormous investment
in current equipment even as the Imperium's TL rose to allow J-5 and J-6
respectively.
    Figure that each "leg" or "jump" of the network needs a MINIMUM of four
couriers.  One in jump, one in system from jump and being recovered, one
recovered and being preped for the next jump and the fourth on station waiting
for a courier to jump in so they can jump out to the next system in the chain.
Add in a MINIMUM of two tenders, one to go get the courier and the other to
place it to be ready to jump and another facility to handle the tenders and the
couriers.  And this doesn't include any slack at all for problems or annual
maintenance and what not. ;)
    Now figure the costs of all that and start multiplying it by the number
systems serviced by the network.  This is NOT a trival sum even for the
Imperium!  More to the point by "freezing" the technology at TL13 it makes
local sources for spairs easier and doubtless cheaper to obtain.  Sheer inertia
would keep the system at J-4 because of the ENORMOUS investment of upgrading.
    Rather like the reluctance of local telephone companies to invest all that
money to rip out the copper wires and put in fiber optics.  Who is going to
foot the bill for this extremely costly upgrade for a modest performance
upgrade?  Is how the bureaucratic mind looks at it. ;)

    All that said, I forget the source (TNS??) but there were plans afoot in
the CT universe to actually start the upgrade to J-6 using drop fuel tanks for
the couriers.  I suspect the Imperial J-6 network was an MT add on.  Obvious in
retrospect, but still an add on STS.

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:46:54 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Library Data quirks

TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com> wrote:
>It's an MT thing, not just TNE.  The Imperial Encyclopedia (MT) pg 50
under
>"imperial stationary" that Norris promoted himself because of the J6 gap
over
>the public J4 xboats.  CT9:Fighting Ships has the 400dt J6 Fleet Courier.


That's what I *love* about Traveller Library Data entries, wouldn't you
just think of looking up that fact under 'Imperial Stationery'?

(Although to be fair, this was the ref's notes on the Library Data).

tc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 03:11:03 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4

> From:          s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
> Date:          Wed,  4 Mar 98 10:08:00 GMT 
> 
> I suspect the Imperial J-6 network was an MT add on.  Obvious in
> retrospect, but still an add on STS.

The existence of a secret J-6 network was established in the CT days, 
as part of the Traveller Adventure (Imperiallines being the Spinward 
Marches part of the network).



- --
Edward Swatschek - edjs@mindlink.net

The only truly "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that,
it's all learned. (Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org, in
comp.os.linux.misc, on X interfaces.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:49:23 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: When the XBoat comes in! WAS Re: GURPS TNS

On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, SD Mooney wrote:

> And if you want another idea.... publish and expand the 1105 to 1115 TNS
> news reports as a referee's aid. My favourite MT supplement was a TNE one -
> *Survival Margin*, the perfect referee's resource to get the players
> feeling it's happening out there...
> 
That's a funny coincidence to me ...

I'm working on a Library Data in Windows Helpfile-Format, and think of
doing the same to the TNS messages. I collected the ones from the IG
Website, but they only got until 1119. Does anyone have the later in text
format (Although they go to TNE)?

I put the libdata.hlp file on my Website. You can visit it if you want,
although I am working at it yet. You can find an early version of this
file along with a self-programmed Sector data viewer at

       http://www.uni-koeln.de/~acp82/Ancients

As I stated above, the site is still growing, so have patience.
The part already available is the humour page ...
Tell me if you have comments or problems with some details.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 15:03:33 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller (was Re: Re IG Info --- I told you so!)

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Peter Newman wrote:

> My former player charecter Sir Sigrid Ottawa was psionic and posessed
> precognition [TNE Arcana - Prescience TNE rules pg 258].  One afternoon
> in 1083 while under the influence of Psi Special (ie at PSI 15) she
> rolled a critical success at her Prescience task.  The referee used this
> as an opportunity to forshadow every plot hook for the campaign, and
> threw in the vision of (a much older) Dulinor shooting (a much older)
> Strephon.  One of the other player charecters in that campaign, Captain
> Sir Rueksdonneskhal Imperial Marines [yes he's a Vargr], happened to
> read Sigrid mind a year later [a blatant invasion of her privacy] and
> "saw" that at least five things she had foreseen had come true.  He had
> no problem believing that this event would as well
> _unless_someone_did_something_about_it_.  Now Sigrid ended up with a bad
> case of dead before she got a chance to "take care of" Dulinor (probably
> by "any means necessary") but I think that one of her shipmates
> discussed the situation with someone who believed the story & started an
> investigation.  This investigation uncovered Dulinors plan and stopped
> it.  Thats my story and I am sticking to it.
> 

This is the beginning of alternate timelines expanding (Remember, in fact
every game master develops his own one.) A nice idea, as precognition also
fits to the Trav universe (I think the Zhos would do the heck to prevent
this ...)

I do not yet know into which timeline my group will get, as we still have
1105, i.e. two years before the 5th frontier war. I even think of letting
them visit BOTH via an ancient time portal ... but this is only an idea to
work out. There would be much alternatives to prevent the assassination.
The ancient artifact of the Zhodani Consulate (The one showing the Core
Missions) could also work. There are much possibilities to unfold the
future.

Whatever you want to play instead, it's your decision as a master.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:54:06 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: TAS encyclopedia

David Reed posted me this - reply is to list as mail to him directly  bounced.

>>The operative question is:  Is it in English or German?
>>
>>If the former, I'll definitely buy it...
>
It is in English, and a complete reprint of the original modules + alien
realms + aliens in Trav handout.

I was impressed with it. The shop needed a little prompting to post (mainly
because they were preparing for Germany's biggest con) but were very
helpful. It is one of those tomes that engenders a feeling of respect (it
feels really nice, and you can see this by the way the players gingerly
handle it).

I don't regret buying it (I only had the MT aliens stuff before this).
Apparently  K'Kree warships look like the ships in Independence Day!!

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:19:10 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Announcement of the Assassination of Strephon

MT Rebellion Sourcebook p16

Imperiallines Type TJ notification @ Regina 328-1116
Naval J6 Courier @ Regina 342-1116
XBoat J4 @ Regina 124-1117

Also, look at
p49 and p50's entry's in the Imperial Encyclopedia which discuss (1) why
the J4 Xboat is standard and mention that Norris was  never officially
notified of his elevation (Imperial Stationary)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:32:56 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 1

Some really impressive stuff!

Thanks,
Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:39:16 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Final Draft - InterAct Music System

>Semo, your posting of this item, mere *hours* before my own mega-post re:
>Zoetec media systems, such that it appeared only 5 messages prior to mine,
>is just plain creepy.

Ha.  I guess it is kind of weird :^)

I had been promising a final draft to several people before I posted it, and I
finally got the time to hammer out the rough edges.  I wouldn't worry too much
though, as far as I know, I came up with the idea independently.

Synchronicities are always fun, though! :^)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 10:41:02 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4

s.johnson107@genie.geis.com wrote:

> On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 20:47:10 Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> Wrote...
> > So when do xboats begin?  I keep seeing Jump-4 being the route, but I
> > don't know when the 3I makes the jump to that tech level.  If X boats
> > begin with the 3I, then they'd be jump 3 routes, wouldn't they, since
> > Sylea just reached TL12?
>

- --------------8<----------------

>     Figure that each "leg" or "jump" of the network needs a MINIMUM of four
> couriers.  One in jump, one in system from jump and being recovered, one
> recovered and being preped for the next jump and the fourth on station waiting
> for a courier to jump in so they can jump out to the next system in the chain.
> Add in a MINIMUM of two tenders, one to go get the courier and the other to
> place it to be ready to jump and another facility to handle the tenders and the
> couriers.  And this doesn't include any slack at all for problems or annual
> maintenance and what not. ;)

I was wondering how they dealt with scheduling.  Since it takes a variable amount
of time to jump (6-8 days), you can't be sure when the next Xboat will arrive.  If
you take off too early, the incoming message has to wait because the outgoing xboat
has already left.  This gets even more complicated at multi-directional nodes,
where you have 3 or more jump routes.

One solution to the scheduling problem is jumping every 9 or 10 days rather than
trying to skim off a couple days here and there. You assume the worst case 8 days
in jump.  Then another day or two for tending the ship (some larger systems may
require greater insystem travel time).

This gives a hard schedule to all the systems in the area, "Mail goes out every
10th day. Get it to the xboat station on time or you'll have to wait 10 more
days."  The number of ships required gets reduced to 1 Xboat per leg.  Likewise,
you can cut the time down by doubling ships.  Two ships per leg can manage a 5 day
schedule.

However, this doubled pace only helps once or twice (getting to the first Xboat
station an getting the message from the tail end). After that you multiply the
number of legs by 10 to get the days travelling. I don't think that it would be
economically efficient to try the 5 day schedule let alone the daily scheduling.

>     All that said, I forget the source (TNS??) but there were plans afoot in
> the CT universe to actually start the upgrade to J-6 using drop fuel tanks for
> the couriers.  I suspect the Imperial J-6 network was an MT add on.  Obvious in
> retrospect, but still an add on STS.

Wouldn't drop tanks become a travel hazard since you're using the same route
repeatedly?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:57:06 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: Re: The things I've seen...

GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com> (really that Loren character) said:
>> Loren *has* been hanging around SJG now, hasn't he?  I wonder how much
he >has *seen*...
>
> Among other things, the Reverend Ivan Stang.
>
> L. K. "Loren" Wiseman

Praise Dobbs!  Should we be expecting a "Yaskodray is JVH-1" or "Dobbs
killed Dulinor" TNS entry soon?

The Semi-Enlightened Steven Charlton

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 10:42:05 -0600
From: Matt McLaughlin <mkm@umr.edu>
Subject: Re: Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 1

> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 02:48:58 -0500 (EST)
> From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
> Subject: Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 1
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> The recent future-of-media thread has prompted me to finally put down in
> writing a whole swarm of Equipment write-ups I've been thinking about for
> some time. Many of these technologies already exist, at least in embryonic
8><--------

> In the meantime, I hope you find this stuff useful.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Glenn Grant
8><--------

This is some _great_ stuff!  Thanks, Glenn!

> "VistaFlex" holospecs - 12              Cr400-3000
> 
> "VistaFlex" holospecs combine the style and features of Zoetec's line of
> "ViewShades" smartglasses with the best TL 12 holovid display technology.
> The VistaFlex line offers a profusion of fashionable designs and a range of
> new capabilities.
> 
8><--------
 
So, at what TL do these become surgical implants? ;-)

Matt McL

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 11:43:59 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Starship Expenses

I've been reviewing the starship expenses in TNE.  p. 222 states that
each occupied stateroom has a 2000 credit overhead per trip (2 weeks).
Double occupancy doubles that. That means 1000cr/person/week.  That
can't possibly be food, so what's the rest of it?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 08:43:13 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Announcement of the Assassination of Strephon

At 12:19 PM 3/4/98 +0000, you wrote:
>MT Rebellion Sourcebook p16
>
>Imperiallines Type TJ notification @ Regina 328-1116
>Naval J6 Courier @ Regina 342-1116
>XBoat J4 @ Regina 124-1117
>
>Also, look at
>p49 and p50's entry's in the Imperial Encyclopedia which discuss (1) why
>the J4 Xboat is standard and mention that Norris was  never officially
>notified of his elevation (Imperial Stationary)

Ah, but when the Arrival Vengence arrived at Trin, it carried a letter from
Strephon confirming the elevation of Norris to the Archduchy of Deneb.  So
it was legal all along.  I love power politics.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:44:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@THEIIA.ORG>
Subject: ATTN: List Operator

- --Boundary_(ID_rnFbsLUmr7zxG/LCTGtqLA)
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN


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(bprankard@theiia.org) to be taken off the TML.  I have tried to   
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Thanx in advance.

Bill Prankard  
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- --Boundary_(ID_rnFbsLUmr7zxG/LCTGtqLA)--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 08:48:20 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Norris's Archdukeal Appointment (was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236)

At 11:46 PM 3/3/98 -0900, you wrote:

>In MT Strephon did not appoint Norris Archduke in 1116.  He appointed
>him Archduke in 1125, well after Norris fraudulantly appointed himself.
>See Arrival Vengeance pg 23 for details.

Minor quibble.  Strephon *confirmed* Norris' elevation.  This minor legal
point makes Norris the legal Archduke of Deneb from the day of his
announcement.  The paperwork just got held up for nine years.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry   dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
|--------------------------------------|
| "Oscar Wilde only wishes he was this |
|  gay!"        -Crow T. Robot, MST3K  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 08:51:06 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: The things I've seen...

At 08:11 PM 3/3/98 EST, you wrote:
>>Loren *has* been hanging around SJG now, hasn't he?  I wonder how much he
>>has *seen*...
>
>Among other things, the Reverend Ivan Stang. 

More and more, I'm getting the feeling the Steve Jackson is Yaskodray, and
the door to SJG is a portal to his pocket universe...
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:03:25 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

In a message dated 3/3/98 13:11:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:

<< I designed a TL15 jump 6 ship via HG 2nd. I'm not sure it's legal though
 because I omitted the power plant (like the original x boat). Thus my ship
has
 no energy points to power the computer. >>

I think the design MUST have a Power Plant, it's the Maneuver drive that is
left out IIRC.

Ed (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #242
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, March 4 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 243



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Possible NPC (longish)
Bellerophon, Asteroid Navigation
Re: FS Maps
X-boat System
Re: X-boat System
Re: Why X-boats are J-4
Re: Why X-boats are J-4
Re: Imperial Lines
Re: X-boat System
Why are X-Boats only Jump-4?
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Another Lurker
Re: News & Gratuitous Violence
Re: The things I've seen...
Vland and Sylean Mains
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236
101 Books contact.
Solomani & Vargr alike?
What I've seen Part II
Re: Xboats and routes
Re: Imperial Lines
Re: TAS/JTAS
Re: Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 1
Re: CD ROM release and possible MAC problem (fwd)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:31:10 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

Michael D. Peters wrote:

>Actually, most do have a rather detailed life history like this. My favorite
>is from another character I rolled up at the same time as this one...
>
>At the Age of 45 You Question Your Sexual Lifestyle, Role, or Orientation
>At the Age of 46 You Question Your Sexual Lifestyle, Role, or Orientation
>At the Age of 47 You Are Publicly Accused with a Crime

Pshaw!  This almost exactly describes a mere 24 hours of my last weekend!
And I'm decades younger than that!  Buncha late-blooming pansy-assed
sluggards, these Traveller "Beginners"!  Must be that creeping Vilani
cultural/genetic contamination.  Bah!

WHATTA WIMP!!!!

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: 04 Mar 1998 11:45 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Bellerophon, Asteroid Navigation

I. Bellerophon
- --------------

I was looking at _Nomads of the World Ocean_, and started thinking
about their planet, Bellerophon, a high tech world with almost no
dry land.

Two billion people live there, mostly in pylon cities whose spires
sometimes reach over 3 kilometers tall.  I tried to break down the
numbers and came up with this:

A. General Population Dispersal

Pylon cities		85%	1.9B
Sea-bottom complexes	10%	230M
Raft cities			 50M
Sea Nomads			 50M

B. Pylon capacities:
	Small	Med	Large	Huge
Height	1km	2km	3km	4km
Vol	0.9Mt	3Mt	6.5Mt	9Mt
Pop	45k	120k	250k	450k
- -------------------------------------
%	20%	60%	15%	5%
Tot	9k	72k	33k	22k

Avg: 136k per generic pylon

26 Pylon cities --> 100M pop avg per city
		--> 800 pylons per city

C. Pylon Population Dispersal

Pop	cities	pylons per city	  total capacity
- ------------------------------------------------
50M	2	400		  100M
100M	3	800		  300M
150M	4	1200		  600M
200M	3	1600		  600M
250M	2	2000		  500M
				----------------
				  2.1 Billion



II. Asteroid Navigation
- -----------------------

Suppose you wanted a breakneck dogfight in an asteroid field
a la Star Wars?  Here's what I thought might go into it:


Asteroid belts can be wide or narrow, dense or sparse.
The number of turns it takes to go _through_ an asteroid
field depends on width:

narrow  : 4 combat turns
moderate: 8 combat turns
wide    : 12 combat turns

To get through the asteroid belt, both the pilot AND astrogator
must roll once per turn to avoid belt debris.  The difficulty
is average if the belt is sparse; increase by one difficulty level
if it is moderately dense, or two levels if it is dense.  Likewise,
decrease the difficulty by one level if the crew is being careful
and slow, or increase the difficulty by one level if the crew is
being hasty (or in a dogfight).

Asteroid damage can be fatal, since they are generally just large 
massive objects colliding with your ship.  Let's say one impact
does 2d6 hits to your ship, and roll on the damage table.

Needless to say, small craft will get pummelled if they hit one
of these babies.

With these kind of odds, you better have a really good pilot/
navigator set.


Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 10:35:11 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: FS Maps

At 04:54 PM 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anyone know what software was used to create the sector maps in
>FS?  I'd like a blank one in the same format for Fornast, Delphi, and
>Zarushagar.  I basically took a photocopy of each of the sectors in FS
>then taped them together to make oe big map that I can draw on, mark
>jump mains, trade routes, pocket empires and of course, x-boat routes.
>I'd like to fill in the remaining sectors in the same format.

I am working on a program to generate PostScript sector/subsector maps.
Right now, I have a rather hostile command line based one that reads data
in a somewhat arcane format, but it runs on Macs and PCs.

The current push is to put in a good GUI interface and implement in Java.
At this point, I can select the appropriate subsectors to draw, and it
generates most of the Postscript.  I need to fix a few other things before
it is ready for a first beta, but it should be done fairly soon.
(Depending on how my ever-present job hunt goes.)

Scott 
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:54:31 -0600
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: X-boat System

Steve Daniels asked:

> So when do xboats begin?  I keep seeing Jump-4 being the route, but I
> don't know when the 3I makes the jump to that tech level.  If X boats
> begin with the 3I, then they'd be jump 3 routes, wouldn't they, since
> Sylea just reached TL12?

As has been pointed out, the xboat system was one of the reforms that
Arbellatra Alkhalikoi instituted as regent immediately after the end
of the Imperial Civil War.  At that time, the highest tech level that
was generally available was 13, so the system was instituted at jump-4.

Prior to that, mail crossing the empire traveled through the regional
postal unions, which mainly operated at the county to subsector level.
These were operated by the member worlds, not by the Imperium, and were
one of the few interstellar associations worlds could have that the 
empire tolerated.  Many followed the general outline of pre-Imperial
pocket empires.  These tended to operate at average speeds of jump-2 
or below, as local technology and trade supported.  I get the idea
that after the xboat system is in place, they continue to operate as
feeder systems between member worlds and the nearest xboat nodes.

Besides Imperiallines and similar operations, there's another mention
of jump-6 xboat traffic in early Traveller.  Some TNS entries circa
1105-1106 mention the Imperium beginning to institute drop-tank equipped
jump-6 xboats on major links, supposedly to integrate Regina by 1115.
A similar project to build high-capacity liners for Tukera was plagued 
by problems at the General Products fabrication plant on Pixie, which
culminated in the Trimkhana-Brilliance disaster.  (Drop tanks failed
to separate cleanly on jump insertion.)  My reading is that between
the war and possible engineering problems, the project was set back
by years.  However, this would fit in with MT/TNE comments regarding
Strephon's interest in reforms to tie the empire together more closely.
I also get the impression that the Core-Marches link was considered one
of the more important segments, so if that part of the project got
derailed, it's no wonder we don't see much other evidence of its
existence.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:12:18 -0600 ()
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: X-boat System

>As has been pointed out, the xboat system was one of the reforms that
>Arbellatra Alkhalikoi instituted as regent immediately after the end
>of the Imperial Civil War.  At that time, the highest tech level that
>was generally available was 13, so the system was instituted at jump-4.


Others have mentioned that the reason j4 is used for xboats is for military
and political reason -- i.e., knowledge is power, and the military and
government want that power. My question is then -- why was the xboat
network established at the maximum jump capable at the time? Surely the
people that instiuted it knew about the knowledge=power thing.

Handwaves, please! We're listing to starboard!

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 15:20:49 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4

The only real comment I have about the J-4 routes overall, is that they
seem to be inefficient.  If communications is the issue here, and speed is
important, then the highest form of efficiency would seem to be called for.
 I think what I will do later on tonight if I can, is look at the spinward
marches, and consider what it would take to create an X-boat route that
cuts time off from the amount of time it takes for information to reach
from one diagonal to the next...  At that point, when I do it, I will make
note of the "locations" of the x-boat routes and the "revised" routes and
see how well they compare.  I will also look at how long it takes for
information to reach high pop worlds...
  It does occur to me as well, that there can be "official" X-boats and
unofficial X-boats.  The unofficial boats are created by private
governments to link up to official x-boats in order to speed up their
turnaround times...
  I will see what comes of it tonight...

       Hal

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 15:24:09 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4

Hello List,

>Wouldn't drop tanks become a travel hazard since you're using the same route
>repeatedly?

  Two answers to this question.  The first answer is "recycling".  If it is
commercially worth the effort - a simple radio beacon on the jump tank plus
an ordinary Manuevere ship can get those tanks easily enough...

 The second answer is "an object in motion remains in motion unless acted
upon by an outside force.  This means that the drop tanks are going away
from the "exit jump point" and eventually, if they have stellar escape
speed, leaving the system etc...

     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:30:11 +0000
From: David Scott <Snail@dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Imperial Lines

>>>See the sadly defunct Imperiallines
>>>#1 for the article.
>>
>>Were there ever more than just the first of these?...

>Yes - Issue #2 was published, but combined issue #3-4 never came out.
>However, I do have a proof copies of both of these, and will send along
>photocpies of them in my next package.

Does anyone in the UK (London area if poss) have a copy of this...

David

mailto:Snail@dircon.co.uk
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~snail/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 15:31:13 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: X-boat System

On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
> Others have mentioned that the reason j4 is used for xboats is for military
> and political reason -- i.e., knowledge is power, and the military and
> government want that power. My question is then -- why was the xboat
> network established at the maximum jump capable at the time? Surely the
> people that instiuted it knew about the knowledge=power thing.

I would guess that the xboat network was established as the fastest
possible at the time.  As technology progressed, the xboat network
was left alone, maybe because it was too much trouble to upgrade the
whole network or maybe because the bureaucracy was just too sluggish
to change.   The military would, of course, take advantage of these
advances, and use J-6.

Bolie IV

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:44:58 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Why are X-Boats only Jump-4?

Joseph Deitrich writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Others have mentioned that the reason j4 is used for xboats is for military
and political reason -- i.e., knowledge is power, and the military and
government want that power. My question is then -- why was the xboat
network established at the maximum jump capable at the time? Surely the
people that instiuted it knew about the knowledge=power thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

IMO, it looks like Arbellatra established the system with a high vision
of rapid communication throughout the Empire. "We shall join the Empire
together with a system of communication, X-Boats, and they will have the
fastest jump drives our technology can create!" - once
you have an idea like that, it's hard to go with second best. Besides, there
were already swarms of Jump-2 scout/COURIERS plying the spaceways...
there weren't enough jump numbers to fit between "best available for secret
government stuff" and "Jump-2 ships everyone has" to allow X-Boats to not
be the best.

It was only later, as jump-5 and jump-6 became available, that Emperors
and their servants recognized the possibilities. The expense and disruption 
of upgrading the X-Boat system to Jump-5+ was a legitimate reason it stayed
at Jump-4, but not the only reason.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 17:13:08 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

Edward Swatschek wrote:

> > From:          Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
> >
> > So when do xboats begin?
>
>    The xboat system was established in 624, and covered the entire
> Imperium by 718.  (source: library data, MT Imperial Encyclopedia)

Thanks.  Surely the early 3I would have some parallel wouldn't it?  At Year
0 it would be reorganizing to Jump 3?  No?  Yes?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 16:50:18 -0500
From: "George Royal" <groyal@isoa.net>
Subject: Another Lurker

Greetings

I have been lurking on the TML for a couple of months now, and have
really enjoyed the content(even the off-topic rants).
A week or so back a set of space combat roleplaying rules was posted to
TML.  Somehow, I lost mine. Any chance of anyone e-mailing these to me.
Also needed is the final price and address to purchase the Traveller
CD-ROM that hs been discussed on list.

Thanks

George Royal- Fellow Traveller (not in Marxist sense!) since 1983

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 17:10:57 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: News & Gratuitous Violence

David J. Golden wrote:

> At 08:44 pm 3/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >Ob. Traveller:  (don't know what the hell the "ob" part means -
> "objective"
> >maybe?)
>
>         "Obligatory"

Much thanks.

> --i.e. the obligatory on-topic post to keep the Mailing
> List Abuse Gestapo from genetically reprogramming you into a hamster
> for posting something not directly related to the subject of the
> mailing list.

Oops!  He said "hamster!"

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 17:49:46 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: The things I've seen...

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> More and more, I'm getting the feeling the Steve Jackson is Yaskodray, and
> the door to SJG is a portal to his pocket universe...

Just for grins I've calculated the following under two different numerological
systems.
I am too lowly an initiate to be able to determine the significance.

where a . . .z = 1 . . .26

STEVE JACKSON
19+20+5+22+5 10+1+3+11+19+15+13 = 143 = 8
(Note: Steve Jackson Games = 188 = 8)  !!!
(SJG = 9)
(Gurps = 81 = 9)
(Traveller = 113 = 5)
(Gurps:Traveller = 194 = 5)

YASKODRAY
25+1+19+11+15+4+18+1+25 = 119 = 2

MARC MILLER
13+1+18+3 13+10+12+12+5+18 = 105 = 6
(Marc Miller's Traveller = 105 + 19 + 113 = 237 = 3

**************
where a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j . . .  = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1 . . .

STEVE JACKSON
1+2+5+4+5 1+1+3+2+1+6+5 = 36 = 9
(Note: Steve Jackson Games = 54 = 9) !!!
(SJG = 9) !!!
(Gurps = 27 = 9) !!!
(Traveller = 9)  !!!
(Gurps:Traveller = 36 = 9) !!!

YASKODRAY
7+1+1+2+6+4+9+1+7 = 38 = 11 = 2

MARC MILLER
4+1+9+3 4+9+3+3+5+9 = 50 = 5
Marc Miller's Traveller = 6+9 =15 = 6


Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 18:08:13 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Vland and Sylean Mains

I made a huge map by taping all the FS maps together and found out how
large the Vland and Sylean Jump 1 Mains are.

Vland Jump-1 Main cuts a largely diagonal swath from 1209 Lishun all the
way down to 0102 Ilelish.  It was a large concentration in the southern
sub-sectors of Vland (virtually all systems in subsectors
g,h,k,l,m,n,o,p and Lishun e, i, m.  It goes as far coreward as 1701,
1901 Vland (and possibly beyond - I don't have maps for other sectors).

Sylea Jump-1 Main is less regular in apperance.  It most easily though
of as three branches, roughly centered at 0622 Core  (this assumes you
don't consider Zarashugar).

From 0622 Core, it travels in an expanding triangle trailing to 2615
Core and 2625 Core.

From 0622 Core spin/coreward to 2412, 2512 Dagudashag.

From 0622 Core rim/spinward to large cluster in Subsector P Dagudashag
with 2437 Dag. as the most spinward system.  That branch then turn
trail/rimward to 1305, 1404 Masilia.

Interesting notes:
This gives the Sylean Jump-1 Main a rough semi-circle around the
Chanestin Kingdom.  It also seems to skirt much of the main systems of
the Interstellar Confederacy in subsectors A,B, C, E, and F of Core.

I'll do Antares next.

I greatly welcome any campaign plot elements this information might be
useful with regard to, especially circa Mileu 0.

Any requests for other mains?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:17:21 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #236

On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, SemoFetus wrote:

> >Mark, I seem to remember in one of the MT books (3 boxed set) that Norris
> >was appointed Arch Duke by Strephon prior to the assasination.

snipo

> 
> Yes, IIRC, it was detailed in the Regency sourcebook.  I think that Norris
> knew that Strephon was planning on appointing him Archduke anyway, so he took
> the ball and ran with it knowing that the Marches needed a strong (and legit)
> leader.
> 
> Semo

It's also detailed in Survival Margin, in an excerpt from Norris'
personal journal. That excerpt also says that this wasn't the first time
Norris had used a blank Imperial Warrant in this fashion...

" I commemorated Strephon's death today by taking his name in vain, and
tomorrow I will appear in public and lie, using his name again. Therefore
my first act as Archduke will be to confidentially issue myself a full and
complete pardon. Or not.

	It was a strange sensation. I've done it before, of course, using
the warrant in Strephon's name to dispose of that buffon Santanocheev.."

SM, p10

Of course it could have been both: 

Rebellion Sourcebook, p56 says: "..one of Strephon's last official acts
was to elevate Norris to the vacant position of Archduke of Deneb..." 

But Norris had no way of knowing that once Strephon had been assasinated;
the official proclamation was probably sitting on some bureaucrats desk
when the chaos of the rebellion broke out.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 18:28:32 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: 101 Books contact.

Who is the contact for the 101 books?  Is it CORE?  If so, is there a webpage
listing the books?  I was on Core's website earlier and could find no info at
all.

Can anyone help?

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu,  5 Mar 98 00:06:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Solomani & Vargr alike?

    I was thinking about the Vargr this morning, in the shower no less, and the
comment made in both V&V and the AM on them about how their society is so
chaotic that their own historical records are fairly much a joke.  About the
comment that the Vargr must view Human societies as these monlithic ever
forward creeping structures...  And as the mind wandered making connection I
suddenly thought that the Solomani must apear to many of the other species and
societies in Known Space to be slightly less chaotic Vargr!
    Think about it.  The Vilani have managed to mantain a continuous culture
and social organization since pretty much about the time they invented writing.
The Zhodani are fairly much the same, as are the K'kree, the Hivers, even the
Aslan can maintain that they have a social and cultural continuity that is
unbroken.  Yet the Terrans, and their successors the Solomani, appear to be
constantly changing Everything in a historical sense.
    The Terrans have utterly spotty records of their early history, in fact
they had to invent a science to go back and piece together the fragments that
managed to survive!  Then there's that bit with the European Dark Ages, the
African and native American "forgetfullness" in leaving behind written records.
The distressing Imperial Chinese propensity to rewrite history to justify
current trends.  And look at the one organization that does last for millenia,
the Christians have this terrible habit of burning and destroying priceless
historical and other records to justify illogical bits of their belief system.
    Then they get into to space and the first of their governments to achieve
the most "Firsts" (Soviets) disappears with a few decades of doing them!  And
the whole sorry story keeps going on.  They roar out to beat up and destroy the
Zira Sirka, only to replace it with an Empire that barely manages to survive
four hundred years before collapsing!

    With all this in mind, I suspect that the Solomani are looked apon as only
slightly less chaotic than the Vargr by everyone else.  Thoughts?

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:43:04 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: What I've seen Part II

Douglas E. Berry wrote (in response to others):
>>>Loren *has* been hanging around SJG now, hasn't he?  I wonder how much he
>>>has *seen*...
>>
>>Among other things, the Reverend Ivan Stang. 
>
>More and more, I'm getting the feeling the Steve Jackson is Yaskodray, and
>the door to SJG is a portal to his pocket universe...

You know, everything seemed a little strange until the second day. Steve
invited me into his office, and then he had me sit down in this funny chair
and put this icky grey thing on my neck. Since then, everything has been
absolutely wonderful, and the stuff that seemed weird at first (the incubators
in the basement, the unmarked trucks coming and going at odd hours, the funny
smells from the warehouse) now make perfect sense.

Loren Wiseman
   SJ Games Emigre
   GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:51:30 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

actually, it's BOTH that are left out, though the X boat is a book 2 design;
not a high guard one. Their is no room in the engine compartment for a power
plant and a manuever drive as well as a Jump 4 drive. This probably explains
the 3 day post jump life support (as opposed to 4 weeks (minimum) with a power
plant). I personally think 3 days is an unsafe margin. I guess the IISS has no
pilot's union.  :-)

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 00:36:08 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Imperial Lines

Sanders schrieb:
> 
> At 04:47 PM 3/3/98 +0000, you wrote:
> >
> >Jim Kundert (aka GypsyComet) wrote:
> >>appeared. There is no official listing, just a dot map and seven named
> >>worlds pulled from CT adventures.  See the sadly defunct Imperiallines
> >>#1 for the article.
Ah, yes, imperiallines... i was a subscriber as well... pity that...
> Yes - Issue #2 was published, but combined issue #3-4 never came out.
> However, I do have a proof copies of both of these, and will send along
> photocpies of them in my next package.
Gee, any chance of sending me some copies as well?
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
*Volker A. Greimann...Am Weidengraben 86, C6...54296 Trier*
********http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061*********
****grei5001@uni-trier.de* or try * greimann@geocities.com****
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 18:08:55 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: TAS/JTAS

Loren Wiseman wrote:

>Were you aware that we (GDW) were once contacted by the terrestrial Traveler's
>Aid Society? About the JTAS. Something about our not using it for legal
>reasons... : )
>
>The phone call came three weeks after we got the papers back for the trademark
>registration. I told the guy to do a PTO search and get back to me. Never
>heard from them again.

Well, I can see why they were irked.  The _Travelers_ Aid Society has been
around, under that name, since the 1860s; I can understand why they'd feel
a bit possessive over it, and maybe irked about (as they might view it)
some of those geeky D&D people publishing a fanzine using their name.  Or
almost their name -- Travelers vs. Travellers', yes? <G>

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 17:14:18 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 1

Matt McLaughlin <mkm@umr.edu> sez,

>This is some _great_ stuff!  Thanks, Glenn!
>
>> "VistaFlex" holospecs - 12              Cr400-3000
>> "VistaFlex" holospecs combine the style and features of Zoetec's line of
>> "ViewShades" smartglasses with the best TL 12 holovid display technology.
>> The VistaFlex line offers a profusion of fashionable designs and a range of
>> new capabilities.
> 
>So, at what TL do these become surgical implants? ;-)

Zoetec Labs are said to be working on TL 12 sensory input jacks, and TL 13
neuromotor interface jacks. With plans for a non-invasive TL 14 neural
induction interface patch.

Thanks,

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 98 03:41 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: CD ROM release and possible MAC problem (fwd)

Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:

> I think, however, that it supports only the lowest of the ISO9660 format
> levels (8+3).

Moin SD Mooney,

> I know Toast normal limits you to 8 levels of directories (unless you
> manually over-ride it), and IIRC it also truncates names to 8+3..

	for mapping 8+3 to long filenames CDs have a RockRidge extension.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #243
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G	ts,r @l.!I ve q
P(sti  ncg IG/Mm
clnd thTraveller-digest       Thursday, March 5 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 245



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Xboats and routes
re: General Quarters Procedure
Re: General Quarters Procedure
Re: Xboats and routes
one more thing for general quarters.
Re: Possible NPC
Re: Starship expenses
Re: Why are X-Boats only Jump-4? TML #243
re: General Quarters
Re: General Quarters Procedure
Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies
Re: Starship expenses
Re: General Quarters Procedure
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: General Quarters
X-boats and secret couriers
Re: Starship expenses
Re: Harold Hale!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 16:46:33 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

Regards to the powerplant issue...

  While a Jumpboat actually did get past the editors without a powerplant,
HG does specifically state that you need a powerplant.  I too recall that
the powerplant was missing, and was able to find the design regarding the
lack <Grin>.  The only thing I can say is "oh wellllllll" <grin>.

  Can anyone remember where the reference is regards to how much energy one
can find in a storage device for CT ships?  I recall that in general there
was supposed to be something like 1d6 days of power available once a
Powerplant went down.  However, this may have been a "house rule" rather
than a real rule.

  Also  on the note of house rules...

  Can anyone tell me why HG chose to make jump drives cost 3.0 (or is it
4?) Mcr despite the average costs of jump drives in BOOK 2 of the classic
set seeminly pegging them at half that price?  Currently, I am using the
idea of making those drives 1/2 the cost for designs.  While this won't
affect ship costs for the larger ships all that much, it will affect the
"commercial" costs for things such as Small traders and such.

  Well, work calls for me to leave now...

      Hal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:41:21 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: General Quarters Procedure

>c) Screens powered up.
Screens are undetectable.

>any others?
Ships in general operations probably run all their waste-heat radiators at
moderate temperatures. In combat it makes more sense to run a few radiators
at much higher temperatures (which strains the radiators but reduces 
detection probability.) So a military ship will divert all waste heat to a
few radiators - and, if it has any idea where the enemy might be coming
from, it'll "roll to mask radiators" - turning so those face away from the
enemy. Ships with advanced masking are also able to cool the metal of their
hulls down to reduce their thermal signature still further, so they'll 
start cooling the hull down.

>4) Weapon access ports opened
If you're very worried about stealth you might keep these closed until the
last minute. 

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:42:21 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: General Quarters Procedure

>I'm working on trying to "flesh out" some aspects of the Traveller
>universe - and I was wondering what a military's general quarters (Battle
>Stations, Red Alert, etc..) would be on a Traveller warship...
>
>Things that I came up with:

[snip]

>Ones I can't decide on:
>a) Crew into vacc suits - at higher TLs, this one is easy, because vacc
>suits are so light and can be worn as duty uniforms. But at the low TLs,
>would the time necessary and the bulkiness be a deterent? Do sailors in the
>modern navy don life jackets during gerneal quarters?
>b) Decompress the ship. This is rather radical, I admit...but it could
>prevent some chaos that might ensue during an explosive decompression. Of
>course, this requires (a) to be enacted :)

a) and b) are definite on waships.  On merchants your milage may vary
(ymmv) but every player group I have run has done this.

Explosive decompression can have severe effects on stuff in general, as
well as the sturctural integrity of a ship.  Of course, if you're at that
point your probably in Troube anyway...

Also remember that in most combat systems Traveller has had, a combat round
in space is a long time, like 30 minutes, and even disregarding that, most
systems allow ships to know "someone" is "out there" well before the lasers
start flying.  Hence the time factor is pretty irrelevant.

>c) Screens powered up. If screens can be detected with PEMS, I would say
>they would be left off to keep stealth characteristics. But if they are
>undetectable, then it might be a good idea.

No opinion on this. (Suprise!)

>d) Gravity normalized to 0G. Again, this seems radical - but could it be
>done to prevent the disorientation that may occur if gravity is suddenly
>lost?

I hadn't thought about this one either.  I guess its just as good an idea
as (b).  With everyone strapped in there's no effect on crew performance,
but it will quickly reveal anything that isn't strapped down properly, and
probably make a mess of everyone's cabins too.

OTOH, it will make damage control a problem, since crew required to move
around will need to be zero-G qualified, but this is a minor issue.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 16:49:55 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

Hello List

One of the problems (IMHO) is that the rules for HG were not really
compatable with BOOK 2 rules.  Try making a Jump 2, Manuever 1 200 ton far
trader using the Rules for HG...

  All in all, the excessive fuel required for the powerplants in Book 2 as
compared with HG makes a difference in a big way.

     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:46:46 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: one more thing for general quarters.

>13) All bulkheads closed.

14) Close the windows. (A 1-m square window with dim roomlight behind it is
brighter than all the reflected sunlight off a military black scout.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 16:15:31 -0500
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Possible NPC

>>At the Age of 45 You Question Your Sexual Lifestyle, Role, or Orientation
>>At the Age of 46 You Question Your Sexual Lifestyle, Role, or Orientation
>>At the Age of 47 You Are Publicly Accused with a Crime
>>
>>I think this is probably one of the potentially "fun" programs for Trav
>yet!
>>It's fun just to see how the character comes out and what sort of "history"
>>it fits to him/her.
>>
>>Mike Peters
>>Letterworks@CITNET.com
>
>
>I LIKE IT! If you need beta testers count me in as a volunteer...
>Thom

The program is available on the Pan-Imperia webpage (see address
below) for download. Because I'm just doing this for the fun of it and
can't guarantee when a bug-free (as much as software gets) version
will ever be available (as Real Life(tm) gets Real Busy quite often);
*everyone* who downloads it is automatically a beta tester <g>.


**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 14:02:34 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

At 02:02 PM 3/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Paul Zumstein wrote:
>> I am sure this amount is a generality.  My uninformed guess at what the
>> main costs could be are:
>>
>> food
>> life support recharging, maintenance, filters, etc.
>> passenger area cleanup and sterilization
>Crew salaries
>Monthly payment and/or tax
>berthing fees
>fuel
>ship maintenance
>registration fees
>insurance

The original poster was looking for a justification for the high cost per
person every two weeks of life support.  2KCr/week is very, very high,
unless each passenger gets a quart jar of diamonds as a souvenir.

Given this desire, your suggestions of insurance is a good one for some of
the money, but I do not think this is large enough to cover the
astronomical figure.  In my universe, this is just not the case - life
support costs are pretty trivial compared to other fees.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 12:48:50 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Why are X-Boats only Jump-4? TML #243

At 01:30 PM 3/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Fellow TMLers:
>
>My reasoning behind Jump-4 X-boats...economics.  The Fourth and Fifth
>Frontier wars have eaten so deeply into the Imperial budget that the 3I
>cannot get out of debt.  Sounds like the present day US.

Only the Frontier Wars were minor blips on the Imperial scale.  They only
invloved one frontier sector and were over usually before the Imperial
Throne was notified there was a problem.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:20:22 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: General Quarters

Douglas Berry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Ones I can't decide on:
>a) Crew into vacc suits - at higher TLs, this one is easy, because vacc
>suits are so light and can be worn as duty uniforms. But at the low TLs,
>would the time necessary and the bulkiness be a deterent? Do sailors in the
>modern navy don life jackets during gerneal quarters?
>b) Decompress the ship. This is rather radical, I admit...but it could
>prevent some chaos that might ensue during an explosive decompression. Of
>course, this requires (a) to be enacted :)

This is a standard with me.  Why risk losing a critical system to a blown
piece of debris when you can minmize the [problem by sucking all the air
out.  Also eleiminates the chance of fires.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Partly for cinematic reasons, I don't have a suit up/decompress/zero G standard IMTU. Also, it fits most of the artwork from Traveller stuff showing ship crews in action.

We make up for it with compartmentalization, housekeeping discipline, emergency equipment close at hand, and lots and lots of Vacc suit drills.

Vacc Suit Drills: Considering the time duration of many "General Quarters" situations, it would be a major performance loss to have the crew in cumbersome vacc suits for six, eight, twelve hours. I have damage control parties suited up (or in Engineering Armor), but even they would have open faceplates. One of their first jobs would be to enter a breached section and grab the crewmen who couldn't get to their suits and had to hop in a rescue ball instead. Rescue balls, of course, will be in convenient compartments all over the place - one under each workstation chair (like lifejackets on a passenger airplane) would be a good place to start.

Compartmentalization - bulkheads and iris valves instead of partitions and privacy doors. Not everywhere, but around every area where people work during a General Quarters situation. This should serve to limit the atmosphere loss from a penetrating strike. Realize, as well, that with proper compartmentalization there won't be much of a problem with decompression: if you were close enough to the penetrating strike to lose air, you were probably close enough to get killed by it anyway. Also, design all ships so that there is more than one path of pressure-tight compartments between every critical area - Bridge to Sick Bay, Sick Bay to Engineering, Engineering to Main Avionics, etc. Yes, it makes the ship harder to defend when repelling boarders (a rare occurance), but it simplifies the work of Damage Control parties and should make the ship more battle-worthy.  Look at how (wet)Navy submarines handle this problem - you don't see US Navy Sub Crewmen on duty wearing SCUBA gear, do!
 you?

Housekeeping Discipline - there's a reason the Marine Drill Sergeant yelled at you to keep your area neat and clean. "Shipshape" is a term used, among other things, for an area where everything is properly put away. When things are locked up in sufficiently sturdy lockers, debris doesn't blow around during a hull breach incident. Or an inertial dampener failure. Or a bumpy ride from nearby meson blasts...

As for Zero-G, I think I agree with Douglas - these artificial gravity and inertial compensators must be very reliable, perhaps to the point that everything else would fail first. I recall, during the Solomani Rim War, an Azhanti High Lightning Cruiser was lost (Bard Echo? slips my mind...) - anyway, while the powerless, blasted hulk of the cruiser was spiralling downwards in a decaying orbit, Solomani Marines tried to board it for possible salvage. Even though the ship was in this hopeless state, the artificial gravity was still working just fine (ref: GDW's _Azhanti High Lightning_ game).


In sub-1000tn ships and civilian ships some different protocols apply. Some of these vessels will have only one pressure tight compartment, or have extensive multi-use pressure compartments. Some may have no inertial compensators at all. Many passengers may have never put on a Vacc suit before, much less be able to don one in an emergency. These vessels may well be forced to use protocols similar to those mentioned previously - Vacc suits, strapped in etc. Fightercraft and other small-craft gunboats will have Vacc (or G-?) suits as a matter of course anyway.

The _Space Shuttle Operators Manual_ had some interesting bits on damage control and emergency procedures - fire/smoke in the cabin, pressure loss, etc. Some of the emergency procedures seemed a little odd, though - the manual told you what to do if you crash-landed in the middle of the wilderness. Why do I get the feeling that if the Shuttle came down in the middle of the Australian Outback, there would still be people waiting for it?


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:24:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: General Quarters Procedure

On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Andrew Akins wrote:

> Ones I can't decide on:
> a) Crew into vacc suits - at higher TLs, this one is easy, because vacc
> suits are so light and can be worn as duty uniforms. But at the low TLs,
> would the time necessary and the bulkiness be a deterent? Do sailors in the
> modern navy don life jackets during gerneal quarters?

I don't know, but our friendly Navy veterans on the list would.

> b) Decompress the ship. This is rather radical, I admit...but it could
> prevent some chaos that might ensue during an explosive decompression. Of
> course, this requires (a) to be enacted :)

Both of these are canon military procedure.  They were first described in
CT Book 2, (under "Procedures", IIRC), but I don't remember if they made
it into TTB (which is strage, because I own TTB but not Book 2).  I also
don't know if they got into the SOM.  But they do come straight from The
Man Himself.

It follows that anyone with common sense would emulate the behavior of
military personnel when in a combat situation. 

It's a perfectly logical procedure.  A beam could pass right thorugh the
compartment and not completely disable it if the compartment is in vacuum,
but with decompression, the compartment is history.


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:31:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: T4.1 rules inconsistencies

On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Sethkimmel wrote:

> Dear Sir;
> 
> I am sorry to pester you, but I have a question. What is the chances that you
> will allow someone (or better yet, do it yourself), to scan any sell on a CD,
> ALL of the old CT products. I still think that the market is there. I could
> see you getting 50-100$, or maybe even more. I know I have spent at least that
> amount on the CT stuff I do have. I use it as backround data for T4.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Seth C. Kimmel
> 
> PS, good luck with the IG reorganization (and publishing T4.1 - I eagerly
> await it)
> 

Seth, (and everyone else who is interested):

Marc and many other authors have already given their OK for a CD
containing out of print Traveller material, and a CD project _is_ 
underway.

It's _always_ in need of proofreaders...so if you have old stuff and can
fix .rtf files send email to Bryan Borich who is heading the project at:
Kagekiha@aol.com

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 14:39:46 PST
From: "Paul Zumstein" <pzumstein@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

>From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
>To: traveller@mpgn.com
>Subject: Re: Starship expenses
>Reply-To: traveller@mpgn.com
>
>On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Paul Zumstein wrote:
>> I am sure this amount is a generality.  My uninformed guess at what 
the
>> main costs could be are:
>>
>> food
>> life support recharging, maintenance, filters, etc.
>> passenger area cleanup and sterilization
>Crew salaries
>Monthly payment and/or tax
>berthing fees
>fuel
>ship maintenance
>registration fees
>insurance
>
>Just to name a few other costs...
>

Those costs would be covered by the passage and freight income.  We're 
just trying to isolate what is covered in the 2000cr/person/jump fee.

PZ


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:55:09 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: General Quarters Procedure

In a message dated 3/5/98 13:09:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, dberry@hooked.net
writes:

<< ) All crews strapped into seats in case of gravity loss
 
 Damage Control parties would have to be exempt to this, since by nature
 they have to be able to move about freely.
  >>
I have always seen DC crews (and other crewmen, for that matter) using powered
and motorized chairs whenever possible (esp under high uncompensated accel)
ala "The Mote in God's Eye".  Many DC tasks could be performed from the
comfortable chairs w/out the risk of having to move around under high variable
direction accel.

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 23:00:18 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

The T4 version of Fire, Fusion & Steel has some nice bits about food 
and life support.

Standard life support costs Cr 5,600 per 100T of ship and has (my 
estimate) a running cost of Cr4,200 per two weeks [p78 and Table 
208 on p111]

Standard Food Supply costs 819 cr per person and is for two weeks food 
plus one weeks emergency rations [Table 211 on p111].

If we assume an "average" shp that PCs will be using, crew + passengers 
is around 1 per 25 T.

Thus, we have 1050 cr life support + 819 Cr food = 1869 Cr for two 
weeks ... pretty close to the summary value of Cr 2000.

[handwave = on]

Imperial law requires you to carry two weeks food + one weeks emergency 
rations - to allow for delays, jumping in a long way from the 
destination and "emergencies".  Due to the shelf life of normal food, 
you are assumed to throw away any that is not consumed.  Although 
e-rations have a long shelf life (TL years), only the most 
cost-concious captains (or stewards on the make) would fail to keep the 
e-rations up to date at every opportunity.

Similarly, to allow a safety buffer, the life support filters should be 
replaced after each trip ... you could run with half-used filters, but 
if anything went wrong, the Imperial inspector would be most 
displeased!

[handwave = off]

OK, we can reasonable reproduce the Cr 2000 life support cots, byt FFS 
gives us cheaper alternatives.  If we install type IV (extended) life 
support, it costs us a little on the ship's purchase but saves on 
long-term running costs:

Type IV = Cr 22,400 per 100 T of ship but lasts forever and uses up 
just under 1 T of cargo space.  So with type IV life support you save 
4,200 Cr per trip and lose 1 T of cargo profit ... is that Cr 1,000 or 
Cr 4,200 for an average speculative cargo?  I'll let you choose!

If we scrimp on food and reply our e-rations once per year we can save 
210 Cr/trip.  If we only carry less fresh food and more e-ratios we can 
get our food costs down to 252 Cr per person (one week only).

So the minimum life support cost per person is
252 cr (food)
0.25 T of cargo space
12 cr (annula replacement of 2 weeks of e-rations)

total = 264 Cr + 0.25 T of cargo space.

Of course, you can save even more by using lower quality food:

meagre (airline food):
75 cr + 0.25 T of cargo

normal (frozen microwave meals - minimum quality of middle passage)
117 cr + 0.25T of cargo


If you want to use the exra detail in FFS, you can run your ship for a 
lot less money, or you can follow Imperial regs and spend Cr 2,000 per 
person per trip (and let the PC steward figure out his "take" for 
cooking the books instead of the food!) 


Note: where did I get that 4,200 Cr/two weeks running cost from?  p78 
of FFS says that you can extend the duration of type III life support 
by two weeks for 75% of the installed cost - I take this to be the cost 
of extra filters, scrubbing chemicals, oxygen, etc and therefore 
represents the running cost.


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:00:26 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: General Quarters

In a message dated 3/5/98 14:32:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
smithw@hartwick.edu writes:

<< Look at how (wet)Navy submarines handle this problem - you don't see US
Navy Sub Crewmen on duty wearing SCUBA gear, do!
  you? >>

If there are any ex or current Naval types here on the list, what are the US
Navy steaming conditions?  I seem to recall there being four Conditions...but
my military experience was on land, not at sea...

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:55:24 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: X-boats and secret couriers

Stephen Johnson writes:
>Once the [X-boat] system was in place it doubtless took decades if not
>centuries to put in place and then refine for maximum efficency.  That
>also means there was an Enormous investment in current equipment even
>as the Imperium's TL rose to allow J-5 and J-6 respectively.

I have no real problem with the Imperium retaining the jump-4 X-boat
network once it was in place, since I can imagine the enormous lobbying
the X-boat manufacturers must have done to keep it, but it is not such
an obvious thing. It's true that no one would scrap a brand new jump-4
X-boat and buy a jump-5 instead just because jump-5 boats have just
become possible. But at any given time some 2.5% of the X-boats are 
about to be replaced and in another 40 years all of them will have been
up for replacements. So you could start by adding a few jump-5 legs
where the astrography makes it efficient. Say you have two important
worlds 10 parsecs away. The present system handles that by three X-boats
that all jump short. Now you can replace them with two jump-5 boats and
shift the jump-4 boats to someplace else. You'd propably keep buying
new jump-4 boats for legs that are exactly 4 parsecs long (Frankly, IMTU
short legs are handled by jump-1, -2, and -3 Xboats; I don't believe that
the saving from standardization outweighs the added cost of the ship for
the short legs, but that by the way), but in a century or so the network
could easily have been improved to the point where the major spokes were
jump-5. The same process could have been employed when jump-6 became
available.

However, it is established canon that it wasn't, and I don't think that's
a problem. As I said, that's a political decision, and who ever said a
political decision had to make sense?

>     All that said, I forget the source (TNS??) but there were plans afoot
>in the CT universe to actually start the upgrade to J-6 using drop fuel
>tanks for the couriers.

(A suggestion: Let's use the word X-boat for the maneuver-less boats that
need tenders and use courier for independent starships.)

Yes, that was in the TNS bulletin about drop tanks, c. 1105. Note that
there is a slight continuity problem there: Since the ship design system
was changed from CT (and MT? I forget) it is now possible to have a 100 T
jump-6 ship, which actually makes two jump-6 X-boats cheaper than three
jump-4 boats...

Anyway, one of the two big problems with the "Norris got the news before
everybody else" notion is that it is extremely unlikely that there wouldn't
be more than the two jump-6 networks that we already know of (Naval and
Imperiallines) (Incidentally, those two networks alone makes at least seven
people other than Norris that would have the news, the sector dukes for
Deneb, Trojan Reach and Reft (and wasn't Duchess Delphine the sector duke
of Spinward Marches?) and the sector admirals for the four sectors. Plus
whatever code clerks and flag captains and flag lieutenants and secretaries
and confidential advisers that learned of it along the way).

Information is valuable, especially prior information. Just imagine how
useful it would be for a megacorporation to have information a few months
in advance of everybody else. Then imagine how big a DISadvantage it would
be for a megacorporation NOT to have such information when some other
megacorporation did. To me that spells out a minimum of 14 more jump-6
networks (Or possibly one shared one). Oh, not nearly as extensive as the
X-boat network, but I bet the Regional managers for Deneb and the Spinward
Marches would have a courier link to Capital. That makes at least 28 more
people who would know (42 or 56 if Trojan Reach and Reft have separate
regional managers) ...plus whatever people they told. We're getting into
the hundreds of people now. Just how likely is it that none of them would
leak it to the press? (For that matter, imagine how valuable a courier link
would be to a sector-wide news network; the odds are that there is at least
one such). How likely is it that Norris would assume that none of these
people would leak it?

Then there are the Domain nobles who happen to be on Capital when the
balloon goes up. They get stuck there for some days because the port is
closed, and they lose additional days refuelling on the way back, but
any of them who have jump-6 yachts will still outrun the X-boat network.

But the second problem is the clincher: Even if Norris was the only one
to get the advance warning, he would know that the official news would
get there eventually, and people can count. Anyone who knew of the
secret network or of the navy couriers would be able to count back and
KNOW that Norris' elevation had been announced after HE got the news of
the assasination.

Actually, the second problem may serve to explain the first. There were
propably a lot who at least suspected that Norris' elevation was bogus,
but they either didn't want to or didn't dare to challenge him. And
Norris was canny enough to know that no one would dare to, or at least
that it was a good bet, so he went ahead and did it despite knowing
full well that a lot of people would suspect. So his big, dark secret
is really not such a secret at all, but people pretend that it is.

Joe Pettit writes:
>I was wondering how they dealt with scheduling.  Since it takes a variable
>amount of time to jump (6-8 days), you can't be sure when the next Xboat
>will arrive.  If you take off too early, the incoming message has to wait
>because the outgoing xboat has already left. This gets even more complicated
>at multi-directional nodes, where you have 3 or more jump routes.
>
>One solution to the scheduling problem is jumping every 9 or 10 days

Another is to have 8-10 X-boats for each leg, at least on the major spokes.
That would allow for daily jumps, with an occasional day missed when the
jump durations combine to mess up the schedule, but that would only
happen rarely. I can't off-hand recall that it is explicitly stated
anywhere that the X-boat service is weekly. Can anybody supply such a
reference?

>Wouldn't drop tanks become a travel hazard since you're using the same route
>repeatedly?

You'd have a shuttle fetch back the used drop tanks for reuse. They are
easily worth the cost.
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 16:19:56 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

At 02:02 pm 3/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 02:02 PM 3/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Paul Zumstein wrote:
>>> I am sure this amount is a generality.  My uninformed guess at
what the
>>> main costs could be are:
>>>
>>> food
>>> life support recharging, maintenance, filters, etc.
>>> passenger area cleanup and sterilization
>>Crew salaries
>>Monthly payment and/or tax
>>berthing fees
>>fuel
>>ship maintenance
>>registration fees
>>insurance
>
>The original poster was looking for a justification for the high cost per
>person every two weeks of life support.  2KCr/week is very, very high,
>unless each passenger gets a quart jar of diamonds as a souvenir.


	Furthermore, all of the above expenses, with the exception of
registration and insurance, are already paid separately. The 2kCr per
week is stated as life support, etc. for that passenger. Filters,
oxygen, food, cleaning, etc.  And 2kCr is probably fairly high. FF&S2
gives more specific details about food requirements, but I don't
believe it addresses the cost of other consumables.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:18:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Harold Hale!

In my continuing effort to become the only subject on this list, SD Mooney
writes:

>Can you post me a copy of the table you wrote for FFS2 for bunking up
>passengers/crew?

   Certainly!

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Sat around this past weekend watching old WW II naval movies and came up
with some additions to the accomodations table.  While they are intended for
ships of the Terran Confederation, they could theoretically be used in other
eras (M:1200 in particular where crew are rather large--I envision the Terra
Republic using them in their ship designs).  Basic staterooms, etc. are
included for comparison:

TERRAN CONFEDERATION ACCOMODATIONS

                    MW      Vol. (kl or m3)      Mass      MCr
Bunk                --           14.0            0.5       0.005
(sleeps 1)
Low Berth          0.001         14.0            1.0       0.05
(cold sleep 1)
Emergency Low      0.002         28.0            2.0       0.1
(cold sleep 1-4)      
Small Stateroom    0.0005        28.0            2.0       0.04
(sleeps 1-2)
Large Stateroom    0.001         56.0            4.0       0.1
(sleeps 1-4)
Small Crew Bay*    0.002         70.0            5.0       0.14
(sleeps 8)
Large Crew Bay*    0.004        140.0           10.0       0.24
(sleeps 16)

* - Intended only for use on large ships which have adequate recreation
facilities such as gyms, lounges, multipurpose rooms, etc.  Crew bays
contain bunks which are stacked two high.

   Naturally they are cross-platform (can be used with "T4", TNE, etc.).

   Let me know what you think...

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #245
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Thursday, March 5 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 246



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Windows CE Question
[GK...GK   is anyone receiving?  GK...GK]
Re:  Traveller-digest V1998 #244
re: X-boats and secret couriers
Re: GURPS: Traveller
Re: TAS/JTAS
Re: Solomani & Vargr alike?
General Quarters
Re: Starship Expenses
Acceleration limits
re: General Quarters
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Possible NPC (longish)
Re: General Quarters Procedure
Re: Windows CE Question
Re: Windows CE Question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 18:54:31 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Windows CE Question

I'm finally gong over to teh Dark Side and joining the Evil Empire. $180
($120 US) was too good a deal to pass up on for a palmtop running Windows
CE, especially with the Newton being toasted before I could afford one.

That said, what is the relationship between Windows 95/NT/CE?  

Specifically, what Traveller software can I get that will run on this
little machine?

If I write Windows 95 software, will it run on CE?  If so, I will have a
very simple version of Metator running immediately (OK, 2 weeks) so I can
use it during a game.  Infini-V will follow more slowly (ie. still
planning on the April release).

I currently have CodeWarrior, which claims to write Windows 95/NT
software. I haven't confirmed this yet, and plan on spending no money on
manuals, so may need a few mentors (hint hint).  If I need a different
package to program for CE,what am I looking for and can I get one for free
anywhere?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 16:01:50 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: [GK...GK   is anyone receiving?  GK...GK]

Hmmm...

How interesting.  I'm not getting any TML traffic on my 'home' account (which
I can and do monitor from work), but I _am_ receiving the digests for today at
work...

Soooo...the 64 KCr question will be a) is anyone receiving?  and b) will this
message show up in the next digest?

douglas

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:31:20 EST
From: FKiesche <FKiesche@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Traveller-digest V1998 #244

Greetings All:

Could whoever sent the abortion known as WINMAIL.DAT included in Traveller-
digest V1998#244 please turn that feature off?

I got a blank e-mail that managed to crash my downloader when I tried to get
my mail.

Sigh.

Fred Kiesche
(FKiesche@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:08:17 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: X-boats and secret couriers

>Anyway, one of the two big problems with the "Norris got the news before
>everybody else" notion is that it is extremely unlikely that there wouldn't
>be more than the two jump-6 networks that we already know of (Naval and
>Imperiallines)

>Then there are the Domain nobles who happen to be on Capital when the
>balloon goes up. They get stuck there for some days because the port is
>closed, and they lose additional days refuelling on the way back, but
>any of them who have jump-6 yachts will still outrun the X-boat network.

Remember that x-boats jump precisely once per week, since data is almost
instantly relayed to the next waiting boat, for a travel rate of 0.6
parsecs per day. A jump-6 boat can only spend two days per jump refuelling
to keep up with this - which is barely adequate unless you've made initial
arrangements all along the route, and also gets pretty tiring for the crew
very quickly. Most jump-6 yachts will arrive later than the jump-4 xboat
news, even along major routes. 

Note also that you need a *lot* of ships to maintain something competetive
with the x-boat network (let alone the secret jump-6 network); saving those
1-3 days of refuelling time makes a big difference in travel time for news.
An x-boat style system needs perhaps ~10 ships per system on the network
to keep delays down to 1 day per system or less and allow for refuelling and
maintenance. A network with maneuver-capable ships that refuell and jump
requires less, obviously, but begins to suffer from the issue of how much
time it takes to refuel. 

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 98 22:12:29 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller

On 03/04/98 at 03:03 PM,  Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> said:

>I do not yet know into which timeline my group will get, as we still have
>1105, i.e. two years before the 5th frontier war. I even think of letting
>them visit BOTH via an ancient time portal ... but this is only an idea to
>work out. There would be much alternatives to prevent the assassination.
>The ancient artifact of the Zhodani Consulate (The one showing the Core
>Missions) could also work. There are much possibilities to unfold the
>future.

I'm hoping that Loren *doesn't* explain exactly what happened and why...

>Whatever you want to play instead, it's your decision as a master.

...and that's why! ;->

Just about *anything* could have happened. 

1.  It was a Ine Givar hit.

2.  Lady Isis found out what daddy was up to and took exception to her
"good friend Gen" (Iphegenia) being killed.

3.  It was a one in a million accident, hit a fractional c rock...really!

4.  It was a Hiver manipulation.

5.  It was a Templar manipulation.

Whatever you want. ;->


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 00:38:58 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: TAS/JTAS

Kenji Schwarz wrote:

> Loren Wiseman wrote:
>
> >Were you aware that we (GDW) were once contacted by the terrestrial Traveler's
> >Aid Society? About the JTAS. Something about our not using it for legal
> >reasons... : )
> >
> >The phone call came three weeks after we got the papers back for the trademark
> >registration. I told the guy to do a PTO search and get back to me. Never
> >heard from them again.
>
> Well, I can see why they were irked.  The _Travelers_ Aid Society has been
> around, under that name, since the 1860s; I can understand why they'd feel
> a bit possessive over it, and maybe irked about (as they might view it)
> some of those geeky D&D people publishing a fanzine using their name.  Or
> almost their name -- Travelers vs. Travellers', yes? <G>

Thats hilarious!  They obviously didn't understand anything about trademark law.
Now if FFE, GDW, etc., were to try to sell such products to those in the market for
Traveler's Aid Society, there might be an issue.  But I'm pretty sure that flights
of the imagination have nothing to do with flights of the
heavier-than-air-powered-craft sort.  Of course, I could be wrong.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:24:34 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Solomani & Vargr alike?

>     With all this in mind, I suspect that the Solomani are looked apon as
only
> slightly less chaotic than the Vargr by everyone else.  Thoughts?

Or maybe the Solomani are thought to be more stable than the Vargr, but not
much?

All in all, its a great idea.  Makes sense.  Works.  Just one fault, with
the power that the Solomani have would they not just shoot someone for
saying this?

> Stephen

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this puppy.
We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:18:11 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: General Quarters

Clark Crawford wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It's a perfectly logical procedure.  A beam could pass right thorugh the
compartment and not completely disable it if the compartment is in vacuum,
but with decompression, the compartment is history.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Depending on the size of the compartment, of course - the blast/heat/slag/etc of a beam coming through the bulkhead would kill everyone in a small bridge compartment, but wouldn't affect most of a large cargo bay compartment.

Unless your hull was really, really thin - and I've seen some arguments (from the Cyberpunk 2020 role playing game's space supplements) that say go all the way one way or the other - either have a hull several meters thick, or have one you could almost put your hand through. It seems medium-thickness hulls have this tendency to turn harmless cosmic rays into slightly less-than harmless radiations.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:27:50 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

Hello Folks,

> Standard life support costs Cr 5,600 per 100T of ship and has (my 
> estimate) a running cost of Cr4,200 per two weeks [p78 and Table 
> 208 on p111]
> 
> Standard Food Supply costs 819 cr per person and is for two weeks food 
> plus one weeks emergency rations [Table 211 on p111].

If you are including power costs and maintenance costs, those numbers are
included in your maintenance rules.  Power is essentially free, and the
payment for that power is subsumed in the monthly mortgage costs (ie, you
are paying for th initial capital investment via your mortgage).

  
> If we assume an "average" shp that PCs will be using, crew + passengers 
> is around 1 per 25 T.
> 
> Thus, we have 1050 cr life support + 819 Cr food = 1869 Cr for two 
> weeks ... pretty close to the summary value of Cr 2000.

How did you get the 1050 value?  Also, assuming that 1 credit is worth
maybe 2.5 american dollars (was worth 2 dollars in 1994 according to Marc
Miller in THE TRAVELLER CHRONICLE 2 oct/nov/dec 1993, page 49), we get a
two week cost value of approximately $5,000.  I very seriously doubt that
food costs will be worth $2,048 for two weeks, when a month's grocery
bills today is worth about what, maybe $400 for a family of 3 or 4?

  Ok, let's look at what goes into life support.  If anyone has ideas of
what should be on this list, feel free to add to it:

Filters for air
Filters for water
Possibly fuel for heat sources
replacement parts for crucial components such as fans and such (but this
   rightfully belongs in the maintenance section...)
Food: fresh and frozen along with vacuum sealed packages.
Water
Consumables such as toiletries
Consumables such as toliet paper
If using "airline prepackaged food trays" maybe the price for food would
   be higher...
I am drawing a blank on anythings else...

  I suspect that the costs should not be at the 2000 credits mark, but
related to the cost of passengers and lifestyle maintenance.  In other
words, High passage ticket holders might expect somewhat better food,
along with the service... and people who have to live on the ship
constantly would need some "luxeries" to help with their lifestyles.  It
is one thing that I have noted about personality types for spacers that
either they want to stretch their legs after being cooped up in what would
be a "bedroom" by todays standard for at least 168 hours, or be the type
that says "I like the comfort of having walls I can touch and not see the
horizon".


> [handwave = on]
> 
> Imperial law requires you to carry two weeks food + one weeks emergency 
> rations - to allow for delays, jumping in a long way from the 
> destination and "emergencies".  Due to the shelf life of normal food, 
> you are assumed to throw away any that is not consumed.  Although 
> e-rations have a long shelf life (TL years), only the most 
> cost-concious captains (or stewards on the make) would fail to keep the 
> e-rations up to date at every opportunity.

Theoretically, the emergency rats should be hoarded until approximately 1
week of their expiration date.  Thus, if there was only one person to
survive a ship crash, and there was enough rations for 20 weeks - ie
originally the ship carried rations for 10 people for 2 weeks, then the
max before expiration date that anyone needs for those rations is 20
weeks.  I seriously doubt that exchanging emergency rats would be worth
considering as a major cost in "upkeep".


> 
> Similarly, to allow a safety buffer, the life support filters should be 
> replaced after each trip ... you could run with half-used filters, but 
> if anything went wrong, the Imperial inspector would be most 
> displeased!

> [handwave = off]
> 
> OK, we can reasonable reproduce the Cr 2000 life support cots, byt FFS 
> gives us cheaper alternatives.  If we install type IV (extended) life 
> support, it costs us a little on the ship's purchase but saves on 
> long-term running costs:
> 
> Type IV = Cr 22,400 per 100 T of ship but lasts forever and uses up 
> just under 1 T of cargo space.  So with type IV life support you save 
> 4,200 Cr per trip and lose 1 T of cargo profit ... is that Cr 1,000 or 
> Cr 4,200 for an average speculative cargo?  I'll let you choose!
> 
> If we scrimp on food and reply our e-rations once per year we can save 
> 210 Cr/trip.  If we only carry less fresh food and more e-ratios we can 
> get our food costs down to 252 Cr per person (one week only).
> 
> So the minimum life support cost per person is
> 252 cr (food)
> 0.25 T of cargo space
> 12 cr (annula replacement of 2 weeks of e-rations)
> 
> total = 264 Cr + 0.25 T of cargo space.
> 
> Of course, you can save even more by using lower quality food:
> 
> meagre (airline food):
> 75 cr + 0.25 T of cargo
> 
> normal (frozen microwave meals - minimum quality of middle passage)
> 117 cr + 0.25T of cargo
> 
> 
> If you want to use the exra detail in FFS, you can run your ship for a 
> lot less money, or you can follow Imperial regs and spend Cr 2,000 per 
> person per trip (and let the PC steward figure out his "take" for 
> cooking the books instead of the food!) 
> 
> 
> Note: where did I get that 4,200 Cr/two weeks running cost from?  p78 
> of FFS says that you can extend the duration of type III life support 
> by two weeks for 75% of the installed cost - I take this to be the cost 
> of extra filters, scrubbing chemicals, oxygen, etc and therefore 
> represents the running cost.
> 

I see what you did now.  Ok.  Question is: is that the extra cost for
extra capacity vie equiment, or via consumables?  I don't think oxygen is
going to be a factor in cost here.  What is to keep a ship from opening
it's ports and letting out the internal air, and taking in fresh?  What is
to keep compressors from taking native air and compressing it for the
ships "reserve" air in case of accidental decompression?  When you
evacuate the air for a hold, where does that air go to?  I think you get
my drift here.  Scrubbing chemicals might be expensive, that I don't know
- - which is what the original intent was of this post - what could possibly
cost close to $5000 American, for one week's habitation?  Even if we use
each credit equals $2 per, we end up with approximately $4000 per week's
worth of habitation, and that my friend, is approximately $500 per day!
Granted, living in open atmosphere is easier than in an enclosed
environment, but do you realize the implications here?  At $500 per day of
lifesupport costs, a protected environment such as a biobubble would be on
the same order of costs, and even at $100 per day, it would cost $36,500
per year to maintain a person in such an environment.  Thus, in Traveller,
people living on Airless worlds should be paying a minimum of $3500 per
week plus living expenses...


> 
> Simon
> 
> 

  In summation, I thing it would be best to assume a more moderate
approach to the costs (assuming you want to be realistic here).  A
standard cost of normal weekly expenses for a planet bound person, plus
maybe a fee equal to about 1% of the cost for life support that you
originally paid for the life support system.  Note, the 1% is ten times
the normal "maintenance" costs for ship systems as per classic rules...

  Also, can anyone tell me the answer to this?  On page 79, it states that
good meals cost 12 credits.  A full two weeks worth is 504 credits.  A
week's worth of emergency rations is 210 credits.  This totals to 714
credits... not 819 listed in the book.  Is this an errata that needs to be
addressed, or am I barking up the wrong tree?  Also, why is it 2 week's
worth of food?  Ship puts down on landing apron.  Crew find lodging in a
spacer hotel or stay on board ship.  Passengers leave.  Crew work at minor
maintenance and upon unloading cargo.  Crew take liberty and/or look for
new cargo etc...  Captain decides where his next port of call is.  Files a
departure date, and tentative flight plan.  Crew then load their new cargo
on board, load new passengers, who don't embark until the last possible
minute.  Ship takes off, and reaches 100 planetary diameters - jumping
into jumpspace.  Ship then exits after the week, and then travels to the
planet of destination.
  How much time are we talking about here?  At most, what, 8 days?  That
means there will be some 6 days worth of meals not consumed...

  It is my contention that for a commercial concern, some of these
"figures" are not where I would expect them to be.  Perhaps my
expectations are off (which is why I am detailing my thoughts, for people
to spot the errors and point them out <Grin>), but unless some people can
come up with a good reason to maintain a 2 Kcr cost for lifesupport of
staterooms, I will be dropping it to at least half that.  Remember, the
two week turn around time for ship travel isn't time spent in space, it
includes time spent in port, time prepping for take offs, and time spent
landing at ports etc...

   Hal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:57:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Acceleration limits

The latest issue of Analog has the first part of a 2 part article on
medical problems and solutions in space. They give a reference to the
rocket sled tests in the 50s. This is the exact info we were debating a
few months back:

4g is the limit for *sustained* acceleration. They mention higher
levels being possible in acceleration tanks.

18 g is the limit for "muscular control" In other words, above 18 g,
forget being able to manipulate controls.

83g was the highest accel they put anyone thru.

But from the above, this means that for vehicles such as fighters, you
can run them at 4g above the g-comp essentially *indefinitely*! Ships
can only do this if there's no need for the crew to move *and* they are
taking the acceleration "lying down".

The 18g limit would mean that if you could afford the drive to do so, a
fighter could to occasional dodging manevuers at 18g above g-comp.

And the 83g limit would apply to things like escape pods or ejection
seats that only apply an acceleration for a (very!) few seconds.

Thios should make a *big* difference in fighter design. In M0 with 3g
of compensation, this means that you design a fighter for a *minimum*
of 7g. , and consider adding the capability of brief 21g "sprints". 

G	max
comp	sustained	sprint	eject
- ----	---------	------	-----
none	4g		18g	83g
1g	5g		19g	84g
2g	6g		20g	85g
3g	7g		21g	86g
4g	8g		22g	87g
5g	9g		23g	88g
6g	10g		24g	89g

I'd suggest that g tolerance limits be developed for Aslan, Hivers,
Vargyr, K'Kree, and the other non-human races. I'd expect K'kree to
have fairly low tolerances due to their body plan and sheer size. And
Hivers look like they'd be able to handle more acceleration than most.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:41:36 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: re: General Quarters

    Brilliant Lances implies that crews are normally in vac suits at battle
stations in the Damage Effects section for Life Support critical hits.
Decompression makes perfect sense, as do Vac suits, especially for damage
control personnel. As for non-dcp...  I like the imagry of a rescue ball under
each workstation...  
    I think that going to 0G wouldn't be standard procedure simply because
there's no need to degrade performance of Damage Control parties if there's no
need.  They'll certainly train for the chance of 0G repair but that would be
the exception, rather than the rule, IMO.
    The SOM says under Hull and Environment that "It is standard operating
procedure for an Imperial military craft to maintain a constant one gee field
at all times."   There is nothing listed for battle conditions, though, so
take that with a grain of salt.
    One last thing... : )

> there's a reason the Marine Drill Sergeant yelled at you to keep your area
neat >and clean. 

Ahem...  Marine Drill INSTRUCTORS take extreme... displeasure... at being
called "Drill Sergeant."  That's an Army term...  You've never seen a DI get
so angry as at being called a Drill Sergeant, i gather... It's not a pleasant
experience... One poor recruit managed to do that and had like 4 DIs
destroying him w/in seconds...  I never made that mistake!  : )

Gary 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:07:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, HAL wrote:

>   Ok, let's look at what goes into life support.  If anyone has ideas of
> what should be on this list, feel free to add to it:

[snip list]

> I am drawing a blank on anythings else...

LAUNDRY... lots and lots of it.  Sheets, towels, furniture, rugs, etc.
You name it, it's gotta be washed, purged, and replaced.  :)

People are never so messy as when they're messing up something that does
not belong to them.

[massive ka-snip]


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:26:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Possible NPC (longish)

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> >>Vacuum *and* Wet? I think there's a bug...
>
> Maybe not a bug...a feature. ;-> 
>
>> > Don't they know think there's ice on the moon ? would kind of suggest
>> > Vacume and Wet is OK ...
>  
>> The ice deposits (if any) are *very* small. They are confined to areas
>> in polar craters that *never* receive sunlight. That's because ice will
>> *sublime* (go straight from solid to vapor) in a vaccum except at
>> *very* low temps.
>
> Well, take a moon like Europa, a water world with little (if any)
> atmosphere. 
>
>> The ice deposits are likely a *lot* less than even 1% of the surface
>> area, making the Moon have a Hydro of 0.
>  
> Right, the Moon would have a hydro of 0. Of course, Hydro 0 doesn't mean
> NO water, just less than 1%..or the way I'd define it, less than 1/2 of
> 1%, anyway.
>
> A planet, or moon, in the outer system could very likely be a nice big
> iceball composed *mainly*, but not entirely, of water ice. So, what do
> would we call its Hydro? 
>
> IMTU, I include the ice as part of the world's Hydro rating. YMMV.

The trick is that without an atmosphere ice is *not* stable except at
*very* low temps. That means that it can't be in the "life zone".
Jupiter is on the edge. Europa almost certainly *does* have a thin
atmosphere of water vapor. 

By the time you get to Saturn, *small* chunks of ice (the rings) are stable.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:16:17 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: General Quarters Procedure

>2) All passengers/guests secured in cabins or safe areas

You would want them as near the centerline of the ship as possible since
they'd be protected here.

>Ones I can't decide on:
>a) Crew into vacc suits - at higher TLs, this one is easy, because vacc
>suits are so light and can be worn as duty uniforms. But at the low TLs,
>would the time necessary and the bulkiness be a deterent? Do sailors in the
>modern navy don life jackets during gerneal quarters?

In the US Navy, sailers go to General Quarters with lifejackets folded up
in a 'fanny-pack' type thing, a gas mask in a bag on the hip, long sleeve
shirts totally buttoned up, and pant legs tucked into socks.  They now also
where flashgear that consists of lightwieght gloves that have elastic
sealing them past the elbows, and a flashhood that almost totally covers
the head.  This is the bare minimum, damage control parties wear a lot
more.  This would almost be the equivelent of a vacc suit, and is far from
comfortable.

>b) Decompress the ship. This is rather radical, I admit...but it could
>prevent some chaos that might ensue during an explosive decompression. Of
>course, this requires (a) to be enacted :)

This would probably be based on the situation.

>d) Gravity normalized to 0G. Again, this seems radical - but could it be
>done to prevent the disorientation that may occur if gravity is suddenly
>lost?

This makes since to me, as a real danger could be a temporary loose of
gravity.  When the gravity came back on people could really get slammed
around.

			Zane

| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:21:47 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Windows CE Question

>If I write Windows 95 software, will it run on CE?  If so, I will have a
>very simple version of Metator running immediately (OK, 2 weeks) so I can
>use it during a game.  Infini-V will follow more slowly (ie. still
>planning on the April release).

Fraid not.  Win CE is using some wierd non-Intel processor.  Interesting
question though, I've no idea what it requires or how hard it would be.
While it's a shame about the Newton the word is they're working on a
version of "MacOS Lite" that will run on a Next generation Newton/E-pad.
This sounds preferable, since you would undoubtably be able to recompile
your MacOS code as long as you aren't using any high-end features that
wouldn't be supported.

				Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:25:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Windows CE Question

Hiya Rob,

There is an article on Win32 / CE development and software compatibility
in this month's issue of Dr. Dobb's Journal (the "Algorithms" issue).  I
give my take on the upshots below (ObTrav at bottom).

On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Rob Prior wrote:

> I'm finally gong over to teh Dark Side and joining the Evil Empire. $180
> ($120 US) was too good a deal to pass up on for a palmtop running Windows
> CE, especially with the Newton being toasted before I could afford one.

Eeeeeeevil!!!  :)

> That said, what is the relationship between Windows 95/NT/CE?  

Windows CE is a tiny little version of desktop Windows with a truncated
API, 240 x 480 max resolution and 4 colors.

It also depends on whether you're talking v1 or v2 (there's a box on that
in the article).

> Specifically, what Traveller software can I get that will run on this
> little machine?

None, AFAIK.

> If I write Windows 95 software, will it run on CE? 

Very, very doubtful.  Software *will* migrate in the other direction
though.

> If so, I will have a
> very simple version of Metator running immediately (OK, 2 weeks) so I can
> use it during a game.  Infini-V will follow more slowly (ie. still
> planning on the April release).

Depends on how you're interfacing with the API.  If you're using
somebody's application framework, and there's a CE version of the
framework available, it shouldn't be too bad.

> I currently have CodeWarrior, which claims to write Windows 95/NT
> software.

Erg.  Nothing about MetroWerks stuff in the article.  Everything the
author had to say was in relation to MSVC++ (v5 IIRC).

> I haven't confirmed this yet, and plan on spending no money on
> manuals, so may need a few mentors (hint hint).  If I need a different
> package to program for CE,what am I looking for

The article seems to imply that you need a special linker package to put
CE software together (although the executables will run on desktop), and
then proceeded to go through a *long* list of headaches involved in this
process.  Apparently, Microsoft markets a special version / extension of
MSVC++ for the purpose of developing CE software.  There are conditional
compilation flags and special libraries to consider.  CE development is
done on a desktop; there is a simulation environment of some kind
available for early tests.  After that, you put your executable in the
palmtop via serial cable, then test. 

> and can I get one for free
> anywhere?

I don't know, but I doubt it.  We are talking about Microsoft, after all,
and the tech is not very old yet.  Best of luck, though. 

ObTrav:  This is kind of related to that discussion I had with Leonard a
couple of months ago about ROM pack distribution of software.  Palmtops
are a technology where ROM packs really are used to distribute software. 
The point was raised in the discussion that a special development platform
would be required.  Wouldn't it be nasty if someone hacked into the LAN of
some development house and put a date-triggered trojan horse into a
production run of palmtop ROM packs?  Bankruptcy!

Well, that's my shot at an ObTrav remark, anyway.  :)


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #246
**********************************

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Traveller-digest        Friday, March 6 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 247



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Windows CE Question
Re: Acceleration limits
RE: General Quarters
RE: Windows CE Question
Re: Acceleration limits (dekagees -- wow)
Re: Acceleration limits
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: General Quarters Procedure
Re: Xboats and routes
Re: GURPS: Traveller
Re: Reverse Engineering (was Re: Office 98, ...)
Re: Announcement of the Assassination of Strephon
Re: Windows CE Question
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: 101 Books contact.
Re: Xboats and routes
Re: General Quarters
Re: General Quarters Procedure
Re: Mass Detectors
Re: Final Draft - InterAct Music System

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:28:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Windows CE Question

On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> Win CE is using some wierd non-Intel processor. 

Ooops -- you're right.  There is an x86 emulator available though,
somehow, somewhere.  There is a simulation environment available for your
desktop that allows you to test CE programs without having to deal with
the palmtop until absolutely necessary.


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 15:25:18 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Acceleration limits

At 04:57 PM 05/03/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>The latest issue of Analog has the first part of a 2 part article on
>medical problems and solutions in space. They give a reference to the
>rocket sled tests in the 50s. This is the exact info we were debating a
>few months back:
>
>4g is the limit for *sustained* acceleration. They mention higher
>levels being possible in acceleration tanks.

Like in _Mote in God's Eye_, the Navy could but usually didn't, the
merchants only did about 1G, because they didn't have the acceleration
couches, etc for sustained high-G maneuvering.

>18 g is the limit for "muscular control" In other words, above 18 g,
>forget being able to manipulate controls.

But unless the acceleration is constant from only one direction they're
probably going to be unconcious by then.

>And the 83g limit would apply to things like escape pods or ejection
>seats that only apply an acceleration for a (very!) few seconds.

IIRC an old friend who worked as an armourer for the Air Force siad that
old ejection seats did rather more than that.

>Thios should make a *big* difference in fighter design. In M0 with 3g
>of compensation, this means that you design a fighter for a *minimum*
>of 7g. , and consider adding the capability of brief 21g "sprints". 

Other ships would also benefit, of course - large ships would be at
comp+4Gs for combat.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:35:19 -0800
From: jasonw@cylink.com (Jason Williams)
Subject: RE: General Quarters

On Thursday, March 05, 1998 5:42 PM, TravelrTNE [SMTP:TravelrTNE@aol.com] 
wrote:
> > there's a reason the Marine Drill Sergeant yelled at you to keep your 
area
> neat >and clean.
>
> Ahem...  Marine Drill INSTRUCTORS take extreme... displeasure... at being
> called "Drill Sergeant."  That's an Army term...  You've never seen a DI 
get
> so angry as at being called a Drill Sergeant, i gather... It's not a 
pleasant
> experience... One poor recruit managed to do that and had like 4 DIs
> destroying him w/in seconds...  I never made that mistake!  : )
>

  I remember making that mistake.  No sir, I didn't like it.  And I don't 
care what they said, I was positive that DI's yelled at you for everything 
due to being directly related to Satan.


	Jason
	jasonw@cylink.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:37:30 -0800
From: jasonw@cylink.com (Jason Williams)
Subject: RE: Windows CE Question

  I'd have to dig through my MSDN stuff, but I'm pretty sure MS has both 
Visual C++ and Visual Basic for the CE..  I haven't convinced work to buy 
me a palmtop yet, so I hadn't really looked at it yet..

	
	Jason
	jasonw@cylink.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:45:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Acceleration limits (dekagees -- wow)

On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> The latest issue of Analog has the first part of a 2 part article on
> medical problems and solutions in space. They give a reference to the
> rocket sled tests in the 50s. This is the exact info we were debating a
> few months back:
> 
> 4g is the limit for *sustained* acceleration. They mention higher
> levels being possible in acceleration tanks.
> 
> 18 g is the limit for "muscular control" In other words, above 18 g,
> forget being able to manipulate controls.
> 
> 83g was the highest accel they put anyone thru.

I find that kind of scary, but totally consistent with the behavior of the
military in the 1950s.  I went back and calculated something: 

If my car goes from a velocity of 100 kph to 0 kph in 0.1 seconds (typical
high-speed accident), my body is pressed against the seat belts with force
roughly corresponding to 28 G.  83 G is almost triple that. 

Assuming that I'm snug in a couch with solid support under every bone, and
the acceleration was forcing me into the support, I might be able to take
it, but I expect that 83 G will kill an older person.  Their tissues just
can't take the strain. 

How were these tests conducted?

> But from the above, this means that for vehicles such as fighters, you
> can run them at 4g above the g-comp essentially *indefinitely*! Ships
> can only do this if there's no need for the crew to move *and* they are
> taking the acceleration "lying down".
> 
> The 18g limit would mean that if you could afford the drive to do so, a
> fighter could to occasional dodging manevuers at 18g above g-comp.

Yikes.  18/28 * 100 = 64 kph to 0 kph in 0.1 seconds.  Still not fun.  It
probably works though, since acceleration is always exactly forward.  The
body must be well supported.

> And the 83g limit would apply to things like escape pods or ejection
> seats that only apply an acceleration for a (very!) few seconds.
> 
> Thios should make a *big* difference in fighter design. In M0 with 3g
> of compensation, this means that you design a fighter for a *minimum*
> of 7g. , and consider adding the capability of brief 21g "sprints". 

The sprints might work with a big array of little EPlaC (sp?) charges on
the back of the ship.

[snip dekagee table]

> I'd suggest that g tolerance limits be developed for Aslan, Hivers,
> Vargyr, K'Kree, and the other non-human races. I'd expect K'kree to
> have fairly low tolerances due to their body plan and sheer size. And
> Hivers look like they'd be able to handle more acceleration than most.

I agree, but have no applicable knowledge.  I'd like to see the results if
somebody else does it, though.


Thanks,
Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 19:23:18 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Acceleration limits

At 04:57 pm 3/5/98 PST, you wrote:
>The latest issue of Analog has the first part of a 2 part article on
>medical problems and solutions in space. They give a reference to
the
>rocket sled tests in the 50s. This is the exact info we were
debating a
>few months back:

	Hmm ... I guess I missed that--time to go dig it out again.

>4g is the limit for *sustained* acceleration. They mention higher
>levels being possible in acceleration tanks.
>
>18 g is the limit for "muscular control" In other words, above 18 g,
>forget being able to manipulate controls.
>
>83g was the highest accel they put anyone thru.
>
>But from the above, this means that for vehicles such as fighters, you
>can run them at 4g above the g-comp essentially *indefinitely*! Ships

	I wouldn't want to depend on the reflexes or judgement of anybody
flying at 4g sustained ... even though it's physiologically possible,
it's *tiring*. Even breathing requires more effort than normal. How
did they define limit? Subject managed to remain conscious and
coherent? Was it wearing a g-suit or performing a g-strain maneuver?
What kind of activities did they have the subject perform while at
4gs?

	I seriously mistrust the idea of +4g *sustained*--for a few minutes,
as part of a combat maneuver, yes. IIRC, manned space launches are in
that region (Shuttle at ~3, Saturn a bit higher?). But as for running
for hours at +4 ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 19:17:50 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

At 08:27 pm 3/5/98 -0500, you wrote:


>  Ok, let's look at what goes into life support.  If anyone has
ideas of
>what should be on this list, feel free to add to it:
>
>Filters for air
>Filters for water
>Possibly fuel for heat sources
>replacement parts for crucial components such as fans and such (but this
>   rightfully belongs in the maintenance section...)
>Food: fresh and frozen along with vacuum sealed packages.
>Water
>Consumables such as toiletries
>Consumables such as toliet paper
>If using "airline prepackaged food trays" maybe the price for food would
>   be higher...
>I am drawing a blank on anythings else...

	Various chemicals used in processing air and/or
water--disinfectants, absorbants (for noxious or unpleasant fumes).
But that's about all I can think of.

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:52:58 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: General Quarters Procedure

I would definately decompress at least the nonessential areas of the ship.
This would prevent fires.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:56:15 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

The only rationale I can think of is that Book 2 uses a lot of "off the shelf"
equipment that is cheaper than military custom builts in HG.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:55:39 -0500
From: "Daniel Poulin" <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller

What about IRIS?

Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca

- ----------
> From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller
> Date: 4 mars 1998 23:12
> 
> On 03/04/98 at 03:03 PM,  Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
said:
> 
> >I do not yet know into which timeline my group will get, as we still
have
> >1105, i.e. two years before the 5th frontier war. I even think of letting
> >them visit BOTH via an ancient time portal ... but this is only an idea to
> >work out. There would be much alternatives to prevent the assassination.
> >The ancient artifact of the Zhodani Consulate (The one showing the Core
> >Missions) could also work. There are much possibilities to unfold the
> >future.
> 
> I'm hoping that Loren *doesn't* explain exactly what happened and why...
> 
> >Whatever you want to play instead, it's your decision as a master.
> 
> ...and that's why! ;->
> 
> Just about *anything* could have happened. 
> 
> 1.  It was a Ine Givar hit.
> 
> 2.  Lady Isis found out what daddy was up to and took exception to her
> "good friend Gen" (Iphegenia) being killed.
> 
> 3.  It was a one in a million accident, hit a fractional c rock...really!
> 
> 4.  It was a Hiver manipulation.
> 
> 5.  It was a Templar manipulation.
> 
> Whatever you want. ;->
> 
> 
> Eris
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:50:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Reverse Engineering (was Re: Office 98, ...)

In mail you write:

> J-Man wrote:
>
>>I think you would use this formula :
>>
>>surface area = (squared(radius * 2))*3.1415926535897926
>>
>>For approximate volume = (cubed(radius * 2))*0.5236
>>
>>for volume of a segment of your spherical ship :
>>
>>segvol=(0.5336((square root of Height of segment)+3*square root of
>>radius of base of segment)* height of segment)
>
>
> and Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>
>>Volume of a sphere = (4/3)*pi*r^3
>>Surface Area       = 4*pi*r^2
>>
>>So for a "unit sphere (ie one with a radius of 1) the volume is 4.19.
>>The area is 12.6. So the surface to volume ratio is 3:1. This is also
>>the *minimum* possible surface to volume ratio in euclidean space.
>>
>>compare with a cube. Surface = 6 * L^2. Vol = L^3. So surface to volume
>>is 6:1.
>
>
> Hmm. Thanks for the responses. What I was looking actually wondering was
> the reverse of this -- I would like to figure base spherical length
> (diameter) and surface area from volume. So if I understand this, and I
> reverse the formulas correctly, would this be:
>
> radius = (cube root of (volume/pi/(4/3))

vol=(4/3)*pi*(d/2)^3
vol*3=4*pi*(d/2)^3
(vol*3)/(4*pi)=(d/2)^3
root3((vol*3)/(4*pi))=d/2

> ... and since radius is 1/2 diameter, multiply this by two to get hull
> length for a spherical hull. Then multiply this by the Length Modifier (LM)
> to get a rough idea of the hull's length by configuration.

Area=4*pi*(d/2)^2
Area=4*pi*(root3((vol*3)/(4*pi)))^2

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 20:05:19 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Announcement of the Assassination of Strephon

At 12:25 AM 3/5/98 -0900, you wrote:
>"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote

>> Ah, but when the Arrival Vengence arrived at Trin, it carried a letter from
>> Strephon confirming the elevation of Norris to the Archduchy of Deneb.  So
>> it was legal all along. 

>However it does not say that this Warrant is backdated to 1116.  So the
>question is  - Under Imperial law does this mean that "it was legal all
>along" or does it just mean that it is _now_ legal & Strephon is letting
>the nine and a half year delay slide ?

I believe that since the wording contained the phrase "confirmed", Strephon
simply used the rebellion as an excuse for the paperwork being delayed, and
supported Norris' move all the way back to 1116.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 23:31:18 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Windows CE Question

Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> writes:
>Erg.  Nothing about MetroWerks stuff in the article.  Everything the
>author had to say was in relation to MSVC++ (v5 IIRC).
>
>The article seems to imply that you need a special linker package to put
>CE software together (although the executables will run on desktop), and
>then proceeded to go through a *long* list of headaches involved in this
>process.  Apparently, Microsoft markets a special version / extension of
>MSVC++ for the purpose of developing CE software. 


Thanks.

Could you tell me what the _oldest_ version of the compiler I need to use
to write CE software? (Assuming that the article says.) One of my students
can get outdated (one version old) Microsoft products really cheaply (he
has a friend who works at Microsoft, I think) - genuine shrink-wrapped
software with serial numbers and everything.

Our Metrowerks license is "academic", which I think means we have to pay
for updates. I can't justify that for the school when it's only my
computer that needs the update, and I can't afford to upgrade the school's
50-unit lab pack myself.

ObTrav: Well, any software I write will be Traveller software.  If You can
migrate CE-to-95/NT without much trouble, then you lot might be getting
your Windows Metator a _lot_ quicker than you thought. Or I thought,
either. These palmtop computers are really the way to go for game-aid
software (as opposed to game-preparation software.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 22:07:35 +0000
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

At 11:43 04/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I've been reviewing the starship expenses in TNE.  p. 222 states that
>each occupied stateroom has a 2000 credit overhead per trip (2 weeks).
>Double occupancy doubles that. That means 1000cr/person/week.  That
>can't possibly be food, so what's the rest of it?


7 Days Expenses for High Passage

Air Filtration and Recycling 
New Sheets and or Towels daily
Minor Cosmetics - but branded / fashion names
Drinks Cabinet possibly 50 assorted miniatures from various worlds
Complimentary Magazines
Complimentary Chocolates
Entertainment licensing - Videos / Audio - (copyright paid)
Computer Library Useage - cost of updates
Hire of clothes included - Dinner Jacket / Robes / Suits for
when those special parties or social events are held - these
need replacing and or cleansing

Food and Drink - Rare Dishes with several course - gourmet ingredients
3 plus meals a day at around cost price for exotic ingredients.
(a good meal in a restaurant might cost 50 or more when including
vintage wines and liqueurs) (50 x 3 x 7 = 1050 cut in half for ingredients
= 525 call it $750 dollars)

Dont forget that this money pays the Stewards wages too

Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 05:04:07 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: 101 Books contact.

On Wed, 4 Mar 1998 18:28:32 EST, SemoFetus wrote:

> Who is the contact for the 101 books?  Is it CORE?  If so, is there a webpage
> listing the books?  I was on Core's website earlier and could find no info at
> all.

Try the BITS page at...

http://www.innocom.demon.co.uk/BITS/home.htm



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:55:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

In mail you write:

>   Also, as a question to you all for debate purposes... why can't the
> imperium maintain deep space X-boat stations?  Why not make X-boat
> stations precisely 4 parsecs apart regardless of whether there is a star
> there or not?  Supply ships/tankers can drop of hydrogen fuel and other
> supplies needed.  PE suggests that this can be done, so why not use this
> approach for X-boat centers?

ecause the purpose of the x-boat networks is not *just* to deliver mail
from core to the fringe. It is to *distribute* information *throughout*
the empire. 

Such deep space links might be used in places where there aren't any
nearby worlds that are worthy of notice. But in most cases, the "relay"
points will be places where data is not only passed on, but also picked
up and dropped *locally*.

Oh yeah, one other thing. Barring some sort of "magic" technology, it
will actually be *faster* to *physically* link the two xboats for the
data transfer. The bandwidth required for the transfer is just too high
to be done practically over a "beam" type link. 

Expect the cable for the link to be several *dozen* optical fibers
running at terabit rates. You'd be lucky to get a tight beam link to
run as fast as *one* fiber. And you can't use multiple "beams" at any
sort of range worth mentioning. The physical link also helps preserve
security

So I see the Xboat jumping in, and making contact with the tender. The
"public" info ("newspaper" equivalent) will be sent over an unsecure
link at a high rate while the tender rendevous with the X-boat. As soon
as the boat is "docked" the data cables are hooked up. The data is
dumped to the tender and the portions addressed for farther along the
route get passed to the appropriate waiting xboat(s). 

Meanwhile the public stuff is relayed to the planet from the tender
over a comm link. As soon as the download is finished, a courier boat
physically transports the private data to the planet. Medium security
data may get sent by comm link, but the fact is, tthe bandwidth of
phsyically transported high density data storage media is *always* in
excess of the rate at which you can transport it over a comm link.

Right now it's quicker to ship a box of CD-R media via FedEx than to
send it over a T-3 link. And it was faster to ship record books than to
send the data over a telegraph line back when we first got the ability
to seperate data transport from physical transport. And it's been true
ever since. There's no reason to expect this to change in the future.

Still, this makes only a minor difference in the setup of the X-boat
service. The tenders just hang out outside the 100-diameter limit. I
assume that they get relieved often. Major hubs may have an xboat
*station* outside the limit. The tenders would be reduced to mere tugs.

The broadcasting of news leads many people to *assume* that the
private mail is also broadcast. But both security and practical
considerations prevent this.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 23:51:57 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: General Quarters

At 06:00 PM 3/5/98 EST, DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 3/5/98 14:32:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>smithw@hartwick.edu writes:
>
><< Look at how (wet)Navy submarines handle this problem - you don't see US
>Navy Sub Crewmen on duty wearing SCUBA gear, do!
>  you? >>
>
>If there are any ex or current Naval types here on the list, what are the US
>Navy steaming conditions?  I seem to recall there being four Conditions...but
>my military experience was on land, not at sea...

DustyLV769

It has been awhile but here is what I remember:

1. General quarters(Weapons Tight Normally) The Birds on the Rail, arming
pins pulled and two tuned to fire.
2. Reduced Level of GQ but all stations manned by a reduced crew members. 
For me it was called *Chow to Chow* because I was at my weapons console
from breakfast to lunch, off watch until supper(read working), on watch
after supper until Mid Rats (Midnight Rations)(Read Leftovers), sleep until
breakfast, then back on watch. Yes If I was lucky I got 3.5 hours sleep a
day. This I did in the IO(Indian Ocean) for 122 days straight.
3. Normal At Sea Cruising
4. In Harbor or At Anchor, with one quarter of the ship's company on board
at any given time. So the ship could get underway/fight if needed. This is
thanks to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

Surface Missile FireControl Second Class USN
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997-98 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 23:37:21 -0600
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: General Quarters Procedure

At 12:46 PM 3/5/98 -0800, dberry@mail.hooked.net wrote:
>At 02:17 PM 3/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>I'm working on trying to "flesh out" some aspects of the Traveller
>>universe - and I was wondering what a military's general quarters (Battle
>>Stations, Red Alert, etc..) would be on a Traveller warship...
>>7) Safeties removed from missile warheads
>
>I'd add a "weapons free" order past General Quarters.  GQ gets everyone in
>place and alert.  WF says we are about to shoot, so do all those unsafe
>things that will get you court-martialed any other time like pulling
>safeties off the nukes.

Doug,

*Weapons Free* in my USN service time meant, I could fire at any engageable
threat, what you may have been looking for is *Weapons Tight*.

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997-98 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 19:52:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mass Detectors

In mail you write:

>>I'm imagining a warship straining with every passive sensor to detect a
>>hostile craft. The crew doesn't move, doesn't dare breathe, so the mass
>>detectors can use all their computing power looking for the bad guy
>>instead of compensating for the crew movements...would kind of give you
>>the tense feeling like those old WWII movies, with the submarine crew
>>holding their breath as the enemy destroyer comes closer...
>>
>>Walt Smith
>
> Yes, our mass detectors loose 1 factor when the ship uses
> floorfield/inertial comp and another when using gravthrust/thrusterplates.
> The mass signature also icrease quite a bit for targets using the above.
> Mass detectors are IMTU also the only sensors that can look straight at the
> sun without detriment (I use an unrealistically large 45 degrees cone where
> sensitivity goes down by 1000 (logged to my logscale of course)) in the
> hospitable zone.

Now that I think about it, I rather suspect that mass detectors being
based on gravity *differential*, probably work on an inverse cube law,
just like tidal forces. That means that the sun is a *really* weak
source. But that's just a guess.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 22:15:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Final Draft - InterAct Music System

In mail you write:

>>Semo, your posting of this item, mere *hours* before my own mega-post re:
>>Zoetec media systems, such that it appeared only 5 messages prior to mine,
>>is just plain creepy.
>
> Ha.  I guess it is kind of weird :^)
>
> I had been promising a final draft to several people before I posted
> it, and I finally got the time to hammer out the rough edges.  I
> wouldn't worry too much though, as far as I know, I came up with the
> idea independently.

Bad news. "Independent invention" is *not* a valid defense for patent
infringement. On the other hand, all you did was *describe* it, not
build it, so you are safe.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #247
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, March 6 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 248



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: TAS/JTAS
Re: Why X-boats are J-4
Re: Why X-boats are J-4
Re: Why X-boats are J-4
Spinal mount crews
Re: X-boat System
Re: Bellerophon, Asteroid Navigation
Re: Spinal mount crews
Re: General Quarters
Re: Why X-boats are J-4
Re: Why are X-Boats only Jump-4?
re: Starship Expenses
Stat Test
Re: Why X-boats are J-4 (got long)
Re: Xboats and routes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 01:12:08 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: TAS/JTAS

CardSharks wrote:

> In a message dated 98-03-04 21:34:37 EST, you write:
>
> << >The phone call came three weeks after we got the papers back for the
> trademark
>  >registration. I told the guy to do a PTO search and get back to me. Never
>  >heard from them again.
>   >>
>
> The fellow from TAS spoke with me and after a while got verbally abusive, to
> which I took exception and told him if he couldn't keep a civil tongue I
> didn't need to talk to him. I believe I actually hung up on him, and we never
> heard back after that.
>
> Marc Miller

  LOL!  Hope you don't mind, but I've got to tell this story to my trademark law
professor.  He loves anecdotes like this that demonstrate that often, the last
thing you want to do is bring in a lawyer. especially when the parties can take
care of it, or _not_ take care of it, as this story demonstrates.  :-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 22:00:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4

In mail you write:

>> I was wondering how they dealt with scheduling.  Since it takes a
>> variable amount of time to jump (6-8 days), you can't be sure when
>> the next Xboat will arrive.

I don't see any reason for a "hard" schedule. A courier jumps from one
system and whenever it arrives in-system, an x-boat or xboats jumps out
along the next links. 

Given the cross-connections on the network, this works much link the
way news propogates over the internet. Whichever link is fastest gets
thru first. It's possible that a "longer" route will deliver first,
simply because the xboats on that route all got quick jumps. 

That's the way "general" info (ie not destined for a specific
destination) would travel. Any time an xboat's news has been received
already via another route, it'll just get dropped, just like
"duplicated" news postings.

"Addressed" info would travel over more "deterministic" routes. And
thus sometimes be slower, sometimes faster.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:39:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4

In mail you write:

>     Now figure the costs of all that and start multiplying it by the
> number systems serviced by the network.  This is NOT a trival sum
> even for the Imperium!  More to the point by "freezing" the
> technology at TL13 it makes local sources for spairs easier and
> doubtless cheaper to obtain.  Sheer inertia would keep the system at
> J-4 because of the ENORMOUS investment of upgrading.

>     Rather like the reluctance of local telephone companies to invest
> all that money to rip out the copper wires and put in fiber optics.
> Who is going to foot the bill for this extremely costly upgrade for a
> modest performance upgrade?  Is how the bureaucratic mind looks at
> it.  ;)

Actually, there's a bigger problem. The phone companies *are* putting
in fiber. They just wait until they need to replace or upgrade the
copper in an area, and then put in fiber.

The Imperium has a much worse problem. Because the "optimum" layout for
J5 or J6 xboat routes is *not* the same as for J-4. So you can't just
replace on a link by link basis. You have to replace the entire *system*.
And the boundary between the old system and the new system is going to
be a *mess*. Jumps of all sorts of odd lengths and in odd directions. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 21:49:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4

In mail you write:

> The only real comment I have about the J-4 routes overall, is that they
> seem to be inefficient.  If communications is the issue here, and speed is
> important, then the highest form of efficiency would seem to be called for.
>  I think what I will do later on tonight if I can, is look at the spinward
> marches, and consider what it would take to create an X-boat route that
> cuts time off from the amount of time it takes for information to reach
> from one diagonal to the next...  At that point, when I do it, I will make
> note of the "locations" of the x-boat routes and the "revised" routes and
> see how well they compare.  I will also look at how long it takes for
> information to reach high pop worlds...

As I pointed out in another message, you have to keep in mind that the
network does *not* exist to get data from one end to the other at
maximum speed. It exists to transport data to all the points *in* the
network. 

So end-to-end speed may take a second place to minimizing jumps between
strategic points such as subsector capitals. 

Just as the "travelling salesman" routing problem is important to
current theory and practice, the Imperium may have a similar problem
dealing with determining the "optimum" network layout. That's not
something I'd care to be in charge of modelling!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 02:04:15 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Spinal mount crews

What exactly do a 1000 sophonts plus do to crew a large spinal weapon?  scrub
the tunnel?  oversee and maintain power feeds and capacitors...  What exactly
would all of these sophonts do? 

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 22:41:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: X-boat System

In mail you write:

>>As has been pointed out, the xboat system was one of the reforms that
>>Arbellatra Alkhalikoi instituted as regent immediately after the end
>>of the Imperial Civil War.  At that time, the highest tech level that
>>was generally available was 13, so the system was instituted at jump-4.
>
> Others have mentioned that the reason j4 is used for xboats is for military
> and political reason -- i.e., knowledge is power, and the military and
> government want that power. My question is then -- why was the xboat
> network established at the maximum jump capable at the time? Surely the
> people that instiuted it knew about the knowledge=power thing.

I suspect that like a lot of things it started out as a
military/government only thing. So they wanted the max capability. But
as time went by more and more "special interests" got granted the right
to use it until it was finally made public.

Consider the Global positioning system. It started out military with
"limited" civilian access. Tere are even provisions for eliminating
civilian access in wartime by scrambling the signal. However, it's
pentrated so far into things that it's doubtful that they'll ever use
the scramble option.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 22:20:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Bellerophon, Asteroid Navigation

In mail you write:

> II. Asteroid Navigation
> -----------------------
>
> Suppose you wanted a breakneck dogfight in an asteroid field
> a la Star Wars?  Here's what I thought might go into it:
>
>
> Asteroid belts can be wide or narrow, dense or sparse.
> The number of turns it takes to go _through_ an asteroid
> field depends on width:
>
> narrow  : 4 combat turns
> moderate: 8 combat turns
> wide    : 12 combat turns
>
> To get through the asteroid belt, both the pilot AND astrogator
> must roll once per turn to avoid belt debris.  The difficulty
> is average if the belt is sparse; increase by one difficulty level
> if it is moderately dense, or two levels if it is dense.  Likewise,
> decrease the difficulty by one level if the crew is being careful
> and slow, or increase the difficulty by one level if the crew is
> being hasty (or in a dogfight).
>
> Asteroid damage can be fatal, since they are generally just large 
> massive objects colliding with your ship.  Let's say one impact
> does 2d6 hits to your ship, and roll on the damage table.
>
> Needless to say, small craft will get pummelled if they hit one
> of these babies.
>
> With these kind of odds, you better have a really good pilot/
> navigator set.

Alas, "asteroid fields" or "belts" such as seen in Star Wars and Star
Trek do not and *cannot* exist. If you put that much material that
close together it'd collect into *thousands* of planets in months at
the most.

The average distance between bodies in a real asteroid belt will be
tens of thousands of km. You have to be incredibly unlucky, or else
*decide* to intercept an asteroid.

In a planetary ring system, you'll have smaller particles, closer
together. These can be dense enough to be a hazard. Check the data from
the Voyage missions. One of them went thru a gap in Saturn's rings, and
collected some data on their composition. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 00:23:14 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Spinal mount crews

 
> What exactly do a 1000 sophonts plus do to crew a large spinal weapon?  scrub
> the tunnel?  oversee and maintain power feeds and capacitors...  What exactly
> would all of these sophonts do? 
 
They run within the wheels that turn the generators that power the
sucker. That or they personally throw all them mesons an' the like.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 22:25:44 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: General Quarters

"Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu> wrote

> As for Zero-G, I think I agree with Douglas - these artificial gravity and
> inertial compensators must be very reliable, perhaps to the point that
> everything else would fail first. I recall, during the Solomani Rim War, an
> Azhanti High Lightning Cruiser was lost (Bard Echo? slips my mind...) 
> anyway, while the powerless, blasted hulk of the cruiser was spiralling
> downwards in a decaying orbit, Solomani Marines tried to board it for
> possible salvage. Even though the ship was in this hopeless state, the
> artificial gravity was still working just fine (ref: GDW's _Azhanti High
> Lightning_ game).

True but this scenario was probably set up this way only because playing
it in zero G would have been a hastle.

I would hope that artificial gravity and inertial compensators must be
very reliable for safety reasons but the scenario may not be enough
evidence that they are.

Another point to consider is that artificial gravity and inertial
compensators use a lot of power.  There may well be ships whose
artificail gravity and inertial compensators still work fine after the
ship has received battle dammage who have to turn them off anyway
because they can not afford the power since they need it for life
support instead.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 17:19:46 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4

s.johnson107@genie.geis.com wrote:

> On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 20:47:10 Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> Wrote...
> > So when do xboats begin?  I keep seeing Jump-4 being the route, but I
> > don't know when the 3I makes the jump to that tech level.  If X boats
> > begin with the 3I, then they'd be jump 3 routes, wouldn't they, since
> > Sylea just reached TL12?

>     Not having my copy of the original Book 6, Scouts handy this is from memory
> but the whole J-4 xboat route system was established shortly after the Imperium
> reached TL13 which allows J-4.  Circa 350??? I think.  Which makes sense
> because the Imperium was expanding like crazy throughout Milieu 0 and continued
> to do so through out the next Milieu towards the Rim.
>     At some point it became obvious that without some system of pan Imperium
> communications the Imperium was going to fragment.  Once the system was in
> place it doubtless took decades if not centuries to put in place and then
> refine for maximum efficency.

[snip lots of good stuff, thanks]

This whole idea is just too useful.  Isn't it likely that even the Sylean
Federation would have a diplomatic courier system, similar to the xboats at Jump
2?  In fact, I think this might be even more important in a federation, since it
arguably has a higher potential for fragmentation and miscommunication - not to
mention potential problems like WWI showed).  This allows them to short cut a lot
of loops and arcs in the Sylean main (which I just mapped recently - it goes all
the way to Massilia).

Bloo
(Thanks for all responses, btw.  Guess I'm going to actually try to find some of
this MT stuff one day.  To date I have no so much have seen any MT material even at
a distance  :-(

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:57:03 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Re: Why are X-Boats only Jump-4?

Hal wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The only real comment I have about the J-4 routes overall, is that they
seem to be inefficient.  If communications is the issue here, and speed is
important, then the highest form of efficiency would seem to be called for.

<<snip>>

  It does occur to me as well, that there can be "official" X-boats and
unofficial X-boats.  The unofficial boats are created by private
governments to link up to official x-boats in order to speed up their
turnaround times...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

IIRC, CT Traders & Gunboats mentioned that the average jump performed
by X-Boats was only a little over Jump-3 - that is, the route would have the
occaisional Jump-4 but would be mostly Jump-3's.

It isn't the Jump rating that makes the X-Boat system so fast, btw - it's the
turnaround. A merchant ship carrying mail, it jumps in-system, refuels, 
transits to the Starport, unloads cargo, etc.etc.etc - it may spend a week or 
two between jumps.

An X-Boat, on the other hand, hands off it's messages as soon as it arrives 
in-system, to another X-Boat that may be leaving within the HOUR. 
Even if both the merchant and the X-Boat are only doing 2-parsec jumps, 
the X-Boat is still twice as fast.

Back to the Jump-4 routes - it may be that efficiency was compromised in return for
cost savings and availability of support facilities. There may also have been any amount
of political wrangling - imagine the economic benefits of being directly on an X-Boat
route. Starport upgrades, information services, heightened interest from commercial
concerns - these prizes would lead many members of the nobility or other planetary leaders
to twist a few arms.

I wouldn't be surprised of SuSAG or Hortalez et Cie had their own couriers, with their own
information routes. Some of them might even be Jump-6...


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 03:30:02 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Starship Expenses

Dom wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
7 Days Expenses for High Passage

<<SNIP>>

Dont forget that this money pays the Stewards wages too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No. The Steward's wages are paid for seperately, in the "crew wages" expense
line. 

Unless, as someone mentioned previously, your Steward is cooking the books
more than she's cooking the food....  :)



Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:01:41 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Stat Test

	A member requested a copy of this, since I can't remember the address, I'll
repost it to the list:



A lot of Traveller Fans have been asking about the Traveller test performed
at GEN CON last year.  So here is your chance to make a character based on
your stats.

STRENGTH
Subject holds an 8-pound barbell in one hand with the arm extended fully,
straight away from the body and parallel to the floor.

        Time    		Score
        0-1 second      	2
        up to 5 seconds 	3
        15 seconds      	4
        30 seconds      	5
        45 seconds      	6
        1 minute        	7
        1 minute 15 seconds     8
        1 minute 30 seconds     9
        2 minutes       	10
        3 minutes       	11
        4 minutes       	12
        5 minutes       	13
        6 minutes       	14
        7 minutes       	15

DEXTERITY
Tester holds a 12" ruler a few inches above subject's hand. Drop the ruler
three times in between the subject's fingers for the subject to catch.
Record the result each time, then ignore the highest and lowest number for
the subject's Dexterity.  Subtract this number from 15.  The result is the
subjects DEX.

ENDURANCE
Subject holds his or her breath.

        Time    		Score
        0-1 second      	2
        up to 5 seconds 	3
        15 seconds      	4
        30 seconds      	5
        45 seconds      	6
        1 minute        	7
        1 minute 15 seconds     8
        1 minute 30 seconds     9
        2 minutes       	10
        3 minutes       	11
        4 minutes       	12
        5 minutes       	13
        6 minutes       	14
        7 minutes       	15

INTELLIGENCE
How sharp and perceptive you are; not necessarily knowing a lot of stuff
(which actually comes closer to Education); mental quickness and
adaptability; using your mind to maximize the current situation.
        The subject's Int score starts at 3. Total point value for each
correct answer to the following questions for final score:

        1.      What is 2+2?
        2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the subject selling?
        3.      What is the biggest number you can make with three digits?
        4.      What is the next letter in this order: O, T, T, F, F, S, S, E?
        5.      What is your favorite game?
        6.      Who is your favorite Imperium Games employee?

EDUCATION
Highest Education Completed             Score
No Schooling Whatsoever!       		0
Preschool       			1
Elementary School       		2
Junior High     			3
High School/GRE certification   	4
High School Graduate    		5
College 				6
College Graduate        		7
Master Degree   			8
Ph.D.   				9
Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
Graduated Magna Cum Laude       	+2

Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction, classic literature,
magazine, etc.)
500-1,000                       	+1
1,000+                  		+2
Just (or mostly) comic books            -1
Just (or mostly) The National Inquirer  -1

Do you/Have you read...
Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1
Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

SOCIAL STATUS
Annual Household Income                         	Score
Below $1,000 (700 pounds)                       	1
$1,000 to $5,000 (700 to 3,000 pounds)                  2
$5,000 to $10,00 (3,000 to 7,000 pounds)                3
$10,00 to $15,000 (7,000 to 10,000 pounds)              4
$15,000 to $20,000 (10,000 to 15,000 pounds)    	5
$20,000 to $30,000 (15,000 to 20,000 pounds)    	6
$30,000 to $50,000 (20,000 to 35,000 pounds)    	7
$50,000 to $75,000 (35,000 to 50,000 pounds)    	8
$75,000 to $100,000 (50,000 to 75,000 pounds)   	9
$100,000 to $500,000 (75,000 to 350,000 pounds) 	10
$500,000+ (350,000 pounds+)                     	11

Do you have any currently famous relative?
(in politics, TV/movies, etc.)
Yes     +1

Have you ever been...
On television or in a movie?    +1
Honored nationally      	+1

Do you play Traveller?
Yes     +1

INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
1.        +1: 4.
2.  +2: Appropriate answer
3.  +3: 9 to 9th power to the 9th power.
             +1: 999.
4.  +4: "N", for Nine. ("O" is One, "T" is Two, "T" is Three, and so on.)
5.  +1: Traveller or Marc Miller's Traveller.
6.  +1: Whoever is giving this test.

PSIONICS
Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or back),
whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of right answers.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:56:30 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4 (got long)

>>     Figure that each "leg" or "jump" of the network needs a MINIMUM of four
>> couriers.  One in jump, one in system from jump and being recovered, one
>> recovered and being preped for the next jump and the fourth on station
>>waiting
>> for a courier to jump in so they can jump out to the next system in the
>>chain.
>> Add in a MINIMUM of two tenders, one to go get the courier and the other to
>> place it to be ready to jump and another facility to handle the tenders
>>and the
>> couriers.  And this doesn't include any slack at all for problems or annual
>> maintenance and what not. ;)
>
>I was wondering how they dealt with scheduling.  Since it takes a variable
>amount
>of time to jump (6-8 days), you can't be sure when the next Xboat will
>arrive.
[snip, snip]
>One solution to the scheduling problem is jumping every 9 or 10 days
>rather than
>trying to skim off a couple days here and there.
[snip, snip]
>However, this doubled pace only helps once or twice (getting to the first
>Xboat
>station an getting the message from the tail end). After that you multiply the
>number of legs by 10 to get the days travelling. I don't think that it
>would be
>economically efficient to try the 5 day schedule let alone the daily
>scheduling.

HrHmm..."4 couriers?"..."Once a week?" Son, you can't run an empire once a
week, they need this data in Mora within 28 months, not 50!

The following is IMNSHO, IMTU, etc.

The X-Boat system is used for communicating *across the Imperium*, not just
to the next world down the line.  It is maintained by the Imperium kind of
like the U.S. Mail before it became (theoretically) self sufficient, and
probably mail is charged a fee that will pay most of the cost of operation.

The X-Boat system will be enormous and hideously expensive (making a J-6
'secret' route harder and harder to believe, but hey! it's only a game!),
but it is deemed a necessity and therefore will be maintained at any cost.

Each Station with two Xboat "legs" will maintain at any time the following;

- -45 X-Boats (about 22.5 per destination + as many as the stationhead can
scrounge)
- -6 Tenders (3 per destination)
- -A few dozen personnel and cargo shuttles
- -"Enough" 1000-ton Refueling Boats, assuming wilderness refueling is
available to keep the fleet in fuel (or "spare" tenders, modified for this
purpose).
- -A full service Scout "Yard" for maintenance and repairs.  Not to be
confused with a Way Station which can construct and do major repairs, or a
scout "Base" which can house & maintain (and build) less specialized
vessels for the other duties of the Scout Service.
- -A goodly number of Scout/Courier type ships to service the off-route
destinations, number based on population and quantity of surrounding
planets and density of other xboat routes, but always guaranteeing one
Scout/Courier per week at each destination (for this reason I feel there
must be jump-2 and jump-3 scout/couriers out there we haven't seen
reference to).

A given Xboat will follow this schedule;
Day
001  Delivered to jump point by tender, Jump on command one hour after
incoming xboat arrives or 1800hrs Imp.
002-008 In Jump
008 Arrive destination system, picked up by Tender.  Crew is given a day
off and put on the next outbound x-boat back as crew.
009 Arrive at scout station
010-017 Maintenance cycle (assumes 7 days)
018 Begin again from other end.

Any "lag" caused by late jumps are absorbed in the maintanence cycle.
being a random variation, there will be times when maintanence is behind
and generating employee overtime, and times when it is ahead, which is when
'annual maintanence' is performed on the ships closest to needing it.

An Xboat station will have two xboats ready to jump for each leg at all
times.  One boat will leave each day under any circumstances, sometimes two
will leave on the same day if an incoming boat arrives late enough.  A boat
will always depart either when a boat comes in, or at a minimum, once per
day.

Boats do not depart on a fixed schedule, except that a boat is guaranteed
to leave by the end of the Imperial business day (1800 hours Standard
Imperial Time) whether an incoming boat has arrived or not.  A Boat will
always leave one hour after the arrival of an incoming boat, even if a boat
has left that day already.

This gets quite complicated on multileg 'hubs'.  If you have three legs at
a system, two ships are waiting at each leg's jumppoint (call the Legs 'A',
'B', and 'C').  A boat arrives from leg 'A', prompting the other two legs
('B' and 'C') to each send off a boat.  While tenders scramble to deliver
two more xboats, a boat arrives from 'B' leg, prompting the departure of
'A' and 'C' Boats.  Now 'C' has no boats left.  It is quite possible that,
within a few hours, another boat will arrive from either 'A' or 'B' leaving
'C' with no boats to respond.

To make life even more complicated, there are places along the x-boat route
where there is one destination (for ex.) 2 parsecs down the line and one
destination 4 parsecs away along the same line.  This would require one
more "set" of boats to service both legs, after all you wouldn't expect
data from Roup (Spinward Marches 2007) to be required to stop at Feri (SM
2005) en route to Boughene (SM 1904) right?

The same boat that takes your stuff to your neighbor becomes "their" boat
for the return leg.  In this way we can count from the date that a boat
becomes "ready" for another leg rather than the round-trip time, and come
up with an estimate of the minimum number of xboats we need.

Since *one xboat per day* (more or less) arrives and departs from *every*
xboat station, and one travel cycle is 18 days, each leg of the xboat route
needs *18* X-Boats plus spares for refit/extraordinary
maintanence/replacement of worn out equipment.  This is a huge expense, but
its worth it, and supported by Canon which brings news from the Core to the
Spinward marches according to this route's fastest j-4 speed (with a little
reduction for places where there are J-3 rather than J-4 gaps.

[I can see a J-6 network geared for specific destinations, such as sector
capitals and depots, rather than the whole xboat route, being significantly
more efficient at delivering information to those with access to it now
that I think about it.  The message to Norris probably was carried right
across the great rift, for example, and where there is no planet at the J-6
point in regular space, the expense of a deep-space depot would be
reasonable, and probably necessary.]

Going back to the example where there are only two "legs" into a system,
assuming the station 'owns' 45 boats, and jumps take about 6-8 days there
will be on any given day;

4 poised waiting to jump

12 to 16 actually in jump (I am assuming the station "owns" only the
outbound ones)

2 to 6 arriving and/or or being carried back from jump point

12 to 16 in routine maintenance cycle

4 to 5 "downchecked" for repairs (assuming 10% failure rate).

The rest (from 11 to 0) are spares.  With the above numbers and a worst
case scenario, its actually possible to be two boats 'short', that's when
the technician overtime gets piled on and maintenance shortcuts are
implemented.  On average there should be 5 boats surplus.  In practice, I
would expect Scout Techs to turn around boats on maintenance faster than 7
days, but a good Station Chief will not admit to this too often or will
find her/himself short a few boats next quarter.

One way to bring costs and time down is to have the xboat station orbit the
primary at or outside the jump point.  There is no real reason a station
has to even be anywhere near the mainworld of a system, except for crew
recreation.  This is especially helpful, if not critical, in systems where
the star is large enough to be the 100 diameter limiter - where the jump
point can be *days* of travel from the mainworld.

In fact, with the station at jump point, the X-boats could be tube launched
from the station instead of being dropped off by a tender.  They'd still
need pickup, of course, but getting them "100 diameters" from the station
(or outside the station's equivalent gravity well, if you prefer) would be
trivial, and the ships could be left ready but unmanned until actual
departure time (rather than, as I imagined, sitting in empty space doing
nothing for a few hours or a day or two, or being carried around by a
tender).

Also note that you can have the xboat for one leg substitute for another
leg's xboat at any time.  Their positions are not relevant, only the fact
that they are outside the jump limit.

I seem to recall that Xboats *do* carry a small amount of cargo.  Probably
mostly legal documents or somesuch.  These occasional special items make
good adventure hooks ("They paid xboat cargo rates for this?", "Yeah, they
even got the stationmaster to hold jump for a full twenty minutes!")

>>     All that said, I forget the source (TNS??) but there were plans afoot in
>> the CT universe to actually start the upgrade to J-6 using drop fuel
>>tanks for
>> the couriers.  I suspect the Imperial J-6 network was an MT add on.
>>Obvious in
>> retrospect, but still an add on STS.
>
>Wouldn't drop tanks become a travel hazard since you're using the same route
>repeatedly?

You'd have a tender hanging around to pick up the drop tanks.

Without (as much) tankage the ships would have more space for more computer
storage and bigger drives, but depending on your view of the technlogy, you
could just have a "hose" from the tender feed the xboat fuel just before
jump, or even just feed it energy for the "capacitors".  Of course, this is
all only applicable if you accept 'drop tanks' as possible.

                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 04:33:43 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

Hello Len,
  I agree with your analysis regarding how data would be transmitted ect.
However, I still don't understand why you can't have deep space xboat
stations?
  How many times have you seen X-boat routes Curve like a C?  A deep space
station maintained by freighters bringing in fuel and parts should work
out rather well.  
  Let us assume for the moment, that a station's needs for fuel per week
is 1400 tons.  Further suppose that food and such, along with spare parts
and so on, require another 50 tons of cargo per week.  Would not a tanker,
plus one normal freighter handle the needs of the space station in deep
space?  Now, add in a few "scout ships" with the ability to jump in, get
the mail, and jump back to nearby planetary systems, and you have your
mail route taken care of.  Essentially, the nearby worlds may not get
their mail as rapidly as they may have had the Emperor situated the xboat
site around a planet, but then again, if the emperor sites his X boat
routes with deep space sites, maybe there are those worlds where they are
getting their date *months* not just weeks, but *months* ahead of time.
If there are 4 "c" like routes between the emperor and the end of the
line, each taking normally 3 jumps to manage, but  a deep space station
cuts it down to two such jumps, then at the end of the line, the time
saved is 1 month total.

  Ok, I have been talking about the concepts of a deep space X-boat route.
WHat I haven't mentioned yet, is the possibility of "vulnerability".  If
an enemy of any kind appears, or by some mysterious accident the fuel at a
deep space location is destroyed - ships that jump to a fuelless location
will be lost.

  So how do we protect the deep space station?  How do we keep it from
turning into a major vulnerable situation?  Hmmm, how about a mobile
station?  Maybe a "lab" ship could be converted into a mobile x-boat
station...  Hmmmm

      Hal

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #248
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, March 6 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 249



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Newsgroup request
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: GURPS: Traveller
norris elevation (was:Re: X-boats and secret couriers)
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Why X-boats are jump-4
Re: Starship expenses
Re: [TTL] Re: Acceleration limits
Re: X-boats and secret couriers
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Xboats and routes
Re: Starship expenses
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: GURPS: Traveller
Re: Spinal mount crews
Re: Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 1
Re: one more thing for general quarters.
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Xboats and routes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 22:37:58 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Newsgroup request

My ISP's newsfeed has just gone down and is unlikely to be back for a week
or so. As there are a number of "interesting" traveller related discussions
(not sure if thats the right word) currently in progress on
rec.games.frp.misc. Could some kind soul please send me anything that is
interesting? Thank you.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"15 into 1 does go, I'm living proof"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 04:16:00 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

Hello Dom,
 Your listing was a good one, and I intend to keep it in my mailbox marked
Traveller.  However, I would like to ask one question...

1) the size of a bedroom in a house is what, 10 feet by 12 feet by maybe 8
feet?  This works out to roughly 960 cubic feet. With roughly 35 cubic
feet to a cubic meter, we are looking at 27 cubic meters.  Ironically
enough, this is exactly equal to the volume of 2 Displacement tons in
Traveller.  The remaing 2 Dtons is going to be used for such things as
common area's along with corridor space.  Now, if you take a corridor, and
it is 8'x 5'x 24.5' we wind up being able to have two adjacent suits on
both sides of the corridor.  This leaves us with 6 Dtons to use as common
area.

 Based upon what I wrote above, how much "partying" is going to be going
on for maybe 7 passengers on a 200 ton freighter?

  Also, as long as the entertainment tapes are not used as a means for
revenue generation, I suspect that it would not be difficult to obtain
privately owned material that can be part of an overall "library" and
permitted to the passengers for their own use. 

  In all, while those items used to disinfect surfaces etc are good
mentions, if they were anywhere near expensive, Hotels would not be able
to clean their bedrooms for the prices they do.

  In short, a lot of the stuff you listed are viable expenses, and do
belong on the list of "consumables", they still don't show how the prices
go overboard to the tune of $4000 american over a period of days roughly 8
days in duration.

     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 23:58:44 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller

>Date: Wed, 04 Mar 98 22:12:29 -0600
>From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
>Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller

>Just about *anything* could have happened. 

>1.  It was a Ine Givar hit.

>2.  Lady Isis found out what daddy was up to and took exception to her
>"good friend Gen" (Iphegenia) being killed.

Just how "good" a freind are they? :*>

>3.  It was a one in a million accident, hit a fractional c rock...really!

>4.  It was a Hiver manipulation.

>5.  It was a Templar manipulation.

I'm plumping for: A Virus infested near c rock, fired by a bunch of lesbian
Aslan pirates, who were mislead by Sayat translated orders from the Hiver
controlled Templars, sent via a jump torpedo. (All characters in this senario
were generated using a points based chargen system).

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"15 into 1 does go, I'm living proof"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:08:42 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: norris elevation (was:Re: X-boats and secret couriers)

- -> Anyway, one of the two big problems with the "Norris got the news before
- -> everybody else" notion is that it is extremely unlikely that there wouldn't
- -> be more than the two jump-6 networks that we already know of (Naval and
- -> Imperiallines) (Incidentally, those two networks alone makes at least seven
- -> people other than Norris that would have the news, the sector dukes for
- -> Deneb, Trojan Reach and Reft (and wasn't Duchess Delphine the sector duke
- -> of Spinward Marches?) and the sector admirals for the four sectors. Plus
- -> whatever code clerks and flag captains and flag lieutenants and secretaries
- -> and confidential advisers that learned of it along the way).
AFAIR, there was a TNS-message about a meeting of the high-nobility of 
Deneb, which was called together by Norris shortly before he 
announced his elevation to Archduke. I always figured that Norris got 
word of the Clones' death and decided that someone had to take charge 
in order to insure the survival of the domain. So he called them all 
together and discussed plans, and at some point all agreed that he 
should be the one to take charge and lead Deneb. So it was a secret, 
but not Norris's secret alone. The entire high-nobility of Deneb was 
keeping it!

Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 08:08:31 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

Dom wrote:

> At 11:43 04/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >I've been reviewing the starship expenses in TNE.  p. 222 states that
> >each occupied stateroom has a 2000 credit overhead per trip (2 weeks).
> >Double occupancy doubles that. That means 1000cr/person/week.  That
> >can't possibly be food, so what's the rest of it?
>
> 7 Days Expenses for High Passage

That's not High Passage.  That price is for crews and passengers.

>
>
> Air Filtration and Recycling

OK. One HP tank can hold 24 man hours of air on recycle (from PLSS data). Tanks
cost 10 credits to refill.  So that's 70 credits/man-week for fresh air.
(Nevermind pulling the oxygen out of the water we're using to generate the LH
for the engines...)

> New Sheets and or Towels daily

True, but I suspect they would be laundered. And larger ships would have
laundering services.

> Minor Cosmetics - but branded / fashion names

No, this is a personal expense. Soap maybe.

> Drinks Cabinet possibly 50 assorted miniatures from various worlds

Again, the figure isn't High Passage, its for staterooms used.

> Complimentary Magazines

> Complimentary Chocolates
> Entertainment licensing - Videos / Audio - (copyright paid)
> Computer Library Useage - cost of updates

All of these are shaky at best.  I'd hate to be the naval officer that had to
explain to the captain that you need 400 copies of the latest Space Bimbos
magazine for the crew.

> Hire of clothes included - Dinner Jacket / Robes / Suits for
> when those special parties or social events are held - these
> need replacing and or cleansing

Again, not necessarily High Passage.

>
>
> Food and Drink - Rare Dishes with several course - gourmet ingredients
> 3 plus meals a day at around cost price for exotic ingredients.
> (a good meal in a restaurant might cost 50 or more when including
> vintage wines and liqueurs) (50 x 3 x 7 = 1050 cut in half for ingredients
> = 525 call it $750 dollars)

Food costs in Restaurants running 30% earns the managers some major butt
chewing.  They'd really prefer around 20%. Somebody quoted good meals at 12
credits. Assuming a good Steward, food costs would be around 20% that's about 50
credits per man week.

> Dont forget that this money pays the Stewards wages too

No, it doesn't.  Stewards get 500 cr/ Service Skill above 1.

Summary: (Cr1000 per man-week)
Fresh Water:   Cr100 / ton (14000 liters). People use about 20 liters/day
(mostly for baths and toilets). about 140 liters/week, or Cr1 / man-week
Air: Cr70 /man week (in HP containers using recycle)
Food: Cr50 / man week (assuming a full galley and steward)

Total: 131 = 13% of weekly expenses.
Assuming prepared food (airline style) we could quintuple the price of food,
eliminating the need for stewards.  That  comes to Cr250 per man-week. bringing
the total to a third of the estimate.

Maybe there's exit visa type paperwork. And shuttles from the surface.  But Low
Passage only has Cr100 overhead / man-week.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:33:51 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are jump-4

Leonard Erickson writes:

>The Imperium has a much worse problem. Because the "optimum" layout for
>J5 or J6 xboat routes is *not* the same as for J-4. So you can't just
>replace on a link by link basis. You have to replace the entire *system*.

So what? You can just start with the obvious places, those where two
jumps-5 can replace 3 jumps-4 and replace each link one at a time.
And all the links that happens to be precisely 4 parsecs long never
do get replaced.

>And the boundary between the old system and the new system is going to
>be a *mess*. Jumps of all sorts of odd lengths and in odd directions. 

There's no real reason why all X-boats have to be the same capacity.
Sure, it's a nice, useful feature, but it dosen't outweigh the savings
you get from using jump-1 ships on a 1-parsec link. Nor is there much
reason why an X-boat should ever be employed on more than one leg,
going back and forth between the same two stations for all its service
life.

>As I pointed out in another message, you have to keep in mind that the
>network does *not* exist to get data from one end to the other at
>maximum speed. It exists to transport data to all the points *in* the
>network. 

Actually, it should have both goals. Which is why it should consist of
major links going as fast as possible and lesser branches distributing
along the way.
 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 15:05:20 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

Dom Reynolds writes:

>7 Days Expenses for High Passage

Wonderful. Now explain why the cost is the same for both High and Mid
Passengers and why it is also the same for crew members that spend 14
days of each 14-day period aboard as opposed to passengers who spend
8-9 days aboard.

>Air Filtration and Recycling 
>New Sheets and or Towels daily
>Minor Cosmetics - but branded / fashion names
>Drinks Cabinet possibly 50 assorted miniatures from various worlds
>Complimentary Magazines
>Complimentary Chocolates
>Entertainment licensing - Videos / Audio - (copyright paid)
>Computer Library Useage - cost of updates
>Hire of clothes included - Dinner Jacket / Robes / Suits for
>when those special parties or social events are held - these
>need replacing and or cleansing

All this _may_ get the expenses up to Cr2000 per jump (I especially
appreciate the 50 assorted imported miniatures)  --  I don't think so,
but I don't want to argue the point  --  but this is completely out
of proportion when you consider that we're talking about life support
for passengers _AND CREW_ of a tramp liner.
 
>Food and Drink - Rare Dishes with several course - gourmet ingredients
>3 plus meals a day at around cost price for exotic ingredients.
>(a good meal in a restaurant might cost 50 or more when including
>vintage wines and liqueurs) (50 x 3 x 7 = 1050 cut in half for ingredients
>= 525 call it $750 dollars)

You can spend any amount you care on food if you go to extremes like using
Beluga caviar and cigars handrolled by certified virgins, but again you
come up against the same two problems: The cost is the same for crew and
for passengers and the cost is the same for 9 days consumption and for
14 days consumption. It's silly enough to postulate that passengers on a
tramp liner, even High passengers, would get that kind of treatment, but
it gets beyond silly to imagine that the crew of same would get 25
complimentary imported miniatures per week.
 
Let me put it this way: Say you are the captain of a Free Trader and your
crew is serving on a share of profit basis. You hold a Ship's Meeting and
unanimous decide to cut back on the the pickled tree-rat tounges and the
skymelon brandy and stick to basic food. Eschewing fancy long-term-fresh
food you all agree to rough it, so you install a deep freezer and buy
frozen and canned food. Any passengers who apply are informed beforehand
of the food situation and if they don't like it they don't have to travel
with you. (I hope you agree with me that a Referee ought to have the option
of letting some of his ship captains run things that way).

According to the rules Cr400 per month buys you average food. That's Cr200
per forthnight. Now, given all this, how much does everything ELSE cost?



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 09:06:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: [TTL] Re: Acceleration limits

At 07:23 PM 3/5/98 -0700, David J. Golden wrote:

>	I seriously mistrust the idea of +4g *sustained*--for a few minutes,
>as part of a combat maneuver, yes. IIRC, manned space launches are in
>that region (Shuttle at ~3, Saturn a bit higher?). But as for running
>for hours at +4 ...

   Agreed.  Actually in TNE this is not a problem, since the ship's internal
structure is rated according to the number of Gs it can take.  Exceed that
and well...

   A lot of these G tests are merely reflections of how many positive or
negative Gs some one can take *in a straight line*.  Add lots of lateral
motion (like you would have in a dogfight) and the number of Gs you can take
drops significantly.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 15:29:19 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: X-boats and secret couriers

Bruce Alan Macintosh writes:

>Remember that x-boats jump precisely once per week, since data is almost
>instantly relayed to the next waiting boat, for a travel rate of 0.6
>parsecs per day.

Assuming for purposes of argument that the official effective rate of
X-boat propagation does not apply. OK.

>A jump-6 boat can only spend two days per jump refuelling to keep up with
>this - which is barely adequate unless you've made initial arrangements
>all along the route,

But all you need is the travel time from jump limit to surface and back
again if you are in a system without a fuel station at the limit and a
lot less in systems with such stations. That's less than 24 hours in
almost all cases if you avoid systems that require wilderness
refuelling.

>and also gets pretty tiring for the crew very quickly.

What, with 7-8 days out of every 9 spent in jump? They are a lot more likely
to get bored out of their skulls than tired out.

>Note also that you need a *lot* of ships to maintain something competetive
>with the x-boat network

You'd need one courier per link, though it's more likely that you'd spring
two per.

>(let alone the secret jump-6 network);

Something competitive with the secret jump-6 network would be a duplicate
of it, except that you would use 400 T couriers which ship for ship would
be a lot cheaper than the 2000 T ships of the secret network.

>saving those
>1-3 days of refuelling time makes a big difference in travel time for news.

Right, which is why you have a courier standing by in the next system.
When you arrive you transfer the news to it. It jumps in a matter of
minutes and you refuel and is ready to jump back again. This system will
give you a weekly update through in the shortest possible time and will
do for most messages. For those rare situations when you really need to
get a message through so fast that even hours count, you have secret
prepositioned deep space fuel depots spaced exactly six parsecs apart.
That will allow you to refuel in hours (This may not work if you have
rules about minimum times to service the jump drive, but AFAIK there are
no official rules about this).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 12:12:32 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:

>LAUNDRY... lots and lots of it.  Sheets, towels, furniture, rugs, etc.
>You name it, it's gotta be washed, purged, and replaced.  :)
>
>People are never so messy as when they're messing up something that does
>not belong to them.

Hmm. CJ Cherryh wrote a really good book on the laundry practices of
starships, called 'Finity's End'.










Okay, so it's not *just* about laundry.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 12:17:05 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com> wrote:

>The only rationale I can think of is that Book 2 uses a lot of "off the shelf"
>equipment that is cheaper than military custom builts in HG.

Don't forget the great big dedicated data processing and transmission
computer systems in the cargo bay...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 15:54:42 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

Simon Early 

>Standard life support costs Cr 5,600 per 100T of ship and has (my 
>estimate) a running cost of Cr4,200 per two weeks [p78 and Table 
>208 on p111]

If this is an invariant cost it should be included in the general
expenses rather than the per passenger/crew expenses. Is it?
 
>Standard Food Supply costs 819 cr per person and is for two weeks food 
>plus one weeks emergency rations [Table 211 on p111].

Average food costs Cr400 per month. Cr800 per forthnight would be 4 times
that. I suppose you can argue that food that can keep fresh and palatable
for 14 days are more expensive than food that you buy at the supermarket
every day, but a factor 4? Not even by TL 8 food preservation techniques
and I would say certainly not by those of higher TLs.
 
>If we assume an "average" shp that PCs will be using, crew + passengers 
>is around 1 per 25 T.

What happens if the crew and passenger use double occupancy? Does the
per-100 T life support cost double too?

>Thus, we have 1050 cr life support + 819 Cr food = 1869 Cr for two 
>weeks ... pretty close to the summary value of Cr 2000.

But passengers don't spend 14 days aboard a ship. They only spend 9 days
on the average. So if life support costs reflect supplies consumed, 
passengers ought to be about 30% cheaper than crewmembers. And for a
ship with a decent number of passengers that can run into significant
savings.
 
>[handwave = on]
> 
>Imperial law requires you to carry two weeks food + one weeks emergency 
>rations - to allow for delays, jumping in a long way from the 
>destination and "emergencies".  Due to the shelf life of normal food, 
>you are assumed to throw away any that is not consumed.

The shelf life of fresh food at TL 8 is often almost a month; for frozen
and canned food it can be much longer, and if you choose your ingredients
and meals carefully only an epicure would be able to tell the difference.
Goodness knows just how long fresh food will be able to keep at TLs 9 and
above. It's certainly not going to be less than today.

>Although e-rations have a long shelf life (TL years), only the most 
>cost-concious captains

You mean like the average PC captain?

>(or stewards on the make) would fail to keep the 
>e-rations up to date at every opportunity.
 
>Similarly, to allow a safety buffer, the life support filters should be 
>replaced after each trip ... you could run with half-used filters, but 
>if anything went wrong, the Imperial inspector would be most displeased!

And what if the captain ewants to run with the filters until they were
almost used up but carry several sets of spares? Shouldn't the rules
allow for that? Shouldn't they allow PCs to run whatever risks they chose?
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:28:12 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

>  In short, a lot of the stuff you listed are viable expenses, and do
>belong on the list of "consumables", they still don't show how the prices
>go overboard to the tune of $4000 american over a period of days roughly 8
>days in duration.
>
>     Hal

I way to save the rediculously high "lifesupport" costs in Traveller is
stating that this cost include an mandatory insurance for the
passenger/crew. If he gets sick, hurt, etc and the person or relatives try
suing the ass off the shipowner the insurance cover it (or parts of it).
The relatively low price for LowPssg life support covers only funeral
expenses and whatnot when the unlucky customer buys it.

OK?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 07:33:21 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

>I'm plumping for: A Virus infested near c rock, fired by a bunch of lesbian
>Aslan pirates, who were mislead by Sayat translated orders from the Hiver
>controlled Templars, sent via a jump torpedo.

... rebuilt by Famille Spofulam from derelict Rule of Man TL-14 munitions,
and originally intended to stomp out the sniffly, sickly,
technophobic-genocidal reactionary Vilani oppressors once and for all by
tapping into Grandfather's telepathic network and psychically infecting
them with nasty strains of E. coli.

> (All characters in this senario
>were generated using a points based chargen system).

What about the half-dice?

Concerned,

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 15:33:52 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Spinal mount crews

On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 02:04:15 EST, TravelrTNE wrote:

> What exactly do a 1000 sophonts plus do to crew a large spinal weapon?  scrub
> the tunnel?  oversee and maintain power feeds and capacitors...  What exactly
> would all of these sophonts do? 

There's these 1,000 buttons, see?  And they all need to be pushed at
*exactly* the same time...



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:38:53 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Zoetec Product Catalog, Part 1

>---------------------------
>Zoetec Inc. Product Catalog
>---------------------------

Great! Thanks you for some VERY useful stuff. Saved, backed up and printed
for my Campaign which is the highest rating you can get (by me). Great.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:46:14 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: one more thing for general quarters.

>14) Close the windows. (A 1-m square window with dim roomlight behind it is
>brighter than all the reflected sunlight off a military black scout.)

It also makes that 100 MJ lasershot less likely to penetrate...


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 15:45:51 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 03:30:02 -0500, Walter G. Smith wrote:

> Dom wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 7 Days Expenses for High Passage
> 
> <<SNIP>>
> 
> Dont forget that this money pays the Stewards wages too
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> No. The Steward's wages are paid for seperately, in the "crew wages" expense
> line. 

Wrong.  *Every* crewman's salary comes from revenue generated by the
ship... including paying passengers.

As for the difference between Middle and High Passage prices, you need look
no further than the difference between 1st and 2nd/3rd class on today's
airlines.  The last time I checked, the difference was between +200% and
+500%!

High Passage is a status symbol, just like 1st class is today.  You do not
necessarily get anything "substantial" over those lower paying passengers,
except the recognition that you've got money to burn.  If you want people
to think you're rich/famous/powerful/influencal/etc. by travelling 1st
class, it costs MONEY.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 09:39:17 -0600
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

I looked a while back on communication time between Mora and Vland on the
express boat lines.  I used the routes from MTJ #1 for the Marches and 
most of Deneb sector, TD #2 for Atsah subsector (Deneb-H), TD #3 for 
Corridor, and _Vilani and Vargr_ for Vland.

The assumption was made that nodes on the route could be bypassed if there
was a world farther down the route that was still in jump-4 range.  (That
is, the Mora-Vland message can skip intermediate worlds on the route as
long as it always moves at jump-4 or less, and always between two worlds
on an xboat route.)

Mora to Vland (29 weeks):
  Mora to Vincennes, Deneb:             4 weeks
  Vincennes to Deneb:                   3 weeks
  Deneb to Erlu, Corridor:              5 weeks 
  Erlu to Antiquity                     2 weeks
  Antiquity to Depot                    3 weeks
  Depot to Lemish                       1 week
  Lemish to Vland                      11 weeks

The message passes through a number of important worlds en route, and 
I've used those to make this list more manageable; notable are Deneb
and Depot.  Kaasu (Corridor 1209, sector capital) is out of the way.
Remember that this is at xboat speeds; a trader will take about twice
as long on this route at jump-4.

"Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu> wrote:

> IIRC, CT Traders & Gunboats mentioned that the average jump performed
> by X-Boats was only a little over Jump-3 - that is, the route would have the
> occaisional Jump-4 but would be mostly Jump-3's.

I'd have to drag out my map to look, but the distance traveled from
Mora to Vland on the route is something slightly over 100 parsecs.
At 29 weeks, that's an average speed of jump-3.5.  At 39, that's a
speed of about jump-2.6.

> It isn't the Jump rating that makes the X-Boat system so fast, btw - it's the
> turnaround. A merchant ship carrying mail, it jumps in-system, refuels, 
> transits to the Starport, unloads cargo, etc.etc.etc - it may spend a week or 
> two between jumps.

I believe the relevant sources claimed the fastest transfer on record
was seven minutes.  I also seem to recall that xboats were scheduled
to leave roughly once every four hours, but I could be wrong.

To get a good feel for the flow of the official xboat routes, you 
have to look at sector scale or wider.  The most obviously planned
GDW route is the Solomani Rim, where a trunk from Core runs to a hub
around Dingir, with cross connects running to rimward and spinward
across the sector and, as I recall, way stations in reasonable places.
The DGP-designed routes (Deneb, Corridor, Vland) seem to flow fairly
well, although they tended to mess up way station locations royally. 

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #249
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, March 6 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 250



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Bellerophon, Asteroid Navigation
Re: X-boats are J-4
re: Re: Xboats and routes
ice worlds
GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"
Re: Newsgroup request
Re: Starship expenses
re: Starship Expenses
Re: Asteroid Navigation
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: ice worlds
Re: Why X-boats are jump-4
Re: Starship expenses
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Starship Expenses
re: Starship Expenses
Stewards (was: Starship Expenses)
Rerouting Xboat routes probably a bad idea
Why Norris' secret is safe
T4 stat test

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:42:27 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Bellerophon, Asteroid Navigation

>II. Asteroid Navigation
>-----------------------
>
>Suppose you wanted a breakneck dogfight in an asteroid field
>a la Star Wars?  Here's what I thought might go into it:

And keep being realistic? Voyager, Cassini etc went through our belt with
NO dodging at all as the chance of a collision detectable before hitting is
minuscule. If you want to stage a near Empire Strikes Back dogfight, do it
in a GG ring or a recently blown up asteroid a la Beltstrike.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 10:55:05 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: X-boats are J-4

> From: hal@buffnet.net
> Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4
> 
> Hal quoting,
> 
>> Wouldn't drop tanks become a travel hazard since you're using the 
>> same route repeatedly?
> 
>  The second answer is "an object in motion remains in motion unless > acted upon by an outside force.  This means that the drop tanks are  > going away from the "exit jump point" and eventually, if they have  > stellar escape speed, leaving the system etc...
> 
>      Hal

If the X-boats are maneuverless, then the drop tanks would have very
little velocity, only that from their release.  As mentioned on other
posts, the tenders that go and pick up x-boats, refuel etc, would likely
pick up any drop tanks encountered.  Particularly if they were
positioning an x-boat at a jump point...

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:58:31 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Re: Xboats and routes

One thing to keep in mind in free-space deep-space xboat locations is that
thruster plates don't work in free space (or work very poorly); tenders
have to be custon HEPlaR designs, which complicates logistics still more,
and makes them fairly vulnerable to kinetic energy weapon attack.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:45:46 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: ice worlds

>The trick is that without an atmosphere ice is *not* stable except at
>*very* low temps. That means that it can't be in the "life zone".
>Jupiter is on the edge. Europa almost certainly *does* have a thin
>atmosphere of water vapor. 
I don't think Europa's atmosphere contributes to its stability particularly;
I would suspect (without doing any research) that the atmosphere is being
stripped away and replaced by newly-sublimated ice (which is evidence of 
Leonards point, I suppose, but the timescales are really really really long.)

(And, of course, we've all just found out that there is ice on the nearest
vacuum world to Earth...)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: 06 Mar 1998 12:29 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"

PSIONICS
Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or back),
whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of right answers.

- ---

Shouldn't this rather be something like:

PSI = abs(number correct - number incorrect) ?


A:# correct	B:# incorrect		abs(A-B)
- ------------------------------------------------
0		F			F
1		E			D
2		D			B
3		C			9
4		B			7
5		A			5
6		9			3
7		8			1
8		7			1
9		6			3
A		5			5
B		4			7
C		3			9
D		2			B
E		1			D
F		0			F

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 08:50:58 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Newsgroup request

At 10:37 PM 3/6/98 +1300, you wrote:
>My ISP's newsfeed has just gone down and is unlikely to be back for a week
>or so. As there are a number of "interesting" traveller related discussions
>(not sure if thats the right word) currently in progress on
>rec.games.frp.misc. Could some kind soul please send me anything that is
>interesting? Thank you.

You mean other than me and Michael Richter doing our Londo and G'kar
impersonations?
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 12:48:41 EST
From: Volant Zep <VolantZep@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

Does anyone have any idea how much a normal fair ticket costs on a Major
Airline?  It is priced to what the market will bear.  And most people
(individuals) only pay a fraction of that cost with businesses buying the
majority of full fair rates, so that they have flexibility.  I am not even
talking about first class.  Full fare rates are more easily transfered or
exchanged.  Cruise ships work on much the same principle, with stateroom being
generally very expensive.  But if you time it right you can get the same room
for a fraction of the normal rate.  Is this because it is cheaper to maintain
a room for people who sign up later?  Obviously not.  They are simply trying
to maximize profits.  Traders will most certainly work on the same principle.
The 2000cr  is a full fare rate and there would be discount rates available in
most circumstances.

People in business to make money are obviously going to charge more than it
costs, its really a question of how much more are you willing to pay.

JMHO

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 12:35:43 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Starship Expenses

"Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu> wrote:

>Dom wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
><<SNIP>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Oh no I didn't. It was the other Dom not me! ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:18:43 -0500
From: Michael Stasica <stosh@netopia.net>
Subject: Re: Asteroid Navigation

>Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 22:20:09 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Bellerophon, Asteroid Navigation
>
>In mail you write:
>
>> II. Asteroid Navigation
>> -----------------------

=== snip of quoted post ===

>
>Alas, "asteroid fields" or "belts" such as seen in Star Wars and Star
>Trek do not and *cannot* exist. If you put that much material that
>close together it'd collect into *thousands* of planets in months at
>the most.

Yes but this system could still be used for a swarm of planetesimals.
(hmmm are 300+ mountain sized rocks called a swarm?)
IIRC the leading Trojan group of Jupiter has 315 documented members,
admittedly much small than a STAR ???? whatever belt but it might still
make for an interesting game session.

I have to admit I'm not clear on how the orbital mechanics work,
but for this instance I believe it must be quite chaotic.

=== I now return you to the remainder of the quoted post ===

>collected some data on their composition. 
>
>- -- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)

Michael "STOSH" Stasica

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 18:23:50 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

> Also, can anyone tell me the answer to this?  On page 79, it states that
> good meals cost 12 credits.  A full two weeks worth is 504 credits.  A
> week's worth of emergency rations is 210 credits.  This totals to 714
> credits... not 819 listed in the book.

The table used 15 Cr per e-ration instead of 10 Cr

> Is this an errata that needs to be addressed,

I think I can gloss over that one with most players :-)

> Question is: is that the extra cost for extra capacity via equiment,
> or via consumables?  

As I said, I assumed that the +75% cost for x2 duration reflected only the 
additional consumables.  It is only an assumption on my part.


> I don't think oxygen is going to be a factor in cost here.

If you buy Type IV life support then you do not need to buy oxygen - you 
have all the compressors and regenerable recycling equipment.  If you have 
type III life support then you have not installed those compressors and you 
need to spend money on buying oxygen filters, absorbents etc each trip.


At the end of the day, if you think that life suppport should be less, then 
make it less in your games.  I was pointing out that the cost of pre-packed 
meals in FFS was not completely unreasonable and that the life support 
consumables were of similar value to the cargo space they freed-up ... 
meaning that Cr 2000 per jump is consistent (from my point of view) with a 
more detailed analysis.  Cr 2,000 is just a way of making the bookkeeping 
easy.  Imagine the alternative:

[Ref rolls dice]
This is an Ag world so food is only 1 cr per meal for re-supply.
The "compressors-R-us" franchise will refill you oxygen for only Cr 200 
using local air.
CO2 filters are hard to come by - they have to be imported - so cost Cr 500 
per person.  You have to pay as you'll die without them.
[spends 5 mins with a calculator], that's a total of 571 Cr per person


[next world]
This is an As worlds, everything is imported.
blah, blah loadsamoney

.. and so on as they encounter tainted worlds, barren worlds with no food, 
worlds where the local food in inedible for humans.

IMTU I intend to claim that type IV life support is installed, let the 
captain determine how many meals (at 1.5 litres each) are carried and let 
the steward PC handle re-stocking, buying local produce, tracking inventory 
and so on.  If they get bored of bookkeeping I shall say "standard life 
support cost is <random figure> per person per week."


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:52:31 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: ice worlds

>what defines
>a vacume world?  Absolutely no atmosphere?  What constitutes a "trace"
>atmosphere?

I would say that Mars is "trace" - it has an atmosphere with measurable
effects, but there's no way to breath it without a pressure suit. The
moon (and Europa) are vacuum - their "atmospheres" are matters of scientific
curiosity rather than having any practical effects.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 14:02:30 -0500
From: Robert Kondrk <dss2@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are jump-4

> So what? You can just start with the obvious places, those where two
> jumps-5 can replace 3 jumps-4 and replace each link one at a time.
> And all the links that happens to be precisely 4 parsecs long never
> do get replaced.

I suppose you could, but consider the "political" ramifications. Someone
earlier on mentioned the commercial benefits and prestige that a world
receives as an x-boat stop. If you change the routes, you'd get a lot of
political pressure from the planets that would lose out.

> There's no real reason why all X-boats have to be the same capacity.
> Sure, it's a nice, useful feature, but it dosen't outweigh the savings
> you get from using jump-1 ships on a 1-parsec link. 

I'm not sure I agree with this. I think you would save significantly
more in simplified logistics, starship purchase volume discounts,
standardized/interchangable parts and simplified operating procedures. 

> Nor is there much
> reason why an X-boat should ever be employed on more than one leg,
> going back and forth between the same two stations for all its service
> life.

Since rapid turnaround is of primary importance, I don't think you'd see
the same x-boat on the same leg for its entire service life. Given the
slight variability of jump duration, and periodic maintenance/equipment
failures, I can't see the x-boat system being efficient enough unless
each x-boat is fully interchangeable with every other one. That way, you
can maintain a "pool" of x-boats ready to be used where needed as
needed.

- ---------------------------------------------
Bob Kondrk
Rahway, NJ USA
dss2@erols.com

Webpage:
http://members.tripod.com/~rkondrk/index.html
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 19:00:45 +0000
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

At 15:05 06/03/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Dom Reynolds writes:
>
 <enough rubbish to potentially start a flame war - snipped >

Hans Rancke wrote :

>You can spend any amount you care on food if you go to extremes like using
>Beluga caviar and cigars handrolled by certified virgins, but again you
>come up against the same two problems: The cost is the same for crew and
>for passengers and the cost is the same for 9 days consumption and for
>14 days consumption. It's silly enough to postulate that passengers on a
>tramp liner, even High passengers, would get that kind of treatment, but
>it gets beyond silly to imagine that the crew of same would get 25
>complimentary imported miniatures per week.

I feel that if the passengers are getting exotic foods then to prevent
the crews acting strange and stealing some to try - sometimes you might
wish to treat them.  (Typical PCs)

> 
>Let me put it this way: Say you are the captain of a Free Trader and your
>crew is serving on a share of profit basis. You hold a Ship's Meeting and
>unanimous decide to cut back on the the pickled tree-rat tounges and the
>skymelon brandy and stick to basic food. Eschewing fancy long-term-fresh
>food you all agree to rough it, so you install a deep freezer and buy
>frozen and canned food. Any passengers who apply are informed beforehand
>of the food situation and if they don't like it they don't have to travel
>with you. (I hope you agree with me that a Referee ought to have the option
>of letting some of his ship captains run things that way).

Yep the GM can charge any price he feels like (via NPCs) however to keep
things
simple the 2000 cr a jump is there to cover most eventualities.  If you have
a passenger whose stateroom needs a refit so they can breath amonia or some
other strange atmosphere the fee covers that.


>
>According to the rules Cr400 per month buys you average food. That's Cr200
>per forthnight. Now, given all this, how much does everything ELSE cost?

How much does it cost, and how much are the crews being ripped off ?



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 18:51:08 +0000
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

At 15:45 06/03/98 GMT, you wrote:
>On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 03:30:02 -0500, Walter G. Smith wrote:
>
>> Dom wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> 7 Days Expenses for High Passage
>> 
>> <<SNIP>>
>> 
>> Dont forget that this money pays the Stewards wages too
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> 
>> No. The Steward's wages are paid for seperately, in the "crew wages"
expense
>> line. 
>
>Wrong.  *Every* crewman's salary comes from revenue generated by the
>ship... including paying passengers.
>
>
Yep I got this wrong - unless you figure in the kickbacks that Stewards get
from the catering providers - :-)



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 18:49:13 +0000
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

>Total: 131 = 13% of weekly expenses.
>Assuming prepared food (airline style) we could quintuple the price of food,
>eliminating the need for stewards.  That  comes to Cr250 per man-week.
bringing
>the total to a third of the estimate.
>
>Maybe there's exit visa type paperwork. And shuttles from the surface.
But Low
>Passage only has Cr100 overhead / man-week.
>


 It could be 250 of weekly expenses actual cost price, however if you are
purchasing
these supplies from service providers at starports they may have some form of
monopoly.  Perhaps they charge a set fee for everything, even if you do not
need
half of the things.  There could be export duties and certification fees
involved along
with the resellers mark up which on average pushes the bill to approx 2000cr.

 Someone has to pay the capital costs of each starport being constructed
and it 
would not be covered by the 100cr berthing fees.



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 18:52:58 +0000
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: re: Starship Expenses

At 12:35 06/03/98 +0000, you wrote:
>"Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu> wrote:
>
>>Dom wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>><<SNIP>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>Oh no I didn't. It was the other Dom not me! ;-)
>
>Dom
>
 
Yep  add  inic on the end of the below



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:25:54 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Stewards (was: Starship Expenses)

James Lindsay wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Walt Smith wrote:
> No. The Steward's wages are paid for seperately, in the "crew wages" expense
> line. 

Wrong.  *Every* crewman's salary comes from revenue generated by the
ship... including paying passengers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Life support isn't a revenue, it's an expense. The Steward's salary is one expense (2000Cr/month d.o.e.), life support is another, annual maintenance, bank payment, etc - all in the "expenses" column.

The "Revenue" column is where you find the money the passengers pay in...of the 10000Cr a High Passenger pays, 2000Cr goes to life support, 125Cr goes to the Steward (one-sixtienth of a Steward's salary, as that's how many High Passengers he can service per month) and the rest (7875Cr) goes towards other expenses and the ship's profit margin. Life Support and Steward's Salary are clearly distinguished from each other as separate line items - while it is true that part of what the High Passenger pays out pays the Steward, it's impossible for part of the life support expense to be Steward's Salary - unless, again, your Steward has been cooking the books...


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:00:23 +0100
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Rerouting Xboat routes probably a bad idea

Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:33:51 +0100 (MET) Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

>>The Imperium has a much worse problem. Because the "optimum" layout 
>>for J5 or J6 xboat routes is *not* the same as for J-4. So you can't just
>>replace on a link by link basis. You have to replace the entire *system*.
>
>So what? You can just start with the obvious places, those where two
>jumps-5 can replace 3 jumps-4 and replace each link one at a time.
>And all the links that happens to be precisely 4 parsecs long never
>do get replaced.

One thing you have to keep in mind here is, as always, economics. As Marc Miller himself stated at the beginning of this thread, Xboat routes typically run between fairly important worlds.

Bypassing almost any world that's been on the Xboat network for centuries will have severe economic consequences for that world.

Rerouting the network could dramatically alter the economic situation in a local region, as speculators begin to buy businesses and real estate on the new node planets, while stock exchange panic will be the result on the old nodes.

The result will be economic collapse, as the old worlds will be drained of capital with ensuing unemployment, depression etc. The new worlds will experience skyrocketing exchange rates, stock rates and property values without the industrial or technological base to support it. Here, the result will be an overheated economy which could collapse in as short time as five to ten years.

So, noone would win. Worlds would know this in advance and would massively protest against rerouting. If enough worlds were affected, you might actually experience a local uprising.

From an economic viewpoint, rerouting the Xboat network wouldn't be a good idea, IMHO, IMTU, etc.

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
mse@oticon.dk (work)
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:20:13 +0100
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Why Norris' secret is safe

Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:55:24 +0100 (MET) Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

>Anyway, one of the two big problems with the "Norris got the news before
>everybody else" notion is that it is extremely unlikely that there wouldn't
>be more than the two jump-6 networks that we already know of (Naval and
>Imperiallines) (Incidentally, those two networks alone makes at least seven
>people other than Norris that would have the news, the sector dukes for
>Deneb, Trojan Reach and Reft (and wasn't Duchess Delphine the sector duke
>of Spinward Marches?) and the sector admirals for the four sectors. Plus
>whatever code clerks and flag captains and flag lieutenants and secretaries
>and confidential advisers that learned of it along the way).

<cut of analysis about the number of people who would have known that Norris cheated>

I couldn't agree more with Hans with regards to megacorporations having their own
high-speed courier routes as well. They certainly have IMTU.

Reason will then have it, at Hans writes, that at least several hundred people in the Domain of Deneb knows that Norris cheated. Why didn't they tell?

Upon first receiving these news about Strephon's assassination, any high-power politician (that being noble, naval or corporate) will recognize the need to keep this information secret.

Anyone who knows this is in a very powerful position - telling will reduce that power. So we can pretty much assume that if everyone acts reasonably rational (i know that's a big 'if'), the information will stay secret.

When Norris then announces his elevation to archduke, a quick analysis will show that going public with the fact that it could be a fraud would only destabilize the domain, as contenders to the position would come forward. A mini civil war might even take place.

Also, there's the fact that noone with the advance knowledge can be certain that the appointment to archduke isn't real. They can only suspect that very much.

Thus, among those who know in advance, it's in noones interest to publicize the secret - not even the Duchess Delphine, who is described as somewhat opposed to Norris' politics, but a very pragmatic leader.

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
mse@oticon.dk (work)
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 15:25:49 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: T4 stat test

	Per someone's request (sorry for the delay):



A lot of Traveller Fans have been asking about the Traveller test performed
at GEN CON last year.  So here is your chance to make a character based on
your stats.

STRENGTH
Subject holds an 8-pound barbell in one hand with the arm extended fully,
straight away from the body and parallel to the floor.

        Time    		Score
        0-1 second      	2
        up to 5 seconds 	3
        15 seconds      	4
        30 seconds      	5
        45 seconds      	6
        1 minute        	7
        1 minute 15 seconds     8
        1 minute 30 seconds     9
        2 minutes       	10
        3 minutes       	11
        4 minutes       	12
        5 minutes       	13
        6 minutes       	14
        7 minutes       	15

DEXTERITY
Tester holds a 12" ruler a few inches above subject's hand. Drop the ruler
three times in between the subject's fingers for the subject to catch.
Record the result each time, then ignore the highest and lowest number for
the subject's Dexterity.  Subtract this number from 15.  The result is the
subjects DEX.

ENDURANCE
Subject holds his or her breath.

        Time    		Score
        0-1 second      	2
        up to 5 seconds 	3
        15 seconds      	4
        30 seconds      	5
        45 seconds      	6
        1 minute        	7
        1 minute 15 seconds     8
        1 minute 30 seconds     9
        2 minutes       	10
        3 minutes       	11
        4 minutes       	12
        5 minutes       	13
        6 minutes       	14
        7 minutes       	15

INTELLIGENCE
How sharp and perceptive you are; not necessarily knowing a lot of stuff
(which actually comes closer to Education); mental quickness and
adaptability; using your mind to maximize the current situation.
        The subject's Int score starts at 3. Total point value for each
correct answer to the following questions for final score:

        1.      What is 2+2?
        2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the subject selling?
        3.      What is the biggest number you can make with three digits?
        4.      What is the next letter in this order: O, T, T, F, F, S, S, E?
        5.      What is your favorite game?
        6.      Who is your favorite Imperium Games employee?

EDUCATION
Highest Education Completed             Score
No Schooling Whatsoever!       		0
Preschool       			1
Elementary School       		2
Junior High     			3
High School/GRE certification   	4
High School Graduate    		5
College 				6
College Graduate        		7
Master Degree   			8
Ph.D.   				9
Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
Graduated Magna Cum Laude       	+2

Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction, classic literature,
magazine, etc.)
500-1,000                       	+1
1,000+                  		+2
Just (or mostly) comic books            -1
Just (or mostly) The National Inquirer  -1

Do you/Have you read...
Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1
Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

SOCIAL STATUS
Annual Household Income                         	Score
Below $1,000 (700 pounds)                       	1
$1,000 to $5,000 (700 to 3,000 pounds)                  2
$5,000 to $10,00 (3,000 to 7,000 pounds)                3
$10,00 to $15,000 (7,000 to 10,000 pounds)              4
$15,000 to $20,000 (10,000 to 15,000 pounds)    	5
$20,000 to $30,000 (15,000 to 20,000 pounds)    	6
$30,000 to $50,000 (20,000 to 35,000 pounds)    	7
$50,000 to $75,000 (35,000 to 50,000 pounds)    	8
$75,000 to $100,000 (50,000 to 75,000 pounds)   	9
$100,000 to $500,000 (75,000 to 350,000 pounds) 	10
$500,000+ (350,000 pounds+)                     	11

Do you have any currently famous relative?
(in politics, TV/movies, etc.)
Yes     +1

Have you ever been...
On television or in a movie?    +1
Honored nationally      	+1

Do you play Traveller?
Yes     +1

INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
1.        +1: 4.
2.  +2: Appropriate answer
3.  +3: 9 to 9th power to the 9th power.
             +1: 999.
4.  +4: "N", for Nine. ("O" is One, "T" is Two, "T" is Three, and so on.)
5.  +1: Traveller or Marc Miller's Traveller.
6.  +1: Whoever is giving this test.

PSIONICS
Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or back),
whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of right answers.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #250
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, March 6 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 251



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?
Re: GURPS: Traveller
Re: T4 Stats Test...
Re: Newsgroup request
Re: GURPS: Traveller
re: Re: Xboats and routes
Re: GURPS: Traveller
Re: Xboats and routes
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Why Norris' secret is safe
A question about Droyne...from AM 5
Re: Why are X-Boats only Jump-4?
Re: Starship Expenses
New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry
Re: Starship expenses
Re: ice worlds
Re: Starship Expenses
TNE UPP stat test?
Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"
Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"
Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 12:48:49 -0800
From: "Chris McNeil" <cjmcneil@axion.net>
Subject: Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01BD48FE.35E5FD40
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 Is it just me or are all the TL's missing from the vehicles listed in
"Emperors Vehicles" ???And if the are the does anyone have the official or
even non-official TL's for the vehicles? I mean I can guess that a Grav Tank
armed with a Plasma Cannon is not a TL5 Ind. world vehicle. But other listed
vehicles are not so easy.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01BD48FE.35E5FD40
Content-Type: text/x-vcard;
	name="Chris J. McNeil.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="Chris J. McNeil.vcf"

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:McNeil;Chris;J.
FN:Chris J. McNeil
ORG:Axion Internet;Corperate Sales
TITLE:Sales Supervisor
TEL;WORK;VOICE:687-8030 #113
TEL;WORK;FAX:687-8130
ADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;Main;Suite 201-1190 Hornby =
St.=3D0D=3D0A;Vancouver;BC;v6z 2k5;Canada
LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:Main=3D0D=3D0ASuite 201-1190 =
Hornby St.=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0AVancouver, BC v6z 2k5=3D0D=3D0ACa=3D
nada
URL:
URL:www.axion.net
REV:19980306T204849Z
END:VCARD

- ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01BD48FE.35E5FD40--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 12:01:43 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote

> Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> >I'm plumping for: A Virus infested near c rock, fired by a bunch of lesbian
> >Aslan pirates, who were mislead by Sayat translated orders from the Hiver
> >controlled Templars, sent via a jump torpedo.

> ... rebuilt by Famille Spofulam from derelict Rule of Man TL-14 

I think it probably used TL 13 munitions because 13 = 1 + 3 = 4 which
is, as we all know, highly significant.

> munitions,
> and originally intended to stomp out the sniffly, sickly,

So do you think that they are sickly because of systemic opportunistic
infections caused by their cannibalistic diets ?

> technophobic-genocidal reactionary Vilani oppressors once and for all by
> tapping into Grandfather's telepathic network

Is this the one that they advertise on TV as the Psychic Friends Network
(which despite its name is _not_ a Quaker organization) ?  If yes does
this prove that Yaskodrays network is up and running on contemporary
Earth ?

> and psychically infecting
> them with nasty strains of E. coli.
> 
> > (All characters in this senario
> >were generated using a points based chargen system).

Did this point generation sytem use hexadecimal numbering and math ?

> What about the half-dice?

I am glad you asked because this gives me a chance to explain why
starship life support costs are so high.  In the Third Imperium it is
traditional (que Fiddler on the Roof background Music) for people
travelling on spaceships to randomly determine their diet using special
6 sided dice numbered 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3.  These dice are manufactured by
Sharusid (under their technology patent) to rigourous standards.  They
cost Cr 1 each and each die may be used only once.  Rolling to see what
fork should be used, rolling to see if you will have the groat or the
recycled low passenger who did not make it last trip, rolling to see if
you will have the white wine or the red, etc. are required.  Naturally
those who travel on starhips are symbolically unclean for several days
after the transit and have to continue using the dice.  Thus Imperial
law requires that each passenger and crew person be provided with 1500
of these nonreusable dice at each jump (at Cr 1 each = Cr1500 in life
support expenses).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:04:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: T4 Stats Test...

Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com> writes:

> INTELLIGENCE
> How sharp and perceptive you are; not necessarily knowing a lot of stuff
> (which actually comes closer to Education); mental quickness and
> adaptability; using your mind to maximize the current situation.
        ...
> The subject's Int score starts at 3. Total point value for each
> correct answer to the following questions for final score:
        ...
>    3. What is the biggest number you can make with three digits?

The answer given for this question (9^9^9=1.962271x10^77) may not actually
be correct.  Since no base system was specified, and if we reasonably
restrict ourselves to accepted base systems currently in use, then the
correct answer is F^F^F (hex) =4.173816x10^264.

        - Mark C.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       "Where am I... and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:27:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Newsgroup request

On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> At 10:37 PM 3/6/98 +1300, you wrote:
> >My ISP's newsfeed has just gone down and is unlikely to be back for a week
> >or so. As there are a number of "interesting" traveller related discussions
> >(not sure if thats the right word) currently in progress on
> >rec.games.frp.misc. Could some kind soul please send me anything that is
> >interesting? Thank you.
> 
> You mean other than me and Michael Richter doing our Londo and G'kar
> impersonations?

Egads!  I remember that guy!  (I remember that guy and I haven't even read
r.g.f.m in a year.)  He was... unhappy... with T4.  Yeesh. ;)


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 10:29:32 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller

>Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 07:33:21 -0800
>From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
>Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller

>Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

>>I'm plumping for: A Virus infested near c rock, fired by a bunch of lesbian
>>Aslan pirates, who were mislead by Sayat translated orders from the Hiver
>>controlled Templars, sent via a jump torpedo.

>... rebuilt by Famille Spofulam from derelict Rule of Man TL-14 munitions,
>and originally intended to stomp out the sniffly, sickly,
>technophobic-genocidal reactionary Vilani oppressors once and for all by
>tapping into Grandfather's telepathic network and psychically infecting
>them with nasty strains of E. coli.

...whilst electronically rewriting their genetic code to turn them into
hamsters. All done in order to fund astronomical life support costs.

>> (All characters in this senario
>>were generated using a points based chargen system).

>What about the half-dice?

>Concerned,

it has been replaced in T4.12347854 by a d8/pi raised to the sixth power.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"Avec vous votra limpet mine?"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 16:35:38 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: re: Re: Xboats and routes

Hello Bruce,

At 08:58 AM 3/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>One thing to keep in mind in free-space deep-space xboat locations is that
>thruster plates don't work in free space (or work very poorly); tenders
>have to be custon HEPlaR designs, which complicates logistics still more,
>and makes them fairly vulnerable to kinetic energy weapon attack.
>
>Bruce

  Thanks for pointing out that particular fact <grin>.  As I suspect you
can tell, I tend to think more from the familiar pathway of CT, but point
is well taken.  After noting that the HG rules mandate a required
Powerplant to match the jump drive level, it made me wonder what the Jump-6
boat would look like.  The smallest I could get it to be was a 200 ton
combo, ie Body was 100 Dtons while the jump tank held 100 tons fuel.  I
kept it cannon with the computer taking an ungodly amount of space.  I will
post the varient using my house rule that Computers only take 1 ton
regardless of type (so as to keep with the fact that computers seem to be
getting more complex and better able without getting bigger).
  Then, once I get over my "phobia" with the FF&S2 rules, I will try to
create a similar ship for use with the newer incarnation...

        Hal

PS - my phobia is more due to the confusion about structure of hull and the
structural values than anything else <Grin>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 13:36:35 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller

Wed, 04 Mar 98 22:12:29 -0600, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
[Regarding Dulinor's accident...]
> I'm hoping that Loren *doesn't* explain exactly what happened and why...

Probably the way to go...

> Just about *anything* could have happened. 
[list deleted] 
> Whatever you want. ;->

Or maybe, while the great Dulinor is on his way to shatter the
Imperium and change the course or history in all of kown space,
he is killed simply because a technician was too busy mooning
over some woman and forgot to close a damper on the fusion chamber.

[Couldn't you see see that Arnold character from Red Dwarf (I forget
his last name) screwing up the assination of the Emporer though his
imcompetance :-)]

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:22:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, SD Mooney wrote:

> Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com> wrote:
> 
> >The only rationale I can think of is that Book 2 uses a lot of "off the shelf"
> >equipment that is cheaper than military custom builts in HG.
> 
> Don't forget the great big dedicated data processing and transmission
> computer systems in the cargo bay...

How much *does* that equipment cost (per dt), anyway?  I don't want to
open up a debate on capacity, though.  :)


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 16:58:43 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

Hello Simon,
  I snipped all of your response, pressed for time <grin>.  But the gist of
what I wanted to remark upon, is that every ship is presumed to have
"compressors" in order to evacuate their atmosphere before battle and so
forth.  While the equipment is not listed as such in ships, they have to be
there as part of the "background" equipment not listed...

    <grin>

    Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 15:11:54 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why Norris' secret is safe

On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Mark Seemann wrote:

> When Norris then announces his elevation to archduke, a quick analysis
> will show that going public with the fact that it could be a fraud would
> only destabilize the domain, as contenders to the position would come
> forward. A mini civil war might even take place. 
> 
> Also, there's the fact that noone with the advance knowledge can be
> certain that the appointment to archduke isn't real. They can only
> suspect that very much. 
> 
> Thus, among those who know in advance, it's in noones interest to
> publicize the secret - not even the Duchess Delphine, who is described
> as somewhat opposed to Norris' politics, but a very pragmatic leader. 
> 

And the big one...even if you suspect it greatly, no one has _any_ proof
to the contrary. Norris could well have gotten a private advance notice
months ago from Strephon: 

"Norris, 

Old boy, get yourself ready for more work and a fancier uniform.
I'm going to appoint you Archduke next XXX day. 

Yrs Strephon"

There's no reason that anyone would have seen this as out of the
ordinary, other than it was a strictly eyes-only message for Norris from
Strephon.

So despite anyones suspicion that Norris elevated himself, without proof,
imposible to get proof, at that, a rational person isn't going to make
accusations against the ruling Archduke, particularly in times of
war...lesse now...is that sedition, or treason? Or both? 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:14:04 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: A question about Droyne...from AM 5

I'm busy working on my Traveller software suite (which should be beta-ready
by next week, I hope...) and I got a question...

I'm working on the random encounter portion, and just got done with the
Droyne tables from Alien Module 8...entry 41 is for 1D Kweenoyjyetin....what
the $&%^ are Kweenoyjyetin?

I thought for a minute that it might have been the "deathless", but they're
Krinaytsyuni. Anyone (esp. Marc) know what Kweenoyjyetin are (or are
supposed to be, if a typo...)

Thanks...

If you're at all interested in more information about the software I'm
developing, please email me so I don't clutter up the mailing list...

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your  |
| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your |
| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love     |
| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your  |
| lives be blessed by the beauty that has touched mine.              |
|                    - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 09:42:44 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Why are X-Boats only Jump-4?

Walter G. Smith wrote:
> 
> Hal wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> The only real comment I have about the J-4 routes overall, is that they
> seem to be inefficient.  If communications is the issue here, and speed is
> important, then the highest form of efficiency would seem to be called for.
> 
> <<snip>>
> 
>   It does occur to me as well, that there can be "official" X-boats and
> unofficial X-boats.  The unofficial boats are created by private
> governments to link up to official x-boats in order to speed up their
> turnaround times...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It is probable that megacorporations adopted an unofficial x-boat sytem
as well in order to move company directives etc. at high speed to branch
operations. The system wouldn't have been so elaborate, but IMO equally
as efficient.
 
> IIRC, CT Traders & Gunboats mentioned that the average jump performed
> by X-Boats was only a little over Jump-3 - that is, the route would have the
> occaisional Jump-4 but would be mostly Jump-3's.
> 
> It isn't the Jump rating that makes the X-Boat system so fast, btw - it's the
> turnaround.

Yes. And as I read it, if a jump-1 was necessary to get an urgent
message to a system not on the x-boat route, a scout courier would be
despatched ASAP to facilitate (Supp 9, pg 11, line 4). Remember that the
x-boat system and courier services were both field operations under the
general control of the Communications branch and indirectly the
operations branch of the Imperial scouts. The x-boat only required 1
crew (but had 2 staterooms to be able to carry a VIP if necessary), and
IMO that crew person would have been highly screened and tested to make
sure he was absolutely and inalterably loyal to the head of state,
government of the day, and the esprit de corp of the scout organization,
and would be trusted to deliver, un-opened, VI messages (Oh, the hooks
of counter-espionage).
      
>A merchant ship carrying mail, it jumps in-system, refuels,
> transits to the Starport, unloads cargo, etc.etc.etc - it may spend a week or 
> two between jumps.
> 
> An X-Boat, on the other hand, hands off it's messages as soon as it arrives
> in-system, to another X-Boat

supp 7, pg 8 says 'relays messages to the station on arrival, and then
waits to be picked up by the tender, to be refuelled and sent on its
way  with a new load of messages' (which are received, encoded and
transmitted to the tender by the (mainworld) station for further
transfer to the appropriate x-boat or scout courier as necessary.)

>that may be leaving within the HOUR.
> Even if both the merchant and the X-Boat are only doing 2-parsec jumps,
> the X-Boat is still twice as fast.
> 
> Back to the Jump-4 routes - it may be that efficiency was compromised in return for
> cost savings and availability of support facilities. There may also have been any amount
> of political wrangling - imagine the economic benefits of being directly on an X-Boat
> route. Starport upgrades, information services, heightened interest from commercial
> concerns - these prizes would lead many members of the nobility or other planetary leaders
> to twist a few arms.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised of SuSAG or Hortalez et Cie had their own couriers, with their own
> information routes. Some of them might even be Jump-6...
> 
> Walt Smith

Yep. I agree again. With their probable monetary and political clout, I
don't see that it would have been too hard to supply some of the needed
capital to produce the x-boats in whatever configuration, in exchange
for the ability to be able to use the scout tender facilities for
dispatch and retrieval.  Tender como specialist "Captain, we have a MX
off starboard fully serviced. It is a SuSag boat and we do have an
urgent message for ............ Should I contact them to see if we can
use it, and if they have any data that is going to the same place."

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 09:52:22 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

Walter G. Smith wrote:


> Unless, as someone mentioned previously, your Steward is cooking the books
> more than she's cooking the food....  :)

"But, but, Sir....The captain made me do it. He told me flat out...just
do it.  I'm a really honest person.......". A short time later, in his
mind he thinks/says "You lousy SOB....10 years for such a little
thing....jeez, the guy was a mark and worth zillions...."

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 11:12:09 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

All the talk on x-boats, scouts, traders has got me wondering how many
ship captains would be required to file a *flight* plan and who would be
responsible to ensure that it in fact happend the way it was planned.
Let's say a very important piece of medical paraphanalia is required on
such and such world. Sam's trader is in port ready to go, and has the
room to take it. Port authority commandeers his ship to make the
delivery. Sam agrees, for a price. He / the authority lays out a route
(let's say it involves 2 or 3 jumps). Sam leaves.
If Sam doesn't make it to each and every stop along the way (miss-jump,
piracy, theft, better deal elsewhere, whatever), or if Sam doesn't
return to the original port (takes another job, doesn't have a home
port, needs a holiday), how will anyone know whether or not the article
was delivered, or what and when may have happened along the way to
prevent it.
I assume the institute at the other end would be complaining bitterly if
it didn't show up in a reasonable time after request, or may institute
search routines when it didn't show after having been told it was to be
shipped on such and such date. 
Port authority controls arrivals and departures of in system ships, but
I don't recall them having any data of what they should be expecting.
This may have been previously discussed but I wasn't privy to the
discussions so I value and solicit your opinion's and comments?? 

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 10:39:14 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
 
>Shouldn't the rules allow PCs to run whatever risks they chose?

The BIG question.  The correct answer is, IMO,  yes.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:28:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: ice worlds

Bruce Alan Macintosh writes: 

>>what defines
>>a vacume world?  Absolutely no atmosphere?  What constitutes a "trace"
>>atmosphere?
>
>I would say that Mars is "trace" - it has an atmosphere with measurable
>effects, but there's no way to breath it without a pressure suit.

   In Traveller terms probably somewhere between trace and very thin.  The
Traveller definition is that if you could breathe the air with a compressor,
its very thin.  I don't know that any man-portable device could make the air
breathable on Mars, so I would say 'Trace' for that reason.

   The game sidesteps the issue by having a terraforming project underway
that makes Mars' atmosphere solidly very thin, approaching thin (I recall
some technician in a TNS item talking about hoping to see a genuine
thunderstorm on Mars during her lifetime).

>The moon (and Europa) are vacuum - their "atmospheres" are matters of 
>scientific curiosity rather than having any practical effects.

   In Traveller terms, the Moon (Luna) is a true vacuum "world".  As for
Europa (which I'm recalling also had oxygen in its "air" due to photo
disassociation of water molecules) would probably be counted as 'Trace', as
would Io's atmosphere.  It's a tough call really, since I don't even think
World Builder's Handbook put a lower limit on what should be labelled
'Trace' (I am prepared to be wrong since I don't have it sitting in front of
me at the moment).  In game terms 'Trace' versus 'Vacuum' really doesn't
have any effects good or bad either way, so you could flip a coin to decide
and still be OK.

Regards,

Harold
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 16:54:50 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

Hello Anders,

>I way to save the rediculously high "lifesupport" costs in Traveller is
>stating that this cost include an mandatory insurance for the
>passenger/crew. If he gets sick, hurt, etc and the person or relatives try
>suing the ass off the shipowner the insurance cover it (or parts of it).
>The relatively low price for LowPssg life support covers only funeral
>expenses and whatnot when the unlucky customer buys it.
>
>OK?

As modern day goes, I seem to recall that insurance is strictly a passenger
option, not a carrier option - meaning that the passenger must pay the
costs if he desires to be covered.  It also doesn't explain why the crew
members must also pay for the same "benefits".  But your response means you
are thinking in ways that I wasn't - which is why I love mailing lists -
someone finds the things that I miss <grin>.  Thanks for your participation...

     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:23:01 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: TNE UPP stat test?

There was a TNE UPP stat test?  Does anyone have it still?  I would be most
appreciative to the kind soul who could forward it to me or point me to it.
I've checked under lots of rocks and have come up empty handed... Thanks!

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 18:35:16 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"

Robert Eaglestone wrote:

> PSIONICS
> Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or back),
> whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of right answers.

Except that most coins are heavier one one side than the other, usually the
'heads'.
Better to use something like a poker chip with a mark on one side.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 18:38:13 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"

Robert Eaglestone wrote:

> PSIONICS
> Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or back),
> whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of right answers.

(Oops.  Sent that post too fast.)

This would only indicate precognition.

For mind reading:  have a several different people look at a playing card and
concentrate on the card.  The number or correct guesses would correlate to
telepathy / read surface thoughts.

For teleportation:  have someone shout "Jump!"  If they don't immediately move
fast in some direction, they don't have that discipline.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 19:00:08 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

Hello Jim,
  As idle speculation, suppose the port authorities and Imperial
authorities mandate that starship arrivals and departures are included
with the daily information packets that are to be sent via X-boat routes.
Said information is to be forwarded to maybe a Scout base as a means for
collecting the data, and refining it.  Anomalies are to be sent further
down the line to Naval Intelligence and Law enforcement officials.  Really
important stuff is to be sent to the capital of the sector, or even to the
Emperor himself...
  In this manner, all that is needed for the information flow is:

Departures at a world...

Location:
Departure date:
Destination:
Ship name:
Ship registry ID:


Arrivals at a world...

Location:
Arrival date:
Ship name:
Ship registry ID:

  Anyone who has a need for that information applies at the office and can
get it as an Archived piece of information presuming of course, that the
information is available.  However, if the data is being sent in secure
data cartidges, then download into data retrieval systems should be
minimal.

  The biggest problem overall is then...  How does one store all this
information, and how long is the data to be preserved before it is purged
so as to make room for other incoming information?  

  In any case, to get back to your original comment.  Suppose Ship A is
leaving port in 3 days.  It has filed a flight plan that it will be
arriving at Planet Destination in 10 days.  You as a shipper, might send
mail via normal mail packet, to your destination now, indicating that Ship
A is scheduled to arrive in 10 days, please notify if said ship does not
arrive within 1 day of schedule.  At Planet Destination, they wait for the
ship to arrive.  It doesn't show.  They send mail complaining it did not
show.  You get either confirmation that it did not arrive on time, within
7 days of the expected arrival... 
  In the mean time...
  Ship A absconded with the cargo, and is in the process of dodging the
bank payments.  It jumped to Planet Other.  Before the Jump, the crew
memebers jimmied the transponder, and rigged up false identity documents.
They jump in system, and identify themselves as the fake ship.  The data
of their ship's ID is fed into the "net" and sent down the line.  However
<grin>, there are no planets within range of planet Other, with
information regarding the "fake" Id.  Thus, we have an arrival without a
departure co-tag.  Consequently, the computer picks it out as an anomaly,
and the information is sent down the line.  Eventually, this information
is sent via X-boat route, via the "paper" trail left by the ship, and a
"plot" is made as to the general heading... and those planets are warned
to be on the lookout for ships that match the description of...

  Now, to be really nasty as a GM?  Require that all flight plans be filed
1 day prior to actual jumps, or said ship will not be allowed to lift from
the hiport/lowport.  Information is sent in advance to the destination.
The destination port then places that ship's ID in the "expected arrival
list".  Ships that arrive in port without being on the "expected arrival
list" are automatically suspect, and intensely scrutinized...

  As you can see, requiring flight plans in advance as part of the
"normal" routine of civilized space, can make things difficult for
adventurers further down the line.  Every time a PC captain wants to
arrive at a planet without having filed a flight plan, he runs the risk of
being very carefully looked over by the authorities.  Sooner or later,
some X-boat will arrive ahead of him with HOLD orders, and his goose will
be cooked.

  And lest people say "but the ship doesn't have to land at port, it can
refuel at a gas Giant", let me remind you that it isn't difficult to have
a patrol near a gas Giant along with orders to automatically note arriving
ships, take down their Transponder ID, and check it against the
"authorized arrival" list. <Grin>.

   Hal

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #251
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Friday, March 6 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 252



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Starship Expenses
Planetary Inertia
Re:Solomani & Vargr alike?
X-boats
Captain's life
Re: Stat Test
Re: Solomani & Vargr alike?
Re: World/System Generation Tables
Re: World/System Generation Tables
Re: GURPS: Traveller
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Captain's life
Re: A question about Droyne...from AM 5
Re: GURPS: Traveller
Re: Captain's life
Re: X-boats
Re: Captain's life
Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 16:00:28 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

At 03:45 PM 3/6/98 +0000, James Lindsey wrote:
>High Passage is a status symbol, just like 1st class is today.  You do not
>necessarily get anything "substantial" over those lower paying passengers,
>except the recognition that you've got money to burn.  If you want people
>to think you're rich/famous/powerful/influencal/etc. by travelling 1st
>class, it costs MONEY.

Not quite true, in my opinion, though you may have better information than
I do.  Today, the differences between first and coach classes are pretty
minor, if you look only at air travel.  Given the relatively cheap price of
air travel, it dies a great deal of people movement, and thus other
transportation systems have had their total passenger range crimped down
tremendously.  In Traveller, starships take over what most of us would
consider the roles of ships, trains, and planes, and thus there is easily a
lot of room for different classes.

Take a look at the luxury portrayed in Titanic, for a better example.  I
was recently looking at the luxury levels in the QE2, and the levels are
quite close together, since people do not cruise on that vessel for a
simple, cheap Atlantic crossing nowadays, so it does not even have an
equivalent of steerage/third class passage.  Back just sixty years, there
was a world of difference between steerage and first class, in meals,
services, space per passenger, and so on.  Having your own private
promenade deck, which six cabins on the QE2 do, is quite a luxury.  These
promenades are, if my sources are accurate, about half the size of the kind
that would have been on a top flight vessel of sixty years ago.
Further, the ratio of crew to passengers is much, much higher in the higher
classes, because higher class tickets involve much more running about.
This is something that is not true today, because first class tickets and
coach are only being bought for flights that may hit 14 hours, and usually
are 2-6.  In the present day, there just is not that much difference,
because how much more trouble can someone be when they are not permitted to
move around much, and they will be off the plane in three hours.  When you
have to put up with them for 9 days, they can be a problem.

I do not argue that the primary benefit of first class may well be the
ability to flash that expensive ticket, but I think the secondary benefits
can loom quite large given the amount of time people stay on board.  I
have, though, scarfed the idea, and raises the price on my own first class
passengers.

On my ships, the default ceiling height is 2.4 meters, with a 0.6 meter
deck space.  (Usually, the 0.6 meter 'tween deck space becomes a bulkhead a
few cm. thick, and an access way perhaps 1.1 meters high every other deck,
but other arrangements are possible.)

IMTU, I am thinking of the following sizes:

High - the lap of luxury, including many dedicated human/robot servitors,
as well as private promenades and suites, and all sorts of other goodies.
This is how nobles and TAS members travel, and it is far outside the
experience of normal people.

Luxury - Luxurious travel, which involves the same amenities as Middle
travel, but gives a single occupancy large double room.


Middle - Comfortable travel, which involves either large double rooms or
small single rooms.

Low - Acceptable travel, usually implemented as double occupancy small
staterooms.  Military officers expect this.  Typical civilian officers and
enlisted expect this as well.

Steerage - Not very luxurious travel, usually involving four to a small
stateroom in bunks, but with reasonable common areas.  Military enlisted
travel this way.

I am VERY open to argument on these sizes, as they are rather off the cuff.

Space is in m^3
Crew - the number of passengers per crew member
SR - stateroom space per person
CA - common area space per person
WS - Waste space per person
Cargo - cargo allotment
Total - space used on board for the vessel as a whole for a single
passenger of this class

Class		Cost	Crew	SR		CA		WS		CR		Total
Cargo		20		-		-		-		-
Frozen:	50		50		1.9		-		-		0.1		2
Steerage:	250		50		3.5		4.5		1		1		10
Low:		500		25		7		9		2		2		20
Middle:	1KCr	10		14		18		4		4		40
Luxury	2KCr	10		28		36		8		8		80
High:		10KCr	5		56		72		16		16		160

Note 1: crew salaries are based on the assumption that the average starship
crew member makes between 10KCr and 30KCr, as the very wealthy usually did
not become that way by serving drinks on a starship, thus even luxury class
adds only 15KCr/25 trips, or ~60Cr/trip.

Note 2: The profit margin on virtually all passenger traffic is roughly
20%, not counting life support, crew costs, and so on, above the use of the
space as pure cargo.  This covers the risk of having to pay a steward and
having to commit to a schedule.

Note 3: High passage tickets are more profitable, in that they cost roughly
3200 to the ship for lost cargo space, plus another few hundred for
salaries, and perhaps another few hundred for meals, yet bring in 10KCr.
This is compensated for by the difficulty of filling those high passage
staterooms.

Note 4: I have vastly more common area than the usual traveller rules
indicate.  This represents my take on the somewhat more communal feel of
the 3I.

Example: Lord Froederich is moving from one world to another.  He is
bringing his wife, his two children, their two servants, and their
nursemaid.  While the servants are technically Low tickets, the space they
occupy is likely part of Froederich's suite.  Thus, they pay 41,500Cr for
their tickets.  They occupy a 245 cubic meter (~81 m^2, or 735 square foot)
space, and have access to a 288 M^3 common area, thus if there are a dozen
such suites, they have more than enough room for a ballroom and observation
deck.  The servants have access to 13.5 m^3 of common space, shared with
other low tickets.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri,  6 Mar 98 23:52:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Planetary Inertia

If you didn't see my previous thank you for the help with what proof of alcohol
you can do nasty things with, than please accept them now. ;)

    That said... <grin>
    Last night my players and I squeezed in an extra session and durring on of
the breaks one of my two Lady Players, who's hard science background is
functionally nil.  Made the connection between force and moving things and then
asked if a big enough "BANG" could make the Earth shift in it's orbit, or the
Moon for that matter.  Obvious, OC it would if the "BANG" overcomes the
planetary inertia.  <SIGH> Then she asked us how MUCH of a "BANG" would be
required to do it.

    Not having figures handy at that moment, and I'm not at all certain how an
atmosphere would effect this, I begged off answering until the next session.
But this obviously has implications to Traveller, and given the joy so many on
this list take in blowing things up already... <GRIN> I thought I'd pass the
question along and see how the experts would answer it!

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Fri,  6 Mar 98 23:51:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Re:Solomani & Vargr alike?

On Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:24:34 "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> Wrote...
>> With all this in mind, I suspect that the Solomani are looked apon as
>> only slightly less chaotic than the Vargr by everyone else.  Thoughts?
> Or maybe the Solomani are thought to be more stable than the Vargr, but
> not much?
    Perhaps, but given their propensity to, err... Crash, spectacularly in a
socitial kind of way.  Not to mention that love of uncontrolled, unhindered,
unchecked technological growth.  Nevermind the strange and downright Kinky
things they DO with technology.  Perhaps there might be a trend to think that
you should treat Solomani in the same way you'd treat a wolf?
    I don't know, thoughts from the list here?

> All in all, its a great idea.  Makes sense.  Works.  Just one fault,
> with the power that the Solomani have would they not just shoot someone
> for saying this?
    Not all Solomani are in the Solomani Sphere of influence. ;) They're
scattered amongst the populations of the Imperium and beyond! <grin>

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 20:04:55 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: X-boats

Hello Folks,
  Before I undertook to re-organize the X-boat routes, I decided to create
the boat/ships themselves.

  As was already noted, CT mandates that a powerplant equal in value or
better must be on board the ship for it to be jump capable, which rules
out the first Jump-6 100 ton ship example that was sent in.  Since then, I
have revised my "engineering call" for the smallest x-boat ships based
upon the best technology has to offer at the time of design.
Consequently, the following paramters were in effect:

Ton of cargo space allocated for carrying mail:    1
Tons allocated to bridge:                         20
Tons allocated to  stateroom:                      4
Totals for minimum mandated allocation:           25 tons.

Then the next minimum requirement to be met is the Computer.  For those
who use the full Classic rules of Computers takeing up progressively
larger volume, the volumes required would be either 4,5, or 7 tons for
computers rated at 4,5, or 6 (required in order to run Jump 4, jump 5, or
jump 6 programs).  Thus:

Jump 6 minimum requirements are 32 tons
Jump 5 minimum requirements are 30 tons
Jump 4 minimum requirements are 29 tons

This leaves me with the task of designing the ships outright.  Ok, before
I unveil my "designs" via HG rules, I would like to point out one "short
cut" that while legal, was probably not given much thought.  According to
the High Guard rules, the fuel calculations for powerplants is based upon
4 weeks duration.  Thus, a powerplant 4 would require .04 times the ship's
volume for fuel that would last 4 weeks.  I chose to cut that down to a
duration of 2 weeks.  Reason?  According to JTAS (don't recall what issue
exactly), there was a rule that ships could powerdown and operate at a
level 1 powerplant rating despite the powerplant rating be a 4.  In short,
this ruling pointed out the logical assumptions that fuel consumptions can
be taylored to need.  Thus, a Jump 4 powerplant may be required to power
up at level 4 for an entire week while in Jumpspace, but if the ship is
only cruising at 1 G manuever, it wouldn't need the full output of the
level 4 powerplant, just at level 1.  Having said that, I only used half
the volume of fuel suggested by HIGH GUARD.

  Now, on with the analysis.  The Minimum required volume for a jump drive
at Jump 6 is .07 Ship's volume.  Power is equal to powerplant of 6 times
.01 (or .06) of the ship's volume.  Last but not least.  Fuel required is
equal to Jump times .1 times ship's volume plus powerplant value times .01
times volume divided by 2 (for only two weeks operation of fuel).  A
maneuver drive rated at 1G will add an additional .02 times ship's volume.
Grand total?  The Jump-6 ship requires that 78% of the ship be allocated
to Jump-6 equipment plus 32 tons for the minimum required statistics.

Using similar math on the other ships, I arrived at the following:

Jump 6 ships:  78%   jump related + 32 tons
Jump 5 ships:  70.5% jump related + 30 tons
Jump 4 ships:  57%   jump related + 29 tons

  As a result, I created a 150 ton jump 6 ship
                           105 ton jump 5 ship
                           100 ton jump 4 ship

Please note that these ships can either be built as 100 ton ships with the
remaining volume required as Drop tank volume, or they can be built as
150, 105, and 100 ton hulls.  I prefer the latter option, because it
permits the x-boats to function without need of the drop tanks, and be
less vulnerable to lack of drop tanks etc.  

Jump 6 X-boat:            Volume     Cost in Mcr
150 ton Wedge hull:         0            18.00 
Bridge                     20             0.75 
Stateroom x 1               4             0.50
Cargo hold                  2             0.00
Computer                    7            55.00
Fuel tank                  94.5           0.00
Jump 6 Drive               10.5          42.00
Manuever 1g drive           3             4.50
Power 6 plant               9            27.00

Totals:                   150.0         147.75
Discounted:                             118.20


Jump 5 X-boat:            Volume     Cost in Mcr
105 ton Wedge Hull:         0            12.60
Bridge                     20             0.525
Stateroom x 1               4             0.50
Cargo hold                  1.975         0.00
Computer                    5            45.00
Fuel                       55.125         0.00
Jump 5 drive                6.3          25.20
Manuever 1g drive           2.1           3.15
Power 5 plant              10.5          31.50

Totals:                   105.0         118.475
Discounted:                              94.78

Jump 4 X-boat:            Volume     Cost in Mcr
100 ton Wedge Hull          0            12.00
Bridge                     20             0.5
Stateroom x 1               4             0.5
Cargo Hold                 15             0.00
Computer Mk4                4            30.00
Fuel                       42             0.00
Jump 4 Drive                5            20.00
Manuever 1g drive           2             3.00
Power 4 plant               8            24.00

Totals:                   100            90.00
Discounted:                              72.00

  I didn't bother to give these ships class names, nor did I bother to
upgrade the internals of the Jump 4 X-boat.  As far as I am concerned, one
could easily place another 3 staterooms in there and still have cargo
space of 3 tons for the mail.  Also, this ship could easily be left as it
is, and become a small freighter carrier and be used as a muster out
benefit for the scout service.  Since I detailed the proceedure I used for
creating these class ships, I will leave you, the reader, to design what I
consider a vital intermediary route Jump 3 X-boat.  The reason I think
such a ship would be a viable addition to the Scout/courier system?  Every
Jump Ship 6 that exists, would likely require "feeder" ships that can
reach planets that are exactly 1/2 the distance to a nearby X-boat
depot...

   Hope you enjoy this.  If I can work up the enthusiasm for creating
similar stats for Megatraveller Rules, I will so do.  If I may?  Perhaps
people can create the T4.1 versions of these ships.
  By the way, by including the manuever drives in these ships, the 1000
ton X-boat Tender is no longer a viable option.  Much as I suspect you
would hate me for saying this, but since the original X-boat ships were
illegal by even the rules of Book 2 starships, the X-boat Tenders really
should not exist as a class.

   Respectfully submitted,
     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 20:25:28 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Captain's life

Hello Folks,
  Just a few thoughts that were prompted by the fellow who made a nice
analysis of the different levels of passage...

  Suppose you have a captain on board a ship.  Further suppose he has to
live on board that ship.  Further speculate that he never lives at a Hotel
or whatnot unless the ship is in Maintenance for two weeks.  Just how much
space is he really going to want versus need for his "living" quarters?
Assume that the average number of jumps said captain makes is 25 per year.
Further assume that each jump is actually 8 days spent on board the ship.
This equates to 200 days staring at a room that is roughly 10 x 12 x 8
(when he's not busy elsewhere like the bridge or other parts of the ship)!
How would you arrange that room?  What would you want in it?  How likely
could you survive living in that room for 200 or so days.  Those 200 days
are days he can't get away from the ship.  Groundside, he can at least
head out side for his entertainment/socialization needs, but what about
his enforced time inside?
  Just trying to get into the mindset of such a man... I almost suspect
that maybe a Captain's cabin on a free tramp would be 1.5 or even 2 times
larger than a normal stateroom...

    Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 21:07:32 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Stat Test

Kagehira wrote:

>         A member requested a copy of this, since I can't remember the address, I'll
> repost it to the list:
>
> A lot of Traveller Fans have been asking about the Traveller test performed
> at GEN CON last year.  So here is your chance to make a character based on
> your stats.
>
> STRENGTH
> Subject holds an 8-pound barbell in one hand with the arm extended fully,
> straight away from the body and parallel to the floor.

How would this change for a 20lb barbell (don't have a 8lb. one handy).Plus, I would
think that for such a small weight, these times really measure endurance (at least how
fast your muscles react to anerobic activity and lactic acid build up).

Bloo

>         Time                    Score
>         0-1 second              2
>         up to 5 seconds         3
>         15 seconds              4
>         30 seconds              5
>         45 seconds              6
>         1 minute                7
>         1 minute 15 seconds     8
>         1 minute 30 seconds     9
>         2 minutes               10
>         3 minutes               11
>         4 minutes               12
>         5 minutes               13
>         6 minutes               14
>         7 minutes               15

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 98 19:57:13 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Solomani & Vargr alike?

On 03/05/98 at 05:24 PM,  "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> said:

>Or maybe the Solomani are thought to be more stable than the Vargr, but
>not much?

>All in all, its a great idea.  Makes sense.  Works.  Just one fault, with
>the power that the Solomani have would they not just shoot someone for
>saying this?

So, what makes you think anybody says it to a Solo's face?  Behind their
backs and to each other whenever the "jumped up", inbred, psycho Solomani
scum aren't around the Vilini probably say that and much worse. Who says
there isn't any racism in the Imperium?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:14:16 EST
From: SW Mego <SWMego@aol.com>
Subject: Re: World/System Generation Tables

										

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:15:50 EST
From: SW Mego <SWMego@aol.com>
Subject: Re: World/System Generation Tables



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 18:17:49 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller

Fri, 06 Mar 1998 13:36:35 -0800, "David P. Summers"
<summers@alum.mit.edu>

> Wed, 04 Mar 98 22:12:29 -0600, eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
> [Regarding Dulinor's accident...]
> > I'm hoping that Loren *doesn't* explain exactly what happened and why...
> 
> Probably the way to go...
> 
> > Just about *anything* could have happened. 
> [list deleted] 
> > Whatever you want. ;->

> Or maybe, while the great Dulinor is on his way to shatter the
> Imperium and change the course or history in all of kown space,
> he is killed simply because a technician was too busy mooning
> over some woman and forgot to close a damper on the fusion chamber.

> [Couldn't you see see that Arnold character from Red Dwarf (I forget
> his last name) screwing up the assination of the Emporer though his
> imcompetance :-)]

Arnold Rimmer!  That was his name!  Can't you just see Rimmer
screwing up and blowing up a ship to change the course of
history?

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 98 20:18:25 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

I think 2kCr per week is too high as well.  Here's my swag...

  10 Filters for air

  10 Filters for water

   0 Possibly fuel for heat sources (heat isn't a problem..cooling might
            be, but it's part of running the ship)

  10 replacement parts for crucial components such as fans and such (but
           this rightfully belongs in the maintenance section...)

 210 Food:  fresh and frozen along with vacuum sealed packages.  (30Cr
            per day, that's ~$50 a day...I could live on that ;-)

  10 Water (water shouldn't cost anything, being fuel and O2 combined,
            keeping it pure might, but just to have a reserve we'll say
            you carry along some bottled water)
            
  10 Atmosphere (Oxygen and nitrogen, not the gases really the cost of
            keeping them pure, mixed, and available.  I know the filter
            is already mentioned, but a little wiggle room isn't a
            problem.)

  10 Consumables such as toiletries (most people would supply their own,
            but having *some* is a good thing)
  
  10 Consumables such as toliet paper (and that's a lot)
  
  20 Cleaning, laundry, etc.
 ---
 300 Cr per person per week
 
Tack on an extra 15-20% just in case I'm off or missing something and you
get approximately 350Cr (or 50Cr/per day) and that still looks quite high,
but sure beats 2kCr.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:45:51 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Captain's life

Hal wrote:

>  Suppose you have a captain on board a ship.  Further suppose he has to
>live on board that ship.  Further speculate that he never lives at a Hotel
>or whatnot unless the ship is in Maintenance for two weeks.  Just how much
>space is he really going to want versus need for his "living" quarters?
>Assume that the average number of jumps said captain makes is 25 per year.
>Further assume that each jump is actually 8 days spent on board the ship.
>This equates to 200 days staring at a room that is roughly 10 x 12 x 8
>(when he's not busy elsewhere like the bridge or other parts of the ship)!
>How would you arrange that room?  What would you want in it?  How likely
>could you survive living in that room for 200 or so days.  Those 200 days
>are days he can't get away from the ship.  Groundside, he can at least
>head out side for his entertainment/socialization needs, but what about
>his enforced time inside?
>  Just trying to get into the mindset of such a man... I almost suspect
>that maybe a Captain's cabin on a free tramp would be 1.5 or even 2 times
>larger than a normal stateroom...

Assuming late 20th century North American standards of personal living
space, and how one uses it, are carried forward into the 5Xth century, I
agree.  On the other hand, there's no compelling reason why they should.
Personal living space is not intrinsically desireable.  I don't have any
problem at all with career ship crews regarding 10x12 foot cabins as normal
and "just right" -- it's more than I had growing up most of the time, and
would still suit me fine now.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:45:46 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: A question about Droyne...from AM 5

Andrew Akins wrote:

>I'm working on the random encounter portion, and just got done with the
>Droyne tables from Alien Module 8...entry 41 is for 1D Kweenoyjyetin....what
>the $&%^ are Kweenoyjyetin?
>
>I thought for a minute that it might have been the "deathless", but they're
>Krinaytsyuni. Anyone (esp. Marc) know what Kweenoyjyetin are (or are
>supposed to be, if a typo...)

They're the swishy, lisping Droyne who were thrown out of their oytrips for
redecorating in lurid color schemes not chosen by the coynes and for
over-manicuring their claws.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:49:35 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

>>... rebuilt by Famille Spofulam from derelict Rule of Man TL-14 munitions,
>>and originally intended to stomp out the sniffly, sickly,
>>technophobic-genocidal reactionary Vilani oppressors once and for all by
>>tapping into Grandfather's telepathic network and psychically infecting
>>them with nasty strains of E. coli.
>
>...whilst electronically rewriting their genetic code to turn them into
>hamsters. All done in order to fund astronomical life support costs.

No, no, no.  That view really isn't tenable when examined in the light of
the cold, hard facts.

I'm right now putting the final daring swirls and curliques of logic onto
my grand expose' of the REAL, PLAIN, UNVARNISHED HORRIBLE TRUTH:  Plan "Y"
From Outer Space.  Let's say it involves the "Innsmouth taint", genetic
programming by email, prehensile genitalia, the Great Old Ones, what REALLY
happened to JFK (Grassy Knoll = K'kree grazing/vantage point; book
depository = covert AAB field office), the "Fungi From Yuggoth" (i.e.,
Eskaloyt), the pocket universe of R'lyeh (Regina : R'lyeh -- see?), the
coming invasion of the "Hounds of Tindalos" (Tindalos = Droyne name for the
planet humans call "Lair"), the chilling truth behind the Santa Claus
myth-cycle, the Empress Wave, proof that the Templars have it all wrong,
nude pictures of the Five Sisters (hubba hubba!), and evidence that
Hitler's brain is alive and well and controls both SolSec and SuSAG
(obviously) while Stalin has been cloned and seizes power in the Domain of
Deneb, unaware of his ancient blood foe on the other end of the Imperium...
and I finally have an explanation for all those crossdressing Elvis
sightings, too.

Oh, you'll WISH that They were trying to turn you into hamsters.  Oh, how
you'll wish, my friends!

What's even better is that there's no mention of near-C rocks, reactionless
drives, pirates, fighters, or acronyms for calendrical conventions.

Of course, the C.O.N.S.P.I.R.A.C.Y. is going to try to silence me, but FAT CHANC

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 21:59:53 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

HAL wrote:

> Hello Folks,
>   Just a few thoughts that were prompted by the fellow who made a nice
> analysis of the different levels of passage...
>
>   Suppose you have a captain on board a ship.  Further suppose he has to
> live on board that ship.  Further speculate that he never lives at a Hotel
> or whatnot unless the ship is in Maintenance for two weeks.  Just how much
> space is he really going to want versus need for his "living" quarters?
> Assume that the average number of jumps said captain makes is 25 per year.
> Further assume that each jump is actually 8 days spent on board the ship.
> This equates to 200 days staring at a room that is roughly 10 x 12 x 8
> (when he's not busy elsewhere like the bridge or other parts of the ship)!
> How would you arrange that room?  What would you want in it?  How likely
> could you survive living in that room for 200 or so days.  Those 200 days
> are days he can't get away from the ship.  Groundside, he can at least
> head out side for his entertainment/socialization needs, but what about
> his enforced time inside?
>   Just trying to get into the mindset of such a man... I almost suspect
> that maybe a Captain's cabin on a free tramp would be 1.5 or even 2 times
> larger than a normal stateroom...

My character is the captain in our PBEM game.  She's got a study and a large
stateroom to herself.   However, she spends a great deal of time scrubbing
decks and cooking for the crew.  She isn't a flight crew type captain, she
just makes sure she's got the experts where they're needed and makes sure
everyone is well fed. I've been planning on adding a jacuzzi in the stateroom,
but right now she's got lots of momentos from her previous ship.  We've got a
nice holodisplay on the bridge, but "officially" that's not for entertainment.
She does landfall at most systems to talk with the officials.   But due to her
background, she's more comfortable on her own ship (She was in cold sleep for
a thousand years and suffers from severe Temporal Displacement Syndrome).
Jumps make her horny, but that's another story :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 22:31:51 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Hal, what about my using an asteroid for a hull? I did it to save money (and
the integral armor is useful too). Do you think that asteroid ships are
efficient? I do, except when the wasted volume is critical.

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 22:40:22 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

I would definatly want a double sized cabin in my ship. After all, even the x
boat pilots grab the second cabin for themselves when they can. Actually the
ship I would hate to live in the most, is the SDB from Book 7. 10 people in 4
connected rooms (triple-double-double-triple, and a communal fresher-augh!
Especially when doctrine states that the boats hide for months at a time.
Granted that this is a military ship; not a commercial ship, but that is a lot
of lack of privacy. Especially with coed crews. This could start a new thread
- - future personal privacy and modesty issues, and gender modesty (ala the
Starship Troopers coed shower scene).

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 22:40:15 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

Jim Cooper wrote:

> All the talk on x-boats, scouts, traders has got me wondering how many
> ship captains would be required to file a *flight* plan and who would be
> responsible to ensure that it in fact happend the way it was planned.

Pretty much ALL legal captains must file flight plans with appropriate
bodies.  Military vessels would file flight plans with appropriate bases
(not necessarilly at every system). Merchants should file flight plans at
starports with Legal codes above Low.  Pirates wouldn't file flight plans.

> Let's say a very important piece of medical paraphanalia is required on
> such and such world. Sam's trader is in port ready to go, and has the
> room to take it. Port authority commandeers his ship to make the
> delivery. Sam agrees, for a price. He / the authority lays out a route
> (let's say it involves 2 or 3 jumps). Sam leaves.
> If Sam doesn't make it to each and every stop along the way (miss-jump,
> piracy, theft, better deal elsewhere, whatever), or if Sam doesn't
> return to the original port (takes another job, doesn't have a home
> port, needs a holiday), how will anyone know whether or not the article
> was delivered, or what and when may have happened along the way to
> prevent it.

Important stuff like that is generally shipped with a guard, or other
representative.

> I assume the institute at the other end would be complaining bitterly if
> it didn't show up in a reasonable time after request, or may institute
> search routines when it didn't show after having been told it was to be
> shipped on such and such date.
> Port authority controls arrivals and departures of in system ships, but
> I don't recall them having any data of what they should be expecting.
> This may have been previously discussed but I wasn't privy to the
> discussions so I value and solicit your opinion's and comments??

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #252
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Saturday, March 7 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 253



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Planetary Inertia
Glow in the dark
Re: X-boats
Re: Acceleration limits
Re: General Quarters
Re: Acceleration limits (dekagees -- wow)
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Glow in the dark
Sedition, etc.
Re: General Quarters Procedure
RE: X-boats
Re:Solomani & Vargr alike?
Re: Stat Test
Re: Stat Test
re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry
Website facelift
Re: Captain's life
Re: GURPS: Traveller
Re: Bellerophon, Asteroid Navigation
Re: Planetary Inertia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 23:00:11 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Planetary Inertia

s.johnson107@genie.geis.com wrote:

> If you didn't see my previous thank you for the help with what proof of alcohol
> you can do nasty things with, than please accept them now. ;)
>
>     That said... <grin>
>     Last night my players and I squeezed in an extra session and durring on of
> the breaks one of my two Lady Players, who's hard science background is
> functionally nil.  Made the connection between force and moving things and then
> asked if a big enough "BANG" could make the Earth shift in it's orbit, or the
> Moon for that matter.  Obvious, OC it would if the "BANG" overcomes the
> planetary inertia.  <SIGH> Then she asked us how MUCH of a "BANG" would be
> required to do it.
>
>     Not having figures handy at that moment, and I'm not at all certain how an
> atmosphere would effect this, I begged off answering until the next session.
> But this obviously has implications to Traveller, and given the joy so many on
> this list take in blowing things up already... <GRIN> I thought I'd pass the
> question along and see how the experts would answer it!
>
> Stephen

  Actually, I'm working on a similar situation.  In our game we're using subspace
travel and gravity well projectors for maneuver drives.  The problem is that the
"Hyperdrive" is extremely dangerous inside a gravity well, its magnified
tremendously.  Obviously we have to use thrusters in hyperspace... But...

In a nearby system, we got reports that the binary star system had a primary
stellar class M8-V... which obviously can't support life.  In our current system
the local scout base says it was a clerical error and its actually an M1-V star.
But we've already gotten two reports that its M8... So... I'm  thinking, 12 years
ago (4 parsecs, 12 light years) it WAS M1... but for some reason in the last 12
years it decayed to M8.  The locals of said system are kidnapping women... So I'm
thinking their women have radiation poisoning making them sterile and they need
fresh women for reproduction.  I'm trying to solve their problem...

If I can  get the other star in the system to collide with the primary at JUST the
right speed, they'll merge and form a star with the collective mass of the two.
Approximately a K2 star.  This has a nice comfortable zone... unfortunately, their
planet would become a hot house... Which is fine because I'd need to use their
planet to carry off the rotational inertia from the two suns...  Now if there's a
planet in the appropriate zone, it could be terraformed and voila! fresh new planet
for the population.

So, how do I do it?  Plot a course between the two suns and activate the hyperdrive
and gravity well projector.  If JUST enough of the secondary's orbital speed can be
reduced, it will be drawn into the primary.  Then you do the same to the original
planet to carry away the excess rotational inertia.

Or, I could just nuke the planet from orbit until they return the kidnapped
women... I haven't decided yet.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 23:32:10 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Glow in the dark

Thumbing through my copy of the peperback version of the Straight Dope by
Cecil Adams, (a fountain of useful wisdom, BTW) I discover that the most
common phosphor in glow in the dark keyrings and such is calcium sulfide
"activated" (whatever the h#ll that means -- can one of you chem majors
explain for the benefit of those of who last had chemistry in high school) by
bismuth, usually with traces of copper, silver or lead. As previously
explained, light kicks electrons into higher energy orbits, then the electrons
slowly fall into lower energy orbits, releasing photons as they do so. Some
phospors in things like watch faces, Adams goes on to say, are activated by
alpha radiation, ususlly zinc sulphide with one or two ppm of radium. No
mention is made of other compounds, although the implication is that there are
several of varying lethalities, of which calcium sulfide is used because it is
relatively innocuous when incorporated into a plastic skull ring or keychain.

I recall reading something about the US army using instruments that used
tritium as a glow-in-the-dark activator ( I think inthe Bradley IFV manuals
GDW had), but my memory is beginning to fail.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 23:45:57 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Hello Seth,
  With regards to your question about the Asteroid Hull...

1) off hand, the price for the hull is cheaper, but the "volume" of the
ship needs to be higher to account for the "waste space" involved.

2) while cheaper for sure hull wise, and believe me, for a 150 ton hull, a
savings of some 17 million is nice, I am not sure the advantages are quite
worth it.  Just for the jump drive alone, increasing a the size of the
planetoid body needs to be 187.5 tons (to account for a 20% wastespace
problem).  Bear in mind that the 187.5 ton ship needs more volume for the
fuel etc above and beyond what was allocated for the 150 ton ship, lets
just pretend that we don't need to take into account the increased
requirements for a ship that masses 37.5 tons more.  37.5 x .07 for the
extra Jump 6 engine will result in an added size of 2.625 tons of jump
drive.  This adds 10.5 Mcr to the price tag.  The powerplant then becomes
+2.25 tons larger, and this increases the price of the ship by 6.75 Mcr.
Already, the attempt to shave off 18 Mcr has cost us 17.25 Mcr, not to
mention the fact that the ship needs a larger volume for the fuel and so
forth, so already, we have passed the 18 Mcr we would have saved by going
planetoid.

  Another reason I decided to use wedge in the original design, is the
fact that the design is streamlined.  This will permit the X-boats to land
on a planetary surface regardless of atmosphere or not.  With any luck,
this will permit X-boats in need of repair, the ability to be repaired at
any normal facility.  I postulate, that if these boats are Imperium owned,
and are that valuable to it's economic and politcal well being, that these
craft have a high priority repair ticket (ie they can commandere drydock
space at will).

  If we want to get cheaper yet, we could use the dispersed strcture to
knock off 9 million in price.  Better yet, to retain atmospheric
maneuverability, we could use a flattened sphere.  This would knock off 6
million from the price tag.  Using the flattened sphere option, the new
Jump 6 vessel would cost 141.75 Mcr singly, or 113.4 with class discounts.

  If we assume that the Imperium has about 100 xboat routes in a major
sector (just pulling numbers at random folks <Grin>) and each route has an
average of 10 ships per, we are looking at 1000 such ships.  By knocking
the price down from the original 118.2 Mcr to the 113.4, we end up with
approximately 42 x-boats more than we would have had for the same price.

  Good point Seth!

  Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 19:28:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Acceleration limits

In mail you write:

>>4g is the limit for *sustained* acceleration. They mention higher
>>levels being possible in acceleration tanks.
>>
>>18 g is the limit for "muscular control" In other words, above 18 g,
>>forget being able to manipulate controls.
>>
>>83g was the highest accel they put anyone thru.
>>
>>But from the above, this means that for vehicles such as fighters,
> you
>>can run them at 4g above the g-comp essentially *indefinitely*!
> Ships
>
>         I wouldn't want to depend on the reflexes or judgement of anybody
> flying at 4g sustained ... even though it's physiologically possible,
> it's *tiring*. Even breathing requires more effort than normal. How
> did they define limit? Subject managed to remain conscious and
> coherent? Was it wearing a g-suit or performing a g-strain maneuver?
> What kind of activities did they have the subject perform while at
> 4gs?

They don't say. They just give the limits. But do recall that this is
"flat on your back" type acceleration, so g-suits and "g-straining"
don't have a significant effect.

Also remember that we are talking about people in good health. And
given the 18g limit for "muscular control", I'd have to assume that 
there's no major impairment of the ability to control things.

>         I seriously mistrust the idea of +4g *sustained*--for a few minutes,
> as part of a combat maneuver, yes. IIRC, manned space launches are in
> that region (Shuttle at ~3, Saturn a bit higher?). But as for running
> for hours at +4 ...

The sentence in the article is "The same source gives 18g's as the
level at which movements become too difficult to control and 4 g's as a
limit for sustained long-term acceleration." (p.65) Note the use of
*long-term*. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 19:38:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: General Quarters

In mail you write:

> rance), but it simplifies the work of Damage Control parties and should make 
> the ship more battle-worthy.  Look at how (wet)Navy submarines handle this 
> problem - you don't see US Navy Sub Crewmen on duty wearing SCUBA gear, do!
>  you?

Invalid analogy. If a sub takes on enough water for scuba gear to be
needed, it's *dead*. There's no way it'll get pumped out enough to keep
from going to the bottom. And the depth is such that scuba gear is a
bad idea anyway. 300 feet is extreme depth for scuba, and fairly
shallow for subs.  The gear needed for the depths subs routine operate
at is a lot different. And you *can't* just go from "room air" to using
the gear. 

> rash-landed in the middle of the wilderness. Why do I get the feeling that 
> if the Shuttle came down in the middle of the Australian Outback, there 
> would still be people waiting for it?

Don't count on it. They can't track it that well. If it goes down in
some out of the way place, the best info control will have about the
landing site will be the pilot's message telling them where he intended
to *try* for. There just plain *isn't* the sort of global radar
coverage that'd be needed to spot the landing site in many places. Dig
up a copy of "Shuttle Down" by Lee Correy (G. Harry Stine) for a
description of an unplanned emergency landing.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 19:50:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Acceleration limits (dekagees -- wow)

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> The latest issue of Analog has the first part of a 2 part article on
>> medical problems and solutions in space. They give a reference to the
>> rocket sled tests in the 50s. This is the exact info we were debating a
>> few months back:
>> 
>> 4g is the limit for *sustained* acceleration. They mention higher
>> levels being possible in acceleration tanks.
>> 
>> 18 g is the limit for "muscular control" In other words, above 18 g,
>> forget being able to manipulate controls.
>> 
>> 83g was the highest accel they put anyone thru.
>
> I find that kind of scary, but totally consistent with the behavior of the
> military in the 1950s.  I went back and calculated something: 
>
> If my car goes from a velocity of 100 kph to 0 kph in 0.1 seconds (typical
> high-speed accident), my body is pressed against the seat belts with force
> roughly corresponding to 28 G.  83 G is almost triple that. 
>
> Assuming that I'm snug in a couch with solid support under every bone, and
> the acceleration was forcing me into the support, I might be able to take
> it, but I expect that 83 G will kill an older person.  Their tissues just
> can't take the strain. 
>
> How were these tests conducted?

Well, as I recall, they used volunteers. And the guy who set the 83g
"record" was the the officer *running* the study (Col. Stapp). It was a
rocket sled run.

I recall reading about some of the other tests they ran on the limits
of endurance. The one for high temp had the menn in a room heated to 500
degrees F for an hour. They were naked, and sweated like crazy. The
only ones to suffer any damage were a couple wearing sweatbands. They
got blistering under the band because ther sweat couldn't evaporate
fast enough.

>> But from the above, this means that for vehicles such as fighters, you
>> can run them at 4g above the g-comp essentially *indefinitely*! Ships
>> can only do this if there's no need for the crew to move *and* they are
>> taking the acceleration "lying down".
>> 
>> The 18g limit would mean that if you could afford the drive to do so, a
>> fighter could to occasional dodging manevuers at 18g above g-comp.
>
> Yikes.  18/28 * 100 = 64 kph to 0 kph in 0.1 seconds.  Still not fun.  It
> probably works though, since acceleration is always exactly forward.  The
> body must be well supported.

Yep. I figure it'd be used for things like dodging missiles on an
intercept vector. Wait until it's "committed", then hit the
afterburners so it'll pass astern. 

>> I'd suggest that g tolerance limits be developed for Aslan, Hivers,
>> Vargyr, K'Kree, and the other non-human races. I'd expect K'kree to
>> have fairly low tolerances due to their body plan and sheer size. And
>> Hivers look like they'd be able to handle more acceleration than most.
>
> I agree, but have no applicable knowledge.  I'd like to see the results if
> somebody else does it, though.

I figure that the K'kree will have *real* g-tolerance problems because
they don't *have* a "flat on the back" position *possible*. So their
heads will *always* be about a meter higher than their bodies. Add in
the problems of body weight on *top* of their lungs, and they'll have
real problems.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:18:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

In mail you write:

>         Various chemicals used in processing air and/or
> water--disinfectants, absorbants (for noxious or unpleasant fumes).

Actually, it seems that the Space Shuttle uses a gizmo that is probably
related to a catalytic converter to oxidize the various trace
chemicals. This makes sense when you think about it.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 22:58:17 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Glow in the dark

On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, GDW GAMES wrote:
> I recall reading something about the US army using instruments that used
> tritium as a glow-in-the-dark activator ( I think inthe Bradley IFV manuals
> GDW had), but my memory is beginning to fail.

Many pistols use tritium sights, that is little dots of paint that
glow in the dark.  That's all I know about them.

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 00:36:22 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Sedition, etc.

Bruce Johnson saith:

> lesse now...is that sedition, or treason? Or both? 

This brings up one of the points I find most interesting about the US
constitution:

Treason is specifically defined therein, unlike some places (such as the
Imperium), where it is whatever the government says it is. 

Andrew Atkins asks:
> Kweenoyjyetin....what the $&%^ are Kweenoyjyetin?

They are the angels assigned to punish bad table manners -- the Droyne +hate_
it when someone uses the wrong fork.

Hal speculates:
> Just trying to get into the mindset of such a man... I almost suspect
> that maybe a Captain's cabin on a free tramp would be 1.5 or even 2 times
> larger than a normal stateroom...

Maybe. I seen a few captain's quarters on seagoing ships, and they didn't
strike me as especially spacious. Anything is possible, however.

Seth replies:
> Actually the ship I would hate to live in the most, is the SDB from Book 7.
10 
>people in 4 connected rooms (triple-double-double-triple, and a communal
fresher-> augh! Especially when doctrine states that the boats hide for months
at a time.

That's why I assigned them the nickname "pig-boats" but it didn't catch on.
WWII subs were called such, and the WWI ones were worse.

LKW

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 22:18:30 -0800
From: Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com>
Subject: Re: General Quarters Procedure

> b) Decompress the ship. This is rather radical, I admit...but it could
> prevent some chaos that might ensue during an explosive decompression. Of
> course, this requires (a) to be enacted :)

Decompressing the ship before battle would have detrimental effects on
cargo, incidentals, and personal items on board. It's difficult to ensure
everything on board is vacuum-safe.

- --
Richard Hough
richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 22:21:05 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: X-boats

The whole Xboat/Tender issue would be a pretty good candidate for a THUDD...

douglas

- ----------
From: 	HAL[SMTP:hal@buffnet.net]
Sent: 	Friday, March 06, 1998 5:04 PM
To: 	traveller@mpgn.com
Subject: 	X-boats

[snip]
.
  By the way, by including the manuever drives in these ships, the 1000
ton X-boat Tender is no longer a viable option.  Much as I suspect you
would hate me for saying this, but since the original X-boat ships were
illegal by even the rules of Book 2 starships, the X-boat Tenders really
should not exist as a class.

   Respectfully submitted,
     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 21:22:51 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re:Solomani & Vargr alike?

At 11:51 PM 06/03/98 GMT, Stephen wrote:
>On Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:24:34 "Legate" <legate@futureone.com> Wrote...

>> All in all, its a great idea.  Makes sense.  Works.  Just one fault,
>> with the power that the Solomani have would they not just shoot someone
>> for saying this?
>    Not all Solomani are in the Solomani Sphere of influence. ;) They're
>scattered amongst the populations of the Imperium and beyond! <grin>

Another mad Solomani thing, that - running all over the galaxy at random.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 21:30:29 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Stat Test

At 09:07 PM 06/03/98 -0500, Steve Daniels wrote:
>Kagehira wrote:
>>
>> STRENGTH
>> Subject holds an 8-pound barbell in one hand with the arm extended fully,
>> straight away from the body and parallel to the floor.
>
>How would this change for a 20lb barbell (don't have a 8lb. one
handy).Plus, I would
>think that for such a small weight, these times really measure endurance
(at least how
>fast your muscles react to anerobic activity and lactic acid build up).

I don't think that the 8 lb. barbell tests that either, because I'm not at
all fit right now, and I'm terrible at weights, pree-ups etc, but I managed
to get a STR of 8-9 using the 8 lb. weight. Maybe if Endurance was split up
into about three types (lactic acid resistance, ability to run a long time,
and ability to walk all day with lbs. of gear).




- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 01:29:06 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Stat Test

Along these lines, what formulas would be used to convert character
stats into REAL world stats?

I wrote a BASIC program that does this myself, but it was based loosely
on what *I* thought the strongest man alive could lift, and may not be
indicative of what may be possible.

Here are the formulas I used :
- ------------------------------
Weight (in kilograms) = strength * 7
Jump distance (in yards) = (dexterity * .35)+(strength * .45)/3
IQ to normal terms = IQ score * 11.12
Bench Max = strength * 32.5
Squat max = strenth * 86.6
Dead Lift = strength * 108
Last Grade completed = Education / 1.05
Looks on a scale of 1-10 = charisma / 1.8

Other stuff :
- ---------------
Leadership Score = (3*charisma or Social
standing)+(strength+IQ+education)/10
Gamma world stats to Snapshot = GammaWorld / .665
Gamma World Attributes to Snapshot Action points =dexterity + ((strength
+ IQ)/2)
May Day to Gamma World Melee Turn = (mayday turn / 1.66) /6 
Classic Traveller to Azhanti high Lightening melee value = ((strength +
dexterity)/4)+ brawling skill level
Space Fairer stats to Gamma World stats = attribute / 100


Please feel free to critic and pick these apart.  I'm no MATH wizard or
gearhead, so I know I'm probably off base on some things.  But I can't
think of a better place to find out then on this list.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 00:28:57 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:

>All the talk on x-boats, scouts, traders has got me wondering how many
>ship captains would be required to file a *flight* plan and who would be
>responsible to ensure that it in fact happend the way it was planned.

In the TNS entries prior to the FFW there is a passing reference to a
number of traders being overdue, from which I think you can infer that
flight plans are logged somewhere (at least by commercial lines).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 00:17:20 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Website facelift

I've begun a long overdue facelift on my website, adding more graphics
(since there are only two at the moment) etc. I am also intending to
get the Universal Corporate Profile page progressing again, extending
the information on the Luriani and Ine Givar, putting my own Greater
Magellanic Clouds documents up. Watch this space.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"Avec vous votra limpet mine?"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:13:39 +0100 (MET)
From: Steinar Knutsen <sk@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Sethkimmel wrote:

> I would definatly want a double sized cabin in my ship. After all, even the x
> boat pilots grab the second cabin for themselves when they can. Actually the
> ship I would hate to live in the most, is the SDB from Book 7. 10 people in 4
> connected rooms (triple-double-double-triple, and a communal fresher-augh!
> Especially when doctrine states that the boats hide for months at a time.
> Granted that this is a military ship; not a commercial ship, but that is a lot
> of lack of privacy. Especially with coed crews. This could start a new thread
> - future personal privacy and modesty issues, and gender modesty (ala the
> Starship Troopers coed shower scene).

Given a culture where gender modesty exists and the crews are mixed, I
would think something like this would be thinkable: 

- - The fresher could be a place where some things are not mentally
  acknowledged, symbols make do where actual physical privacy is
  impossible, not totally unlike what is done some pleces in India. The
  women wash themselves by the men, but do not completely remove their
  saris. The thin cloth doesn't hide much, but it is enough to keep mental
  privacy for both sexes. 
- - People "turn off" gender modesty when on duty, and turn it back on when
  dirtside and in bigger ships. Real life example: A woman a friend of
  mine knows has worked posing nude for art classes, one time when she got
  dressed after a class or something like that, a student happened to walk
  into her wardrobe by accident. She quickly covered herself and "asked"
  the student who already had looked away and was getting out of the room
  as quickly as possible to get out. This was one the students who had
  been drawing her in the previous class. One of the better examples I
  know of that modesty can be turned on and off.

A small idea on personal privacy...

- - Some place(s) on the ship could be termed "sanctuaries" of some kind,
  you never enter if you see that the door is closed or something like
  that. This needn't be much bigger than your average ship's locker,
  though with a window. A scheme like this has been used in present day
  space stations, and the astronauts appreciated the system.

Steinar Knutsen, stud.scient., SP4, PSA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 11:51:23 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS: Traveller

 kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote:

>I'm right now putting the final daring swirls and curliques of logic onto
>my grand expose' of the REAL, PLAIN, UNVARNISHED HORRIBLE TRUTH:  Plan "Y"
>>From Outer Space.  Let's say it involves the "Innsmouth taint", genetic
>programming by email, prehensile genitalia, the Great Old Ones, what REALLY
>happened to JFK (Grassy Knoll = K'kree grazing/vantage point; book
>depository = covert AAB field office), the "Fungi From Yuggoth" (i.e.,
>Eskaloyt), the pocket universe of R'lyeh (Regina : R'lyeh -- see?), the
>coming invasion of the "Hounds of Tindalos" (Tindalos = Droyne name for the
>planet humans call "Lair"), the chilling truth behind the Santa Claus
>myth-cycle, the Empress Wave, proof that the Templars have it all wrong,
>nude pictures of the Five Sisters (hubba hubba!), and evidence that
>Hitler's brain is alive and well and controls both SolSec and SuSAG
>(obviously) while Stalin has been cloned and seizes power in the Domain of
>Deneb, unaware of his ancient blood foe on the other end of the Imperium...
>and I finally have an explanation for all those crossdressing Elvis
>sightings, too.
>
>Oh, you'll WISH that They were trying to turn you into hamsters.  Oh, how
>you'll wish, my friends!
>
>What's even better is that there's no mention of near-C rocks, reactionless
>drives, pirates, fighters, or acronyms for calendrical conventions.
>
>Of course, the C.O.N.S.P.I.R.A.C.Y. is going to try to silence me, but FAT
>CHANC

There, there, there Kenji. let me wipe away that drool, and take you to
this *nice* room with *nice* padded floors and walls in such a *nice*
restful pink colour. And look, I've got a present for you: An *ever so
nice* jacket with lovely *nice* straps - it'd look just perfect on you...
Oh yes, let me inject this ever so nice pretty blue liquid in you, it'll
give you such *nice* dreams.

- -----

<Sitrep>
Our agent, obviously stressed under the pressures of mock-human existance
has suffered a mild breakdown, and we have retrieved him for minor
re-education and psychological correction. The need to perform this work on
one of our most favoured and skilled agents proves the dangers that contact
with humans brings.
</Sitrep>

- -----
Feeling better now?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 08:41:34 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Bellerophon, Asteroid Navigation

Wouldn't you get those kind of densities in the accretion
disk of a black hole?  The addition of the black hole would add 
some interesting effects such as the tides that could tear a
ship or a hurtling asteroid into rubble.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:54:29 +0100 (MET)
From: Steinar Knutsen <sk@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: Planetary Inertia

On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 s.johnson107@genie.geis.com wrote:

> If you didn't see my previous thank you for the help with what proof of
> alcohol you can do nasty things with, than please accept them now. ;) 
> 
>     That said... <grin>
>     Last night my players and I squeezed in an extra session and durring
> on of the breaks one of my two Lady Players, who's hard science
> background is functionally nil.  Made the connection between force and
> moving things and then asked if a big enough "BANG" could make the Earth
> shift in it's orbit, or the Moon for that matter.  Obvious, OC it would
> if the "BANG" overcomes the planetary inertia.  <SIGH> Then she asked us
> how MUCH of a "BANG" would be required to do it. 

Well, one of my players constantly accuses me of being far too fond of
blowing things up, so I could try to say some words on it.

To start with, I would totally ignore the effects of any atmosphere, with
the energies you would need here, I strongly doubt a typical atmosphere
makes any difference.

The easiest way of doing this kind of calculations is considering
energies:

To change a planet's, or moon's, orbit you would need to change it's
potential "gravitational" energy, for the system Earth-Sun this is:

E = -GmM/r = - (6.7e-11 * 6.0e24 * 2.0e30 / 1.5e11 )J = -5.4e33J

(E is the energy, G is Newton's gravitational constant, m is the mass of
Earth, M is the mass of the Sun and r the mean distance between their
centers of mass.)

Thus, to change the orbit of the Earth to be 1% closer to the Sun,
you would need to change the potential energy by:

| D*E |  = | -GmM/r2 - -GmM/r1 | = 5.4e31J

Or 1.35e16 megatons.

To shift the Moon 1% closer to the Earth:

| D*E |  = | -GmM/r2 - -GmM/r1 | = 7.9e26J

Or 2.0e11 megatons.

Hope this helped.

Steinar Knutsen, stud.scient., SP4, PSA

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #253
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Saturday, March 7 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 254



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Captain's life
Things that glow....
Re: Stewards (was: Starship Expenses)
Re: Captain's life
Re: Captain's life
Re: Captain's life
Re: IG on hold and new orders
Chirper
Spinward marches question
Re: Chirper
Re: Stat Test
Re: Starship Expenses
Mid passage staterooms
Re: Chirper
Re: Windows CE Question
Re: Re: what I've seen, part II
Re: Stat Test
Re: Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?
Re: Chirper
Re: Chirper
Value of Imperial Credit in US dollars
Sonar
Re: Acceleration limits (dekagees -- wow)
Re: Acceleration limits
Re: Captain's life
Re: Captain's life

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 09:35:22 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

My father was captain of a fishing vessel for a number
of years.  The space on board was close to that of a 100dt
Scout vessel, not including the hold (which is not a place you
go unless maintaining systems in that part of the vessel).
He lived on board for up to 5 out of 6 months at a time.
It can be done, but it's not the life for everyone.

As to the the size of the cabin, no it was the same size as
the cabins used by the rest of the crew, but it had windows.
All cabins on board had two bunks.  IIRC the crew cabins
actually had more floor space.

Eric Freitas

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kenji Schwarz <kenji@accessone.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: Captain's life


>Hal wrote:
>
>>  Suppose you have a captain on board a ship.  Further suppose he has to
>>live on board that ship.  Further speculate that he never lives at a Hotel
>>or whatnot unless the ship is in Maintenance for two weeks.  Just how much
>>space is he really going to want versus need for his "living" quarters?
>>Assume that the average number of jumps said captain makes is 25 per year.
>>Further assume that each jump is actually 8 days spent on board the ship.
>>This equates to 200 days staring at a room that is roughly 10 x 12 x 8
>>(when he's not busy elsewhere like the bridge or other parts of the ship)!
>>How would you arrange that room?  What would you want in it?  How likely
>>could you survive living in that room for 200 or so days.  Those 200 days
>>are days he can't get away from the ship.  Groundside, he can at least
>>head out side for his entertainment/socialization needs, but what about
>>his enforced time inside?
>>  Just trying to get into the mindset of such a man... I almost suspect
>>that maybe a Captain's cabin on a free tramp would be 1.5 or even 2 times
>>larger than a normal stateroom...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:36:10 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Things that glow....

Many handguns (and rifles too)  use Tritium spots on the sights to help
sighting in poor light. I'm sure they glow in total darkenss too, but
frankly that's not much help....

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 15:37:36 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Stewards (was: Starship Expenses)

On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:25:54 -0500, Walter G. Smith wrote:

> James Lindsay wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >Walt Smith wrote:
> > No. The Steward's wages are paid for seperately, in the "crew wages" expense
> > line. 
> 
> Wrong.  *Every* crewman's salary comes from revenue generated by the
> ship... including paying passengers.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> Life support isn't a revenue, it's an expense.

I never said that.

> The Steward's salary is one
> expense (2000Cr/month d.o.e.), life support is another, annual maintenance,
> bank payment, etc - all in the "expenses" column.

I didn't realize that you were still quoting from the rulebook.  I thought
we were discussing the breakdown of a Cr10,000 High Passage ticket (maybe
it was Dom's post).  My apologies.  I hope my reply makes more sense now...




James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 11:31:00 -0500
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

From: Eric Freitas <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Saturday, March 07, 1998 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Captain's life


>My father was captain of a fishing vessel for a number
>of years.  The space on board was close to that of a 100dt
>Scout vessel, not including the hold (which is not a place you
>go unless maintaining systems in that part of the vessel).
>He lived on board for up to 5 out of 6 months at a time.
>It can be done, but it's not the life for everyone.
>
>As to the the size of the cabin, no it was the same size as
>the cabins used by the rest of the crew, but it had windows.
>All cabins on board had two bunks.  IIRC the crew cabins
>actually had more floor space.
>Eric Freitas

I was on a couple of different war ship and if memory serves, the crew all
had bunks that folded up into a wall recess.  When folded down there were
curtains that could be pulled for privacy and a reading lamp.  You lifted up
the mattress and had storage space underneath for "personal" items.  Most
guys had pictures taped to the wall (inside the recess) inside their private
area.  You can expand this further by having a fold down writing tray with
built in cup holder, bunks that allow you to raise your head and legs/knees
(ala hospitol beds) a wall outlet for your personal electrical devices, fold
down computer terminals for writing letters, traveller stories, etc.  The
recess was about a foot deep and the bunks stuck out about six inches when
folded up.  This is of course at TL 8/9 so we should be able to do tons more
at TL 12.  I think that a personal holo display in each privacy area would
be nice.  Oh yea, they all had small lockers at the end of their bunks and a
hook to hang their sea bags (work clothes went in these with a seperate
compartment for dirty stuff).

The junior officers (company grade, 01-03) shared a small (read that very
small) stateroom.  They shared a small writing desk, but had individual beds
and lockers.  They had storage cabinets over their bunks and drawers
underneath.  This gave them a tremendous amount of personal storage over
the enlisted men.  Having said that, the ships Chief Petty Officers (senior
enlisted, E7-E9) had an identical configuration.

Senior officers (field grade, 04-06) had small individual staterooms and you
can extrapolate from the previous descriptions as how they were probably
configured.  The ship's senior enlisted man also got a private stateroom.
You could easily put fold down chairs and a table in the walls like the pull
down bunks.

This leaves us the Captain, he had a large reception room where he could do
some minor entertaining and have informal discussions with the crew.  Most
formal discussions were held in the "war room" very near the bridge.

Now this was what would be available on say 400 dton ships and larger.
The bunks could line both sides of a long corridor or something like that.
A special note on the sizes of the staterooms (this is a swag of course):
double  = 8x8
single    = 8x5

Thom

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 12:22:08 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

In a message dated 3/6/98 18:50:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
kenji@accessone.com writes:

<< >  Suppose you have a captain on board a ship.  Further suppose he has to
 >live on board that ship.  Further speculate that he never lives at a Hotel
 >or whatnot unless the ship is in Maintenance for two weeks.  Just how much
 >space is he really going to want versus need for his "living" quarters?
 >Assume that the average number of jumps said captain makes is 25 per year.
 >Further assume that each jump is actually 8 days spent on board the ship.
 >This equates to 200 days staring at a room that is roughly 10 x 12 x 8
 >(when he's not busy elsewhere like the bridge or other parts of the ship)!
 >How would you arrange that room?  What would you want in it?  How likely
 >could you survive living in that room for 200 or so days.  Those 200 days
 >are days he can't get away from the ship.  Groundside, he can at least
 >head out side for his entertainment/socialization needs, but what about
 >his enforced time inside? >>

You could draw a possible parallel from a SSBN captain...min patrol time on
these vessels is 60 days, IIRC.  And I am sure he doesn't have much room to
spread out  :-)

DustyLV769

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 12:26:44 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

In a message dated 3/6/98 19:42:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:

<< I would definatly want a double sized cabin in my ship. After all, even the
x
 boat pilots grab the second cabin for themselves when they can. Actually the
 ship I would hate to live in the most, is the SDB from Book 7. 10 people in 4
 connected rooms (triple-double-double-triple, and a communal fresher-augh!
 Especially when doctrine states that the boats hide for months at a time.
 Granted that this is a military ship; not a commercial ship, but that is a
lot
 of lack of privacy. Especially with coed crews. This could start a new thread
 - future personal privacy and modesty issues, and gender modesty (ala the
 Starship Troopers coed shower scene).
  >>


The Israeli military has had co-ed combat arms forces for many years (and that
includes gays as well).  They somehow still seem to function at a VERY high
level of efficiency and morale...

Dusty (Uncle Sam wants you, but if you want Uncle Sam, don't say anything)
LV769

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 12:50:55 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: IG on hold and new orders

"Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net> writes:
>I'd kinda like to know before I send in my c.card number for a couple
>of things I want. 


DON'T SEND IMPERIUM GAMES YOUR CREDIT CARD NUMBER!!!!

Quite a few people on the list have been charged for products that they
haven't received. I was charged in October for stuff I haven't got _yet_!
(I'm disputing the charges with VISA right now.)
>
>
>Plus, does anyone know if The Long Way Home (Part I) is still 
>available? 


Order the full version from CORE, in the UK. The quality is better (IG's
version screwed up some of the illustrations and maps), and you get the
full adventure in one volume. 
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 18:58:22 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Chirper

Chirper ... apparently an alien race of some kind. Exactly what kind ? I
seem to remember reading something about them somewhere, but I do not know
where that could have been. I have Milleu0:Campaign ...


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Linkping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 19:00:19 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Spinward marches question

Could someone please post the "GDW standard" notations for bases (from the
Spinward Marches supplement) ?

The one with various combinations of naval, scout and military bases ...
with one letter representing each combination (A for both naval and scout
bases for example).


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Linkping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 13:34:55 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Chirper

Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:

> Chirper ... apparently an alien race of some kind. Exactly what kind ? I
> seem to remember reading something about them somewhere, but I do not know
> where that could have been. I have Milleu0:Campaign ...

Look at Core sector - they seem to be everywhere that the Sylean Federation
isn't.
They're detailed most fully in Long Way Home Part 1, which I don't happen to
have anymore.  My general recollection is that they were short (approx 1
meter) bipeds with arms derived from wings.  The ones in Long Way Home weren't
particularly bright.  But I don't know if thats from their circumstances or a
racial thing.  I think there's a website somewhere, but IIRC, if didn't have
scads of info.  (The more I think, the more I seem to remember that I had a
problem (delay) with the pages loading).

A more detailed description and Chargen stats would be interesting, especially
given the frequency of their habitations in Core.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 13:43:58 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Stat Test

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> At 09:07 PM 06/03/98 -0500, Steve Daniels wrote:
> >Kagehira wrote:
> >>
> >> STRENGTH
> >> Subject holds an 8-pound barbell in one hand with the arm extended fully,
> >> straight away from the body and parallel to the floor.
> >
> >How would this change for a 20lb barbell (don't have a 8lb. one
> handy).Plus, I would
> >think that for such a small weight, these times really measure endurance
> (at least how
> >fast your muscles react to anerobic activity and lactic acid build up).
>
> I don't think that the 8 lb. barbell tests that either, because I'm not at
> all fit right now, and I'm terrible at weights, pree-ups etc, but I managed
> to get a STR of 8-9 using the 8 lb. weight.

I get STR 8 with the 20lb barbell :-)Braggin aside, if I multiply the time held
by the weight differential, I'd have STR 15 or something (ridiculous IMHO).  I
know its all in fun, but I'd be interested in getting a more accurate estimate.
Perhaps something like J-Man's post in reverse.

BTW:  I get the following UPP with the Gen-Con Test (although I'm guestimating
strength since I only have the 20lb barbell).

AA7BBA-A
A little generous, but not too far from my off hand estimate of
A969B8-A

Bloo


> Maybe if Endurance was split up
> into about three types (lactic acid resistance, ability to run a long time,
> and ability to walk all day with lbs. of gear).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 19:00:16 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

> every ship is presumed to have "compressors"

Not IMTU ... do you have  a "canon" source for this assumption,  I 
assume that the only compressors are associated with each air lock, and 
these only recover half the air before equalising pressure and opening 
to vacuum.

If you have type IV life support, then you will have the high speed 
compressors required to evacuate the air into high pressure tanks.  My 
reading of FFS makes this distinction quite clear (at last!).

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 11:13:12 -0800
From: Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com>
Subject: Mid passage staterooms

>Note: Steerage passengers sleep in bunks; Economy passengers sleep in small
>staterooms or two to a large stateroom. Mid and High Passengers as described
>in the rules.

I notice that a lot of the THUDD ships use small staterooms for middle
passengers. I don't think this is reasonable; it makes middle passengers
more profitable that high passengers because you can fit twice as many in
and mid passage tickets are more than half the price of high passage. Canon
says high passengers can bump middle passengers, and this is impossible if
their cabins are different. Moreover, even a full stateroom is pretty small
for civilians to stay in for weeks at a time, especially for families.

- --
Richard Hough
richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 13:29:45 -0600
From: Trey Shewmake <yert@mad.scientist.com>
Subject: Re: Chirper

Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:
> 
> Chirper ... apparently an alien race of some kind. Exactly what kind ? I
> seem to remember reading something about them somewhere, but I do not know
> where that could have been. I have Milleu0:Campaign ...
> 
> Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Linkping, Sweden)
> E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
> UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
> Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org

That would be CT: Adventure #3, I believe, "Research Station Gamma" -
one of my favorites to run (and play) - Chiree wouldn't leave our party
alone. *smirk* That, and you toss a few dozen Hoka's in one of the
habitation spheres... *evil grin*

Yert

- -- 
Trey B. Shewmake                                  yert@mad.scientist.com
Traveller: The Spinward Marches MUD         crazy.net 9999
                         http://www.crazy.net/~spinward

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:28:45 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Windows CE Question

Rob,
        I somehow received a 3 CD development package
(it may be a demo, not sure) from Microsoft for the 
Windows CE platforms.  I haven't installed it yet
because I haven't any reason to do so, but I did notice
that the installation requires (get this) 1.9GigaBytes
on your hard drive (and Win95 or WinNT).  After seeing 
that, I kind of lost interest.  However, I'll look at
it again to see what I can find out.

Eric Freitas

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 23:04:16 +0400
From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: Re: Re: what I've seen, part II

>>>>
Date:	Thu, 05 Mar 1998 09:48:20 -0800
From:	"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject:	Re: What I've seen Part II

At 07:43 PM 3/4/98 EST, Loren wrote:
>Douglas E. Berry wrote (in response to others):

>>More and more, I'm getting the feeling the Steve Jackson is Yaskodray, and
>>the door to SJG is a portal to his pocket universe...
>
>You know, everything seemed a little strange until the second day. Steve
>invited me into his office, and then he had me sit down in this funny chair
>and put this icky grey thing on my neck. Since then, everything has been
>absolutely wonderful, and the stuff that seemed weird at first (the
>incubators in the basement, the unmarked trucks coming and going at odd 
>hours, the funny smells from the warehouse) now make perfect sense.

Loren, that icky grey thing is an Ascended Templar!
Feed it Chessy Poofs and let it watch Gamera movies and you'll be fine.
<<<<

Icky grey things... sounds like a Puppet Master to me....

Andy
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Long			andylong@emirates.net.ae
C/o ICL			andyl@icluae.co.ae
PO Box 7237			+971 (50) 641 8232 (Mobile)
Abu Dhabi			+971 (2) 274688 (Res/Fax)
United Arab Emirates	+971 (2) 335200 (Office)
- ------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 09:34:43 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Stat Test

At 01:43 PM 07/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>BTW:  I get the following UPP with the Gen-Con Test (although I'm
guestimating
>strength since I only have the 20lb barbell).

If you want an 8lb weight get three 1.5 litre plastic soft drink bottles,
fill two up anf half fill the third. Put them all in a plastic carry bag,
and lo! an 8lb weight.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 12:42:28 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?

At 12:48 PM 3/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
> Is it just me or are all the TL's missing from the vehicles listed in
>"Emperors Vehicles" ???And if the are the does anyone have the official or
>even non-official TL's for the vehicles? I mean I can guess that a Grav Tank
>armed with a Plasma Cannon is not a TL5 Ind. world vehicle. But other listed
>vehicles are not so easy.

Congratulations, you now own the third worst book ever published for
Traveller.  The TL's are missing.  According to Leroy, this is a feature.
(That man has a future at Microsoft.)
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 12:35:38 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Chirper

At 06:58 PM 3/7/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Chirper ... apparently an alien race of some kind. Exactly what kind ? I
>seem to remember reading something about them somewhere, but I do not know
>where that could have been. I have Milleu0:Campaign ...

Chirpers are degenerate Droyne.  They've lost the ability to cast, and
remain in a semi-immature state for their entire lives.  
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 13:55:28 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Chirper

Douglas Berry wrote:

>Chirpers are degenerate Droyne.  They've lost the ability to cast, and
>remain in a semi-immature state for their entire lives.

Wait -- I thought those were RPG'ers????


- --------------------------------------------------------
Kenji Schwarz                      Business Manager
Seattle Institute for Biomedical and Clinical Research
(206) 764 2730                     kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 23:41:43
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Value of Imperial Credit in US dollars

The issue with valueing the Imperial credit against modern currencies is by
definition, you can buy stuff with Imperial credits that you just cant buy
with US dollars.

For example, imagine we have an Imperial megacredit. Being smart cookies,
we charter a small starship (a type S scout would be perfect), and buy 4
tons of anti-gravity modules at another system and ship it to Earth (lack
of regularily scheduled trade services and all that means we can't just
book the space on a freighter).

Now, how much would any Earth government pay for this ? 4 tons of
anti-gravity would let, say, Venezuala, become the dominant space power.

Therefore the Imperial megacredit could be turned into bloody heaps of US
dollars, Rembrandt paintings, the rights to the entire Beatles collection,
or pretty much anything else we wanted.

OK. This shows up the profits to be made on recontact.

Now, imagine that Earth does have a regularily scheduled Makhadurin
merchant service. The stuff we buy off Makhadurin would have to balance the
stuff they bought off us (assumning no-one was willing to write IOUs).

We want to buy a lot of stuff off them. They want to buy relativly less
stuff off us (the DM per TL on the selling price table). Therefore we will
have to cut the prices of the stuff they are vaguely interested in, in
order to earn the hard currency to buy what we really want.

I dont know how low the Earth currency would have to go to balance out our
TL7/8 exports vs TL 12 imports, but I suspect it would be a lot lower than
2 US dollars to one Imperial credit.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 23:45:11
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Sonar

Sorry for this being off-Traveller, but with a bunch of ex-Navy and sensor
gurus around, I figured here was the best place to ask.

How much would 1980s passive and active sonars be degraded by operating
near large (say, 60) numbers of merchant ships ? At what range would you
need to be away from the convoy to get full performance out of your sonar
systems ?

I'm designing a set of convoy scenarios for Harpoon 2, and I think I need
to degrade the sensor performance on close escorts. I'm just not sure by
how much, or what classes as "close".

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 15:00:43 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Acceleration limits (dekagees -- wow)

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>>> I'd suggest that g tolerance limits be developed for Aslan, Hivers,
>>> Vargyr, K'Kree, and the other non-human races. I'd expect K'kree to
>>> have fairly low tolerances due to their body plan and sheer size. And
>>> Hivers look like they'd be able to handle more acceleration than most.
>>
>> I agree, but have no applicable knowledge.  I'd like to see the results if
>> somebody else does it, though.
>
>I figure that the K'kree will have *real* g-tolerance problems because
>they don't *have* a "flat on the back" position *possible*. So their
>heads will *always* be about a meter higher than their bodies. Add in
>the problems of body weight on *top* of their lungs, and they'll have
>real problems.

<throw down soldering iron>  Damn it, you guys!  Will you GET OFF MY
BACK???  I haven't even had a chance to get this prototype of the PMPP
finished yet!  And anyway, how the hell am I supposed to get one of the
cows all the way up from Building 18 (Animal Research Facility, aka "arf!
arf!") to Dr. B.'s lab on the 7th floor of the main hospital, where the
really big centrifuges are???  Huh?  No, betcha you didn't THINK OF THAT,
didja, smartypants?  Even on weekends it's hard enough to sneak the sheep
up to the helipad past security.  Just cool yer jets and I'll get to it
soon as I can.  Sheesh!



- ------------------------------------------------------
Kenji Schwarz                     Business Manager
Seattle Institute for Biomedical and Clinical Research
(206) 764 2730                    kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 16:51:39 +0000
From: "Bill Hopper" <whopper@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Acceleration limits

It all depends on exactly what the study's definition is for 
'long-term'.  Given that their short term is measured in the seconds 
of a rocket sled ride, I would be surprised if their long term is the 
hours you might be subject to these accelerations in Traveller starship 
combat.

WKH
> From:          shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> >         I seriously mistrust the idea of +4g *sustained*--for a few minutes,
> > as part of a combat maneuver, yes. IIRC, manned space launches are in
> > that region (Shuttle at ~3, Saturn a bit higher?). But as for running
> > for hours at +4 ...
> 
> The sentence in the article is "The same source gives 18g's as the
> level at which movements become too difficult to control and 4 g's as a
> limit for sustained long-term acceleration." (p.65) Note the use of
> *long-term*. 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 18:16:33 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

Yeah, but the Israeli's don't let women into combat anymore (since 48'). Let's
say they weren't thrilled at the idea of women soldiers falling into the hands
of people who consider all western women whores... I also think they went back
to sex segregated training because of discipline problems (sounds familiar?).
Of course, these points don't really address this thread (starship quarters),
so I guess the people to ask are the sailors out there (especially now that
women are on USN combat vessels).

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 19:04:30 EST
From: RSpake2064 <RSpake2064@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

In a message dated 98-03-07 18:17:36 EST, you write:

<< I guess the people to ask are the sailors out there (especially now that
 women are on USN combat vessels).
 
 Seth >>

yeah what about it? 

i was hopeing that i could just listen in on this one. i like hearing how
landlovers think about how we do the six month cruises.  

Here's what its like on a carrier:

enlisted (E1 to E5) are kept in open bay berthings.  bunks are stacked three
high, and in sets of six each.  a total of bunks number around 18 to 60 bunks
per bay.  

senoir enlisted (E6) are alike this as well, but are kept form around 18 to 30
bunks per bay.  

Cheif Petty Officers (E7 to E9) are in berths identicle to that of the Frist
Class Petty Officers, just with nicer bunks (read- a real mattress and not an
inch think matt) and a really kick butt lounge and their own mess decks.

officers are the only ones who actually have staterooms

junior (Ens and Lt,Jg) officers are asigned to 6 per state room, their bunks
are stacked only two high. senior officers (Lts and LCmdrs) are 3 or 4 to a
stateroom, more senoir officers (Department Heads, Execs) are in a single
occupancy stateroom (the Exec has a small office area as part of his
stateroom) and the Captian and Admiral of a ship are given a singel occupancy
state room with an entertaining area (the so-called "In Port" stateroom) and
the captain also has a single occupancy stateroom off the bridge (the "at Sea"
Stateroom) that contains only a bunk, and several changes of clothes and a
private head.  

Smaller Vessels operate much diffrent than this. All enlisted are kept in
simular (yet seperate Berths), officers have smaller staterooms that are
between 6 to 12 per stateroom.  COs and Execs have private staterooms.

For a good look at what the Commanding officers stateroom would look like go
watch "Under Seige" and standard officer stateroomms look to "Navy Seals" and
for the enlisted berths go watch Star Trek the Undiscovered Country (i know...
but it's as close as i could think of at a moments notice- and its fairly
close enough for this comparision).

as for how i feel about women on combat ships. dont get me started. they (teh
women on board) have a major double standard. males cant cross through their
berths even in General Quarters, but they can (and do) go through our berths
regularly...  

have you ever steped out of the shower to meet face to face with an entire
gaggle of female squids? its not nice. if a male was to make the kind of
commmets i heard that day... can we say "Tailhook" boys and girls? I know you
can.

now i do beleive in the addage "Equal Rights for Equal Risks"...  but i also
feel that women should have to train on our level, not us training on their
level (watering down our training only gets more people killed).  

I saw people get killed and die when their training was harder and more strict
than most whould handle it.  the way things are going now more people will die
if the training isnt brought up to a decent standard.  haveing women in combat
who can't lift a streacher, or carry their own combat loads are a liablity. 

'nuff said on that one.

a former squid who misses the oceans he has traveled, and all the foriegn
lands he has visisted... but not the bloodshed he has seen.
richard

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #254
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, March 8 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 255



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Acceleration limits (dekagees -- wow)
What Grey Thing?
Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...
Re: The things I've seen...
X-boats
pig boats
Re: pig boats
Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)
Re: X-boats
Re: X-boats
Re: X-boats
Re: X-boats
Re: Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?
Re: Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?
Re: X-boats
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Captain's life
Re: Chirper
Where do I start?
Re: Value of Imperial Credit in US dollars
Re: What Grey Thing?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 19:22:28 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Acceleration limits (dekagees -- wow)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kenji Schwarz <kenji@accessone.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Saturday, March 07, 1998 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: Acceleration limits (dekagees -- wow)


><throw down soldering iron>  Damn it, you guys!  Will you GET OFF MY
>BACK???  I haven't even had a chance to get this prototype of the PMPP
>finished yet!  And anyway, how the hell am I supposed to get one of the
>cows all the way up from Building 18 (Animal Research Facility, aka "arf!
>arf!") to Dr. B.'s lab on the 7th floor of the main hospital, where the
>really big centrifuges are???  Huh?  No, betcha you didn't THINK OF THAT,
>didja, smartypants?  Even on weekends it's hard enough to sneak the sheep
>up to the helipad past security.  Just cool yer jets and I'll get to it
>soon as I can.  Sheesh!
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Kenji Schwarz                     Business Manager


Kenji

Are the sheep for an experiment, and why the helipad? And just what kind of
business DO you manage? Does it have something to do with primate social
interaction?

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"It's a small world. So you gatta use your elbows a lot!"  Unknown bumper
sticker.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 20:45:58 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: What Grey Thing?

Andy ventured:

> Icky grey things... sounds like a Puppet Master to me....

<FNORD>
Tell them something that will assuage their curiosity without revealing the
true nature of my mission on this planet.
</FNORD>

It's a Texas thing. I have to wear it or I lose my retirement benefits. 

Seth saith:
>I guess the people to ask are the sailors out there (especially now that
>women are on USN combat vessels).

_or_ we could ask some of the surviving Soviet female tank crewmembers from
WWII, who served in mixed crews, on the Leningrad front anyway (saw an
interesting interview with a couple of them recently -- the toilet
arrangements inside tanks were "use a shell casing and toss it out the
hatch"). Soviets had women fighter pilots in the GPW as well, and I don' t
think they were in sex-segregated units either. On the other hand, the WWII
Soviets did have sex-segregated infantry units (Frank knows more about this
than I do), and I think MP and engineers. I'm not sure what they did about
"extracurricular activities," but I can guess...

In one of the Franz Joseph Star Trek books from the late 70s (collector's
items now, I think), there is a statement in one of the footnotes to the
effect that Star Fleet regulations abolish sex as a limitation on quarters
assignments without violating Federation standards of decorum. What this says
about Federation standards of decorum is open to interpretation. 

Loren
   SJ Games Emigre
   GDW Emeritus

<FNORD>
Memo: Ask Control if it is possible that the fnord messages are getting
through to the list at large. Some curious questions have been asked recently.
</FNORD>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 19:23:39 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: About the generation of x-boaat routes ...

At 05:13 PM 3/4/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks.  Surely the early 3I would have some parallel wouldn't it?  At
>Year 0 it would be reorganizing to Jump 3?  No?  Yes?

Ummm, both and neither?

Prior to the X-Boat network, the only Imperium-wide
courier and messaging systems were specialized
"internal use only" arrangements, such as naval
or megacorporate couriers. 

General-use systems were the assortment of 
local subsidized mail routes, which might 
be thought of as driving across the USA
_BEFORE_ the interstate highway system:
rough going where some secions are slow
from excessive traffic, while others are
slow because they don't get enough traffic
to be worth maintaining properly.

JB

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 19:42:38 -0500
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: The things I've seen...

At 08:51 AM 3/4/1998 -0800, you wrote:
>At 08:11 PM 3/3/98 EST, you wrote:
>>>Loren *has* been hanging around SJG now, hasn't he?  I wonder how much he
>>>has *seen*...
>>
>>Among other things, the Reverend Ivan Stang. 
>
>More and more, I'm getting the feeling the Steve Jackson is Yaskodray, and
>the door to SJG is a portal to his pocket universe...

No, it just means it was the _hivers_ who cancelled
the original Star Trek, and who keep Babylon 5
dangling by a thread...

FNERD (yes, you read that right, and the pig
golfed a straight flush in ten)

So, Loren, is GURPS Illuminati going to get a
sidebar plug in the Hiver section?

JB

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 22:12:31 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: X-boats

I was thinking about a redesign for xboats.  You could simply have a
spine with jump drives and a flight computer (maybe a little battery
job), maybe some sort of sensor and comm suite.  Mail packages are
stored in a cargo module that has a large computer storage with
independant power.  The cargo module also stores all the fuel for the
jump in a refined form. This cargo module jacks into the xboat with jump
programming entered into the computer.  The computer interfaces with the
xboat and jumps to the next system.  In the new system, the tender
brings an outgoing cargo module, takes the incoming module and sends the
xboat on its way.  Back at the station, the incoming module is
processed, mail is routed into outgoing modules and the used module is
recycled and refueled.  This reduces the cost of the xboat conciderably
since you don't need life support or vitually anything but the jump
drives.  Alternatively, you could keep a cold watch if for some reason
you feel it is necessary to actually have somebody available for
emergencies.  I don't really know what an xboat pilot  can do without
weapons or maneuver drives, so I don't see the need. All the programming
can be done and stored on the computer when the tender heads out to meet
the xboat.

The station can be kept outside 100 diameters and NOT orbit  the star.
A little thrust can keep the station stationary.  Thus the xboats can
have EXACT coordiates for the station, thus bringing them within minutes
of travel to the station.  Using this routine, you can get an easy one
day turn around, maybe even an hour (and thus the same day).
Theoretically, the cheaper xboat allows you to have many, enough for
daily jumps for sure.

So what do you guys think?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 22:55:15 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: pig boats

Loren types:
>Seth replies:
>> Actually the ship I would hate to live in the most, is the SDB from Book 7.
>10 
>>people in 4 connected rooms (triple-double-double-triple, and a communal
>fresher-> augh! Especially when doctrine states that the boats hide for
months
>at a time.
>That's why I assigned them the nickname "pig-boats" but it didn't catch on.
>WWII subs were called such, and the WWI ones were worse.

Memorable scene from 'Das Boat'.  Crewman is giving a tour right as they
are heading out of port.  They pass by the head.  It's packed (from floor
to ceiling) with food.

"First we eat.  Then we shit."


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 23:12:23 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: pig boats

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Saturday, March 07, 1998 11:08 PM
Subject: pig boats


>Memorable scene from 'Das Boat'.  Crewman is giving a tour right as they
>are heading out of port.  They pass by the head.  It's packed (from floor
>to ceiling) with food.
>
>"First we eat.  Then we shit."
>
There was an interesting passae in one of Brian Daley's (sic?) Alacrity
FitzHugh novels discribing a free trader. In essences every available space
on the ship, barring the Drive room and the cockpit was filled with cargo.
Too the extent that the characters were forced to crawl in passage ways that
could normally been walked through. I've often though we give too much ree
space over in Trav. IMTU I've had occation to fill unoccupied state rooms
with cargo, mostly speculative type stuff, wines and other luxury goods.
When I saw a similar show on WWI submarines it looked much the way I
pictured a Free Trader operating, using all the available space for that
"just in case" small item that might be a treasure to some "native".  Of
course I see the subsidized and Corp. ships really looking down on the "poor
slobs" for this.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"It's a small world. So you gatta use your elbows a lot!"  Unknown bumper
sticker.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 19:53:21 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)

Steinar Knutsen <sk@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote

> - - Some place(s) on the ship could be termed "sanctuaries" of some kind,
>   you never enter if you see that the door is closed or something like
>   that. This needn't be much bigger than your average ship's locker,
>   though with a window. A scheme like this has been used in present day
>   space stations, and the astronauts appreciated the system.

This is done all the time on Aslan ships for what is called "the shrine
of heroes" which ostensibly has a "religious" sognificance.  On larger
ships they even have seperate passenger and crew shrines.  Allegedly
Aslan will not enter the shrine if someone else is already in it. 
Perhaps they need privacy sometimes to cool off from their harsh
culturally demanded norms.  The shrines may be a stress relief point
that is not actually "religious" in nature at all, except perhaps in
the  "God I need some privacy" sense.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 00:33:34 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Joe Pettit wrote:

> I was thinking about a redesign for xboats.  You could simply have a
> spine with jump drives and a flight computer (maybe a little battery
> job), maybe some sort of sensor and comm suite.  Mail packages are
> stored in a cargo module that has a large computer storage with
> independant power.  The cargo module also stores all the fuel for the
> jump in a refined form. This cargo module jacks into the xboat with jump
> programming entered into the computer.  The computer interfaces with the
> xboat and jumps to the next system.  In the new system, the tender
> brings an outgoing cargo module, takes the incoming module and sends the
> xboat on its way.  Back at the station, the incoming module is
> processed, mail is routed into outgoing modules and the used module is
> recycled and refueled.  This reduces the cost of the xboat conciderably
> since you don't need life support or vitually anything but the jump
> drives.  Alternatively, you could keep a cold watch if for some reason
> you feel it is necessary to actually have somebody available for
> emergencies.  I don't really know what an xboat pilot  can do without
> weapons or maneuver drives, so I don't see the need. All the programming
> can be done and stored on the computer when the tender heads out to meet
> the xboat.
>
> The station can be kept outside 100 diameters and NOT orbit  the star.
> A little thrust can keep the station stationary.  Thus the xboats can
> have EXACT coordiates for the station, thus bringing them within minutes
> of travel to the station.  Using this routine, you can get an easy one
> day turn around, maybe even an hour (and thus the same day).
> Theoretically, the cheaper xboat allows you to have many, enough for
> daily jumps for sure.
>
> So what do you guys think?

  By the way, I ran the numbers.  Due to minimum jump drive size of 2 Kl,
the jump 4 xboat ended up being 40 Kl.  After all essentials, there's still
about 17 Kl of space left for mail.  Cost for a combined ship and module
came in at about 5 Mcr, 4 of which is the module computer.  Here's the cool
part, it fits neatly inside a standardized 54 Kl cargo container.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 00:55:35 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

- -----Original Message-----
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: X-boats


>  By the way, I ran the numbers.  Due to minimum jump drive size of 2 Kl,
>the jump 4 xboat ended up being 40 Kl.  After all essentials, there's still
>about 17 Kl of space left for mail.  Cost for a combined ship and module
>came in at about 5 Mcr, 4 of which is the module computer.  Here's the cool
>part, it fits neatly inside a standardized 54 Kl cargo container.
>

What is the total tonnage of the message torp? Does it fit within the 100
sdt minimuim starship tonnage?

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"It's a small world. So you gatta use your elbows a lot!"  Unknown bumper
sticker.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 01:14:54 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Michael D. Peters wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
> Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 12:47 AM
> Subject: Re: X-boats
>
> >  By the way, I ran the numbers.  Due to minimum jump drive size of 2 Kl,
> >the jump 4 xboat ended up being 40 Kl.  After all essentials, there's still
> >about 17 Kl of space left for mail.  Cost for a combined ship and module
> >came in at about 5 Mcr, 4 of which is the module computer.  Here's the cool
> >part, it fits neatly inside a standardized 54 Kl cargo container.
> >
>
> What is the total tonnage of the message torp? Does it fit within the 100
> sdt minimuim starship tonnage?

40 Kl... about 3 dtons.  That was based on the minimum jump drive size... 2 Kl.
This is by TNE FFS rules.  I don't know if that got changed in T4. I couldn't
find any reference to 100 dTon limit of Starships, although I think I saw
something like that in a previous version.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 01:27:16 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

- -----Original Message-----
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: X-boats


>40 Kl... about 3 dtons.  That was based on the minimum jump drive size... 2
Kl.
>This is by TNE FFS rules.  I don't know if that got changed in T4. I
couldn't
>find any reference to 100 dTon limit of Starships, although I think I saw
>something like that in a previous version.
>
T4 FFS 2 has a minimum size on page 12, " The smallest hull that can safely
enter jump space is 1400 cubic meters." I beleive this was written to
coincide with the CT (High Guard?) minimum of 100 sdt. Of course this all
depends on your version of the Trav. Universe. GDW broke the rules
themselves with the infamous jump torps in Leviathan. I'm not sure about FFS
1 (TNE), I have it around here somewhere but haven't looked at it recently.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"It's a small world. So you gatta use your elbows a lot!"  Unknown bumper
sticker.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 19:36:12 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?

>Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 12:42:28 -0800
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
>Subject: Re: Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?
>
>At 12:48 PM 3/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> Is it just me or are all the TL's missing from the vehicles listed in
>>"Emperors Vehicles" ???And if the are the does anyone have the official or
>>even non-official TL's for the vehicles? I mean I can guess that a Grav Tank
>>armed with a Plasma Cannon is not a TL5 Ind. world vehicle. But other listed
>>vehicles are not so easy.
>
>Congratulations, you now own the third worst book ever published for
>Traveller.  The TL's are missing.  According to Leroy, this is a feature.
>(That man has a future at Microsoft.)

I beg to differ, Starships at least had a working design system, EV is not
much more than a collection of pretty pictures.

However if you're looking for a good collection of vehicles for T4, check
out Rob Priors website at:

<http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/traveller.html>

Or better yet buy Infini-V from him (a very good product at a reasonable
price). You can also find a number of useful designs at most Traveller web
sites (I've got six low tech vehicle at mine and I'm adding more).

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"Avec vous votra limpet mine?"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 00:51:06 -0600
From: "Chris Miller" <ironstar@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?

>> Is it just me or are all the TL's missing from the vehicles listed in
>>"Emperors Vehicles" ???And if the are the does anyone have the official or
>>even non-official TL's for the vehicles? I mean I can guess that a Grav
Tank
>>armed with a Plasma Cannon is not a TL5 Ind. world vehicle. But other
listed
>>vehicles are not so easy.
>
>Congratulations, you now own the third worst book ever published for
>Traveller.  The TL's are missing.  According to Leroy, this is a feature.
>(That man has a future at Microsoft.)

- ---------->Allow me to also pile on: There's no data on the weapons mounted
on some of those vehicles included in the book and the mysterious "structure
point" item required for combat is also ignored. Get the Central Suppply
Catalog and check its vehicle construction section at the back. Much better.

Chris Miller

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 01:53:12 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Michael D. Peters wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
> Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 1:28 AM
> Subject: Re: X-boats
>
> >40 Kl... about 3 dtons.  That was based on the minimum jump drive size... 2
> Kl.
> >This is by TNE FFS rules.  I don't know if that got changed in T4. I
> couldn't
> >find any reference to 100 dTon limit of Starships, although I think I saw
> >something like that in a previous version.
> >
> T4 FFS 2 has a minimum size on page 12, " The smallest hull that can safely
> enter jump space is 1400 cubic meters." I beleive this was written to
> coincide with the CT (High Guard?) minimum of 100 sdt. Of course this all
> depends on your version of the Trav. Universe. GDW broke the rules
> themselves with the infamous jump torps in Leviathan. I'm not sure about FFS
> 1 (TNE), I have it around here somewhere but haven't looked at it recently.
>

Like I said, FFS 1 just has a minimum jump drive size of 2 Kl. If we assume this
to be a typo, and it should be 2 dTons, then the 100 ton jump 1 ship would have
2 dTons of jump drives.  Of course, the key word there is "safely".  Safe for
who?  the ship? or the passengers?  Since there's no passengers, we could
violate this rule without much of a handwave.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 04:22:33 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

At 07:00 PM 3/7/98 GMT, you wrote:
>> every ship is presumed to have "compressors"
>
>Not IMTU ... do you have  a "canon" source for this assumption,  I 
>assume that the only compressors are associated with each air lock, and 
>these only recover half the air before equalising pressure and opening 
>to vacuum.
>
>If you have type IV life support, then you will have the high speed 
>compressors required to evacuate the air into high pressure tanks.  My 
>reading of FFS makes this distinction quite clear (at last!).
>
>Simon

Hello Simon and List,
  One problem with the succession of Traveller ship building systems, is
that the original system "BOOK 2" wasn't all that capable of creating naval
warships larger than the limits of something like 5000 tons (IIRC).  Then
HIGH GUARD came out, and overturned some of the assumptions in Book 2.
Then Megatraveller came out and over turned HG, and so on.

  However, if you note, neither CT or HG had life support systems mentioned
in the rules.  Also, Bridges took a minimum of 20 displacement tons that
current FF&S do not adhere to.  In short, the systems are not compatible
with each other.

  It should be pointed out, that despite there being no mention of life
support, one does not assume that there were none, just that it was part of
the engineering section.  Likewise, CT and HG made the assumptions that a
ship could depressurize.  This cannot be done unless you have a compressor
to do it with.  With the advent of the newer ship building rules, more
detail was added in.  Consequently, looking at something and demanding that
it be "in writing" before you accept it as canon is kind of problematical...

  As I have stated, I am not familiar with T4 FF&S for the simple reason
that it does not really jive well with the CT system of ship building.  I
have an unwillingness to learn to use the newer system of ship building if
I won't ever use it.  I still protest the concept of ablative armor.  For
me, a level 1 armor should be proof against a level 1 attack.  A level 2
armor should be proof against a level 1 or 2 attack, and so forth.  In
short, it is not a system that I like.  I won't say it's a bad system mind
you, but not one that I like, and hence will not really try to learn to use
it - unless I wanted to enter a THUDD competition or something.

  But getting back to my original statement purpose.  When arguing a point
regarding what is or is not rational for the Traveller universe, both you
and I need to remember that there are exactly 4 separate Traveller universe
systems out there and try to keep the "arguments" down to a minimum as to
what is right and what is wrong.  I concede that compressors have to be
accounted for in the ship design via TNE or T4.0 and T4.1.  But, when
talking about "canon" sources, remember that CT was there first <Grin>.
And finally:
  When talking about what can and cannot be discussed between ship design
systems, any "constant" that exists between all systems is fair game to be
discussed using "all" system rules.  As such, the "life support costs"
thread is fair game, as is the "minimum size of jump drives" thread.  Every
system I have seen as a "complete" system states that 100 displacement tons
is the *law*.  Anything else is a violation of "cannon". 

   With that last statement comes my final comment:  Nothing says you have
to use the rules as written...

              Hal

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 23:16:06 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

>Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:13:39 +0100 (MET)
>From: Steinar Knutsen <sk@nvg.ntnu.no>
>Subject: Re: Captain's life
>
>On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Sethkimmel wrote:
>
>> of lack of privacy. Especially with coed crews. This could start a new thread
>> - future personal privacy and modesty issues, and gender modesty (ala the
>> Starship Troopers coed shower scene).

>Given a culture where gender modesty exists and the crews are mixed, I
>would think something like this would be thinkable: 

[snip]

>- - People "turn off" gender modesty when on duty, and turn it back on when
>  dirtside and in bigger ships. Real life example: A woman a friend of
>  mine knows has worked posing nude for art classes, one time when she got
>  dressed after a class or something like that, a student happened to walk
>  into her wardrobe by accident. She quickly covered herself and "asked"
>  the student who already had looked away and was getting out of the room
>  as quickly as possible to get out. This was one the students who had
>  been drawing her in the previous class. One of the better examples I
>  know of that modesty can be turned on and off.

Our ideas of gender modesty (and gender roles for that matter) are very
definitly a cultural inheritance and there is no reason to expect them to
apply in the future. Gender modesty is especially prone to disappearing in
times of stress (such as being shot at) when the parties concerned are
usually more concerned with staying alive. Given that starship crews have
been coed since the interstellar wars, I'd hazzard that such concepts are
regarded as quaint relics of ancient history (much like we regard many of
our ancestors ideas and beliefs, subjects for humourous rendition in period
dramas). I'd guess that in basic training, military personnel would be
deliberately bunked coed to break down any such ideas. If gender modesty
can put a ship ad crew at risk, its a fairly safe bet that the military will
take steps to eliminate that risk either by segregating crews (seperate men
and women crews) or by breaking down such inhibitions (much like basic
training breaks down a lot now). Me, I pick the latter option, its a darn
sight easier.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"Avec vous votra limpet mine?"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:16:06 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Chirper

In a message dated 98-03-07 12:59:24 EST, you write:

<< Chirper ... apparently an alien race of some kind. Exactly what kind ? I
  >>

Chirpers are eventually determined to be (about 1000 or so) the devolved or
whatever racial decendents of the Droyne.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:38:53 -0600
From: iresources@juno.com (Vic&Amy Canada)
Subject: Where do I start?

I currently own only the first 7 little black Classic Traveller Books and
a couple of the original Journals.  My time here on TML has made me
desire to try out some of the more current stuff.

I found a hobby shop that actually has all of the "Marc Miller's
Traveller" which I take to be the T4 I keep hearing about.  They also
have 1 copy of the MT Library Data book.  

Since I don't intend to spend hundreds on source material immediately I
would like your opinion on which book(s) should I get first?

I'm not running a campaign right now.  I will probably start or
participate in a PBEM type of campaign in the future.

Thanks

Vic
iresources@juno.com
http://www.iresources.net
http://www.iresources.net/ifc
http://www.evidence.net

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 07:23:17 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Value of Imperial Credit in US dollars

At 11:41 PM 3/7/98, Ian wrote:
>
>The issue with valueing the Imperial credit against modern currencies is by
>definition, you can buy stuff with Imperial credits that you just cant buy
>with US dollars.

<snip>

Of course if a Vilanni starship showed up tommorow filled with TL 11
goodies, they'd be able to name their price; but I think the point was
converting everyday items to Credits so Referees can quickly allow the
players to do some shopping, and give them an idea of how much money they
have.

For example, a few months back my group needed to buy camoflague fatigues
and climbing equipment.  I went to the US Cavalry catalog, found the
equipment, and cut the price in half to convert to credits.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 12:32:29 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

GDW GAMES wrote:

> Andy ventured:
>
> > Icky grey things... sounds like a Puppet Master to me....
>
> <FNORD>
> Tell them something that will assuage their curiosity without revealing the
> true nature of my mission on this planet.
> </FNORD>
>
> It's a Texas thing. I have to wear it or I lose my retirement benefits.

<FNORD>The Texas story isn't working up here in Yankee Boston.  Please inform
control that I need a better cover story with full support documentation (these
Yankee's are nosy) is needed for me to infiltrate further.  On the other hand,
subliminal messages broadcast during Dallas Cowboy football games are penetrating
very effectively.</FNORD>

> Seth saith:
> >I guess the people to ask are the sailors out there (especially now that
> >women are on USN combat vessels).
>
> _or_ we could ask some of the surviving Soviet female tank crewmembers from
> WWII, who served in mixed crews, on the Leningrad front anyway (saw an
> interesting interview with a couple of them recently -- the toilet
> arrangements inside tanks were "use a shell casing and toss it out the
> hatch"). Soviets had women fighter pilots in the GPW as well, and I don' t
> think they were in sex-segregated units either.

They didn't totally.  Several instances of a woman or two with an otherwise
all-male squadron.  But they eventually created a squadron called "The Night
Witches" that was almost women only.  It had one male pilot who flew with 2
aluminum legs.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #255
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, March 8 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 256



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: The things I've seen...
Re: The things I've seen...
Re: Where do I start?
Hello
Re: Value of Imperial Credit in US dollars
What's on Second?
Potential stuff for sale...
GPW Pilots
RE: Xboats and routes
Re: Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?
Re: X-boats
Some language questions
Re: Some language questions
Re: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: Where do I start?
[Announce] [WWW] Freelance Traveller Has Moved!
Trexwan Minivan (TL6)
Vancouver Ferry (TL7)
Tinker's Cart (TL1)
Sumar Chariot (TL1)
Shugalnii Maintainer (TL12)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 12:35:10 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: The things I've seen...

John H Bogan Jr wrote:

> So, Loren, is GURPS Illuminati going to get a
> sidebar plug in the Hiver section?

Gurps: Traveller: The Illuminati
Hmmm . . .
Could be good!

Strephon _was_ assassinated but replaced!

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 09:48:13 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: The things I've seen...

At 12:35 PM 3/8/98 -0500, Bloo wrote:

>John H Bogan Jr wrote:
>
>> So, Loren, is GURPS Illuminati going to get a
>> sidebar plug in the Hiver section?
>
>Gurps: Traveller: The Illuminati
>Hmmm . . .
>Could be good!

Order the corndogs, Earthling!

Templar AI #4853.. er, I mean:

- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 12:54:49 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Where do I start?

Vic&Amy Canada wrote:

> I currently own only the first 7 little black Classic Traveller Books and
> a couple of the original Journals.  My time here on TML has made me
> desire to try out some of the more current stuff.

Want to sell them?

> I found a hobby shop that actually has all of the "Marc Miller's
> Traveller" which I take to be the T4 I keep hearing about.  They also
> have 1 copy of the MT Library Data book.
>
> Since I don't intend to spend hundreds on source material immediately I
> would like your opinion on which book(s) should I get first?
>
> I'm not running a campaign right now.  I will probably start or
> participate in a PBEM type of campaign in the future.

Absolute necessity:
Marc Miller's Traveller (errata available on the net).

Very useful but not indispensable:

Central Supply Catalogue
Emperor's Arsenal
(these both save lots of time in outfitting characters or when the
performance quality of some item becomes important - however, if you've
already got similar stuff in you materials already, you can live without
these).

Very helfpful for running big intersteller campaign:

Pocket Empires  (if contemplating small non-Imperial intersteller empires
and/or generally interested in economic information, etc.)

Imperial Squadrons (if interested in quickly creating squadrons and quickly
resolving space battles).

Milieu 0-Hardcover (allegedly fixes many errata in Milieu 0 and First Survey
- - this is great if you're interested in a campaign set in year 0-200.

Only if you have a specific need / interest:

Alien Archives (a great book you could use with any sci-fi RPG, it has minor
alien races that you can place anywhere/when you want - I guess they're minor
because they aren't a real threat to continued dominance of humaniti - really
a cool book  - I love those "controlled" - if nothing else, this could book
will let you quickly and easily add color and diversity to you traveller
universe).

Fire Fusion and Steel (if you're interested in design the ventilation system
of starship liner or need to make a slingshot - errata available on the net -
calculator required).

Psionic Institutes

Avoid at all costs:
Starships (with apologies to its creators who might be on TML :-)  (The only
real value I found in it is the floor plans, but if that is what you need
Naval Architect's Manual is much more useful IMHO).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 11:02:32 -0700
From: WildBill <panzer@mail.gci-net.com>
Subject: Hello

Hello All


I just joined the Traveller webring last week

My site is up at 

http://freespace.virgin.net/em.bis/panzer88/t4.html


Thanks 

<bold><color><param>8080,0000,0000</param>


The Official Firebase Games Web Site

</color></bold>http://freespace.virgin.net/em.bis/panzer88/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 07:37:01 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Value of Imperial Credit in US dollars

At 07:23 AM 08/03/98 -0800, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>At 11:41 PM 3/7/98, Ian wrote:
>>
>>The issue with valueing the Imperial credit against modern currencies is by
>>definition, you can buy stuff with Imperial credits that you just cant buy
>>with US dollars.
>
><snip>
>
>Of course if a Vilanni starship showed up tommorow filled with TL 11
>goodies, they'd be able to name their price; but I think the point was
>converting everyday items to Credits so Referees can quickly allow the
>players to do some shopping, and give them an idea of how much money they
>have.
>
>For example, a few months back my group needed to buy camoflague fatigues
>and climbing equipment.  I went to the US Cavalry catalog, found the
>equipment, and cut the price in half to convert to credits.

Exactly what I've been doing, though at $3..NZ to Crimp 1.00, which is
roughly the same. I chose this ratio because its what the currency value
table from TNE, Striker, etc gives for TL8 & starport D vs TL15 & 'A'.
Thechnicaly if you're running M:0 you should use a different ratio if
you're using this method.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 12:04:42 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: What's on Second?

>Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 12:42:28 -0800
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
>Subject: Re: Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?
...
>Congratulations, you now own the third worst book ever published for
>Traveller. 

  I'll bite - what's in the number two slot? Number one is fairly,
obvious, and I still haven't been able to trade it away...

  BTW, is there anyone on the list who is in the Netherlands?

  Also, for Mr. Spieker, did you get my mail about the figures?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:07:02 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Potential stuff for sale...



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:15:57 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: GPW Pilots

>But they eventually created a squadron called "The Night
>Witches" that was almost women only.  It had one male pilot who flew with 2
>aluminum legs.

Frank tells me a great story, one of those things where you wish they'd had a
camera present. German fighter tangles with a Soviet fighter, and after a long
dog-fight gets shot down. He bails out and lands near the fighter base, and
while they are debriefing him he compliments his opponent and asks to meet
him. The Soviets laugh and bring _her_ in. He refuses to believe it -- some
kind of joke. Then the woman starts going through this moment by moment
account, telling exactly what he did, and exactly what she did. According to
witnesses, the look on the German's face was priceless as he realized he had
really been shot down by the tiny little woman standing before him. 

Nice moment, one that deserves some aviation artist to memorialize it...

Ob Trav: This has almost nothing to do with Traveller, except that to
illustrate that people are capable of great things regardless of gender, a
point which Traveller has tried to make repeatedly over the years..

Loren Wiseman 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:39:41 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: Xboats and routes

And reflected in the charactor generation rules!  That's why 'Scout' used 
to be the legitimate way to dispose of a charactor that rolled up badly... 
 :)

douglas

- ----------
From: 	Sethkimmel[SMTP:Sethkimmel@aol.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, March 04, 1998 4:51 PM
To: 	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 	Re: Xboats and routes

actually, it's BOTH that are left out, though the X boat is a book 2 
design;
not a high guard one. Their is no room in the engine compartment for a 
power
plant and a manuever drive as well as a Jump 4 drive. This probably 
explains
the 3 day post jump life support (as opposed to 4 weeks (minimum) with a 
power
plant). I personally think 3 days is an unsafe margin. I guess the IISS has 
no
pilot's union.  :-)

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:02:33 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:

>I beg to differ, Starships at least had a working design system, EV is not
>much more than a collection of pretty pictures.

I agree about Starships. The worst Traveller product has to be "The
Annililik Run" though...

>Or better yet buy Infini-V from him (a very good product at a reasonable
>price). You can also find a number of useful designs at most Traveller web
>sites (I've got six low tech vehicle at mine and I'm adding more).

BITS maintains the official Infini-V Support Site in the Traveller Section at:

http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/

The demo version of the Mac software is downloadable from the site. The PC
software is planned for April 98. The demo is fully functional except for
save and print, which are disabled.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:58:10 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

"Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com> wrote:
>GDW broke the rules
>themselves with the infamous jump torps in Leviathan. I'm not sure about FFS
>1 (TNE), I have it around here somewhere but haven't looked at it recently.

IG broke the rules (surprise surprise!) in "Missions of State" in 'All the
Universe's a Stage" when they imply that the Vrast(*) uses a jump capable
message torpedo. There again, the first two scenarios in that book break
canon liberally. Some of them are excellent though...

Review will follow.

Dom

(*) Also break the no-FTL commo rule with Psionics...

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:17:14 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Some language questions

Fellows of the College of Xenolinguists,

1. What is the word for 'Aslan' (i.e. member of the Aslan species) in the
Aslan language? 'Aslan' can't even be pronounced by most of them.

2. What do the Vargr call themselves as a race, or are they too fractious
to be able to conceive of a general term for their species?

3. Is the final 'e' on 'Droyne' pronounced?

thanks in anticipation,
Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:13:17 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Some language questions

>3. Is the final 'e' on 'Droyne' pronounced?
>


I have never pronounced Droyne with the final "e". Always with one syllable.

New word: Solomani
How is Solomani pronounced?

I will try to explain my way and a friends way.

1) Sal - oh - mahn - e

2) Sah - lam - neye

Another: Zhodani

1) Zodd - an - e

2) Zah - da - neye

Another: Vilani

1) Vill - on - e

2) Vill - a - neye

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:21:03 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...

Sir;

What stuff? I only got the header and footer of your post.

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 20:53:38 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Where do I start?

iresources@juno.com (Vic&Amy Canada) writes:
>Since I don't intend to spend hundreds on source material immediately I
>would like your opinion on which book(s) should I get first?

If you can cope with the LBBs until Marc is finished T4.1 (the revised
rules), I'd recommend waiting on the rulebook.  (Failing that I have an
extra signed copy, we could work something out.)

If you like designing vehicles get "Fire Fusion & Steel". For all the
typesetting errors, it is a good book and the errata are available. If you
don't like designing vehicles, planes, spaceships, etc then don't buy this
book.

You will almost certainly like "Central Supply Catalogue". It is a
collection of equipment, with a vehicle design sequence thrown in.
Unfortunately the sequence isn't compatible with FFS, and breaks down at
low tech levels, and doesn't require crews for even really large engines,
but it's still pretty decent. (What this means is that you as a referee
have to exercise some dicretion about what designs are valid in your game,
that's all.)

For background, I would recommend either "Milieu 0" or "Milieu 0
Campaign". M0 is a sourcebook about the early Imperium, with all the dirt.
M0C is M0 plus the maps from "First Survey", plus a few extra pages. As I
can't really recommend "First Survey", I suggest looking at both products
and deciding whether you would use the maps or not.

Although it's a bit heavy on the number crunching, "Pocket Empires" is
invaluable if you want to run adventures where the players are able to
make decisions affecting whole worlds. If your game is at a smaller scale
then you don't need this book (unless you really like working out the
economics of your own setting).

"Starships" is mostly an abomination. The ship design sequence is nice,
but the ships in the book are not necessarily designed using any sequence,
and it is overpriced. The deckplans are poorly drawn.  Besides, if you
have FFS you can already design ships.

If you want nicer deckplans, get "Naval Architects Manual". Personally I
find the designs a bit spacious, but they do make great setting for
firefights. This is definately a read-before-buying one though.

"Imperial Squadrons" is great if you are into naval battles and
operations, otherwise fairly useless. Depends on what your campaign is
like.

"Anomalies" is not very good, and contains inconsistencies with other
published material.

"Emperor's Vehicles" can be missed. The designs are missing basic
information (tech level, passenger capabilities...).

"Psionic Institutes" would be handy if you plan to use psionics in your
campaign, otherwise give it a miss. (It's a good book, but focused.)

"Emperor's Arsenal" is pretty good, for a weapons catalogue. I would have
liked to see a design sequence for the weapons, mind you. Also, if your
gamers don't shop for firearms then you could put this one low down on the
list.

Finally, the two adventures ("Long Way Home" and "Gateway") are available
as a single book from CORE. The CORE edition has the drawing printed
correctly, so I recommend you get the CORE edition rather than the two IG
editions.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 02:58:21 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [Announce] [WWW] Freelance Traveller Has Moved!

Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller
Resource, has moved!

Our new URL is http://www.tightbeam.com/FreelanceTraveller/.

We _will_ maintain the same high-quality information that we have
supplied you with in the past, _plus_ we have plans to bring you
features and capabilities that were not previously possible.

We know that there's a problem with our Feedback form; for now,
just send a regular email message to freetrav@hotmail.com with
feedback or questions.

Watch this space for announcements of new features!
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
freetrav@hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 21:55:45 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Trexwan Minivan (TL6)

Trexwan Minivan (TL6)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     1.00 displacement ton box;  4.29 tonnes;  kCr 33.8
Chassis:
     14.0 kL box (3.7 m long x 1.9 m wide x 1.9 m high);  
Structure: 168 kg of fiber laminate, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.13 cm thick,
1 armour rating
     
Performance:
     400 kW TL4 internal combustion engine; Fuel: 320 L of hydrocarbons
(320 kg), 8 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 400 kW wheels; 
Maximum Speed: 84 km/h loaded, 117 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 671 km loaded, 933 km unloaded; Agility: +3DM (0.2G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: driver;  1 crew station;  4 roomy passenger seats
Communications:
     No communicators installed.
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.
Other:
     Options: automatic sunroof
     2.42 kL of cargo space (1.21 tonnes)

Perfect for a growing family, theslow but spacious Trexwan is popular
among the middle class of many low-tech worlds. 


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 21:56:11 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Vancouver Ferry (TL7)

Vancouver Ferry (TL7)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     4.00 displacement ton box;  12.3 tonnes;  kCr 60.9
Chassis:
     56.0 kL box (5.9 m long x 3.1 m wide x 3.1 m high);  
Structure: 424 kg of fiber laminate, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.13 cm thick,
1 armour rating
     
Performance:
     1.00 MW TL4 internal combustion engine; 
Fuel: 1.00 kL of hydrocarbons (1.00 tonnes), 10 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 1.00 MW hoverskirt; 
Maximum Speed: 70 km/h loaded, 75 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 704 km loaded, 750 km unloaded; Agility: +3DM (0.1G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: driver;  1 crew station;  20 roomy passenger seats
     Sanitary facilities; Hatches: 4 manual
Communications:
     Regional Radio (10 W, TL7, SmVcl);  Range: 30 km

Sensors:
     Active Subregional Radar (100 W);  Range: 10 km;  Resolution: 50 cm
per km of range

Other:
     Options: wet bar
     Safety Features: fire suppression system
     5.33 kL of cargo space (2.66 tonnes)

The Vancouver is a small passenger ferry used mainly as a shuttle in urban
areas, although some vehicles in the class are used for long distance
transportation. 

The vehicle is well equipped with safety features, from its subregional
radar to a full fire suppression system. Passenger comfort is assured with
roomy seats, a wet bar, and sanitary facilities. 


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:16:05 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Tinker's Cart (TL1)

Tinker's Cart (TL1)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: uses draft team, realistic unloaded speed,
realistic stress.

Summary:
     0.20 displacement ton box;  9.53 tonnes;  kCr 10.7
Chassis:
     2.80 kL box (2.2 m long x 1.1 m wide x 1.1 m high);  
Structure: 115 kg of heavy wood, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.30 cm thick, 0
armour rating
     
Performance:
     40.0 kW TL0 draft animals; Fuel: 0 mL of food (0.000 g), 0 hours
supply
     Propulsion System: 40.0 kW wheels; 
Maximum Speed: 3 km/h loaded, 3 km/h unloaded; Range: 0 km; Agility: +1DM
(0.0G); 
     
Crew:
     Crew roster: driver;  1 external crew station
Communications:
     No communicators installed.
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.
Other:
     1.0 m3 of lab space; 1.34 kL of cargo space (669 kg)

Low tech worlds still depend on technology, and the people who keep it
functioning. A housewife who's pot has sprung a leak cannot repair it on
her own; a farmer with a broken plowshare needs a blacksmith to weld the
pieces together. Small settlements cannot support dedicated workers, and
so rely on travelling technicians.

The tinker's cart is simply an enclosed box containing a small workshop
and space for personal effects. The driver's seat is outside, sheltered
from the elements by a small awning. The cart isn't fast, but neither is
the pace of life.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:16:42 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Sumar Chariot (TL1)

Sumar Chariot (TL1)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: uses draft team, realistic unloaded speed,
realistic stress.

Summary:
     0.12 displacement ton open-topped box;  81.4 tonnes;  kCr 56.1
Chassis:
     1.68 kL open-topped box (1.8 m long x 95 cm wide x 95 cm high);  
Structure: 82.0 kg of heavy wood, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.30 cm thick, 0
armour rating
     
Performance:
     400 kW TL0 draft animals; Fuel: 0 mL of food (0.000 g), 0 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 400 kW wheels; 
Maximum Speed: 8 km/h; Range: 0 km; Agility: +1DM (0.0G); 
     
Crew:
     Crew roster: driver, archer;  2 external crew stations
Communications:
     No communicators installed.
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.

The Sumar chariot is typical of many early wheeled vehicles. The driver
and archer stand on an unprotected platform , pulled by a yoke of donkeys.
No food is carried, the donkeys grazing whenever they stop.

The Sumar can be outrun by a man of foot, making it more a symbol than an
effective fighting machine.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:17:18 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Shugalnii Maintainer (TL12)

Shugalnii Maintainer (TL12)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     2.00 displacement ton box;  7.51 tonnes;  kCr 120
Chassis:
     28.0 kL box (4.7 m long x 2.4 m wide x 2.4 m high);  
Structure: 178 kg of structurecomp, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.30 cm thick,
sealed to 1 atm
     Armour: 3 front (1.0 cm), 2 sides (0.30 cm), 2 rear (0.30 cm), 2 top
(0.30 cm), 2 bottom (0.30 cm)
Performance:
     2.00 MW TL12 CI Fusion Plus generator; 
Fuel: 126 L of enriched water (126 kg), 200 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 1.00 MW contragrav with 6 minutes emergency power
and orbital thrusters; 
Maximum Speed: 240 km/h loaded, 285 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 47941 km loaded, 56875 km unloaded; Agility: +2DM (1.0G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: pilot;  1 crew station;  3 roomy passenger seats
     Standard life support, sanitary facilities; Airlocks: 1 normal;
Hatches: 2 manual
Communications:
     Orbital Radio (10.00 kW, TL12);  Range: 30000 km

Sensors:
     Active Subcontinental Radar (10.00 kW);  Range: 300 km;  Resolution:
0.200 mm per km of range

Other:
     Options: recreation space
     Safety Features: Roadgrid, 1 emergency wall patch, fire suppression
system
     4.0 m3 of lab space; power socket supplies 950 kW; 2.36 kL of cargo
space (1.18 tonnes)

Most high-tech worlds have numerous orbital installations, which require
periodic maintenance. The Shugalnii Maintainer is designed to deliver a
fully equipped maintenance crew into orbit


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #256
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Sunday, March 8 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 257



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Rolls Royce (TL5)
Shuttle Down (was re: General Quarters)
Reuter News Van (TL11)
Mavrikios Nuclear Submarine (TL8)
Manx Light Tank (TL6)
Lysander Light Tank (TL10)
Luftwagen (TL6)
Joran Camper (TL11)
Hyland Ambulance (TL11)
Galen Ambulence (TL7)
Bagrii Seige Wagon (TL1)
Belsan Delivery Van (TL5)
Baxzat Speeder (TL11)
Davincii Early Tank (TL2)
Hippocrates Ambulance (TL11)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:17:50 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Rolls Royce (TL5)

Rolls Royce (TL5)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     1.00 displacement ton box;  4.61 tonnes;  kCr 71.6
Chassis:
     14.0 kL box (3.7 m long x 1.9 m wide x 1.9 m high);  
Structure: 449 kg of hard steel, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.10 cm thick, 2
armour rating
     
Performance:
     500 kW TL5 imp. internal combustion engine; 
Fuel: 312 L of high-grade hcarb (312 kg), 5 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 500 kW wheels with smooth suspension; 
Maximum Speed: 88 km/h loaded, 98 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 439 km loaded, 492 km unloaded; Agility: +3DM (0.1G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: driver;  1 crew station;  4 roomy passenger seats
Communications:
     No communicators installed.
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.
Other:
     Options: wet bar
     Safety Features: anti-theft system, fire suppression system
     1.00 kL of cargo space (500 kg)

The epitome of luxury and conspicuous consumption, the Rolls Royce is the
ultimate low-tech luxury vehicle. Relatively fast, the Rolls sports an
exceptionally smooth suspension so that its wealthy passengers can enjoy
the wet bar without risk. 


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:15:13 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Shuttle Down (was re: General Quarters)

Regarding emergency landing procedures for the US Space Shuttle:

Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Don't count on it. They can't track it that well. If it goes down in
some out of the way place, the best info control will have about the
landing site will be the pilot's message telling them where he intended
to *try* for. There just plain *isn't* the sort of global radar
coverage that'd be needed to spot the landing site in many places. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Considering the speed the shuttle has on touchdown, if it isn't landing on the
main strip of a major international airport it's crashing and burning anyway,
no?

Unless those road-train highways in the Australian Outback have really straight
runs...image comes to mind of a bunch of astronauts standing by the highway,
holding a sign that reads "Mir"....


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:19:05 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Reuter News Van (TL11)

Reuter News Van (TL11)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     2.50 displacement ton box;  5.39 tonnes;  kCr 97.7
Chassis:
     35.0 kL box (5.1 m long x 2.6 m wide x 2.6 m high);  
Structure: 413 kg of structurecomp, rated for 2.0Gs, body 0.30 cm thick,
sealed to 1 atm
     Armour: 3 front (0.50 cm, radical slope), 2 sides (0.30 cm), 2 rear
(0.30 cm), 2 top (0.30 cm), 2 bottom (0.30 cm)
Performance:
     735 kW TL11 fusion plus generator; Fuel: 29.1 L of enriched water
(29.1 kg), 100 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 500 kW contragrav with 6 minutes emergency power; 
Maximum Speed: 167 km/h loaded, 182 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 16682 km loaded, 18130 km unloaded; Agility: +1DM (2.0G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: pilot;  1 crew station;  5 roomy passenger seats
     Standard life support, sanitary facilities; Hatches: 1 manual, 2
power; Grav Compensation (1G), Whole vehicle compensated
Communications:
     Orbital Radio (10.00 kW, TL11, SmVcl);  Range: 30000 km

     Regional Maser (10 W, TL11, SmVcl);  Range: 30 km

Sensors:
     Active Regional Radar (1.00 kW);  Range: 30 km;  Resolution: 1.0 mm
per km of range

     Passive Subregional Optical (1 W);  Range: 10 km;  Resolution: 0.200
mm per km of range

Other:
     Options: recreation space, wet bar
     Safety Features: licensed for orbital use, anti-hijack system,
anti-theft system, Roadgrid, 1 emergency wall patch, fire suppression
system
     4.0 m3 of lab space; power socket supplies 100 kW; 862 L of cargo
space (431 kg); illuminated SmartCoat display on all unused surface area

Where there's smoke, there's reporters. With the Reuters news van, any
media organization has all the resources it needs to cover any story. 

The Reuter's roomy interior includes a mini-studio (the lab), supported by
a rating-2 computer system. Additionally, the manipulator arm mounts a
remote-operated camera and the extensive sensor suite is integrated into
the media production system to further enhance media productions.

With roomy seating for up to five passengers, sanitary facilities, a wet
bar, grav compensation and full life support, the Reuter is extremely
popular with its crews.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:19:36 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Mavrikios Nuclear Submarine (TL8)

Mavrikios Nuclear Submarine (TL8)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     20.00 displacement ton cylinder streamlined;  545 tonnes;  MCr 66.9
Chassis:
     280 kL cylinder streamlined (16 m long x 4.7 m wide x 4.7 m high);  
Structure: 2.28 tonnes of light alloy, rated for 1.0Gs, body 12 cm thick,
sealed to 100 atm, 7 armour rating;  Stealth Structure: -3DM against TL8-
military and TL9- civilian sensor     
Performance:
     50.1 MW TL8 fission generator, water-cooled; 
Fuel: 25.1 L of radioisotopes (501 kg), 1000 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 50.0 MW watercraft; 
Maximum Speed: 79 km/h loaded, 85 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 79158 km loaded, 85634 km unloaded; Agility: +3DM (0.1G); 
     
Crew:
     Crew roster: helmsman, 4 gunners, 5 officers, 10 engineers;  20 crew
stations
     Standard life support, sanitary and shower facilities
Armament:
     Weapon                          Damage    Range          Shots   
Reloads   Notes
     Missile, Ballistic-6            100 exp   Subregional    1       9   
     2 gunners
     Missile, Ballistic-6            100 exp   Subregional    1       9   
     2 gunners
Communications:
     Continental Radio (100 kW, TL8, SmVcl, MilSpec);  Range: 3000 km

Sensors:
     Active Regional Sonar (1.00 kW, MilSpec);  Range: 30 km;  Resolution:
10 cm per km of range

     Passive Subregional Optical (1 W, MilSpec);  Range: 10 km; 
Resolution: 2.0 cm per km of range

Other:
     Options: entertainment centre, recreation space, kitchen for 20
simultaneous meals
     Safety Features: 20 emergency wall patchs
     82.6 kL of cargo space (41.3 tonnes)

No description given.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:20:02 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Manx Light Tank (TL6)

Manx Light Tank (TL6)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     1.00 displacement ton box;  13.8 tonnes;  kCr 386
Chassis:
     14.0 kL box (3.7 m long x 1.9 m wide x 1.9 m high);  
Structure: 449 kg of hard steel, rated for 1.0Gs, body 2.0 cm thick
     Armour: 9 front (3.0 cm, moderate slope), 8 sides (3.0 cm), 8 rear
(3.0 cm), 7 top (2.0 cm), 7 bottom (2.0 cm)
Performance:
     1.00 MW TL5 imp. internal combustion engine; 
Fuel: 1.25 kL of high-grade hcarb (1.25 tonnes), 10 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 1.00 MW tracks; 
Maximum Speed: 70 km/h; Range: 705 km; Agility: +3DM (0.1G); 
     
Crew:
     Crew roster: driver, gunner, commander;  3 crew stations
     Hatches: 2 manual
Armament:
     Weapon                          Damage    Range          Shots   
Reloads   Notes
     Cannon, Light-5                 11        Long                   35  
     +1DM, turret1 gunner
     Machinegun, Medium-5            4         Long           200     35  
     coaxialturret
     Machinegun, Medium-5            4         Long           200     10  
     coaxial
Communications:
     Regional Radio (1.00 kW, TL6, SmVcl, MilSpec);  Range: 30 km

Sensors:
     No sensors installed.

Small and maneuverable, the Manx is admirably suited to scouting duties. 


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:20:28 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Lysander Light Tank (TL10)

Lysander Light Tank (TL10)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     3.00 displacement ton box;  49.8 tonnes;  kCr 797
Chassis:
     42.0 kL box (5.4 m long x 2.8 m wide x 2.8 m high);  
Structure: 779 kg of crystaliron, rated for 1.0Gs, body 3.0 cm thick,
sealed to 1 atm
     Armour: 18 front (4.0 cm, radical slope), 15 sides (3.5 cm, moderate
slope), 12 rear (3.0 cm), 12 top (3.0 cm), 12 bottom (3.0 cm)
Performance:
     8.10 MW TL10 fusion plus generator; Fuel: 405 L of enriched water
(405 kg), 100 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 8.00 MW contragrav with 6 minutes emergency power; 
Maximum Speed: 290 km/h loaded, 291 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 28899 km loaded, 29082 km unloaded; Agility: +2DM (1.0G); 
     
Crew:
     Crew roster: pilot, gunner, commander;  3 crew stations
     Standard life support; Hatches: 2 manual
Armament:
     Weapon                          Damage    Range          Shots   
Reloads   Notes
     Cannon, Heavy-8                 19 (17 expVery Long      1       35  
     +5DM, turret1 gunner
     Machinegun, Heavy-10            9         Long           300     30  
     coaxialturret
     Machinegun, Heavy-10            9         Long           300     20  
     coaxialhardpoint
     Missile, Heavy-8                34 (22 expLong           1       3   
     coaxialturret
Communications:
     Continental Radio (100 kW, TL10, SmVcl, MilSpec);  Range: 3000 km

Sensors:
     Active Regional Radar (1.00 kW, MilSpec, DispArray);  Range: 30 km; 
Resolution: 1.0 mm per km of range

Other:
     Safety Features: 3 emergency wall patchs, fire suppression system
     629 L of cargo space (314 kg)

One of the first 'floating' tanks, the Lysander looks like a traditional
track-layer without the tracks. 


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:20:55 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Luftwagen (TL6)

Luftwagen (TL6)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     25.00 displacement ton cylinder streamlined;  45.9 tonnes;  kCr 253
Chassis:
     Gondola: 350 kL cylinder streamlined (17 m long x 5.1 m wide x 5.1 m
high);  
Structure: 1.32 tonnes of fiber laminate, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.13 cm
thick, 1 armour rating
     
Performance:
     1.00 MW TL5 imp. internal combustion engine; 
Fuel: 2.50 kL of high-grade hcarb (2.50 tonnes), 20 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 1.00 MW lighter-than-air; 
Maximum Speed: 82 km/h loaded, 84 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 1638 km loaded, 1675 km unloaded; Agility: +3DM (0.1G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: pilot;  1 crew station;  4 roomy passenger seats
     Sanitary facilities
Communications:
     No communicators installed.
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.
Other:
     Options: recreation space, wet bar
     Safety Features: fire suppression system
     2.00 kL of cargo space (1.00 tonnes)

One of the first private airships, the Luftwagen is slower than many
private cars. However, to those caught up in the romance of flight, this
is a minor consideration compared to the freedom of the open skies.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:21:30 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Joran Camper (TL11)

Joran Camper (TL11)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     3.00 displacement ton box;  10.9 tonnes;  kCr 27.8
Chassis:
     42.0 kL box (5.4 m long x 2.8 m wide x 2.8 m high);  
Structure: 233 kg of structurecomp, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.04 cm thick, 1
armour rating
     
Performance:
     1.00 MW TL11 fusion plus generator; Fuel: 395 L of enriched water
(395 kg), 1000 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 1.00 MW contragrav with 6 minutes emergency power; 
Maximum Speed: 165 km/h loaded, 522 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 164547 km loaded, 520907 km unloaded; Agility: +2DM (1.0G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: pilot;  1 crew station;  5 roomy passenger seats
     Sanitary and shower facilities; Hatches: 1 manual, 3 power
Communications:
     No communicators installed.
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.
Other:
     Options: automatic sunroof, entertainment centre, recreation space,
kitchen for 6 simultaneous meals
     Safety Features: anti-theft system, Roadgrid, fire suppression system
     14.10 kL of cargo space (7.48 tonnes)

Perfect for a family vacation, the Joran is popular with upwardly-mobile
professionals on many worlds. Roadgrid, and entertainment centre,
top-quality kitchen and lots of multi-use cargo space ensure that you can
take it with you when you get away from it all.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:22:01 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Hyland Ambulance (TL11)

Hyland Ambulance (TL11)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     1.20 displacement ton box;  4.04 tonnes;  kCr 70.7
Chassis:
     16.8 kL box (3.10 m long x 2.1 m wide x 2.1 m high);  
Structure: 190 kg of structurecomp, rated for 1.5Gs, body 0.30 cm thick,
sealed to 1 atm
     Armour: 3 front (1.0 cm), 2 sides (0.30 cm), 2 rear (0.30 cm), 2 top
(0.30 cm), 2 bottom (0.30 cm)
Performance:
     1.07 MW TL11 fusion plus generator; Fuel: 42.3 L of enriched water
(42.3 kg), 100 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 1.00 MW contragrav with 6 minutes emergency power; 
Maximum Speed: 446 km/h loaded, 469 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 44509 km loaded, 46774 km unloaded; Agility: +1DM (1.5G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: pilot;  1 crew station;  3 roomy passenger seats
     Standard life support; Hatches: 3 manual; Grav Compensation (1G),
Whole vehicle compensated
Communications:
     Continental Radio (1.00 kW, TL11, SmVcl);  Range: 3000 km

Sensors:
     Active Subcontinental Radar (10.00 kW);  Range: 300 km;  Resolution:
1.0 mm per km of range

Other:
     Options: recreation space
     Safety Features: licensed for orbital use, anti-theft system,
Roadgrid, 1 emergency wall patch, fire suppression system
     1.0 m3 of lab space; 391 L of cargo space (195 kg)

Timely medical attention can be the difference between life and death. The
Hyland, a thicker-skinned varient of the Hippocrates licensed for orbital
use, is typical of purpose-built emergency medical vehicles. It is fast
enough to quickly arrive at an emergency site, and equipped with a two-way
radio so that the attending medics can remain in constant contact with
distant experts. 

Internal facilities provide for two patients and an attending medic in
addition to the driver (who is frequently also a trained medic). (The
"recreation space" is actually working space for the medics.) The small
on-board medical lab is specialized for trauma care.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:22:54 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Galen Ambulence (TL7)

Galen Ambulence (TL7)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     1.50 displacement ton box;  7.41 tonnes;  kCr 67.0
Chassis:
     21.0 kL box (4.3 m long x 2.2 m wide x 2.2 m high);  
Structure: 220 kg of fiber laminate, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.13 cm thick,
1 armour rating
     
Performance:
     1.00 MW TL4 internal combustion engine; 
Fuel: 1.00 kL of hydrocarbons (1.00 tonnes), 10 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 1.00 MW wheels; 
Maximum Speed: 146 km/h loaded, 156 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 1457 km loaded, 1558 km unloaded; Agility: +3DM (0.2G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: driver;  1 crew station;  3 roomy passenger seats
     Hatches: 3 manual
Communications:
     Subcontinental Radio (100 W, TL7, SmVcl);  Range: 300 km

Sensors:
     No sensors installed.
Other:
     Options: recreation space
     Safety Features: anti-theft system, fire suppression system
     1.0 m3 of lab space; 964 L of cargo space (482 kg)

Primitive though pre-stellar medicine is, timely medical attention can be
the difference between life and death. The Galen is typical of
purpose-built emergency medical vehicles. It is fast enough to quickly
arrive at an emergency site, and equipped with a two-way radio so that the
attending medics can remain in constant contact with distant experts.

Internal facilities provide for two patients and an attending medic in
addition to the driver (who is frequently also a trained medic). (The
"recreation space" is actually working space for the medics.) The small
on-board medical lab is specialized for trauma care.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:24:41 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Bagrii Seige Wagon (TL1)

Bagrii Seige Wagon (TL1)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: uses draft team, realistic unloaded speed,
realistic stress.

Summary:
     0.26 displacement ton open-topped box;  10.8 tonnes;  Cr 7537
Chassis:
     3.64 kL open-topped box (2.4 m long x 1.2 m wide x 1.2 m high);  
Structure: 137 kg of heavy wood, rated for 1.0Gs, body 1.0 cm thick, 1
armour rating
     
Performance:
     50.0 kW TL0 draft animals; Fuel: 0 mL of food (0.000 g), 0 hours
supply
     Propulsion System: 50.0 kW wheels; 
Maximum Speed: 4 km/h loaded, 4 km/h unloaded; Range: 0 km; Agility: +2DM
(0.0G); 
     
Crew:
     Crew roster: driver, 2 gunners;  3 crew stations
Armament:
     Weapon                          Damage    Range          Shots   
Reloads   Notes
     Ballista-1                      4         Short          1       2   
     2 gunners
Communications:
     No communicators installed.
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.
Other:
     13.7 L of cargo space (6.85 kg)

Slow and lumbering, the Bagrii is none-the-less fast enough to keep up
with an infantry advance; unlike most seige engines, which must be
dismantled and reassembled each time they are moved. While this mobility
is of little use in conventional seiges, it is very useful against heavy
infantry units who lack cavalry screens. 

Extra ammunition is carried in a separate cart.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:23:47 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Belsan Delivery Van (TL5)

Belsan Delivery Van (TL5)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     0.80 displacement ton box;  6.73 tonnes;  kCr 45.5
Chassis:
     11.2 kL box (3.5 m long x 1.8 m wide x 1.8 m high);  
Structure: 580 kg of soft steel, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.02 cm thick, 1
armour rating
     
Performance:
     400 kW TL4 internal combustion engine; Fuel: 480 L of hydrocarbons
(480 kg), 12 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 400 kW wheels; 
Maximum Speed: 48 km/h loaded, 92 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 577 km loaded, 1105 km unloaded; Agility: +3DM (0.1G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: driver;  1 crew station;  1 cramped passenger seat
Communications:
     No communicators installed.
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.
Other:
     6.43 kL of cargo space (3.21 tonnes)

Most urban areas have a niche for slow-but-spacious delivery vehicles. The
Belsan fills that niche, having room for over 6 kL of cargo. Its slow
maximum speed is rarely an issue for two reasons. First, most of its cargo
is lighter than the design rating, so it can often travel faster. More
importantly, most urban regions have speed restrictions or traffic
patterns that preclude faster travel.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:24:13 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Baxzat Speeder (TL11)

Baxzat Speeder (TL11)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     0.07 displacement ton open-topped needle streamlined;  761 kg;  kCr
10.0
Chassis:
     980 L open-topped needle streamlined (3.7 m long x 51 cm wide x 51 cm
high);  
Structure: 82.7 kg of structurecomp, rated for 4.0Gs, body 0.04 cm thick,
1 armour rating
     
Performance:
     203 kW TL11 fusion plus generator; Fuel: 8.03 L of enriched water
(8.03 kg), 100 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 200 kW contragrav with 6 minutes emergency power; 
Maximum Speed: 948 km/h loaded, 956 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 94493 km loaded, 95258 km unloaded; Agility: -3DM (4.0G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: pilot;  1 external crew station;  1 external passenger
seat; Protection: front
     Grav Compensation (1G), Whole vehicle compensated
Communications:
     Regional Radio (10 W, TL11, SmVcl);  Range: 30 km

Sensors:
     Active Subregional Radar (100 W);  Range: 10 km;  Resolution: 1.0 mm
per km of range

Other:
     Safety Features: anti-theft system, Roadgrid
     12.2 L of cargo space (6.12 kg); illuminated SmartCoat display on all
unused surface area

Raw speed. Sometimes nothing else will do. The Baxzat Speeder is built for
speed and nothing else. The ultralight structurecomp chassis is reinforced
for 4G maneuvers, while pilot and passenger are protected by 1G grav
compensators and a windscreen. Roadgrid and active radar provide
electronic assistance to the pilot. Complete SmartCoat coverage lets the
Baxzat reflect its owner's every mood. 


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:23:20 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Davincii Early Tank (TL2)

Davincii Early Tank (TL2)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     3.10 displacement ton box;  32.4 tonnes;  kCr 29.5
Chassis:
     43.4 kL box (5.5 m long x 2.8 m wide x 2.8 m high);  
Structure: 716 kg of heavy wood, rated for 1.0Gs, body 1.0 cm thick
     Armour: 2 front (8.0 cm), 2 sides (8.0 cm), 2 rear (8.0 cm), 1 top
(1.0 cm), 1 bottom (1.0 cm)
Performance:
     120 kW TL1 rowers; Fuel: 0 mL of food (0.000 g), 0 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 120 kW wheels; 
Maximum Speed: 4 km/h; Range: 0 km; Agility: +3DM (0.0G); 
     
Crew:
     Crew roster: driver, 10 gunners, commander;  12 crew stations
Armament:
     Weapon                          Damage    Range          Shots   
Reloads   Notes
     Cannon, Medium-2                8         Very Short     1       20  
     2 gunners
     Cannon, Medium-2                8         Very Short     1       20  
     2 gunners
     Cannon, Heavy-2                 10        Very Short     1       20  
     3 gunners
     Cannon, Heavy-2                 10        Very Short     1       20  
     3 gunners
Communications:
     No communicators installed.
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.

Lumbering and impractical, this is one of the strangest creations to grace
a battlefield. Born in the fevered imagination of an early inventor,
possibly inspired by stories of high-tech warfare, this early tank pushes
past the limits of practical technology. 

A wheeled large box, armoured in stout ironwood and driven by
muscle-power, the Davincii serves as a mobile artillery platform. Although
it is impervious to small-arms fire, it cannot avoid even heavy infantry
and so must be guarded at all times.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:22:28 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Hippocrates Ambulance (TL11)

Hippocrates Ambulance (TL11)
Designed by Robert Prior

This vehicle was designed using the rules in the Central Supply Catalog,
with the following variations: realistic unloaded speed, realistic stress.

Summary:
     1.20 displacement ton box;  3.85 tonnes;  kCr 37.3
Chassis:
     16.8 kL box (3.10 m long x 2.1 m wide x 2.1 m high);  
Structure: 126 kg of structurecomp, rated for 1.0Gs, body 0.04 cm thick, 1
armour rating
     
Performance:
     1.06 MW TL11 fusion plus generator; Fuel: 41.9 L of enriched water
(41.9 kg), 100 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 1.00 MW contragrav with 6 minutes emergency power; 
Maximum Speed: 469 km/h loaded, 513 km/h unloaded; 
Range: 46788 km loaded, 51181 km unloaded; Agility: +2DM (1.0G); 
     
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: pilot;  1 crew station;  3 roomy passenger seats
     Hatches: 3 manual; Grav Compensation (1G), Whole vehicle compensated
Communications:
     Continental Radio (1.00 kW, TL11, SmVcl);  Range: 3000 km

Sensors:
     Active Regional Radar (1.00 kW);  Range: 30 km;  Resolution: 1.0 mm
per km of range

Other:
     Options: recreation space
     Safety Features: anti-theft system, Roadgrid, fire suppression system
     1.0 m3 of lab space; 660 L of cargo space (330 kg)

Timely medical attention can be the difference between life and death. The
Hippocrates is typical of purpose-built emergency medical vehicles. It is
fast enough to quickly arrive at an emergency site, and equipped with a
two-way radio so that the attending medics can remain in constant contact
with distant experts.

Internal facilities provide for two patients and an attending medic in
addition to the driver (who is frequently also a trained medic). (The
"recreation space" is actually working space for the medics.) The small
on-board medical lab is specialized for trauma care.


(Designed with Infini-V: Traveller's Vehicle Design Studio. Copyright
Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #257
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, March 9 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 258



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: GPW Pilots
Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"
Re: Some language questions
Re: Some language questions
Re: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: X-boats
Re: Sedition, etc.
Re: Some language questions
Re: Value of Imperial Credit in US dollars
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #257
Conspiracy Theory
Re: Why X-boats are J-4 (got long)
Re: Bellerophon, Asteroid Navigation
Re: Xboats and routes
Re: Planetary Inertia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 23:20:50 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: GPW Pilots

GDW GAMES wrote:

> >But they eventually created a squadron called "The Night
> >Witches" that was almost women only.  It had one male pilot who flew with 2
> >aluminum legs.
>
> Frank tells me a great story, one of those things where you wish they'd had a
> camera present. German fighter tangles with a Soviet fighter, and after a long
> dog-fight gets shot down. He bails out and lands near the fighter base, and
> while they are debriefing him he compliments his opponent and asks to meet
> him. The Soviets laugh and bring _her_ in. He refuses to believe it -- some
> kind of joke. Then the woman starts going through this moment by moment
> account, telling exactly what he did, and exactly what she did. According to
> witnesses, the look on the German's face was priceless as he realized he had
> really been shot down by the tiny little woman standing before him.

Loren, that is almost a verbatim rendering of the write up of that incident
broadcast yesterday on A&E (US cable Arts and Entertainment channel).Is that
sychronicity or what?  Or, I know what Frank was watching on Saturday :-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 00:31:41 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"

At 12:34 PM 3/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>PSIONICS
>Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or back),
>whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of right answers.
>
>---
>
>Shouldn't this rather be something like:
>
>PSI = abs(number correct - number incorrect) ?
>...

Good!  Measure by accuracy - either positive or negative!



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:10:47 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Some language questions

>New word: Solomani
>How is Solomani pronounced?
>
>I will try to explain my way and a friends way.
>
>1) Sal - oh - mahn - e
>
>2) Sah - lam - neye



We here in southern Indiana pronounce it: so-lo-man-ee


>Another: Zhodani
>
>1) Zodd - an - e
>
>2) Zah - da - neye


jho-dan-ee (zh is pronounced like the si in vision)


>Another: Vilani
>
>1) Vill - on - e
>
>2) Vill - a - neye


vil-an-ee

At least, that's how we pronounce 'em -- yee haw!(and I'm pretty certain
about the zh thing)

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:01:49 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Some language questions

In a message dated 98-03-08 20:20:19 EST, you write:

<< 
 >3. Is the final 'e' on 'Droyne' pronounced?
 >
 
 
 I have never pronounced Droyne with the final "e". Always with one syllable.
 
 New word: Solomani
 How is Solomani pronounced?
 
 I will try to explain my way and a friends way.
 
 1) Sal - oh - mahn - e
 
 2) Sah - lam - neye
 
 Another: Zhodani
 
 1) Zodd - an - e
 
 2) Zah - da - neye
 
 Another: Vilani
 
 1) Vill - on - e
 
 2) Vill - a - neye
 
 
  >>
Droin. Rhymes with Groin.

Solomani. Solo. Mahn. Ee.

Zhodani. Zho. Mahn. Ee.

Vilani. Vill. Ahn. Ee.

Suerrat. Swear. At.

Marc Miller

That's how we said them around the office.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:01:47 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...

In a message dated 98-03-08 20:25:10 EST, you write:

<< 
 Sir;
 
 What stuff? I only got the header and footer of your post.
 
 Seth
 
  >>


I'll try again.

TRAVELLER
	Traveller was initially published in June, 1977 and within the first 12
months sold more than 10,000 sets.
	Classic Traveller was published between 1977 and 1988 and accounted for more
than 250,000 rules sets. During that time, the basic background for the game
was established.
MegaTraveller shook up the universe by revealing the Rebellion and its
upheaval. The MegaTraveller rules set was published between 1988 and 1991.
	In 1991, Game Designers Workshop undertook a revision in order to emphasize
the military/ mercenary aspects of the game universe. The result was Traveller
New Era, which appeared between 1992 and 1995. 
Traveller 4 (the latest edition of the game system) appeared in 1996.
	A revision of T4 is currently being drafted.

RULES SETS
	T1	Basic Traveller	
	T3	Deluxe Traveller	
	T5	Starter Traveller	
	T6	The Traveller Book (hardcover)	$25
	T8	The Traveller Adventure	
	T9	MegaTraveller (Boxed Set)	
	T10	Traveller New Era	

BOOKS
	B0	Introduction To Traveller	
	B1	Characters and Combat	
	B2	Starships	
	B3	Worlds and Adventures	
	B4	Mercenary	$7
	B5	High Guard	
	B6	Scouts	
	B7	Merchant Prince	
	B8	Robots	

SUPPLEMENTS
	S1	1001 Characters	
	S2	Animal Encounters	$4
	S3	The Spinward Marches	
	S4	Citizens of the Imperium	
	S5	Lightning Class Cruisers	
	S6	76 Patrons	
	S7	Traders & Gunboats	
	S8	Library Data (A-M)	
	S9	Fighting Ships	
	S10	The Solomani Rim	
	S11	Library Data (N-Z)	
	S12	Forms & Charts	
	S13	Veterans	

	SS1	Merchant Prince	
	SS2	Exotic Atmospheres	$3
	SS3	Missiles in Traveller	$3

BOARDGAMES
	G1	Mayday (Ziplock)	$10
	G2	Snapshot	
	G3	Azhanti High Lightning	
	G4	Fifth Frontier War	
	G5	Invasion: Earth	
	G6	Striker Miniatures Rules	
 ALIEN MODULES
	AM1	Aslan	
	AM2	K'kree	$9
	AM3	Vargr	
	AM4	Zhodani	
	AM5	Droyne	
	AM6	Solomani	$9
	AM7	Hivers	
	AM8	Darrians	$9

ADVENTURES
	A0	The Imperial Fringe	
	A1	The Kinunir	
	A2	Research Station Gamma	
	A3	Twilight's Peak	
	A4	Leviathan	
	A5	Trillion Credit Squadron	
	A6	Expedition to Zhodane	
	A7	Broadsword	
	A8	Prison Planet	
	A9	Nomads of the World Ocean	$7
	A10	Safari Ship	
	A11	Murder on Arcturus Station	
	A12	Secret of the Ancients	
	A13	Signal GK	

DOUBLE ADVENTURES
	D1	Shadows/Annic Nova	
	D2	Mission on Mithril/Bright Face	
	D3	Argon Gambit/Death Station	
	D4	Marooned/Marooned Alone	
	D5	Chamax Plague/Horde	
	D6	Night/Divine Intervention	$6

MODULES
	M1	Tarsus (boxed)	$20
	M2	Beltstrike (boxed)	$20
	M3	Spinward Marches Campaign	
	M4	Atlas of the Imperium	
	M5	Alien Realms	

MEGATRAVELLER
		MegaTraveller Boxed Set	
		Players Handbook	$10
		Referees Handbook	$10
		Imperial Encyclopedia	$10
		Referee's Companion	$10
		Rebellion Sourcebook	$10
		COACC	$10
		Fighting Ships	$10
		Knightfall	$10
		Hard Times	
		Arrival Vengeance	
		Astrogators Guide to Diaspora	

SPECIAL PRODUCTS
		Striker Miniatures Rules (no box)	$20
		Understanding Traveller	
		Beowulf Traveller Poster	$20
		Vargr Traveller Poster	
		Imperium Map Poster	
		History of the Imperium Handout	$3
		Alien Hand-Out	$6
		Spinward Marches Map	$3
		Traveller Galaxy Sticker	
		For Use With Traveller Sticker	

 JOURNAL OF
THE TRAVELLERS' AID SOCIETY
	J01	Annic Nova	
	J02	Victoria	
	J03	Asteroids	
	J04	Gazelle	
	J05	Imperium	
	J06	Imperial Interstellar Scouts	
	J07	Champa Starport	
	J08	Broadsword	
	J09	War	
	J10	Planet-Building	
	J11	Striker	
	J12	Merchant Prince	
	J13	Hivers	
	J14	Laws and Lawbreakers	$5
	J15	Azun	$5
	J16	Susag	$5
	J17	Atmospheres	$5
	J18	Travelling without Jumping	$5
	J19	Skyport Authority	$5
	J20	Ways of Kuzu	$5
	J21	Vargr	$5
	J22	Port to Port Jumping	$5
	J23	Zhodani Philosophies	$5
	J24	Religion of the 2000 Worlds	$5

BEST OF THE JOURNAL
	BJ1	Best of the Journal 1	
	BJ2	Best of the Journal 2	$6
	BJ3	Best of the Journal 3	$6
	BJ4	Best of the Journal 4	$6

TRAVELLER NEW ERA
		Survival Margin	
		Brilliant Lances	
		Fire, Fusion & Steel	
		Smash & Grab	
		Players' Forms	
		Referee's Screen	
		Battle Rider	
		Path of Tears	
		RC Equipment Guide	
		World Tamers Handbook	
		Vampire Fleets	
		Striker II	
		Keepers of the Flame	
		Star Vikings	
		Aliens of the Rim: Hivers, Ithklur	
		The Guilded Lilly	
		Death of Wisdom (novel)	
		To Dream of Chaos (novel)	

ORDERING INFORMATION
Pricing reflects relative scarcity of the items. Those with higher prices are
available in smaller quantities. Order with check or money order (we cannot
take credit cards) to

FarFuture Enterprises
1418 North Clinton Blvd.
Bloomington IL 61701

Condition: All items are new (some shop worn).
Shipping: Please add $3 shipping. Include $5 shipping if you are out of the US
and Canada.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:13:24 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...

Quoth CardSharks:
>  JOURNAL OF
> THE TRAVELLERS' AID SOCIETY
> 	J02	Victoria	

Marc, do you really have one or more of these available?  It's unclear
from your list whether you're only offering the ones with prices listed or
not.  (Or are you, as the copyright holder, offering photocopies?)  JTAS
#2 is the only Classic Traveller product I lack, and I've been looking for
a copy for a long time.  I am primarily interested in it for the
information, not so much as a collector.  Can you quote me a price?  (From
other Traveller sales and auctions, a good-quality original might end up
in the $30 or more range, I would guess).

If you really have such, let me know and I'll add the $3 shipping and get
a check out to you ASAP.
 
> FarFuture Enterprises
> 1418 North Clinton Blvd.
> Bloomington IL 61701

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 06:24:56 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 16:00:28 -0800, Scott Ellsworth wrote:

> At 03:45 PM 3/6/98 +0000, James Lindsey wrote:
> >High Passage is a status symbol, just like 1st class is today.  You do not
> >necessarily get anything "substantial" over those lower paying passengers,
> >except the recognition that you've got money to burn.  If you want people
> >to think you're rich/famous/powerful/influencal/etc. by travelling 1st
> >class, it costs MONEY.
> 
> Not quite true, in my opinion, though you may have better information than
> I do.  Today, the differences between first and coach classes are pretty
> minor, if you look only at air travel.  Given the relatively cheap price of
> air travel, it dies a great deal of people movement, and thus other
> transportation systems have had their total passenger range crimped down
> tremendously.  In Traveller, starships take over what most of us would
> consider the roles of ships, trains, and planes, and thus there is easily a
> lot of room for different classes.

My main point: 1st class on most airlines cost 3-5 times as much as coach
(during a 6-12 hour flight), but you don't really get your money's worth if
all you are interested in are the various goods and services that go along
with sitting in those nice big chairs.  Since the free slippers and alcohol
cannot possibly make up the difference between 1st class and coach, you can
pretty much explain it away as a status symbol (ie: "we're better than
those clowns back in coach.  More caviar, daaaarling?").  And we're only
talking about a 10-hour trip, here, not a seven day journey.

> Take a look at the luxury portrayed in Titanic, for a better example.  I
> was recently looking at the luxury levels in the QE2, and the levels are
> quite close together, since people do not cruise on that vessel for a
> simple, cheap Atlantic crossing nowadays, so it does not even have an
> equivalent of steerage/third class passage.  Back just sixty years, there
> was a world of difference between steerage and first class, in meals,

There's supposed to be a *huge* difference between 1st class and steerage.
This thread began based on the differences between High and Middle Passage.

> services, space per passenger, and so on.  Having your own private
> promenade deck, which six cabins on the QE2 do, is quite a luxury.  These
> promenades are, if my sources are accurate, about half the size of the kind
> that would have been on a top flight vessel of sixty years ago.
> Further, the ratio of crew to passengers is much, much higher in the higher
> classes, because higher class tickets involve much more running about.
> This is something that is not true today, because first class tickets and
> coach are only being bought for flights that may hit 14 hours, and usually
> are 2-6.  In the present day, there just is not that much difference,
> because how much more trouble can someone be when they are not permitted to
> move around much, and they will be off the plane in three hours.  When you
> have to put up with them for 9 days, they can be a problem.

Good points all.  But in Traveller, High Passage is only an extra 25% of
the cost of a Middle Passage.  A few list members felt that that was too
great a difference (ie: "what do you get for that extra Cr2,000?").  Hence
my the reasoning behind my previous post :)





James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:26:25 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

>Like I said, FFS 1 just has a minimum jump drive size of 2 Kl. If we assume this
>to be a typo, and it should be 2 dTons, then the 100 ton jump 1 ship would have
>2 dTons of jump drives.  Of course, the key word there is "safely".  Safe for
>who?  the ship? or the passengers?  Since there's no passengers, we could
>violate this rule without much of a handwave.

It was not a typo... at least not for TNE according to Dave Nilsen.  Funny how
this silly "rule" keeps getting broken (in CT:Leviathan and T4:Missions of
State,too ... i'd be surprised if there's not an MT "typo" too...).  That
means 3 out of 4 Traveller versions allow exceptions to the "rule."  

Gary 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 01:29:50 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Sedition, etc.

At 12:36 AM 3/7/98 -0500, LKW 
wrote:
<Snip>...
>Hal speculates:
>> Just trying to get into the mindset of such a man... I almost suspect
>> that maybe a Captain's cabin on a free tramp would be 1.5 or even 2 times
>> larger than a normal stateroom...
>
>Maybe. I seen a few captain's quarters on seagoing ships, and they didn't
>strike me as especially spacious. Anything is possible, however.
>...

Think in terms of the Captain's qtrs on an 18th-19th century sailing
ship...  Ship was home to crew for LONG time - Captain's qtrs weren't
altogether luxurious, but were MUCH preferable to crews' or officers' qtrs,
the former living in common and the latter in closets or wardrooms...



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:33:39 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Some language questions

Andrew Smith wrote:

>Fellows of the College of Xenolinguists,
>
>1. What is the word for 'Aslan' (i.e. member of the Aslan species) in the
>Aslan language? 'Aslan' can't even be pronounced by most of them.

"Fteirle".  I'm not sure of the source of this -- I don't think it's from
the CT period, but maybe from DGP's Solomani & Aslan.  Which I haven't
read... I arranged to buy a copy from someone over the net, but I think
I've been ripped off ;(  The Fteirle call their language Trokh.

>2. What do the Vargr call themselves as a race, or are they too fractious
>to be able to conceive of a general term for their species?

I doubt that -- though no probably there's a certain element that regards,
say, long-haired and short-haired, or pointy-eared vs. rounded-eared Vargr
to be distinct species, just as today there's a certain segment of American
society that regards our inherited 19th-century racial classifications as
representing natural species boundaries.

The issue is that there's no single Vargr language, or even a widespread
Vargr "language of wider communication", so there's no single autoethnonym.
Each of the (presumably) gajillions of separate Vargr languages will have
their own terminology...  I'd just make up something differently wheezy and
slobbery-sounding each time someone asks, and go with that ;)

>3. Is the final 'e' on 'Droyne' pronounced?

If one assumes that it's a Galanglic word, or an older loan fully
assimilated into Galanglic phonology, I'd say no -- rhyme it with "coin".
If one takes the point of view that it's an Oynprith word, in the Droynes'
own language, then the final "e" should be pronounced -- same vowel as in
Engl. "get" (according to the CT alien module on the wee scaly minions of
the Great Old One.)

Low-ASCII IPA transcriptions of my own pronunciations:
Droyne       [dr.Ojn]
Solomani     [soLomA'ni]
Zhodani      [ZodA'ni]
Vilani       [vILA'ni]
Yaskodray    [kTu'Lhu]

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 01:36:45 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Value of Imperial Credit in US dollars

At 06:10 PM 3/7/98 -0500, Ian wrote:
>
>The issue with valueing the Imperial credit against modern currencies is by
>definition, you can buy stuff with Imperial credits that you just cant buy
>with US dollars.
>...

Couldn't one compare in terms of basic needs?  Move away from buying
antimatter and space ships, and take a look at what, say, an average
Imperial citizen might make and what portion of that income might be spent
on food, housing, etc., then look at similar incomes and outgoes for, say,
a US citizen...  I suspect that if a middle-class salary-earner of the
Imperium makes, say, Cr8000 per year, and spends, say, Cr3000 on food and
shelter, one could compare that to average middle-class US food and housing
costs...  Somebody properly grounded in econ would likely make much more
sense than I do, but I think there ARE grounds for comparison...


Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 17:55:15
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #257

A
>Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:15:13 -0500
>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
>Subject: Shuttle Down (was re: General Quarters)

>
>Considering the speed the shuttle has on touchdown, if it isn't landing on
the main strip of a major international airport it's crashing and burning
anyway, no?
>
>Unless those road-train highways in the Australian Outback have really
straight runs...image comes to mind of a bunch of astronauts standing by
the highway, holding a sign that reads "Mir"....
>
>
>Walt Smith

If it lands in the Northern Territory outside the boundaries of a town, it
wont get a speeding ticket. The Northern Territory has a speed limit of
"yes" outside town boundaries.

Now, the Nullabor Highway is sealed (*) and has straight sections of around
100 km at a time. Unofortunatly, it is in Western or South Australia, so
there is a speed limit of 110 km/h, so the pilot may get booked for speeding.

The Nullabor Highway is also on a couple of lanes, so it will take some
fancy driving to land the Shuttle there.

Ian Whitchurch

(*) Being an unsealed road does not disqualify a road from being called a
highway in Australia.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 00:48:46 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Conspiracy Theory

Re: Dulinor

  Well, we know there's a TAS, right?

  And they have the TNS, and probably other services, right?

  So, the shuttles engineer is checking visitors info on the
TAS mailing list, say, and... 
              
        <poof>
                Or, the hamster did it...

  Would _you_ trust one with the drive controls?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:42:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4 (got long)

In mail you write:

> A given Xboat will follow this schedule;
> Day
> 001  Delivered to jump point by tender, Jump on command one hour after
> incoming xboat arrives or 1800hrs Imp.
> 002-008 In Jump
> 008 Arrive destination system, picked up by Tender.  Crew is given a day
> off and put on the next outbound x-boat back as crew.

I suspect that crew either get more time between runs, or else they get
frequent vacations.

<snip>

> Boats do not depart on a fixed schedule, except that a boat is guaranteed
> to leave by the end of the Imperial business day (1800 hours Standard
> Imperial Time) whether an incoming boat has arrived or not.  A Boat will
> always leave one hour after the arrival of an incoming boat, even if a boat
> has left that day already.

Slight problem. It can take more than an hour to transfer the data from
the incoming boat to the outgoing one.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:17:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Bellerophon, Asteroid Navigation

In mail you write:

> Wouldn't you get those kind of densities in the accretion
> disk of a black hole?  The addition of the black hole would add 
> some interesting effects such as the tides that could tear a
> ship or a hurtling asteroid into rubble.

Alas, if you are in the accretion disk of a black hole, you are *dead*.
The radiation levels are *far* above fatal, and the magnetic fields
will fry anything electrical, much less electronic.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:12:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

In mail you write:

> Hello Len,
>   I agree with your analysis regarding how data would be transmitted ect.
> However, I still don't understand why you can't have deep space xboat
> stations?
>   How many times have you seen X-boat routes Curve like a C?  A deep space
> station maintained by freighters bringing in fuel and parts should work
> out rather well.  

Sure, but my point was that you'd *still* have to serve the places
along the "C".

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:43:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Planetary Inertia

In mail you write:

>     Last night my players and I squeezed in an extra session and
> durring on of the breaks one of my two Lady Players, who's hard
> science background is functionally nil.  Made the connection between
> force and moving things and then asked if a big enough "BANG" could
> make the Earth shift in it's orbit, or the Moon for that matter.
> Obvious, OC it would if the "BANG" overcomes the planetary inertia.
> <SIGH> Then she asked us how MUCH of a "BANG" would be required to do
> it.

It's effectively impossible. The force required to cause a *noticeable*
change in a planet's orbit far exceeds the *strength* of the planet.
If the force is concentrated on a small area, whatever is generating it
would push itself through the planet.  If the force is spread over a
wider area, it may break the planet into pieces. 

An explosion *won't* do it, because the blast has so many directions to
expand in. And again, by the time iot got near the required energy,
it'd ruin the planet in a big way.

The "Space:1999" trick with the moon was *completely* out of the
question. If there's enough acceleration to *feel (much less enough to
plaster folks to the floor the way they showed, then the back side of
the moon would effectively be a sheet of rock hanging unsupported over
nothing with that same force pushing *down* on it. In which case it'd
fall apart. 

Just to get the idea across, the mass of the earth is 6e24 kg (that's a
6 followed by 24 zeroes). To give it a velocity of 1 m/sec (added to or
subtracted from its existing velocities) would take an impulse of 6e24
newton-seconds (ie 1 newton for 6e24 seconds, 2 newtons for 3e24
seconds, etc). The energy required is 3e24 joules. That's the energy
generated by converting 33,333 1/3 *metric tons* of matter to energy.
Or 714 *million* megatons of TNT. 

Compare this with the sun's output of 4e26 joules/sec. (133 1/3 times
as much)

And for all that, it'd take 74 *days* for the Earth's position to be
different by one radius from what it would have been if you had done
nothing. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #258
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, March 9 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 259



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: X-boats
Re: Asteroid Navigation
Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry
Re: T4 Stats Test...
Re: What Grey Thing?
Re: General Quarters Procedure
Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"
Re: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: Value of Imperial credits
Re: Starship expenses
Re: Potential stuff for sale...
tsting - please delete
testing - please delete (again!)
Re: testing
Re: X-boats
Re: Chirper
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Potential stuff for sale
Re: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: Chirper
RE: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: Starship Expenses

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:29:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: X-boats

In mail you write:

> The station can be kept outside 100 diameters and NOT orbit  the star.
> A little thrust can keep the station stationary. 

It takes more than a "little" thrust. Luckily you can use a solar sail
to supply it for (essentially) free.

> Thus the xboats can
> have EXACT coordiates for the station, thus bringing them within minutes
> of travel to the station.

Slight problem. It still depends on the relative velocity of the stars.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:01:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Asteroid Navigation

In mail you write:

>>Alas, "asteroid fields" or "belts" such as seen in Star Wars and Star
>>Trek do not and *cannot* exist. If you put that much material that
>>close together it'd collect into *thousands* of planets in months at
>>the most.
>
> Yes but this system could still be used for a swarm of planetesimals.
> (hmmm are 300+ mountain sized rocks called a swarm?)

Well, as I noted, anything *approaching* the densities shown on TV and
in the movies would rapidly condense it semisolid bodies, as well as
grind the larger bodies down into smaller ones.

> IIRC the leading Trojan group of Jupiter has 315 documented members,
> admittedly much small than a STAR ???? whatever belt but it might still
> make for an interesting game session.

I'll have to find out if anyone has an estimate for the volume those
300 bodies are spread through. I expect they will still be at least
*miles* apart, if not *hundreds* of miles.

> I have to admit I'm not clear on how the orbital mechanics work,
> but for this instance I believe it must be quite chaotic.

The relative velocities are going to be *really* low.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:43:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

In mail you write:

<regarding arrivals and departures>

>   The biggest problem overall is then...  How does one store all this
> information, and how long is the data to be preserved before it is purged
> so as to make room for other incoming information?  

What makes you think it'll be erased at all? Port records from the 1600s
are still around. And I suspect that much airline schedule info is
still around even after years. Bureaucracies don't throw away info. And
in any case, this sort of thing doesn't take up all that much space. 

I suggest checking into historical data from back when ships where the
fastest means of communication. It'll show you what *was* done.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:05:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: T4 Stats Test...

In mail you write:

> Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com> writes:
>
>> INTELLIGENCE
>> How sharp and perceptive you are; not necessarily knowing a lot of stuff
>> (which actually comes closer to Education); mental quickness and
>> adaptability; using your mind to maximize the current situation.
>         ...
>> The subject's Int score starts at 3. Total point value for each
>> correct answer to the following questions for final score:
>         ...
>>    3. What is the biggest number you can make with three digits?
>
> The answer given for this question (9^9^9=1.962271x10^77) may not actually
> be correct.  Since no base system was specified, and if we reasonably
> restrict ourselves to accepted base systems currently in use, then the
> correct answer is F^F^F (hex) =4.173816x10^264.

Technically "digit" with no modifier applies *only* to base 10. 
If we allow your dodge then this is the highest number I can write.

		* * * *
		-------
		-------
		-------
	* * * *
	-------
	-------
	-------
* * * *
- -------
- -------
- -------

19^19^19 (using mayan numbers) My calculator doesn't go that high, and
I'm not going to fire up the APL interpreter just for that.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:24:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

In mail you write:

> Andy ventured:
>
>> Icky grey things... sounds like a Puppet Master to me....
>
> <FNORD>
> Tell them something that will assuage their curiosity without revealing the
> true nature of my mission on this planet.
> </FNORD>
>
> It's a Texas thing. I have to wear it or I lose my retirement benefits. 

I'm told that if you get drunk it'll pass out first. It was a fellow
name of "Londo" who had the same problem.

> <FNORD>
> Memo: Ask Control if it is possible that the fnord messages are getting
> through to the list at large. Some curious questions have been asked 
> recently.
> </FNORD>

FNORD is invisible unless one is Illuminated. (Or one has other means
of bypassing the controls).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:34:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: General Quarters Procedure

In mail you write:

>> b) Decompress the ship. This is rather radical, I admit...but it could
>> prevent some chaos that might ensue during an explosive decompression. Of
>> course, this requires (a) to be enacted :)
>
> Decompressing the ship before battle would have detrimental effects on
> cargo, incidentals, and personal items on board. It's difficult to ensure
> everything on board is vacuum-safe.

Cargo containers will be air-tight, just as current ones can handle a
*lot* of exposure to salt water. It's not a good idea to assume that
your cargo *won't* be exposed to vacuum. And as I pointed in posts a
while back, cargo containers may be "stored" in vacuum rather often.

For personal gear, I rather suspect that most will either be "vacuum
safe" or be kept in a "pressure tight" section of your locker. Given
the range of pressure on worlds where you can breathe without anything
more than a filter mask, a lot of items we are used to may not be as
common. Pressurized spray cans for one. And containers for liquids and
"volatile" solids may be different as well.

The one *big* argument against "general" decompression is that it will
deterimentally affect all but the crudest life support systems.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 08:06:41 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"

Bill Rutherford wrote:

> At 12:34 PM 3/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >PSIONICS
> >Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or back),
> >whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of right answers.
> >---
> >
> >Shouldn't this rather be something like:
> >
> >PSI = abs(number correct - number incorrect) ?
> >...
>
> Good!  Measure by accuracy - either positive or negative!

Apologies for missing the prior post.  I don't think that formulation works.
The range of results is close (15-1) but the values aren't evenly distributed.
15-0=15
14-1=13
13-2=11
12-3=9
11-4=7
10-5=5
9-6=3
8-7=1
(and then back up the scale).
The 1 value is an additional problem, since you can't get this with 2 dice
Perhaps it should be treated as PSI 0.

Wouldn't 15-number incorrect work better?  or 0+number correct? (as is
originally suggested)?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 08:19:36 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...

CardSharks wrote:

> TRAVELLER

I'm unfamiliar with someone these products.  Any chance some TMLers might give a one
line review or two?  Especially with regard to material that can be adapted for use in
T4 Milieu 0 campaign.

> RULES SETS
>         T6      The Traveller Book (hardcover)  $25

> DOUBLE ADVENTURES

>         D6      Night/Divine Intervention       $6
>
> MODULES
>         M1      Tarsus (boxed)  $20
>         M2      Beltstrike (boxed)      $20
>
> MEGATRAVELLER
>                 Players Handbook        $10
>                 Referees Handbook      $10
>                 Imperial Encyclopedia   $10
>                 Referee's Companion     $10
>                 Rebellion Sourcebook    $10
>                 COACC   $10
>                 Fighting Ships  $10
>                 Knightfall      $10
>
>  JOURNAL OF
> THE TRAVELLERS' AID SOCIETY
>         J14     Laws and Lawbreakers    $5

Would this be a must for a law student traveller player?  :-)

Thanks,
Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:55:57 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...

Doh!

My mailer screwed the pooch. 

I was testing the waters for a friend of mine who looks like he's
gonna sell all his CT/MT stuff. It is fairly complete. I'm waiting
for him to bring the stack of stuff over so I can throw it out on
the list.  Stay tuned for more details...

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:06:44 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Value of Imperial credits

Bill Rutherford writes:

>At 06:10 PM 3/7/98 -0500, Ian wrote:
>>
>>The issue with valueing the Imperial credit against modern currencies is by
>>definition, you can buy stuff with Imperial credits that you just cant buy
>>with US dollars.
>>...
> 
>Couldn't one compare in terms of basic needs?

That's precisely what I have done in my Traveller Universe. Or rather, many
years ago I worked out a system (inspired by Jack Vance) for my own RPG
system where generic wages and prices were expressed in terms of hourly,
daily, monthly and yearly wages for an unskilled manual laborer (BUSHIDO
did something similar, except it was in terms of minimum food rations). It
worked out very well for my fantasy campaign (of course, for specific
countries I worked out more evokative names for the currencies, but the
silver denarius of the Gardic Empire (1 daily wage) just happened to have
the same weight and buying power as the silver mark of Neuland, etc.).
When I tried to convert that system for use in my Traveller campaign some
years ago I made the happy discovery that 1 credit turned out to be pretty
close to my hourly wage unit. Now, there's serendipity for you! (The same
turns out to be the case for the GURPS $, btw.)

>[...]
>I suspect that if a middle-class salary-earner of the Imperium makes, say,
>Cr8000 per year, and spends, say, Cr3000 on food and shelter, one could
>compare that to average middle-class US food and housing costs...  

By my calculations the average income in Traveller comes to Cr9,600, which
I rounded up to Cr10,000 for convenience. The thing is, if you use the PE
formula for generating Resource Units, you get a figure that you can use
for converting the credits of one planet for the credits of another. (I'm
just not sure that the use of TL as multiplier for the RUs produced
adequately express the difference between various TLs. I suspect that TL
squared will be a better approximation).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:15:34 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

James Lindsay writes:
>Good points all. But in Traveller, High Passage is only an extra 25% of
>the cost of a Middle Passage.  A few list members felt that that was too
>great a difference (ie: "what do you get for that extra Cr2,000?").  Hence
>my the reasoning behind my previous post :)

It appears that either you or I have misunderstood something. IIRC the
original question was about what you get for the Cr2000 (on the average)
that the starship captain (or purser) has to plunk down for each occupied
stateroom, regardless of whether it is occupied by a crewmember, a Middle
or a High passenger. I believe that you've been misled by the fact that
the two figures are both Cr2000.

It's true that the Cr8000 for a Middle passenger is too much for a jump-1
and jump-2 passage and too little for any higher jump, but that's a
different matter (and one that partly depends on the true costs of life
support (but only partly, since even at the (IMO) grossly inflated
figure of Cr2000/jump life support account for much less than 50% of
the total expenses)).
  

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 07:49:47 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...

Merrick, I am looking for Library Data N-Z

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:49:34 +0400
From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: tsting - please delete

Just testing, friends

Andy

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Long			andylong@emirates.net.ae
C/o ICL			andyl@icluae.co.ae
PO Box 7237			+971 (50) 641 8232 (Mobile)
Abu Dhabi			+971 (2) 274688 (Res/Fax)
United Arab Emirates	+971 (2) 335200 (Office)
- ------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:59:31 +0400
From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: testing - please delete (again!)

Sorry, I'm having a glitch here.

Andy
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Long			andylong@emirates.net.ae
C/o ICL			andyl@icluae.co.ae
PO Box 7237			+971 (50) 641 8232 (Mobile)
Abu Dhabi			+971 (2) 274688 (Res/Fax)
United Arab Emirates	+971 (2) 335200 (Office)
- ------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:07:20 +0400
From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: Re: testing

My most humble apologies for sending a number of 'testing' messages to the 
list.

I was trying to reply to one of Marc's messages, and my ISP (or someone) 
decided that it didn't like my (attempts) at humour. I finally managed to get 
my message sent, so you shouldn't get any more 'testing messages from me (at 
least for a while)

Andy

PS - Well, I thought I was being funny. Mind you, Alcohol does that to you (and 
it IS an Arabic word)

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Long			andylong@emirates.net.ae
C/o ICL			andyl@icluae.co.ae
PO Box 7237			+971 (50) 641 8232 (Mobile)
Abu Dhabi			+971 (2) 274688 (Res/Fax)
United Arab Emirates	+971 (2) 335200 (Office)
- ------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 11:12:46 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
>
> > The station can be kept outside 100 diameters and NOT orbit  the star.
> > A little thrust can keep the station stationary.
>
> It takes more than a "little" thrust. Luckily you can use a solar sail
> to supply it for (essentially) free.

Well, the solar sail would be REALLY expensive. We are after all trying to
keep a station at bay. Still, the assumption is that you're in micro gravity
as far as planetary bodies and stars are concerned.  So, compared to a
starship maneuvering, you don't need much thrust at all.

>
>
> > Thus the xboats can
> > have EXACT coordiates for the station, thus bringing them within minutes
> > of travel to the station.
>
> Slight problem. It still depends on the relative velocity of the stars.

How far do they move (relatively) in the course of a week? Assuming they move
at a predictable rate, this can be accounted for in the astronomics test.

Actually, none of this matters since jumps bring you insystem at 100
diameters.  Since you're jumping into a gravitationally empty space, you
should be able to end your jump at essentially zero distance from the station.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:01:34 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Chirper

Marc writes
>Chirpers are eventually determined to be (about 1000 or so) the devolved or
>whatever racial decendents of the Droyne.
It's interesting that it took this long. Either Imperial biotechnology
is astonishingly primitive (no DNA testing/sequencing capability), or 
the Coyne ritual actually alters DNA (as opposed to just selecting what
gets expressed from information already coded into the DNA) and chripers 
really are genetically different from adult Dryone.

(Subsitute name of Droyne genetic material for DNA above as desired - if it's
different enough from Solomani DNA then that might help explain the delay,
as there might not be a big market for Droyne-specific DNA sequencing equipment.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: 09 Mar 1998 12:09 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

Eris quoted prices.  They can be tweaked up to Traveller's 
expensive levels:

Item		cost per person
- --------------------------------------------------
Air Filters	8  @ Cr50		Cr 400
Water Filters	8  @ Cr50		Cr 400
Mtce Parts	10 @ Cr25		Cr 250
Food		30 meals @ Cr10		Cr 300
Reserve Water	40l @ Cr5		Cr 200
O2/N Tanks	8 @ Cr50		Cr 400
Toiletries	Cr100			Cr 100
Cleaning/etc	Cr100			Cr 100
				        ------
		 		        Cr2150

Pre-approved govSpec Better-Business-Bureau Vilani-Standard-Quality
Guaranteed ASMS (Association of Starship Maintenance Sophonts)
Certified parts.  These things are manufactured according to strict
quality standards, and besides the Imperial Monopoly has to make
money.

Air filters and water filters must be changed daily.  Some of
the minor moving parts modules must also be replaced daily (they
and the filters may be recycled at the next starport).  There must
be a minimum of 30 meals per passenger on board, and 10 days of
drinking water.  Life support packages must be bought at ASMS Certified
outlets, and packaging must be done only by ASMS Certified labor at
the ASMS Certified maintenance centers on starport.

8 tanks of reserve air must be on board per passenger, attached to
the stateroom's own life support controls.

- ---

Tightwads with mechanic and electronic skills may try to do this
without ASMS shops, saving Cr but possibly screwing up the job and
damaging ship systems.  ("Fuses?  Never heard of 'em!")

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:02:36 +0400
From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:28:46 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...

Dear Sir;

How much would Adventures 7-13, double adventures 4-6, and Alien modules 2-8
cost in total?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:03:42 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Chirper

In a message dated 98-03-09 12:03:55 EST, you write:

<< >Chirpers are eventually determined to be (about 1000 or so) the devolved
or
 >whatever racial decendents of the Droyne.
 It's interesting that it took this long. Either Imperial biotechnology
 is astonishingly primitive (no DNA testing/sequencing capability), or 
 the Coyne ritual actually alters DNA (as opposed to just selecting what
 gets expressed from information already coded into the DNA) and chripers 
 really are genetically different from adult Dryone.
 
 (Subsitute name of Droyne genetic material for DNA above as desired - if it's
 different enough from Solomani DNA then that might help explain the delay,
 as there might not be a big market for Droyne-specific DNA sequencing
equipment.)
 
  >>
The answer is instead that there was no money in it, and nobody cared. So
these many different reptilian communities that stay in the background and
rarely interact with humans (and because of psionics can be sure most people
don't notice them) just went unnoticed for centuries.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:04:27 -0600 
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: Potential stuff for sale...

On Monday, 09 March 1998 00:02, CardSharks [SMTP:CardSharks@aol.com]
wrote:

Sir:

I would like to purchase these items, if possible:

> 		Knightfall	$10
> 		Beowulf Traveller Poster	$20
> 		Alien Hand-Out	$6
> 	J14	Laws and Lawbreakers	$5
> 	J15	Azun	$5
> 	J16	Susag	$5
> 	J18	Travelling without Jumping	$5
> 	J20	Ways of Kuzu	$5
> 	J21	Vargr	$5
> 	J22	Port to Port Jumping	$5
> 	J23	Zhodani Philosophies	$5
> 	J24	Religion of the 2000 Worlds	$5
> 	BJ3	Best of the Journal 3	$6

> Condition: All items are new (some shop worn).
> Shipping: Please add $3 shipping. Include $5 shipping if you are out
of
> the US
> and Canada.

Can I save the shipping if I come up to Normal and pick them up myself?
:-)

Thanks!

- -Vanya  (aka Vargr1)                                     UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ----------------------------------- The Future is in Beta
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
 "...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." |   dmoody@bridge.com
- --Not-the-IG Pages - http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:10:26 -0600
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

I've had a thought about the kCr 2 per trip expense that's charged for
life support for all passengers and crew.  Since that's kCr 2 per trip,
that comes out to something like kCr 50 per year, right?

A small stateroom costs kCr 40, and half of a large stateroom costs 
kCr 50.  The argument could be made that some of this "life-support"
expense goes into replacing fittings for the staterooms that get too
worn out, as well as for food, recharging air systems, starport fees
for discharging effluvia from the system, replacing towels that have
been stolen as "souvenirs", licensing fees to ISCAP for the ship's
entertainment systems, liability insurance (in case you get sued),
safety equipment (how much do rescue balls, survival kits, fire
extinguishers, medical supplies and all that cost to keep up?), the
cleaning supplies, and so on.

Another sink for some of the money might be for temporarily replacing
stateroom fittings to suit non-human passengers.  Good design would
help some, but you aren't going to carry furniture that works for
everyone, and then cleaning the smell of sulfur dioxide taint out of
the carpet could get expensive.

Anyone have other ideas?

Richard Hough <richardh@walmsley.carcinogenic.com> wrote:

> I notice that a lot of the THUDD ships use small staterooms for middle
> passengers. I don't think this is reasonable; it makes middle passengers
> more profitable that high passengers because you can fit twice as many in
> and mid passage tickets are more than half the price of high passage. Canon
> says high passengers can bump middle passengers, and this is impossible if
> their cabins are different. Moreover, even a full stateroom is pretty small
> for civilians to stay in for weeks at a time, especially for families.

This is coming out of the starship design rules for T4 (at least QSDS),
which state that a middle passenger requires "at least a small stateroom"
while high passengers require a large stateroom.  Obviously, the THUDDD
competitors figured out that kCr 8/2 tons is more than kCr 10/5 tons (I'm
including the ton of cargo high passengers get).

In twenty tons, you can carry
  ten middle passage, small-single or large-double   (kCr 80 - 20)
  five middle passage, large staterooms (single)     (kCr 40 - 10)
  four high passage, four tons baggage               (kCr 40 - 8)
 
The best return is on middle passengers in double-occupancy large cabins
or single-occupancy small staterooms.  I'm sure the THUDDD competitors
went with small staterooms based on the fact that they're both cheaper
and by ruling that small staterooms prevented bumping (and a halving of
their potential revenue).

For argument's sake, let's say that the first option is outlawed.  Then
it looks to me that most ships would outfit cabins based on the third
option; four large staterooms and four tons baggage space.  Carrying high
passengers is barely more economical due to savings in life-support,
even after adding in half of a steward.  Reductions in the cost of life
support might flip the balance the other way, although the steward also
adds value by attracting more passengers to the ship (keeping staterooms
full), which may tip the balance back toward outfitting for high passage
travelers if the reductions aren't too great.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I want to be arguing for abolition of 
the double-occupancy middle passage tickets.  Perhaps one reason why
ships carry high passengers anyway is that despite the fact that they
are less profitable than two middle passengers, there's only so many
people who want to travel middle passage.  Thoughts?

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #259
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, March 9 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 260



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Weird 2d6 System
RE: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: X-boats
Re: Chirper
Re: T4 Stats Test...
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Xboats and routes
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Captain's Life
Twighlight's Peak Wanted
Re: Chirper
Hey everybody, I'm back.
Re: Some language questions
Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted
Re: Captain's life
Re: X-boats
Trav writers' list?
Re: Hey everybody, I'm back.
New '101' type book(s)
Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted
Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted
Re: X-boats
Re: What's on Second?
Re: Where do I start?
Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 09 Mar 1998 13:10 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Weird 2d6 System

Are there any merits in the following system:

Roll 2d6.  Multiply the high digit by 10 and add the low digit.
This yields 21 values:

11			1/21	4.7%
21, 22			2/21	9.4%
31, 32, 33		3/21	14%
41, 42, 43, 44		4/21	19%
51, 52, 53, 54, 55	5/21	24%
61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66	6/21	28%

Is the result any different from the 2D6 "in-order" 11-66 roll,
aside from the reduced range?

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:32:07 -0800
From: jasonw@cylink.com (Jason Williams)
Subject: RE: Potential stuff for sale...

  I'd like to order the following..  Can you confirm availability for these 
items?  I'll dump a Money Order in the mail as soon as I hear back from 
you..

	Thanks,

	Jason
	jasonw@cylink.com

> 	SS2	Exotic Atmospheres	$3
> 	SS3	Missiles in Traveller	$3
> 	AM2	K'kree	$9
> 	AM6	Solomani	$9
> 	AM8	Darrians	$9
> 	A9	Nomads of the World Ocean	$7
> 		Spinward Marches Map	$3

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:32:47 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: X-boats

>> The station can be kept outside 100 diameters and NOT orbit  the star.
>> A little thrust can keep the station stationary. 
>It takes more than a "little" thrust. Luckily you can use a solar sail
>to supply it for (essentially) free.
Thruster-plates are a much better solution, and also (compared to other
costs) essentially free for this tiny amount of thrust.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:35:16 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Chirper

>[Chripers],
>these many different reptilian communities that stay in the background and
>rarely interact with humans (and because of psionics can be sure most people
>don't notice them) just went unnoticed for centuries.

"Eneri! Those damn flying lizards are back on the lawn again!" 
"I don't see no flyin lizards, Martha - go back to sleep."
(Psi-9 wife to Psi-3 husband.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:02:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: T4 Stats Test...

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:

> > The answer given for this question (9^9^9=1.962271x10^77) may not actually
> > be correct.  Since no base system was specified, and if we reasonably
> > restrict ourselves to accepted base systems currently in use, then the
> > correct answer is F^F^F (hex) =4.173816x10^264.
> 
> Technically "digit" with no modifier applies *only* to base 10. 
> If we allow your dodge then this is the highest number I can write.
> 
>                 * * * *
>                 -------
>                 -------
>                 -------
>         * * * *
>         -------
>         -------
>         -------
> * * * *
> -------
> -------
> -------
> 
> 19^19^19 (using mayan numbers) My calculator doesn't go that high, and
> I'm not going to fire up the APL interpreter just for that.

That's a valid point, Leonard.  However, I'd argue that, since the
base system you use is dead (except among archeologists studiing that
culture) and the base system I propose is in wide use, my solution
is more like to fly than is yours. :^)

Conceiveably, since no base system was specified in the question, one
could presumably invent one on the spot with an arbitrarily large
number of individual digit characters and produce a truly *huge*
result.  Given that the base system I chose was so commonly recognized
(within the field of computer science, at least), I didn't consider
it cheating, but rather taken advantage of a loophole in the rules.
As always, YMMV. :^)

        - Mark C.
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       "Where am I... and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 19:04:08 +0000
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

Each Passenger has a Standard Vacc Suit allocated to
their personal use, and it is used during standard safety
procedure training prior to departure.

Each Vacc suit is packaged in a tamper proof container,
prior to issue bearing the certification of the Imperial
Stellar Safety Office.  

Upon receipt of the Vacc suit the passenger will need to
sign form ISSO form 1023 to acknowledge that the Vacc suit
has been received in full working order - as per the 
certification tags on the suit container.

There follows a standard Vacc Suit drill in which all 
passengers must either undertake or sign ISSO waiver form
number 1911.  Following the Vacc Suit drill each person
will be given a duplicate of form ISSO 2112 which details
their instruction.  

Legal note - once the form ISSO 1023 has been signed the
Vacc Suit and its maintenance is the responsibility of the
passenger, so any damage to the suit is the liability and risk
of the passenger.  Should a suit fail due to negligence of the
passenger, then a replacement suit may be sought from the 
estate of the passenger.

Form ISSO 1713 is used in the event that the passenger or crewmember
wishes to use their own Vacc Suit instead of the one that they 
have been issued.


All forms completed are scanned into the data of the responder/
black box and also transmitted to the nearest star base by radio
and or laser comm.


Part of the expenses per passenger is for the certification and
maintenance of each Vacc Suit carried by star faring ships.

Each Vacc suit must be replaced after 26 issues of not more than
two weeks to satisfy ISSO regulations.

If not used in two months the suit must be checked and certified.

Each Vacc suit must be inspected and maintained after each issue
lasting not more than two weeks.



Costs

Per Issue 			400 cr     (assumes Vacc Suit is replaced in 1 year)
Per Certification		 50 cr     (Includes ISSO form pack with the suits
serial number)
Maintenance 		100 cr     (replacement seals, repackaging, cleansing)


These costs are paid out of the 2000cr per passenger and crew for
life support.  It may be that some Captains can reduce the costs
and perhaps offer incentives for crew and passengers to sign form
ISSO 1713.

The TAS advises members to have their Vacc suits certified to ISSO
standards by members of the Institute of Vacc Suit Technicians.

The IVST are a professional body certified jointly by the Jump Space
Institute and the TAS.  It may be noted that members of TAS may 
obtain a 20% discount by using a IVST member for certification and
maintenance of their Vacc Suits.


Starship Expenses

Assume that on average 550cr will be spent per passenger and crewmember
in relation to Vacc Suit maintenance and certification.  This may be
much less if standards are compromised.









Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 14:27:53 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Xboats and routes

Hello Len,

>Sure, but my point was that you'd *still* have to serve the places
>along the "C".

Agreed...

  That is why I am trying to resolve this as both a time issue and as a
service issue.  To date, I am working on identifying the current routes in
Spinward marches, and using the older HG rules, create a series of ships
that would be used in X-boat service.  The next step for me is to determine
times of travel to each of the current locations and eliminate as much
slack time as is possible.
  One problem I see with the X-boat routes is that they include in some
places, jump two distances.  This would be handled by a scout ship courier.
 Think about it...

Suppose you had a line that was linear, with a jump 4 to get to point A,
Jump 2 to get to point B, and Jump 4 to get to point C.  Under the old
system, we use a total of 3 weeks to get to point C.  Under the new system,
we only take 2 weeks to get to point C, while Point B takes 3 weeks to get
the information it used to get in only 2.  However, for every situation
where this time savings occurs, the data/mail gets to the  outer limits
that much sooner.  If this happens at least 6 times between the Capital of
the Imperium and the outermost limits of it's borders - then we will have
shaved off a considerable amount of time.  

  The other advantage of having "short cuts" is that you don't require the
information that is location specific to travel through locations that are
not important to it.  If you are trying to create an Express train route,
you don't route it through every train stop do you?  You route it through
the least distance possible with the least time required.

  All in all, I saying that the Express routes are not *express*.  If the
key limitation to how large an Imperium can get is based upon
communications, Rapid communications, then the *X-boat* routes need to be
maximized, because the government *needs* to have it that way.

                Hal

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 19:14:58 +0000
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

At 20:27 05/03/98 -0500, Hal wrote:
>Consumables such as toliet paper


For a slight increase in cost.

This could have holograms of the people you dislike the most :)



mailto:Cleon-the-Mad@dial.pipex.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 14:36:26 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Captain's Life

From: RSpake2064  [With lots of snips]

<<<<....Here's what its like on a carrier:

Enlisted (E1 to E5) are kept in open bay berthing....  
Senior enlisted (E6) are alike this as well,... 
Chief Petty Officers (E7 to E9) are in berths identical to that of the
First Class Petty Officers, just with nicer bunks (read- a real mattress
and not an inch think mat) and a really kick butt lounge and their own
mess decks.  >>>>>

Not to mention their own video library!

<<<<Officers are the only ones who actually have staterooms....
Smaller Vessels operate much different than this.  

Richard>>>>>

Let me give the Marine Officer viewpoint from deploying on an LHA (a
large troop carrier with flight deck and well deck).  The ship has
berthing spaces and facilities for the Marine unit afloat (office space,
war room, etc.).  For messing (eating), working out, etc., we were part
of the ship's company and "mixed in" with the Navy crew...

Marine enlisted:  As Richard described.  NCO's may have a separate
berthing area, but just as cramped.  Benefit is that they are all of the
same ranks (Cpl/Sgt)

Staff NCO's:  (SSgt for the Marine Corps)  Did not rate being in the
Chief's berthing because in the Navy, E7 and above is considered a
SNCO.  SSgts were given their own berthing area, and as much room as
could be spared.  After all, the Corps is built on the NCOs and SNCOs.

GySgts and above:  Racked in the Chief's berthing.  They became part of
the Chief's mess...

Junior officers (WO - 02):  We were billeted 4 to a room.  Two sets of
bunk beds, two little desks (built into the lockers on the wall), etc. 
No space to really do anything, but could sit in your rack to read. 
(that was our assigned place of duty in General Quarters, BTW).

Captains/Majors/LtCol (03 - 05):  2 to a room.  If there had been a
spare stateroom, the majors would have had their own.  We were too
cramped for that.  XO (major) had his own room with office attached.  CO
(LtCol) had a bigger room with bigger office attached.  For a bigger
unit, a Col (O6) would have bigger yet, perhaps a suit.  

O6 and above were part of the Flag Mess, where he ate with the CO of the
ship, the Admiral and assorted others.  The rest of us lowlifes were
part of the wardroom where we chowed with the ship's officers.  The XO
of the ship (O6) was the president of the mess.

The CO (of USN ships) have awesome quarters (as a general rule).  That
stems in part from their being a representative of the US wherever they
go, and often they would entertain local government officials, etc.  

I remember a time earlier (when I was a kid) staying in the CO's
quarters.  We were being evacuated by the 6th Fleet from Cyprus and
being taken to Beruit (of all places!)  We (my mom, younger bro and I)
stayed in the CO's suite.  Someone else was in the sleeping quarters,
but the carpet was an inch thick, the walls panelled in oak, original
oil paintings on the wall, beautiful leather couches/chairs, color
TV...  And the dining area had a walnut table, china cabinets, chairs,
etc.  He also put his two valets at our disposal to give us anything we
needed to include breakfast, whenever we woke up...made to order.  

I NEVER got that treatment when I was on active duty!

Got longer than I thought.  Sorry.

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 15:14:17 -0500
From: Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net>
Subject: Twighlight's Peak Wanted

I realize this may be a futile effort, but does anyone have a copy of
Twighlight's Peak they'd be willing to sell me?  I'll pay premium.  :o)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 21:21:20 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Chirper

At 08:16 1998-03-08 EST, Marc Miller wrote:
>Chirpers are eventually determined to be (about 1000 or so) the devolved or
>whatever racial decendents of the Droyne.

And they look like what? Where can I find information on them (in current
supplements)? Social structure?


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Linkping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:49:23 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Hey everybody, I'm back.

Okay.  I was only gone this weekend, more or less, but I've battled the
odds and have since come back!  :^)

The "artist" formerly known as "semofetus@aol.com" is now known simply as
"semo@pil.net".  If anyone has tried to contact me, that's my info.  Sorry
for any inconvenience.

That's the good news.  The bad news:  In upgrading my OS, I've lost alot of
stuff.  Almost all of my Traveller files are gone (due to my own idiocy)...
 Most are recoverable from the web, but, I specifically need those things
that I've written in the past:

- - The InterAct music system
- - The review of the concert on Vland
- - The movie review for "Tom Jetland: High Passage"
- - The MicroFoil welding system.
- - And, of course, the "Dress Me Up" doll.

Thanks,
Chris

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:21:36 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Some language questions

8< 8< 8<
> I have never pronounced Droyne with the final "e". Always with one syllable.

My only problem with this, tho' it reflects my pronunciation too, is that
transliterations of foreign words should not include redundant letters. We
have two possibilities: either the 'e' is pronounced, as it would be if it
were a word generated according to the Oynprith set, or it's a Galanglic
corruption of the Droyne word 'droyn' or similar.

Yesno?

Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:12:15 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted

I have Twilight's Peak. I'm not a collector, so I am not sure what condition
to state that it is in. It is in better condition than most of my books.
Only Book 8:Robots looks better. It has a little scuffing and a couple of
cracks along the binding, nothing that damages the book, just cosmetic. All
the pages look fine.

I'm not sure what it is worth, make me an offer. I would consider making a
trade as well.

Shawn
electric-stitch@w-link.net


- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net>
To: TML <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 12:20 PM
Subject: Twighlight's Peak Wanted


>I realize this may be a futile effort, but does anyone have a copy of
>Twighlight's Peak they'd be willing to sell me?  I'll pay premium.  :o)
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 21:10:40 +0000
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

At 21:59 06/03/98 -0500, Joe Pettit  wrote:


>
>My character is the captain in our PBEM game.  She's got a study and a large
>stateroom to herself.   However, she spends a great deal of time scrubbing
>decks and cooking for the crew.

  Aha a Vilani Captain - they regard Cooks as the most valuable member of 
society and thus they would command :)



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:08:34 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Joe Pettit wrote:
> I was thinking about a redesign for xboats
[deletions]
>This reduces the cost of the xboat conciderably
> since you don't need life support or vitually anything but the jump
> drives.  Alternatively, you could keep a cold watch if for some reason
> you feel it is necessary to actually have somebody available for
> emergencies.  I don't really know what an xboat pilot  can do without
> weapons or maneuver drives, so I don't see the need.

If you want to be consitent with the Traveller background, you
really need to presume that even in jump space, you need a conscious
pilot.  Otherwise the space lanes would be full of automatic
cargo carriers.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:10:28 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Trav writers' list?

'Scuse the idiotic resource-location question, but can someone tell me
where & how to get involved with the writers' email list for Traveller that
I've heard about?

Besides my brilliant translations between Galanglic and Sayat ("After the
broad latitude for prophecy when distributing [biologicals] from Vland to
Tauri, a researcher would meet three rewarding one-night stands with perky,
shallow teachers, but the planet best dressed to invent an application of
Tauri's resourcefulness is mendacious at the end of the route") and
forthcoming renditions of Proust and Musil into the original Vilani, I'm
currently working on a hermetic re-analysis of Bemelman's "Madeline"
stories, demonstrating that they document the activities of Sayat time
travellers attempting to prevent the Templars from laying the
mystico-numerological groundwork for Strephon's assassination.

Besides critical review from mad geniuses and SubGeniuses, I shall also
require larger supplies of Pepsi in order to keep my nose and keyboard
properly irrigated.  I am already experiencing a shortage.  Donations
gratefully accepted.

On the plastic arts side, the Sayat Barbie is finished and looking really
quite glamorous, in a heavily armed Dayglo crimson sort of way.
Unfortunately, I don't have a decent camera or the knack for using them.
Eventually, though...  The PMPP Demo is stalled again -- I ain't no good
with power tools after all ;(

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:10:33 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Hey everybody, I'm back.

A CLUMSY TEMPLAR IMPOSTER POSTED:

>The "artist" formerly known as "semofetus@aol.com" is now known simply as
>"semo@pil.net".  If anyone has tried to contact me, that's my info.  Sorry
>for any inconvenience.

WHAT DID YOU ALIEN FREAKS DO WITH SEMOFETUS????  WHO ARE YOU REALLY???

Look what this clumsy ploy did to the Orignal Formula Third Imperium --
don't try it again, please!  No bad imitation robots!

>That's the good news.  The bad news:  In upgrading my OS, I've lost alot of
>stuff.  Almost all of my Traveller files are gone (due to my own idiocy)...
> Most are recoverable from the web, but, I specifically need those things
>that I've written in the past:
>
>- The InterAct music system
>- The review of the concert on Vland
>- The movie review for "Tom Jetland: High Passage"
>- The MicroFoil welding system.
>- And, of course, the "Dress Me Up" doll.

Uh-huh.  A likely story.  Comrade listeros, please be so good as to analyze
this list for the hidden agenda behind this awful plot...

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:24:58 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: New '101' type book(s)

	I am contemplating making a supplement for Traveller that is similar to
the Core/BITS 101 books.  What I am proposing initially is a 111
Mercenaries supplement.  In the supplement, I see a 'casual encounter'
description of the NPC/Character as well as military awards, multiple
notable battles and achievements based on  different 'mileu' for use in any
traveller genre.  The NPC would include items of interest such as, the
NPC's usual demeanor, likely places to be encountered, likely equipment
selections, etc. as well as a 'genre-neutral' detailed background to help
explain some of the character's history and accomplishments.  I foresee the
book being broken down into several sections with several characters to
each section.  With the sections being devoted to the different branches of
the military services such as: Navy, Marine, Army, Scouts, and Special
Ops/IRIS/Ine Gvar/Covert commando types.

	Would this booklet have any type of market?  What would something like
this be worth to the general traveller fan?  What other types of 111 type
books would be sought after?  (i.e. 111 Diplomats, 111
Robots/Androids/Cyborgs, 111 Ultra-Technologies, 111 Ancient Sites, etc.)

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott Spieker

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:48:32 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted

How about a photocopy?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:49:29 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted

Are you willing to sell that copy of Book 8, Robots?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:47:10 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: X-boats

As Mr. Summers suggests...

  Can you imagine a a pilot donning a space suit with tanks for 6 hours,
plus a hookup for external oxygen/water and then taking the FAST drug once
fully in jumpspace?  An external computer/timer will awaken the
pilot/engineer during any emergencies or emergence into real space.  168
hours will pass as if only 5.6 hours to the drugged individuals.  Using
drugs in this manner would permit the people on board the ship to
experience jumps as we experience long atmospheric flights today...

       Hal

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 17:24:48 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: What's on Second?

At 12:04 PM 3/8/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 12:42:28 -0800
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
>>Subject: Re: Missing TL's in Emperors Vehicles?
>...
>>Congratulations, you now own the third worst book ever published for
>>Traveller. 
>
>  I'll bite - what's in the number two slot? Number one is fairly,
>obvious, and I still haven't been able to trade it away...

I don't count Anniligukluguk Run, since I really don't care for
prepacjkaged adventures.

Number 2:  Starships.  Hey, at least QSDS was usuable..

And the winner biggest howler of a Trav4 book is:

First Survey!

Broken stats, horrendous lack of information.  I like to say the most
useful part was the information on Fornast sector.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 11:18:24 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Where do I start?

Vic&Amy Canada wrote:
> 
> I currently own only the first 7 little black Classic Traveller Books and
> a couple of the original Journals.  My time here on TML has made me
> desire to try out some of the more current stuff.
> 
> I found a hobby shop that actually has all of the "Marc Miller's
> Traveller" which I take to be the T4 I keep hearing about.  They also
> have 1 copy of the MT Library Data book.
> 
> Since I don't intend to spend hundreds on source material immediately I
> would like your opinion on which book(s) should I get first?
> 
> I'm not running a campaign right now.  I will probably start or
> participate in a PBEM type of campaign in the future.
> 
> Thanks
> 
My suggestion would be to try and get as much bcakground material as
possible, ie MT library data etc. This is harder to do than I suggest,
but any campaign you run or enter will be based on your or their
preference and may not necessarily be 'current'.  My preference is to
try and blend all versions together using designer's licence. I have to
put my tongue in cheek on several canon rules but I have fun.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:44:02 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted

I didn't think it was legal to make photocopies of the books. If it is true,
I would love copies of all the LBB's... but only if it legal. Marc???

Shawn


- -----Original Message-----
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted


>How about a photocopy?
>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #260
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest        Monday, March 9 1998        Volume 1998 : Number 261



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted
Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted
Re: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: Captain's Life
Re: Chirper
Asst
Re: Some language questions
Re: Captain's Life
Traveller Items for sale or trade
Port Records
Re: Chirper
Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)
Re: What Grey Thing?
Re: What Grey Thing?
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Starship Expenses
Re: Captain's life
Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)
Re: Shuttle Down (was re: General Quarters)
Re: Some language questions
FFS/SSDS questions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:54:25 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...

Dear Sir;

I forgot one. How much is Book 8 (Robots) ?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:56:46 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted

I thought Marc wouldn't mind if I don't accept payment; but yeah, check with
him first....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:57:28 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted

I'm not going to sell Robots, sorry.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Twighlight's Peak Wanted


>Are you willing to sell that copy of Book 8, Robots?
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 15:57:30 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...

At 08:19 AM 3/9/98 -0500, you wrote:

>I'm unfamiliar with someone these products.  Any chance some TMLers might
give a one
>line review or two?  Especially with regard to material that can be
adapted for use in
>T4 Milieu 0 campaign.
>
>> RULES SETS
>>         T6      The Traveller Book (hardcover)  $25

The three Little Black Books combined into one Big Blue Book.

>> DOUBLE ADVENTURES
>
>>         D6      Night/Divine Intervention       $6

This is one (two?) to get.  Night of Conquest has the players trapped in a
large, TL4 city being invaded.  A fairly freeform adventure, the push is
trying to get back their ship, which can easily defeat the invaders,
securing liberty, justice, and fat trading contracts.  Divine Intervention
has the characters infiltrating the grav palace of a theocratic ruler to
deliver a message from God.  Good sneak'n'peak, not good for those who
think subtlety is only firing single shots as opposed to full auto.

>> MODULES
>>         M1      Tarsus (boxed)  $20
>>         M2      Beltstrike (boxed)      $20

Tarsus is and Agricultural world in district 268.  Well done overall, but I
found it to be fairly thin.  Beltstrike does the same for an Asteroid Belt,
with simil;ar results.  If you are a completeness fanatic, go for it.

>>  JOURNAL OF
>> THE TRAVELLERS' AID SOCIETY
>>         J14     Laws and Lawbreakers    $5
>
>Would this be a must for a law student traveller player?  :-)

If you are planning on being the subject of a John Grisham novel...
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 98 00:03:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Re: Captain's Life

On Sat, 7 Mar 1998 19:04:30 RSpake2064 <RSpake2064@aol.com> Wrote...
> as for how i feel about women on combat ships. dont get me started. they
> (teh women on board) have a major double standard. males cant cross
> through their berths even in General Quarters, but they can (and do) go
> through our berths regularly...
>
> have you ever steped out of the shower to meet face to face with an entire
> gaggle of female squids? its not nice. if a male was to make the kind of
> commmets i heard that day... can we say "Tailhook" boys and girls? I know
> you can.
    But OC you silly stupid ignorant MAN, don't you know that woman are
incapable of discrimination? <sigh> I've actually had many Femminist here in
Sodom on the Potomac (Washington DC) say this too me with a straight face and
they BELIEVE IT! <shakes head>

> now i do beleive in the addage "Equal Rights for Equal Risks"...  but i
> also feel that women should have to train on our level, not us training
> on their level (watering down our training only gets more people killed).
    I heard a story once about one of the first women to graduate West Point.
She put in for Infantry and failed something like 80% of all the physical
tests.  The training sargeant took her aside, showed her the scores and
politely asked her to pull out before he had to fail her.  She told him that he
was mistaken and that the test scores had best allow her to pass, when he told
her that he would not change the scores for her...  He was reassigned before
the next day of class and she passed.
    I must admit that at first I discounted that as sour grapes.  Unfortunately
I've since had the chance to talk to a number of training personel in the
various services and they've all said pretty much the same thing.  And before
someone asks how I talked to them... I was working up on Capital Hill at the
time, before the realities of Government disillusioned me and made me more
cynical then I already was. :(

> I saw people get killed and die when their training was harder and more
> strict than most whould handle it.  the way things are going now more
> people will die if the training isnt brought up to a decent standard.
> haveing women in combat who can't lift a streacher, or carry their own
> combat loads are a liablity.
    Out in California about two years back a videotape got out of the Final
Physical Tests required of Firefighters, I "think" this for San Francisco but
I'm not at all certain.  Anyway this is a pass/fail test, you can't do the
basic physical work, after eight/twelve weeks of training I might add, you're
not supposed to become a Firefighter.  Anyway this tape showed the women
failing EVERY test, it wasn't staged, someone had brought along a camcorder
just for the heck of it.  The two scenes that stuck out in my mind were the one
with a woman in gear collapsing as a standard hose rig was lowered on her
shoulder - she was supposed to carry it something like two hundred feet or some
such.  The other was raising the ladder, individually the women simply could
not work the ladder into position, they had to have the instructors help them
and in one case the ladder fell on the woman and knocked her out cold!
    Yet none of the women taking that test were listed as failing and all
should still be serving as front line Firefighters.

    I heard recently that one of the major network news organizations had put
together an "expose" piece about this sort of thing and worse.  The Reporter, a
woman actually, had done a piece of Navy ships and used extra footage gathered
on that for a more honest look.  When it hit the Story Review Committe, the
three women editors blew their stacks, one even called up NOW and got presure
brought to bear from that quarter to kill the story.  They fired the woman who
did the report too, she ended up in some midwest market struggling to climb
back up the "ladder" of market stations.
    Amazing how we never hear about this sort of thing isn't it? <sigh> I
suspect we're going to have to have our asses handed to us here in the US.
REPEATEDLY, before it dawns on the collective political establishment just how
bad things have gotten. <SIGH> I'm not against women or their rights per se,
but as I've said to others.  Women's Rights is inherently discriminatory, HUMAN
RIGHTS are not. ;)

    OB Traveller; this sort of thing HAS to have popped up on the Imperium.
Probably with every new planet they contact, so what would the Imperial Policy
on it be I wonder?

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:13:44 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: Chirper

> Date:          Mon, 09 Mar 1998 21:21:20 +0100
> From:          "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
> 
> And they look like what? Where can I find information on them (in current
> supplements)? Social structure?

   Chirpers appear to be Droyne children (not that this is generally 
known even in 1100).  So they look similar to small Droyne, but 
without any of the caste adaptations, and less intelligent.  They 
have limited social organization, living in small groups largely as 
gatherers.

   I don't know if they are covered in current supplements; my 
information comes from Alien Module 5 and Research Station Gamma.  I 
can type up what they have as Library Data entries if you like.


- --
Edward Swatschek - edjs@mindlink.net

The only truly "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that,
it's all learned. (Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org, in
comp.os.linux.misc, on X interfaces.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:13:35 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Asst

BlooSaid:

> Or, I know what Frank was watching on Saturday :-)

Frank was at a convention on Saturday, but A&E has run the show several times
before. Frank knew of the incident years ago.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:26:39 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Some language questions

Andrew Smith wrote:

>8< 8< 8<
>> I have never pronounced Droyne with the final "e". Always with one syllable.
>
>My only problem with this, tho' it reflects my pronunciation too, is that
>transliterations of foreign words should not include redundant letters. We
>have two possibilities: either the 'e' is pronounced, as it would be if it
>were a word generated according to the Oynprith set, or it's a Galanglic
>corruption of the Droyne word 'droyn' or similar.
>
>Yesno?

Absolutely.

Seriously, I'd just treat it as a loanword from Oynprith, in which the
pronunciation changed to match Galanglic (i.e., 20th century English)
spelling pronunciations.  Overeducated and/or pretentious characters can
pronounce it in the authentic Droy-neh fashion, n'est ce pas?  (Don't you
think that Droyne would look really great in berets, smoking Galloises and
talking about poststructuralism and auteur theory?)

Quickie essentialist language explanation:  Oynprith is essentially Pig
Latin spoken by bumblebees with forked tongues.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 16:44:23 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Captain's Life

At 12:03 AM 3/10/98 GMT, you wrote:

>    I heard a story once about one of the first women to graduate West Point.
>She put in for Infantry and failed something like 80% of all the physical
>tests.

I wonder why she bothered to apply for Infantry when that MOS is blocked
for women (directly combat related.)  She wouldn't have been able to even
ask for it.  I've heard the same story about a female cadet asking for
Armor, or a middie wanting to go into the Marine infantry.  I beleive this
one is an Urban Legend.

>    Out in California about two years back a videotape got out of the Final
>Physical Tests required of Firefighters, I "think" this for San Francisco
>but I'm not at all certain.  Anyway this is a pass/fail test, you can't do
>the basic physical work, after eight/twelve weeks of training I might add,
>you're not supposed to become a Firefighter.  Anyway this tape showed the
>women failing EVERY test, it wasn't staged, someone had brought along a
>camcorder just for the heck of it.

This one I know about, because two firefighters were fired over it.  It was
in Oakland (just across the Bay), and the video was of a run through
*early* in the program.  It was done to show them "this is how far you have
to go"

The firefighters, who were opposed to women serving in "their" department,
leaked the tape to local media and told them it was of the final exam.

Ob. Trav:  On a world where political correctness is the rule, the players
might be tripped up by being forced to hire a completely incompetent
driver/guide/whatever, simply because he's "opressed."
- --
+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
| "Strategy is the art of making use of time  |
|  and space.  I am less concerned about the  |
|  latter than the former.  Space we can      |
|  recover, lost time never."                 |
|         -Napoleon Bonaparte, French soldier |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:50:41 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Traveller Items for sale or trade

	I have some extra Traveller items that I am putting on the block.  Here is
what I have:

	Traveller TNE Deluxe Boxed set (includes the TNE rules, Fire Fusion &
Steel, Poster map, and players aids, dice.  Still shrink wrapped.
(Originally 30.00)

	TNE Players forms.  Character sheets. Still shrink wrapped. (Originally
8.00)

	Brilliant Lances. Still shrink wrapped.  Ship to ship combat system,
including chits, map, rules book, and ship design system for both Traveller
and Brilliant Lances, and of course dice. (Originally 30.00)

	Battle Rider.   Still shrink wrapped.  Fleet ship combat system.  366
color counters, 3 large map sheets, 96 battle resolution cards, 2 game
reference charts, 1 rules and scenario book. (Originally 30.00)

I have the following Traveller Items available for sale or trade:

	The numbers after the items list their 'wear' on a scale of 1-5 with one
being the best condition possible for a used item.

	Rebellion Sourcebook (1)
	Imperial Encyclopedia (1)
	Referee's Companion (1)
	Player's Manual (1)

	Book 6 Scouts (4)
	Traveller Digest #8 (1)
	BOJTAS #2 (3)
	Supplement #13 Veterans (2)
	Supplement #2 Animal Encounters (1.5)
	Double Adventure #6 Divine Intervention/Night of Conquest (1)
	Double Adventure #4 Marooned/Marooned Alone (1.5)
	Double Adventure #3 Argon Gambit/Death Station (2.5)
	Double Adventure #2 Mission on Mithril/Across the bright face (2.5)
	Double Adventure #1 Shadows/Annic Nova (3)
	Adventure #11 Murder on Arcturus Station (1)
	Adventure #10 Safari Ship (2.5)
	Adventure #9 Nomads of the world ocean (2)
	Adventure #7 Broadsword (2)
	Adventure #6 Expedition to Zhodane (2.5)
	Adventure #4 Leviathan (2.5)
	(2x) Adventure #1 The Kinunir (Both 3)
	

If you are interested please reply to: scspieker@ncweb.com

Items that are most sought after for trade:
	101 Robots
	Alien Module #4 Zhodani

	Other items are also sought, just make an offer.

Thanks,
Scott Spieker

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:44:23 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Port Records

Leonard Erickson 

>LeonaWhat makes you think it'll be erased at all? Port records from the 1600s
>are still around. And I suspect that much airline schedule info is
>still around even after years. Bureaucracies don't throw away info. And
>in any case, this sort of thing doesn't take up all that much space. 
>
>I suggest checking into historical data from back when ships where the
>fastest means of communication. It'll show you what *was* done.

S'truth, milord. With my own eyes I have seen passenger lists for vessels from
Germany docking in Philadelphia going as far back as 1740. Useful for
geneologists, doncha know.

I expect Lloyds have records that go back farther than that. A lot of this
stuff is spotty, the further back in time you get (Gawd, what I wouldn't give
to have the publication rights to one intact Roman census). 

Loren Wiseman

  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:09:36 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Chirper

>>>Chirpers are eventually determined to be (about 1000 or so) the devolved
>>>whatever racial decendents of the Droyne.
>>t's interesting that it took this long. 
>The answer is instead that there was no money in it, and nobody cared.

I suppose the mainstream theory pre-1000 (since it's pretty obvious that chirpers/
droyne are at least somewhat related) is that chirpers
are "Droyne monkeys" - a vaguely related not-quite-sentient ancestor 
species. Since every time someone gets a bunch of the little chirper weasels
together for some basic biological experimentation the researcher forgets
where he put them, it's not wholly surprising research didn't progress any
further.      

It still does imply (as lots of other things do) that there's much less
pure research-for-research's sake in the third Imperium - there's no money
in calculating genetic divergence between ape species, but people do it 
anyway.

Using chirpers for twisted psionic experiments leading towards FTL comm, on
the other hand, there's plenty of funding for.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:07:38 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)

Peter Newman wrote:

>This is done all the time on Aslan ships for what is called "the shrine
>of heroes" which ostensibly has a "religious" sognificance.  On larger
>ships they even have seperate passenger and crew shrines.  Allegedly
>Aslan will not enter the shrine if someone else is already in it.
>Perhaps they need privacy sometimes to cool off from their harsh
>culturally demanded norms.  The shrines may be a stress relief point
>that is not actually "religious" in nature at all, except perhaps in
>the  "God I need some privacy" sense.

Hogwash.  You ever see just how HAIRY an Aslan's palm is?  Yeah,
meditation, uh-huh.  Yup.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:07:43 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

Steve Daniels wrote:

>They didn't totally.  Several instances of a woman or two with an otherwise
>all-male squadron.  But they eventually created a squadron called "The Night
>Witches" that was almost women only.  It had one male pilot who flew with 2
>aluminum legs.

Man, the Soviets really _were_ short on equipment, weren't they?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 03:39:18 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

On  9 Mar 98, Kenji Schwarz disseminated foul Sayat propaganda 
by writing:

> Steve Daniels wrote:
> 
> >They didn't totally.  Several instances of a woman or two with an otherwise
> >all-male squadron.  But they eventually created a squadron called "The Night
> >Witches" that was almost women only.  It had one male pilot who flew with 2
> >aluminum legs.
> 
> Man, the Soviets really _were_ short on equipment, weren't they?

Heh. Actually, there was even a book written about the guy... 

(He lost his legs after crashing in a forest, crawled back to base 
and got prosthetic ones... And they wouldn't let him fly again. But 
he, as a true communist, attained his goal. ;>>>)


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
  Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+ 
  PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
    BE ALERT - your country needs lerts. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 22:07:50 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

Robert Eaglestone wrote:

> Eris quoted prices.  They can be tweaked up to Traveller's
> expensive levels:
>
> Item            cost per person
> --------------------------------------------------
> Air Filters     8  @ Cr50               Cr 400

WAY TOO many filters at that price.  I could maybe see a filter that
expensive covering a whole ship for a day.

> Water Filters   8  @ Cr50               Cr 400

ARE YOU NUTS!?   Again, WAY TOO expensive.  You can get water purification
tablets for 5 cr per 250 litres.

> Mtce Parts      10 @ Cr25               Cr 250

Huh?  Parts that wear out fall under Maintenance, NOT stateroom overhead.

> Food            30 meals @ Cr10         Cr 300

I won't really argue this if you're using prepacked meals, but if you've
got a steward and a galley, food cost drops to 25-30%

> Reserve Water   40l @ Cr5               Cr 200

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't unrefined fuel water?  Isn't that 100 Cr
per 14000 liters?

> O2/N Tanks      8 @ Cr50                Cr 400

One TL 12 HP tank holds enough air for 24 man-hours if you recycle the air
(see filters above).  Recharging them cost 10 Cr.  2 weeks = 170 Cr

> Toiletries      Cr100                   Cr 100

Just how much soap do you go through in two weeks?  Outside 10 Credits
Maybe.

> Cleaning/etc    Cr100                   Cr 100

This would be cleaning materials since labor is covered under crew salary.
That's WAY expensive too.

>                                         ------
>                                         Cr2150
>
> Pre-approved govSpec Better-Business-Bureau Vilani-Standard-Quality
> Guaranteed ASMS (Association of Starship Maintenance Sophonts)
> Certified parts.  These things are manufactured according to strict
> quality standards, and besides the Imperial Monopoly has to make
> money.

Just how much are the toilet seats?

>
>
> Air filters and water filters must be changed daily.  Some of
> the minor moving parts modules must also be replaced daily (they
> and the filters may be recycled at the next starport).  There must
> be a minimum of 30 meals per passenger on board, and 10 days of
> drinking water.  Life support packages must be bought at ASMS Certified
> outlets, and packaging must be done only by ASMS Certified labor at
> the ASMS Certified maintenance centers on starport.
>
> 8 tanks of reserve air must be on board per passenger, attached to
> the stateroom's own life support controls.
>
> ---
>
> Tightwads with mechanic and electronic skills may try to do this
> without ASMS shops, saving Cr but possibly screwing up the job and
> damaging ship systems.  ("Fuses?  Never heard of 'em!")

So you're saying its 2000 Credits because of a 200% markup

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 22:20:17 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

> Starship Expenses
>
> Assume that on average 550cr will be spent per passenger and crewmember
> in relation to Vacc Suit maintenance and certification.  This may be
> much less if standards are compromised.

BZZZT... What about Low Passengers.  They'd need the same suit provisions, but their
overhead is only 100cr

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 22:25:10 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

- --------------DFE9FC779BDEE7DA926E56A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Dom wrote:

> At 21:59 06/03/98 -0500, Joe Pettit  wrote:
>
> >
> >My character is the captain in our PBEM game.  She's got a study and a large
> >stateroom to herself.   However, she spends a great deal of time scrubbing
> >decks and cooking for the crew.
>
>   Aha a Vilani Captain - they regard Cooks as the most valuable member of
> society and thus they would command :)
>

A well fed crew is a happy crew.A clean ship is a happy ship.
A captain that spends all her time cleaning can get into all the secrets of her
crew...


- --------------DFE9FC779BDEE7DA926E56A0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
&nbsp;

<P>Dom wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>At 21:59 06/03/98 -0500, Joe Pettit&nbsp; wrote:

<P>>
<BR>>My character is the captain in our PBEM game.&nbsp; She's got a study
and a large
<BR>>stateroom to herself.&nbsp;&nbsp; However, she spends a great deal
of time scrubbing
<BR>>decks and cooking for the crew.

<P>&nbsp; Aha a Vilani Captain - they regard Cooks as the most valuable
member of
<BR>society and thus they would command :)
<BR><A HREF="mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com"></A>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
A well fed crew is a happy crew.A clean ship is a happy ship.
<BR>A captain that spends all her time cleaning can get into all the secrets
of her crew...
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

- --------------DFE9FC779BDEE7DA926E56A0--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:45:27 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)

8<
>
>Hogwash.  You ever see just how HAIRY an Aslan's palm is?  Yeah,
>meditation, uh-huh.  Yup.

It's the dew-claw that makes me wince.
>
>Kenji Schwarz
>kenji@accessone.com

Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:16:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Down (was re: General Quarters)

In mail you write:

> Regarding emergency landing procedures for the US Space Shuttle:
>
> Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Don't count on it. They can't track it that well. If it goes down in
> some out of the way place, the best info control will have about the
> landing site will be the pilot's message telling them where he intended
> to *try* for. There just plain *isn't* the sort of global radar
> coverage that'd be needed to spot the landing site in many places. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Considering the speed the shuttle has on touchdown, if it isn't landing on 
> the main strip of a major international airport it's crashing and burning 
> anyway, no?

In theory it can land on a pretty "normal" runway. It just needs to be
paved, and long enough. The fun part is if there *isn't* a convenient
runway. 

The Shuttle could possibly *land* on a reasonably flat piece of ground.
It'd likely not be salvageable, but there crew would have a decent
chance of surviving.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:22:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Some language questions

In mail you write:

> Low-ASCII IPA transcriptions of my own pronunciations:
> Droyne       [dr.Ojn]
> Solomani     [soLomA'ni]
> Zhodani      [ZodA'ni]
> Vilani       [vILA'ni]
> Yaskodray    [kTu'Lhu]
                ^^^^^^^
That's a pretty poor attempt at properly prouncing the Name, even given
the limits of human vocal apparatus.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 00:52:20
From: 2drapers <2drapers@infowest.com>
Subject: FFS/SSDS questions

I have not been able to find FFS2 yet and have a couple of questions:
(1) do HEPLaR drives have to be powered by a fusion plant (FFS1 said "any"
power plant)?
(2) do ships with Grav Thrusters also need Contra Grav?
(3) if they dont, if you decide to add both thrusters and CG can you use
both at the same time in an atmosphere?  In other words, do they act
cumulatively?
(4) is SSDS in any way inconsistant with FFS2?  If so, are the deviations
posted anywhere?
(5) is there errata for SSDS and is it posted anywhere?

Much thanks.

SD

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #261
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, March 10 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 262



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Chirper
Re: Port Records
Re: What Grey Thing?
Re: X-boats
Robots
Re: Potential stuff for sale...
News
Re: Captain's Life
Info needed
Re: Robots
Re: Port Records
Re: Starship Expenses
RE: Port Records
Re: T4 Stats Test...
Re: What Grey Thing?
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #261
Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry
Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)
Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry
Re: News
Re: Info needed
Re: Starship Expenses

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:28:25 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Chirper

CardSharks wrote:

> The answer is instead that there was no money in it, and nobody cared. So
> these many different reptilian communities that stay in the background and
> rarely interact with humans (and because of psionics can be sure most people
> don't notice them) just went unnoticed for centuries.
>
> Marc

This reminds me vaguely of the different alien types in David Brin's Sundiver
books.  There are two main division's between species: oxygen breathers and
hydrogen breathers, and neither understands the other at all.  Hydrogen breathers
are mysterious and unfathomable to Oxygen breathers and there is very little
interaction between the two because they aren't interested in the same planets
(and I think there is a notion that their brains don't work the same way).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:36:26 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Port Records

GDW GAMES wrote:

> I expect Lloyds have records that go back farther than that. A lot of this
> stuff is spotty, the further back in time you get (Gawd, what I wouldn't give
> to have the publication rights to one intact Roman census).

They do.  Their records were the basis of one of what-his-name's Connections
episode (2nd series I think).  Scary how accurate and detailed these TL (5?)
records are.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:38:59 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

Leszek Karlik, aka Mike wrote:

> On  9 Mar 98, Kenji Schwarz disseminated foul Sayat propaganda
> by writing:
>
> > Steve Daniels wrote:
> >
> > >They didn't totally.  Several instances of a woman or two with an otherwise
> > >all-male squadron.  But they eventually created a squadron called "The Night
> > >Witches" that was almost women only.  It had one male pilot who flew with 2
> > >aluminum legs.
> >
> > Man, the Soviets really _were_ short on equipment, weren't they?
>
> Heh. Actually, there was even a book written about the guy...
>
> (He lost his legs after crashing in a forest, crawled back to base
> and got prosthetic ones... And they wouldn't let him fly again. But
> he, as a true communist, attained his goal. ;>>>)

There was a WWI French pilot that had the same happen to him.  Can't remember the name,
but was treated like royalty when captured by the Germans.  THey even made him a new set
of legs. Reminds me of the film The Grand Illusion.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:04:51 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: X-boats

> Date:          Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:47:10 -0500 (EST)
> From:          HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
> 
> Using drugs in this manner would permit the people on board the ship to
> experience jumps as we experience long atmospheric flights today...

I've been toying with borrowing some ideas/effects from Cherryh's 
work.  

IMTU, possiblymaybeperhaps, the jump will take one week in 
real-space, but only a fraction of that time passes for the ship.  
The jump is uncomfortable and draining to the people on the ship 
(some races requiring drugs to make the jump), and you'd normally 
need food and rest between jumps.  It also takes time recover your 
senses from the jump-transition, so a ship is quite vulnerable at 
this time.  These lead to fully-crewed ships having two shifts, the 
second taking over immediately after the jump.


- --
Edward Swatschek - edjs@mindlink.net

The only truly "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that,
it's all learned. (Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org, in
comp.os.linux.misc, on X interfaces.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:30:46 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Robots

In a message dated 98-03-09 17:53:20 EST, you write:

<< From:	Sethkimmel@aol.com (Sethkimmel)
 Sender:	owner-traveller@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM
 Reply-to:	traveller@mpgn.com
 To:	traveller@mpgn.com
 
 How about a photocopy?
 
 
 - >>

(Private)

You have poermission to make one photocopy of Book 8 Robots and sell it.

Marc Miller

(end private)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:30:50 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...

In a message dated 98-03-09 13:33:36 EST, you write:

<< Subj:	 RE: Potential stuff for sale...
 Date:	98-03-09 13:33:36 EST
 From:	jasonw@cylink.com (Jason Williams)
 Sender:	owner-traveller@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM
 Reply-to:	traveller@mpgn.com
 To:	traveller@mpgn.com ('traveller@mpgn.com')
 
   I'd like to order the following..  Can you confirm availability for these 
 items?  I'll dump a Money Order in the mail as soon as I hear back from 
 you..
 
 	Thanks,
 
 	Jason
 	jasonw@cylink.com
 
 > 	SS2	Exotic Atmospheres	$3
 > 	SS3	Missiles in Traveller	$3
 > 	AM2	K'kree	$9
 > 	AM6	Solomani	$9
 > 	AM8	Darrians	$9
 > 	A9	Nomads of the World Ocean	$7
 > 		Spinward Marches Map XXXXXXX

 
 
 I have everything except the Spinward Marches Map. Please send a copy of this
email, and your address with your order.

Far Future
1418 North Clinton Blvd
Bloomington IL 61701

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:43:31 -0500
From: jvhinkel <jvhinkel@MCI2000.com>
Subject: News

Is there anywhere that I can get a Copy of the Traveller News Service from
1107 to 1120?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:45:00 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Captain's Life

Douglas Berry wrote:

>I wonder why she bothered to apply for Infantry when that MOS is blocked
>for women (directly combat related.)  She wouldn't have been able to even
>ask for it.  I've heard the same story about a female cadet asking for
>Armor, or a middie wanting to go into the Marine infantry.  I beleive this
>one is an Urban Legend.

No, it's really true.  In fact, a woman friend of mine told me so, and she
didn't approve of it either!!!!   It's just that the liberal-biased media
is trying to whitewash it over with snobbish dismissals like "it's just an
urban legend", like they usually do, since they don't give a flip about
destroying America's combat-readiness and force-projection ability.

>The firefighters, who were opposed to women serving in "their" department,
>leaked the tape to local media and told them it was of the final exam.

Nice try... Commie pinko devil worshipping 'Frisco-dwelling spin-doctor,
you.  Very clever attempt to obfuscate what really happened.  Very clever
indeed.  Only a leftist establishment intellectual would have thought up a
story like that.

>Ob. Trav:  On a world where political correctness is the rule, the players
>might be tripped up by being forced to hire a completely incompetent
>driver/guide/whatever, simply because he's "opressed."

ObTrav: On a world where the ideas underlying political correctness are
unheard of, the players might be tripped up by being forced to deal with
completely incompetent clerks, technicians, waiters, guides, lawyers,
brokers, and police, simply because they're the ones who were born on lucky
days/not redheads/have large foreheads/go to the right churches/trace their
ancestry to East Ruritania/belong to an endogamous group of wealthier
families... oops, wait, that's the Imperium.  Never mind.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:57:00 -0500
From: jvhinkel <jvhinkel@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Info needed

Can anybody please tell me about the following:

	1)	Pocket Universes.

	2)	Portals.

	3)	The Ancients.

	4)	Traveller News Service reports from around 1106 to 1125.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:00:17 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Robots

I'm pretty sure my friend is selling Robots. If I recall, it is
pristine, too.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:07:32 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Port Records

At 12:36 AM 10/03/98 -0500, Stephen wrote:
>
>
>GDW GAMES wrote:
>
>> I expect Lloyds have records that go back farther than that. A lot of this
>> stuff is spotty, the further back in time you get (Gawd, what I wouldn't
give
>> to have the publication rights to one intact Roman census).
>
>They do.  Their records were the basis of one of what-his-name's Connections
>episode (2nd series I think).  Scary how accurate and detailed these TL (5?)
>records are.

A C Clarke perhaps? The TL would be more like 2 or 3.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:09:27 +0000
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

At 22:20 09/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> Starship Expenses
>>
>> Assume that on average 550cr will be spent per passenger and crewmember
>> in relation to Vacc Suit maintenance and certification.  This may be
>> much less if standards are compromised.
>
>BZZZT... What about Low Passengers.  They'd need the same suit provisions,
but their
>overhead is only 100cr


I would suggest that Low Passengers do not need to be supplied with a Vacc
Suit
and that they may either be supplied with survival bubbles and or one use
emergency
Vacc Suits.

I would guess that Low Passengers would be safer staying in the Low Berths,
assuming
that each low berth has an internal power supply for emergencies that last
upto 
one month.

Low Passengers are asked that should they anticipate the use of a Vacc Suit
that
they supply their own.

Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:07:20 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: Port Records

On Monday, March 09, 1998 9:36 PM, Steve Daniels [SMTP:blueboy@bu.edu] wrote:
> 
> 
> GDW GAMES wrote:
> 
> > I expect Lloyds have records that go back farther than that. A lot of this
> > stuff is spotty, the further back in time you get (Gawd, what I wouldn't give
> > to have the publication rights to one intact Roman census).
> 
> They do.  Their records were the basis of one of what-his-name's Connections
> episode (2nd series I think).  Scary how accurate and detailed these TL (5?)
> records are.
> 
> Bloo

Try TL 3 (1700 - 1860)



- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never anger a dragon, for they have found you are crunchy, and go well with Brie!

Douglas Glatz, MCSE
douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 98 17:50:15 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: T4 Stats Test...

On 03/08/98 at 10:05 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>>>    3. What is the biggest number you can make with three digits?

>> The answer given for this question (9^9^9=1.962271x10^77) may not actually
>> be correct.  

It's not.

>> Since no base system was specified, and if we reasonably
>> restrict ourselves to accepted base systems currently in use, then the
>> correct answer is F^F^F (hex) =4.173816x10^264.

That wouldn't be correct either.

>Technically "digit" with no modifier applies *only* to base 10. 

Ok, folks what is 9^99? 

But that's not *nearly* as large as 9^(9^9)!

You can play the same tricks with hexidecimal if you are oriented that way
as well...F^(F^F) is a pretty large number, sort of reminds me of the USA's
national debt. ;-p

But, let's be serious here...I'd give 9^9^9 the full two points, wouldn't
you?


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 98 17:54:45 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

On 03/08/98 at 11:24 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>> <FNORD>
>> Memo: Ask Control if it is possible that the fnord messages are getting
>> through to the list at large. Some curious questions have been asked 
>> recently.
>> </FNORD>

>FNORD is invisible unless one is Illuminated. (Or one has other means of
>bypassing the controls).

Um, Leonard, *what* is invisible unless one is Illuminated?

Does anybody really run an Illuminated Traveller?  We've talked about the
Templars, Hiver manipulations, and subtle influences from Granddad, but is
anybody actually applying any of this in a game?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 21:22:03
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #261

>From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
>Subject: Port Records
>
>Leonard Erickson 
>
>>LeonaWhat makes you think it'll be erased at all? Port records from the
1600s
>>are still around. And I suspect that much airline schedule info is
>>still around even after years. Bureaucracies don't throw away info. And
>>in any case, this sort of thing doesn't take up all that much space. 
>>
>>I suggest checking into historical data from back when ships where the
>>fastest means of communication. It'll show you what *was* done.
>
>S'truth, milord. With my own eyes I have seen passenger lists for vessels
from
>Germany docking in Philadelphia going as far back as 1740. Useful for
>geneologists, doncha know.
>
>I expect Lloyds have records that go back farther than that. A lot of this
>stuff is spotty, the further back in time you get (Gawd, what I wouldn't give
>to have the publication rights to one intact Roman census). 
>
>Loren Wiseman
>

The best single secondary source for things like this is a French historian
by the name of Fernand Braudel (aka God).

He is chock-a-block full of great stuff, exquisitly referenced and footnoted. 

For distances, speeds and so on, you really cant go past pp 355-379 of 'The
Meditteranean in the time of Philip II'.

Finally, Lloyds wont have records going a lot further back than the 1700s,
because maritime insurance was based in Genoa and Holland before this.
Loren, what you want is the Securitatum register in AdS, Genoa. See around
p620, op cit.  

People interested in piracy issues should check out p299-312 of the same
book too. 

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 20:28:04 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

Joe Pettit wrote:

[snip my query]
 
> Pretty much ALL legal captains must file flight plans with appropriate
> bodies.  Military vessels would file flight plans with appropriate bases
> (not necessarilly at every system). Merchants should file flight plans at
> starports with Legal codes above Low.  Pirates wouldn't file flight plans.

the former statements seem to agree with what everyone else feels and I
guess can be accepted as normal routine. The last part leaves me
wondering if SDB's are possibly a lot more active in dealing with
illegal traffic than with actual system defenses.

 
> Important stuff like that is generally shipped with a guard, or other
> representative.

I hadn't really thought of the article as being that impotant, and
wouldn't a guarded convoy draw more attention from pirates or marauders
than an unguarded tramp freighter, even though the latter would, in most
instances, be easier to take.
 
[snip more of my original]

> > This may have been previously discussed but I wasn't privy to the
> > discussions so I value and solicit your opinion's and comments??

I gather form most of the reply's so far that there is nothing that is
really 'canon' material that anyone here is privy to?????

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 20:32:43 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)

Kenji Schwarz wrote:
 
> Hogwash.  You ever see just how HAIRY an Aslan's palm is?  Yeah,
> meditation, uh-huh.  Yup.

Kenji, let me know for sure where you are campaigning so that I can
avoid it. There is no way I could muster a legitinate was against you,
as I would be in stiches listening to your intership messages, provided
of course that I could interpret them in the first place :>

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 22:10:30 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

HAL wrote:
> 
> Hello Jim,
>   As idle speculation, suppose the port authorities and Imperial
> authorities mandate that starship arrivals and departures are included
> with the daily information packets that are to be sent via X-boat routes.

This is what I believe would be standard practice, if only to know what
one should be receiving. Where the system might fall down is between
competing empires, where there is little if any trust between them.
Since there seems to be a lack of definative rules, we could assume that
the Imperial authorities/Scouts negotiated xboat priveleges with the
proviso that they would be exempt from military action (ie like the red
cross is/was treated in wars past)
  	
> Said information is to be forwarded to maybe a Scout base as a means for
> collecting the data, and refining it.  Anomalies are to be sent further
> down the line to Naval Intelligence and Law enforcement officials.  Really
> important stuff is to be sent to the capital of the sector, or even to the
> Emperor himself...

Yes, and what I read about the x-boat system was that a branch of the
Imperial Scouts had that duty as one of their main functions.

>   In this manner, all that is needed for the information flow is:
> 
> Departures at a world...
> 
> Location:
> Departure date:
> Destination:
> Ship name:
> Ship registry ID:

and possibly a copy of the cargo manifesto.

> Arrivals at a world...
> 
> Location:
> Arrival date:
> Ship name:
> Ship registry ID:

and possibly the 'new' cargo manifesto, it being assumed that anything
new was added at this port, anything missing was bartered and should be
locatable dirtside or in a warehouse.

 
>   Anyone who has a need for that information applies at the office and can
> get it as an Archived piece of information presuming of course, that the
> information is available.  However, if the data is being sent in secure
> data cartidges, then download into data retrieval systems should be
> minimal.

I would presume that such information would be very hard to come by, at
first, unless it was government/military requested, and would carry a
strict/costly information retrieval method involving lots of red tape
for the casual inquirer. Information that is out-dated (3+ months or so)
would be a lot easier to recover. I base my presumption on the need to
keep certain information (especially new inventions, current medical
discoveries, government thinking) out of the hands of 'ordinary' people
until it is proven, certain or agreed upon by those in power.
  
>   The biggest problem overall is then...  How does one store all this
> information, and how long is the data to be preserved before it is purged
> so as to make room for other incoming information?

I think this is where micro fiche technologies, etc come into play.

>   In any case, to get back to your original comment.  Suppose Ship A is
> leaving port in 3 days.  It has filed a flight plan that it will be
> arriving at Planet Destination in 10 days.  You as a shipper, might send
> mail via normal mail packet, to your destination now, indicating that Ship
> A is scheduled to arrive in 10 days, please notify if said ship does not
> arrive within 1 day of schedule.  At Planet Destination, they wait for the
> ship to arrive.  It doesn't show.  They send mail complaining it did not
> show.  You get either confirmation that it did not arrive on time, within
> 7 days of the expected arrival...
>   In the mean time...
>   Ship A absconded with the cargo, and is in the process of dodging the
> bank payments.  It jumped to Planet Other.  Before the Jump, the crew
> memebers jimmied the transponder, and rigged up false identity documents.
> They jump in system, and identify themselves as the fake ship.  The data
> of their ship's ID is fed into the "net" and sent down the line.  However
> <grin>, there are no planets within range of planet Other, with
> information regarding the "fake" Id.  Thus, we have an arrival without a
> departure co-tag.  Consequently, the computer picks it out as an anomaly,

And it is immediatley impounded by system defenses until it can be
cleared by what follows next.

> and the information is sent down the line.  Eventually, this information
> is sent via X-boat route, via the "paper" trail left by the ship, and a
> "plot" is made as to the general heading... and those planets are warned
> to be on the lookout for ships that match the description of...
> 
>   Now, to be really nasty as a GM?  Require that all flight plans be filed

Tch, tch , a no no. GM's are supposed to be unbiased. Hmmmmmmmmmmm
 
> 1 day prior to actual jumps, or said ship will not be allowed to lift from
> the hiport/lowport.  Information is sent in advance to the destination.
> The destination port then places that ship's ID in the "expected arrival
> list".  Ships that arrive in port without being on the "expected arrival
> list" are automatically suspect, and intensely scrutinized...
> 
>   As you can see, requiring flight plans in advance as part of the
> "normal" routine of civilized space, can make things difficult for
> adventurers further down the line.  Every time a PC captain wants to
> arrive at a planet without having filed a flight plan, he runs the risk of
> being very carefully looked over by the authorities.  Sooner or later,
> some X-boat will arrive ahead of him with HOLD orders, and his goose will
> be cooked.
> 
>   And lest people say "but the ship doesn't have to land at port, it can
> refuel at a gas Giant", let me remind you that it isn't difficult to have
> a patrol near a gas Giant along with orders to automatically note arriving
> ships, take down their Transponder ID, and check it against the
> "authorized arrival" list. <Grin>.

I suppose a ship could be posted at or near a gas giant to *note
arriving ships* but it seems to me that space is a very, very, VERY
large place and 1 small ship on the opposite side of even a small GG
could quite easily be lost to detection, IF the captain is trying to
*get away with something*. 

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 23:56:44 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: News

jvhinkel wrote:
> 
> Is there anywhere that I can get a Copy of the Traveller News Service from
> 1107 to 1120?

Yep.      Try http://www.imperiumgames.com/tns/   etc and see what you
get.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:00:41 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Info needed

jvhinkel wrote:
> 
> Can anybody please tell me about the following:
> 
>         1)      Pocket Universes.
> 
>         2)      Portals.
> 
>         3)      The Ancients.
> 
>         4)      Traveller News Service reports from around 1106 to 1125.

That seems to be a lot of information. Can you be a little more
specific. It would help those who may be able to help or give direction.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 98 22:49:57 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

On 03/09/98 at 10:07 PM,  Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com> said:

>Robert Eaglestone wrote:

>> Eris quoted prices.  They can be tweaked up to Traveller's
>> expensive levels:
>>
>> Item            cost per person
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Air Filters     8  @ Cr50               Cr 400

>WAY TOO many filters at that price.  I could maybe see a filter that
>expensive covering a whole ship for a day.

>> Water Filters   8  @ Cr50               Cr 400

>ARE YOU NUTS!?   Again, WAY TOO expensive.  You can get water purification
>tablets for 5 cr per 250 litres.

Hey, I just wanted to point out that it was Robert that jacked up the
prices, not me!  ;->

I still think the numbers I gave were a little high.  Things like purifying
water and oxygen shouldn't be much of a problem with all that power from
the fusion engines, so I think filters have to be all that high-tech. 
Pulling toxic chemicals out of the air is something we can do now...or Mir
would already be a tomb.  A few cubic meters of water can provide all the
back up oxygen you need when you crack it, and your passengers are likely
to put more water into the life system than you need with a good closed
system to collect it, crack it, pull off the hydrogen and oxygen and then
recombine them.

The food prices I quoted were what you'd pay to eat in a restaurant.  I
figure they are high, but in the ballpark.  Through in a few extra weeks of
prepackaged food, just in case, amortized over 6 months or so.

I think something like 700 per week for normal life support is reasonable. 
High passengers might be charged a premium for fancy food, bottled water,
scented air, fresh sheets every day, but an extra 300 per week would be
pushing it.

Finally, remember I don't have an compunction about breaking canon.  ;->

Eris,
    the Heretic
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #262
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, March 10 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 263



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:Chirper
Re: What Grey Thing?
Re: T4 Stats Test...
Re: Port Records
Re:  Traveller-digest V1998 #261
Re: Hey everybody, I'm back.
Re: Info needed
Re: Starship Expenses
RE: Info needed
Re: Port Records
Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)
Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)
Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry
Re: Discrimination (was: Captain's Life)
Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)
Re: Starship expenses
Re: Starship expenses
Re: Starship expenses
A Templar Plot...
re: FFS/SSDS questions
Re: Chirper
Challenge Magazines for trade
Re: Starship Expenses

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 98 08:37:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Re:Chirper

On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:03:42 CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com> Wrote...

> The answer is instead that there was no money in it, and nobody cared.
> So these many different reptilian communities that stay in the
> background and rarely interact with humans (and because of psionics can
> be sure most people don't notice them) just went unnoticed for centuries.
    I'm relying on my memory here, but didn't the Zhodani have lot's of contact
with Chirpers and Droyne fairly early on?  For the conspiracy minded it's quite
possible that the Zhodani used/protected them to some extant?  And that's
something the Imperial Intelligence services would have noticed...  Not to
mention that this IS something that the Scouts should be investigating...  i
wonder if certain elements within the Imperium's military establishment knew
Exactly what Chirpers were fairly early on and it took the civilian research
establishment centuries to catch on.
    Another thing, I remember reading in the Zhodani AM that they valued both
Chirpers and Droyne for their ability to teach Psionics.  I wonder if the
Imperial Psionic's establishment didn't covertly use them in the same way.

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 03:56:57 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 03/08/98 at 11:24 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>
> >FNORD is invisible unless one is Illuminated. (Or one has other means of
> >bypassing the controls).
>
> Um, Leonard, *what* is invisible unless one is Illuminated?
>
> Does anybody really run an Illuminated Traveller?  We've talked about the
> Templars, Hiver manipulations, and subtle influences from Granddad, but is
> anybody actually applying any of this in a game?
>
> Eris

I am, sort of.  My campaign with my brother and a friend is just starting.
They'll become aware of, and possibly invited into, a secret order roughly
based on such ideas.  I haven't worked out all the details because they're not
very far along yet.  Its in Milieu 0, which I think gives a wealth of
opportunities.

I'll save any further details because (1) I may be recruiting some more PBEM
players in the near future, and (2) I'm sure I know what I'm talking about.
:-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:00:40 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: T4 Stats Test...

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 03/08/98 at 10:05 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>
> >>>    3. What is the biggest number you can make with three digits?
>
>
> But, let's be serious here...I'd give 9^9^9 the full two points, wouldn't
> you?

I studied mathematics through advanced calculus and although much of it escapes
me now, I have never seen a double exponent x^y^z.  So, at first glance, this
answer loses points in my book, because it seems foolish.  If however it is an
actual system used in higher math, then I'll give an extra point to EDU, maybe,
if you make successful bribery task.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:36:32 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: Port Records

> Date:          Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:07:32 +1300
> From:          Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>

> At 12:36 AM 10/03/98 -0500, Stephen wrote:
> >
> >They do.  Their records were the basis of one of what-his-name's Connections
> >episode (2nd series I think).  Scary how accurate and detailed these TL (5?)
> >records are.
> 
> A C Clarke perhaps? The TL would be more like 2 or 3.

James Burke.


- --
Edward Swatschek - edjs@mindlink.net

The only truly "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that,
it's all learned. (Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org, in
comp.os.linux.misc, on X interfaces.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:57:21 EST
From: FKiesche <FKiesche@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Traveller-digest V1998 #261

Folks:

Could we direct the "potential stuff for sale" messages directly to the
gentleman running the sale instead of to the list as a whole...

Thanks!

Fred Kiesche
(FKiesche@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 05:26:15 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Hey everybody, I'm back.

> WHAT DID YOU ALIEN FREAKS DO WITH SEMOFETUS????  WHO ARE YOU REALLY???

<BZZZT>  Aliens.  <CLICK> There are no aliens here.  <whirrrr>  No one here
but us super intelligent robots.

> 
> Look what this clumsy ploy did to the Orignal Formula Third Imperium --
> don't try it again, please!  No bad imitation robots!

<BZZZZT> <whirrrrr> 

> Uh-huh.  A likely story.  Comrade listeros, please be so good as to
analyze
> this list for the hidden agenda behind this awful plot...

<CLICK> No hidden agenda.  Prepare for the machine invasion.

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:43:43 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Info needed

>Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:57:00 -0500
>From: jvhinkel <jvhinkel@MCI2000.com>
>Subject: Info needed

These are *very* broad subjects, but I'll do my best to give a brief
precises (heavy emphasis on the brief bit).

>Can anybody please tell me about the following:

>	1)	Pocket Universes.

Covered in Adventure 12 - Secret of the Ancients. Basically, a pocket
universe is exactly what it sounds like, a universe in a pocket. Take a
section of the regular universe and "pinch" it off so that it no longer
connects with it. Its never mentioned if they can occur naturally or if
they need to be created, IMTU they can occur naturally as by products
from a singularity. Creation of a pocket universe is TL30+ at minimum.

>	2)	Portals.

A conection between the regular universe and a pocket universe (also
covered in Adventure 12). Basically they are tied to a particular
pocket universe, which "follows" a master portal around. I don't have
Adventure 12 here at the moment, but from memory they can function in
one of two ways. Either as a gateway from our universe to the pocket
universe, or as a teleportation system, allowing transit between two
portals (using the pocket universe as an energy sink). Creation of
portals is TL25.

>	3)	The Ancients.

Where to begin? The Ancients are an enigmatic race who achieved mind
boggling technology (TL30+) some 300,000 years before the foundation
of the 3rd Imperium, before wiping themselves out in a 2000yr long
fratracidal war; leaving only shattered remnants of their glories. They
are resposible for: scattering Humans to the stars, uplifting the Vargr
to sentience, a very large number of asteriod belts (byproducts of the
Final War), and doing generally bizzare things. Covered in detail in
Adventures 2, 3, and 12; Alien Modules 4 (Zhodani) and 5 (Droyne).
Most common distinguishing feature of Ancient sites is inconsitancy.
Artifacts found within a site will be consistant with other found
within the site (usually) but only very rarely with those from other
sites. There's a lot of data on them scattered around the web. Check
the AAB site and somewhere there's a list of all "canon" Ancient sites
(I can't recall the URL's for either of these sites sorry).

>	4)	Traveller News Service reports from around 1106 to 1125.

Check the not-the-Imperiumgames Web site. It has all the articles from
1105 to 1125. (I'm sorry I don't have it's URL handy).

Sorry I can't remember the URL's, but they are all on the Traveller Web
Ring and the AAB site is listed on the Imperiumgames links page.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"Avec vous votra limpet mine?"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:42:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

In mail you write:

>> Eris quoted prices.  They can be tweaked up to Traveller's
>> expensive levels:
>>
>> Item            cost per person
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Air Filters     8  @ Cr50               Cr 400
>
> WAY TOO many filters at that price.  I could maybe see a filter that
> expensive covering a whole ship for a day.

Try pricing HEPA filters... While I admit that his prices seem a bit
high, *life support* quality filters are not going to be cheap.

>> Water Filters   8  @ Cr50               Cr 400
>
> ARE YOU NUTS!?   Again, WAY TOO expensive.  You can get water purification
> tablets for 5 cr per 250 litres.

And if you use those in a closed environment, you'll poison everyone in
short order. They are based on chlorine or iodine, and onboard ship,
you can't just let the active ingredient diffuse into the atmosphere.
There isn't all that much atmosphere.

>> Reserve Water   40l @ Cr5               Cr 200
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't unrefined fuel water?  Isn't that 100 Cr
> per 14000 liters?

Unrefined fuel is liquid hydrogen. A far cry from water.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:05:03 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: Info needed

On Tuesday, 10 March 1998 04:44, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
[SMTP:a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz] wrote:
> >Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:57:00 -0500
> >From: jvhinkel <jvhinkel@MCI2000.com>
> >Subject: Info needed

[snip]

> >	4)	Traveller News Service reports from around 1106 to 1125.
> 
> Check the not-the-Imperiumgames Web site. It has all the articles from
> 1105 to 1125. (I'm sorry I don't have it's URL handy).
> 
> Sorry I can't remember the URL's, but they are all on the Traveller
Web
> Ring and the AAB site is listed on the Imperiumgames links page.

Not-the-IG Pages - http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html


- -Vanya  (aka Vargr1)                                     UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ----------------------------------- The Future is in Beta
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
 "...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." |   dmoody@bridge.com
- --Not-the-IG Pages - http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:10:55 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Port Records

On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> At 12:36 AM 10/03/98 -0500, Stephen wrote:
> >
> >
> >GDW GAMES wrote:
> >
> >> I expect Lloyds have records that go back farther than that. A lot of this
> >> stuff is spotty, the further back in time you get (Gawd, what I wouldn't
> give
> >> to have the publication rights to one intact Roman census).
> >
> >They do.  Their records were the basis of one of what-his-name's Connections
> >episode (2nd series I think).  Scary how accurate and detailed these TL (5?)
> >records are.
> 
> A C Clarke perhaps? The TL would be more like 2 or 3.

James Burke did the Connections series.

Also, we have _accurate_, if disjointed, written records dating back
thousands of years to just above TL0. How many Sumerian cuneiform tablets
have we uncovered? They date back almost 6000 years. 

Of course, those _are_ the ancient traces of our former Vilani overlords,
but I digress... ;-)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:09:09 -0700
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)

> Kenji, let me know for sure where you are campaigning so that I can
> avoid it. There is no way I could muster a legitinate was against you,
> as I would be in stiches listening to your intership messages, provided
> of course that I could interpret them in the first place :>

Speaking from personal experience, I'm not certain his *crewmates* 
can interpret them...

Suz

AKA Kamala Mumbain, Pilot, Uplift IRC game

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:11:01 -0700
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)

> Kenji, let me know for sure where you are campaigning so that I can
> avoid it. There is no way I could muster a legitinate was against you,
> as I would be in stiches listening to your intership messages, provided
> of course that I could interpret them in the first place :>

LOL!  Speaking from personal experience, I'm not certain his 
*crewmates* can interpret them....  ;>

Suz

aka Kamala Mumbai, Pilot, Uplift IRC game

 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:40:06 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:
>What makes you think it'll be erased at all? Port records from the 1600s
>are still around. And I suspect that much airline schedule info is
>still around even after years. Bureaucracies don't throw away info. And
>in any case, this sort of thing doesn't take up all that much space. 

Unless it's embarasing to someone.

Hm. Plot idea. Gaps in old records indicate something's up. Why would
there be no record of this ship? We know that it sailed, we have
eye-witnesses. What was its real cargo? Why have the file access logs been
security sealed for that year only?

Alternately, the plotters forgot to erase the port registry backup tapes.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:52:17 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Discrimination (was: Captain's Life)

s.johnson107@genie.geis.com writes:
>    But OC you silly stupid ignorant MAN, don't you know that woman are
>incapable of discrimination?

My sister would take them apart.  Quickly.

She's a practising paramedic, and HATES separate standards, because
several times her life has depended on partners/firefighters being able to
do their jobs. So far Calgary has managed to avoid that (I think), but I
dread the day it happens.

Mind you, she also supports requalification testing so that once you're in
you don't let yourself slide...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:55:08 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)

andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith) writes:
>It's the dew-claw that makes me wince.

"Makes" you wince? Not "would make" you wince?  And just how many times a
week do you wince with your Aslan, anyway? :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:52:11 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

Steven Bonneville writes:

>A small stateroom costs kCr 40, and half of a large stateroom costs 
>kCr 50.  The argument could be made that some of this "life-support"
>expense goes into replacing fittings for the staterooms that get too
>worn out, as well as for food, recharging air systems, starport fees
>for discharging effluvia from the system, replacing towels that have
>been stolen as "souvenirs", licensing fees to ISCAP for the ship's
>entertainment systems, liability insurance (in case you get sued),
>safety equipment (how much do rescue balls, survival kits, fire
>extinguishers, medical supplies and all that cost to keep up?), the
>cleaning supplies, and so on.

Just remember that the Cr2000 per person carried are all consumables
(Unless you go with the insurance fee/government tax idea). You don't
have to pay it on trips where the stateroom is empty. That means things
like rescure balls, survival kits, fire extinguishers, and everything
else that usually isn't actually used during a trip, but just has to be
replaced periodically dosen't come out of this figure, and it also means
that crew members ought to cost about 50% more than passengers (since
they strain the life support system for 14 days out of 14 while the
average passenger only stretch it for 9 days out of 14). And, finally,
it also means that it is a lot cheaper to restock on some planets than
on others. For instance, if you get your supplies at a Class B, TL 9 
starport it would be about three times cheaper than getting them at a
Class A, TL 15 starport.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:15:53 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

Robert Eaglestone wrote:
 
>> Eris quoted prices.  They can be tweaked up to Traveller's
>> expensive levels:
>>
>>[...]
>>Air filters and water filters must be changed daily.

You don't think much of high technology, do you? You completely miss the
point that if it is a true expense (ie. not just someone with a monopoly
jacking up the price unconciously) then the same apply for artificial
environments everywhere, and it suddenly become more than 15 times as
expensive to live on an airless world or in space as it does on a world
with a breathable atmosphere. Which agrees rather badly with a lot of
background details.

>>Some of the minor moving parts modules must also be replaced daily (they
>>and the filters may be recycled at the next starport).  There must
>>be a minimum of 30 meals per passenger on board, and 10 days of
>>drinking water.

And if the food isn't used it can be served to the next passenger.

>>Life support packages must be bought at ASMS Certified outlets, and
>>packaging must be done only by ASMS Certified labor at the ASMS
>>Certified maintenance centers on starport.

OK. so it is someone taking advantage of a monopoly to jack up the
price way beyond what is reasonable. well enough. I have no quarrel with
that, or with any other dodge used to increase the cost artificially (IMTU
I use "misjump insurance" to explain the high cost). But here again you
miss the point. This is a campaign-specific feature and certainly dosen't
apply to all Traveller universes and most certainly not to all empires in
all TUs (I don't even think it belongs in the Imperium of the Official
Traveller Universe; it simply dosen't fit with the impression of the free
trade principles I have of the Imperium. I can't back it up with any
definitive quotes, so I don't want to argue that point). But tell me, do
you really think that something like the ASMS would exist in all the
different interstellar empires of the OTU? I don't. Whereas I do believe
that people have to eat and breathe no matter where they are in the 
universe). So shouldn't the rules allow the Referee to distinguish between
hard, unavoidable, applies-everywhere-in-the-univers costs like food and
air and artificially inflated costs, so that he can easily adapt the rules
to his own specifications? 

Joe Pettit writes:

>So you're saying its 2000 Credits because of a 200% markup

I'd say 300-400% markup myself.
 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:39:54 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

Dom Reynolds proposes a long and ingenious rigmarole about how regulations
require the use and frequent replacement of a vacc suit per passenger and
crew.

Others have proposed other ways to inflate the costs of consumables spent on
a starship jump. But all this is besides the point. There's no question that
it is _possible_ to spend the equivalent of S$2000/week on the ingredients
for food alone. The point is that they all require some highly artificial
conditions: The monopoly of a galaxy-wide union of starport chandlers or the
use of ultra-luxury food or a government fee (OK, so perhaps they aren't all
highly artificial; this one is quite likely with some types of government,
but I still maintain that it is not equally likely with all types of
government). Anyway, the point is the artificiality of it. No one has
proposed any way to account for this cost that cannot be avoided in specific
circumstances. So the rules should allow the Referee to take such specific
circumstances into account and to assess the possible consequenses for the
players. And those circumstance, and the risks involved in circumventing
them, differ markedly according to which pescific explanation there is for
the inflated price (Monopoly: Sneak into town and buy from independent
suppliers; luxury food: tell crew and prospective passengers to eat meat
loaf and like it; insurance: go without; mandatory insurance: cheat on
passenger manifests; mandatory security equipment: bribe the inspector;
government tax: cheat on tax returns, etc. As you can see, it makes a big
difference just what the reason is).



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:59:47 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: A Templar Plot...

Fellow list members, we have been inflitrated:

The cases in point -

1) MJD and the other MJD

2) Marc Miller and the other Marc.

3) Semo@aol and the new Semo.

4) Myself and the other Dom, and now myself and another SD!


2drapers <2drapers@infowest.com> wrote:

>Much thanks.
>
>SD

Be afraid.... they're playing with our minds.

Kenji is that really you?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:02:17 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: FFS/SSDS questions

2drapers <2drapers@infowest.com> wrote:

>I have not been able to find FFS2 yet and have a couple of questions:
>(1) do HEPLaR drives have to be powered by a fusion plant (FFS1 said "any"
>power plant)?

Because they need a supply of fused material?

>(2) do ships with Grav Thrusters also need Contra Grav?
>(3) if they dont, if you decide to add both thrusters and CG can you use
>both at the same time in an atmosphere?  In other words, do they act
>cumulatively?

?????

>(4) is SSDS in any way inconsistant with FFS2?  If so, are the deviations
>posted anywhere?

SSDS used FFS1(.5?) as a basis, not FFS2.

>(5) is there errata for SSDS and is it posted anywhere?

Try http://www.spirit.net.au/~jamesd/Trav/

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:54:58 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Chirper

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote:

>It still does imply (as lots of other things do) that there's much less
>pure research-for-research's sake in the third Imperium - there's no money
>in calculating genetic divergence between ape species, but people do it
>anyway.

Remember the 3I is dominated by Vilani.

>Using chirpers for twisted psionic experiments leading towards FTL comm, on
>the other hand, there's plenty of funding for.

Hmm. Maybe this is after the great war of genocide against the Psionic
Vrast, an empire big enough to threaten the nacent Imperium but strangely
not mentioned in anything but Missions of State ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:33:04 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Challenge Magazines for trade

I have the following 'extra' challenge magazines.  I'd like to trade for
other Traveller stuff, especially Journals of the TAS, Megatraveller
Journals, and Traveller's Digest.  (oh, and unlikely as it is, Alien Module
4; Zhodani).

All are in good shape at least, and, for those unfamiliar with them,
usually have 2-5 Traveller or Megatraveller adventures or articles, plus
articles for other GDW games whichoften can be adapted to Traveller (but
often can't).

Since I'm in this for the material, not the collection, dollars are not
particularly wanted (although thoroughly unreasonable offers will be
contemplated:);

Challenge Magazines;
27
31
32
33
44(x2)
45(x2)
51
54
55
57
58(x2)
59(x2)
69

Let me know.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:05:55 -0600
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

I did some poking around through "Book 2" and "Book 5" and readjusted
my thinking on passenger carriage a bit.

Originally, both middle and high passengers required single occupancy
in a four-ton stateroom.  Small staterooms or double occupancy could
be used in a few cases:

  * passenger space for insystem trips over a day long on small craft
  * crew space, including working passage; commercial ships were
    encouraged not to do this, but it wasn't required (and some of
    the official designs packed crew in this tightly)
  * military personnel, either crew or troops

So routine use of small staterooms for middle passengers wasn't allowed
under most circumstances; and high and middle passengers had the same
size staterooms.  Then, as I said yesterday, you can carry five middle
passengers or four high passengers and baggage in twenty disp-tons, and
the life-support cost difference makes outfitting for high passengers
somewhat more attractive.

In addition, low berths only displaced half a ton, not a full ton; and
emergency (livestock) low berths displaced a ton, not two.  This would
explain why low berths are ever used; you can make more money with one
than by hauling freight (kCr (2 - 0.2) versus kCr 1 per ton).  When
was the displacement of low berths changed?

In order for the economic numbers to work, I'd think that we need to
reduce low berth displacement back to classic Traveller volumes, and
disallow use of small staterooms for middle passengers except when
allowed for high passengers as well.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #263
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, March 10 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 264



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"
Re: Captain's Life
Re: Traveller Items for sale or trade
Re: A Templar Plot...
re: Starship Expenses
Re: Robots
Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"
Re: Robots
Re: Captain's Life
Re: What Grey Thing?
Re:Chirper
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #261
Re: Discrimination (was: Captain's Life)
Re: Discrimination (was: Captain's Life)
Re: A Templar Plot...
Re: A Templar Plot...
Re: Robots
Re: Robots
New '101' type book(s)
Re: Conspiracy Theory
Re: T4 Stats Test
Re: Why X-boats are J-4 (got long)
Re: Starship Expenses
Imperiallines, records
Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)
Re: Starship Expenses

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:12:02 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"

Bloo wrote:
> Bill Rutherford wrote:
> > At 12:34 PM 3/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
> > >PSIONICS
> > >Have a tester flip a coin 15 times. Guess heads or tales (front or
back),
> > >whatever. The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of right
answers.
> > >---
> > >
> > >Shouldn't this rather be something like:
> > >
> > >PSI = abs(number correct - number incorrect) ?
> > >...
> >
> > Good! Measure by accuracy - either positive or negative!
>
> Apologies for missing the prior post. I don't think that formulation
works.
> The range of results is close (15-1) but the values aren't evenly
distributed.
<snip>
> The 1 value is an additional problem, since you can't get this with 2
dice
> Perhaps it should be treated as PSI 0.
>
> Wouldn't 15-number incorrect work better? or 0+number correct? (as is
> originally suggested)?
>
> Bloo

Random chance says that the number of  right  and  wrong  guesses
should  be  equal  (statistical  flukes  not  withstanding).  PSI
ability would skew this ratio in favour of  more  right  guesses,
the higher the ability the more the ratio is skewed.  But if  the
test subject guesses _wrong_ in all 15 trials what should we take
this to mean?

- - A high PSI ability which is shorting-out somehow  (and  if  so,
  why?)
- - A high negative PSI ability (what is neg-PSI?)
- - Something else (what?)



Regards PLST
"If eating animals is wrong, why are they made of meat?"
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:16:49 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Captain's Life

Well, it proves that EVERY job that still requires upper body physical
strength is going to be discriminitory against women (I guess NOW and that
idiot, Alred could sue G-D). I guess the Imperium (since it's appears to have
the same annoying, big brother attitude will pressure lower tech worlds to be
PC). After all, the 3I has no jobs that require upper body strength thanks to
anti-grav, so the rest of the galaxy will have to whistle to their tune. No
wonder the Zhodani and Solomani hate them :-). Seriously, this could be an
interesting political football. The 3I doesn't like to interfere in individual
world's politics, but pressure from Imperial liberals to do so could drive a
gaming party crazy.

PS; When I was in the NYCPD academy in 86' we had blatant sexual
discrimination that way. The women could drop out of the runs, and the men
could not. I was harassed about my weight (I was over the charts at 170-175lbs
at 5'8", but my body fat% was OK) and the women were not. I remember that one
woman could not pull the trigger of her service revolver because of lack of
hand strength. They just gave her a rubber ball to squeeze, and bent over
backwards to get her to pass. This was all part of a settlement with the
Justice Department to increase minority and woman numbers (a laudable goal,
but a terrible way to do it). This of course led to the men having comtempt
for the women (including unfortunatly those who COULD pass the physical
testing and deserved their jobs). I do have to admit I have heard no disasters
on the street YET since then, but I'm no longer on the job to listen to the
gossip (despite the size of the force, the gossip is surprisingly intimate-if
you screw up and/or do something funny, the ENTIRE department will hear about
it)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:23:00 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Items for sale or trade

Dear Sir;

Can I please have the prices for adventures 7,9-11 and double adventures 4-6?
I have for trade the Seeker games 25mm. deck plans of the SDB,lab
ship,subsidized merchant, and far trader Empress Marava. I removed the shrink
wrap, and removed the plans from the booklets; otherwise they are mint (I'm
geting rid of them because I prefer 15mm).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:20:37 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: A Templar Plot...

At 10:59 AM 3/10/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Fellow list members, we have been inflitrated:

Whoops!  We've been found out.

>Be afraid.... they're playing with our minds.

But they're so soft and squishy!

>Kenji is that really you?

No, Kenji is really me, and I'm a rogue Ancient AI system that was
reprogrammed by the Hivers as part of a Manipulation/fraternity prank.

>Dom

Are you sure about that?

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:25:19 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Starship Expenses

Joe Petit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Starship Expenses
>
> Assume that on average 550cr will be spent per passenger and crewmember
> in relation to Vacc Suit maintenance and certification.  This may be
> much less if standards are compromised.

BZZZT... What about Low Passengers.  They'd need the same suit provisions, but their
overhead is only 100cr
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Maybe they wouldn't need vacc suits. If I'm reading the T4 Naval Architecht's Manual correctly, Rescue Bays (an emergency airlock intended
for rapid ship evacuation or accepting survivors from another ship) are 
designed with "low berth pass-throughs". There was a CT-era reference 
that escapes me about low-berth passengers being loaded as cargo, and
the low berths shown in the Naval Architecht's Manual look very much like
movable sarcophagi. Low berths on the CT 600-tn Subsidized Liner from
_Signal GK_ look the same, as do the berths aboard _Azhanti High Lightning_,
but the berths on a Beowulf Free Trader (DGP's Starship Operator's Manual)
are shown as built-in bunks...it may depend on tech level or design custom.

These design features seem to indicate that in an emergency situation the
crew will not wake the low berth passengers - they're probably safer inside the berths and can be rescued as any vital cargo could be. And in evacuation situations, it's probably faster to switch the low berths over to internal batteries and move them out as-is...the alternative is to wake all the sleepers and help
their hibernation-groggy keisters into vacc suits, then help them off the ship.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:33:29 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Robots

Thank you sir! I would rather trade photocopy for photocopy anyway. You should
really consider putting all this stuff on CD. Everybody on the list would pay
good money for them (I know I would!) BTW, do you still have CT items for
sale?

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:38:23 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"

trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:

> Random chance says that the number of  right  and  wrong  guesses
> should  be  equal  (statistical  flukes  not  withstanding).

But flipping a coin isn't random, merely difficult to calculate.And the
'heads' side of US coins causes them to land head-side down more often than
not due to the additional weight on that side.

> But if  the
> test subject guesses _wrong_ in all 15 trials what should we take
> this to mean?

[snip]

And ask it the other way:  what does it mean if subject gets 15 of 15
right?
- - Able to correct predict the outcome?
- - Able to manipulate the outcome psionically?
- - Just damn lucky?
- - Or really good at controlling the flip (especially if you catch it and
slap it on the arm - how do you think I got 10 for 15 when I tried this :-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:39:26 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Robots

ALL RIGHT! Please ask him to E mail me, or give my his E mail.

thanks,

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:25:46 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Captain's Life

At 10:45 PM 3/9/98 +0800, Kenji foamed:

>Nice try... Commie pinko devil worshipping 'Frisco-dwelling spin-doctor,
>you. 

Wow.  I think I have a new entry for my Organization Line in my headers.
- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:40:51 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

At 05:54 PM 3/9/98 -0600, you wrote:

>Does anybody really run an Illuminated Traveller?  We've talked about the
>Templars, Hiver manipulations, and subtle influences from Granddad, but is
>anybody actually applying any of this in a game?

In my current CORPS: Traveller game, set in the Lunion subsector in 1106,
the players are starting to get hints of what's really going on.  Right
now, they've got a nearly catatonic telepath that they are trying to
smuggle off of Strouden.  What they don't know is that he managed to
connect to the Net, and it nearly fried his brain.  As the Fifth Frontier
War grows closer, I'm going to reveal the cause of the abortive Fourth War:
 To prevent the Imperium from landing in force on Andor and Candory.
- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|          Embrace Fascism.          |
|       The uniforms look cool       |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:29:10 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re:Chirper

At 08:37 AM 3/10/98 GMT, you wrote:

>    I'm relying on my memory here, but didn't the Zhodani have lot's of
contact with Chirpers and Droyne fairly early on? 

Chirpers lived on the Zhodani homeworld, and were an accepted part of the
culture.  When the Zhodni first visited their moon, they found a thriviving
society of Chirper there also.  Unfortunantly, they contact between the two
branches of Chirpers proved deadly, as it completed a binary biowar weapon
left by the Ancients.  With a few years, all the Chirp's were dead, and
Zhodani society had collapsed.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:49:40 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #261

Sorry. Next time I'll paste his E mail address, and E mail him directly.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:52:27 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Discrimination (was: Captain's Life)

My Grandmother was a police officer, and one of my Aunts 
was/still is a paramedic.  These ladies were neither meek
nor small, and my Aunt could nearly match me for strength.

However, my own wife couldn't keep up with my own strength
and doesn't try to act like she could.  Then again she 
despises the fem nazis and nag.

In my own opinion, if there are women who want to work in
positions that require a lot of strength, then simply have 
a set of minimum standards.  Apply these standards to both
men and women.  Shoot anybody who disagrees (or have them
try to meet the minimum standards).

Eric

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: Discrimination (was: Captain's Life)


>s.johnson107@genie.geis.com writes:
>>    But OC you silly stupid ignorant MAN, don't you know that woman are
>>incapable of discrimination?
>
>My sister would take them apart.  Quickly.
>
>She's a practising paramedic, and HATES separate standards, because
>several times her life has depended on partners/firefighters being able to
>do their jobs. So far Calgary has managed to avoid that (I think), but I
>dread the day it happens.
>
>Mind you, she also supports requalification testing so that once you're in
>you don't let yourself slide...
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:56:10 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Discrimination (was: Captain's Life)

That is very refreshing to hear. I always thought that Canada was even more PC
than the US. I'm glad I'm wrong.

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:57:20 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: A Templar Plot...

I'm very confused.... :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:00:12 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: A Templar Plot...

Someone impersonating SD Mooney wrote:

>Fellow list members, we have been inflitrated:
>
>The cases in point -
>
>1) MJD and the other MJD
>
>2) Marc Miller and the other Marc.
>
>3) Semo@aol and the new Semo.
>
>4) Myself and the other Dom, and now myself and another SD!
>
>
>2drapers <2drapers@infowest.com> wrote:
>
>>Much thanks.
>>
>>SD
>
>Be afraid.... they're playing with our minds.
>
>Kenji is that really you?

Which one of us?  You realize, of course, that there's also two Kenjis on
the TML? <G>

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:58:34 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Robots

Marc,

Can we scan in the LBB's and trade them that way?

Would anyone be willing to scan their books and make them available? There
are a lot of us that are only interested in the contents and not the
collectability. I for one, would be happy with a photocopy version of the
entire LBB series. It is probably the only way I will ever see them.

This would eliminate the need for a CD of the old books.

Also, they could be saved in a PDF format or a GIF format, whatever is
easier. I'm not sure how well an OCR program would work, but it may work
well. This is what TSR has done with their out-of-print work. They made it
available on their web site.

Seth,
I'll have to go get my copy of Robots from my friend that is borrowing it. I
will get back to you on it.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:27:24 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Robots

Those are all great ideas. Now you have to ask Mr. Miller for his permission
to do so. I suggested a CD so he can make some money to publish T4.1, in case
he has to abandon ship if Imperium games does go elfoldo...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:48:28 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: New '101' type book(s)

Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com> types:

   This works for me!  I've even got a M:0 retired Navy, adventurer type
geared up and ready to go for this!

>    I am contemplating making a supplement for Traveller that is similar to
>the Core/BITS 101 books.  What I am proposing initially is a 111
>Mercenaries supplement.  In the supplement, I see a 'casual encounter'
>description of the NPC/Character as well as military awards, multiple
>notable battles and achievements based on  different 'mileu' for use in any
>traveller genre.  The NPC would include items of interest such as, the
>NPC's usual demeanor, likely places to be encountered, likely equipment
>selections, etc. as well as a 'genre-neutral' detailed background to help
>explain some of the character's history and accomplishments.  I foresee the
>book being broken down into several sections with several characters to
>each section.  With the sections being devoted to the different branches of
>the military services such as: Navy, Marine, Army, Scouts, and Special
>Ops/IRIS/Ine Gvar/Covert commando types.
>
>
>    Would this booklet have any type of market?  What would something like
>this be worth to the general traveller fan?  What other types of 111 type
>books would be sought after?  (i.e. 111 Diplomats, 111
>Robots/Androids/Cyborgs, 111 Ultra-Technologies, 111 Ancient Sites, etc.)

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:03:46 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Conspiracy Theory

Steven Hudson wrote:

> Re: Dulinor
>
>   Well, we know there's a TAS, right?
>
>   And they have the TNS, and probably other services, right?
>
>   So, the shuttles engineer is checking visitors info on the
> TAS mailing list, say, and...
>
>         <poof>
>                 Or, the hamster did it...
>
>   Would _you_ trust one with the drive controls?

You mean more than some of the scout 'pilots' that are roaming around out
there??  There is something seriously twisted about people who get so involved
with their ships that the service prefers to give them to 'em, rather than
separate the team when they retire!  :)

douglas


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:25:30 -0600 (CST)
From: Don Stark <stark@glacier.nrlssc.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: T4 Stats Test

> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:00:40 -0500
> From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
> Subject: Re: T4 Stats Test...
> 
> Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> > On 03/08/98 at 10:05 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
> >
> > >>>    3. What is the biggest number you can make with three digits?
> >
> >
> > But, let's be serious here...I'd give 9^9^9 the full two points, wouldn't
> > you?
> 
> I studied mathematics through advanced calculus and although much of it escapes
> me now, I have never seen a double exponent x^y^z.

Clearly you weren't paying too close attention in your algrbra classes.
Think of it as (x^n)^m and it might make more sense.

>  So, at first glance, this
> answer loses points in my book, because it seems foolish.  If however it is an
> actual system used in higher math, then I'll give an extra point to EDU, maybe,
> if you make successful bribery task.
> 
> Bloo
> 




- -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
                                |                                   |
Don Stark                       |           ,/7_                    |
                                |          /   _`,                  |
Naval Research Lab, Code 7322   |         (.)\) \|_                 |
Bay St. Louis, MS 39529         |          0    /^~'                |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
e-mail: stark@nrlssc.navy.mil   |                                   |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
Phone: (228) 688-4151 work      |              ' )( `               |
       (228) 688-4759 fax       |   ~~~~~~~~~~~''  ``~~~~~~~~~~~~   |
- --------------------------------------------------------------------

Z

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:41:05 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4 (got long)

Shadow Writes;
>In mail you write:
>> 008 Arrive destination system, picked up by Tender.  Crew is given a day
>> off and put on the next outbound x-boat back as crew.
>
>I suspect that crew either get more time between runs, or else they get
>frequent vacations.

I saw them as working for two weeks (+/-) straight then getting a week or
so off at their "home" planet, or perhaps working the "day shift" 3-4 days
before the next run.  In any case it was a detail that seemed unimportant.

><snip>
>>  A Boat will
>> always leave one hour after the arrival of an incoming boat, even if a boat
>> has left that day already.
>
>Slight problem. It can take more than an hour to transfer the data from
>the incoming boat to the outgoing one.

Think so?  Why?  I can't remember any CT books that said so, but that's not
unusual.

Also, I figure that's one area that the X-Boat has the corner on.  You can
use a big-bandwidth laser communicator if you're afraid of eavesdroppers,
and zap a few Gazillion Jacobytes of data in no time at all.  (note my
intentional nonuse of real numerical description, I figure the available
technology will keep up with the desired capacity as time goes by).

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:43:34 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

Dom wrote:

> I would suggest that Low Passengers do not need to be supplied with a Vacc
> Suit
> and that they may either be supplied with survival bubbles and or one use
> emergency
> Vacc Suits.
>
> I would guess that Low Passengers would be safer staying in the Low Berths,
> assuming
> that each low berth has an internal power supply for emergencies that last
> upto
> one month.
>
> Low Passengers are asked that should they anticipate the use of a Vacc Suit
> that
> they supply their own.

I'm sure this is one of those subjects that is not discussed around the
customers....

Frankly,  I would tend to say that when push comes to shove, the corpsicles may
get the short end of the stick.

Consider - the pirate ship has given you 15 minutes to evacuate the ship, 10 of
which you spend convincing the Baroness Liphia that perhaps packing for this
trip is not exactly a necessary thing...are you going to a) get in the shuttle
and live or b) go start the revivification process for the low passengers
and...?

Consider - you have come out of misjump about 400 AUs from the Distant companion
to the target system.  The computer calculates that it will take you 40 days to
transit in normal space - best case lifesupport for you and your passengers is
15 days.  Now, as you look around at the 15 faces of your friends (crewmates)
and the various economically well off merchants and nobles who are your
passengers, you think of the 20 low berths that are, albeit already occupied,
down in steerage...

douglas

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:35:51 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Imperiallines, records

Hello,
>Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:40:06 -0500
>From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
>Subject: Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry
...
>Hm. Plot idea. Gaps in old records indicate something's up. Why would
>there be no record of this ship? We know that it sailed, we have
>eye-witnesses. What was its real cargo? Why have the file access logs been
>security sealed for that year only?
>
>Alternately, the plotters forgot to erase the port registry backup tapes.

  Isn't resolving the above issue going to be the normal modus operandi
for any J-6 hiusehold ship conducting a mission? Also, rather than have
a noble or NI op try and conduct or arrange the "correction", they would
probably have an automatic, invisible record-adjusting method.

  So, if your Imperial Standard (IISS?) starport traffic control and
records software (I wonder how big that package will be...) detects
an anomaly for a specific, pre-listed ships ID, it may have a routine
to eliminate the anomaly, while perhaps sending a message back to the
sector head office of the relevant concern. Or such a procedure could
be put on hold waiting for a reply from the authorized center, in 
which case the anomaly might have to be concealed by a supposed "glitch"
if someone should look for it too soon.

  Most likely the internal tampering would need to be immediate to avoid
hassles with duplicate records being compared at a later date.

  Actually, NI or the IN may very well have a similar mechanism for
concealing occasions when Intel operatives or Q-ships have to jump
around faster than their public identities are capable of.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:29:41 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)

>andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith) writes:
>>It's the dew-claw that makes me wince.
>
>"Makes" you wince? Not "would make" you wince?  And just how many times a
>week do you wince with your Aslan, anyway? :-)

...as my oral hygienist suggests, I wince and spit my Aslan twice daily.
And you?

Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:37:22 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Expenses

Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com> types:
>> Assume that on average 550cr will be spent per passenger and crewmember
>> in relation to Vacc Suit maintenance and certification.  This may be
>> much less if standards are compromised.
>BZZZT... What about Low Passengers.  They'd need the same suit provisions,
but their
>overhead is only 100cr

    Nope, that's why they are *LOW* passengers.  Rescue Balls will do. 


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot 
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #264
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, March 10 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 265



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Shuttle Down 
Pocket Empires Help
Challenge - was starship expenses
Port Records
Re: What Grey Thing?
Transponders; Gilgamesh; Life Support Costs
Re: Chirper
Re: A Templar Plot...
Re: T4 Stats Test
Re: What Grey Thing?
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #263
Electronically-Published Adventures
Re: Shuttle Down
[T98#256] Some language questions
[T98#256] Some language questions
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #260
Re: A Templar Plot...
Missions of State Review - *SPOILERS*
Apologies

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:43:01 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Shuttle Down 

One of the alternate Shuttle landing sites is Stewart Airport in Newburg, NY.
It's just a standard, although long, runway.  The Air Force flys C5's out
that airport.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:36:46 +1300
From: Raymond John Gray <raygun@ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Pocket Empires Help

Does anybody have an EXCEL SS that takes all the numbercrunching out of
Pocket
Empires....

Raygun

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:32:24 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Challenge - was starship expenses

Hello List,

>In order for the economic numbers to work, I'd think that we need to
>reduce low berth displacement back to classic Traveller volumes, and
>disallow use of small staterooms for middle passengers except when
>allowed for high passengers as well.
>
>  -- Steve Bonneville

  This was another one of my pet peeves regarding the newer ship rules for
traveller universes after CT.  In almost every instance - the revenue
generating volumes were made smaller and smaller (compare Jump 1 Free
traders from system to system by cargo volume, number of staterooms and
cost of ships...).  As the revenue production got smaller, ships that were
marginally economically feasible, no longer were feasible.
  Also, as I tried to tell GDW once upon a time...

  Design a jump 1 ship, a jump 2 ship, and a jump 3 ship - all for the
purpose of creating some free traders.  Then, use the traveller rules as
they are in any incarnation.  I suspect that you will not find any jump 3
ships that will be viable (although with the rules regarding trade with
high tech planets - if there are two planets within jump 3 of each other,
with the rest of the nearest planets being low tech, perhaps the jump 3 can
survive).  All in all, if I may challenge the list to make me eat my words
(and I hope someone can!) prove that a jump 2 or jump 3 ship can compete.

Guidelines:

1) the starship purchaser cannot put down more than 20% as down payment.
2) players must use "Standard" rules, not Home brew rules.
3) the circumstances must not be "unique" based on two specific worlds - in
other       words, the ships must be able to compete Universe wide, not
niche wide.

  Currently, in my universe - revenue is based on both distance and on
time.  A jump 3 ship not only gets the full distance rate, but a time
bonus.  To put it better, a jump 3 ship can jump 3 parsecs in one week,
while a freighter jump 1 has to do it in at least 3 weeks plus refueling
times.  The income generated per cubic meter of volume should not be the
same for both the jump 3 as well as the jump 1 ships.
  In any case, those who do try this "test", good luck in proving me wrong
<grin>

        Hal

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:12:51 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Port Records

Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> types:
>>GDW GAMES wrote:
>>> I expect Lloyds have records that go back farther than that. A lot of this
>>> stuff is spotty, the further back in time you get (Gawd, what I wouldn't
>give
>>> to have the publication rights to one intact Roman census).
>>They do.  Their records were the basis of one of what-his-name's Connections
>>episode (2nd series I think).  Scary how accurate and detailed these TL (5?)
>>records are.
>A C Clarke perhaps? The TL would be more like 2 or 3.

    James Burke.   He has a column called Connections in Scientific American.
The series were great stuff.  Watch them if you can.




- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:30:10 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

>As the Fifth Frontier
>War grows closer, I'm going to reveal the cause of the abortive Fourth War:
> To prevent the Imperium from landing in force on Andor and Candory.
Are Andor and Candory the Droyne worlds in the Marches?

Wasn't there some reference to a march Droyne world (red-zone) being blockaded
by battleships? Makes one wonder what a non-starflight world full of flying
lizards has done to require major fleet combatants overhead...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: 10 Mar 1998 17:33 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Transponders; Gilgamesh; Life Support Costs

136-1017
Dear Diary,

Flicked off the transponder in jump to Treece.  Good pickings 
there, because it's near Inthe, which is up-and-coming but
doesn't really control its border worlds much.

Some of the liners' ships have built-in transponders that blink
out an identification string, which can be indexed to a databank
of flight plan histories (if the starport has them).  Must be
quite a string!  Also, some of these new gizmos allows remote
access to the ship's central computers, allowing traffic control
to reprogram or even fly in the ships.  They say it's for high-
traffic ports and emergencies, but it smells like a military 
thing to me.  At least the Imperium doesn't mandate transponders 
at all.

Take Treece.  It gets a few shipments and some cross traffic,
but if nobody blinks Treece Down, nobody cares.  Now Inthe is
a different story.  A little while ago, when the Xboat route
began to go up there, they started up with these transponder
rules and flight regulations, claiming that traffic would get
too dense to be manageable without at least "hello world"
transponders.  And so it goes, with bigger ports having more
restrictions.  If you want to trade at Inthe but don't have
a transponder, they make you wait out there at the 100d limit
while service ships manhandle your goods.  That can get
expensive, as well as dangerous for pirates like me.

Then there's those military ships.  Sheesh, they broadcast
more information than anybody else, except maybe corporate
ships.  But you can't listen in, because it's all encrypted
in some funny way.

Me, I'm happy with a simple blinker.  If I want them to know
I'm here, I blink.  They can scan me if they're really 
interested in my ship, but there are so many small-time
traders just trying to make a living that they don't have
time to ping every one of us.  And that's why I still have
a job.

Sunbeard the Pirate

150-1017
Dear Diary,

Did some reading for my First Imperium Impact correspondence 
course.  Apparently they liked nothing better than to sow a
colorful mythology on border worlds.  Take Terra for example:
they apparently planted a colony in Mesopotamia to infiltrate
and influence the natives, who created a pantheon from the
Vilani family names represented by the colonists.  Gilgamesh
himself purportedly visited Ishnapushtim, a minor Vilani
noble who was somehow confused with Deucalion or Noah.  The
records state that Gilgamesh had to proceed through a maze of
TL 1 bureaucracy to even find Ishnapushtim.  And don't even
ask about Enkidu or Humbaba!

Sunbeard the Pirate

178-1017
Dear Diary,

Boy, the groat-feces some people try to fling at me, an honest
pirate, just because I don't follow their rules.

Welcome to the 3rd Imperium, the universe's greatest interstellar
empire.  As a mega-honking feudal state that can sidestep physics
with things like the Jump drive, they have the power to reduce all
costs of everything to zero if we just redistribute the wealth
evenly and place production in the able hands of the Stewards of
the People.  Heh.

However, this not being a perfect universe.  We have here the
market-run feudal system, complete with with regulation, bureaucracy, 
economics, industrialization, and information systems all mashed
together.

What with all the safety overheads, regulations, purgings, recyclings,
rechargings and refurbishings, running passengers can get pretty
expensive.  Luckily for us pirates, scrimping isn't illegal if
you can get away with it, and we can charge a lot less than the
certified traders.  Sure the food's a little old, and the water's
a little tepid.  The staterooms smell lived-in;  but heck, ye gets
what ye pays for.

Look, the way I see it, I'm the master of my own game; if I want to
run a cheaper operation, that's my problem.  I figure the potential
consequences are worth the risk.  So I sits meself down and decide
what I can, er, cut corners on.  I don't tell nobody how to run
their ship;  and I don't have to take others' advice.  Some of us
don't go by the rulebook; what can I say?  It's always been the case.
That's what makes the universe human-habitable: we're able to break 
the rules.  Maybe it'll catch up with us, or maybe we can outrun it.

Ah, this First Imperium correspondence course is making me wax
philisophic.  Time to pillage!

Sunbeard the Pirate

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:46:01 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Chirper

At 16:13 1998-03-09 -0800, you wrote:
>   Chirpers appear to be Droyne children (not that this is generally 
>known even in 1100).  So they look similar to small Droyne, but 
>without any of the caste adaptations, and less intelligent.  They 
>have limited social organization, living in small groups largely as 
>gatherers.

What I know about the Droyne is that they have wings, and also that they
spread  the human species out through most of the galaxy. That's about it.

Could someone please give me a quick explanation of how Droyne (and
Chirpers) look (physically), how they act/think and how their caste system
works?

>   I don't know if they are covered in current supplements; my 
>information comes from Alien Module 5 and Research Station Gamma.  I 
>can type up what they have as Library Data entries if you like.

Yes, thank you. That would be very helpful.


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Linkping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:00:47 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: A Templar Plot...

Kenji Schwarz wrote:

> Someone impersonating SD Mooney wrote:
>
> >Kenji is that really you?
>
> Which one of us?  You realize, of course, that there's also two Kenjis on
> the TML? <G>

And you further realize, of course, that there are two TMLs?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:04:07 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: T4 Stats Test

Don Stark wrote:

> > I studied mathematics through advanced calculus and although much of it escapes
> > me now, I have never seen a double exponent x^y^z.
>
> Clearly you weren't paying too close attention in your algrbra classes.
> Think of it as (x^n)^m and it might make more sense.

You can see how much I've forgotten.  Those parentheses make all the difference in
the world.  :-)

(I hope my math teacher isn't watching).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:06:21 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

At 02:30 PM 3/10/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>As the Fifth Frontier
>>War grows closer, I'm going to reveal the cause of the abortive Fourth War:
>> To prevent the Imperium from landing in force on Andor and Candory.
>Are Andor and Candory the Droyne worlds in the Marches?
>
>Wasn't there some reference to a march Droyne world (red-zone) being
blockaded
>by battleships? Makes one wonder what a non-starflight world full of flying
>lizards has done to require major fleet combatants overhead...

Since none of my players are TMLers, I'll spill the beans.

Andor is the site of the machine that creates the Net and allows jump to
occur.  Buried deep within the planet, the complex maintains the Net
without maitence, although there is a Droyne cult/secret society that tries
to figure out the Machine.

One unintended side effect of the Net is a Siren song drawing sentients
towards the Five Sisters Subsector.  This call, which was first noticed
almost 200,000 years ago, devastated several psionic races living in the
Core.   30,000 years ago, they sent a reply.  The Empress Wave.  The
Templars are aware of the wave's approach (there is a Templar telepath on
the Zhodani Core Expidition), and are trying to accelerate their search for
the Ancient Homeworld.
- --
+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
| "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the  |
|  stupidity of man."  -Gen. George S. Patton |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:25:23 -0500
From: jvhinkel <jvhinkel@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #263

> 
> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:59:47 +0000
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: A Templar Plot...
> 
> Fellow list members, we have been inflitrated:
> 
> The cases in point -
> 
> 1) MJD and the other MJD
> 
> 2) Marc Miller and the other Marc.
> 
> 3) Semo@aol and the new Semo.
> 
> 4) Myself and the other Dom, and now myself and another SD!
> 

AND # 5) My real name is Jim V and there is a programmer who worked on the
galactic map program named Jim V...........

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:30:46 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Electronically-Published Adventures

This idea was mooted a while ago. Could the people interestsed in the
project please contact me privately? I may have the ideal adventure to
start the project off.

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:16:37 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Shuttle Down

Another is right here in Calgary, Alberta. Again, we just have an extra-long
runway.
In fact, the Concorde landed here way back in 1975, if memory serves, and I
believe
that aircraft also requires long runways.

Mark Urbin wrote:

> One of the alternate Shuttle landing sites is Stewart Airport in Newburg, NY.
> It's just a standard, although long, runway.  The Air Force flys C5's out
> that airport.
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:31:20 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T98#256] Some language questions

On Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:19:38 -0500, andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au
(Andrew Smith) wrote:

>1. What is the word for 'Aslan' (i.e. member of the Aslan species) in the
>Aslan language? 'Aslan' can't even be pronounced by most of them.

"Fteirle".  It's in one of the IG label products for T4.

>2. What do the Vargr call themselves as a race, or are they too fractious
>to be able to conceive of a general term for their species?

"Vargr", in at least one language.  It's pronounceable by them.
There's one or two proverbs in DGP's _Vilani_and_Vargr_ that
makes this pretty clear.  Coincidentally, it's the same word as
"Wolf" in one of the Terran Scandinavian tongues.

>3. Is the final 'e' on 'Droyne' pronounced?

No.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:31:28 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T98#256] Some language questions

On Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:19:38 -0500, "Electric Stitch Custom
Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net> wrote:

>>3. Is the final 'e' on 'Droyne' pronounced?
>>

>I have never pronounced Droyne with the final "e". Always with one syllable.

>New word: Solomani
>How is Solomani pronounced?

>I will try to explain my way and a friends way.

>1) Sal - oh - mahn - e

>2) Sah - lam - neye

3) Soh - luh - MAHN - ee

>Another: Zhodani

>1) Zodd - an - e

>2) Zah - da - neye

3) zshoh - DAH - nee  (zsh is the sound of 'z' in 'azure')

>Another: Vilani

>1) Vill - on - e

>2) Vill - a - neye

3) Vih - LAH - nee

Sylea:

1) Sigh - LEE - uh
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:31:35 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #260

On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:49:27 -0500, "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
wrote:

>That's the good news.  The bad news:  In upgrading my OS, I've lost alot of
>stuff.  Almost all of my Traveller files are gone (due to my own idiocy)...
> Most are recoverable from the web, but, I specifically need those things
>that I've written in the past:

>- - The InterAct music system
>- - The MicroFoil welding system.
>- - And, of course, the "Dress Me Up" doll.

These three items can be found in HTML format at Freelance
Traveller, http://www.tightbeam.com/FreelanceTraveller/, and
follow the links to "In a Store Near You".

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:26:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: A Templar Plot...

"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:

>At 10:59 AM 3/10/98 +0000, you wrote:
>>Fellow list members, we have been inflitrated:
>
>Whoops!  We've been found out.

<FNORD>

This is in fact part of a mission to determine those of us who would
subconsiously betray the cause. The mission will flush our deviant
colleagues into replying to the mail, and then they will be reabsorbed.

</FNORD>

>>Be afraid.... they're playing with our minds.
>But they're so soft and squishy!

I recommend a blender...

>>Kenji is that really you?
>
>No, Kenji is really me, and I'm a rogue Ancient AI system that was
>reprogrammed by the Hivers as part of a Manipulation/fraternity prank.
>
>>Dom
>
>Are you sure about that?

Yes we are.

Dom of Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:55:17 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Missions of State Review - *SPOILERS*

Review of "Missions of State"

Physically, it's great. There is new art (a Vargr on the inner back cover
for example, and lots of B&W pages) and the adventures are separated with a
backprint of a starry sky. One of my players commented that the only thing
IG need to do now is learn how to make the text look interesting with
sidebars and in line pictures. I agree with this - it is very hard to 'just
dip into' this book, it doesn't draw you in as it looks like a financial
report without the excitement of tables.

1 The Trial. Doug Stewart

Canon breaking effects are minimal ( a confused reference to the Long Night
happening to the 1st Imperium). The scenario is interesting and lets your
players be attorneys/barristers. Not bad at all, but possibly hard to run
on a couple of the players. I like this one's idea - different...

2 All the Universe's a Stage. 	Doug Stewart

Interesting read, based around the players as a covert ops team on
freighter, posing as entertainers. Unfortunately, it jumps up and down on
canon and rips it up and throws it in the bin...

Problems
- - refers to Ancients as the Droyne - a fact unknown until M1100
- - Set in a sector below Massilia ie Old Expanses ie beyond the limit to
expansion set by Cleon.. but this could be handwaved.
- - Briefly describes a triage system for conquering worlds that seems to
contradict M0's economic absorption...
- - The Vrast have FTL coms using Psionics. These are nominally limited to
one light year but there is nothing that prevents a chain of them being set
up. Additionally, the author seems to have confused 1 LY with 1 parsec.
- - The Vrast are noted as being on too much of an equal footing with the
Imperium to absorb.
- - Jump Torpedoes p24 - Say no more.
- - Implication that it takes about two days total  for the torpedo to jump
to the enemy fleet, and for them to return to rescue their scout.
- - Ship control card is messed up in filling out.

Conclusion - The scenario is very weak with respect to canon, but could be
fixed with a few mods. (eg replace the jump torpedo with a message torpedo,
move the sector the adventure is set in to trailing not rimward, have the
fleet in the outer system, make the Vrast a small PE and introduce a
lightspeed delay to Psionics). It'd be a great scenario then, as the
players get to play actors.

3. The 13th Corban (Doug Stewart)

This is a generally okay adventure, but has more of a Star Wars feel than
Traveller's classic and MT material. I've continuing doubts about the
author's understanding of Traveller Technology (he refers to adjusting
ship's weapons and jump capabilities dependent on the character's levels),
but I'm probably switched on to more minor things thanks to the gaffes in
'All the Universe's a Stage". The other potential canon mistake is a
discussion of 'when Cleon sent archeologists to the ancient ruined palace
of the First Imperium" and inscriptions apparently about a ZS emperor that
are all olde medieval style. Not necessarily impossible but it jars with
everything I've read about the Vilani and leads me to question whether the
author has read M0, even.

Anyway, the plot centres around some precious stones (the Corbans) of great
value that Cleon has become obsessed with. So obsessed with that he has
sent a Baron out to search for it threatening his wife and three daughters
if he doesn't find it (just for once it would have been nice to have sent
out the Countess....?) This image of Cleon jars - he's absolute ruler of
the 3I yet he doesn't send out the Scout service or some military/BIA
agents to get it?

The ship (the Ransom) departs with a really clever device on it - a
tracking beacon that allows the vessel to be followed anywhere by the navy.
Hmm. Can you say FTL commo? Or even the Millenium Falcon leaving the Death
Star? They arrive at the system that the Corban is supposed to be at, and
find the station abandoned, and reports of a liner (wandering the Rim!!!!!)
that may have been destroyed. Anyway friction occurs with up to two other
searching groups and then the scenario moves to the planet below. Anyway,
the players have to find the stone, solve the mystery of the liner and get
back to Sylea alive.

Summary - Space Opera that doesn't understand the history or technology of
Traveller.

4. Retian and Juenaire. (Doug Stewart)

I really like this, even though it's just Romeo and Juliette in M0. It
plays with honour (do the players help the lovers, or ensure that the
arranged marriage goes ahead?) and gives a nice feudal feel, something that
I feel is more related  to M0. One of the best scenarios in the book. I
can't say much more without ruining it.

Summary - Romeo and Juliette in M0 (Swords and Honour).

5. The Princess Clone (Doug Stewart)

This adventure involves the clone of a noblewoman, and the original's
attempt to regain her birthrights from an evil and nasty Duke. The scenario
includes a space battle and then a covert approach to a planet (somewhat
unfeasible but very dramatic). It's all very exciting, and then comes the
killer blow TL12 (I assume) teleport systems as a key plot device. Exit
Canon stage right. Anyway, the plot races to a conclusion in the depths of
the secret complex...

Summary - It was so much good fun until the teleport systems appeared. I
suspect you could work them out of this scenario, but it's a shame no one
resolved this.

6. A Piece of the Action (Doug Stewart)

This adventure is set in the Crab Nebula, which lies somewhere in the M0
Imperium. It involves the Emperor sending the players to investigate tax
losses from the Oasis system,  which stem from a second system hidden in
the nebula, identical to the first but an exact opposite. (Hurrah magic!
Seas where the other system has continents etc). Anyway, apparently all the
players need to do is a 360 deg (!) scan out for 1.5 Light years to find
the system. As Oasis is an Imperial system you'd think that the Scouts may
have done this previously... Anyway, faced with perils the players get the
opportunity to find the information that Cleon needs to act against the
system and have to escape.

Summary: the exact mirrored systems really blows holes in Traveller's
reputation as a hard SF game. And the meeting with Mr LeRoi (Cleon) blows
the mystique. Not good. Saveable with a major rewrite but why spend the
money on a prepackaged adventure?

7. The Gauntlet Cruise (James M Ward)

I approached this with trepidation after the unmitigated rubbish of the
Annililik Run. Unfortunately, justified IMO. The scnario is an AD&D
dungeon. The players are summoned to Hallen World as they are all long lost
relatives of the royal house. They get to carouse with the rest of the
nobility and then run the gauntlet decks (basically something like a SF
Deathtrap Dungeon). Like the Annililik Run, death comes easily.

Summary: The worst scenario in the book. D&D in space.

8. The Khiidkar Incident (MJ Dougherty and NA Frier)

This is the outstanding adventure of the book for me, and the longest (14
pages). It combines politicking, social graces and honour with a murder and
kidnapping plot. The adventure gives a very feudal feeling and the authors
liking of blade weapons comes out in the text ;-) There are detailed npcs,
and the plot is described and clearly outlined. If it suffers from anything
it is that the layout doesn't help make the adventure easy to follow if
dipping in quickly for reference. It could be a hard work for a less
skilled npc.

Summary: Politics, honour and intrigue - excellent.

9. Reverse Assimilation (Joseph E Walsh)

This is what happens when you let one of the M0 authors loose in the period
they wrote. You get a dark picture of how the Imperium expands and takes
the problem worlds bypassed until the end of the first century (this is one
of the first supplements to date in line with T4.1's draft). The players
have an opportunity to find out (possibly fatally) just how the Imperium
can abuse its position to absorb bypassed, content worlds. The scenario
describes the world and culture in depth, but once again is aimed at the
more experienced referee as there is no real linear plot to lead the
players. There are several detailed npcs. I really like this one two, and
the Khiidkar Incident only just beat this to be my favourite.

Summary - excellent background and plot which could be expanded to be a
campaign on a world. May be hard for a starting referee.

*Summary For Missions of State*

3 good adventures. The rest are average to poor with one dreadful one and
frequent breaches of canon. Coherent presentation but layout makes the book
unattractive to read. 5/10 overall.

The book demonstrates the need for a TL table in T4.1 like the one in the
MT refs companion.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:50:06 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Apologies

Greetings!

My sincerest apologies for sending my last message twice. My email 
program returned a delivery failure so... 

Suz

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #265
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, March 11 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 266



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [T98#256] Some language questions
Re: Captain's life
Re: Starship expenses
Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe
Traveller Stuff for Sale
Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe
Double Eagle
Ticket costs
Re: Starship expenses
Re: Starship expenses
Re: Robots
Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry
Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"
Re: Missions of State Review - *SPOILERS*
Re: Shuttle Down
Re: Starship expenses
Re: Why X-boats are J-4 (got long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:01:33 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: [T98#256] Some language questions

>Sylea:
>
>1) Sigh - LEE - uh
>--
>Jeff Zeitlin
>jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com
>


I've pronounced it Sill - ee - uh.  (Sill, pronounced like silly)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:28:38 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Captain's life

DustyLV769 wrote:

> The Israeli military has had co-ed combat arms forces for many years (and that
> includes gays as well).  They somehow still seem to function at a VERY high
> level of efficiency and morale...

 A coed military but, not units. They discontinued them some years ago.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
 Fortalice Desertum
 (Home of the ClusterNuke)
 AD. 1998

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:51:48 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
> Robert Eaglestone wrote:
> 
> >> Eris quoted prices.
> I do believe
> that people have to eat and breathe no matter where they are in the
> universe). So shouldn't the rules allow the Referee to distinguish between
> hard, unavoidable, applies-everywhere-in-the-univers costs like food and
> air and artificially inflated costs, so that he can easily adapt the rules
> to his own specifications?
> 

Now that makes sense.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:07:40 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

I've been thinking about what it would take to convert Traveller to a 3D
map while keeping consistency with the Traveller background.  After some
thought I decided that this couldn't be done unless the Imperium was bound
on the top and bottom.  Now if you decide that only stars with high
metallicity matter (the rest have no planets)  you can make a case that the
effective thickness of the galactic disk is, IIRC, about a 100 parsecs
thick.

This is too think to simply move the existing stars up and down as the
Imperium becomes too narrow side to side.  So that leaves us with the
following possibilities....

1) You come up with some reason why only stars within a disk about 10
parsecs thick have planets.  This is arbitrary, but then all you have to do
is scatter the stars over the 3rd dimension and pull the lateral dimensions
in a bit (and/or add some systems) to keep travel times to the frontier and
system spacing the same.

2) Assume that the disk is 100 parsecs high, but there is a rift above and
below the Imperium (or just on one side if you can put the Imperium at the
top or the bottom of the disk and still have Sol in the right place).

3) Just expand the third dimension to 100 parsecs, keep the distance to the
frontier the same, and expand the number of systems to keep the distance
between systems the same.  The would up the number worlds in the Imperium
by a couple of orders of magnitude.

I'm curious what people think about these approaches?  Which is better?
Are they an improvement over a 2D background?

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:48:53 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Traveller Stuff for Sale

 Hey folks,
 
here is the list of Lane's stuff for sale. Send email to me, not the
list, there is way too much stuff in here, and I don't want to have
to ignore digest posts (in the subject line).

My email address is merrick@rt66.com. I'm going to take bids for
stuff til, say, Monday--the 15th of March. High bid will get the
loot. Pick and choose among the stuff one at a time if you like, but
if a bid for the whole lot beats all the little ones, off it goes (a
lump buy would obviously be easier to ship, etc.).
 
Shipping would be additional, and it'll depend on what gets bought,
anyway.

I will post a list, and throw a copy on my website once there are
some bids in to let you know what is going on.
 
Classic Traveller
- -----------------
Book 1: Characters and Combat -  First edition.  Falling apart but
still complete.

Book 2:  Starships - Second edition.  Used condition.

Book 3:  Worlds and Adventures - First edition.  Used.

Book 4:  Mercenary - Used.

Book 5:  High Guard - Used.

Book 6:  Scouts - New condition.

Book 8:  Robots - New condition.

Supplement 1: 1001 Characters - Used condition.

Supplement 3:  The Spinward Marches - Very used; cover missing and
has been written in.

Supplement 8:  Library Data - Good condition.

Supplement 9:  Fighting Ships - Used condition (a couple drawings
were scribbled on by a kid).

Supplement 11:  Library Data N-Z - Good condition.

Introductory Adventure:  The Imperial Fringe - New condition.

Adventure 1:  The Kinunir - Good condition.

Adventure 2:  Research Station Gamma - Used.

Adventure 3:  TwilightUs Peak - Used (this was always my favorite).

Adventure 7:  Broadsword - Used.

Adventure 8:  Prison Planet - Used.

Adventure 9:  Nomads of the World-Ocean - New condition.

Adventure 10:  Safari Ship - New condition.

Adventure 11:  Murder on Arcturus Station - New condition.

Adventure 12:  Secret of the Ancients - Good condition.

Double Adventure 1: Shadows/Annic Nova - Slightly used.

Double Adventure 2: Mission on Mithril/Across the Bright Face - Good
condition.

Double Adventure 3:  Death Station/The Argon Gambit - New condition.

Double Adventure 5:  Horde/The Chamax Plague - Good condition.

Double Adventure 6:  Night of Conquest/Divine Intervention - Used.

JTAS No. 6 - Used.

Best of JTAS Vol. 1 - Used.

Best of JTAS Vol. 2 - New condition.

Best of JTAS Vol.3 - Good condition.

Best of JTAS Vol. 4 - Good condition.

The Traveller Adventure - Good condition.

The Spinward Marches Campaign - Used.

Alien Module 3:  The Vargr - Good condition.

Alien Module 8: DARRIANS The Secret of the Star Trigger - Good
condition.

Alien Realms:  Eight Excursion Beyond Human Space - New condition.

FASA Adventures:
- ----------------
The Legend of the Sky Raiders - Used.

The Trail of the Sky Raiders - Used.

The Fate of the Sky Raiders - Used.

Uragyad'n of the Seven Pillars - Used.

MEGATRAVELLER
- -------------
Referee's Companion - New condition.

Referee's Manual - Good condition.

Player's Manual - Good condition.

Rebellion Source Book - Good condition.

Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium - Good condition.

Imperial Encyclopedia - New condition.

MegaTraveller Alien Vol. 1:  Vilani and Vargr - New condition.

MegaTraveller Journal Vol. 1 - Good condition.

MegaTraveller Journal Vol. 2 - Used.

Traveller's Digest No. 14 - Good condition.

Used: may be stained with coffee, notes written, etc., but still
quite readable.
Good: Slight cover wear, no writing, etc.
New: like new.


 
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:56:23 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

I suppose that the real question that you have to ask, given that you are
nearly keeping a 2d universe, is what advantage flows from this?
At 21:07 10/03/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I've been thinking about what it would take to convert Traveller to a 3D
>map while keeping consistency with the Traveller background.  After some
>thought I decided that this couldn't be done unless the Imperium was bound
>on the top and bottom.  Now if you decide that only stars with high
>metallicity matter (the rest have no planets)  you can make a case that the
>effective thickness of the galactic disk is, IIRC, about a 100 parsecs
>thick.
>
>This is too think to simply move the existing stars up and down as the
>Imperium becomes too narrow side to side.  So that leaves us with the
>following possibilities....
>
>1) You come up with some reason why only stars within a disk about 10
>parsecs thick have planets.  This is arbitrary, but then all you have to do
>is scatter the stars over the 3rd dimension and pull the lateral dimensions
>in a bit (and/or add some systems) to keep travel times to the frontier and
>system spacing the same.
>
>2) Assume that the disk is 100 parsecs high, but there is a rift above and
>below the Imperium (or just on one side if you can put the Imperium at the
>top or the bottom of the disk and still have Sol in the right place).
>
>3) Just expand the third dimension to 100 parsecs, keep the distance to the
>frontier the same, and expand the number of systems to keep the distance
>between systems the same.  The would up the number worlds in the Imperium
>by a couple of orders of magnitude.
>
>I'm curious what people think about these approaches?  Which is better?
>Are they an improvement over a 2D background?
>
>____________________________
>Summers@Alum.MIT.edu
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:01:38 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Double Eagle

OK kids, here is a plasma rifle designed using TNE FF&S that I'd like
some feedback on...

PGMP-2 "Double Eagle" Double Barrel Plasma Rifle

The Double Eagle is a highly unusual two-chamber configuration plasma
rifle that integrates the supporting hardware normally located in a
backpack into the weapon frame itself (this was done to free the user
from the hassles associated with tangled power cords).  The frame is
additionally bulked up to reduce recoil to a manageable level.  Ideally,
the Double Eagle can be fired twice per 5 second combat turn-as a
practical matter only battledress equipped troops can take advantage of
this feature.

TL: 12
Manufacturer: Falcon Energy Systems
Ammo: 3.9cm x 11.6cm
Pulse Energy: 0.45 Mj
Weapon Length: 72 cm
Weapon Weight: 15.48 kg loaded, 13.32 kg empty
Weapon Price: Cr 4,080
Loaded Magazine Weight: 2.18 kg
Loaded Magazine Price: Cr 45
Ammunition Weight: 0.54 kg per round
Ammunition Price: Cr 11 per round
Features: optic sight, laser sight
                                                   -Recoil-
Round        ROF   Dam Val   Pen Rtg  Bulk   Mag   SS  Burst   Short
Range
0.45 Mj PPC   2      20      1-2-10    5      4    10    -         45

Note: Maximum range with laser sight is 240 meters

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:58:47
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Ticket costs

At
>
>Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:05:55 -0600
>From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
>Subject: Re: Starship Expenses
>

>So routine use of small staterooms for middle passengers wasn't allowed
>under most circumstances; and high and middle passengers had the same
>size staterooms.  Then, as I said yesterday, you can carry five middle
>passengers or four high passengers and baggage in twenty disp-tons, and
>the life-support cost difference makes outfitting for high passengers
>somewhat more attractive.
>

Why is it *required* that you cant put two paying passengers to a stateroom ?

>In addition, low berths only displaced half a ton, not a full ton; and
>emergency (livestock) low berths displaced a ton, not two.  This would
>explain why low berths are ever used; you can make more money with one
>than by hauling freight (kCr (2 - 0.2) versus kCr 1 per ton).  When
>was the displacement of low berths changed?

Dunno. But I can still imagine a starship having some low berths, even at
Cr900 net revenue, if it can normally fill the low berths but normally cant
get enough freight for the space the low berths take up. But thats a pretty
marginal case ...

>
>In order for the economic numbers to work, I'd think that we need to
>reduce low berth displacement back to classic Traveller volumes, and
>disallow use of small staterooms for middle passengers except when
>allowed for high passengers as well.

No, to make the passenger economics rules work we need to allow more
classes (first, second, economy, steerage and frozen) and relate the cost
of the ticket to both class and the distance travelled.

Cargo rates also have to be related to distance, maybe with a fudge factor
for time- or environment-sensitive cargo.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:51:48 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
> Robert Eaglestone wrote:
> 
> >> Eris quoted prices.
> I do believe
> that people have to eat and breathe no matter where they are in the
> universe). So shouldn't the rules allow the Referee to distinguish between
> hard, unavoidable, applies-everywhere-in-the-univers costs like food and
> air and artificially inflated costs, so that he can easily adapt the rules
> to his own specifications?
> 

Now that makes sense.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:01:20 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

[snip preamble about what others have proposed]

> No one has
> proposed any way to account for this cost that cannot be avoided in specific
> circumstances. So the rules should allow the Referee to take such specific
> circumstances into account and to assess the possible consequenses for the
> players. And those circumstance, and the risks involved in circumventing
> them, differ markedly according to which pescific explanation there is for
> the inflated price (Monopoly: Sneak into town and buy from independent
> suppliers; luxury food: tell crew and prospective passengers to eat meat
> loaf and like it; insurance: go without; mandatory insurance: cheat on
> passenger manifests; mandatory security equipment: bribe the inspector;
> government tax: cheat on tax returns, etc. As you can see, it makes a big
> difference just what the reason is).
> 

And allows the referee to manipulate the circumstances according to the
preferences of the PC's who should not be too surprised if they get
caught. 

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:55:07 +0000
From: --M <mitch@sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Robots

    I have scanned CT: Adventures 1 to 13, books 1 to 7, Double
adventures 1 to 5 and Supplements 1 to 13.  All are scanned to PICT
format B/W @ 150dpi.  The idea was to run the lot through the OCR and
create hyper linked set on CD.  So far I have only OCRed a couple of the
book as a test.  I kinda lost steam for the project awhile back.  the
subject came up on the list a while ago and most thought it was
impossible or would take some sort of incredible resources.  I think it
took me about 15 to 20 per book to do the scanning.  I think I would
have finished the whole thing if the OCR software I have wasn't so
buggy, it crashes alot on some page for unknown resons.

- -- M

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:13:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:
>>What makes you think it'll be erased at all? Port records from the 1600s
>>are still around. And I suspect that much airline schedule info is
>>still around even after years. Bureaucracies don't throw away info. And
>>in any case, this sort of thing doesn't take up all that much space. 
>
> Unless it's embarasing to someone.
>
> Hm. Plot idea. Gaps in old records indicate something's up. Why would
> there be no record of this ship? We know that it sailed, we have
> eye-witnesses. What was its real cargo? Why have the file access logs been
> security sealed for that year only?
>
> Alternately, the plotters forgot to erase the port registry backup tapes.

You've obviously never lived in a port city. Go down to the library and
go to the section where they have the newspapers from other cities.
Check the paper for any port city. There'll be a section listing ships
arriving, ships departing, and ships in port. 

It'd *very* hard to supress *that* info. The "newspaper" will have
spread too far, either as physical copies, as printouts, or as stored
data in someone's database. 

BTW, I note in other messages where folks are talking about cargo
manifests being part of the "official" data. I think that any such data
will be pretty vague. And speculative cargo (unless it's the majority
of the load) likely *won't* be listed. 

What the port records will have is what went thru *customs* in both
directions (ie cargo consigned from the ship to the planet, and cargo
from the planet to the ship). They *may* have records of what gets
transferred between ships in the extrality area. But this may be
limited to "4 type-1 cargo containers serial numbers WWW, XXX, YYY and
ZZZ". 

Consider that since the port *is* extra-territorial, any data regarding
transfers between ships will be limited to those the *ships* want to
have on record. There will be a fair amount of that, since it'll help
both sides of the transaction *prove* that they turned a specific
container over with seals intact. That's important when handing over a
cargo consigned to someplace farther down the line.

But skippers trading speculative cargo will examine the contents of the
container inside the ship that they are getting it from, then put their
seal on it. And not *want* records floating around as that makes it
harder for competitors to figure out what they are carrying (and thus,
what they might have to offer in a deal).

Note that having an unsealed container brought aboard and *then*
inspecting it is considered a dumb thing. You don't know *what* might
be in it. 

I'm assuming that the seals will incorporate something like public kety
technology, so you can be sure that the seal from XYZ shipping on Vland
really *is* their seal, not a fake.

The cargos on the big bulk carriers and megacorp ships will be general
knowledge. Most free traders will be listed as "general cargo".

I suspect that ships will file a flight plan that covers their course
out to wherever they plan to jump from, and then just list where they
are jumping to. 

Due to the variance in jump duration, it won't be *that* unusual for a
ship to arrive before word that it was coming. Even on an x-boat route.
Remember, there are going to be ships jumping to worlds *off* the main
routes. They may be the only traffic between those two systems that
*month* or even that *year* for the lower class ports.

Just as in our history it won't be *that* hard for a ship to claim to
have been making a run to some out of the way world and actually have
been going elsewhere.

Faking destinations has problems. With A or B ports on the ends of the
run, it's pretty much impossible. But the lower the class of the port
the less Imperial contact it has, and the less often its records get
compared with other ports. 

But the big problem is that if you aren't really going where you claim,
you don't dare advertise for passengers. Which makes you pretty
conspicuous.

I really don't see a lot of effort going into reconciling claimed jumps
with actual jumps. It'll happen almost by accident between high class
ports on xboat routes. And decline as you move away from the routes, or
the port class goes down.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:46:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"

In mail you write:

> But flipping a coin isn't random, merely difficult to calculate.And the
> 'heads' side of US coins causes them to land head-side down more often than
> not due to the additional weight on that side.
>
>> But if  the
>> test subject guesses _wrong_ in all 15 trials what should we take
>> this to mean?
>
> [snip]
>
> And ask it the other way:  what does it mean if subject gets 15 of 15
> right?
> - Able to correct predict the outcome?
> - Able to manipulate the outcome psionically?
> - Just damn lucky?
> - Or really good at controlling the flip (especially if you catch it and
> slap it on the arm - how do you think I got 10 for 15 when I tried this :-)

I resemble that last. More than Once I've had the pleasure of winning
when some jerk tried to pull the "heads I win, tails you lose" bit.
With a quarter, it's quite easy to catch the coin in such a way that
when you slap your hand on your arm, it goes *between* the fingers.
That makes it "on edge" and you win.:-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:25:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Missions of State Review - *SPOILERS*

In mail you write:

>
> This adventure is set in the Crab Nebula, which lies somewhere in the M0
> Imperium.

Glurk!

The Crab Nebula is something like 300 parsecs from Sol IIRC. That's
quite a ways outside the Imperium!

> It involves the Emperor sending the players to investigate tax
> losses from the Oasis system,  which stem from a second system hidden in
> the nebula, identical to the first but an exact opposite. (Hurrah magic!
> Seas where the other system has continents etc).

Good grief, the effects on climate *alone*. And the "slight problems"
with how the heck you get the tectonic plates to move that way...

If it wasn't for the fact that I don't want to move, I'd consider
asking for a job as "continuity editor" at IG. Of course, since they
aren't going to be producing anything any time soon, they wouldn't hire
one.

But a job like that, staffed by someone as knowledgable as we are *and*
a "writer's bible" for both the traveller universe and for the
individual Milieus is *obviously* going to be needed before any future
materials are produced.

I'm sorry, but most of those adventures should never have been
*submitted* with those errors, and if submitted, should have been
returned with explicit instructions to fix the various canon and
science problems.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:03:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Down

In mail you write:

> One of the alternate Shuttle landing sites is Stewart Airport in Newburg, NY.
> It's just a standard, although long, runway.  The Air Force flys C5's out
> that airport.

Back when they still planned to fly some missions from Vandenburg AFB
(only launch site we have that can get decent payloads into polar
orbits) one of the emergency landing sites was *Easter Island*!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:05:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

In mail you write:

>>>[...]
>>>Air filters and water filters must be changed daily.
>
> You don't think much of high technology, do you? You completely miss the
> point that if it is a true expense (ie. not just someone with a monopoly
> jacking up the price unconciously) then the same apply for artificial
> environments everywhere, and it suddenly become more than 15 times as
> expensive to live on an airless world or in space as it does on a world
> with a breathable atmosphere. Which agrees rather badly with a lot of
> background details.

Please note that it's *easier* to do life support for a large station
than for a ship. And even easier for a large colony. Not only do
economies of scale apply, but the sheer *size* of the "biosphere"
involved helps stabilize things.

>>>Some of the minor moving parts modules must also be replaced daily (they
>>>and the filters may be recycled at the next starport).  There must
>>>be a minimum of 30 meals per passenger on board, and 10 days of
>>>drinking water.
>
> And if the food isn't used it can be served to the next passenger.

You aren't going to get away with serving "canned food" to High
passengers. You'll be serving them fresh food. Which you can't count on
being able to use next trip.

This isn't an airliner. It's an ocean liner. And that means things like
fresh food for the "first class" passengers. (I just saw an episode of
"Victory Garden" on PBS where for some reason they took a tour of a
cruise ship's foood storage. Most impressive.)
  
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:51:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Why X-boats are J-4 (got long)

In mail you write:

>><snip>
>>> A Boat will always leave one hour after the arrival of an incoming
>>> boat, even if a boat has left that day already.

>>Slight problem. It can take more than an hour to transfer the data from
>>the incoming boat to the outgoing one.
>
> Think so?  Why?  I can't remember any CT books that said so, but that's not
> unusual.

When we were working on FF&S2, I tried putting together some info on
things like bandwidth and data storage. And it doesn't look like things
are going to change.

> Also, I figure that's one area that the X-Boat has the corner on.  You can
> use a big-bandwidth laser communicator if you're afraid of eavesdroppers,
> and zap a few Gazillion Jacobytes of data in no time at all.  (note my
> intentional nonuse of real numerical description, I figure the available
> technology will keep up with the desired capacity as time goes by).

As I noted elsewhere the "transmission" technology has *never* matched
the bandwidth of transporting physical media. Be it telegraph versus
shipping ledger books, or a OC-3 link versus Fed-Exing a box of CD-ROMs.

There's a *hard* limit on what you can send over that laser link. One
set by phsyical laws, not by technology. And frankly, with *current*
storage systems we could store more than an hour's worth of data at
that rate in the space available on an X-boat.  (consider the data that
can be stored on one displacement ton of CD-ROMs!)

You can try using several lasers at different frequencies, but that's
limited by various factors. On the other hand, with an optical fiber,
due to media characteristics, you can get a slightly higher data rate
*and* avoid interference between the multiple frequencies. Add in the
ability to use several *dozen* fibers in parallel and you've got the
laser link beat.

So as I said in another post, the laser link/radio link/whatever will
be used to send the equivalent of newspapers and news programs. The
more private stuff will get sent over a multi-fiber cable once the boat
is docked.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #266
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, March 11 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 267



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: X-Boat turnaround
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #265
Re: Discrimination (was: Captain's Life)
Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #266
Re:Where should I start?
Re: X-boats
Vehicles
Re: Shuttle Down
IMTU Pronunciations
The case for negative Psi (Was: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP")
Re: Traveller Stuff for Sale
Re: Traveller Items for sale or trade
Blade weapons & Electonic Adventures
Infiltrators
Re: Robots
Re: Shuttle Down
Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe
Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe
Query for Marc and GDW
Re: X-boats
Re: IMTU Pronunciations
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #266
Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:50:30 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: X-Boat turnaround

Shadow Writes;
>I suspect that crew either get more time between runs, or else they get
>frequent vacations.
Pete writes:
>I saw them as working for two weeks (+/-) straight then getting a week or
>so off at their "home" planet, or perhaps working the "day shift" 3-4 days
>before the next run.  In any case it was a detail that seemed unimportant.

    In my campaign, X-boat "pilots" are a bit like lighthouse keepers. The
turnaround time is sufficiently small that allowing for personel transfer
would impact on their efficiency. They only transfer personnel during their
semi-annual maintenence (It is done twice a year since the ships are in
continual use). Then they can get a month off.
    Of course they also collect big bonuses for the duty. Since they are
always short of volunteers there are big cash-incentives for taking on the
duty, cumulative for the number of terms served. Naturally x-boat pilots
tend to be a bit stir crazy, especially when having just come off of duty.
Those who have taken successive terms can sometimes find difficulty
readjusting to reality and become career X-boat pilots. They are mainly
known for their legacies. They make wagaloads of money as the bonuses
cumulate but never use it since they don't mix with society. When they
eventually die, having no heirs, they tend to leave their money to a rather
strange unexpected groups.
    I ran a whole group through basic training in the Scout Service. The
big drive during it all was that if you did very well you got assigned into
exploration. If you did not do very well, you got assigned to the X-Boats.
Boy were they motivated.

    One of the background elements of my campaign was an "Immortal" (best
explained in another message) who didn't do well enough in Scout training
and got assigned to the X-boats. Becoming terminally bored she played with
the safeties on the emergency low berth and started spending her jump time
in the deep freeze. This, of course, blew all operational and safety
regulations, but she was lucky and didn't suffer a fatal thaw before she
was caught. After being repremanded she was sent back for another tour of
X-boat duty. But her body and mind had become so adjusted to the
freeze-thaw cycle that she found she could slip into suspended animation in
jumpspace without the aid of the low berth (the way low berths work is only
party physical in my campaign).
    As her end-of-assignment options come up she keeps selecting "re-enlist
in X-Boat" because it has the biggest cash tag and she feels she could
handle "just one more" tour. Similarly she opts out of down-time for the
cash bonus because she doesn't feel she really needs it. Occasionally, when
transferring between ships at maintenence time, she reads her e-mail and
keeps in contact with some friends she graduated with. Eventually she
decides to take time off to attend a get-together party they are planning.
    Only when she arrives at the bar does she realise that 30 years have
passed. At first she doesn't believe it, (they think it is a joke, at
first) but checking her bank balance brings her unquestionably back to
reality.

   Cheers,
                       Jo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:25:47 -0500
From: jvhinkel <jvhinkel@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #265

> 
> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:36:46 +1300
> From: Raymond John Gray <raygun@ihug.co.nz>
> Subject: Pocket Empires Help
> 
> Does anybody have an EXCEL SS that takes all the numbercrunching out of
> Pocket
> Empires....
> 
> Raygun



Let me know too! That would be a great help!!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:15:37 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Discrimination (was: Captain's Life)

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) types:
>s.johnson107@genie.geis.com writes:
>>    But OC you silly stupid ignorant MAN, don't you know that woman are
>>incapable of discrimination?
>My sister would take them apart.  Quickly.
>She's a practising paramedic, and HATES separate standards, because
>several times her life has depended on partners/firefighters being able to
>do their jobs. So far Calgary has managed to avoid that (I think), but I
>dread the day it happens.
>Mind you, she also supports requalification testing so that once you're in
>you don't let yourself slide...

      Back in the early 80's RPI lowered admissions standards for females.
  The loudest screams came from the women already on campus.  They got to
the point of quizing incoming female freshmen about their test scores.

	In Traveller, the point is moot.  Character generation does not make
gender modifications.  
One way to wandwave this (if you feel the need), is minor gene mods.  This
could have been fairly standard for Solomani during their expansion period.
 Make everybody a little tougher, a little stronger.  
	

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:39:22 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

>Are they an improvement over a 2D background?
In summary, I don't think you can make the current Imperium 3D unless you
change _everything_. I've run a 3D campaign for years in a variant
universe. It makes a huge difference to enough fundamental things to
invalidate most of the background of the Imperium. Some examples:

*No Rifts. You can play with density functions all you want. Without
hand-frigging all sorts of things you are not going to get rifts of any
special significance. They will always be easy enough to get around or jump
through. This is mainly because you can reach a whole lot more jump points
if you are jumping in 3D rather than 2D.

*Indefensible Borders. Again, for the same reasons it is easy to jump
through most low density regions, it is hard to blocade a 3D border (or 2D,
actually :-). It is bad enough in normal 2D traveller with jump-4 ships,
who can jump over your line, but it gets several magnitudes worse in 3D.
Border politics become more of building defended bases you can raid outward
from.

*No sector mains. Even a jump-1 ships has a lot more routes to choose from.
You can get from almost anywhere to anywhere via jump one. You have to
really zap the density way down to stop this happening.

*Related to the above two is that individual words are not that important.
There are almost no pivotal places where important routes, or defenses go
through just one world. There are always alternatives.

*Space is big, really big. There are _lots_ of stars. My players spent
several years (real time) in a less than 5x5x5 cube.

*Anything you want, you got it. Say you are looking for a high tech, low
law planet. Odds are you can find one within 3 or four jumps. Because the
number of systems is so much higher in 3D you can find almost anything you
want right on your doorstep.

Oddly enough, one of the non-problems, that is frequently mentioned as a
problem, was player confusion. My players are some of the most
non-technical around. But, with a chunky text-based software viewer, they
had no problem working where to go, etc, etc. Now they also seldom thought
more than one jump ahead, but...

>I'm curious what people think about these approaches?  Which is better?
All of them suffer from, more or less, just making the Imperium 2D in a 3D
substrate. There really isn't much point in that. When I did it, I kept the
general Imperial history, but dropped the actual details. Since they never
wanted to leave their little 5x5x5 cube, those sort of macro-features
didn't matter much.

The fundamental problem with 3D is that, as your jump range increases, you
can get to a whole lot more worlds. One approach to take that I haven't
tried is to directly combat this. On a flat world, Jump-1 is one parsec and
reaches 6 other worlds. Jump-2 is two parsecs and reaches 17 worlds (?).
What you could do is define a different jump-metric for your 3D mechanics.
Jump-1 is, say, less that 1 parsec, such that it only reaches the positions
where 6 worlds can be. Jump-2 is 1.something parsecs such that it can only
reach 17 worlds. The distance per jump-factor will cease to be linear, but
there are a lot of physical things like that.
If you want perfect compliance, you probably need to change the planetary
locations to fractions of parsecs.

Cheers,
Jo


PS: I've noted an increasing propensity for posters to quote whole articles
and only make one or two lines of comment. PLEASE don't do this. It is bad
enough wading through all the numerology, e-mail ordering, and fnord posts
as it is. Give the internet a break and reduce the bandwidth...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:08:15 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #266

>You've obviously never lived in a port city.

Yup. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan is pretty far from the sea. Toronto is a
port, but I live north of the city.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:48:44 -0600
From: iresources@juno.com (Vic&Amy Canada)
Subject: Re:Where should I start?

I just want to thank my fellow TML'ers for the insights on which books to
get first.  The responses have been very helpful.


Vic
iresources@juno.com
http://www.iresources.net
http://www.iresources.net/ifc
http://www.evidence.net

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:59:51 -0600
From: iresources@juno.com (Vic&Amy Canada)
Subject: Re: X-boats

>It takes more than a "little" thrust. Luckily you can use a solar sail
>to supply it for (essentially) free.

Which book has the "solar sail" in it and/or what are the stats for one?


Vic
iresources@juno.com
http://www.iresources.net
http://www.iresources.net/ifc
http://www.evidence.net

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:57:58 -0600
From: iresources@juno.com (Vic&Amy Canada)
Subject: Vehicles

I love the names of the vehicles created and posted by Rob_Prior.  Very
Creative.  


Vic
iresources@juno.com
http://www.iresources.net
http://www.iresources.net/ifc
http://www.evidence.net

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:10:24 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Shuttle Down

At 01:03 AM 3/11/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> One of the alternate Shuttle landing sites is Stewart Airport in
Newburg, NY.
>> It's just a standard, although long, runway.  The Air Force flys C5's out
>> that airport.
>
>Back when they still planned to fly some missions from Vandenburg AFB
>(only launch site we have that can get decent payloads into polar
>orbits) one of the emergency landing sites was *Easter Island*!

Didn't Greg Benford write a story about the shuttle landing on Easter
Island?  I know the grounded shuttle appears in Earth...
- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 11 Mar 1998 11:17 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: IMTU Pronunciations

(Apologies: this uses the American English phoneme set)

Droyne: as in groin
Solomani: solo  + m-ah-n' + ee
Zhodani:  zho   + d-ah-n' + ee
Zhodane:  zho'  + dane (as in Danish)
Vilani :  vil   + ah-n '  + ee
Sylea  :  sigh  + lay     + uh

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:25:32 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: The case for negative Psi (Was: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP")

Bloo said:
> > Random chance says that the number of right and wrong guesses
> > should be equal (statistical flukes not withstanding).
>
> But flipping a coin isn't random, merely difficult to calculate.And the
> 'heads' side of US coins causes them to land head-side down more often
than
> not due to the additional weight on that side.

Then  perhaps  the  test  at  GenCon   was   being   administered
incorrectly.  Lets say for the sake of argument that you  have  a
'balanced' coin being flipped by a disinterested third party.

> > But if the
> > test subject guesses _wrong_ in all 15 trials what should we take
> > this to mean?
>
> [snip]
>
> And ask it the other way: what does it mean if subject gets 15 of 15
> right?
> - Able to correct predict the outcome?

Evidence of psionic ability.



> - Able to manipulate the outcome psionically?

Again, evidence of psionic ability.



> - Just damn lucky?

Statistical fluke ... further testing required.



> - Or really good at controlling the flip (especially if you catch it and
> slap it on the arm - how do you think I got 10 for 15 when I tried this
:-)

Incorrectly administered test.



If the test subject has no abilty then he or she will receive  an
even ratio of rights and wrongs (assuming  a  little  statistical
fiction about averages).  Psi rating near zero.

If the test subject has ability then he or  she  will  recieve  a
favourable ratio of rights and wrongs.  Psi ratio above zero.

So does this mean that there is such a thing as negative ability?
(I know its not cannon.)



Possible light-hearted adventure idea:

A number of 'loosers' and klutzs start to go missing in the local
startown.   A  paranoid  businessman  is  kidnapping   them   and
surrounding himself with  these  people.  He  believes  they  are
unwitting victims of negative Psi and is attempting  to  creating
an anti-psi shield.  One such klutz is the daughter of a visiting
minor noble.  Said noble hires the PCs to  find  and  rescue  his
missing daughter.  (And such a rescue will be  plagued  by  minor
accidents, mishaps, and slap-stick humour!)



Regards PLST
"If eating animals is wrong ... oh, hell.  Time for a new tag line."
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:40:56 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Stuff for Sale

I bid $10 for book 8 (Robots)!

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:57:00 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Items for sale or trade

In a message dated 3/9/98 16:52:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,
scspieker@ncweb.com writes:

<< BOJTAS #2 (3) >>
Adventure #10 Safari Ship (2.5)
	Adventure #9 Nomads of the world ocean (2)

Scott,

Whats the asking price for these gems?

Ed (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:52:54 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Blade weapons & Electonic Adventures

Yeah, I admit it - I'm a sword nut. 

Anyone wanting to play swords come find me in the NE of England....


Are the guys who originally mooted the Electronic Traveller Adventures
still interested? If so - talk to me!

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:51:07 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Infiltrators

> > Subject: A Templar Plot...
> > 
> > Fellow list members, we have been inflitrated:
> > 
> > The cases in point -
> > 
> > 1) MJD and the other MJD
> > 
> > 2) Marc Miller and the other Marc.
> > 

The Other Marc is also The Other MJD.

The plot thickens!

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:06:35 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Robots

At 11:55 PM 3/10/98 +0000, you wrote:
>    I have scanned CT: Adventures 1 to 13, books 1 to 7, Double
>adventures 1 to 5 and Supplements 1 to 13
...
>I think I would
>have finished the whole thing if the OCR software I have wasn't so
>buggy, it crashes alot on some page for unknown resons.

Which software are you using?  I found TextBridge did not crash, but was
not screamingly wonderful at accuracy.  (I was trying to scan in First
Survey before Marc graciously released the data in electronic form.)

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:26:17 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Shuttle Down

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) types:
>In mail you write:
>> One of the alternate Shuttle landing sites is Stewart Airport in
Newburg, NY.
>> It's just a standard, although long, runway.  The Air Force flys C5's out
>> that airport.
>Back when they still planned to fly some missions from Vandenburg AFB
>(only launch site we have that can get decent payloads into polar
>orbits) one of the emergency landing sites was *Easter Island*!

   I know there was a book written about a Shuttle landing on Easter Island.
I never read it, but I remember seeing it.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!
Black as the devil, Hot as hell, Pure as an angel, Sweet as love. 
- -- Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Perigord; recipe for coffee 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:07:27 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:56:23 +0800, Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

>I suppose that the real question that you have to ask, given that you are
>nearly keeping a 2d universe, is what advantage flows from this?

Obviously greater realism and less of a burden on Suspension of
Disbelief.  That is the main problem with the 10 parsec disk, but
having an arbitrary limit it still has some unrealistic elements.
Even 10 parsec high is a long way from a 2D universe on the
individual system scale.  It is only 2D in the general shape
of the Imperium as a whole.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:56:31 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

At 1:39 PM +0000 3/11/98, Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:
>>Are they an improvement over a 2D background?
>In summary, I don't think you can make the current Imperium 3D unless you
>change _everything_. I've run a 3D campaign for years in a variant
>universe. It makes a huge difference to enough fundamental things to
>invalidate most of the background of the Imperium. Some examples:

>*No Rifts. You can play with density functions all you want. Without
>hand-frigging all sorts of things you are not going to get rifts of any
>special significance. They will always be easy enough to get around or jump
>through. This is mainly because you can reach a whole lot more jump points
>if you are jumping in 3D rather than 2D.

Doesn't getting around depend on the 3rd demension of the rift?  It
if is as high as it is wide, then it won't be any easier to get
around.  As to getting through, if the density is almost zero, I
don't see why there will be ways through.  Or is it that a density
that low seems unrealistic?

>*Indefensible Borders. Again, for the same reasons it is easy to jump
>through most low density regions, it is hard to blocade a 3D border (or 2D,
>actually :-). It is bad enough in normal 2D traveller with jump-4 ships,
>who can jump over your line, but it gets several magnitudes worse in 3D.
>Border politics become more of building defended bases you can raid outward
>from.

I raises the number of worlds you have to defend.  But the %age
of worlds within certain distance of the border is unchanged
(unless you are pulling in the lateral dimensions of the
Imperium).  I would say that this is more a an arguement
for "filling in" world so that you have the resources to defend
the border area.

>*No sector mains. Even a jump-1 ships has a lot more routes to choose from.
>You can get from almost anywhere to anywhere via jump one. You have to
>really zap the density way down to stop this happening.

This would be if you simply added layers above an below the
existing one (each with the same density of the original
one), right?  If you expanded the vertical, and just moved
the existing stars over the new dimension, the number of
jump 1 routes would decrease.

>*Related to the above two is that individual words are not that important.
>There are almost no pivotal places where important routes, or defenses go
>through just one world. There are always alternatives.

I think individual worlds are already more important for their
population and resources than for locations.

>*Space is big, really big. There are _lots_ of stars. My players spent
>several years (real time) in a less than 5x5x5 cube.
>
>*Anything you want, you got it. Say you are looking for a high tech, low
>law planet. Odds are you can find one within 3 or four jumps. Because the
>number of systems is so much higher in 3D you can find almost anything you
>want right on your doorstep.

I don't see either of these to be a problem.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:08:17 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Query for Marc and GDW

I have had a request for photocopies of A3 and A12 to complete a
campaign in search of the Ancients. In a number of notes back and forth,
the DM has managed to gather enough information, I gather, that he does
not require D1 (Shadows), A2 or the information from AM5. As I have
copies of these, but am unwilling to copy without your and/or GDW
consent, I would herby request that permission. I feel confident that
the *for personal use only* criteria will be maintained by the GM.

I told him that I would ask via the TML and that he would/may see the
answer there. How you respond is your preference.

Thank you

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:55:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: X-boats

On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Vic&Amy Canada wrote:

> >It takes more than a "little" thrust. Luckily you can use a solar sail
> >to supply it for (essentially) free.
> 
> Which book has the "solar sail" in it and/or what are the stats for one?

IIRC, the TNE version of Fire, Fusion, and Steel had solar sails as an
alternative sublight drive technology.  I don't know if the T4 version
kept those articles or not.  It's been a log time since I paged through
it, but Hard Times (MegaTraveller, Digest Group) might also have some
rules for them.  I can dig it up if you'd like.


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:21:40 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: IMTU Pronunciations

>(Apologies: this uses the American English phoneme set)
>
>Droyne: as in groin
>Solomani: solo  + m-ah-n' + ee
>Zhodani:  zho   + d-ah-n' + ee
>Zhodane:  zho'  + dane (as in Danish)
>Vilani :  vil   + ah-n '  + ee
>Sylea  :  sigh  + lay     + uh

This is going to turn into a "Minus Teerith" vs. "Meenis Tie-ruth"
discussion, but I agree with all but;

Sylea  : sigh + lee' + uh

And what about;

Regina : reh (like red) + gene' + ah
Aramanx : ah' + rah + moe  (I said '+ manks' until I met Jo Grant)
Nasemin : na' + zeh + min
Zila  : zee' + lah

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:14:39 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #266

Rob Prior wrote:
> 
> >You've obviously never lived in a port city.
> 
> Yup. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan is pretty far from the sea. Toronto is a
> port, but I live north of the city.

Hi Rob,

Just as an aside, I came from Moose Jaw (ok Kenji, have a ton of fun
with that one). Can get pretty dry there. But S'toon is a great place
IMO.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:37:49 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

I have also started to use a 3D universe for my Traveller game. I can tell
you now why GDW never did: it is a complete pain in the butt to map in any
way which makes distance relationships between systems immediately obvious.

There is however a really good resource for 3D mapping, a website owned by
Winchell Chung. It's at www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/starmap.html.


>I've been thinking about what it would take to convert Traveller to a 3D
>map while keeping consistency with the Traveller background.  After some
>thought I decided that this couldn't be done unless the Imperium was bound
>on the top and bottom.  Now if you decide that only stars with high
>metallicity matter (the rest have no planets)  you can make a case that the
>effective thickness of the galactic disk is, IIRC, about a 100 parsecs
>thick.
>
>This is too think to simply move the existing stars up and down as the
>Imperium becomes too narrow side to side.  So that leaves us with the
>following possibilities....

I won't argue with your figure for the 'effective' thickness of the
galactic disk, except to say it is one guess among many.


>
>1) You come up with some reason why only stars within a disk about 10
>parsecs thick have planets.  This is arbitrary, but then all you have to do
>is scatter the stars over the 3rd dimension and pull the lateral dimensions
>in a bit (and/or add some systems) to keep travel times to the frontier and
>system spacing the same.
>
>2) Assume that the disk is 100 parsecs high, but there is a rift above and
>below the Imperium (or just on one side if you can put the Imperium at the
>top or the bottom of the disk and still have Sol in the right place).

Such a rift would already be detected by Earth astronomers if it existed.
This may or may not be a problem for your setting.

>
>3) Just expand the third dimension to 100 parsecs, keep the distance to the
>frontier the same, and expand the number of systems to keep the distance
>between systems the same.  The would up the number worlds in the Imperium
>by a couple of orders of magnitude.
>
>I'm curious what people think about these approaches?  Which is better?
>Are they an improvement over a 2D background?

In preparation to move to a 3D universe I did as much reading as I could on
our best guesses for density of habitable planets in our part of the
galaxy. I came to the conclusion that they're about 1/10 as common as
Traveller suggests in 2 dimensions: a Traveller Sector (80 x 100 parsecs =
8,000 square parsecs) contains 450-650 habitable systems, but a 20 parsec
cube (8,000 cubic parsecs) should contain only 45-65 AFAIC. There are also
about 300-500 junk systems: multiple stars, red dwarfs, giants etc, that
are are going to be hard up for habitable planets, but are still mostly OK
for wilderness refuelling.

Similarly the average distance between habitable systems in 2D Traveller is
slightly less than 2 parsecs in this part of the galaxy, but I make it just
slightly less than 7 in a 3D one. There will be junk systems in between for
refuelling, but the time to travel from one habited planet to the next
increases markedly. (In fact I wimped out here and increased the ranges for
jump drives, but this is another story).

Why did I do it? Because I have always liked Traveller's emphasis on the
hardness of its science. OK so it contains magical devices like jump drives
and gravitics, but it deals with these in a rational, sensible and
'scientific' fashion. For me the problem has always been the 2D hex-based
mapping system: I've never been able to reconcile hard science with
interstellar maps you can play 'Ogre' on (and yes, I was drunk at the
time). 3D mapping is time-consuming and relatively more complicated, but
for me, the results were definitely worthwhile.
>
>____________________________
>Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

Andrew Smith

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #267
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 12 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 268



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: What Grey Thing?
Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)
Marcs broken promises (was:Missions of State-Review)
Re: IMTU Pronunciations
Blade weapons & Electonic Adventures
Re: Shuttle Down
Re: Missions of State Review - *SPOILERS*
Permission
Anti-Psi
Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe
Re: X-Boat turnaround
Re: X-boats
Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe
Re: Shuttle Down
Re: Shuttle Down
Re: A Templar Plot...
Re: IMTU Pronunciations
Re: Permission
Re: Ticket costs
An idle thought...
Re: Glow in the dark

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:32:30 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

>Wasn't there some reference to a march Droyne world (red-zone) being blockaded
>by battleships? Makes one wonder what a non-starflight world full of flying
>lizards has done to require major fleet combatants overhead...

They tried to unionize.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:32:36 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Personal Privacy (was Re: Captain's life)

Andrew Smith wrote:

>...as my oral hygienist suggests, I wince and spit my Aslan twice daily.
>And you?

Great... now I'm one of you people who sits around at work reading TML and
laughing so hard my co-workers get inquisitive.  Not only that, but I
snorted stale coffee through my nose and onto a keyboard (not mine).  Ah, a
filthy mind is never idle!

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:17:58 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Marcs broken promises (was:Missions of State-Review)

Hi
This makes me sad..
Really does. I am sure everybody remembers when Marc told us all on ther
list that no more products were going to be produced by IG without him
reading them and checking them first. Apparently, he didnt see Missions
of State either. Now, i must say i didnt buy the book and probably
wont now i read the review, as i feel that this poor job in
Canon-Research shouldnt be rewarded. However i am disappointed that
things like these still happen despite Marcs promise that they wont.
Was the Writers List consulted about this book? I think not.

Marc should really start to take charge of the game and supervise IGs
work. He should take care of stuff like this and send it back to the
writers for reworking until it is right. Mistakes like these ruin the
game for those of us who notice these mistakes (all old-timers, everyone
on the TML, etc.) Some newcomers probably wont notice, but do we truly
want to see them learning to play Traveller, Imperial Background with
some of these abominations? They will think of FTL-commo as possible,
Ultra-High-TL items as beint TL 12, the Droyne as known as the ancients,
or even exterminated (Anomalies), Jump Torps as possible, Star Wars like
jump travel, among others. In  the end, the Traveller background will be
so inconsistent, it will be no more fun.

I find it a pity that this has happened again and urge marc to fulfill
his promise to control the work of IG or whoever comes after IG. Please
do not let this happen again.

Finally, I must say that i find it a pity that the good adventures
included in the book cant be had seperately. Had this book been
published in electronic form, one could have read the review and picked
the ones to buy and the ones to forget about. This way, the book will
remain unbought, and the good adventures which Dom mentioned and which I
really would like to see and read and play, will remain unnoticed. I
will not buy the book just for the pearls if the rest is crap.
Period!


- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
*Volker A. Greimann...Am Weidengraben 86, C6...54296 Trier*
********http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061*********
****grei5001@uni-trier.de* or try * greimann@geocities.com****
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:06:04 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: IMTU Pronunciations

Peter Brenton wrote:

>>(Apologies: this uses the American English phoneme set)
>>
>>Droyne: as in groin
>>Solomani: solo  + m-ah-n' + ee
>>Zhodani:  zho   + d-ah-n' + ee
>>Zhodane:  zho'  + dane (as in Danish)
>>Vilani :  vil   + ah-n '  + ee
>>Sylea  :  sigh  + lay     + uh
>
>This is going to turn into a "Minus Teerith" vs. "Meenis Tie-ruth"
>discussion, but I agree with all but;
>
>Sylea  : sigh + lee' + uh
>
>And what about;
>
>Regina : reh (like red) + gene' + ah
>Aramanx : ah' + rah + moe  (I said '+ manks' until I met Jo Grant)

Eh?  What's that/why's that?  Linguonerds want to know!

>Nasemin : na' + zeh + min
>Zila  : zee' + lah

In backwards, 7-bit-transmittable ASCII IPA by my pronunciation:
Sylea, Regina, Aramanx, Nasemin, Zila
[sajli'j@  rEdZi'n@  &'r@m&Nks  n&'semIn  zi'l@]

All this points up the DESPERATE need for an expanded International
Phonetic Alphabet -- the Interstellar Phonetic Alphabet.  One able to
represent, within a single character set, the phonologies of _all_ the
various hominid languages and the major nonhuman language-using species.

I think there must be a section within the Admegulasha Argushiigi Bilanidin
which has been working on this project for the last 3000 years...  Wow!
What a TOTALLY GREAT theme for a M:0 campaign!

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:19:03 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Blade weapons & Electonic Adventures

"MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk> types:
>Yeah, I admit it - I'm a sword nut. 

    I prefer "Eclectic Fencer" myself.  
I posted a few monograms on swords in the Imperium and Imperial military
back when fencing was announced as skill in T4.   I also was involved in
the various melee weapons threads on the gearhead list.
    I'll dig up the old articles, put 'em on web page and post the URL.



- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!
Black as the devil, Hot as hell, Pure as an angel, Sweet as love. 
- -- Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Perigord; recipe for coffee 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:20:51 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Shuttle Down

At 01:03 AM 11/03/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:

>Back when they still planned to fly some missions from Vandenburg AFB
>(only launch site we have that can get decent payloads into polar
>orbits) one of the emergency landing sites was *Easter Island*!

The light dawns - that'll be why the Russian launches are so cheap for
polar orbits. They always had trouble getting decent equatoral payloads.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:35:15 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Missions of State Review - *SPOILERS*

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

>Glurk!
>
>The Crab Nebula is something like 300 parsecs from Sol IIRC. That's
>quite a ways outside the Imperium!

I know.... I know. That's why I mentioned it ;-)

>> It involves the Emperor sending the players to investigate tax
>> losses from the Oasis system,  which stem from a second system hidden in
>> the nebula, identical to the first but an exact opposite. (Hurrah magic!
>> Seas where the other system has continents etc).
>
>Good grief, the effects on climate *alone*. And the "slight problems"
>with how the heck you get the tectonic plates to move that way...

As I said, it has to be magic!

>If it wasn't for the fact that I don't want to move, I'd consider
>asking for a job as "continuity editor" at IG. Of course, since they
>aren't going to be producing anything any time soon, they wouldn't hire
>one.
>
>But a job like that, staffed by someone as knowledgable as we are *and*
>a "writer's bible" for both the traveller universe and for the
>individual Milieus is *obviously* going to be needed before any future
>materials are produced.

I'd happily do it ;-)

>I'm sorry, but most of those adventures should never have been
>*submitted* with those errors, and if submitted, should have been
>returned with explicit instructions to fix the various canon and
>science problems.

As I mentioned, the scenarios (particularly MJD's and Joe Walsh's) where
the author knows canon stand out and are well written. The others.....

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:12:24 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Permission

<<
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:08:17 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Query for Marc and GDW

I have had a request for photocopies of A3 and A12 to complete a
campaign in search of the Ancients. In a number of notes back and forth,
the DM has managed to gather enough information, I gather, that he does
not require D1 (Shadows), A2 or the information from AM5. As I have
copies of these, but am unwilling to copy without your and/or GDW
consent, I would herby request that permission. I feel confident that
the *for personal use only* criteria will be maintained by the GM.

I told him that I would ask via the TML and that he would/may see the
answer there. How you respond is your preference.

Thank you

Jim Cooper
>>

GDW being out of business*, Marc's permission is the only one that matters. 

*it's only remaining existence is this Email address, which I keep open for
old time's sake.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:12:19 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Anti-Psi

trisen@postmaster.co.uk querieth:

>So does this mean that there is such a thing as negative ability?

I have read that some Psi researchers postulate such negative abilities. It is
an explanation for why the results go _way_ down if a skeptic (someone who
doeas not believe in psi abilities) is involved in the testing. 

>Possible light-hearted adventure idea:
>
>A number of 'loosers' and klutzs start to go missing in the local
>startown.   A  paranoid  businessman  is  kidnapping   them   and
>surrounding himself with  these  people.  He  believes  they  are
>unwitting victims of negative Psi and is attempting  to  creating
>an anti-psi shield.  One such klutz is the daughter of a visiting
>minor noble.  Said noble hires the PCs to  find  and  rescue  his
>missing daughter.  (And such a rescue will be  plagued  by  minor
>accidents, mishaps, and slap-stick humour!)

The beauty of this is that th effect need not be real -- the businessman only
has to think it is..

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:57:14 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

Andrew Smith wrote:
> 
> I have also started to use a 3D universe for my Traveller game. 

[snip lots]

> There is however a really good resource for 3D mapping, a website owned by
> Winchell Chung. It's at www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/starmap.html.

and here as well. Try it. You may like it. I did and I did. (Copied from
a previous post)
.......................................................................
Jim Vassilakos wrote:
> 
> In penance for dragging my feet w/ respect to Galactic, here's a
> 3d starmapping program that some of you might like to check out:
> 
>         PROGRAM NAME: "STARMAP" [v1.0] {February 1998}
>         AUTHOR: Jim Vassilakos  (jimv@empirenet.com)
>         FUNCTION: 3d Starmapper
>         OPERATING SYSTEM: IBM (MS-DOS)
>         SIZE: 1,815,334 bytes zipped
>         COMMENTS: Create and explore three-dimensional starmaps
.......................................................................        
> >I've been thinking about what it would take to convert Traveller to a 3D
> >map while keeping consistency with the Traveller background.

[snip lots]

> >I'm curious what people think about these approaches?

a lot more work than is warranted, and you will find as I have that it
cannot be done successfully. There are just too many fudges you have to
make. Having said that, if you are willing to make the compromises,
then  by all means go for it.

> >Are they an improvement over a 2D background?

that will depend on your style of play and what you feel is important.
As has been pointed out to me, defending a border is nigh impossible as
now an enemy has a mutitude of directions to come at you from.

> In preparation to move to a 3D universe I did as much reading as I could on

this is a must, and you must be willing to try it as a gaming method in
and/or outside your present universe. Let your imagination roll and you
*will* come up with mega new ideas.

[lots more snipped]

> Why did I do it? Because I have always liked Traveller

and still do, and will come up with my own way to do it, fudges and all.

Jim
Have fun in 3D

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:24:41 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: X-Boat turnaround

Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:

[snip what Shadow & Peter wrote and part of reply]

>     I ran a whole group through basic training in the Scout Service. The
> big drive during it all was that if you did very well you got assigned into
> exploration. If you did not do very well, you got assigned to the X-Boats.
> Boy were they motivated.
> 
>     One of the background elements of my campaign was an "Immortal" (best
> explained in another message) who didn't do well enough in Scout training

If I have intepreted this correctly, I would be interested in an outline
of how you did it (+ the rest of the story re Immortal). 

If you are agreeable, I would suggest a private e-mail to keep the list
thread the same.

Thanks

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:53:58 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Vic&Amy Canada wrote:
> 
> >It takes more than a "little" thrust. Luckily you can use a solar sail
> >to supply it for (essentially) free.
> 
> Which book has the "solar sail" in it and/or what are the stats for one?

In case no one else has answered.

TNE - FF&S (1993 - Mk1, Mod 1 (January 1994)) - page 74, item 7 under
alternate technologies.

The pressure of sunlight on the sail inside the habitable zone of a star
system generates 0.5 kg (0.0005 tonnes)thrust per sq klm of sail. A sq
klm of sail with rigging weighs 0.5 tonnes. The thrust is constant and
free, but you can't be in a hurry.

To calculate G-hours thrust generated: divide total mass of spacecraft
including the sail by sail's thrust (sg klm area of sail x 0.0005):
gives acceleration needed to achieve 1 G-hour acceleration.
Multiply thrust x 10 if in inner zone, by 0.01 if in outer zone.

TL	Mass	MCr	TL:Tech level of first availability
 8	0.5	.001	Mass: Mass, in tonnes per square kilometer of
 9	0.4	.0005	      sail surface.
10	0.3	.0004	MCr:Price, in millions of credits, per square
12	0.2	.0003	    kilometer of sail surface
14	0.1	.0002	Vol:Stored volume of 1 square kilometer of solar 
16	0.05	.0001	    sale is 10 cubic meters.

Hope this helps.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:00:53 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

8<
>> >I'm curious what people think about these approaches?
>
>a lot more work than is warranted, and you will find as I have that it
>cannot be done successfully. There are just too many fudges you have to
>make. Having said that, if you are willing to make the compromises,
>then  by all means go for it.

What fudges? What compromises? The only one I considered important was
losing consistency with the 'geographical' aspects of the Traveller canon.
And now my campaign setting seems even more 'realistic' than it did. A fair
trade.

>
>> >Are they an improvement over a 2D background?
>
>that will depend on your style of play and what you feel is important.
>As has been pointed out to me, defending a border is nigh impossible as
>now an enemy has a multitude of directions to come at you from.

It really depends how you define 'border'. Certainly even in 2D space, the
border can not possibly be a fortified, bolded hex-edge line with units
stacked up along it. It's a kill-zone consisting of isolated stellar
systems floating in space, broader than the ability of the invader to cross
with a single Jump. The invader must establish a bridgehead at at least one
of the border systems to continue the invasion. You meet them at definitie
points on the curve.

A 3D setting merely increases the complexity of the problem, rather than
making it impossible. OK, so you have more border to defend (being
proportional to the square of your radius, rather than to the first power).
But unless your enemy is significantly bigger than you are (in which case
you should really avoid a war with them anyway), they are going to be
restricted in the number of different ways they can come at you. If their
supply lines get too long, you can cut them off at the roots.

8<
>Jim
>Have fun in 3D

Oh Yeah,
Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:56:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Down

In mail you write:

> At 01:03 AM 3/11/98 PST, you wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>> One of the alternate Shuttle landing sites is Stewart Airport in
> Newburg, NY.
>>> It's just a standard, although long, runway.  The Air Force flys C5's out
>>> that airport.
>>
>>Back when they still planned to fly some missions from Vandenburg AFB
>>(only launch site we have that can get decent payloads into polar
>>orbits) one of the emergency landing sites was *Easter Island*!
>
> Didn't Greg Benford write a story about the shuttle landing on Easter
> Island?  I know the grounded shuttle appears in Earth...

Only one I know of is "Shuttle Down" by Lee Correy (aka G. Harry
Stine). It had the misfortune to be re-released just in time for the
Challenger disaster.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:58:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Shuttle Down

In mail you write:

> At 01:03 AM 11/03/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>Back when they still planned to fly some missions from Vandenburg AFB
>>(only launch site we have that can get decent payloads into polar
>>orbits) one of the emergency landing sites was *Easter Island*!
>
> The light dawns - that'll be why the Russian launches are so cheap for
> polar orbits. They always had trouble getting decent equatoral payloads.

The way it works is that launching into an orbit with an inclination
*greater* than your latitude is easy. Going for a lower inclination
requires an inclination change burn, and those are *expensive*.

The limits we run into in the real world are that you also have to
launch in the right *direction* unless you want to make one of those
inclination change burns. And the directions you can launch are limited
by range safety concerns. Cape Kennedy can't launch except on paths
that pass over the "cleared" range areas, and that prevents north and
south launch paths. North would go right up the east coast of the US,
*way* too built up to risk anything falling on it. South goes over too
many caribbean islands. 

Vandenberg *can* launch due south. And the Soviet sites have cleared
north or south "downrange" areas. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 23:42:21 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: A Templar Plot...

That's ok, it will all become very clear in a little while... now relax and
watch the computer screen... see the way it flickers in such a pretty
pattern.. just relax.. you are feeling sleepy... sleepy...

(ok, here's another one ready! Remember we replace him with an exact double
and no one will ever know..)

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: A Templar Plot...


>I'm very confused.... :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:04:00 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: IMTU Pronunciations

Kenji Schwarz wrote:
> 
> Peter Brenton wrote:
> 
> >>(Apologies: this uses the American English phoneme set)
> >>
> >>Droyne: as in groin
> >>Solomani: solo  + m-ah-n' + ee
> >>Zhodani:  zho   + d-ah-n' + ee
> >>Zhodane:  zho'  + dane (as in Danish)
> >>Vilani :  vil   + ah-n '  + ee
> >>Sylea  :  sigh  + lay     + uh
> >
> >This is going to turn into a "Minus Teerith" vs. "Meenis Tie-ruth"
> >discussion, but I agree with all but;
> >
> >Sylea  : sigh + lee' + uh
> >
> >And what about;
> >
> >Regina : reh (like red) + gene' + ah
> >Aramanx : ah' + rah + moe  (I said '+ manks' until I met Jo Grant)
> 
> Eh?  What's that/why's that?  Linguonerds want to know!
> 
> >Nasemin : na' + zeh + min
> >Zila  : zee' + lah
> 
> In backwards, 7-bit-transmittable ASCII IPA by my pronunciation:
> Sylea, Regina, Aramanx, Nasemin, Zila
> [sajli'j@  rEdZi'n@  &'r@m&Nks  n&'semIn  zi'l@]
> 
> All this points up the DESPERATE need for an expanded International
> Phonetic Alphabet -- the Interstellar Phonetic Alphabet.  One able to
> represent, within a single character set, the phonologies of _all_ the
> various hominid languages and the major nonhuman language-using species.
> 
> I think there must be a section within the Admegulasha Argushiigi Bilanidin
> which has been working on this project for the last 3000 years...  Wow!
> What a TOTALLY GREAT theme for a M:0 campaign!
> 
> Kenji Schwarz
> kenji@accessone.com

Kenji

That's a really good idea and theme. And they doubted your genius.
Not me. Never for a minute.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:45:16 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Permission

GDW GAMES wrote:
> 
> <<
> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:08:17 -0800
> From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Query for Marc and GDW

[snip my request]
 
> GDW being out of business*, Marc's permission is the only one that matters.
> 
> *it's only remaining existence is this Email address, which I keep open for
> old time's sake.
> 
> Loren Wiseman

Thanks Loren, I will take that as a yes and await for Marc's answer.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:29:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Ticket costs

In mail you write:

>>So routine use of small staterooms for middle passengers wasn't allowed
>>under most circumstances; and high and middle passengers had the same
>>size staterooms.  Then, as I said yesterday, you can carry five middle
>>passengers or four high passengers and baggage in twenty disp-tons, and
>>the life-support cost difference makes outfitting for high passengers
>>somewhat more attractive.
>
> Why is it *required* that you cant put two paying passengers to a stateroom ?

Because they are *paying* for an individual stateroom. That's likely
part of the *legal* definition of High and Middle passages. If you can
get the people in question to agree to share a stateroom, they'll want
a *big* cut in the price. 

> No, to make the passenger economics rules work we need to allow more
> classes (first, second, economy, steerage and frozen) and relate the cost
> of the ticket to both class and the distance travelled.
>
> Cargo rates also have to be related to distance, maybe with a fudge factor
> for time- or environment-sensitive cargo.

Actually, distance doesn't matter as much for jump travel as it does
for other types of travel. What matters is the *cost* of transport,
which varies in a non-linear way with distance. 

You *can* get away with charging a premium for speedier delivery. But a
jump costs much the same regardless of distance. If the destination is
4 parsecs away, a ship with jump 4 or greater can deliver it in one
jump, saving time for the shipper (and the ship!) and one cost. 

For a ship with jump 2 or three, it'll take *two* jumps, which means
it'll take about 3 times as long, and you'll have the cost of *two*
jumps, enough though they may be a bit cheaper. And for a jump 1 ship,
it takes 4 jumps, and 7 weeks (assuming the usual week in jump, week in
port)

So I see prices being more related to the number of jumps required than
the actual distance. And yes, this puts ships with lower jump numbers
at a disadvantage. But it's *reasonable* that they'd be at that sort of
disadvantage.

I expect the advantage to be *partially* compensated for by the faster
ships charging more for their longer jumps. After all the alternative
to paying for one "expensive" jump 4 is 2 jumps with a J2 or J3 ship,
or *four* jumps with a J1 ship. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:29:37 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: An idle thought...

So what are the odds that SJG might be re-releasing their old
line of Cardboard Heroes for (GURPS) Traveller? That beats the
heck out of waiting for someone to find / re-license molds for
the CT-era metal figures.

        Steven Hudson

>maybe I'll just take Starships off of your hands/

  Wow, and I'm not even giving it away!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:43:54 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Glow in the dark

At 11:32 pm 3/6/98 EST, you wrote:
>I recall reading something about the US army using instruments that
used
>tritium as a glow-in-the-dark activator ( I think inthe Bradley IFV
manuals
>GDW had), but my memory is beginning to fail.

	When I went to field training and we were handed our compasses for
nightime navigation, there were dire threats of the environmental
impact statements required if we lost one ... you guessed it, marks
were painted with tritium.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #268
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 12 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 269



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: General Quarters
Re: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: FFS/SSDS questions
Re: T4 Stats Test...
Passenger and Freight costs
Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe
Re: Chirper
Re: Ticket costs
Re: A Templar Plot...
Re: Shuttle Down
Re: Chirper
Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"
Rifts, Combat and Mains in a 3D universe
Dark Star available at Hyperbooks
Re: Glow in the dark
re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marc=A5s?= broken promises (was:Missions of  State-Review)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:45:50 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: General Quarters

At 07:38 pm 3/6/98 PST, you wrote:
>> rash-landed in the middle of the wilderness. Why do I get the
feeling that 
>> if the Shuttle came down in the middle of the Australian Outback,
there 
>> would still be people waiting for it?
>
>Don't count on it. They can't track it that well. If it goes down in
>some out of the way place, the best info control will have about the
>landing site will be the pilot's message telling them where he
intended
>to *try* for. There just plain *isn't* the sort of global radar
>coverage that'd be needed to spot the landing site in many places.
Dig
>up a copy of "Shuttle Down" by Lee Correy (G. Harry Stine) for a
>description of an unplanned emergency landing.

	I second the recommendation. IIRC correctly, *NASA* took the book
seriously, and redid their planning for shuttle aborts based exactly
on what he wrote.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:09:59 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...

>>> DOUBLE ADVENTURES
>>
>>>         D6      Night/Divine Intervention       $6

	This has got to be one of my top two favorite CT adventures.

>This is one (two?) to get.  Night of Conquest has the players
trapped in a
>large, TL4 city being invaded.  A fairly freeform adventure, the
push is
>trying to get back their ship, which can easily defeat the invaders,
>securing liberty, justice, and fat trading contracts.  Divine
Intervention
>has the characters infiltrating the grav palace of a theocratic
ruler to
>deliver a message from God.  Good sneak'n'peak, not good for those
who
>think subtlety is only firing single shots as opposed to full auto.

	I ran my brother and some of his friends through this once. They
stopped when they saw the first guard and spent about 45 minutes of
REAL time arguing about what to do next. Getting frustrated (he had
to leave in about 20 minutes), his character stepped out in the hall,
shot at the guard with the stun rifle ... and missed. By the time the
night was over, the party was all badly wounded, but the palace was
leaning way too far to one side, leaking smoke, and losing altitude.
Subtle was not their style ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:44:01 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: FFS/SSDS questions

At 12:52 am 10/6/97, you wrote:
>I have not been able to find FFS2 yet and have a couple of
questions:
>(1) do HEPLaR drives have to be powered by a fusion plant (FFS1 said
"any"
>power plant)?

	Yes.

>(2) do ships with Grav Thrusters also need Contra Grav?

	Depends. If the grav thrusters aren't enough to overcome local
gravity, or you want to be able to "float," you might consider adding
CG.

>(3) if they dont, if you decide to add both thrusters and CG can you
use
>both at the same time in an atmosphere?  In other words, do they act
>cumulatively?

	Yep.

>(4) is SSDS in any way inconsistant with FFS2?  If so, are the
deviations
>posted anywhere?

	SSDS was based on FF&S1, before FF&S2. The biggest change from FF&S1
to FF&S2 as far as spacecraft was in the area of hull design. The
configuration factors in FF&S1 were corrected, expanded, and cleaned
up. Structural value modeling was improved, and the speed regime and
streamlining rules from aircraft were applied consistently across
spacecraft, aircraft, and grav vehicles.
	FF&S2 also improves life support rules, and adds a bunch of other
game-useful stuff.

>(5) is there errata for SSDS and is it posted anywhere?


	Try http://www.spirit.net.au/~jamesd/Trav/
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 98 00:18:50 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: T4 Stats Test...

On 03/10/98 at 04:00 AM,  Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> said:

>> But, let's be serious here...I'd give 9^9^9 the full two points, wouldn't
>> you?

>I studied mathematics through advanced calculus and although much of it
>escapes me now, I have never seen a double exponent x^y^z.  So, at first
>glance, this answer loses points in my book, because it seems foolish. 

Hee! Hee!  I assure you that raising it's proper, might be more familar
with grouping...(9^9)^9, but it clearly falls under the "Please Excuse My
Dear Aunt Sally" order of operations. ;->


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 01:17:46
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Passenger and Freight costs

A
>Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:29:27 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Ticket costs
>
>In mail you write:
>
>> Why is it *required* that you cant put two paying passengers to a
stateroom ?
>
>Because they are *paying* for an individual stateroom. That's likely
>part of the *legal* definition of High and Middle passages. If you can
>get the people in question to agree to share a stateroom, they'll want
>a *big* cut in the price. 
>

Sure. No problem. Two people sharing a small stateroom is what I would call
"Coach" travel (or Third Class). Yes, it would be cheaper - at a guess,
around Cr 5-6 000 per ticket, as opposed to Cr8 000 for Middle.

Two people sharing a bunk (aka Steerage or Fourth Class) would be cheaper
yet - around Cr 3500-Cr 4000 per ticket, as opposed to Cr 8000 for a Middle
Passage.

This numbers include the grossly unreasonable (and easily evadeable, using
FFS2) cost of Cr 2000 per jump for "life support". If you reduce it to a
far more reasonable Cr 500, then you get Fourth Class costs down to
Cr2000-2500, and real stress placed on the economic viability of low berths.

Now, take a buisinessman travelling a Jump-1. He earns triple avaerage
wages on his world (i.e. Cr 60 000 a year). The saving on travelling Coach
vs Middle Passage is still about Cr 2500, or two weeks income for this
quite wealthy individual.

Incidentally, the rort you use to evade any legal impediments to offering
Third and Fouth class travel is to sign the person on "working passage" as
Second Assistant Drive Engineer (unqualified). They sleep in a shared
stateroom (legal because they are crew and *nods to Kenji* un-unionised),
and kick back the Cr 4000 to the purser, who shares it out.

>> Cargo rates also have to be related to distance, maybe with a fudge factor
>> for time- or environment-sensitive cargo.
>
>Actually, distance doesn't matter as much for jump travel as it does
>for other types of travel. What matters is the *cost* of transport,
>which varies in a non-linear way with distance. 

Under free market conditions, price will stabilise at the cheapest someone
can do it, given ruling technology, rate of interest and so on. 

The exception is if you have, say, Jump-3 technology monopolised by a
certain group - in this case, freight charges will be based on what it
costs a jump-2 ship to do it, and the owners of jump-3 starships will make
super-profits.

>
>You *can* get away with charging a premium for speedier delivery. But a
>jump costs much the same regardless of distance. If the destination is
>4 parsecs away, a ship with jump 4 or greater can deliver it in one
>jump, saving time for the shipper (and the ship!) and one cost. 
>
>For a ship with jump 2 or three, it'll take *two* jumps, which means
>it'll take about 3 times as long, and you'll have the cost of *two*
>jumps, enough though they may be a bit cheaper. And for a jump 1 ship,
>it takes 4 jumps, and 7 weeks (assuming the usual week in jump, week in
>port)

I *think* Hans crunched out the numbers, and found for long-distance trade
jump-3 or -4 was optimal.

Jump-1 freighters get relegated to jumping between adjacent planets.

A side effect of this is the economic effects of jump-1 mains are
negligible, because the vast majority of trade is carried by jump-3 and -4
ships.

>
>So I see prices being more related to the number of jumps required than
>the actual distance. And yes, this puts ships with lower jump numbers
>at a disadvantage. But it's *reasonable* that they'd be at that sort of
>disadvantage.

Certainly. The price for shipping should be based around the most effecient
solution. If you cant achieve that solution because your equipment isnt up
to it, then you are going to go broke, or accept a radical devaluation in
the book value of your capital equipment.

>
>I expect the advantage to be *partially* compensated for by the faster
>ships charging more for their longer jumps. After all the alternative
>to paying for one "expensive" jump 4 is 2 jumps with a J2 or J3 ship,
>or *four* jumps with a J1 ship. 


Hans, could you re-post that table you did ?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 23:27:46 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

Andrew Smith wrote:

First off Andrew, I'm not picking a fight, just making comments as I see
them. OK

> What fudges? What compromises? The only one I considered important was
> losing consistency with the 'geographical' aspects of the Traveller canon.

that is a fudge in my book, and to fit MTU I'll have to make similar
fudges. Regina/Regina may end up a mere J-15 away from Terra/Sol and my
renewed Darryen J-18 (or will that be 17 - Kenji help me out) drives
will make it in a week. 

> And now my campaign setting seems even more 'realistic' than it did. A fair trade.

that's great and what I would expect if I spent a lot of time doing it. 
At minimum, I think one would have a thought that it might make it
better. 

> It really depends how you define 'border'. Certainly even in 2D space, the
> border can not possibly be a fortified, bolded hex-edge line with units..... etc [rest snipped]

Very true, and you were only talking 1 hex, which has potentially 6
sides to be attacked from, albeit limited by the enemy J factor and
surrounding star/world location. A one front assault may be your way,
but if I was so inclined, I think I may feign a frontal attack and kick
... from another direction using as much element of surprise as I could
muster. I hate losing even to greater odds so am most careful who I pick
fights with.  

> A 3D setting merely increases the complexity of the problem, rather than
> making it impossible. OK, so you have more border to defend (being
> proportional to the square of your radius, rather than to the first power).

I agree again, but if your reference is to circumference, then you are
still in 2D. You have to be concerned for the total area surrounding
the  sphereical volume. Here again the angle of your view to the horizon
throughout 360 dg (less any overlap) will determine how many
observation  points you will require to watch all of the surrounding
space.
 
> But unless your enemy is significantly bigger than you are (in which case
> you should really avoid a war with them anyway), they are going to be
> restricted in the number of different ways they can come at you. If their
> supply lines get too long, you can cut them off at the roots.

You brute you. It sounds as if you only pick on the little guy. Never
understimate your enemy. And if they are larger than you, you would have
to be able to get out of the hex, to be able to get behind, to be able
to cut the lines, all without being noticed ??? In 3D this may be
possible, but in 2D nigh (near) impossible as I said in my post.
 
I say again, it will depend on the DM and his gaming style. I like what
I have seen, will cheerfully recommend it to any who are interested, and
will continue to fudge MTU into my 3D universe on whatever terms I deem
are right. So can you.

Jim
Have fun in 3D

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 03:11:58 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Chirper

> >It still does imply (as lots of other things do) that there's much less
> >pure research-for-research's sake in the third Imperium - there's no
money
> >in calculating genetic divergence between ape species, but people do it
> >anyway.
> 
> Remember the 3I is dominated by Vilani.

Is it really, though?

I have some problems with this, as it's usually used as a handwave to
justify the Imperium sticking to a single TL for centuries while Terra blew
through a couple of them in a matter of about a century.  Note, I'm not
saying that this is what you're doing, just saying that this is part of the
idea that bugs me.

Anyway, in the Aliens draft, it states that about 50% of all humans in the
Imperium are from various minor human races, but it doesn't give the
breakdown on Vilani vs. Solomani, but the Vilani obviously have far greater
numbers.  But, in the span of time since the fall of the First Imperium, a
heck of alot can change.  Basically, if you're playing as of the start of
the Third Imperium, you've got over 2000 years since the Ziru Sirka fell. 
Furthermore, if you're playing as of the late Imperium, then you have 3300
years since the Vilani fell.  In addition, you've had the Long Night, which
served to further distance the Vilani descendants from their original way
of thinking.

It is stated in the entry under the Vilani ("Library Data: N-Z") that
Vilani is now more of a "cultural" labelling given to those who still
retain some of the old ways...

After all, the Solomani, though small in number, have influenced the
Imperium greatly.  The dating system and the language are both Terran in
origin...

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 03:30:19 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Ticket costs

Hello Len,

> 
> Actually, distance doesn't matter as much for jump travel as it does
> for other types of travel. What matters is the *cost* of transport,
> which varies in a non-linear way with distance. 

We seem to agree here...
 
> You *can* get away with charging a premium for speedier delivery. But a
> jump costs much the same regardless of distance. If the destination is
> 4 parsecs away, a ship with jump 4 or greater can deliver it in one
> jump, saving time for the shipper (and the ship!) and one cost. 

However, I disagree with the above statement.  If you use a jump 4 engine
in a ship, and a jump 2 engine in the same ship, it will still get you to
the Jump 2 desitination.  However, the cost of the engines along with the
volume they take up, is not the same as the Jump 2.  As a consequence, to
my way of thinking, this makes the jump more expensive.  To wit, the
revenue generating volume is diminished.  As a result, it drives up the
cost per cubic meter - in direct contradiction to your statement that the
jump costs the same regardless of distance.

> For a ship with jump 2 or three, it'll take *two* jumps, which means
> it'll take about 3 times as long, and you'll have the cost of *two*
> jumps, enough though they may be a bit cheaper. And for a jump 1 ship,
> it takes 4 jumps, and 7 weeks (assuming the usual week in jump, week in
> port)
> 
> So I see prices being more related to the number of jumps required than
> the actual distance. And yes, this puts ships with lower jump numbers
> at a disadvantage. But it's *reasonable* that they'd be at that sort of
> disadvantage.

By your example, if I understand correctly, that if you have two aircraft,
one designed to fly from San Fransisco to New York in one hop, and the
other one that needs to land at Chicago, refuel, and fly to New York -
that commercial traffic would be expected to charge the exact same price
for air fare regardless of either plane?  This despite the fact that more
of the faster plane's internal volume is aviation fuel tanks, larger wing
structure etc?  This despite the fact that the faster plane can carry
fewer passengers than the slower version?

  I strongly disagree with your assessment.  Again, I offer you the gentle
challenge to create three ships, a Jump 1 ship, a jump 2 ship, and a Jump
3 ship.  Presume that you could only raise 20% of the down payment as per
the normal financing rules of TRAVELLER.  From there, prove that the ships
can survive in most "normal" areas of the Traveller imperium, rather than
specialized financially rich "niche" markets.  Ships must be the same
sized, and have the same equipment as each other but for the differing
jump engine, energy plant, and fuel tankage requirements.  I think even
you would have to admit it cannot be done.

  About the only way a faster ship, with the more volume intensive
requirements can survive in an Imperium's markets is by charging by
distance with an additional "speed bonus" added on.  The bonus is
essential in order to make the slower jump-1 ships economically viable for
the new "distance" valued commerce rather than time valued commerce...

      Hal

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 23:44:56 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: A Templar Plot...

Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote

> And you further realize, of course, that there are two TMLs?

You only get two TML's ?  I get all four of them.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 00:01:25 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Shuttle Down

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote

> Back when they still planned to fly some missions from Vandenburg AFB
> (only launch site we have that can get decent payloads into polar
> orbits) one of the emergency landing sites was *Easter Island*!

Obviously the giant sttone heads were psionically controlling NASA. 
They were going to use their weather control to make Vandenburg
unavailable & force a landing at Easter Island.  Then they were going to
get on the shuttle & take off !

Little known fact, the Easter Island statues secretly take psionic
control of everyone who visits there & use them as part of their plot :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:58:34 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Chirper

At 03:11 AM 12/03/98 -0500, Chris wrote:

>> Remember the 3I is dominated by Vilani.
>
>Is it really, though?
>
>I have some problems with this, as it's usually used as a handwave to
>justify the Imperium sticking to a single TL for centuries while Terra blew
>through a couple of them in a matter of about a century.  Note, I'm not
>saying that this is what you're doing, just saying that this is part of the
>idea that bugs me.

I reckon that you've got to scratch that by the late 3I, because otherwise
it's impossible to justify the TL advantage the 3I has over all its
neighbours. If the 3I was so Vilani in its outlook they wouldn't have kept
their TL advantage after the Solomani Rim War. Mind you IM(heretical)O it's
quite hard to justify anyway.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:45:55 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: GEN-CONs "Calculate Your UPP"

On 6 Mar 1998, Robert Eaglestone wrote:

> PSIONICS
> Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or back),
> whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of right answers.
> 
> ---
> 
> Shouldn't this rather be something like:
> 
> PSI = abs(number correct - number incorrect) ?

Seems as if that would lead to very high PSI Levels by predicting always
the wrong answer ... But you're right, the natural probabilities have to
be taken out.

But I tend to use the Zener Cards for Telepathy and Clairvoyance ... Dice
and coins are good for Telekinetics. How do you test Awareness - holding
the breath for longer than two minutes?

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:50:12 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Rifts, Combat and Mains in a 3D universe

>>*No Rifts.
>Doesn't getting around depend on the 3rd demension of the rift?
    Unless you are going to have areas that you arbitrarily put a density
of 0 to it doesn't matter. It depends on how much handwaving you want to
do. For me, I just came up with a continuous, random 3D density function
with various peaks and troughs. Even at a low density (3%) there were still
enough stars that a jump-2 ship could make it through. If you lower it to
1% you can still get through with jump-3.
    If you want Traveller like rifts you just have to say "there are no
stars in the following areas" and define fairly long, high, and moderately
deep areas. It ends up looking quite arbitrary (not that the rifts in
Traveller don't look arbitrary! it just sits better in 2D).
    But don't take my word for it, try it yourself.

>It raises the number of worlds you have to defend.
It _squares_ the number of worlds you have to defend. Big difference. It
gets worse.
    Imagine a battle between land and sea creatures. The creatures of the
land march up and set a picket up along the shoreline. The creatures of the
sea march up and try for a breakthrough, or to establish a beachhead. In
this sort of area the defenders fall slightly back to create a crescent.
This increases the % of them ships to the enemy (I'm in the SCA, we do this
in bridge battles with foot soldiers). If the sea creatures are stronger
than the increased defensive force they can break through and hold a bit.
Now they have a segment that they hold but have to defend on three sides.
Heavy going. They have to be 3 times as powerful as their enemy to keep it.
So they try for another beach-head nearby. If they succeed they now
surround the enemy on three sides and can, hopefully close the gap and gain
defenable territory.
  Now, change this to a battle between sea creatures and _air_ creatures.
The border is not the shoreline, but rather the whole surface. True there
is a lot of sea and each bit of the surface has a lot of deep beneath it
that can bubble up troops in support.  All seems the same. But go through a
beachhead scenario as above. When the sea creatures mount their offensive
the air creatures back off to create a dome, the 3D equivalent of a
crescent. But, a dome creates a higher % of attackers to defenders than a
crescent because of 3D mathematics. It will be much harder for the sea
creatures to create a break through. But, say they are really good and do
so. Now they have their little bubble they have captured. But, they are
surrounded on 5 sides, not 3. They have to be _five_ times as powerful as
their enemy to keep it. It gets worse. In the 2D case in order to
consolidate their gain they only had to create a 2nd beachhead and join it.
In the 3D case they must create an addition 3 beachheads (the corners of a
square) and join them all to create defensible territory.
    Now the above though experiment is just done using cubes. If you used
triangles you would get slightly better odds, for true odds you have to
move to spheres. But the math gets too torturous for a Thursday morning and
the end result is the same. Warfare in 3D is MUCH different than in 2D.
    Imperial wise you can pretty much throw away the existing background
for the frontier border wards. Sure you can have the 1st through 5th
frontier war, but none of the material relating to troop movements, etc,
will make sense.

>>*No sector mains.
>If you expanded the vertical, and just moved
>the existing stars over the new dimension, the number of
>jump 1 routes would decrease.
You would be flooring your density to almost zero. A very dense area in
Traveller has 50% of the hexes filled. Dragging the same number of stars
over 10 parsecs vertically brings this down to 5%, close to the traveller
density for rift (3%?). That's majority playing with the background. I
thought you wanted to avoid that. In any event, traveller is a bit high in
density compared to the real world, but this would be putting way below the
density in the real world. ChView, 3D star viewing program has the latest
released database of stars in it (http://members.nova.org/~sol/chview,
right next to CORE). The most complete data is in the 25LY sphere around
Earth, with 214 stars. It is too early in the morning for me to work out
the average number of stars per cubic parsec that equates to, but someone
out there will work it out. I strongly suspect it is way higher than 5%
which is what your _dense_ areas of the Imperium will become if you do
this.
  In any event, that will reduce _all_ jump routes. Effectively the
Imperium, which is dependant on trade, will fall about because no one can
get anywhere with out  a jump 6 ship. You lose your effective background
again. If you try to correct this by upping the jump distance, you get back
to the position of no sector mains, which is what you set out to get rid
of.

  I have run two 3D campaigns with non-technical players. The first one I
mentioned before. It was Traveller in 3D, using SYSGEN. Roughly the same
densities, linear jump distances. The background was only implemented on
the ground level. I.e. the grav-car and gauss rifle level. The Imperium, in
this setting was this huge, vast empire. No one was really sure how large
it was. The frontier was at least a year from the core and that is one HELL
of a volume. There was another empire (The Holy Terran Confederacy, vaguely
like the Solomani). The border between the two was rather nebulous and
there were frequent minor skirmishes. It was more that in the border region
there was a density function on both sides as they diffused into each
other.
  The second campaign was Bughunters, set in the Real Universe using ChView
and its near-earth database of stars. But starships in Bughunters aren't
jump based, they just move through interstellar space like normal space. If
you want to go further, you just bring more provisions and take longer.
Different engines determine speed. This was rather interesting as they were
playing with real stars in real analog 3D (sysgen was still just cubes).
    Anyway, I suggest that you have to give in on your ideals some respect.
Either only make vague use of standard background, or constrain your 3D to
be almost 2D.
    On the other hand, if your desire for 3D is only because there is no
logical explanation for why space is 2D you can always just explain that.
The best reason I've herd on the list in the past 5 years is the one that
says that _jumpspace_ is 2D. The maps we see are not of real space, but
rather of jump space. These stars are really scattered over 3 dimensions
but there is no point mapping it that way because no one travels through
real space interstellar wise.
    If you accept this logic, there are a number of interesting plot
devices you can use. For example, there might be a binary star system where
the two stars are only a few weeks apart at _maneuver_ 6, but are many many
jumps away at _jump_ 6. This gives you a "wormhole" like affect. It would
introduce interesting twists to your communication net. Such places would
be rather rare (to maintain the normal background) but interesting.

    Cheers,
                 Jo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:01:47 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Dark Star available at Hyperbooks

Dark Star is now available from Hyperbooks.com ... online!

Cost is a modest $5 for downloading the PDF file.

Issues #1 and #2 are available ... and issue #3 is in preparation (in the
copious free time I have left after teaching during the day and working on no
less than four other RPG projects at night ... <gah>)

What is Dark Star?

It is a Traveller Fanzine and includes all sorts of interesting stuff -- as a
number of people on this list can confirm.

There should be a page including contents info at Hyperbooks "real soon now" ...
but if you don't see it listed, just email Terry and he'll get back to you.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
YES! Dark Star is now available from Hyperbooks.com!
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:37:23 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Glow in the dark

This is a little late, as I have been some time absti-net the last week.
But for whoever still is interested in some physical chemistry -

There are two mechanisms that produce a glow-light from special colors:
Phosphorescence and Fluorescence.

Fluorescence is the effect of substances taking light (storing it with the
electrons, as Loren wrote correctly) and emitting it again after chenging
the frequencies via some internal energy conversion. As this happens very
fast, it is only visible when the substance is under light. There is a
special case of UV fluorescence which means that UV light is absorbed and
transformed into visible light. They seem to glow in the dark because our
eyes cannot see all the light, only the fluoresced. You know these paint 
as 'neon inks' sometimes used at discos. The effect of white clothes
glowing blue in this light also is caused by this.

But now to the second effect, phosphorescence. It works quite like the
first one, but on a larger time scale, i.e. the light is emitted more
slowly, even if the outer light source is removed. This makes a poor light
yield, so there is not even enough light to see any other things than the
painted ones. 

Don't confuse this with chemoluminescence, an other mechanism, which is
based in a chemical reaction that produces light instead of heat - refer
to the luciferin and luciferase of fireflies.

I do not know practical examples by now, but if someone is interested, I
could research.

<chemistry lesson off>

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:26:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marc=A5s?= broken promises (was:Missions of  State-Review)

"Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de> wrote:

>This makes me sad..
>Really does. I am sure everybody remembers when Marc told us all on ther
>list that no more products were going to be produced by IG without him
>reading them and checking them first. Apparently, he didnt see Missions
>of State either. Now, i must say i didnt buy the book and probably
>wont now i read the review, as i feel that this poor job in
>Canon-Research shouldnt be rewarded. However i am disappointed that
>things like these still happen despite Marcs promise that they wont.
>Was the Writers List consulted about this book? I think not.

I may be wrong, but I think that submission of this book will have predated
the Writer's Lists' existance. Remember it is one of the books that was
stuck in Canada over Christmas, and the Writers List came online
end-November 97.

I agree that it would have been nice to have had it proof read by someone
who knows Traveller. <terrible feeling of deja vu>

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #269
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 12 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 270



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Andy's back
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Starship expenses
Re: Starship expenses
Re: What Grey Thing?
Re: Anti-Psi
Re: Passenger and Freight costs
Shuttle Down
Passenger and Freight Costs
Re: Glow in the dark
roger sanger
Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth
Re: An Idle Thought
Trimkhana-Brilliance Liner
Cardboard Heros
Re: Dark Star available at Hyperbooks
Re: IMTU Pronunciations
Re: Andy's back
Re: Rifts, Combat and Mains in a 3D universe
Re: Starship expenses

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:23:04 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

This is not about Traveller but I thought the list might  find it
interesting.  Check out
http://europe.cnn.com/TECH/space/9803/11/asteroid/index.html

Summary:

Asteroid found on near miss course with  Earth.  Designated  1997
XF11, it should pass  just  under  30,000  miles  from  Earth  on
October 26, 2028.  However, the estimate has a margin of error of
more than 180,000 miles!  The chance of an  actual  collision  is
small, but one is not entirely  out  of  the  question.

An asteroid the size of 1997 XF11 colliding  with  the  Earth  at
more than 17,000 miles an hour would explode with  an  energy  of
about 320,000 megatons of dynamite.  That equals almost 2 million
Hiroshima-sized atomic bombs.

Such an asteroid hitting the ocean  would  create  a  tidal  wave
hundreds of feet high, causing extreme flooding  along  thousands
of miles of coastline.  Where cities stood, there would  be  only
mudflats.

If it struck land it would blast a crater 20 miles across and  so
clog the sky with dust and vapor that the sun would  be  darkened
for weeks, if not months.



Regards PLST
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:10:34 +0000
From: "Andy Slack" <andyslack@unn.unisys.com>
Subject: Andy's back

I'm back online - as large as life, and twice as disgusting!

Andy Slack

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:19:58 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:

> This is not about Traveller but I thought the list might  find it
> interesting.  Check out
> http://europe.cnn.com/TECH/space/9803/11/asteroid/index.html
> 
> Summary:
> 
> Asteroid found on near miss course with  Earth.  Designated  1997
> XF11, it should pass  just  under  30,000  miles  from  Earth  on
> October 26, 2028.  However, the estimate has a margin of error of
> more than 180,000 miles!  The chance of an  actual  collision  is
> small, but one is not entirely  out  of  the  question.
> 

Just remeber that this is estimated from a 88-days arc and further
observations are critical. There will be a close encounter, not as close
as in 2028, with the asteroid in 2002, and at this time many telescopes
around the world will be pointing towards it. This should give us a good
estimate for its close approach, and should it come to close there will be
plenty of time for countermeasures.

> Regards PLST

Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somewhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:58:18 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

What was the problem with my idea/handwave of "most of the 1 KCr a week
being medical/accident/kidnapping insurance"?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:02:03 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

>Dom Reynolds proposes a long and ingenious rigmarole about how regulations
>require the use and frequent replacement of a vacc suit per passenger and
>crew.
>
>Others have proposed other ways to inflate the costs of consumables spent on
>a starship jump. But all this is besides the point. There's no question that
>it is _possible_ to spend the equivalent of S$2000/week on the ingredients
>for food alone.

If the high prices are due to mandatory insurance for
accident/medical/pirates/kidnapping/allergies whatever and that you're
required to have them if you want to use the Imperium wide High/Mid/Low
passage system then traders that don't pay them will perhaps pay 100 Cr a
week instead (10 Cr / week for LowPssg) but have a real hard time finding
passengers.

I don't really see what is wrong with this idea.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:05:04 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

>Wasn't there some reference to a march Droyne world (red-zone) being blockaded
>by battleships? Makes one wonder what a non-starflight world full of flying
>lizards has done to require major fleet combatants overhead...
>
>Bruce

Andory and Candor (?) in Five Sisters blockaded by a Tigresse no less!!!


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:09:26 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Anti-Psi

>>So does this mean that there is such a thing as negative ability?
>
>I have read that some Psi researchers postulate such negative abilities. It is
>an explanation for why the results go _way_ down if a skeptic (someone who
>doeas not believe in psi abilities) is involved in the testing.

Is this the same force that seem to deflect UFOs away from nonbelievers?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:32:09 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Passenger and Freight costs

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> writes:

>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

>>>Why is it *required* that you cant put two paying passengers to a
>>>stateroom ?

>>Because they are *paying* for an individual stateroom.

No they're not. Those taking jump-2 trips are paying slighly more than the
cost of an individual stateroom, those travelling jump-1 is paying far too
much, those travelling jump-3 is paying a bit too little and those
travelling by higher jumps are paying far too little.

>[...]
>This numbers include the grossly unreasonable (and easily evadeable, using
>FFS2) cost of Cr 2000 per jump for "life support". If you reduce it to a
>far more reasonable Cr 500, then you get Fourth Class costs down to
>Cr2000-2500, and real stress placed on the economic viability of low berths.

Especially since the true cost of a Low Berth is closer to Cr1500 and that
"Fast Berth" costs only slightly more than Low Berth and is completely
safe...
 
>I *think* Hans crunched out the numbers, and found for long-distance trade
>jump-3 or -4 was optimal.

Jump-3 is best followed by jump-2 (_provided_ the route does not require
the ship to jump short at any time) with jump-4 almost as cheap.

>[...]
>
>Hans, could you re-post that table you did ?

Sure. I still haven't taken the time to fill out the missing prices, but
it will give you the idea.

REGULAR PASSENGER LINER OR FREIGHTER TRAVELLING FROM SURFACE TO SURFACE (35
jumps per year):
             
           Steerage    Low    Economy    Mid     High    1 dT of  1 dT per
           Passage   Passage  Passage  Passage  Passage  freight   parsec*
Jump-1:     1,200     1,400    2,800    4,800    6,200      840      840
Jump-2:     1,500     1,800    3,800    6,600    8,400    1,170      585
Jump-3:     2,100     2,200    5,100    9,000   11,400    1,660      555
Jump-4:                                13,400             2,400      600
Jump-5:                                19,800             3,660      735
Jump-6:                                35,000             6,370    1,065

*Assuming the route is an exact multiple of the jump rating.

Note 1: The prices above was arrived at by designing a number of 600 T ships
(with QSDS1.5) each dedicated to one kind of passengers, ie. a ship with 1 T
of cargo space per passenger and 1 steward per 8 passengers for High
Passengers, another ship with negligible cargo space and 1 steward per 50
passengers for Middle Passengers, a ship with small staterooms for Economy
Passengers, a ship with Low Berths and 1 medic per 20 berths for Low
Passengers, and a ship with bunks only for Steerage Passengers, plus a ship
with cargo hold only for freight. In all cases, except the ships for Steerage
passengers, the design included emergency medical low berths enough to
accomodate a full complement of crew and passengers.

Note 2: I've used my own rules for life support costs and introduced a
"misjump insurance" based on the value of the ship to compensate. As a
result passenger rates are a bit lower and freight rates a bit higher
than official rules would get you.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:43:20 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Shuttle Down

David Golden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
	I second the recommendation. IIRC correctly, *NASA* took the book
seriously, and redid their planning for shuttle aborts based exactly
on what he wrote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I heard one change -  G Harry Stine noticed that if the shuttle came down
outside the US it could run into legal difficulties. NASA officials read the
book, and now every space shuttle flies with a full cargo manifest on board.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:58:07 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Passenger and Freight Costs

Ian or Katts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I *think* Hans crunched out the numbers, and found for long-distance trade
jump-3 or -4 was optimal.

Jump-1 freighters get relegated to jumping between adjacent planets.

A side effect of this is the economic effects of jump-1 mains are
negligible, because the vast majority of trade is carried by jump-3 and -4
ships.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What if a large number of the Jump-1 ships have been completely paid off?
Remember that in TNE, many starships over a century old are still running
*without* access to regular and proper maintenance. If the lost-in-service rate
was low enough for all those Free and Far Traders out there (not to mention
the aging but reliable jump-1 superfreighters) then you might have some
economic viability for low-jump ships. 

Let's say you're moving lanthanum ore from a low-pop planet to a high-pop
planet. The mines can produce one shipload of ore a week. You have 
enough jump-1 bulk freighters on your paid-off list to have a ship show up
at the mines once a week, and move the lanthanum along a jump-1 main
to the high-pop planet. Once you have the pipeline started, you will have a 
cargo arrive at the high-pop world once a week. Yes, you could do it with
half (or less) as many high-jump freighters, but as long as the item isn't
perishable or time-sensitive these slowpokes will be much cheaper.
It would also be less attractive to pirates - they might grab a jump-3 ship
for the drives, would they bother with a jump-1 ship? Not to mention trade
route reliability - lose one of two slow ships, your trade slows down. Lose one
of one fast ships, your trade _stops_.

There's a reason coal mines ship their product by train and freighter instead
of by next-day air.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:20:15 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Glow in the dark

On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, David J. Golden wrote:
 
> 	When I went to field training and we were handed our compasses for
> nightime navigation, there were dire threats of the environmental
> impact statements required if we lost one ... you guessed it, marks
> were painted with tritium.

Just a silly question, but if the marks were painted with tritium...How
did you get  them to stay put? (ducking)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:53:09 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: roger sanger

Does anyone have a more recent e-mail address for Roger Sanger of DGP fame?

My last contact with him was on:
rodge@cyberspace.com

which is bouncing now.

Any info gratefully appreciated.

tc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:10:49 -0700
From: "Christopher E. Webb" <cwebb@ctos.com>
Subject: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth

Okay, so it teeters on the edge of a TML taboo...

Today's Rocky Mountain News, on page 2, has an article from a NY Times
writer discussing an asteroid (1997 XF11) that will probably pass REALLY
close to the earth on Thursday, Oct 26, 2028.  According to the article,
the rock is one mile in diameter (in estimate).  It was discovered in early
December by James Scotti at Kitt Peak.  Refinements of its orbit done
around 3-4 March refined the proximity of its encounter to 30000.  Of
course, the scientists involved stress that these are all estimates right
now, that the asteroid may pass well outside the Moon's orbit, or it could
hit Earth.

I suppose relating it to Traveller isn't a good idea, since the thread has
been hashed out repeatedly.

Christopher Webb
cwebb@ctos.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:10:44 +0000
From: "Paul Rocchi" <paul_rocchi@sns.ca>
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:29:37 -0800
> From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
> Subject: An idle thought...
> 
> So what are the odds that SJG might be re-releasing their old
> line of Cardboard Heroes for (GURPS) Traveller? That beats the
> heck out of waiting for someone to find / re-license molds for
> the CT-era metal figures.

Very poor.  SJG's Cardboard Heroes, although a neat product, are too 
expensive to produce for the profit generated.  I'm sure Loren would 
be able to tell you the same.  One thing that is under consideration 
is placng on the SJG website files of cardboard hero artwork, 
collected in 8"x11" sheets. Download, print to cardstock, and cut 
out.  Perhaps we can ask Loren to push for this?

Paul Rocchi
SJG MiB

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:27:31 -0600
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Trimkhana-Brilliance Liner

 ------------------------------------------------------
 Tukera Lines "Trimkhana-Brilliance" Type RD Drop Liner  [QSDS 1.5, Hulls]
 ------------------------------------------------------
 
Tons:  800 Std (Cyl. S)   Volume:     11200 m^3       Price: MCr 323.74
Crew:   24                Hi/Mid Psg: 48/72           Low:   80
Cargo:  48                Controls:   Std. Civilian   TL:    13

8 Size                       4 Jump Drive    (80 Std/Pc fuel)
                             2 Maneuver      (Thrusters, 406 MW)
4x CivSockets                2 Power Plant   (Fusion, 800 MW)
                             8.5 Fuel (Scoop 320)
                             A2 P3 J0
                             Advanced Commo Suite
                             10 Armor, 16 Structure
                             
Crew Detail: 4 Engineers, 2 Electronics, 2 Maneuver, 1 Command 
             6 Medical, 8 Stewards, 1 "Line Representative"
             
Facilities: 1x Sickbay.  

The figures above do not include the 320-ton LHyd drop tankage.  If
drop tanks aren't released, her displacement is 1120 tons LHyd (15680
cubic meters), and she is size 9, jump-2 (112 Std/Pc fuel), 1G maneuver, 
and 1.4 power plant.  Jump-3 or higher requires dropping the tankage, 
and the ship may not jump again until the drop tanks are replaced.  
Estimated price of the drop tankage is MCr 0.33 (QSDS has no drop tank 
rules; estimate based on _High Guard_.)

 ----------------------------------------------
 
The use of drop tanks for jump fuel was not possible for commercial 
vessels until late in the 1080s.  Prior to that, ships entering jump
were forced to discharge their jump capacitors immediately, or risk 
catastrophic spontaneous discharge similar to black globe overload.
The brief period of safety before discharge and jump entrance were
forced didn't allow the ejected tankage to reach enough distance for
the ship to avoid misjump.

Fundamental breakthroughs in long-duration jump capacitor technology
were made in conjunction with Imperial black globe research.  After
the Fourth Frontier War, this technology was declassified and began
to see use in commercial construction at tech levels as low as 13.

Commercial vehicles using drop tanks could be built with smaller and
cheaper jump drives, as those ships did not need to haul empty fuel
tankage through jumpspace.  Tukera Lines immediately saw the economic
advantages possible on their established core routes, and their first
drop tank equipped ships began entering service in the early 1090s.
These ships must operate in well-developed regions due to their need
for drop tank replacement after jumps of over two parsecs.

The "Trimkhana-Brilliance" and her sister ships exemplify the high
capacity passenger liners Tukera operates along the xboat routes.
Up to 200 passengers and 24 crew can be carried in normal operation,
allowing transport of as many as 5000 passengers per year.  In quiet
regions, the ship may be assigned a "line representative".  This is
an extra crew slot filled by Tukera to provide special expertise for
the captain or to be used as a training position for new employees. 

Normally, the ship's four socket weapon mounts are installed with
observation bubbles for the recreational use of the passengers.  In 
potentially hazardous areas, they may be replaced with defensive 
armament.  In that case the line representative is replaced with a 
second Command officer, and four gunners are assigned in place of 
middle passengers.  The necessary control equipment is pre-installed 
on the ship's bridge.

The "Trimkhana-Brilliance" herself was lost in early 1106 due to a
defective drop tank manufactured by General Products.  She was in the
process of making a three-parsec jump from Regina/Regina to Roup/Regina
with a nearly full load of passengers, when the release mechanism and
emergency explosive bolts on her port inboard tank failed to operate.  
Despite frantic efforts by the crew, they were unable to eject the tank 
before catastrophic failure of the jump capacitors.  One crewmember and 
three passengers out of a complement of 221 survived the explosion.  In
the aftermath, Tukera suspended all high-capacity passenger service to
the Regina subsector until after the Fifth Frontier War.  Service did
continue in the interior, using drop tanks not manufactured by General.

 ----------------------------------------------
 
Designer's notes.

If you reverse-engineer the ship, you may find it doesn't quite add up.
I built it giving all passengers, the Command officer, and the line
representative large staterooms, the rest of the crew small staterooms, 
and by making the assumption that low berths displace 0.5 tons, not 1 ton 
as in QSDS.  If you want strict adherence to QSDS, you get equivalent 
results if the low berths displace one ton and twenty middle passengers
are stuck with small staterooms.  Only enough cargo space is provided 
for high passenger baggage space.

The ship has a full-size bridge, not a flight deck, as would be required
when operating with two Command crew.  All that's required to arm the 
liner is the installation of turret sockets; gunner workstations are in 
place.  The large jump drive's power requirement means that 218.6 MW are
available for weaponry. 

Economic analysis follows.  It seems doubtful that players could scrape
up enough passengers to keep this ship full, but Tukera Lines is a major
shipping line (and an NPC) and isn't necessarily bound by the same rules
as a player's tramp freighter.  The somewhat unfair assumption was made
that Tukera can provide drop liners with refined fuel at unrefined cost
by placing a ground-based fuel refinery with the drop tank refurbishment 
facility; these costs aren't included, but are probably minor.  (Another
alternative is to reduce middle passengers by two and let the ship have
a 3 ton per hour refinery, but the first arrangement seems more likely.)

Down Payment:   kCr 64748

Annual Operating Costs (25 jump-4 connections, full load)
Ship Payments:  kCr 16187   (1/20 ship price)
Crew LS:        kCr  1200   (25 trips)
Crew Salaries:  kCr   984   (12 months, kCr 82/mo. est.)
Unref. Fuel:    kCr   800   (100 parsecs traversed)
Annual Maint.:  kCr   323.7
Berthing:       kCr     2.5 (25 planetfalls)
LS, 3000 pass.  kCr  6000  
LS, 2000 low.   kCr   200
                -----------
                kCr 25697.2

Annual Revenue (25 jump-4 connections, full load)
1200 High Passengers:    kCr 12000
1800 Middle Passengers:  kCr 14400
2000 Low Passengers:     kCr  2000
                         ---------
                         kCr 28400
                         
Annual Profit (25 jump-4 connections, full load):  kCr 2702.8
Annual Return on down payment: 4.17 %
  (does not include capital value of ship)

This design was inspired by a story in the Traveller News Service column
that appeared in issues of the _Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society_ 
magazine, and some information above is based on and derived from that 
article.

  -- Steve Bonneville
  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:26:27 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Cardboard Heros

>So what are the odds that SJG might be re-releasing their old
>line of Cardboard Heroes for (GURPS) Traveller? That beats the
>heck out of waiting for someone to find / re-license molds for
>the CT-era metal figures.

I'd pay for some 25mm heros. (I used to use 15mm, but most of my figure
collection is now 25mm.)

Anyone out there artistic?  I have (relatively) cheap access to colour
xeroxing, as well as decent access to some killer graphics software, but
my artistic skills are virtually zero.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:42:03 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Dark Star available at Hyperbooks

aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor) writes:
>Dark Star is now available from Hyperbooks.com ... online!
>
>Cost is a modest $5 for downloading the PDF file.
>
>Issues #1 and #2 are available ... and issue #3 is in preparation (in the
>copious free time I have left after teaching during the day and working
>on no
>less than four other RPG projects at night ... <gah>)
>

Whatever you think of Phil's Traveller opinions (and I know some of you
violently disagree with them), his magazine is definately worth this price
(assuming that the downloaded version can be printed).  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:55:39 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: IMTU Pronunciations

Someone wrote:
> Zhodani: zho + d-ah-n' + ee
> Zhodane: zho' + dane (as in Danish)

Not sure I agree with these ...

According  to  the  CT  Zhodani  alien  module:  "Zhodani"  is  a
Galanglic  word  meaning  humans   from   Zhdant   (the   Zhodani
homeworld).  It is composed  of  a  contraction  of  the  Zhodani
"Zhdant" and the Galanglic "-ani" suffix.  The "-ani"  suffix  is
"ah-n' + ee",  but  the  "Zhod"  root   should   follow   Zhodani
pronounciation rules.  "Zh" is pronounced  as  "s"  is  "measure"
(short "sh" sound),  thus  "Zho"  is  pronounced  not  "zoe"  but
"show".  The "a" in "Zhdant"  is  pronounced  like  the  "oc"  in
"lock" ... thus  "Zhdant"  is  pronounced  "sh-don-t".  Therefore
"Zhodani" should be  pronounced  "show darn + ee"  (or  sometimes
"show don + ee").   Zhdant  is  sometimes  written  "Zhodane"  in
Galanglic texts and therefore would be pronounced "show dane".

(I believe this is cannon, but my phonetic use of "-",  "'",  and
"+" is probably wrong.  Read what I mean, not what I say.)


Regards PLST
"The sky is falling, the sky is falling ... 26 October 2028"
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:34:33 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Andy's back

> I'm back online - as large as life, and twice as disgusting!
> 
> Andy Slack

I never noticed it before when you were around before...  Are you by chance
the same Andy Slack who wrote the excellent "Backdrop of Stars" in White
Dwarf?

If so, I'd like to (belatedly) thank you for one of the most useful
magazine articles on Traveller.  :^)

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:29:04 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Rifts, Combat and Mains in a 3D universe

At 9:50 AM +0000 3/12/98, Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:
>    If you want Traveller like rifts you just have to say "there are no
>stars in the following areas" and define fairly long, high, and moderately
>deep areas.

What is the density in current Traveller rifts?  In the end
mandating near zero density may not be the best possible
solution, but I see it is more realistic than a 2D Galaxy.

>>It raises the number of worlds you have to defend.
>It _squares_ the number of worlds you have to defend. Big difference. It
>gets worse.

Acutally, the difference in what we are talking about
is that you are talking about a sphere.  Since the
Imperium is going to need to be bounded on top and
bottom, I am talking about essetially adding in new layers
bordering on the edge, all of which have the same %age
of border worlds, so the the total %age of border worlds
stays the same.  Since the Imperium is bound top and bottom,
they don't have any enemies in that direction.

That is, as far as I can see, the main problem.  You
can't move the Imerpiums neighbors into sphere without
changing how they border each other and if you leave the
top and the bottom without neighbors, but with systems,
then you have the problem of why they didn't expand
in that direction.  Therefore you need some reason that
the Imperium sits in a disk of available systems that
is of the same general size, or less, as the Imperium.
If you invoke high metalicity stars, this is about a
100 parsec disk.

>>>*No sector mains.
>>If you expanded the vertical, and just moved
>>the existing stars over the new dimension, the number of
>>jump 1 routes would decrease.

>You would be flooring your density to almost zero. A very dense area in
>Traveller has 50% of the hexes filled. Dragging the same number of stars
>over 10 parsecs vertically brings this down to 5%, close to the traveller
>density for rift (3%?). That's majority playing with the background. I
>thought you wanted to avoid that.

I'm not sure that the background is explicitly dependent on the
density (nor would I necessarily go all the way to 5%).  It depends
mostly on the average distance between stars, the travel time
to the border, and the current arrangement of foes without
the ability to expand upward or downward.

>The most complete data is in the 25LY sphere around
>Earth, with 214 stars.

Matching what one can see from the Earth is a problem, but
clearly one that a 2D background doesn't handle as well.
Either you decide that it is simply a small suspension of
disbelief to ignore matching the current known stars
around Sol than it is to look at the galaxy as 2D or
you invoke limited number planets and assume that most
stars don't have planets (either gas giants or ones with
water).

>The best reason I've herd on the list in the past 5 years is the one that
>says that _jumpspace_ is 2D.

I'm not sure this doesn't have as many holes and you get just making
things 3D....

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:13:22 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

Hello Anders and list,
  I am going to ask for forgiveness in advance for what I am about to say -
tongue in cheek of course <grin>

>If the high prices are due to mandatory insurance for
>accident/medical/pirates/kidnapping/allergies whatever and that you're
>required to have them if you want to use the Imperium wide High/Mid/Low
>passage system then traders that don't pay them will perhaps pay 100 Cr a
>week instead (10 Cr / week for LowPssg) but have a real hard time finding
>passengers.
>
>I don't really see what is wrong with this idea.

Don't you know?  Piracy can't happen in the Traveller Universe.  It has
been proven Conclusivly that there are too many military ships around with
nothing to do but chase down pirates, all of whom know that the pirates are
pirates, and that have the ability to know when the pirate is making his
move, and have such great sensors that they can tell when the pirate
captain is scratching his butt (though the hull of course).  Thus, the
anti-piracy insuarance is a hoax perpetrated by insuarance companies.

  But in a more serious tone:  Manditory insuarance wouldn't take into
account whether the stateroom is occupied or not, it would be one fee for
the entire vessel - possibly volume related, but more likely "value"
related.  A 100 displacement tons ship with Jump 4 ship will likely cost
more insurance wise, than a 100 displacement ton jump 1 ship.
  To the best of my knowledge, Modern transportation does not require
medical insurance for it's passengers, and even if the Imperium did mandate
it?  It would likely be a cost that would be transfered to the costumer.  

  All in all - I personally would favor the following approach to Economics
for Traveller:

1) figure out the cost to run the ship.  This will be the entire "expenses"
side of the ship's operation including the mortgage payments, mandated
imperial expenses, etc...

2) figure out the ship's expected revenue generation ability for that
particular planet.  Thus, if you have one star surrounded by 6 stars, but
traffic looks like this:

Star 1: 100% cargo capacity
star 2:  90% cargo capacity
star 3:  10% cargo capacity
star 4:  50% cargo capacity
star 5:  25% cargo capacity
star 6:  33% cargo capacity

 and the ship's expenses are such that it costs 800 credits per revenue
generating displacement ton and the ship's owner wants to make a 5% profit
over the costs...

Star 1:  840 cr per ton
star 2:  934 cr per ton
star 3: 8400 cr per ton
star 4: 1680 cr per ton
star 5: 3360 cr per ton
star 6: 2520 cr per ton

  As you can see from the above table, the revenue generated from the cargo
must be such that the trade can be sustained or else the ship loses
profitability, and goes bankrupt - which, if there are no other "cargo
carriers" around, would force the shippers to pile up the cargo without
anyone to carry it.
  The corrolary to this "system" is that the value of the cargo must be at
least the cost of the shipping, or must be something that absolutely must
be had at the other end.  An example of this would be foodstuffs.  If star
3 could not grow their own food for some reason, they have no choice but to
buy the food, and ship it at 8400 cr per displacement ton.  Assuming that
there are some 13.5 cubic meters to a displacement ton, we are looking at
an additional (assuming 1 credit equals $2 US) 623 cr cost per cubic meter.
 Thus, if, under the example above, something costs maybe 2 cr per unit,
and you can fit in 100 units per cubic meter - the final cost for that unit
probably should be around 650 cr per unit - which is a 3250% mark up over
it's value! (note, I added in another 25 cr cost for things such as local
planetary shipping, warehousing, and retailing)

  Well, this is just a series of "thoughts" unconnected to making such a
system work for Traveller... <grin>

    hal

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #270
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 12 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 271



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Chirper
T4.1 Vehicle Design System: what will it be?
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: An Idle Thought
andy slack reading list
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
A thought for T4.1
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: IMTU Pronunciations, proposed 101 books
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #270
Re: What Grey Thing?
Mile-wide non-near-C rock
Re: Passenger and Freight costs
Hello All!
Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth
Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth
RE: Anti-Psi
Re: Rifts, Combat and Mains in a 3D universe
Re: Hello All!
3d-starmapping resources
Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe
Re: An Idle Thought

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:17:38 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Chirper

"Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:

>SDM> Remember the 3I is dominated by Vilani.
>
>Is it really, though?
>
>I have some problems with this, as it's usually used as a handwave to
>justify the Imperium sticking to a single TL for centuries while Terra blew
>through a couple of them in a matter of about a century.  Note, I'm not
>saying that this is what you're doing, just saying that this is part of the
>idea that bugs me.

Okay, I'll try and explain my comment.

>Anyway, in the Aliens draft, it states that about 50% of all humans in the
>Imperium are from various minor human races, but it doesn't give the
>breakdown on Vilani vs. Solomani, but the Vilani obviously have far greater
>numbers.

I think that it is fair to assume that most of the minor races within the
bounds of the Ziru Sirka were culturally Vilani, if not genetically. The
Vilani imposed their culture on the worlds absorbed for over 3200 years
before the Terrans tipped them over the precipice and brought the whole
house down in less than 400 years. 3200 years doesn't disappear that
quickly. Many of the worlds that survived the Long Night within the bounds
of the old ZS will have fallen back into the old ways (IMO!).

Bear in mind the ZS was bigger than the 3I with a lower technology.
Controlled cultural attitudes held the empire together.

>But, in the span of time since the fall of the First Imperium, a
>heck of alot can change.  Basically, if you're playing as of the start of
>the Third Imperium, you've got over 2000 years since the Ziru Sirka fell.
>Furthermore, if you're playing as of the late Imperium, then you have 3300
>years since the Vilani fell.  In addition, you've had the Long Night, which
>served to further distance the Vilani descendants from their original way
>of thinking.

I think that M0 implies that Vilani culture hasn't changed significantly,
as does Vilani and Vargr. In addition, most of the early finance for the 3I
will be Vilani, as they have the only megacorp finance house (except for
Zhunastu?).

I agree that the culture will differ from the old ZS (especially with the
Solomani influence) but in the core of the 3I the culture will be Vilani in
much the same way that much of Europe (and argueably North America) has a
legal and cultural framework owing much to the Romans (a mere 1500 years
ago!). The Vilani were around longer, and actively sought an integrated
culture.

>It is stated in the entry under the Vilani ("Library Data: N-Z") that
>Vilani is now more of a "cultural" labelling given to those who still
>retain some of the old ways...

Yes. And it was the 'cultural' aspects that I was refering to.

>After all, the Solomani, though small in number, have influenced the
>Imperium greatly.  The dating system and the language are both Terran in
>origin...

I agree. But not necessarily as deeply as they would like, especially in
the Imperial core. However, I suspect by the Civil War much of the Vilani
influence has gone, except for the region around Vland.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:50:01 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: T4.1 Vehicle Design System: what will it be?

Lately I've been seeing a lot of very interesting vehicle designs posted to
the TML. They've been created using FFS2 and QSDS, for the most part.

I'd like to start collecting these ships and using them in my campaign
once I switch over to T4.1. However, I only want to do this if they will be
compatible with the T4.1 rules.

Does anyone know what rule set will be used for vehicle designs in T4.1?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:46:26 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Boy, I'm glad I live in Vegas (2000 ft above sealevel) :-).

seriously; We are SCREWED if it turns out it's going to hit us. The people in
charge of decision making now will be dead of old age then, so they don't
care.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:49:52 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

That is a GREAT idea.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:09:32 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: andy slack reading list

Welcome back Andy!

Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:
>I never noticed it before when you were around before...  Are you by
>chance the same Andy Slack who wrote the excellent "Backdrop of >Stars" in
White Dwarf?

As the 'fan' who asked much the same question when he first popped up I can
answer 'yes'.  (Though I'm sure Andy can/will speak for himself)

He also wrote:

Expanding Universe (Parts 1-4)
Star Patrol...: Scout Service in Traveller
Blowout!  Vacc Suits in Traveller
Droids: Robots for Traveller
Introduction to Traveller (Parts 1-4)
Assignment Survey
The Covert Security Bureau: Imperial Intelligence Agency
The Snowbird Mystery: scenario
Vehicle Combat
A Fleeting Encounter: Book 2 Fleets
To Live Forever: Immortality in Traveller
The Staurni: An alien race for Traveller
The Motivated Traveller

(which were all in White Dwarf)


(Guess who's been working on this bit of periodical bibliography for
Traveller articles!?)

Were there any others Andy?  (I know I asked this last time as well, but I
don't recall seeing an answer.)


>If so, I'd like to (belatedly) thank you for one of the most useful
>magazine articles on Traveller.  :^)


Rats!  Unfortunately that's one I've still not managed to track down (White
Dwarf 24).  One day... one day...


tc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:03:56 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

At 12:46 PM 12/03/98 EST, you wrote:
>Boy, I'm glad I live in Vegas (2000 ft above sealevel) :-).
>
>seriously; We are SCREWED if it turns out it's going to hit us. The people in
>charge of decision making now will be dead of old age then, so they don't
>care.
>
And that, my friends, is a damn good reason to require that all politicians
have children that they love.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:15:41 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: A thought for T4.1

It suddenly occured tome that an idea Marc might want to look into for T4.1
is including a disk with some of the better Traveller software that has
been developed.  Andy Akins' FFS2 spreadsheet, some of Rob's stuff.

This worked quite well for Champions 4th Edition, which gave you the
Heromaker software along with the rules.

Just a thought, back the meds again.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "I'm just like anybody else, I want |
|  to be a non-conformist too."       |
|                      -Lenny Bruce   |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:20:20 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Tommy Grav Wrote;
>On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
>> Asteroid found on near miss course with  Earth.  Designated  1997
>> XF11, it should pass  just  under  30,000  miles  from  Earth  on
>> October 26, 2028.  However, the estimate has a margin of error of
>> more than 180,000 miles!  The chance of an  actual  collision  is
>> small, but one is not entirely  out  of  the  question.
>>
>
>... This should give us a good
>estimate for its close approach, and should it come to close there will be
>plenty of time for countermeasures.

Ok, I thought a really big baseball glove would be the way to go, but then
my friend Douglas thought something in the line of a LaCrosse raquet would
be better, or perhaps a tennis raquet.

[or, we build a *huge* rabbit... Then when they take it inside...no, no
that won't work.]

Or, this could all be a big Hiver Plot to see how we, The Human Race, react
under pressure to perform (not very well is probably the correct
conclusion).

Oh, wait, humans came up with Hivers didn't they.  That's probably not it
then.  I think my reality meter is broken.

Wasn't there a whole thread about near c rocks on this list at some point?
Maybe the Pentagon would be interested...

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:31:15 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: IMTU Pronunciations, proposed 101 books

>Peter Brenton wrote:
>
>>Aramanx : ah' + rah + moe  (I said '+ manks' until I met Jo Grant)
>
>Eh?  What's that/why's that?  Linguonerds want to know!

Because they're from France. [pause to measure belief] I don't know, but Jo
has an an accent so it must be correct.  Besides, I never knew just how
that should sound and he was so confident-seeming about it.

[snip]
>All this points up the DESPERATE need for an expanded International
>Phonetic Alphabet -- the Interstellar Phonetic Alphabet.  One able to
>represent, within a single character set, the phonologies of _all_ the
>various hominid languages and the major nonhuman language-using species.
>
>I think there must be a section within the Admegulasha Argushiigi Bilanidin
>which has been working on this project for the last 3000 years...  Wow!
>What a TOTALLY GREAT theme for a M:0 campaign!

Or a (wait for it!) New 101 supplement from CORE!

Other ideas for 101 supplements that (probably) won't fly;

101 Near C Rocks
101 Technolgically Elevated Dictators
101 Single Celled Animals
101 Unihabited TL12 Mainworlds
101 TL4- Vacuum Worlds
101 Quoted Full Texts of TML Messages with a One Line of Useless Comment at
the End.

and so on.

I'm sure they'll be others voluteered without my suggesting it, which I
most certainly do not.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:31:04 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Sethkimmel wrote:

> Boy, I'm glad I live in Vegas (2000 ft above sealevel) :-).
>
> seriously; We are SCREWED if it turns out it's going to hit us. The people in
> charge of decision making now will be dead of old age then, so they don't
> care.

 You know...if God is about to drop a rock on us - Las "sin city" Vegas may not
necessarily be the best place to be!  :)

Seriously, the timing on this is kinda strange, what with 'asteroid' (or
whatever it is called) due out shortly.  I imagine there will be a lot of public
interest in this for a short time, then everyone will ignore it for the next
29.5 years.

douglas


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:31:35 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #270

Hal said:

> I am going to ask for forgiveness in advance for what I am about to 
> say - tongue in cheek of course <grin>
>
> Don't you know?  Piracy can't happen in the Traveller Universe....
> hull of course).  Thus, the anti-piracy insurance is a hoax 
> perpetrated by insurance companies.
>
> ...It would likely be a cost that would be transfered to the costumer. 
>                                                              ^^^^^^^^
>    hal

Of course it would be passed on to the costumer.  How else do they get
paid?  I mean, you got your tri-corner hat, your black, gold-trimmed
coat, your peg-leg and your striped shirt, not to mention the eye patch
and inflatable parrot! 

In fact, I think the Costumers Guild, is not pleased about the
anti-piracy movement...  It cuts into their profits! :-{>

Greg
The Count of MonteCristo@hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:42:21 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

>>Wasn't there some reference to a march Droyne world (red-zone) being blockaded
>>by battleships? Makes one wonder what a non-starflight world full of flying
>>lizards has done to require major fleet combatants overhead...
>Andory and Candor (?) in Five Sisters blockaded by a Tigresse no less!!!

So - Marc and Loren - was there ever going to be a story to go with this
and explain why the lizards needed a battleship to "protect" them?

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: 12 Mar 1998 14:18 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Mile-wide non-near-C rock

Asteroid hull
sphere: 1km radius   = 4/3 x pi x 1km^3
                     = 4 x 1 000 000 000 m^3
		     x 1/14 m^3 per ton
		     = more than 250 Mt displacement

Does that sound correct?

What would it take (equipment + Cr) to hollow out the inside,
add grav plates + a small fusion light+heat source (sun equivalent
with less heat), add a few external docking bays, and turn the 
thing into a little "park" or arcology?

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:18:24 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Passenger and Freight costs

At 01:17 AM 3/12/98 +0000, Ian wrote:
>Now, take a buisinessman travelling a Jump-1. He earns triple avaerage
>wages on his world (i.e. Cr 60 000 a year). The saving on travelling Coach
>vs Middle Passage is still about Cr 2500, or two weeks income for this
>quite wealthy individual.

How did you get 20K as the average income?  I have been getting roughly
10K, based on PE and TCS.

Admittedly, we could define a TL 12 hi tech ind planet as the norm, but it
seems like we might be better off with a something a bit more representative.

(IMTU, planets all tend to gravitate within a century to within three tech
levels of the biggest power nearby.  Much more, and the big power scents
competition, while much lower indicates darn little worth sending.)

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:02:46 -0800
From: Mike Wittek <mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com>
Subject: Hello All!

Hello All:

I am new to the list, and it is nice to see that Traveller is strong and
alive. Just kind of curious how many folks are on this list?

Great Gaming!
- --

Mike Wittek | Vacaville, California
mailto:mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com
     "Democracy isn't just the best form of government; It's the only
one even remotely worth a damn. Only democracy guarantees that people
get what they deserve."   --Zena Marley

DISCLAIMER: All that I write is my own opinion, and my opinion may not
be the opinion of my school or electronic courier. For that matter, it
may not be your opinion, but deal with it.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:43:04 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth

> Today's Rocky Mountain News, on page 2, has an article from a NY Times
> writer discussing an asteroid (1997 XF11) that will probably pass REALLY
> close to the earth on Thursday, Oct 26, 2028.  According to the article,
> the rock is one mile in diameter (in estimate).  It was discovered in early
> December by James Scotti at Kitt Peak.  Refinements of its orbit done
> around 3-4 March refined the proximity of its encounter to 30000.  Of
> course, the scientists involved stress that these are all estimates right
> now, that the asteroid may pass well outside the Moon's orbit, or it could
> hit Earth.
> 


That really sucks.  I am going to buy a house in colorado, and 2028 is
the year I'll have the mortgage paid off..

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:41:22 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth

> Today's Rocky Mountain News, on page 2, has an article from a NY Times
> writer discussing an asteroid (1997 XF11) that will probably pass REALLY
> close to the earth on Thursday, Oct 26, 2028.  According to the article,
> the rock is one mile in diameter (in estimate).  It was discovered in early
> December by James Scotti at Kitt Peak.  Refinements of its orbit done
> around 3-4 March refined the proximity of its encounter to 30000.  Of
> course, the scientists involved stress that these are all estimates right
> now, that the asteroid may pass well outside the Moon's orbit, or it could
> hit Earth.
> 


That really sucks.  I am going to buy a house in colorado, and 2028 is
the year I'll have the mortgage paid off..

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:40:06 -0700
From: Steve Deemer <stedee@auto-trol.com>
Subject: RE: Anti-Psi

This looks a lot like the plot device in a 1970s SF novel _Charles Fort Never
Mentioned Wombats_. Aliens are about to make contact with Earth and choose
an SF convention in Australia as the test market for how to go about it, only
to find that SF fans are a fairly skeptical group. At the end, the aliens are trying
to escape while a group of fans stand around mocking their real flying saucer
as an obvious fake, their combined psi powers causing the ship to malfunction.

Steve Deemer
stedee@auto-trol.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	anders.backman@aniware.se [SMTP:anders.backman@aniware.se]
> Sent:	Thursday, March 12, 1998 7:09 AM
> To:	traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject:	Re: Anti-Psi
> 
> >>So does this mean that there is such a thing as negative ability?
> >
> >I have read that some Psi researchers postulate such negative abilities. It is
> >an explanation for why the results go _way_ down if a skeptic (someone who
> >doeas not believe in psi abilities) is involved in the testing.
> 
> Is this the same force that seem to deflect UFOs away from
> nonbelievers?
> 
> 
> /Anders Backman
> Aniware AB
> anders.backman@aniware.se
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:25:12 -0600
From: jpettit@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Rifts, Combat and Mains in a 3D universe

Although this would be exceedingly difficult, you could remap the
existing maps to 3D by using each of the hex faces as orthographic
direction.  You start with the important locations and arbitrarily set
them on the same plane.  Then you start working out from them to other
systems.  Instead of going rimward and then Trailing, you can select the
option of going up and then over.



Up  Rimward  Trailing
  \   |   /
   \  |  /
    \ | /
     Base
    / | \
   /  |  \
  /   |   \
Spin Core Down

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:16:56 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Hello All!

At 12:02 PM 3/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hello All:
>
>I am new to the list, and it is nice to see that Traveller is strong and
>alive. Just kind of curious how many folks are on this list?

About 500 humans, at least three humans who have turned into hamsters,
Kenji, and me, the evil Ancient AI.
- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:29:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: 3d-starmapping resources

I've been skimming the recent 3d-starmapping discussion, and I have to
agree that moving from a 2d-universe to a 3d-universe is a huge shift.
What it does, is essence, is it makes your universe a lot bigger and/or
everything in it a lot closer together. Is it worth doing? I guess that
depends on what kind of game you're looking for. If you're satisfied
with flat-maps, stick with them. They're a lot easier to conceptualize
and deal with. If you want that hard-science feel, however, then 3d
may be a step worth taking. Jim Cooper recently plugged my 3d-starmap
proggie (thanks Jim):

Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Try it. You may like it. I did and I did. (Copied from a previous post)
>>         PROGRAM NAME: "STARMAP" [v1.0] {February 1998}
>>         AUTHOR: Jim Vassilakos  (jimv@empirenet.com)
>>         FUNCTION: 3d Starmapper
>>         OPERATING SYSTEM: IBM (MS-DOS)
>>         SIZE: 1,815,334 bytes zipped
>>         COMMENTS: Create and explore three-dimensional starmaps

You can get this from http://members.aol.com/jimvassila in the rpg-software
section of my homepage. The program includes:

   * A real-data starmap of stars within about 50 light years of Earth.
     This is taken from Gliese's 3rd catalogue of near stars (with some
     filler added for where the observations seem to drop off, this is
     all documented in help\fillgal.txt for those who are interested).
     For those who remember the starmap in Traveller-2300, that was based
     on Gliese's 2nd catalogue. Hence, the starmap in this program should
     be even more accurate.

   * Extensive discussions on the formulation of a brand new SF-RPG
     universe including a political background, several alien races,
     and even a brief story to help set the stage. This is still very
     much a work-in-progress, and I hope to begin expanding it once
     the new version of Galactic is ready for release. There is even
     a mailing list set up for discussion if you are really interested.
     Email me for further info.

   * As with Galactic, you can attach campaign notes to the various
     star systems on the map. Likewise, you can also attach star system
     maps and world maps.

   * The map scrolls around you as you crawl around it, using the arrow
     keys to move along the x/y-axes and the pgup/pgdn keys to move along
     the z-axis. Hitting the F3 key will allow you to enter a subprogram
     where you can rotate the local vicinity that you are looking at in
     three dimensions, looking at it from any angle you like. Hitting
     the "?" key from just about any map will show you a list of help
     options.

   * Someone asked me if the program can be used to create entirely new
     starmaps. Yes, it can do this. You can create one off-the-cuff,
     telling the program to supply random data, or you can use the
     data file (data\fillgal\stars.dat) that was used to create the
     sample map already included with the package, or you can even
     create your own data file and use that instead. You want to
     recreate the Traveller-2300 universe? It wouldn't be all that
     difficult (incidentally, Anders Sandberg typed in this data
     a few years back, and I think I still have a copy lurking about
     if anybody wants it).

   * All data files are flat text for easy manual editing. The source
     code for the program and all its subprograms is provided. And, last
     but not least, it's public domain. You can mess with it and
     redistribute it however you like. I would ask that you not charge
     money for it, but since it's public domain now, I can't even stop
     you from doing that. Basically, I'm relying on people's individual
     honesty here.

If you have trouble getting it from my homepage, let me know and I'll
send you a copy via email. It's also available from Winchell Chung's
3d starmapping homepage (http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/starmap.html).
There you will find lots of other 3d starmapping tools including Jo
Grant's ChView (http://members.nova.org/~sol/chview) mentioned here
recently. Aside from Jo's code-smithing, this package also contains
some excellent star data courtesy of Ben Lin, who really went to town
when devising this dataset. I also have a really cool proggie called
PC-Space where you basically fly around in 3d. I can email a copy of
this to anyone who's interested. Lots of stuff to choose from. Hope
you find the time to check it out... jimv@empirenet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:38:37 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

>Andrew Smith wrote:
>
>First off Andrew, I'm not picking a fight, just making comments as I see
>them. OK

I do apologise too. After I posted I realised some of my sentences were
somewhat prickly. Not my intention at all. Thanks for being more adult than
I was. :-)


8<

>I say again, it will depend on the DM and his gaming style. I like what
>I have seen, will cheerfully recommend it to any who are interested, and
>will continue to fudge MTU into my 3D universe on whatever terms I deem
>are right. So can you.

Again, I agree. It's a matter of what you decide is important. And this
thread has been good for one thing: it's made me think harder about 3D
strategy. My campaign is set in a volume which is pretty easy to cross as
there are a preponderance of routes through junk systems. At first glance
this suggests keeping the balance of sector forces in reserve, scattering
SDBs as harrassment forces everywhere, and playing submarines with your war
fleets. Any other ideas?
>
>Jim
>Have fun in 3D

Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:36:41 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

Paul Rocchi wrote:

> > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:29:37 -0800
> > From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
> > Subject: An idle thought...
> >
> > So what are the odds that SJG might be re-releasing their old
> > line of Cardboard Heroes for (GURPS) Traveller? That beats the
> > heck out of waiting for someone to find / re-license molds for
> > the CT-era metal figures.
>
> Very poor.  SJG's Cardboard Heroes, although a neat product, are too
> expensive to produce for the profit generated.  I'm sure Loren would
> be able to tell you the same.  One thing that is under consideration
> is placng on the SJG website files of cardboard hero artwork,
> collected in 8"x11" sheets. Download, print to cardstock, and cut
> out.  Perhaps we can ask Loren to push for this?

This would be a *great* idea!  I would hope that SJG would give
permission for individuals to post their own designs to the web like
they currently do for Car Wars Chits.  Villains & Vigilantes (perhaps my
own personal all-time favorite RPG despite some its problems - probably
because of Jeff Dee's great artwork) had a similar setup.  Man I love
those things.

Heck, my brother and his best friend are good computer artists and have
created lots of Car Wars chits.  I'll ask them about it.  Does anyone
know what the exact dimensions of those cardboard heroes are?  Height,
Width, base size?

Thanks
Bloo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #271
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 12 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 272



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Dark Star available at Hyperbooks
Re: Chirper
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Rifts, Combat and Mains in a 3D universe
Re: Hello All!
Re: Hello All!
Re: T4.1 Vehicle Design System: what will it be?
World Data Silly-Compression
Re: Hello All!
Re: Chirper
Re: Hello All!
Re: IMTU Pronunciations
Vilani Font
Convention Notice-Scotland
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: 3d-starmapping resources
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Reprints
Re: Vilani Font
Cardboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:37:06 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Dark Star available at Hyperbooks

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote:


>Whatever you think of Phil's Traveller opinions (and I know some of you
>violently disagree with them), his magazine is definately worth this price
>(assuming that the downloaded version can be printed).

Provided the security options haven't been checked to prevent printout
Acrobat should print them. Phil? Can you enlighten us?

Ta

Dom



- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:39:20 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Chirper

"Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:

>SDM> Remember the 3I is dominated by Vilani.
>
>Is it really, though?
>
>I have some problems with this, as it's usually used as a handwave to
>justify the Imperium sticking to a single TL for centuries while Terra blew
>through a couple of them in a matter of about a century.  Note, I'm not
>saying that this is what you're doing, just saying that this is part of the
>idea that bugs me.

Okay, I'll try and explain my comment.

>Anyway, in the Aliens draft, it states that about 50% of all humans in the
>Imperium are from various minor human races, but it doesn't give the
>breakdown on Vilani vs. Solomani, but the Vilani obviously have far greater
>numbers.

I think that it is fair to assume that most of the minor races within the
bounds of the Ziru Sirka were culturally Vilani, if not genetically. The
Vilani imposed their culture on the worlds absorbed for over 3200 years
before the Terrans tipped them over the precipice and brought the whole
house down in less than 400 years. 3200 years doesn't disappear that
quickly. Many of the worlds that survived the Long Night within the bounds
of the old ZS will have fallen back into the old ways (IMO!).

Bear in mind the ZS was bigger than the 3I with a lower technology.
Controlled cultural attitudes held the empire together.

>But, in the span of time since the fall of the First Imperium, a
>heck of alot can change.  Basically, if you're playing as of the start of
>the Third Imperium, you've got over 2000 years since the Ziru Sirka fell.
>Furthermore, if you're playing as of the late Imperium, then you have 3300
>years since the Vilani fell.  In addition, you've had the Long Night, which
>served to further distance the Vilani descendants from their original way
>of thinking.

I think that M0 implies that Vilani culture hasn't changed significantly,
as does Vilani and Vargr. In addition, most of the early finance for the 3I
will be Vilani, as they have the only megacorp finance house (except for
Zhunastu?).

I agree that the culture will differ from the old ZS (especially with the
Solomani influence) but in the core of the 3I the culture will be Vilani in
much the same way that much of Europe (and argueably North America) has a
legal and cultural framework owing much to the Romans (a mere 1500 years
ago!). The Vilani were around longer, and actively sought an integrated
culture.

>It is stated in the entry under the Vilani ("Library Data: N-Z") that
>Vilani is now more of a "cultural" labelling given to those who still
>retain some of the old ways...

Yes. And it was the 'cultural' aspects that I was refering to.

>After all, the Solomani, though small in number, have influenced the
>Imperium greatly.  The dating system and the language are both Terran in
>origin...

I agree. But not necessarily as deeply as they would like, especially in
the Imperial core. However, I suspect by the Civil War much of the Vilani
influence has gone, except for the region around Vland.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:43:41 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Douglas Glatz wrote:

> Seriously, the timing on this is kinda strange, what with 'asteroid' (or
> whatever it is called) due out shortly.  I imagine there will be a lot of public
> interest in this for a short time, then everyone will ignore it for the next
> 29.5 years.

2 films soon to be released:

Armagedon:  Bruce Willis and friends fly two shuttles up to mile wide asteroid.
They plan to first drill a hold into asteroid's center, then fill it with enough
nuclear weapons to atomize it.  Comes out July 4.

Deep Impact:  A huge asteroid actually impacts (hitting the ocean I think) and
hilarity ensues.  Sometime this summer.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:52:05 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Rifts, Combat and Mains in a 3D universe

8<

> The most complete data is in the 25LY sphere around
>Earth, with 214 stars. It is too early in the morning for me to work out
>the average number of stars per cubic parsec that equates to, but someone
>out there will work it out. I strongly suspect it is way higher than 5%
>which is what your _dense_ areas of the Imperium will become if you do
>this.

I looked at the Gliese 3 data, about 3,500 stars in 2,500 systems within 25
parsecs of Sol. I think this works out to be a tad less than one star per
40 cubic parsecs. It's possible to get around it with J2 but tedious, and
you'd better lay in a copy of 'War and Peace' at J1.

8<
>    On the other hand, if your desire for 3D is only because there is no
>logical explanation for why space is 2D you can always just explain that.
>The best reason I've herd on the list in the past 5 years is the one that
>says that _jumpspace_ is 2D. The maps we see are not of real space, but
>rather of jump space. These stars are really scattered over 3 dimensions
>but there is no point mapping it that way because no one travels through
>real space interstellar wise.

>    If you accept this logic, there are a number of interesting plot
>devices you can use. For example, there might be a binary star system where
>the two stars are only a few weeks apart at _maneuver_ 6, but are many many
>jumps away at _jump_ 6. This gives you a "wormhole" like affect. It would
>introduce interesting twists to your communication net. Such places would
>be rather rare (to maintain the normal background) but interesting.

This is an amazingly, amazingly, cute idea. Thankyou.

>
>    Cheers,
>                 Jo

Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:13:11 -0500
From: "Mike Peters" <Letterworks@CITNET.com>
Subject: Re: Hello All!

Well Mike some would say there are a lot of people on the list, others
would tell you that there are a few. The truth is there is only one person
on the list and that person is a secret Hiver created, Templer trained
clone whose sole purpose is to impersonate all of the creative minds that
have been kidnapped and transported to the Five Sisters..... what? oh, OK.
Sorry I have to go now, it's time for my medicine. Bye.

Mike Peters 
Letterworks@CITNET.com

- ----------
> From: Mike Wittek <mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com>
> To: Traveller List <traveller@mpgn.com>
> Subject: Hello All!
> Date: Thursday, March 12, 1998 3:02 PM
> 
> Hello All:
> 
> I am new to the list, and it is nice to see that Traveller is strong and
> alive. Just kind of curious how many folks are on this list?
> 
> Great Gaming!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:00:29 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Hello All!

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> At 12:02 PM 3/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >Hello All:
> >
> >I am new to the list, and it is nice to see that Traveller is strong and
> >alive. Just kind of curious how many folks are on this list?
>
> About 500 humans, at least three humans who have turned into hamsters,
> Kenji, and me, the evil Ancient AI.

And you forgot to mention the illustrious Marc Miller, a.k.a. Grandfather!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:08:10 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 Vehicle Design System: what will it be?

In a message dated 98-03-12 12:11:21 EST, you write:

<< 
 Does anyone know what rule set will be used for vehicle designs in T4.1?
 
  >>
If anyone else says yes, they are wrong, because I don't know myself.
Seriously, I don't expect that the basic T4.1 will have a vehicle design
system in it... just a set of vehicle cards with statistics, etc. When I get
closer, I will find some way of getting those vehicle stats, perhaps from one
of the availabel systems based on FF&S II.

The decision is not yet made.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: 12 Mar 1998 17:18 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: World Data Silly-Compression

Short of using a real compression algorithm, here is a simple
(machine-based) formula for compressing sector listing sizes,
provided your viewer can automatically expand them to normal:

1. Location: row = 1-9, A-Z, a-d  	saves 1 byte
             col = 1-9, A-Z, a-d	saves 1 byte

2. TL 'dash' removed			saves 1 byte

3. Extra spaces betw. TL & base gone	saves 1-2 bytes

4. Encoding major trade classifications saves many bytes:
   Encode 66 of the most common types:

00                     1832  (1)
01 Ag                  2144  (2)
02 Ag Ni               8345  (8)
03 Ag Ni Ri            1788  (1)
04 Ag Ri               1468  (1)
05 Hi                  6090  (6)
06 Hi In               1631  (1)
07 Hi In Po            270   (0)
08 Hi In Po De         67    (0)
09 Hi In Wa            369   (0)
10 Hi Na               429   (0)
11 Hi Na Ic            38    (0)
12 Hi Na In            459   (0)
13 Hi Na In Ic         39    (0)
14 Hi Na In Po         303   (0)
15 Hi Na In Po De      211   (0)
16 Hi Na In Va         657   (0)
17 Hi Na In Va As      205   (0)
18 Hi Na In Va Ic      15    (0)
19 Hi Na Po            949   (0)
20 Hi Na Po De         440   (0)
21 Hi Na Va            648   (0)
22 Hi Na Va As         244   (0)
23 Hi Na Va Ic         20    (0)
24 Hi Po               764   (0)
25 Hi Po De            122   (0)
26 Hi Ri               1348  (1)
27 Hi Ri Wa            242   (0)
28 Hi Wa               1042  (1)
29 Lo Ni               16761 (16)
30 Lo Ni Ic            127   (0)
31 Lo Ni Po            3818  (3)
32 Lo Ni Po De         1368  (1)
33 Lo Ni Va            2234  (2)
34 Lo Ni Va As         798   (0)
35 Lo Ni Va Ic         47    (0)
36 Lo Ni Wa            2773  (2)
37 Na                  575   (0)
38 Na Ic               73    (0)
39 Na Ni               757   (0)
40 Na Ni Ic            65    (0)
41 Na Ni Po            1050  (1)
42 Na Ni Po De         524   (0)
43 Na Ni Va            1147  (1)
44 Na Ni Va As         383   (0)
45 Na Ni Va Ic         37    (0)
46 Na Po               825   (0)
47 Na Po De            404   (0)
48 Na Va               927   (0)
49 Na Va As            290   (0)
50 Na Va Ic            22    (0)
51 Ni                  15039 (15)
52 Ni Ic               151   (0)
53 Ni Po               5066  (5)
54 Ni Po De            1700  (1)
55 Ni Ri               586   (0)
56 Ni Ri Wa            491   (0)
57 Ni Va               2364  (2)
58 Ni Va As            864   (0)
59 Ni Va Ic            72    (0)
60 Ni Wa               3995  (3)
61 Po                  732   (0)
62 Po De               130   (0)
63 Ri                  496   (0)
64 Ri Wa               384   (0)
65 Wa                  746   (0)

	This would save 12+ bytes for most worlds.  The remaining
	worlds would have the additional data as usual.  No biggie.

5. Remove the pesky spaces between PBG and Alliance data.
6. For that matter, remove pesky spaces from Stellar data too.

In summary, if you can reduce world data size by around 25% you've 
reduced your file size by around 25%.

Not that I'm about to do that, at least now...

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:34:40 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Hello All!

Douglas Berry wrote:

>>Hello All:
>>
>>I am new to the list, and it is nice to see that Traveller is strong and
>>alive. Just kind of curious how many folks are on this list?
>
>About 500 humans, at least three humans who have turned into hamsters,
>Kenji, and me, the evil Ancient AI.

In fact, not many people realize this, but Doug actually _is_ the server
for the TML.  Every piece of mail on this list is routed through the phony
MPGN front directly into Doug's brain, where it's checked for orthodixical
rigor and subliminal messages are implanted to keep the rest of us
performing according to the Plan, and then uploaded back to the 'net.

Leroy Guatney is merely a recurring glitch in the paranoid psychosis
suppression modules.  Likewise, Marc Miller and Loren Wiseman actually
aren't on this list; they're [TRANSMISSION BREAK]

Makes you wonder just what that "Pearl Harbor Day Crash" this December
really was, eh?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:33:11 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Chirper

At 09:39 PM 3/12/98 +0000, you wrote:

>>After all, the Solomani, though small in number, have influenced the
>>Imperium greatly.  The dating system and the language are both Terran in
>>origin...
>
>I agree. But not necessarily as deeply as they would like, especially in
>the Imperial core. However, I suspect by the Civil War much of the Vilani
>influence has gone, except for the region around Vland.

Note that Emperor Zhukov broke the Solomani power at Court by marrying a
Vilanni noblewoman in 666, IIRC.  This indicates that the Imperium up to
that point was dominated by Solomani desended nobility.
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
|-------------------------------------|
| "It is not the big armies that win  |
|  battles, it is the good ones"      |
|             -Maurice de Saxe        |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:44:01 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Hello All!

At 02:34 PM 3/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>>>Hello All:
>>>
>>>I am new to the list, and it is nice to see that Traveller is strong and
>>>alive. Just kind of curious how many folks are on this list?
>>
>>About 500 humans, at least three humans who have turned into hamsters,
>>Kenji, and me, the evil Ancient AI.
>
>In fact, not many people realize this, but Doug actually _is_ the server
>for the TML.  Every piece of mail on this list is routed through the phony
>MPGN front directly into Doug's brain, where it's checked for orthodixical
>rigor and subliminal messages are implanted to keep the rest of us
>performing according to the Plan, and then uploaded back to the 'net.

This is extremely frightening considering the amount of Dilantin I take
every day, although it would explain the seizures.. (Honestly, Dr. Waltuch,
I route several hundred pieces of email a week!)

>Leroy Guatney is merely a recurring glitch in the paranoid psychosis
>suppression modules.  Likewise, Marc Miller and Loren Wiseman actually
>aren't on this list; they're [TRANSMISSION BREAK]
>
>Makes you wonder just what that "Pearl Harbor Day Crash" this December
>really was, eh?

Climb Mt. Nikita!

>Kenji Schwarz
>kenji@accessone.com

Or so he likes to think.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "I'm just like anybody else, I want |
|  to be a non-conformist too."       |
|                      -Lenny Bruce   |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:45:34 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: IMTU Pronunciations

trisen wrote:

>Someone wrote:
>> Zhodani: zho + d-ah-n' + ee
>> Zhodane: zho' + dane (as in Danish)
>
>Not sure I agree with these ...
>
>According  to  the  CT  Zhodani  alien  module:  "Zhodani"  is  a
>Galanglic  word  meaning  humans   from   Zhdant   (the   Zhodani
>homeworld).  It is composed  of  a  contraction  of  the  Zhodani
>"Zhdant" and the Galanglic "-ani" suffix.  The "-ani"  suffix  is
>"ah-n' + ee",  but  the  "Zhod"  root   should   follow   Zhodani
>pronounciation rules.  "Zh" is pronounced  as  "s"  is  "measure"
>(short "sh" sound),  thus  "Zho"  is  pronounced  not  "zoe"  but
>"show".

No offense, but I seriously doubt you pronounce the "s" in "measure" and
and the "sh" in "show" identically.  In every English dialect I've ever
heard or heard about, the former is voiced, and the latter is voiceless.
If you really do pronounce "show" with a voiced initial, please report to
the nearest university department of linguistics and become immortalized in
a long series of academic footnotes and conference papers <G>

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:47:38 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Vilani Font

Hi All,

Some months ago, a very creative person announced a font for the Vilani
language. I need a copy, urgently. I know it was on somebody's web page,
but I don't remember where the file can be found. Help, please. A notorious
Imperial bureau flounders until the poor sods know what letter style to
write in.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Brian A. Howard

Beware the sound of a Babel fish,
For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:10:59 +0000
From: Richard Talbot <richardt@post.almac.co.uk>
Subject: Convention Notice-Scotland

Hi folks 

Convention Notice and BITS Attendance

British Isles Traveller Support will be running a small stand at
Conpulsion 98 held in Edinburgh, Scotland (details below)

Gm's are in short supply and BITS would like to run as many games as
possible.  Although no official tournament is planned we would like to
run demo games of T4 as well as other versions of Traveller

Anyway if you are in the area and can come along to support BITS either
as a player or GM please do so. I can even smile for you as well (A hard
feat even for myself :)) Conpulsion is a fairly new convention so i cant
promise huge attendance but the more the merrier!!!!(hint)

We will also be selling a few copies of the BITS 101 books if you have
trouble getting hold of them.

If would like to join BITS please email the Coordinator Andy Lilly at
A.S.LILLY@NORTEL.CO.UK

Please do not contact me for membership details.  

Please check the attached http for convention details or contact myself
if you plan to turn up to GM.



http://www.ed.ac.uk/~geas/CONVENTION/

- -- 
Regards 

Richard J Talbot
email: richardt@post.almac.co.uk
http://www.almac.co.uk/richardt/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 00:01:01 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

On 12 Mar 98, Sethkimmel disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by 
writing:

> Boy, I'm glad I live in Vegas (2000 ft above sealevel) :-).
> 
> seriously; We are SCREWED if it turns out it's going to hit us. The
> people in charge of decision making now will be dead of old age
> then, so they don't care.

Hmmm... "Lucifer's Hammer", anyone? 

Now I'm glad I live far from sea. (Besides, what are the chances of 
it hitting the Baltic Sea? There are bigger seas on this globe, after 
all... ;>)

ObTrav: That might make a nice scenario for Traveller, providin the 
PCs ship is somehow damaged. (Say, they had to make an emergency 
landing on a TL9 planet, and their ship is still being repaired...)


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
  Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+ 
  PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
    This tagline is SHAREWARE!  To register, send me $10.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:15:37 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Re: 3d-starmapping resources

Jim Vassilakos wrote:

> I've been skimming the recent 3d-starmapping discussion, and I have to
> agree that moving from a 2d-universe to a 3d-universe is a huge shift.

I *wanted* to participate in this discussion, but have been having
problems getting to it..if you know what I mean. ;->  Anyway, I agree
with Jim (among others) that shifting from 2d to 3d is going to have a
*big* effect on the game.  Such a big effect, I decided to forgo trying.
I use the "jump map doesn't correspond to real space" approach.  

I've been thinking about a tramline style system (Alderman
Drive-Pournelle and Niven). You could use that in a 3d universe and
still keep the number of accessable systems down and have the equivilant
of rifts, chokepoints, mains, etc. I don't know how you would *map* this
though, not like the standard Trav map I don't think. Any ideas?

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:53:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:

> This is not about Traveller but I thought the list might  find it
> interesting.  Check out
> http://europe.cnn.com/TECH/space/9803/11/asteroid/index.html
> 
> Summary:
> 
> Asteroid found on near miss course with  Earth.  Designated  1997
> XF11, it should pass  just  under  30,000  miles  from  Earth  on
> October 26, 2028.  However, the estimate has a margin of error of
> more than 180,000 miles!  The chance of an  actual  collision  is
> small, but one is not entirely  out  of  the  question.
> 

   Top Ten Spots I'd Like to See the Asteroid Hit If It Were Coming *Tomorrow*

10) My ex-boss' house.

9)  Iraq (defy these sanctions Sadaam!)

8)  EuroDisney (once again, I must apologize...)

7)  New York City (setting up that classic Charlton Heston scene in "Planet
of the Apes" with the Statue of Liberty)

6)  Anywhere within 5 ft. of Bill Clinton, preferably while he is "training"
a new intern.

5)  Moscow, Bejing or Paris (negotiate with Sadaam, right!)

4)  Dennis Rodman's house (he would turn it into a fashion statement)

3)  The "parallel Earth" depicted in bad 1950s sci-fi movies

2)  Bill Gates' house (he would turn it into a design feature)

1)  Los Angeles (for more reasons than I can count, ideally with Beverly
Hills as "ground zero"...)

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:21:34 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Reprints

<<> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:29:37 -0800
> From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
> Subject: An idle thought...
> 
> So what are the odds that SJG might be re-releasing their old
> line of Cardboard Heroes for (GURPS) Traveller? That beats the
> heck out of waiting for someone to find / re-license molds for
> the CT-era metal figures.

Very poor.  SJG's Cardboard Heroes, although a neat product, are too 
expensive to produce for the profit generated.  I'm sure Loren would 
be able to tell you the same.  One thing that is under consideration 
is placng on the SJG website files of cardboard hero artwork, 
collected in 8"x11" sheets. Download, print to cardstock, and cut 
out.  Perhaps we can ask Loren to push for this?

Paul Rocchi
SJG MiB>>

The official word is that nothing is out of print permanently, although
reality intervenes and prevents us from re-printing everything at once. 

Everything to he who waits, as Hannibal Lector once said.

By the way, please ignore that stuff I said about the grey thing on the back
of my neck. 

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:41:23 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Vilani Font

> Hi All,
> 
> Some months ago, a very creative person announced a font for the Vilani
> language. I need a copy, urgently. I know it was on somebody's web page,
> but I don't remember where the file can be found. Help, please. A
notorious
> Imperial bureau flounders until the poor sods know what letter style to
> write in.

Woah!  The font actually _exists_?  I second the question!!!  Where is
it???

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:54:20 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Cardboard

<<> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:29:37 -0800
> From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
> Subject: An idle thought...
> 
> So what are the odds that SJG might be re-releasing their old
> line of Cardboard Heroes for (GURPS) Traveller? That beats the
> heck out of waiting for someone to find / re-license molds for
> the CT-era metal figures.

Very poor.  SJG's Cardboard Heroes, although a neat product, are too 
expensive to produce for the profit generated.  I'm sure Loren would 
be able to tell you the same.  One thing that is under consideration 
is placng on the SJG website files of cardboard hero artwork, 
collected in 8"x11" sheets. Download, print to cardstock, and cut 
out.  Perhaps we can ask Loren to push for this?

Paul Rocchi
SJG MiB>>

The official word is that nothing is out of print permanently, although
reality intervenes and prevents us from re-printing everything at once. 

Everything to he who waits, as Hannibal Lector once said.

By the way, please ignore that stuff I said about the grey thing on the back
of my neck. 

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #272
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, March 13 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 273



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

General Quarters Procedure (fwd)
Re: Vilani Font
Re: Anti-Psi
Re: Dark Star available at Hyperbooks
Re: Vilani Font
Re: Missions of State Review / Other items reviewed
[none]
Re: Chirper
Re: Vilani Font
Re: Vilani Font
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #272
Re: Andy's back
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Chirper
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Passenger and Freight Costs
Re: Cardboard Heros
The 'Joes' (was: IMTU Pronunciations)
Re: Cardboard Heroes Redux
Re: The 'Joes' (was: IMTU Pronunciations)
Re: IMTU Pronunciations
gray things
Re: An Idle Thought
Cardboard Heroes
Re: Chirper

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 98 02:29 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: General Quarters Procedure (fwd)

Moin Andrew Akins,

> a) Crew into vacc suits - at higher TLs, this one is easy, because vacc
> suits are so light and can be worn as duty uniforms. But at the low TLs,
> would the time necessary and the bulkiness be a deterent? Do sailors in the
> modern navy don life jackets during gerneal quarters?
> b) Decompress the ship. This is rather radical, I admit...but it could
> prevent some chaos that might ensue during an explosive decompression. Of
> course, this requires (a) to be enacted :)
> c) Screens powered up. If screens can be detected with PEMS, I would say
> they would be left off to keep stealth characteristics. But if they are
> undetectable, then it might be a good idea.
> d) Gravity normalized to 0G. Again, this seems radical - but could it be
> done to prevent the disorientation that may occur if gravity is suddenly
> lost?

	"Hard Times" mentioned that it was standard in the wilds to
	decompress to 0.1at and use a respirartor/pressure suite whenever
	a ship launches or exits jump space. Exeptions are the "kickback"
	in jump space and the "suiteless" save areas.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:20:13 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Vilani Font

The pod-person who replaced Semofetus wrote:

>> Some months ago, a very creative person announced a font for the Vilani
>> language. I need a copy, urgently. I know it was on somebody's web page,
>> but I don't remember where the file can be found. Help, please. A
>notorious
>> Imperial bureau flounders until the poor sods know what letter style to
>> write in.
>
>Woah!  The font actually _exists_?  I second the question!!!  Where is
>it???

Glenn Hoppe is the V.C.P. in question; last I remember hearing, the font
was up on his website:
   <http:\\www.geocities.com\Area51\8275\Bilanidin.sit> (Mac TrueType)
   <http:\\www.geocities.com\Area51\8275\bilani.zip> (PC TrueType)

I don't know if this is still current... the versions above were _drafts_,
not final editions; IIRC they had only symbol assignments for the lowercase
letters a-z.  We discussed on TravLang a bit about how to use it to write
Vilani, as opposed to Galanglic words... I'm not sure where further work on
the script has progressed.  And I'm not sure I'd tell a blatant robot clone
imposter, either... not that I'm pointing any fingers at anyone.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:24:24 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Anti-Psi

Ahh You mean the  "Shyness effect", well doccumented.  Particularly affected
former magician URI Geller when trying to exercise his paranormal poweres in
front of The Amazing Randi, a sceptic and magician.... But seriously,
negative psi rather than the absence of psi?  I am not sure I can conceive
how this might happen.  Surely even something like destructive interference
would be positive psi?


Colin

At 15:09 12/03/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>>So does this mean that there is such a thing as negative ability?
>>
>>I have read that some Psi researchers postulate such negative abilities. It is
>>an explanation for why the results go _way_ down if a skeptic (someone who
>>doeas not believe in psi abilities) is involved in the testing.
>
>Is this the same force that seem to deflect UFOs away from nonbelievers?
>
>
>/Anders Backman
>Aniware AB
>anders.backman@aniware.se
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 98 03:35 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Dark Star available at Hyperbooks

Moin SD Mooney,

> Provided the security options haven't been checked to prevent printout
> Acrobat should print them. Phil? Can you enlighten us?

	one tip: I'm using Ghostscipt under Unix, and a PDF which had
	accidently the "prevent printing" flag set, prints out fine here ;-)

	Ghostscript is also available for MacWinDummies, so give it a try
	if you have a problem with those consumer cheating rotten software.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:22:02 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Vilani Font

At 06:20 PM 3/12/98 +0800, you wrote:
>The pod-person who replaced Semofetus wrote:
>
>>> Some months ago, a very creative person announced a font for the Vilani
>>> language. I need a copy, urgently. I know it was on somebody's web page,
>>> but I don't remember where the file can be found. Help, please. A
>
>Glenn Hoppe is the V.C.P. in question; last I remember hearing, the font
>was up on his website:
>   <http:\\www.geocities.com\Area51\8275\Bilanidin.sit> (Mac TrueType)
>   <http:\\www.geocities.com\Area51\8275\bilani.zip> (PC TrueType)
>
>I don't know if this is still current... 

Apparently, not. I have tried the above address, and then followed a
painstaking route to Glenn's home page, but no luck. The server just
blinked at me and the site contains no link to a font file that I could
see. Glenn are you out there?


Sincerely,

Brian A. Howard

Beware the sound of a Babel fish,
For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:57:25 -0600
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: Re: Missions of State Review / Other items reviewed

> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Missions of State Review - *SPOILERS*
> Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 5:55 PM
> 
> Review of "Missions of State"
> 
[snip]

<Sounds of general agreement.>

With that excellent review, I have decided to act upon one of my desires
for the Not-the-IG Website.
I would like to add comments and reviews of IG products.  For each
product, a page of comments from the TML about the products strengths,
weaknesses, usefulness, and compatibility with canon, as well as a general
rating (from *must have* to *avoid like the plague*.)

Why open such a can of worms?

One reason:
1) To provide a resource for people new to Traveller or T4.  

A series of reviews/ratings of the IG products would give new players an
idea of which books they might need or want, and would also prepare them
for those products that give you that not-so-fresh feeling.

What I would like:

More things like the review above!  If you would like to write a review,
or just rate the IG products that you have, please email me with your
thoughts.  

Thanks!

- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com
Visit Not the IG Website- http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 10:16:47
From: 2drapers <2drapers@infowest.com>
Subject: [none]

My local hobby shop went under last year, and the closest one is now two
hours away in Vegas.  It looks like a few of the IG items might be worth
picking up; can anyone recommend a mail order shop that is cheap, reliable,
and fast?

- -SD

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:10:42 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Chirper

At 02:33 PM 12/03/98 -0800, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>At 09:39 PM 3/12/98 +0000, you wrote:
>
>>>After all, the Solomani, though small in number, have influenced the
>>>Imperium greatly.  The dating system and the language are both Terran in
>>>origin...
>>
>>I agree. But not necessarily as deeply as they would like, especially in
>>the Imperial core. However, I suspect by the Civil War much of the Vilani
>>influence has gone, except for the region around Vland.
>
>Note that Emperor Zhukov broke the Solomani power at Court by marrying a
>Vilanni noblewoman in 666, IIRC.  This indicates that the Imperium up to
>that point was dominated by Solomani desended nobility.

According to MT's _Imperial Encyclopedia_ it was in 679. Note that Terra
had been incorporated in 588, and the Solomani Confederation was
established in 871. They were reintergrated into the Imperium in 950. The
Solomani Rim War started in 990 and finished in 1002.

IMO Solomani influence dates from the joining of Terra and the 3I.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 01:19:34 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Vilani Font

> Apparently, not. I have tried the above address, and then followed a
> painstaking route to Glenn's home page, but no luck. The server just
> blinked at me and the site contains no link to a font file that I could
> see. Glenn are you out there?

I just got it from the site mentioned by Kenji.  If for some reason you
can't get to it there, I'll attach it and send it to you.

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 01:28:49 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Vilani Font

> I don't know if this is still current... the versions above were
_drafts_,
> not final editions; IIRC they had only symbol assignments for the
lowercase
> letters a-z.  We discussed on TravLang a bit about how to use it to write
> Vilani, as opposed to Galanglic words... I'm not sure where further work
on
> the script has progressed.  And I'm not sure I'd tell a blatant robot
clone
> imposter, either... not that I'm pointing any fingers at anyone.

Wool you please stop?  It's shear idiocy.  I lamb _not_ a clone...

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:00:57 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #272

On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:03:13 -0500, you wrote:

>Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:37:06 +0000
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
>Subject: Re: Dark Star available at Hyperbooks
>
>Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote:
>
>
>>Whatever you think of Phil's Traveller opinions (and I know some of you
>>violently disagree with them), his magazine is definately worth this price
>>(assuming that the downloaded version can be printed).
>
>Provided the security options haven't been checked to prevent printout
>Acrobat should print them. Phil? Can you enlighten us?

Yep, these are fully printable versions. I have no problem printing them on a HP
DJ-670c (my 660c died the other week, but it printed on them, too). If any pages
do not print for *your*, I can even fiddle with the illustrations and see if I
can get them to ... or simply mail a copy of the offending page.

Phil

- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
YES! Dark Star is now available from Hyperbooks.com!
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:28:24 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Andy's back

Welcome back Andy!


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:24:48 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

- -> 7)  New York City (setting up that classic Charlton Heston scene in "Planet
- -> of the Apes" with the Statue of Liberty)
That'd be fun indeed!
- -> 
- -> 5)  Moscow, Bejing or Paris (negotiate with Sadaam, right!)
Why? It *did* prevent a war, didn't it? And considering the CNN-
propaganda failure last month, it probably was better for you guys as 
well! 
 
Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:11:32 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Chirper

"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:


>Note that Emperor Zhukov broke the Solomani power at Court by marrying a
>Vilanni noblewoman in 666, IIRC.  This indicates that the Imperium up to
>that point was dominated by Solomani desended nobility.

Sure. I see this as the point that the political power of the Solomani
nobles was broken. IMO [and being a pro-Solomani Activist doesn't mean I
like it ;-) ] the underlying Imperial culture was Vilani in a lot of the M0
core regions. The Solomani were a distinct group, mixed in better in some
areas than others.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:13:59 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:

> This is not about Traveller but I thought the list might  find it
> interesting.  Check out
> http://europe.cnn.com/TECH/space/9803/11/asteroid/index.html
> 
> Summary:
> 
> Asteroid found on near miss course with  Earth.  Designated  1997
> XF11, it should pass  just  under  30,000  miles  from  Earth  on
> October 26, 2028.  However, the estimate has a margin of error of
> more than 180,000 miles!  The chance of an  actual  collision  is
> small, but one is not entirely  out  of  the  question.
> 

   Top Ten Spots I'd Like to See the Asteroid Hit If It Were Coming *Tomorrow*

10) My ex-boss' house.

9)  Iraq (defy these sanctions Sadaam!)

8)  EuroDisney (once again, I must apologize...)

7)  New York City (setting up that classic Charlton Heston scene in "Planet
of the Apes" with the Statue of Liberty)

6)  Anywhere within 5 ft. of Bill Clinton, preferably while he is "training"
a new intern.

5)  Moscow, Bejing or Paris (negotiate with Sadaam, right!)

4)  Dennis Rodman's house (he would turn it into a fashion statement)

3)  The "parallel Earth" depicted in bad 1950s sci-fi movies

2)  Bill Gates' house (he would turn it into a design feature)

1)  Los Angeles (for more reasons than I can count, ideally with Beverly
Hills as "ground zero"...)

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:57:15 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Passenger and Freight Costs

Ian or Katts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I *think* Hans crunched out the numbers, and found for long-distance trade
jump-3 or -4 was optimal.

Jump-1 freighters get relegated to jumping between adjacent planets.

A side effect of this is the economic effects of jump-1 mains are
negligible, because the vast majority of trade is carried by jump-3 and -4
ships.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What if a large number of the Jump-1 ships have been completely paid off?
Remember that in TNE, many starships over a century old are still running
*without* access to regular and proper maintenance. If the lost-in-service rate
was low enough for all those Free and Far Traders out there (not to mention
the aging but reliable jump-1 superfreighters) then you might have some
economic viability for low-jump ships. 

Let's say you're moving lanthanum ore from a low-pop planet to a high-pop
planet. The mines can produce one shipload of ore a week. You have 
enough jump-1 bulk freighters on your paid-off list to have a ship show up
at the mines once a week, and move the lanthanum along a jump-1 main
to the high-pop planet. Once you have the pipeline started, you will have a 
cargo arrive at the high-pop world once a week. Yes, you could do it with
half (or less) as many high-jump freighters, but as long as the item isn't
perishable or time-sensitive these slowpokes will be much cheaper.
It would also be less attractive to pirates - they might grab a jump-3 ship
for the drives, would they bother with a jump-1 ship? Not to mention trade
route reliability - lose one of two slow ships, your trade slows down. Lose one
of one fast ships, your trade _stops_.

There's a reason coal mines ship their product by train and freighter instead
of by next-day air.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:24:09 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heros

Rob Prior wrote:

> I'd pay for some 25mm heros. (I used to use 15mm, but most of my figure
> collection is now 25mm.)

Its been a while.  Is 25mm scale 1 meter = 25 mm?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:01:28 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: The 'Joes' (was: IMTU Pronunciations)

On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:

> Someone wrote:
> > Zhodani: zho + d-ah-n' + ee
> > Zhodane: zho' + dane (as in Danish)
> 
> Not sure I agree with these ...
> 
> According  to  the  CT  Zhodani  alien  module:  "Zhodani"  is  a
> Galanglic  word  meaning  humans   from   Zhdant   (the   Zhodani
> homeworld).  It is composed  of  a  contraction  of  the  Zhodani
> "Zhdant" and the Galanglic "-ani" suffix.  The "-ani"  suffix  is
> "ah-n' + ee",  but  the  "Zhod"  root   should   follow   Zhodani
> pronounciation rules.  "Zh" is pronounced  as  "s"  is  "measure"
> (short "sh" sound),  thus  "Zho"  is  pronounced  not  "zoe"  but
> "show".  The "a" in "Zhdant"  is  pronounced  like  the  "oc"  in
> "lock" ... thus  "Zhdant"  is  pronounced  "sh-don-t".  Therefore
> "Zhodani" should be  pronounced  "show darn + ee"  (or  sometimes
> "show don + ee").   Zhdant  is  sometimes  written  "Zhodane"  in
> Galanglic texts and therefore would be pronounced "show dane".

Hmmmm... I remember that the Zhodani in the Frontier Wars were called the
'Joes' by Imperial People. (TNE Source, 'Reasons to hate the Joes').
It always speak it like Joe-dun-ee.
What a pity it's not possible to use phonetic symbols on the TML.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:10:24 +0000
From: "Paul Rocchi" <paul_rocchi@sns.ca>
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heroes Redux

Crossposted to MIB-L for consideration.

> > <<> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:29:37 -0800
> > > From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
> > > Subject: An idle thought...
> > > 
> > > So what are the odds that SJG might be re-releasing their old
> > > line of Cardboard Heroes for (GURPS) Traveller? That beats the
> > > heck out of waiting for someone to find / re-license molds for
> > > the CT-era metal figures.
> 
> The official word is that nothing is out of print permanently,
> although reality intervenes and prevents us from re-printing
> everything at once. 
>
> Everything to he who waits, as Hannibal Lector once said.
>
> By the way, please ignore that stuff I said about the grey thing on
> the back of my neck. 
>
> Loren Wiseman

Okay Loren.. but I got this direct from Steve himself while working 
the booth at GenCon last year (TOLD you I was a MiB).  The Cardboard 
Heroes, and the Car Wars City Blocks, while neat, aren't profitable 
enough per unit. thus, while not officially permanently out of print, 
they are not likely to be printed again. 

However, with the proliferation of Colour laser and inkjet printers, 
it should be possible to produce sheets of the original Cardboard 
Heroes, and possibly new ones as PDF or GIF files.  Such files could 
be provided as a free download to subscribers to the electronic 
version of Pyramid, and as a download for pay to all other users. 

The cost of setting up the new sheets would be art and layout only, 
no printing. Reprint sheets would have only the cost of layout. 
Costs of distribution and printing are borne directly by the 
customer, thanks to the net.  Indeed, if available to download from 
the pages of Pyramid Online, they're the direct descendant of the 
black and white Cardboard Heroes that were included as a bonus on the 
counter-weight to the subscripion card in two issues of the Space 
Gamer.

This might be a way both to get Cardboard heroes back into 
circulation, and a sales tool for Pyramid Online. Something that the 
paper version of Pyramid cannot, and will not, have.


Paul Rocchi  SNS Shared Network Services Inc.
Paul_Rocchi@sns.ca (Business)
procchi@Total.net (Personal)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:26:32 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: The 'Joes' (was: IMTU Pronunciations)

Lars Adler wrote:
> Hmmmm... I remember that the Zhodani in the Frontier Wars were called the
> 'Joes' by Imperial People. (TNE Source, 'Reasons to hate the Joes').
> It always speak it like Joe-dun-ee.
> What a pity it's not possible to use phonetic symbols on the TML.

Actually, Imperial epithets for Zhodani  include  "zho",  "joes",
"donny", "lank", and "punks".  Also "sike" or "psike".
(Source: JTAS9)

I always thought the "Joes" term was like the US  military  slang
"Charlie" for the VC in the Vietnam War.  (But you may be right.)



Regards PLST
"Let's have some new cliches." - movie mogul Samual Goldwyn
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:42:21 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: IMTU Pronunciations

Kenji wrote:
> trisen wrote:
> >Someone wrote:
> >> Zhodani: zho + d-ah-n' + ee
> >> Zhodane: zho' + dane (as in Danish)
> >
> >Not sure I agree with these ...
> >
> >According to the CT Zhodani alien module: "Zhodani" is a
> >Galanglic word meaning humans from Zhdant (the Zhodani
> >homeworld). It is composed of a contraction of the Zhodani
> >"Zhdant" and the Galanglic "-ani" suffix. The "-ani" suffix is
> >"ah-n' + ee", but the "Zhod" root should follow Zhodani
> >pronounciation rules. "Zh" is pronounced as "s" is "measure"
> >(short "sh" sound), thus "Zho" is pronounced not "zoe" but
> >"show".
>
> No offense, but I seriously doubt you pronounce the "s" in "measure" and
> and the "sh" in "show" identically. In every English dialect I've ever
<snip>

Wot you mean?  I speak real proper I do!  :-^

Okay, okay ... but cannon is the the Zhodani pronounce "Zh"  like
the "s" in "measure" (however you say that!), they pronounce  "o"
like the "o" in "lock", and they pronounce the "d" like  the  "d"
in "doll".  (Source: CT Alien Module 4)  This gives you ...

Zhodani: mea"s"ure + l"o"ck + "d"oll + "ah-n' + ee"

Now how do you represent the "s" in "measure" in ASCII?



Regards PLST
"Let's have some new cliches." - movie mogul Samual Goldwyn
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:56:03 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: gray things

Loren Wiseman types:
>By the way, please ignore that stuff I said about the grey thing on the back
>of my neck. 

    They latch on more to the side than the back.  Any rumors about gray
things on the back of necks is misinformation, I mean a rumor, no...it's a
actually leak from the White House and  blamed on Ken Star...hold
it...sorry the microchip implanted in my [removed by Templer mail host
monitor] is beeping, I gotta go.




- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot 
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:39:41 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

I do not know the dimensions, but if it's not to much trouble, can your
brother do them in 15mm as well as 25mm (or at least post a "how to convert"
article). This way they will be compatible with both Striker, and the 1/2"
squares deckplans.

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:37:25 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Cardboard Heroes

Steve Daniels wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Rob Prior wrote:

> I'd pay for some 25mm heros. (I used to use 15mm, but most of my figure
> collection is now 25mm.)

Its been a while.  Is 25mm scale 1 meter = 25 mm?

Bloo

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

25mm scale means a figure representing an "average human"
will be 25mm tall. Most of the "25mm" figures on the market today 
(especially Games Workshop's Warhammer/Warhammer 40K stuff)
call themselves 25mm but are actually closer to 28mm or 30mm - it made
the Warhammer stuff look more impressive compared to other people's
stuff on game tables.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:01:41 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Chirper

Doug Berry wrote:
> Note that Emperor Zhukov broke the Solomani power at Court by marrying a
> Vilanni noblewoman in 666, IIRC.  This indicates that the Imperium up to
> that point was dominated by Solomani desended nobility.

No, it indicates that the power elite were Solomani. The masses of the 
Imperium would have been mostly Vilani. There was a lot of intermariage 
and some Vilani families even changed their names and lifestyles to
become "Solomani-ized". But given that the Vilani lifespan is easily 
50% longer than the Solomani lifespan, that they've been breeding
across hundreds of worlds for thouands opf years longer than the 
Solomani and that we've no data to tell us that their birth rates
are any lower than Solomani birth rates (ever wonder what drove the
Vilani to the stars? 50% longer lifespan with the same birth rate
might just do it), I think it's a safe bet that in M0 almost everyone
is of possibly mixed) Vilani descent and that that remains true up until
the late 3I.

Ethan "Long time, no post" Henry
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #273
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, March 13 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 274



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Chirper
IG website (was:Re: Missions of State Review)
Re: IMTU Pronunciations
Re: An Idle Thought
Vilani play a friendly game of . . .  (was Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?)
Re: An Idle Thought
Re: Vilani play a friendly game of . . .  (was Re: God plays friendly game of...
Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth
Re: The 'Joes' (was: IMTU Pronunciations)
Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth
Re: Chirper
Re: Vilani play a friendly game of . . .  (was Re: God plays friendly game of...
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
World Politics
Whats new in Traveller
History Repeats Itself
Re: History Repeats Itself
HIWG DUES
HIWG Dues/fanzine

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:12:03 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

At 07:53 PM 3/12/98 -0500, Harold wrote:

>   Top Ten Spots I'd Like to See the Asteroid Hit If It Were Coming
*Tomorrow*

>8)  EuroDisney (once again, I must apologize...)

For what?  I'm many French would accept the complete devastion of France to
be rid of the Halls of the Mouse King.

>7)  New York City (setting up that classic Charlton Heston scene in "Planet
>of the Apes" with the Statue of Liberty)

Considering the mass and velocity of that rock, the scene would be Heston
finding a fine layer of copper evenly distrubted around the globe.

>6)  Anywhere within 5 ft. of Bill Clinton, preferably while he is "training"
>a new intern.

Only if Ken Starr is there taking notes.  There's an idea!  Have Starr call
the asteroid to testify!  It won't come near us.

>4)  Dennis Rodman's house (he would turn it into a fashion statement)

Dennis would make the rebound.

(Non-basketball fans.  A rebound is catching the ball after a missed shot
is made.  Dennis Rodman, one of the NBA's most.. colorful players, is also
one of the best rebounders ever.)
- --

  Douglas E. Berry                              dberry@hooked.net
             http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html
********************************************************************
Equation for finding the value of "chimp"                     .-"-.
                                                             /.-.-.\_
chimp=(a+x) + t6 (w+zm) - 4                                ( ( o o ) )
a is equal to the sum of the numbers in the current time     |/ " \|
(in military time) e.g. if the time is 17:22 then the value  \'---'/
of a=12, x is current temperature, t is # of turtles within  /`"""`\
one square mile (if any), w is size of wombat involved (in inches)
z is a reddish color, m is the ratio between your height relative
to the chimp in question.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:05:41 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Chirper

At 09:11 AM 3/13/98 +0000, you wrote:
>"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Note that Emperor Zhukov broke the Solomani power at Court by marrying a
>>Vilanni noblewoman in 666, IIRC.  This indicates that the Imperium up to
>>that point was dominated by Solomani desended nobility.
>
>Sure. I see this as the point that the political power of the Solomani
>nobles was broken. IMO [and being a pro-Solomani Activist doesn't mean I
>like it ;-) ] the underlying Imperial culture was Vilani in a lot of the M0
>core regions. The Solomani were a distinct group, mixed in better in some
>areas than others.

It was probably a situation similar to Europe in the late 19th Century.  A
small group (the various interelated royal families) ruled over much larger
populations with who they had very little in common.  Didn't England have a
King (one of the Georges?) who couldn't speak English?

An aggresive, Solomani dominated nobility might have resited the retaking
of Terra out of a simple fear that the homeworld might upstage their
standing.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:16:34 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: IG website (was:Re: Missions of State Review)

At 09:57 PM 3/12/98 -0600, you wrote:

>With that excellent review, I have decided to act upon one of my desires
>for the Not-the-IG Website.
>I would like to add comments and reviews of IG products.  For each
>product, a page of comments from the TML about the products strengths,
>weaknesses, usefulness, and compatibility with canon, as well as a general
>rating (from *must have* to *avoid like the plague*.)

Just to let you know, I'm changing my bookmarks to direct people to the
n-t-IG site rather than IG's site.

I went out there the other day, and somebody is still doing work on some
pages.  I saw a couple with revision dates from thios January.  Yet the
mail order pages is still up and running, and everything is horrendously
out of date!

What the hell is going on with these people?  From what i can tell, they
are still able to accept subscriptions for JTAS!

- --
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
)      Douglas E. Berry              dberry@hooked.net     (
(          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html        )
)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(
( A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any   )
) invention in human history--with the possible exceptions (
( of handguns and tequila.                                 )
)         Mitch Ratcliffe, Technology Review, April 1992   (
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:29:13 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: IMTU Pronunciations

Trisen wrote:

>> No offense, but I seriously doubt you pronounce the "s" in "measure" and
>> and the "sh" in "show" identically. In every English dialect I've ever
><snip>
>
>Wot you mean?  I speak real proper I do!  :-^

Ah, well... there goes your chance for linguistic immortality <G>

>
>Okay, okay ... but cannon is the the Zhodani pronounce "Zh"  like
>the "s" in "measure" (however you say that!), they pronounce  "o"
>like the "o" in "lock", and they pronounce the "d" like  the  "d"
>in "doll".  (Source: CT Alien Module 4)  This gives you ...
>
>Zhodani: mea"s"ure + l"o"ck + "d"oll + "ah-n' + ee"
>
>Now how do you represent the "s" in "measure" in ASCII?

In the two most commonly used ASCII adaptations of the IPA, the character
used for your voiced alveopalatal grooved fricative phoneme is Z.  Vowels
are tricky cross-dialectically in English, but the "o" seems to be a sort
of open mid back rounded critter -- O in ASCII IPA.  Hence, something like
/ZOdani/.

IIRC, there's a link to one ASCII IPA chart on the Travlang website:
 <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html> under "RESOURCES"

Paul Roser was working on analyzing/cooking up the phonologies of K'kree,
Trokh, and "Common Vargr", but I don't know how far he got...  before
insanity set in, or the Templars got him.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:23:20 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

Ok, I can't stay away from this one any longer, it is too close to a project
I've been toying with for a while. What would the reaction be to a set of
GOOD deckplans and discription, printed in either gray or full color? What
about the scale, is  25mm (1" squares approx.) better, or would 15mm
(traditional 1/2" squares) fit more peoples table top games. How much would
they be worth packaged with a card stock sheet of cardboard heroes? And most
importantly, does the list think there would be a market for such a product?
I'm concidering them as more of a genaric product at this point, not just
Traveller specific.

In most cases there would be 4+ sheets of plans in the package, printed on
11 x 17, 20 lb. (maybe slightly heavier) paper, a discription sheet, a
visual
key to ship components, and a card stock sheet of characters. They appear to
stand up very well if covered with clear lamination (you know the stick back
clear shelf liner paper).

Please let me know your opinons.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, March 13, 1998 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought


>I do not know the dimensions, but if it's not to much trouble, can your
>brother do them in 15mm as well as 25mm (or at least post a "how to
convert"
>article). This way they will be compatible with both Striker, and the 1/2"
>squares deckplans.
>
>Seth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:37:24 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Vilani play a friendly game of . . .  (was Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?)

Hey lets put blame in the right place.  This rock was turned our way by
Vilani rebels who have found a way to manipulate time and prevent the First
Interstellar War from every happening.

At 08:13 AM 3/13/98 -0500, Harold Hale wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
>
>> This is not about Traveller but I thought the list might  find it
>> interesting.  Check out
>> http://europe.cnn.com/TECH/space/9803/11/asteroid/index.html
>> 
>> Summary:
>> 
>> Asteroid found on near miss course with  Earth.  Designated  1997
>> XF11, it should pass  just  under  30,000  miles  from  Earth  on
>> October 26, 2028.  However, the estimate has a margin of error of
>> more than 180,000 miles!  The chance of an  actual  collision  is
>> small, but one is not entirely  out  of  the  question.

Actually over the next couple of years they will refine the orbit and then
proceed to scare the ba-jeebies out of everyone.

>   Top Ten Spots I'd Like to See the Asteroid Hit If It Were Coming
*Tomorrow*
>10) My ex-boss' house.

Don't know him.  Do you live within 20 miles?

>9)  Iraq (defy these sanctions Sadaam!)

And release all that anthrax?  The US would get blamed for it some how.

>8)  EuroDisney (once again, I must apologize...)

I'll give you that one . . .

>7)  New York City (setting up that classic Charlton Heston scene in "Planet
>of the Apes" with the Statue of Liberty)

I can see that.

>6)  Anywhere within 5 ft. of Bill Clinton, preferably while he is "training"
>a new intern.

But then Al Gore will become President.

>5)  Moscow, Bejing or Paris (negotiate with Sadaam, right!)

Good selection.  Maybe we can launch a weapon to keep it from hitting
Terra, which would actually fracture it into three smaller chunks . . .

>4)  Dennis Rodman's house (he would turn it into a fashion statement)

Rodman has a house??????

>3)  The "parallel Earth" depicted in bad 1950s sci-fi movies

It already hit it, we are next.

>2)  Bill Gates' house (he would turn it into a design feature)

No, the rock is powered by Windows95 and has to be rebooted every so often
making certain that it wont be running at the critical part of the reentry.

>1)  Los Angeles (for more reasons than I can count, ideally with Beverly
>Hills as "ground zero"...)

And just what did LA do to you????

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:08:20 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

This is a GREAT idea. I have not seen anything like that since Seeker games
made them. I remember that they made 15's and 25's, and they made ship's
boats, Scout/couriers, fat, free and far traders, SDBs, and lab ships among
others. I have the far and fat trader, the lab ship, and the SDB in 25mm. I
however, want to get rid of them, as I prefer 15's. I vaguely remember Seeker
doing some Traveller 2300 ships too. I am almost certain Seeker is gone, but
you might have to research about possible copyright problems. The last address
I have for them is:

Seeker Gaming Systems,
P.O. box 519, Mtn. Home, Id 83647-0519

Good Luck!

PS If this works out- I'll take 1 of each in 15mm.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:15:43 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani play a friendly game of . . .  (was Re: God plays friendly game of...

 Why hit LA....Because it EXISTS! :-) I had to say that, as my instinctual New
York hatred of the "left" coast flares up. That's why I can't stand Vegas. I
thought I was moving to the west, but it turns out it is a clone of LA-down to
the tract housing architecture-Ugh! Well at least I will have lovely beach
front property after the "big one" hits (earthquake), or the rock hits us.

All right, lets hear the anti-New York jokes from the tree huggers and
Hollywierd.... :-)

This is supposed to be good natured though...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:56:15 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth

In a message dated 3/12/98 7:12:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, cwebb@ctos.com
writes:

<< I suppose relating it to Traveller isn't a good idea, since the thread has
 been hashed out repeatedly.
 
 Christopher Webb
 cwebb@ctos.com >>

I would imagine on Oct 26, 1998, it's entirely possible the whole debate on
rocks from space could be settled (once for all!!!)  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:04:11 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

In a message dated 3/12/98 13:48:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, blueboy@bu.edu
writes:

<< > Seriously, the timing on this is kinda strange, what with 'asteroid' (or
 > whatever it is called) due out shortly.  I imagine there will be a lot of
public
 > interest in this for a short time, then everyone will ignore it for the
next
 > 29.5 years.
  >>

Is it perhaps possible that NASA already knows it's likely to hit Earth...and
is suppressing the info to avoid panic?  I remember many long discussions on
the subject of evacuating cities in the event of nuclear war...there were
proponents for evacuating and against it; both sides had legitimate points.
Could our government be trying to slowly work us up to the idea?  Or are they
just keeping the info secret?  Someone call Oliver Stone...:-)

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:10:38 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth

At 02:56 PM 3/13/98 -0500, Dusty wrote:
>I would imagine on Oct 26, 1998, it's entirely possible the whole debate on
>rocks from space could be settled (once for all!!!)  :-)

Ah, I think thats 2028, not 1998.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:11:06 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: The 'Joes' (was: IMTU Pronunciations)

In a message dated 3/13/98 8:28:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
trisen@postmaster.co.uk writes:

<< I always thought the "Joes" term was like the US  military  slang
 "Charlie" for the VC in the Vietnam War.  (But you may be right.)
  >>
I have heard of references where Marines are referred to as "joeys"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:13:42 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth

In a message dated 3/13/98 12:10:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, rwm@mpgn.com
writes:

<< >I would imagine on Oct 26, 1998, it's entirely possible the whole debate
on
 >rocks from space could be settled (once for all!!!)  :-)
 
 Ah, I think thats 2028, not 1998. >>


Oops...brainfart!  :-(

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:30:27 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

DustyLV769 wrote:

> In a message dated 3/12/98 13:48:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, blueboy@bu.edu
> writes:
>
> << > Seriously, the timing on this is kinda strange, what with 'asteroid' (or
>  > whatever it is called) due out shortly.  I imagine there will be a lot of
> public
>  > interest in this for a short time, then everyone will ignore it for the
> next
>  > 29.5 years.
>   >>
>
> Is it perhaps possible that NASA already knows it's likely to hit Earth...and
> is suppressing the info to avoid panic?  I remember many long discussions on
> the subject of evacuating cities in the event of nuclear war...there were
> proponents for evacuating and against it; both sides had legitimate points.
> Could our government be trying to slowly work us up to the idea?  Or are they
> just keeping the info secret?  Someone call Oliver Stone...:-)
>
> Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

 hmmm...

The asteroid is reported by independant sources, with the caveat that more
precise orbital information will require a longer period of study...

The JPL comes out later that same day and reports the 'roid will not hit
Earth...

Last week it was reported that significant water does indeed exist on the moon -
renewed interest in Lunar colonies after *supposedly* ignoring the moon for 25
years...

The Martian Explorer mission declared officially over weeks after the last
*reported* contact with the probe...

Unknown gr3y obj*cts s33n b4 83v3r@l TM7 m3mb3rs%%%
()#&^

#@!^^*$#

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:32:16 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth

DustyLV769 wrote:

> In a message dated 3/12/98 7:12:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, cwebb@ctos.com
> writes:
>
> << I suppose relating it to Traveller isn't a good idea, since the thread has
>  been hashed out repeatedly.
>
>  Christopher Webb
>  cwebb@ctos.com >>
>
> I would imagine on Oct 26, 1998, it's entirely possible the whole debate on
> rocks from space could be settled (once for all!!!)  :-)

 But will the TML be satisfied with anything less than a direct hit on Redmond?

:)

douglas


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:36:44 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Chirper

> No, it indicates that the power elite were Solomani. The masses of the 
> Imperium would have been mostly Vilani. There was a lot of intermariage 
> and some Vilani families even changed their names and lifestyles to
> become "Solomani-ized". But given that the Vilani lifespan is easily 
> 50% longer than the Solomani lifespan, that they've been breeding
> across hundreds of worlds for thouands opf years longer than the 
> Solomani and that we've no data to tell us that their birth rates
> are any lower than Solomani birth rates (ever wonder what drove the
> Vilani to the stars? 50% longer lifespan with the same birth rate
> might just do it), I think it's a safe bet that in M0 almost everyone
> is of possibly mixed) Vilani descent and that that remains true up until
> the late 3I.

Not entirely true.  If 50% of the citizens of the Third Imperium are
members of minor human races, then the majority would not be Vilani, at
least not racially, and probably not culturally.  Remember, there was a
Second Imperium and a Long Night between the Ziru Sirka and Cleon's
Imperium.  In some cases, the Vilani-influenced cultures would branch and
change, in other cases they'd probably go back to living with their own,
old, submerged culture.

By the time of the Third Imperium, you'd have all kinds of zany cultures
and situations around, and the homogeny of the Ziru Sirka will all but have
vanished.

As Dom said, I believe, the roots of the Western mode of thinking can be
traced back to the Romans, but nobody in the west lives exactly as the
Romans did.  Various cultures have branched off and exist and the
differences in the cultures can be downright amazing.  And that's only on
one planet!

The Grand Empire of the Stars takes to the stars, they deposit people on a
number of planets, and find people on others.  Vilani culture is imposed on
them, whether they like it or not.  The Ziru Sirka collapses, and the
Terrans now rule.  They impose their own cultural ideals over the ancient
Vilani ones.  Now, the Ramshackle Empire collapses, and interstellar trade
and travel begins to trickle to almost nothing.  Pocket Empires, with their
own agendas and cultural ideals spring up, some planets are left to
themselves, some worlds die off entirely.  Then you have the Third
Imperium, with a "hands off" policy towards individual member worlds.  That
is to say, they force very few Imperial standards on the populations of
their member worlds.

What this means:  The further out from Vland, the less likely that the
citizens will act like Vilani.  It doesn't mean that they'll act like
Solomani, just means that they'll act less and less like Vilani.  Their
language will possibly have Vilani roots, but, it will probably sound
considerably different.  Individual worlds will be different, and mostly
unique.  The cornerstone of Vilani culture, the shugili, will be no longer
as strongly needed, or the role will change considerably.  Child rearing
and family situations may be similar, but many worlds will have
differences, some subtle, and some drastic.

By the time of the late Imperium (for the sake of argument) a certain
amount of standardization has taken place as a result of trade throughout
the Imperium.  The Third Imperium will use the Office of Calendar
Compliance to set certain standards (power cords, data interchange formats,
etc.) so that general efficiency is increased.  Megacorporations will
create other standards, culturally and technologically. Individual member
worlds will still have their own cultures and quirks, but they will be set
against a backdrop of homogenized Impie culture.

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:41:54 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Vilani play a friendly game of . . .  (was Re: God plays friendly game of...

Personally, I'd like to see this giant asteroid hit Roger Ebert.  Not
because of his movie reviews, but because a friend of mine rented out
"Beyond the Valley of the Dolls" and I was forced to watch it the other
night...

Ugh...

"This is my happening, and it freaks me out!"

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:56:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Volker A. Greimann writes:

>- -> 5)  Moscow, Bejing or Paris (negotiate with Sadaam, right!)
>Why? It *did* prevent a war, didn't it? And considering the CNN-
>propaganda failure last month, it probably was better for you guys as 
>well! 
 
   Did it prevent a war, or merely delay it, ensuring that when it does
happen, it will be even bigger and nastier than it would have been otherwise?  

   I'm also unclear when the best time would be to stop Sadaam, before or
after some his his minions use biological weapons on a major city (perhaps
even in Europe), killing hundreds of thousands or even millions...

   No, the governments of France, Russia and the People's Republic of China
are merely trying to keep a good customer around by advocating appeasement.
Were it not for Sadaam's various purchases from these countries (many since
the Gulf War), they could care less if Iraq were turned into a glass parking
lot by the US.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:12:40 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: World Politics

Lets watch the world politics thread since it ain't got jack to do with
Traveller.

Thanks
Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:28:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@unipress.com>
Subject: Whats new in Traveller

Hi: 

I haven't subscribed to this mailing list for awhile, so whats new in
Traveller? Has Imperium Games published anything with a TL > 13 recently? 

Matthew

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:30:09 +0000
From: "Paul Rocchi" <paul_rocchi@sns.ca>
Subject: History Repeats Itself

Ken Whitman wrote, in rec.games.frp.misc: 

> Dear Dark Conspiracy Fans,

>  As you know Archangel is a new company, and as a new company we want
>  to do things right.  In our quest to put out DC 2nd edition we have
>   discovered that printing the Player's Handbook and the Referee's
>  Guide at the same time will cost over $18,000.  Because of this
>  enormous print cost we need your help!
>
>  We are asking DC Fans to pre-order both the Player's Handbook and
>  the Referee's Guide from us via Visa or Mastercard.  The total cost
>  of both books will be $40 (shipping included).  We want to process
>  your cards 30 days before the product ships (April 1st) so we can
>  pay our printers.
>
>  Whereas we do not need to raise the full $18,000, every little bit
>  helps. So if you help us out, we will make sure your books are
>  signed by Lester Smith and that they arrive to you before the games
>  hit the stores. If you are interested you can find this special
>  program under the DC section on our website at 
>  http://www.archangelent.com/dc.html or call us at 414-248-7189.
>
>  Thanx,
>  Ken Whitman
>  President/Archangel Entertainment

Ken Whitman.. Formerly with Imperium Games. Who also requested that
customers pre-order their products.

Imperium Games is now "catching their breath" from publishing so many
traveller products in such a short while. However, many of the writers
who did work for their magazine, cancelled afer two issues, are being
asked to take payment of 10% of what was originally to be paid to
them.   Many Imperium Games customers were chaged for product long
before it shipped to them.  Some were billed for proucts that never
arrived, or, indeed, have not yet been printed.

Just a note. It's illegal to process a credit card order for a product
unless it is immediately shipped. In short, Archangel's plan to
process before the product ships by 30 days is against the law.

There were a lot of complaints about Imperium Games' business
practices with respect to credit cards.. and now it looks like Ken is
repeating the cycle with Archangel.

I begin to feel very uncomfortable with this "offer" and suggest that
you wait until the product is Shipping to purchase it.
Paul Rocchi  SNS Shared Network Services Inc.
Paul_Rocchi@sns.ca (Business)
procchi@Total.net (Personal)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:27:44 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: History Repeats Itself

If this is indeed true, than report his ass to the Postmaster General for wire
fraud. However, please be %1000 percent this is correct before reporting him.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:46:35 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: HIWG DUES

	For those parties interested HIWG dues will be $10 for 6 issues (or 1 year,
whichever comes first) of the fanzine.
	Submissions to the fanzine are welcome. Things desired would be short 1-2
page adventures. Subsector write-ups with some Library Data. Equipment and
Vehicle write-ups. World write-ups, etc.....
	All rules sets and Melieu's will be supported.
	Interested parties should contact ClayRbush@aol.com


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:13:06 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: HIWG Dues/fanzine

		For those parties interested HIWG dues will be $10 for 6 issues (or 1 year,
whichever comes first) of the fanzine.
	Submissions to the fanzine are welcome. Things desired would be short 1-2
page adventures. Subsector write-ups with some Library Data. Equipment and
Vehicle write-ups. World write-ups, etc.....
	All rules sets and Melieu's will be supported.
	Interested parties should contact ClayRbush@aol.com


Bryan

P.S.	BTW, these are U.S. dues. Dues for other countries might vary.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #274
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, March 13 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 275



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: An Idle Thought
Travel Costs
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: An Idle Thought
life imitates TML (real world asteroid scenario)
Passenger and freight costs
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Stuff for Traveller
Re: An Idle Thought
Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: IMTU Pronunciations
Re: Some language questions
Animals in judgement
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
3D strategy
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Cardboard Heros
Re: IG website (was:Re: Missions of State Review)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 98 17:15:20 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

On 03/13/98 at 03:04 PM,  DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com> said:

>Is it perhaps possible that NASA already knows it's likely to hit
>Earth...and is suppressing the info to avoid panic?  

Nah!  NASA probably already knows it *won't* hit Earth and is suppressing
that info.  Why?  Just think of the boost in funding if enough taxpayers
get worried about rocks falling on their heads and start complaining about
itto their Congresscritters!  NASA will do just about anything to keep the
green milk flowing from the government's tit. ;->

Say, did you hear the arguement yesterday between NASA and the DOD over who
would be in charge of "doing something about the asteriod."  A DOD
spokes-dweeb said is was NASA's responsibility because it was in space and
a NASA flack replied that while they would study and investigate the
phenomenon a mile wide rock striking the Earth was surely a Defense matter.
Hee! Hee! 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:46:11 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Eris Reddoch wrote:

>itto their Congresscritters!  NASA will do just about anything to keep the
>green milk flowing from the government's tit. ;->

Just for the record, the Sayat have normal human _Red_ hemoglobin, chock
full of iron.  Not that damn green coppery space-opera crap, ta very much.

>Say, did you hear the arguement yesterday between NASA and the DOD over who
>would be in charge of "doing something about the asteriod."  A DOD
>spokes-dweeb said is was NASA's responsibility because it was in space and
>a NASA flack replied that while they would study and investigate the
>phenomenon a mile wide rock striking the Earth was surely a Defense matter.
>Hee! Hee!

The birth squalls of the Ramshackle Empire...

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:01:32 -0600 ()
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

>Ok, I can't stay away from this one any longer, it is too close to a project
>I've been toying with for a while. What would the reaction be to a set of
>GOOD deckplans and discription, printed in either gray or full color? What
>about the scale, is  25mm (1" squares approx.) better, or would 15mm
>(traditional 1/2" squares) fit more peoples table top games. How much would
>they be worth packaged with a card stock sheet of cardboard heroes? And most
>importantly, does the list think there would be a market for such a product?
>I'm concidering them as more of a genaric product at this point, not just
>Traveller specific.


I think it would be a good idea, but rather than print them out they would
be, IMO, more useful as electronic publications. Say as .pdf files on 3.5"
disks if not over the net. Less overhead for you too (which, theoretically
at least, means a higher profit margin). Of course, there is that piracy
thing -- but if people really want to pirate them, they could just scan the
images to replicate them anyay.

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:52:32
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Travel Costs

>Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:18:24 -0800
>From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
>Subject: Re: Passenger and Freight costs
>
>At 01:17 AM 3/12/98 +0000, Ian wrote:
>>Now, take a buisinessman travelling a Jump-1. He earns triple avaerage
>>wages on his world (i.e. Cr 60 000 a year). The saving on travelling Coach
>>vs Middle Passage is still about Cr 2500, or two weeks income for this
>>quite wealthy individual.
>
>How did you get 20K as the average income?  I have been getting roughly
>10K, based on PE and TCS.
>

The example concerned a darn rich, late-Empire world. For worlds with ICr
5-8 000 (far more 'normal'), our businessman would have to be even more
wealthy, relativly speaking (an income of 60 000 a year implies wealth of
around MCr 2, assuming a 3% rate of interest).

>(IMTU, planets all tend to gravitate within a century to within three tech
>levels of the biggest power nearby.  Much more, and the big power scents
>competition, while much lower indicates darn little worth sending.)

Makes sense to me, especially given the uplift rules in PE.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 23:01:48 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

On 13 Mar 98, Douglas Glatz disseminated foul capitalist propaganda 
by writing:

[...]
> The asteroid is reported by independant sources, with the caveat
> that more precise orbital information will require a longer period
> of study...
> 
> The JPL comes out later that same day and reports the 'roid will not
> hit Earth...

Heh. "Hot fudge sundae hits the Earth in thursdae"? 
JPL. Asteroid. Won't hit the Earth. 

Somebody call Niven and Pournelle. I want that future scrying device. 
;>

[...]
> Unknown gr3y obj*cts s33n b4 83v3r@l TM7 m3mb3rs%%%
> ()#&^
> 
> #@!^^*$#

<Fnord> He talked to much, anyway. </Fnord>

ObTrav: Eeeeee... Errr... Hmmm... Anybody? 


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
  Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+ 
  PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
    Thank God I'm an atheist. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:41:57 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

Well, this idea has also been discussed. However, what I am thinking of is
full sized prints, as I said. What I have been using is printed on tabloid
size paper (11" x 17") which, even given current printer costs, very few
people have the facilitied to print for them selves. Less than the problem
with piracy is formating the plans to print in a usable form on smaller
(letter size 8.5" x 11") paper. Taping together 2 sheet as opposed to 4
 most plans I've used involve approx 2 sheets of tabloid for even the
smallest starship in 25mm, per deck). But I am still open to this as an
alternative. What is the concensus on this?

I appologise for asking blatantly commercial questions on the open list, but
the thread was just too tempting not to hop in! Please feel free to answer
privately at the adress below if people think this is inappropriate. And
thanks for the feed back.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Joseph R. Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Friday, March 13, 1998 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought


>I think it would be a good idea, but rather than print them out they would
>be, IMO, more useful as electronic publications. Say as .pdf files on 3.5"
>disks if not over the net. Less overhead for you too (which, theoretically
>at least, means a higher profit margin). Of course, there is that piracy
>thing -- but if people really want to pirate them, they could just scan the
>images to replicate them anyay.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:00:13 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: life imitates TML (real world asteroid scenario)

> From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
> 
> Is it perhaps possible that NASA already knows it's likely to hit Earth...and
> is suppressing the info to avoid panic?  I remember many long discussions on

That's really looooong range planning -- thirty years ahead is way far
in the future for an American organization.  Who knows how technology
will change in thirty years, anyway -- this might not be a real problem
by then.  Anyway, I'll be 70 years old by Halloween 2028, so whatever
with the rock.  

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 00:10:41
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Passenger and freight costs

>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
>Subject: Passenger and Freight Costs
>

>What if a large number of the Jump-1 ships have been completely paid off?
>Remember that in TNE, many starships over a century old are still running
>*without* access to regular and proper maintenance. If the lost-in-service
rate
>was low enough for all those Free and Far Traders out there (not to mention
>the aging but reliable jump-1 superfreighters) then you might have some
>economic viability for low-jump ships. 
>

OK. What we are talking about is the second thing I said - you would get a
reduction in the "book value" of the ships. Rather than saying "Dammit,
this ship cost us MCr60, so thats what it's worth", you say "Ah well. This
ship cost us MCr 60, but it takes three times as long to carry the cargo to
the marketworld, so it only makes 15 runs a year, so it is really worth
MCr20. We need to notify the shareholders of the MCr 40 markdown in our net
worth".

The core guy to read on this sort of stuff IMO is Sraffa, incidentally. 

>Let's say you're moving lanthanum ore from a low-pop planet to a high-pop
>planet. The mines can produce one shipload of ore a week. You have 
>enough jump-1 bulk freighters on your paid-off list to have a ship show up
>at the mines once a week, and move the lanthanum along a jump-1 main
>to the high-pop planet. Once you have the pipeline started, you will have a 
>cargo arrive at the high-pop world once a week. Yes, you could do it with
>half (or less) as many high-jump freighters, but as long as the item isn't
>perishable or time-sensitive these slowpokes will be much cheaper.
>It would also be less attractive to pirates - they might grab a jump-3 ship
>for the drives, would they bother with a jump-1 ship? Not to mention trade
>route reliability - lose one of two slow ships, your trade slows down.
Lose one
>of one fast ships, your trade _stops_.

Will it be cheaper to use, say, three Jump-1 ships rather than one jump-3
ship that does the run in one-third the time ?

Certainly, if you are using obsolete ships you already own, but over time
these will fall apart and be replaced by more modern, high-jump ships. Once
this happens, and you have to outlay hard cash for a new ship, I think the
economically sensible thing is to bite the bullet and buy a fast freighter.

The piracy issue is IMO very very marginal - for a start, piracy will be
about as common in the 3I as it is today. For seconds, the bigger power
plant required by the jump-3 drive gives you a nice big chunky power
surplus over what your 1G drive requires, which can easily be used for
weapons. Jump-1/1G ships have a less impressive power curve, and thus have
to either dedicate space and mass to batteries to provide combat power, or
purchase a bigger power plant than required.

>
>There's a reason coal mines ship their product by train and freighter instead
>of by next-day air.

Thats related to the radically lower cost of rail and sea freight vis a vis
air freight. The cost differential between jump-1 and jump-4 ships isnt
anywhere near as extreme.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 02:18:03 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

>    Did it prevent a war, or merely delay it, ensuring that when it does
> happen, it will be even bigger and nastier than it would have been otherwise?
No one can tell for sure, but one thing we do see over here in europe,
is that the US government was a bit over the top here. I dont know what
your "news" said, but the danger wasnt seen as big over here. The
general opinion was that the palaces were probably no hideaways for
chemical weapons, or couldnt be and that if Saddam had any, they would
be someplace else. Rather the general feeling was that this was just a
pretext. Now i wont say that your president was trigger-happy, but it
did seem a tad too convenient, didnt it? Just when he has problems at
home, distract the public. Most Europeans felt that this crisis wasnt
about Saddam H., but about pres. Clintons inability to secure his
homefront otherwise. As i recall, even a large part of the US-public
felt that way (see: CNN/US Govt - PR-Disaster). 

> 
>    I'm also unclear when the best time would be to stop Sadaam, before or
> after some his his minions use biological weapons on a major city (perhaps
> even in Europe), killing hundreds of thousands or even millions...
Why? Just because he has the weapons doesnt necessarily mean hell use
them. You have weapons like these, even worse, as well. So what? Do we
need to strike down upon the US to force them to destroy those weapons? 

> 
>    No, the governments of France, Russia and the People's Republic of China
> are merely trying to keep a good customer around by advocating appeasement.
Or they are just trying to promote peace, or at least let the diplomats
have a go first, which proved to work, at least for now. UN-demands were
fulfilled, so there was no reason for a strike anymore. Period!

> Were it not for Sadaam's various purchases from these countries (many since
> the Gulf War), they could care less if Iraq were turned into a glass parking
> lot by the US.
Nope. The US cares less. We are practically neigbours, we have an
imminent desire for peace in that region, for increased turmoil will
worsen the refugee situation and cause trouble for us. You wont fell
much of that, but we will. We also cant risk Saddam becoming a martyr
for the fundamentalists, because that would mean even more danger for
our interests. When you were planning the strike, Iran and Iraq started
to find their similarities and started to form a relationship. THAT
scared the shit out of us! An attack by the US (and it would have been a
US-operation, no matter what they would have claimed) would have
worsened that situation as well.


- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
*Volker A. Greimann...Am Weidengraben 86, C6...54296 Trier*
********http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061*********
****grei5001@uni-trier.de* or try * greimann@geocities.com****
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:52:58 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Stuff for Traveller

In a message dated 98-03-03 09:34:56 EST, you write:

<< 
  Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
  >>

(private)

Can you re-email me you proposal for producing Classic electronically?

Please address to 

HeartPub@aol.com

Thanks,

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:25:50 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

>Well, this idea has also been discussed. However, what I am thinking of is
>full sized prints, as I said. What I have been using is printed on tabloid
>size paper (11" x 17") which, even given current printer costs, very few
>people have the facilitied to print for them selves. Less than the problem
>with piracy is formating the plans to print in a usable form on smaller
>(letter size 8.5" x 11") paper. Taping together 2 sheet as opposed to 4
> most plans I've used involve approx 2 sheets of tabloid for even the
>smallest starship in 25mm, per deck). But I am still open to this as an
>alternative. What is the concensus on this?



Would reducing the scale to 15mm (as some have suggested) solve this
problem?

IMO,
I might pay for pre-printed deck plans, depending on their cost and quality.
However, with printing costs what they are these days, I am afraid the items
would be priced at more than I would be willing to spend. I just cannot
force myself to shell out $20+ US for Emperor's Arsenal, for example (I have
not bought any IG products, even the reportedly good stuff, because of their
pricing).

Anyway, I like the idea of electronic deck plans because with Illustrator or
Photoshop I can resize them or alter them any way I want. But that's just my
'ferinstance. :-)

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

"Guns don't kill people ... but they make it reeeaaal easy."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:06:18 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

>Andrew Smith wrote:
>
>First off Andrew, I'm not picking a fight, just making comments as I see
>them. OK

I do apologise too. After I posted I realised some of my sentences were
somewhat prickly. Not my intention at all. Thanks for being more adult than
I was. :-)


8<

>I say again, it will depend on the DM and his gaming style. I like what
>I have seen, will cheerfully recommend it to any who are interested, and
>will continue to fudge MTU into my 3D universe on whatever terms I deem
>are right. So can you.

Again, I agree. It's a matter of what you decide is important. And this
thread has been good for one thing: it's made me think harder about 3D
strategy. My campaign is set in a volume which is pretty easy to cross as
there are a preponderance of routes through junk systems. At first glance
this suggests keeping the balance of sector forces in reserve, scattering
SDBs as harrassment forces everywhere, and playing submarines with your war
fleets. Any other ideas?
>
>Jim
>Have fun in 3D

Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:58:32 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

In a message dated 3/13/98 17:41:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, grei5001@uni-
trier.de writes:

<<     I'm also unclear when the best time would be to stop Sadaam, before or
 > after some his his minions use biological weapons on a major city (perhaps
 > even in Europe), killing hundreds of thousands or even millions...
 Why? Just because he has the weapons doesnt necessarily mean hell use
 them. You have weapons like these, even worse, as well. So what? Do we
 need to strike down upon the US to force them to destroy those weapons? 
  >>

Volker, 
     
     Have you any evidence that the US has ever used a biological agent
against anyone?  Saddam Hussien has repeatedly...and against his own people,
at that.  
Over here, we don't generally let convicted felons carry guns...which doesn't
aways stop them from doing so, granted;  but the penalties are very harsh
indeed for doing so.  Saddam has demonstrated he can't be trusted to play
nice...so it's time to take his toys away from him and send him to his room
(Iraq) until he can be a good boy.

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 03:23:44 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

> Volker,
> 
>      Have you any evidence that the US has ever used a biological agent
> against anyone?  Saddam Hussien has repeatedly...and against his own people,
> at that.
I know that and wasnt implying any similarities (Although you did use
nukes, napalm, and other anti-civilian weapons in your time, but leave
that out for now).
However this wasnt about guns or chem-weaps. It was about the Prezs
private bedroom manners, and that is what stank about this affair. There
was no prrof that he had his weapons in these buildings, yet the US were
willing to go to war over that.  

> Saddam has demonstrated he can't be trusted to play
> nice...so it's time to take his toys away from him and send him to his room
> (Iraq) until he can be a good boy.
Better letting him have his toys than having a new martyr. The lesser of
two evils is still an evil, but better than a worse one.
Anyway this isnt about playing nice, this is about power. The us has
the power to make iraq regret anything they do, theyd be stupid to try
anything. On the other hand, nothing is done when in china, peaceful
protestors are rolled down by tanks, no liberation forces try to free
tibet. You are using one measurement here and another there. Hussein was
one of the closest allies to the us not 15 years back, with the very
same proactices on his side. Only then, it was in the USs interest to
keep him in power. You build him up, but you cant destroy him. 
Anything you try against Saddam will only hurt the civilian population,
in the long run. That is why war is no real solution to this problem,
but diplomacy was!
I am not defending Hussein here, i am just saying that France and Russia
were right in favoring a peaceful settlement.



- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
*Volker A. Greimann...Am Weidengraben 86, C6...54296 Trier*
********http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061*********
****grei5001@uni-trier.de* or try * greimann@geocities.com****
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:33:02 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: IMTU Pronunciations

Jim Cooper wrote:

>Kenji
>
>That's a really good idea and theme. And they doubted your genius.
>Not me. Never for a minute.

Really?  You didn't?  <preen>  You shall be richly rewarded for your wisdom
and perspicacity and fine toadying skills once my cunning scheme to wholly
abolish the real world and replace it with the TML comes to fruition.


Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:33:17 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Some language questions

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>> Low-ASCII IPA transcriptions of my own pronunciations:
>> Droyne       [dr.Ojn]
>> Solomani     [soLomA'ni]
>> Zhodani      [ZodA'ni]
>> Vilani       [vILA'ni]
>> Yaskodray    [kTu'Lhu]
>                ^^^^^^^
>That's a pretty poor attempt at properly prouncing the Name, even given
>the limits of human vocal apparatus.

Yes; but you'll notice that the list didn't "mysteriously crash" again when
I posted it, and then come back up with certain list members showing
peculiar _changes_...

You all realize, of course, that it's not the Templars or NASA or the
Gnomes of Zurich who are actually manipulating Terran history towards
eventual interstellar dominance -- it's the International Phonetic Alphabet
cabal.  For the last 120 years the best minds in the Western world have
been fine-tuning a qabbalistic reactionless jump-drive-based form of Virus,
disguised as a phonological notation system... also handy for teaching
loathsome diabolical chants and incantations to naive aliens...

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 98 23:23:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.geis.com
Subject: Animals in judgement

    Many thanks to all who participated and helped out in the Planetary Inertia
thread.  I personally felt like an idiot when someone brought up the structure
bit about that planetary cracking like an egg shell before moving.  Should have
remembered that!
    In any case the lady in question was dutifully impressed and slightly
worried that there was place where people could actually answer that question
with such ease and in such number.  I didn't have the heart to tell her of some
of the wackier stuff we do around here.  I figure to disillusion her gently
STS!  But onto the subject...!

    I just saw that film, "The Advocate" is the title I believe, about the
lawyer in Dark Ages France who has to defend a pig in a court of law.  That
first scene where they're about to hang a man and a cow and the villagers get
the cow off and they go ahead and hang the man is going to be appearing in my
campaign shortly!  But I thought I'd ask the lawyers on the list if they know
when the practice of holding animals liable before the law ended?  And what the
legal justification for it was?

    In Traveller it makes a strange kind of sense because any low tech society
with a spaceport on the planet is going to have a fair number of aliens passing
through to astound the locals.  You can just imagine the impact of a couple of
K'kree passing through on a herding culture.  Especially in the herdsmen got an
earful of the K'kree on meat eaters!  You can just imagine the suspicion and
paranoia such a visit would have culturally on these folks the next time they
took a look at their herds!
    But this sort of thing would make for some great local color if someone
wants to use it.  After all it's Traveller!  The next planet over is supposed
to be strangely different. ;)

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:36:44 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Hello Folks,
  The reason I am responding to this is because originally, I desired to
reply to the German in one corner of the list who was responding to an
American in another corner of the list...
  
  Then it hit me.  This is supposed to be about Traveller, and traveller
related topics.  The moment we get into Politics and/or religion, we are
straying from the topic matter, and wandering into emotionally divisive
grounds.

  Personally, I find comments regarding CNN's existance as a propoganda
organ for the United states offensive.  However, the people of this list
are entitled to their own opinions, so I won't argue that.  However, I do
ask that others refrain from continually pressing on with this kind of
material on the mailing list - not because it offends me per se, but
because it has the potential to stir up some ugly feelings, and *that* is
why I think this thread should end NOW.  Can we nip this before it gets
out of hand?

       Respectfully submitted,
         Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:41:52 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: 3D strategy

Hello Folks,
  With respect towards dealing with patrolling 3D, one thought that occurs
to me is to place the crew in low berths or on FAST drug, and then
powering down.  Have the main patrol craft stand patrol, or even have an
automated system do the "patroling".  Then, the semi-mothballed ships with
crews on them, can come to life and start to nail enemy ships at times
that are advantageous.  This would reduce the cost of patroling perhaps?

     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:09:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

In mail you write:

> Sethkimmel wrote:
>
>> Boy, I'm glad I live in Vegas (2000 ft above sealevel) :-).

>  You know...if God is about to drop a rock on us - Las "sin city" Vegas may 
> not necessarily be the best place to be!  :)

Heck, I think there are places God is *far* more displeased with. I
wouldn't want to be anywhere near Jerry Falwell!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:06:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heros

In mail you write:

>
>
> Rob Prior wrote:
>
>> I'd pay for some 25mm heros. (I used to use 15mm, but most of my figure
>> collection is now 25mm.)
>
> Its been a while.  Is 25mm scale 1 meter = 25 mm?

No. 25mm = "normal height" of a man.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:28:08 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: IG website (was:Re: Missions of State Review)

> I went out there the other day, and somebody is still doing work on some
> pages.  I saw a couple with revision dates from thios January.  Yet the
> mail order pages is still up and running, and everything is horrendously
> out of date!
> What the hell is going on with these people?  From what i can tell, they
> are still able to accept subscriptions for JTAS!

SuzD looks surprised that this is news...

My email address is linked to that website as 'Trav Chat 
coordinator'. I get polite requests, irritable requests and flames 
from people who can't connect to IG's Chat Server. Unfortunately, I 
never hear from them again after I politely explain that we've moved 
*back* to Undernet. Sigh.

Suz

p.s.  The designer of the new Traveller MUD will be joining us for 
TravIRC on Thursday, March 19th! More details to follow...



 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #275
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Saturday, March 14 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 276



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Solomani Rim Information
IMTU Pronunciations
Re: Starship expenses
Re: Traveller Stuff for Sale
Re: Vilani Font
Re: Anti-Psi
Re: Travel Costs
Re: General Quarters Procedure (fwd)
Re: Cardboard Heroes Redux
Re: An Idle Thought
Re: IMTU Pronunciations
Re: IMTU Pronunciations
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Cardboard Heros
MOTU Pronounciations
Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
[none]
Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth
Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth
Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
Re: SD Mooney - thank you

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:38:54 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Solomani Rim Information

I am looking for info on the Solomani Rim.

I am working on putting together a campaign set in the Sol Rim, but I don't
have a lot of information. Basically, all I have is from the MT boxed set,
Rebellion Sourcebook and Rats and Cats. Thanks to Jim V and Galactic, I have
maps to the Sol Rim. Has anyone done write-ups for any of the worlds? I
can't find much information on the Vegan's.

I am thinking about making a spy/espionage type campaign. The characters may
be ISS agents (Imperial Secret Service) (if you've never heard about the
ISS, then their doing their job well)  :)  The characters may be independent
agents working for the imperial government. Missions would include
excursions into Solomani Space.

Anything would be helpful. I'm not sure what is in the Alien Module:
Solomani. Is there anything interesting I might in there? Anyone have this
and willing to sell or copy it for me?

Thanks,
Shawn Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:57:03 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: IMTU Pronunciations

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote

> Jim Cooper wrote:

> >And they doubted your genius.
> >Not me. Never for a minute.

> Really?  You didn't?  <preen>  You shall be richly rewarded for your wisdom
> and perspicacity and fine toadying skills once my cunning scheme to wholly
> abolish the real world and replace it with the TML comes to fruition.

<said in my best Eddie Haskel voice> My, that's a cunning plan Kenji,
please tell we unworthy followers of your genius some more, and brighten
up our otherwise drab and wretched lives.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:46:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

In mail you write:

> If the high prices are due to mandatory insurance for
                                ^^^^^^^^^
> accident/medical/pirates/kidnapping/allergies whatever and that you're
> required to have them if you want to use the Imperium wide High/Mid/Low
> passage system then traders that don't pay them will perhaps pay 100 Cr a
> week instead (10 Cr / week for LowPssg) but have a real hard time finding
> passengers.
>
> I don't really see what is wrong with this idea.

If the insurance is mandatory, then it is required by the *government*.
Which means that those traders not paying are breaking the law. And in
a quite obvious manner, as the payments would have to be registered
*before* the ship left. 

Mind you, this would also require *far* too much tracking of
passengers. 

On the other hand, it's also possible that the insurance is mandatory,
but as with mandatory collision insurance here, you can get away with
skipping it as long as you don't have an accident. If you *do* have an
accident and you've skipped insurance, you could easily lose the ship!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:39:39 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Stuff for Sale

I thought I'd let interested parties know that I have a running
account of the bids on Lane's stuff up on the web:

http://www.rt66.com/~merrick/Lane/lanesale.html

I plan on a last call of Monday (in case people only have week day
email) at midnight Mountain time. 

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:10:36 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani Font

> Wool you please stop?  It's shear idiocy.  I lamb _not_ a clone...
> Chris

See he admits he is not a clone.  But, as everyone knows clones cannot tell
the truth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 09:35:21 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Anti-Psi

ROFL!!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Anders Backman <anders.backman@aniware.se>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, March 12, 1998 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Anti-Psi


>>>So does this mean that there is such a thing as negative ability?
>>
>>I have read that some Psi researchers postulate such negative abilities.
It is
>>an explanation for why the results go _way_ down if a skeptic (someone who
>>doeas not believe in psi abilities) is involved in the testing.
>
>Is this the same force that seem to deflect UFOs away from nonbelievers?
>
>
>/Anders Backman
>Aniware AB
>anders.backman@aniware.se
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:11:06 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Travel Costs

In article <3.0.2.16.19980312155232.30ff4b4e@mail.orac.net.au>,
Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote:
>
>The example concerned a darn rich, late-Empire world. For worlds with ICr
>5-8 000 (far more 'normal'), our businessman would have to be even more
>wealthy, relativly speaking (an income of 60 000 a year implies wealth of
>around MCr 2, assuming a 3% rate of interest).

This may be valid Traveller maths, but it's crap real world economics

For instance, I currently earn over 60K a year, but my assets are nowhere
near even 0.5M, and I also have about 100K-odd in liabilities.

- - 
Frankie
    

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:35:12 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: General Quarters Procedure (fwd)

In article <m0yDKEM-0007iXC@bakunin>,
kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne) wrote:
>Moin Andrew Akins,
>
>> a) Crew into vacc suits - at higher TLs, this one is easy, because vacc
>> suits are so light and can be worn as duty uniforms. But at the low TLs,
>> would the time necessary and the bulkiness be a deterent? Do sailors in the
>> modern navy don life jackets during gerneal quarters?

They don a whole pile of gear depending on their job.
But life jackets are a bit of a waste of time for those in the
middle of the ship. Might be considered the same in space

>> b) Decompress the ship. This is rather radical, I admit...but it could
>> prevent some chaos that might ensue during an explosive decompression. Of
>> course, this requires (a) to be enacted :)

Decmpression is standard practice in Air Force bombers
even in an atmosphere. However, again, it might to much of
an inconvenience on any large ship, especialy for medical teams

Anything up to destroyer, I'd expect to decompress, or at least lower
pressure a great deal,

>> c) Screens powered up. If screens can be detected with PEMS, I would say
>> they would be left off to keep stealth characteristics. But if they are
>> undetectable, then it might be a good idea.

Screens up may be considered a sign of aggressive intent,
and would likely badly interfere with your detection capabilities

As long as you can get the screens up faster than a missile can travel
a couple of thousand klicks, I'd expect them to be left off
until combat was certain. 

(General quarters does not neccessarily imply combat)

>> d) Gravity normalized to 0G. Again, this seems radical - but could it be
>> done to prevent the disorientation that may occur if gravity is suddenly
>> lost?

Other than the fact that they'll likely be using the grav gear to
compensate for accelerations,  I agree. People should be strapped in
anyway, unless their job specifically requires them to be mobile
during combat

Saves power too.

- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:   frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |        frankie@paradise.net.nz 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:20:24 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heroes Redux

In article <19980313161217.AAA2632@frog.sns.ca>,
"Paul Rocchi" <paul_rocchi@sns.ca> wrote:
>Crossposted to MIB-L for consideration.
>
>> > <<> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:29:37 -0800
>> > > From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>> > > Subject: An idle thought...
>> > > 
>> > > So what are the odds that SJG might be re-releasing their old
>> > > line of Cardboard Heroes for (GURPS) Traveller? That beats the
>> > > heck out of waiting for someone to find / re-license molds for
>> > > the CT-era metal figures.
>> 
>> The official word is that nothing is out of print permanently,
>> although reality intervenes and prevents us from re-printing
>> everything at once. 
>>
>> Everything to he who waits, as Hannibal Lector once said.
>>
>> By the way, please ignore that stuff I said about the grey thing on
>> the back of my neck. 
>>
>> Loren Wiseman
>
>Okay Loren.. but I got this direct from Steve himself while working 
>the booth at GenCon last year (TOLD you I was a MiB).  The Cardboard 
>Heroes, and the Car Wars City Blocks, while neat, aren't profitable 
>enough per unit. thus, while not officially permanently out of print, 
>they are not likely to be printed again. 
>
>However, with the proliferation of Colour laser and inkjet printers, 
>it should be possible to produce sheets of the original Cardboard 
>Heroes, and possibly new ones as PDF or GIF files.  Such files could 
>be provided as a free download to subscribers to the electronic 
>version of Pyramid, and as a download for pay to all other users. 

Hell, why don't we all make our own ?

Take a few good photos, or stills from movie magazines,
like, say the cast of Aliens and Predator, shrink them to appropriate
size, put them in a preapred table, and print them.

For that matter, I've probably still got a couple of full sheets
of Cardboard Heroes somewhere, (I know I still have the vehicles
sheet from JG's Tancred), I could scan and print them as well,
that way preserving the originals.

BTW, I've just scanned and formatted as an MS Word document
the first half of "Ciitizens", and am starting on "Trader's & Gunboats".
so if the guy that wanted to do an e-version of CT needs a hand
he should give me a yell.

Next step is to convert to HTML and throw in few hyperlinks,
then the little black books can go into careful storage
and not get anymore worn,

These new HP scanners that scan straight to Word are great !

We've already reproduced the reference cards from games such as
Necromundia in full colour, they came out well.

The next thing on the agenda is to do a full colour version of the
deck plans from the Naval Architect's Manual, and get them on
cardboard, ( and at the same time use them to assemble complete
blueprints of ships, using a drawing program. )



- -- 
Frankie
    

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 00:03:05 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

In article <01bd4ee1$fec6ee20$LocalHost@default>,
"Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com> wrote:
>Well, this idea has also been discussed. However, what I am thinking of is
>full sized prints, as I said. What I have been using is printed on tabloid
>size paper (11" x 17") which, even given current printer costs, very few
>people have the facilitied to print for them selves. Less than the problem
>with piracy is formating the plans to print in a usable form on smaller
>(letter size 8.5" x 11") paper. Taping together 2 sheet as opposed to 4
> most plans I've used involve approx 2 sheets of tabloid for even the
>smallest starship in 25mm, per deck). But I am still open to this as an
>alternative. What is the concensus on this?

The alternative is to produce rooms and corridors that can be printed
stuck to cardboard, and arranged for whatever deckplan you're
recreating. I'm currently doing this with the Naval Architect's manual,
combined with some cut-up copies of old FASA deck plans, and the
"Legions of Steel", "Necromundia", and "Space Hulk",  deck pieces

BTW, Necromundia and other WH40K figures when carefully selected
and equiped, can look reasonable as Traveler figures

And the dreadnaughts and assasin droids from Space Hulk are
great for representing Virus ground troops

Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:   frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |        frankie@paradise.net.nz 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 00:35:27 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: IMTU Pronunciations

In article <v03007801b12caecd7b4d@[18.77.3.40]>,
"Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:

>And what about;
>
>Regina : reh (like red) + gene' + ah

Regina is Latin for queen and is pronounced with a hard G

reh  + guy  + nah

However, people who can't  pronounce latin often say :

reh  + gyne  + ah


- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:   frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |        frankie@paradise.net.nz 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 00:29:19 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: IMTU Pronunciations

In article <199803111619.LAA02313@Mithril.MPGN.COM>,
"Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca> wrote:
>
>(Apologies: this uses the American English phoneme set)
>
>Droyne: as in groin
>Solomani: solo  + m-ah-n' + ee

I'd change that to Soll + oh + m-ah-n' + ee

Pronouncing it sew-low-mahn-ee, as you suggest above, does
not appropriately emphasize the "Sol" part of the word
which really should have the accent being the root of the word.

>Zhodani:  zho   + d-ah-n' + ee
>Zhodane:  zho'  + dane (as in Danish)
>Vilani :  vil   + ah-n '  + ee

I support those.

>Sylea  :  sigh  + lay     + uh

I tend to think this should be  sigh  + lee     + ah

sigh  + lay     + uh  should be spelt "Syleiah"
>

- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:   frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |        frankie@paradise.net.nz 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 00:13:04 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

In article <ae995006.3509913d@aol.com>, DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com> wrote:
>In a message dated 3/12/98 13:48:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, blueboy@bu.edu
>writes:
>
><< > Seriously, the timing on this is kinda strange, what with 'asteroid' (or
> > whatever it is called) due out shortly.  I imagine there will be a lot of
>public
> > interest in this for a short time, then everyone will ignore it for the
>next
> > 29.5 years.
>  >>
>
>Is it perhaps possible that NASA already knows it's likely to hit Earth...and
>is suppressing the info to avoid panic?  I remember many long discussions on
>the subject of evacuating cities in the event of nuclear war...there were
>proponents for evacuating and against it; both sides had legitimate points.
>Could our government be trying to slowly work us up to the idea?  Or are they
>just keeping the info secret?  Someone call Oliver Stone...:-)

Personally, I don't think it's going to come anywhere near
Earth. This is just a clever PR job to drum up more budget support for
NASAs space capability, which has lacked public interest for some time.

Not that that's a bad thing.

- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:   frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |        frankie@paradise.net.nz 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:52:09 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heros

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
> > Its been a while. Is 25mm scale 1 meter = 25 mm?
>
> No. 25mm = "normal height" of a man.

One thing to not get caught out on is so called "15mm" scale deck
plans use a square grid that looks like 15mm by 15mm squares  ...
but they are not.  They are half inch by half inch  squares.  And
so called "25mm" scale uses 1 inch by 1 inch  squares.  In  CT/MT
each square was "15mm" scale and represented 1.5m by 1.5m ...  in
TNE each square was  "25mm"  scale  and  represented  2m  by  2m.
Striker II says its for use with 25mm minatures but uses a  scale
of 1:1000 ... and says that 1 inch equals 25m.

Er ... now I'm confused!



Regards PLST
"Spare no expense to make everthing as economical as possible."
- - movie moguel Samuel Goldwyn
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------


Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 08:57:18 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: MOTU Pronounciations

>>Solomani: solo  + m-ah-n' + ee
>
>I'd change that to Soll + oh + m-ah-n' + ee
>
>Pronouncing it sew-low-mahn-ee, as you suggest above, does
>not appropriately emphasize the "Sol" part of the word
>which really should have the accent being the root of the word.


When I was first introduced to traveller the referee pronounced words
incorrectly. Unfortunately I am stuck with these mispronouncing.

I like the above pronouncement: Soll + oh + m-ah-n' + ee
I've tried to pronounce "Solomon" in reference to King Solomon and then
adding the "ee"  (pronounced Sahl + oh + m-ah-n + ee)
In my old Traveller universe Solomani was pronounced S-uh + l-ah-m + n-eye.
I argued this pronunciation but I still find my self saying it like this.

Oh well...

Shawn

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:38:46 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:


>It was probably a situation similar to Europe in the late 19th Century.  A
>small group (the various interelated royal families) ruled over much larger
>populations with who they had very little in common.  Didn't England have a
>King (one of the Georges?) who couldn't speak English?

That's how I see it too. You're right about the King but I can't remember
who. William of Orange?

>An aggresive, Solomani dominated nobility might have resited the retaking
>of Terra out of a simple fear that the homeworld might upstage their
>standing.

Or fear that the TL13 Solomani may wipe them out (IMTU of course)!

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:41:13 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [none]

"Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com> wrote:

>Ok, I can't stay away from this one any longer, it is too close to a project
>I've been toying with for a while. What would the reaction be to a set of
>GOOD deckplans and discription, printed in either gray or full color?

If they are the ones I think they are they're superb and I suspect that
everyone will agree.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:46:02 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth

Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com> wrote:

> But will the TML be satisfied with anything less than a direct hit on
>Redmond?

Take off and destroy the planet from orbit, it's the only way to be sure? ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:43:49 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Non-relativistic Rocks passing near Earth

DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com> wrote:

>I would imagine on Oct 26, 1998, it's entirely possible the whole debate on
>rocks from space could be settled (once for all!!!)  :-)

If that doesn't do it the Oct 26, 2028 passage may well settle it ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 11:03:20 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

At 01:38 AM 3/14/98 +0000, you wrote:
>"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:

>>An aggresive, Solomani dominated nobility might have resited the retaking
>>of Terra out of a simple fear that the homeworld might upstage their
>>standing.
>
>Or fear that the TL13 Solomani may wipe them out (IMTU of course)!

Given the fractured nature of the modern (1100s) Solomani Confederation, I
think it's perfectly reasonable that Earth might have had a slight
technological edge.  I picture Earth as becoming *very* isolationist after
the fall of the RoM, suffering greatly in the death spasms.  This
isolationism lasts the entire Long Night, and as the Imperium gets started,
various Solomani pocket empires also begin expanding.

The small states would covet Earth, and spend many resources trying to
bring the Motherworld into their fold to gain legitimacy as *the* human
empire.

Hmmm... Interesting setting I've just described.. where's my copy of Pocket
Empires...
- --
+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
| "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the  |
|  stupidity of man."  -Gen. George S. Patton |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:07:10 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com> wrote:

>     Have you any evidence that the US has ever used a biological agent
>against anyone?  Saddam Hussien has repeatedly...and against his own people,
>at that.
>Over here, we don't generally let convicted felons carry guns...which doesn't
>aways stop them from doing so, granted;  but the penalties are very harsh
>indeed for doing so.  Saddam has demonstrated he can't be trusted to play
>nice...so it's time to take his toys away from him and send him to his room
>(Iraq) until he can be a good boy.

Politics is a dirty business and I suspect that we should avoid this at all
costs. I do however wish to observe that we (ie the west) are quite happy
to threaten Iraq (which militarily is something we can do quite effectively
following Desert Storm) as it is something we can do with standoff weapons
and without launching a ground offensive. I'd also observe that for the
fortnight before the current Serbian actions in Kosovo we saw the warning
signs of more ethnic cleansing on the way, yet weren't willing to do
anything.

Why? IMO because it involves committing ground forces and the whole area is
a potential powder keg. And maybe there is no oil around there. Principles
and politics? I don't think so. Seen much happening about the genocide in
Bosnia apart from one case? Iraq is a nice clean 'goodies and baddies'
fight, and easy to put a spin on politically. The Balkans are messy and
peacekeeping/intervention is hard to justify to a public back home when
people die.

ObTrav: I suspect that the Imperium will only become involved in a 'local
dispute' when it threatens trade or the military integrity of the Imperium
or politics is involved. Does the local subsector Duke order in forces to
raise his political standing?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 14:16:04 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

I seem to remember something about Richard the Lionheart spoke French and
lived in France (Aquitaine?). I believe he never stepped foot in England,
unless he went to collect taxes. John on the other hand,for all that the
Robinhood legends really paint him evil, at least lived in the country, and
enacted several tempering laws that were good for the nobility, if not the
commoner (Magna Carta, no the least, even if it took twisting his arm to
accomplish it!)

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com

"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.
- -----Original Message-----
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Saturday, March 14, 1998 2:05 PM
Subject: Vilani Domination WAS Re: Chirper


<various snippages>

>That's how I see it too. You're right about the King but I can't remember
>who. William of Orange?
>
>>An aggresive, Solomani dominated nobility might have resited the retaking
>>of Terra out of a simple fear that the homeworld might upstage their
>>standing.
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 14:23:55 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: SD Mooney - thank you

Don,

Yes, those are the preview plans. I'm also working on a set of low tech
plans, reaction drives, spin section, etc. very Babylon 5 'ish in feel. I'm
also concidering a set of station plans. All in the initial stages. Thank
you for the encouragement. Now if I could only figure the Hypertext stuff
out I might try previewing them up on a web page...

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

- -----Original Message-----
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Saturday, March 14, 1998 2:03 PM


>If they are the ones I think they are they're superb and I suspect that
>everyone will agree.
>
>Dom
>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #276
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 15 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 277



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: History Repeats Itself
Re: History Repeats Itself
Re: HIWG DUES
Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
Re: An Idle Thought
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: MOTU Pronounciations
Imagining the Third Imperium
Deckplans/Cardboard figures
Re: Travel Costs
Re: IMTU Pronunciations
Deckplans
Cardboard Et Al
Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
Re: History Repeats Itself
Re: History Repeats Itself
Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
Re: Imagining the Third Imperium
Re: History Repeats Itself
Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
Traveller T-Shirts
Re:  Cheap, realiable mail order
Re: Starship expenses
Re: 3d-starmapping resources
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: History Repeats Itself
Re: Traveller T-Shirts

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:16:38 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: History Repeats Itself

Paul Rocchi wrote:

> Just a note. It's illegal to process a credit card order for a product
> unless it is immediately shipped. In short, Archangel's plan to
> process before the product ships by 30 days is against the law.

Paul, I'm not sure where you are in the world and what law governs that
place, but this law you're talking about is probably waivable, i.e., if you
understand that you are pre-ordering, then it is not illegal.  Also,
there's a significant question of what law is applicable, the law of the
place where you are or the law of the place where the seller is.  Since you
make the call or use the net to access the seller, the contract will
generally be governed by the law of the place where the seller is.

(Just a little sharing of my Conflicts of Law training :-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:18:43 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: History Repeats Itself

Sethkimmel wrote:

> If this is indeed true, than report his ass to the Postmaster General for wire
> fraud. However, please be %1000 percent this is correct before reporting him.

  Cut to the chase and call the FBI.  Postmaster General is for Mail Fraud, but
FBI has jurisdiction over both.  Assuming, of course, that it is indeed an illegal
transaction.  A fact which I am highly suspicious of (see other post in this
thread).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:19:19 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: HIWG DUES

And the HIWG is what?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:35:16 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

>I seem to remember something about Richard the Lionheart spoke French and
>lived in France (Aquitaine?). I believe he never stepped foot in England,

The Platanaget Domain included England and about half of France amongst other
minor possessions.  Richard was Couer de Leon.  He didn't speak a word of
English.  

>unless he went to collect taxes. John on the other hand,for all that the
>Robinhood legends really paint him evil, at least lived in the country, and

John was an incompetent boob and lost most of the French lands of the
Platanagets to the Kings of France.

>enacted several tempering laws that were good for the nobility, if not the
>commoner (Magna Carta, no the least, even if it took twisting his arm to
>accomplish it!)

He was a weak king who was easily controled by his barons and vassals and
manipulated by his enemies (chiefly Phillip of France).

Ob trav...  Have any the of the Emperors of the 3I been pawns of their
vassals.  I can see powerful Archdukes but from canon, i kind of doubt it.
Course this could play in w/ the Solomani domination versus teh Vilani one and
Emperor Zhakirov. Probably lots of intrigue going on...

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:25:17 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

At 06:01 pm 3/13/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Ok, I can't stay away from this one any longer, it is too close to
a project
>>I've been toying with for a while. What would the reaction be to a
set of
>>GOOD deckplans and discription, printed in either gray or full
color? What

	<snips>

>I think it would be a good idea, but rather than print them out they
would
>be, IMO, more useful as electronic publications. Say as .pdf files
on 3.5"
>disks if not over the net. Less overhead for you too (which,
theoretically

	<snips>

	If I were purchasing electronic copies, I'd really prefer something
I could edit and modify for my own purposes. Hands up, anybody who's
used more than 10% of published materials "as is," or at least would
have preferred to modify them?  I believe most CAD and even lower-end
"sketching" programs can import some minimal set of DXF
primitives--even PowerPoint. That's my vote: DXF, or perhaps WMF.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:36:27 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

At 02:18 am 3/14/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>    Did it prevent a war, or merely delay it, ensuring that when it
does
>> happen, it will be even bigger and nastier than it would have been
otherwise?
>No one can tell for sure, but one thing we do see over here in
europe,
>is that the US government was a bit over the top here. I dont know
what
>your "news" said, but the danger wasnt seen as big over here. The
>general opinion was that the palaces were probably no hideaways for
>chemical weapons, or couldnt be and that if Saddam had any, they
would

	Then general opinion is probably misinformed. Not that the truth is
any more palatable. Useable quantities of chem/bio materials can be
hidden in apartments, houses, and just about everywhere else.
Inspecting the palaces probably won't find anything unless Hussein is
an idiot. At most, you might locate records, or possibly *delivery*
systems (i.e. missile technology, etc.). 


ObTrav: Here's a frightening plot. Joe Martyr infects himself (or is
infected by his Beloved Leader) with a highly contagious, highly
fatal disease with a fairly long incubation period. Then he goes and
wanders around a major Class A starport, maybe gets on a large
passenger liner and goes to another major world. Everybody who comes
in close proximity with him takes the disease with them, to other
worlds and starports where they spread it as well, to other people
... The players are employed by an intelligence organization that has
gotten some inkling of this plot and wants to investigate further;
when the players discover the true nature, what do they do?

Why frightening? Substitute "Class A" starport with Heathrow, JFK, or
Charles de Gaulle. How many people does the average traveller come
into contact with, and how many places are those people going? I
vaguely recall hearing of a government experiment many years ago,
where people getting on the subway in NY at one station were secretly
dusted with a fluorescent powder. The idea was to see how quickly and
how far a biological agent could be spread from a single point by
terrorists. Answer: frighteningly fast to everywhere in NY.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:54:30 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: MOTU Pronounciations

Regarding all these various pronunciation ideas and arguments -- I think
the reasonable answer is that they're all equally right.  Galanglic, we're
told, has four or five major dialects.  The sort of differences in
pronunciation we've been talking about here are, I'd expect, the _least_ of
the differences between dialects separated by months of communication lag,
over hundreds of years.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:54:35 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Imagining the Third Imperium

Just a quick aside:  I was reading something by Viktor Adler (probably a
Hiver manipulee), who in writing about the later days of the Habsburg court
described the Empire as "absolutism ameliorated by slovenliness"(*) -- and
I _immediately_ thought of the Third Imperium.  Anyone else besides me have
the urge to model the 3I after the late 19th century Austro-Hungarian
Empire, rather than late 18th century England?

(*) If I'm understanding correctly "Absolutismus gemildert durch
Schlamperei" -- Volker, Lars, Michael, can you confirm?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:51:31 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Deckplans/Cardboard figures

	It's currently in the plans to provide ship deckplans in a rescaleable
format, electronically.
	This way you can go to your local reprographics shop and get it printed out
on large forms (like C & D size paper), as well as your current printer.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:39:44
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Travel Costs

A
>From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
>Subject: Re: Travel Costs
>
>In article <3.0.2.16.19980312155232.30ff4b4e@mail.orac.net.au>,
>Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>The example concerned a darn rich, late-Empire world. For worlds with ICr
>>5-8 000 (far more 'normal'), our businessman would have to be even more
>>wealthy, relativly speaking (an income of 60 000 a year implies wealth of
>>around MCr 2, assuming a 3% rate of interest).
>
>This may be valid Traveller maths, but it's crap real world economics
>
>For instance, I currently earn over 60K a year, but my assets are nowhere
>near even 0.5M, and I also have about 100K-odd in liabilities.
>
>- - 
>Frankie

Nope, if you are earning 60K a year, you do have a single asset worth a lot
more than half a mil - you, or more accuratly the value of your future
earnings stream. If you could capitilise that (which, generally speaking,
you cant, slavery being illegal), then that would be your million-dollar
asset.

Just as an example, see what your insurance company values your
income-earning ability at.

Ian

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:31:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: IMTU Pronunciations

Quoth frankie@mundens.gen.nz:
> "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote: 
> >Regina : reh (like red) + gene' + ah 
>  
> Regina is Latin for queen and is pronounced with a hard G 
> reh  + guy  + nah 

But since Latin vowels (at least in the Continental system) are pronounced
"purely", you should have

	reh + gee + nah

All of which is moot, since CT Book 6 claims the world and other bodies in
the system are named after a St. Regina (of whom I've never heard -- and
the other names seem to imply a made-up literary reference from the future
history).  Anyone know the true story?

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:18:17 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Deckplans

	It's currently in the plans to provide ship deckplans in a rescaleable
format, electronically.
	This way you can go to your local reprographics shop and get it printed out
on large forms (like C & D size paper), as well as your current printer.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:00:32 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Cardboard Et Al

One of the things being discussed at SJ Games is whether to make this sort of
thing part of the GURPS on a CD project. No decisions yet.

Whoever said:
>Hell, why don't we all make our own ?

>Take a few good photos, or stills from movie magazines,
>like, say the cast of Aliens and Predator, shrink them to appropriate
>size, put them in a preapred table, and print them.
>
>For that matter, I've probably still got a couple of full sheets
>of Cardboard Heroes somewhere, (I know I still have the vehicles
>sheet from JG's Tancred), I could scan and print them as well,
>that way preserving the originals.

No prob making your own foldy-fellows, but please don't use copyrighted
artwork. Use something that's public domain, dress your friends and roommates
in costumes and take photos of them, draw your own, etc. Remember, these
things are going to end up an inch high -- the art doesn't have to be _great_
to make a good looking figure. 

Scan in some clip art (which is by definition public domain) and draw in some
guns, sonic screwdrivers, or whatever. I did it years ago, when the
soft/hardware was much more primitive, and got OK results (never used
them...I'm a lead pusher at heart, and it seems less trouble to me to make my
own out of Sculpy(tm)).

PLST:
>One thing to not get caught out on is so called "15mm" scale deck
>plans use a square grid that looks like 15mm by 15mm squares  ...
>but they are not.  They are half inch by half inch  squares.  And
>so called "25mm" scale uses 1 inch by 1 inch  squares.  In  CT/MT
>each square was "15mm" scale and represented 1.5m by 1.5m ...  in
>TNE each square was  "25mm"  scale  and  represented  2m  by  2m.
>Striker II says its for use with 25mm minatures but uses a  scale
>of 1:1000 ... and says that 1 inch equals 25m.
>
>Er ... now I'm confused!

Don't be. Figure scale and ground scale do not always match in games. Don't
get the TML started on figure scale again -- the subject is confusing enough
for those of us in the trade.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:55:39 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

> The Platanaget Domain included England and about half of France amongst
other
> minor possessions.  Richard was Couer de Leon.  He didn't speak a word of
> English.  

I thought it was Plantaganet?  (Could be an 'e' after the g though). 
That's where my ISP's name comes from!  :^)  (PIL = Plantaganet Internet
Limited).

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:53:44 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: History Repeats Itself

> > Just a note. It's illegal to process a credit card order for a product
> > unless it is immediately shipped. In short, Archangel's plan to
> > process before the product ships by 30 days is against the law.
> 
> Paul, I'm not sure where you are in the world and what law governs that
> place, but this law you're talking about is probably waivable, i.e., if
you
> understand that you are pre-ordering, then it is not illegal.  Also,
> there's a significant question of what law is applicable, the law of the
> place where you are or the law of the place where the seller is.  Since
you
> make the call or use the net to access the seller, the contract will
> generally be governed by the law of the place where the seller is.

You're probably correct here.  "ViewAskew" productions (Kevin Smith's
(Clerks, Mallrats, Chasing Amy, Good Will Hunting) is a major outfit and
they have "pre-orders" of a fashion.  Many products are available signed by
Kevin Smith himself, but, at the moment he is hard at work on the set of
his newest film.  People who order stuff signed by him are "backordered"
until he gets done working on it.  Now, "ViewAskew" is, as I said, a major
outfit and is legally on the level as far as I can tell.  It seems as if
this may be a situation where the credit card purchase can be waived.  I
mean, what happens in the case of backorders and such?  At the jewelry
company where I used to work, it was routine for a credit card order to be
shipped with some of the items, with other items backordered until the full
order can be filled.  And it is typical for bookstores, video-game stores,
and record stores (both mail-order and walk-in) to allow pre-purchases on
items that are expected to become hot.

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:31:33 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: History Repeats Itself

Chris Seamans wrote:

> You're probably correct here.  "ViewAskew" productions (Kevin Smith's
> (Clerks, Mallrats, Chasing Amy, Good Will Hunting) is a major outfit and
> they have "pre-orders" of a fashion.

Snootches, bootches!

I'm not sure they'd consider themselves "major" but they do good work.  I was
impressed that they got Troops Part 5 so early.

Ob traveller:  Download Troops: the COPS paradoy of Star Wars - its a day in
the life of an Agent / Soldier of the Empire.
(If you haven't seen COPS, its a show that follows Policemen around as they do
they work. blurring the faces to protect the 'innocent' - it usually involves
domestic squabbles at trailer parks with subliterate folks.  TROOPS is similar
in the Star Wars Universe.  Jawas get rousted, Luke's aunt and uncle cause a
scene, etc.  The downloads are large though - 5 parts in 9,4,18,27, and 20 MB
respectively.)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:30:50 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

Well, I vaguely remember that Stryx was such an idiot that he was (forced  ?)
to abdicate. I wondered if it was the moot, or the Archdukes who pressured him
though...

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:35:31 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Imagining the Third Imperium

I like it! Especially as it seems that every war in the Marches seems to have
either nibbled away territory from the Imperium or ended in stalemate. Of
course the Solomani managed to lose....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:12:54 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: History Repeats Itself

> I'm not sure they'd consider themselves "major" but they do good work.  I
was
> impressed that they got Troops Part 5 so early.

Let's see...  Mallrats' massive budget (Smith's _pay_ alone was 6.5 mil),
two critical successes that Smith wrote and directed (Clerks and Chasing
Amy), and both a critical and commercial success that ViewAskew produced
(Good Will Hunting)!!!

Plus a series of commercials (plus a special) on MTV, (possible) writer's
credit on the upcoming Tim Burton Superman movie...  and a possible Clerks
animated series.  Sounds pretty major to me  when all is said and done!!!

Oh, and that's not to mention the upcoming "Dogma" with Alan Rickman, Chris
Rock, Linda Fiorintino and several other big pay actor types...

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:18:25 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

>>populations with who they had very little in common.  Didn't England have a
>>King (one of the Georges?) who couldn't speak English?
>
>That's how I see it too. You're right about the King but I can't remember
>who. William of Orange?

  Presumably the first George out of Hanover.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:35:05 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

>>populations with who they had very little in common.  Didn't England have a
>>King (one of the Georges?) who couldn't speak English?
>
>That's how I see it too. You're right about the King but I can't remember
>who. William of Orange?

  Presumably the first George out of Hanover.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 00:44:02 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Traveller T-Shirts

A little while ago, someone brought up the idea of T-shirts to raise
Traveller awareness.  I could possibly make some, but obviously, I don't
want to jump ahead, talk to Mr. Miller about licensing and royalties, pay
the licensing fee, make the screens, start making the shirts and have no
one buy them...

I'd like to see a headcount of people who would be interested, either in
private e-mail or on the list.  We're not talking a massive project here. 
One color screening on a high quality all-cotton Tee with front and (and on
some) back designs.  The basic ideas I have are: Imperial Starburst (yellow
on black shirt), Imperial Starburst (dark grey on black shirt, much more
subtle), and IISS "Poni Express" Logo (black, beige, or light grey on green
or brown).

I need some serious soul-searching here.  The shirts would be under 20
bucks, basically enough for me to cover the licensing, royalties,
equipment, and a small profit for the labor.  If you'd be seriously willing
to buy a shirt _please_ respond!  Don't just let everyone else respond for
you.  And only respond if you're serious (or at least tell me that you're
half serious).  If I get enough people who'd like to buy them, I'll run off
a few and put them on my (upcoming webpage) for review.

Please consider carefully!!!

Thanks,
Chris

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:51:44 -0600
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconnaught@fia.net>
Subject: Re:  Cheap, realiable mail order

        Guys, try Flashpoint, it's a small mail-order, retail shop near my
home in Missouri. The e-mail address is flashpoint@fia.net.
The two guys who run it are Mike Naggi and Pat Zander.

I'll post the the website info in a day or so.

Hope this helps.
Pat Connaughton


- -----Original Message-----
From: 2drapers <2drapers@infowest.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Thursday, March 12, 1998 10:53 PM


>My local hobby shop went under last year, and the closest one is now two
>hours away in Vegas.  It looks like a few of the IG items might be worth
>picking up; can anyone recommend a mail order shop that is cheap, reliable,
>and fast?
>
>-SD
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 22:52:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:13:22 -0500
> From: hal@buffnet.net
> 
>   To the best of my knowledge, Modern transportation does not require
> medical insurance for it's passengers, and even if the Imperium did mandate
> it?  It would likely be a cost that would be transfered to the costumer.  

So, at last the plot is laid bare.  Cleon is building his path to the
stars on the backs of underpaid garment workers.  For shame!

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:22:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: 3d-starmapping resources

> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:15:37 -0600
> From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
> 
> I've been thinking about a tramline style system (Alderman
> Drive-Pournelle and Niven).

Alderson, actually.  Alderman drives work by interacting with the
fundmental forces of local government. :)  Alderson's a real guy; besides
providing SF tech to N&P, he was responsible for planning the Voyager
grand-tour grav assists.  I once spent three mind-bogglingly wonderful
hours talking to him.  Toward the end we were handwaving a galactic-scale
diskworld, with stars on hundred-million-mile lampposts, or arcing up and
down through holes in the surface... 

> You could use that in a 3d universe and still keep the number of
> accessable systems down and have the equivilant of rifts, chokepoints,
> mains, etc. I don't know how you would *map* this though, not like the
> standard Trav map I don't think. Any ideas? 

Just map it as a network, nodes and lines between them, no attempt to
mirror physical location.  As I recall, most stars have 1-3 Alderson
transfer points to other nearby stars, so the net should be sparse enough
to draw legibly.

The main problem is, of course, that it's hard to glance at such a map and
tell what is near to what; the lines can be of any length to join nodes,
yet the line length is physically meaningless.  Perhaps a JimV-style 3d
viewer with tramlines superimposed is as good as you can do, even though
it ties viewing to the computer.  Or you can show only relevant parts of
the network, thus minimizing distortions. 

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:39:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:53:52 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
> 
>    Top Ten Spots I'd Like to See the Asteroid Hit If It Were Coming *Tomorrow*
[snip]
> 1)  Los Angeles (for more reasons than I can count, ideally with Beverly
> Hills as "ground zero"...)

To the tune of Randy Newman's "I Love LA"...

  Hate nickel-iron, it's dense and it's hard
  It seems the air just won't deflect it;
  Let's leave the Basin for the weekend --
  Impacts are rough, and we expect it...

Rolling down Imperial Highway
5 trillion tons of rock coming down
Blast waves blowing in from above
Think we'll toast, or drown?

Crank up the windows, and start to scream
That was the river; now it's live steam
We're gonna die and it ain't San Andreas fault...

  From the South Bay, to the Valley
  From the Westside, to the Eastside,
  Everybody's very panicked
  Cause big one's on the way...
  Looks like our final perfect day
  I love LA!

There go the mountains, here comes the sea,
Great big tsunami gonna wash over me;
Look at that crater, ain't nothin' like it nowhere...

  Victory Boulevard?  It's rubble!
  Century Boulevard?  It's rubble!
  Santa Monica Boulevard?  It's rubble!
  Sixth Street?  It's rubble!  It's rubble!  aaaaaAAAAAH!

I love LA!
(*boom*)


[ You see, we Angelenos *like* a little excitement... :) ]

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 03:49:23 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: History Repeats Itself

Chris Seamans wrote:

> > I'm not sure they'd consider themselves "major" but they do good work.  I
> was
> > impressed that they got Troops Part 5 so early.
>
> Let's see...

[snip]

I know, I know.  I'm a big fan and a View-Askew lurker/occasional poster.  I'm
just saying that I don't think they'd call themselves 'major' especially with
respect to the Hollywood establishment.  Which is all the more to their credit.

:-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 03:56:15 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller T-Shirts

Chris Seamans wrote:

> I'd like to see a headcount of people who would be interested, either in
> private e-mail or on the list.

One or Two here.

> The basic ideas I have are: Imperial Starburst (yellow
> on black shirt), Imperial Starburst (dark grey on black shirt, much more
> subtle), and IISS "Poni Express" Logo (black, beige, or light grey on green
> or brown).

I don't know about the Pony Express, but a black T-shirt having across the top
the thin red line and "Traveller" across it in italics, just like the LBB.  Now
that would be very, very cool!  Put the Free Trade Beowulf Dialogue on the
back.  I'll take 2.I'm getting goose pimples thinking about it.  If you walked
around GenCon with one of these on, you'd get a lot of attention, and
hopefully, a lot of sales.

Bloo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #277
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Sunday, March 15 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 278



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
Re: MOTU Pronounciations
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
Re: Traveller T-Shirts
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: An Idle Thought
Re: Traveller T-Shirts
Re: Traveller T-Shirts
Re: An Idle Thought
Pronunciation of Regina
Re: Imagining the Third Imperium
Re: Pronunciation of Regina
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Pronunciation of Regina
Re: History Repeats Itself
Re: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: Potential stuff for sale...
Re: What's HIWG
Auction News
Re: Auction News
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:06:22 +0100
From: Philip ESPI <Philip.Espi@ICapway.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

Chris Seamans wrote:

> > The Platanaget Domain included England and about half of France
> amongst
> other
> > minor possessions.  Richard was Couer de Leon.  He didn't speak a
> word of
> > English.

In modern French, the spelling is "Richard Coeur de Lion", but I'm not
fluent in 12th century French, so I can't quote the exact spelling at
that time.

>
>
> I thought it was Plantaganet?  (Could be an 'e' after the g though).
> That's where my ISP's name comes from!  :^)  (PIL = Plantaganet
> Internet
> Limited).
>

Well, in French, it's definitely Plantagenet

- --
Phil
- --------------------------------
Do or do not,
There is no try.
                 Yoda (SW:TESB)

Mailto:Philip.Espi@Capway.com
- --------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:11:57 +0100
From: Philip ESPI <Philip.Espi@ICapway.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

> >>populations with who they had very little in common.  Didn't England
> have a
> >>King (one of the Georges?) who couldn't speak English?
> >
> >That's how I see it too. You're right about the King but I can't
> remember
> >who. William of Orange?

What about the first (English) Prince of Wales - can't remember his name
- - I've heard he started to learn welsh a long time after his
coronation(sp)

- --
Phil
- --------------------------------
Do or do not,
There is no try.
                 Yoda (SW:TESB)

Mailto:Philip.Espi@Capway.com
- --------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:07:58 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MOTU Pronounciations

At 12:54 PM 3/14/98 +0800, you wrote:
>Regarding all these various pronunciation ideas and arguments -- I think
>the reasonable answer is that they're all equally right.  Galanglic, we're
>told, has four or five major dialects.  The sort of differences in
>pronunciation we've been talking about here are, I'd expect, the _least_ of
>the differences between dialects separated by months of communication lag,
>over hundreds of years.
>
>Kenji Schwarz
>kenji@accessone.com
>

You say tah-may-toe, I say toh-mah-toe!

Sincerely,

Brian A. Howard

Beware the sound of a Babel fish,
For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 08:51:49 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

At 11:39 PM 3/14/98 -0800, Craig Berry wrote:

>> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:53:52 -0500 (EST)

>

>>    Top Ten Spots I'd Like to See the Asteroid Hit If It Were Coming
*Tomorrow*

>[Snippage of a hilarious parody]

>

>

>[ You see, we Angelenos *like* a little excitement... :) ]

>

>---------------------------------------------------------------------

>   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net


There was even something poetic about <italic>Mt. Wilshire</italic> from
the movie <italic>Volcano</italic>!






Sincerely,


Brian A. Howard


Beware the sound of a Babel fish,

For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 08:55:36 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

At 09:30 PM 3/14/98 EST, you wrote:
>Well, I vaguely remember that Stryx was such an idiot that he was (forced  ?)
>to abdicate. I wondered if it was the moot, or the Archdukes who pressured
him
>though...

Actually it was a military coup.  His massive incompetence in the Third
Frontier War led to his own Guard forcing him to abdicate.  This was after,
of course, they found him cowering in his bathroom.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 08:58:27 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Traveller T-Shirts

At 12:44 AM 3/15/98 -0500, you wrote:

>I'd like to see a headcount of people who would be interested, either in
>private e-mail or on the list.  We're not talking a massive project here. 
>One color screening on a high quality all-cotton Tee with front and (and on
>some) back designs.  The basic ideas I have are: Imperial Starburst (yellow
>on black shirt), Imperial Starburst (dark grey on black shirt, much more
>subtle), and IISS "Poni Express" Logo (black, beige, or light grey on green
>or brown).

Gee.. woukd I like yet another Traveller t-shirt?  Of course!

A suggestion.. make use of the Bilandin font in some way.. nothing attracts
attention like an unusual script.  (Perhaps put the Mayday call in that font.)


+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
|----------------------------------------|
| "The best tank terrain is that without |
|  anti-tank weapons."                   |
|            -Russian Military Doctrine  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:50:09 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

"David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote:

>Why frightening? Substitute "Class A" starport with Heathrow, JFK, or
>Charles de Gaulle. How many people does the average traveller come
>into contact with, and how many places are those people going? I
>vaguely recall hearing of a government experiment many years ago,
>where people getting on the subway in NY at one station were secretly
>dusted with a fluorescent powder. The idea was to see how quickly and
>how far a biological agent could be spread from a single point by
>terrorists. Answer: frighteningly fast to everywhere in NY.

cf The film "12 Monkeys" by Terry Gilliam.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:10:50 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

"Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com> writes:
>What would the reaction be to a set of
>GOOD deckplans and discription, printed in either gray or full color? What
>about the scale, is  25mm (1" squares approx.) better, or would 15mm
>(traditional 1/2" squares) fit more peoples table top games. How much
>would
>they be worth packaged with a card stock sheet of cardboard heroes?

I tried this last year. Here's the results I got then:

Most people would be amenable to deck plans, with the list evenly split
between 25mm and 15mm scales. (25mm has more miniatures, 15mm fits tables
better). No one was willing to pay what good colour plans would cost for a
small run ($2 per large sheet), and a large print run (with smaller unit
costs) would have required a substantial investment. At either scale, most
Traveller ships would require several sheets.

Seeker did starship blueprints, which has furnishings but no colour. They
didn't sell very well at most games shops (much lower turnover than
books). 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 09:32:43 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller T-Shirts

Chris,

    We are in the business of creating embroidery designs. If we did get
permission to make traveller clothing, I could create a logo that could be
embroidered onto shirt.
    Examples other than the starburst include: The CT logo (Traveller with a
line under it), a scout ship, other logo's shown in MT: Rebellion.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Saturday, March 14, 1998 9:49 PM
Subject: Traveller T-Shirts


>A little while ago, someone brought up the idea of T-shirts to raise
>Traveller awareness.  I could possibly make some, but obviously, I don't
>want to jump ahead, talk to Mr. Miller about licensing and royalties, pay
>the licensing fee, make the screens, start making the shirts and have no
>one buy them...
>
>I'd like to see a headcount of people who would be interested, either in
>private e-mail or on the list.  We're not talking a massive project here.
>One color screening on a high quality all-cotton Tee with front and (and on
>some) back designs.  The basic ideas I have are: Imperial Starburst (yellow
>on black shirt), Imperial Starburst (dark grey on black shirt, much more
>subtle), and IISS "Poni Express" Logo (black, beige, or light grey on green
>or brown).
>
>I need some serious soul-searching here.  The shirts would be under 20
>bucks, basically enough for me to cover the licensing, royalties,
>equipment, and a small profit for the labor.  If you'd be seriously willing
>to buy a shirt _please_ respond!  Don't just let everyone else respond for
>you.  And only respond if you're serious (or at least tell me that you're
>half serious).  If I get enough people who'd like to buy them, I'll run off
>a few and put them on my (upcoming webpage) for review.
>
>Please consider carefully!!!
>
>Thanks,
>Chris
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:00:26 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller T-Shirts

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BD5009.F10B0180
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Chris,

    We are in the business of creating embroidery designs. If we did get
permission to make traveller clothing, I could create a logo that could =
be
embroidered onto shirt.
    Examples other than the starburst include: The CT logo (Traveller =
with a
line under it), a scout ship, other logo's shown in MT: Rebellion.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Saturday, March 14, 1998 9:49 PM
Subject: Traveller T-Shirts


>A little while ago, someone brought up the idea of T-shirts to raise
>Traveller awareness.  I could possibly make some, but obviously, I =
don't
>want to jump ahead, talk to Mr. Miller about licensing and royalties, =
pay
>the licensing fee, make the screens, start making the shirts and have =
no
>one buy them...
>
>I'd like to see a headcount of people who would be interested, either =
in
>private e-mail or on the list.  We're not talking a massive project =
here.
>One color screening on a high quality all-cotton Tee with front and =
(and on
>some) back designs.  The basic ideas I have are: Imperial Starburst =
(yellow
>on black shirt), Imperial Starburst (dark grey on black shirt, much =
more
>subtle), and IISS "Poni Express" Logo (black, beige, or light grey on =
green
>or brown).
>
>I need some serious soul-searching here.  The shirts would be under 20
>bucks, basically enough for me to cover the licensing, royalties,
>equipment, and a small profit for the labor.  If you'd be seriously =
willing
>to buy a shirt _please_ respond!  Don't just let everyone else respond =
for
>you.  And only respond if you're serious (or at least tell me that =
you're
>half serious).  If I get enough people who'd like to buy them, I'll run =
off
>a few and put them on my (upcoming webpage) for review.
>
>Please consider carefully!!!
>
>Thanks,
>Chris
>


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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Chris,<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We are in the business of creating =

embroidery designs. If we did get<BR>permission to make traveller =
clothing, I=20
could create a logo that could be<BR>embroidered onto=20
shirt.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Examples other than the starburst include: =
The CT=20
logo (Traveller with a<BR>line under it), a scout ship, other logo's =
shown in=20
MT: Rebellion.<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Chris Seamans =
&lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:semo@pil.net">semo@pil.net</A>&gt;<BR>To: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:traveller@MPGN.COM">traveller@MPGN.COM</A> &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:traveller@MPGN.COM">traveller@MPGN.COM</A>&gt;<BR>Date: =
Saturday,=20
March 14, 1998 9:49 PM<BR>Subject: Traveller T-Shirts<BR><BR><BR>&gt;A =
little=20
while ago, someone brought up the idea of T-shirts to =
raise<BR>&gt;Traveller=20
awareness.&nbsp; I could possibly make some, but obviously, I =
don't<BR>&gt;want=20
to jump ahead, talk to Mr. Miller about licensing and royalties, =
pay<BR>&gt;the=20
licensing fee, make the screens, start making the shirts and have =
no<BR>&gt;one=20
buy them...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I'd like to see a headcount of people who =
would be=20
interested, either in<BR>&gt;private e-mail or on the list.&nbsp; We're =
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all-cotton Tee with front and (and on<BR>&gt;some) back designs.&nbsp; =
The basic=20
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Imperial=20
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green<BR>&gt;or=20
brown).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I need some serious soul-searching here.&nbsp; =
The shirts=20
would be under 20<BR>&gt;bucks, basically enough for me to cover the =
licensing,=20
royalties,<BR>&gt;equipment, and a small profit for the labor.&nbsp; If =
you'd be=20
seriously willing<BR>&gt;to buy a shirt _please_ respond!&nbsp; Don't =
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/BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BD5009.F10B0180--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:16:23 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

So I've gathered. People are interested and a few are willing to pay but
most would rather have them in electronic format (not that I blame them!)
which means that they will be bought at about the same rate as shareware,
with a much smaller market base.

Well the idea is still there just not sure where to go with it from here.

On a side note Rob, didn't I see somewhere that you use Corel Draw for
mapping, or maybe it was some one else. Anyone using Corel (I'm on ver. 6)
contact me please about swapping plans etc.

Thanks to all who replied
Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Sunday, March 15, 1998 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought


>I tried this last year. Here's the results I got then:
>
>Most people would be amenable to deck plans, with the list evenly split
>between 25mm and 15mm scales. (25mm has more miniatures, 15mm fits tables
>better). No one was willing to pay what good colour plans would cost for a
>small run ($2 per large sheet), and a large print run (with smaller unit
>costs) would have required a substantial investment. At either scale, most
>Traveller ships would require several sheets.
>
>Seeker did starship blueprints, which has furnishings but no colour. They
>didn't sell very well at most games shops (much lower turnover than
>books).
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:29:31 -0000
From: Douglas Sinclair <eem2ds@ee.surrey.ac.uk>
Subject: Pronunciation of Regina

Just to throw more fuel on the fire, there's a city in Saskatchewan called
Regina.  It's pronounced:
re - REgarding
gi - GIant
na - NAtural

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:20:20 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Imagining the Third Imperium

At 09:35 PM 14/03/98 EST, you wrote:
>I like it! Especially as it seems that every war in the Marches seems to have
>either nibbled away territory from the Imperium or ended in stalemate. Of
>course the Solomani managed to lose....
>
I'm not sure that the 3I won, however. If the Solomani 'crust' defence
strategy was flawed the way the Imperial histories read the 3I shuld have
beaten them more easily. IMO the 3I couldn't have pushed on much further
without paying far too high a price. The way the history reads to me is
that the 3I didn't stop with Terra because that was 'good enough' but
because they'd become just as exhausted as the (much smaller) Solomanis and
didn't want to risk a major stuff-up that would've let the Solomani push
back the other way.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:03:20 +0100
From: Philip ESPI <Philip.Espi@ICapway.com>
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Regina

Douglas Sinclair wrote:

> Just to throw more fuel on the fire, there's a city in Saskatchewan
> called
> Regina.  It's pronounced:
> re - REgarding
> gi - GIant
> na - NAtural

  Doesn't that sound like "vagina" ?

I definetly prefer the sound of "re-guee-na"

- --
Phil
- --------------------------------
Do or do not,
There is no try.
                 Yoda (SW:TESB)

Mailto:Philip.Espi@Capway.com
- --------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 21:21:30 GMT
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Actually, the Iraq bio weapons vs Clinton's sex scandal is interesting 
in the Traveller parallels it brings to (my) mind.  Soon, however, the 
tread will degenerate into a flame war and we'll all lose.

Ob trav:  
Client state, previously armed (in a series of cycles) by the Imperium, 
and its occasional allies in the region has not gon according to plan. 
 The political situation among the client mixed states is complex and 
the Iranian Pocket Empire, so long a supporter of the Imperium, has 
switched to religious fundamentalism and treatened the stability of the 
region.  The Imperium "advisors" in the area saw the Iraq pocket Empire 
as the ideal tool with which to contain the Iraninas, but eneded up 
creating a monster.

Meanwhile, ArchDuke Norris is concerned that Santanocheev and his 
allies have found out (or are asking embarassing questions) about the 
use of Imperial Stationery to promote himself.  To deflect attention 
away from this, the growing skirmish in the client states seems the 
only useful option.  Norris' advisors have been scanning the reports 
and believe that a claim that the Iraq Empire has bio-weapons (against 
the Imperial Rules of War) could be used as justification for sending a 
large task force (including Santanocheev's allies) away for several 
years until the Emperor's proclamation arrives to confirm Norris' 
elevation.

Norris never expected that the force would initiate combat, so when 
reports of combat started to flood in, he needed to re-think his 
strategies .... 



Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 17:01:44 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Regina

I always pronounced it

reh-gee-nah (soft G)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:06:34 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: History Repeats Itself

Joe Block wrote:

> In article <982141953427122@mychelle.other-plane.miamisci.org>, Steve
> Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote:
> > Ob traveller:  Download Troops: the COPS paradoy of Star Wars - its a day in
> > the life of an Agent / Soldier of the Empire.
> > (If you haven't seen COPS, its a show that follows Policemen around as they do
> > they work. blurring the faces to protect the 'innocent' - it usually involves
> > domestic squabbles at trailer parks with subliterate folks.  TROOPS is similar
> > in the Star Wars Universe.  Jawas get rousted, Luke's aunt and uncle cause a
> > scene, etc.  The downloads are large though - 5 parts in 9,4,18,27, and 20 MB
> > respectively.)
>
> Where's the site for this - sounds wonderful

I've been downloading from this site.  Although it only allows 10 anonymous ftp
users on a time, its fairly quick on the download.  Plus, they had some of the parts
before anyone else.

http://www.arctic.org/~danh/troops/

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:54:37 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:56:37 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Potential stuff for sale...

CardSharks wrote:

[a list of material available for sale]

Marc, could I please trouble you to repost that list or send it to me by email?
I was just getting ready to make an order, when I acidentally deleted the previous
post.

Bloo
(blueboy@bu.edu)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:56:47 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Re: What's HIWG

	HISTORY OF THE IMPERIUM WORKING GROUP

	A collection of traveller fans and writers.

	In the past we were and probably still are best known for the sector files. A
few of our members were involved in various DGP and GDW products.
	Members (have) includ(ed) (for example):
Mike Mikesh
Clay R Bush
James Holden
Rob Caswell
Mark Gelinas
Harold Hale
Kevin Knight
Chuck Kallenbach
Denis Myers
Duncan Law-Green
Terry McInnes
Charles Gannon
and many others.....

	This organization is currently undergoing a revival and revitalization. Like
a lot of Traveller fans over the years, it's had troubles keeping up with the
change to TNE and than to T4.
	The organization is devoted to Traveller in all it's forms and rules sets.
	It's purpose it's to promote Traveller in any form.


Bryan

P.S. Sorry for the 'advertising'. However HIWG goals are probably important
enough to the list members.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 19:22:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Auction News

Hey folks,

my ISP had my old credit card info, and since the expiration date
changed they couldn't run my card. To make a long story short, my
account dropped off the net today, and is back--but perhaps only til
midnight when an automated process might well kill it again.

It will be fixed with a phone call once there are actually people
there to talk to Monday morning.

I will have an update posted to my site by tomorrow at the latest.
Sorry for any worry this has caused to the bidders! (makes me wish I
had an ISP with some kind of online payment site :-/

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 19:48:49 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Auction News

Hi again,

I posted the latest update, but my web area needs root to unsuspend
it still. As soon as the powers that be get it online, the update
will be reachable at http://www.rt66.com/~merrick/Lane/lanesale.html

Again, sorry that the tech-support guys can't really fix it without
their money takers getting involved !#$!#$!#$^%&.

Actually, I'll move a copy to my company site area! Go to
http://www.ants-inc.com/merrick/lanesale.html

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 21:23:04 -0600
From: Paul Kerby <ybrekp@mtco.com>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

on March 15, Dave Golden wrote:

> ObTrav: Here's a frightening plot. Joe Martyr infects himself (or is
> infected by his Beloved Leader) with a highly contagious, highly
> fatal disease with a fairly long incubation period. Then he goes and
> wanders around a major Class A starport, maybe gets on a large
> passenger liner and goes to another major world. Everybody who comes
> in close proximity with him takes the disease with them, to other
> worlds and starports where they spread it as well, to other people
> ... The players are employed by an intelligence organization that has
> gotten some inkling of this plot and wants to investigate further;
> when the players discover the true nature, what do they do?
>
> Why frightening? Substitute "Class A" starport with Heathrow, JFK, or
> Charles de Gaulle. How many people does the average traveller come
> into contact with, and how many places are those people going? I
> vaguely recall hearing of a government experiment many years ago,
> where people getting on the subway in NY at one station were secretly
> dusted with a fluorescent powder. The idea was to see how quickly and
> how far a biological agent could be spread from a single point by
> terrorists. Answer: frighteningly fast to everywhere in NY.
>

Dave,

You haven't by chance been reading 'Executive Order' by Tom Clancy, have
you.  It deals, very realistically
with just this sort of thing.  I won't give the book away, but be very
leary of people carrying cans of shaving
cream to convention halls.

Kerby

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #278
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, March 16 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 279



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: An Idle Thought
Re:Pronunciation of Regina
T Shirts
Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
TNE GL HEAP
Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry
Re: Mass Detectors
Re: X-boats
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: T Shirts
andy slack reading list
SPOILER! Grrrr! WAS Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Andy Slack
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: SPOILER! Grrrr! WAS Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Andy Slack)
Re: Passenger and freight cost
Re: Starship expenses
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper
Re: T Shirts
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Passenger and freight cost)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:10:55 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: An Idle Thought

"Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com> writes:
>On a side note Rob, didn't I see somewhere that you use Corel Draw for
>mapping, or maybe it was some one else. Anyone using Corel (I'm on ver. 6)
>contact me please about swapping plans etc.

That was someone else. I used SuperPaint, although when I get my new Mac
(hopefully this month) I'll be converting to something a bit more
up-to-date.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:13:47 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re:Pronunciation of Regina

Douglas Sinclair <eem2ds@ee.surrey.ac.uk> writes:
>Just to throw more fuel on the fire, there's a city in Saskatchewan called
>Regina. 

True. Saskatchewan also has a city called Saskatoon (where I grew up),
which is also a planet in the Solomani Rim. I figured it was named by some
homesick grasshopper during one of the Interstellar Wars.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:05:43 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: T Shirts

Bloo:

>I don't know about the Pony Express, but a black T-shirt having across the top
>the thin red line and "Traveller" across it in italics, just like the LBB. Now
>that would be very, very cool!  Put the Free Trade Beowulf Dialogue on the
>back.  I'll take 2.I'm getting goose pimples thinking about it.  If you walked
>around GenCon with one of these on, you'd get a lot of attention, and
>hopefully, a lot of sales.

I have one of these from the GDW days, ca. 1982 or so. 

Plans are in the works for a GURPS Traveller T-shirt.

Guess what design _I_ proposed?

Loren Wiseman

PS: I am booted upstairs: I am now the Marketing Director for Steve Jackson
Games. Pray for me...

Better yet, buy lots of GURPS Traveller and tell all your friends. 

LKW

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 01:00:42 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

I'm wrong on both spellings.  

>Actually it was a military coup.  His massive incompetence in the Third
>Frontier War led to his own Guard forcing him to abdicate.  This was after,
>of course, they found him cowering in his bathroom.

Is that canon and if so where did that info come from?  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:05:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 08:51:49 -0800
> From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
> 
> >[Snippage of a hilarious parody]

Thanks...wasn't sure how well that'd play. :)

> >[ You see, we Angelenos *like* a little excitement... :) ]
> 
> There was even something poetic about <italic>Mt. Wilshire</italic> from
> the movie <italic>Volcano</italic>!

Oh, god yes!  I saw that with an LA audience, and everybody was cheering
and shouting and generally very much in favor of the whole idea.  The only
part that sobered everybody up as the predawn earthquake...that hit a bit
too close to recent memory, I think.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:18:01 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: TNE GL HEAP

A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE, a
RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but such a
device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had been
made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough energy to
blast through that much armour ( the side of an APC, but does sod all-damage
to the occupant of someone in a combat environment suit, (which at higher
ctech levels is probably proof againts burst damage).  Interestingly, if the
round did penetrate a thinly armoured vehicle, it vwould probably cause a
major damage, and seriously injure two crew.  Certainly current 40mm HE
rounds that I have used are about as dangerous as rocks, but if you actually
get it into conbtact?  I think that the problem lies in the calculation of
the concussion damage in FF&S for small calibre HE/HEAP rounds.  By the way
I have always taken it that personal armour provides protection sometimes
against fragments, but not concussion, is this correct.  What do you think?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:53:47 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

>All the talk on x-boats, scouts, traders has got me wondering how many
>ship captains would be required to file a *flight* plan and who would be
>responsible to ensure that it in fact happend the way it was planned.

Back to my previous post that LS cost is mostly medical/accident insurance
required for Imperial starships. IMTU all ships MUST file flightplans one
jump at a time and these are forwarded through x-boats and couriers to
subsector capitals. Failure to file flightplans forfeits your insurance
collection ability as well as any rescue attempts. All ports have
transponders just as ships (even E-ports) so you have to be sneaky to get
around.

As flightplans are secret and should be so for business competitional
reasons a major part of adventuring IMTU is bribing/stealing/deducting
flightplans and avoiding/falsifying/tampering the same.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:53:44 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Mass Detectors

>Now that I think about it, I rather suspect that mass detectors being
>based on gravity *differential*, probably work on an inverse cube law,
>just like tidal forces. That means that the sun is a *really* weak
>source. But that's just a guess.

Sorry about my choice of words. All sensors BUT mass det get a huge
reduction of sensitivity when staring at the sun. You might be right about
mass detectors being inverse cube based which is nice; they could be really
sensitive up close (to the point of mapping out the interiors of ships at
close range) and drop off somewhat faster than passives but much slower
than actives. Hmm need to think about what that'll do to my canon.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:53:52 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: X-boats

>If you want to be consitent with the Traveller background, you
>really need to presume that even in jump space, you need a conscious
>pilot.  Otherwise the space lanes would be full of automatic
>cargo carriers.
>

Conscious Astrogator right?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:39:51 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Volker A. Greimann wrote:
> anything. On the other hand, nothing is done when in china, peaceful
> protestors are rolled down by tanks, no liberation forces try to free
> tibet. You are using one measurement here and another there. Hussein was

There is no oil, or anything else worth fighting, for USA, in Tibet. Only
oppessed people.. 

B-| ... 

Mikko Parviainen
- -- 
Teach kids the value of a dollar, give them a dime.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 06:12:09 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: T Shirts

GDW GAMES wrote:

> Bloo:
>
> >I don't know about the Pony Express, but a black T-shirt having across the top
> >the thin red line and "Traveller" across it in italics, just like the LBB. Now
> >that would be very, very cool!  Put the Free Trade Beowulf Dialogue on the
> >back.  I'll take 2.I'm getting goose pimples thinking about it.  If you walked
> >around GenCon with one of these on, you'd get a lot of attention, and
> >hopefully, a lot of sales.
>
> I have one of these from the GDW days, ca. 1982 or so.
>
> Plans are in the works for a GURPS Traveller T-shirt.

I knew it.  I think a companion set of both would be ideal.  One simply has the
CT Traveller logo and red line with the Free Trader Beowulf dialogue (from the
Beowulf's point of view).  The other has Gurps:Traveller logo on the front, and
the companion dialogue broadcast to the Beowulf.  T-Shirt Bookends.

> Guess what design _I_ proposed?
>
> Loren Wiseman
>
> PS: I am booted upstairs: I am now the Marketing Director for Steve Jackson
> Games. Pray for me...

You'll let me know if y'all could use this Yankee-educated Texan and beta
playtester of Gurps as well as Auto-Dueling Association-mate of first Car Wars
AADA champion (of the infamous T.O.O.B.A.D. "Tulsa Overt Operators for the
Betterment of Auto Dueling) in your legal department.  Especially one versed in
copyright and trademark law.  :-)

(It couldn't hurt).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:55:09 +0000
From: "Andy Slack" <andyslack@unn.unisys.com>
Subject: andy slack reading list

Sorry for the delay in replying, I can only get to my email every week or
so at the moment...

Yes, I am that man.

My list of Traveller articles matches TC's [reassuring as memory starts to
go at my advanced age]. All of them are for Classic Traveller.

WD13-16  Expanding Universe 1-4.
WD20     Star Patrol
WD24     Backdrop of Stars *
WD25     Blowout!
WD34     Droids
WD36-39  An Introduction to Traveller *
WD40     Assignment: Survey!
WD41     The Snowbird Mystery
WD41     The Covert Survey Bureau
WD43     Vehicle Combat
WD49     A Fleeting Encounter
WD52     To Live Forever
WD57     The Staurni
WD61     The Motivated Traveller

The *'d ones are the ones I think were the best.

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:07:35 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: SPOILER! Grrrr! WAS Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Paul Kerby <ybrekp@mtco.com> wrote:

>You haven't by chance been reading 'Executive Order' by Tom Clancy, have
>you.  It deals, very realistically
>with just this sort of thing.  I won't give the book away, but be very
>leary of people carrying cans of shaving
>cream to convention halls.

Grrr! And I was waiting for the paperback to come out here in the UK! ;-)

Funny - I don't mind spoilers on Trav stuff (probably because I'm usually
refereeing the game) but on books and B5....

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:41:47 +0000
From: "Andy Slack" <andyslack@unn.unisys.com>
Subject: Andy Slack

To anyone trying to contact me by email - it may be a while before I reply
as I am working away from my base office and only able to check mail
intermittently. I will reply to all email, but it could take a week or so.

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:43:00 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: SPOILER! Grrrr! WAS Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?)

At 09:07 AM 3/16/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Paul Kerby <ybrekp@mtco.com> wrote:
>
>>You haven't by chance been reading 'Executive Order' by Tom Clancy, have
>>you.  It deals, very realistically
>>with just this sort of thing.  I won't give the book away, but be very
>>leary of people carrying cans of shaving
>>cream to convention halls.
>
>Grrr! And I was waiting for the paperback to come out here in the UK! ;-)
>
>Funny - I don't mind spoilers on Trav stuff (probably because I'm usually
>refereeing the game) but on books and B5....
>
>Dom
>
>------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
>"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
>notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
>just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
>invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
>--Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --
>
>
>
>
An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
<emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
do not send any more messages to this address.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:13:29 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Andy Slack)

At 01:41 PM 3/16/98 +0000, you wrote:
>To anyone trying to contact me by email - it may be a while before I reply
>as I am working away from my base office and only able to check mail
>intermittently. I will reply to all email, but it could take a week or so.
>
>Andy
>
>
>
>
An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
<emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
do not send any more messages to this address.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:14:59 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Passenger and freight cost

Anders Backman writes:
>What was the problem with my idea/handwave of "most of the 1 KCr a week
>being medical/accident/kidnapping insurance"?

Absolutely nothing, except that such expenses depend very much on local
conditions and should be explicit so that the Referee can take them into
account if (no, make that 'when') the players try to get around them. 
Also, it is not unimportant just what version of the handwave you chose
(for instance, if it is a government tax, then it is a criminal act to
avoid it, but OTOH it does not necessarily apply everywhere; if it is
insurance then it might merely be a stupid act to avoid it; if it is
accidence insurance, then it might vary with the age of the ship; etc.)

Anders Backman writes:
>If the high prices are due to mandatory insurance for accident/medical/
>pirates/kidnapping/allergies whatever and that you're required to have them
>if you want to use the Imperium wide High/Mid/Low passage system then
>traders that don't pay them will perhaps pay 100 Cr a week instead
>(10 Cr/week for LowPssg) but have a real hard time finding passengers.

If you can find people who will risk a 3% chance of death in order to
save Cr7,000, then I rather think you could find people willing to ride
without insurance to save Cr1000...
 
Walter G. Smith writes:

>What if a large number of the Jump-1 ships have been completely paid off?

Then either operating expenses and the risks of breakdowns for a 40 year old
ship are no greater than those for a brand new ship, in which case the
company who paid off the mortgage would be crazy to sell them, or operating
expenses and risks of breakdowns are big enough to make it a better deal to
sell it and buy a new ship, in which case it is _more_ expensive to run the
old ship.

(What happens is, IMO, that an old ship is cheaper to operate as long as no
major breakdowns occur, thus allowing freetraders to survive on marginal
routes until the day when the major breakdown does happen. Then they
usually go bankrupt and have to sell the ship to some other optimist. In
effect, the owner of an old ship is betting that he can save up enough
money to pay the inevitable repairs before they become necessary. Those
who win that gamble may grow rich; the rest goes bankrupt.)

>Remember that in TNE, many starships over a century old are still running
>*without* access to regular and proper maintenance. If the lost-in-service
>rate was low enough for all those Free and Far Traders out there (not to
>mention the aging but reliable jump-1 superfreighters) then you might have\
>some economic viability for low-jump ships. 

No one has claimed that there will not be any use for jump-1 ships, merely
that they won't be used on long hauls. For a 1 parsec route a jump-1 ship
beats a higher-jump ship any day.

>Let's say you're moving lanthanum ore from a low-pop planet to a high-pop
>planet. The mines can produce one shipload of ore a week. You have 
>enough jump-1 bulk freighters on your paid-off list to have a ship show up
>at the mines once a week, and move the lanthanum along a jump-1 main
>to the high-pop planet. Once you have the pipeline started, you will have a 
>cargo arrive at the high-pop world once a week. Yes, you could do it with
>half (or less) as many high-jump freighters, but as long as the item isn't
>perishable or time-sensitive these slowpokes will be much cheaper.

But equally old jump-3 ships will be still cheaper.

>It would also be less attractive to pirates - they might grab a jump-3 ship
>for the drives, would they bother with a jump-1 ship?

Since even an old jump-1 ship can be worth 10-15 megacredits, I'd say the
answer is yes (assuming for purposes of arguments that there is a pirate
in the first place). Of course, a jump-3 ship will be more valuable, so it
would be more attractive. But not to the point where the pirate couldn't
be bothered to capture the jump-1 ship.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:34:12 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Starship expenses

Leonard Erickson writes:

>> ...if it is a true expense (ie. not just someone with a monopoly
>>jacking up the price unconciously) then the same apply for artificial
>>environments everywhere, and it suddenly become more than 15 times as
>>expensive to live on an airless world or in space as it does on a world
>>with a breathable atmosphere. Which agrees rather badly with a lot of
>>background details.
> 
>Please note that it's *easier* to do life support for a large station
>than for a ship.

OK. Point taken. 

>>And if the food isn't used it can be served to the next passenger.
> 
>You aren't going to get away with serving "canned food" to High passengers.

I could give you an argument about that (in fact, I'm going to; see below),
but that's exactly one of the reasons I find the rule very implausible: the
life support cost is exactly the same for crewmembers, Middle, and High
passengers. Now, does that really make sense to you?

>You'll be serving them fresh food. Which you can't count on
>being able to use next trip.

That very much depends on your choice of food. Even TL 8 food preservation
techniques allow you to store some food for a long time with no appreciable
loss of quality. You may not get away with it for real fanatic epicures, but
otherwise you could. At higher TLs food preservation techniques can only get
better. And besides:
 
>This isn't an airliner. It's an ocean liner.

It appears to be everything from the QE2 to a brokendown Panamanian tramp
freighter. So how realistic is a uniform life support figure that covers
the food served on ships of so widely varying quality?

>And that means things like fresh food for the "first class" passengers.

_And_ the second class _and_ the crew...


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:56:53 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

At 10:05 PM 3/15/98 -0800, you wrote:

>Oh, god yes!  I saw that with an LA audience, and everybody was cheering
>and shouting and generally very much in favor of the whole idea.  The only
>part that sobered everybody up as the predawn earthquake...that hit a bit
>too close to recent memory, I think.

The other day, I was watching a local sports show which was previewing the
season for our two local Major League teams (The San Francisco Giants and
the Oakland A's.)  The commentator, who is new to the area, made the remark
that a World Series meeting between the two teams wasn't impossible, and
that such a meeting would "rock the bay."  Embarrassed silence from
everybody else on the set.

The last time the Giants and the A's face each other in the Series, we had
a 7.1 earthquake just before game 3.
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
|----------------------------------------|
| "The best tank terrain is that without |
|  anti-tank weapons."                   |
|            -Russian Military Doctrine  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:14:56 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper

At 01:00 AM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:

>>Actually it was a military coup.  His massive incompetence in the Third
>>Frontier War led to his own Guard forcing him to abdicate.  This was after,
>>of course, they found him cowering in his bathroom.
>
>Is that canon and if so where did that info come from?  

The Travellers' Digest, issue 9, page 20.  In the article on the Imperial
Guard it says:

"The Guard remained free of politics until 989 when senior Guard commanders
under General Nicolai Dienne forced the abdication of Emperor Styryx in
favor of Emperor Gavin, his eldest son.  This palace coup was supported by
the Imperial General Staff and by most of the Imperial Armed Forces because
of Styryx's bungling in the conduct and settlement of the Third Frontier
War.  The coup was not bloodless.  Styryx's IISS bodyguard remained loyal
to him and were killed during a brief firefight with the Aslan Guard.
Styryx was found cowering in his personal fresher and was forced to sign
his abdication at the point of General Dienne's gauss pistol."

I imagine the first thing Dienne did after Gavin's coronation was submit
his resigination.  Even if his acts were the right thing to do, he did
violate his oath to the emperor.
- --
+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
| "Strategy is the art of making use of time  |
|  and space.  I am less concerned about the  |
|  latter than the former.  Space we can      |
|  recover, lost time never."                 |
|         -Napoleon Bonaparte, French soldier |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:01:41 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: T Shirts

At 12:05 AM 3/16/98 EST, Loren wrote:

>I have one of these from the GDW days, ca. 1982 or so. 

Heh.  When I was 14, I had a Traveller T-shirt made at a local custom shirt
shop.  I wore it so much, and tread Traveller constantly, that a guy at
school stopped trying to remember my name and just called me "Traveller."

The next year, I had a Tavrchedle shirt done.  The clerk asked me if it was
obscene, saying he couldn't do obscene messages.  The shirt he had just
finished had "eat shit and die" in french.

>PS: I am booted upstairs: I am now the Marketing Director for Steve Jackson
>Games. Pray for me...

Expect a mysterious phone call.  You now qualify for the Templers.  <FNORD>

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "I'm just like anybody else, I want |
|  to be a non-conformist too."       |
|                      -Lenny Bruce   |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:38:28 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Passenger and freight cost)

At 04:14 PM 3/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Anders Backman writes:
>>What was the problem with my idea/handwave of "most of the 1 KCr a week
>>being medical/accident/kidnapping insurance"?
>
>Absolutely nothing, except that such expenses depend very much on local
>conditions and should be explicit so that the Referee can take them into
>account if (no, make that 'when') the players try to get around them. 
>Also, it is not unimportant just what version of the handwave you chose
>(for instance, if it is a government tax, then it is a criminal act to
>avoid it, but OTOH it does not necessarily apply everywhere; if it is
>insurance then it might merely be a stupid act to avoid it; if it is
>accidence insurance, then it might vary with the age of the ship; etc.)
>
>Anders Backman writes:
>>If the high prices are due to mandatory insurance for accident/medical/
>>pirates/kidnapping/allergies whatever and that you're required to have them
>>if you want to use the Imperium wide High/Mid/Low passage system then
>>traders that don't pay them will perhaps pay 100 Cr a week instead
>>(10 Cr/week for LowPssg) but have a real hard time finding passengers.
>
>If you can find people who will risk a 3% chance of death in order to
>save Cr7,000, then I rather think you could find people willing to ride
>without insurance to save Cr1000...
> 
>Walter G. Smith writes:
>
>>What if a large number of the Jump-1 ships have been completely paid off?
>
>Then either operating expenses and the risks of breakdowns for a 40 year old
>ship are no greater than those for a brand new ship, in which case the
>company who paid off the mortgage would be crazy to sell them, or operating
>expenses and risks of breakdowns are big enough to make it a better deal to
>sell it and buy a new ship, in which case it is _more_ expensive to run the
>old ship.
>
>(What happens is, IMO, that an old ship is cheaper to operate as long as no
>major breakdowns occur, thus allowing freetraders to survive on marginal
>routes until the day when the major breakdown does happen. Then they
>usually go bankrupt and have to sell the ship to some other optimist. In
>effect, the owner of an old ship is betting that he can save up enough
>money to pay the inevitable repairs before they become necessary. Those
>who win that gamble may grow rich; the rest goes bankrupt.)
>
>>Remember that in TNE, many starships over a century old are still running
>>*without* access to regular and proper maintenance. If the lost-in-service
>>rate was low enough for all those Free and Far Traders out there (not to
>>mention the aging but reliable jump-1 superfreighters) then you might have\
>>some economic viability for low-jump ships. 
>
>No one has claimed that there will not be any use for jump-1 ships, merely
>that they won't be used on long hauls. For a 1 parsec route a jump-1 ship
>beats a higher-jump ship any day.
>
>>Let's say you're moving lanthanum ore from a low-pop planet to a high-pop
>>planet. The mines can produce one shipload of ore a week. You have 
>>enough jump-1 bulk freighters on your paid-off list to have a ship show up
>>at the mines once a week, and move the lanthanum along a jump-1 main
>>to the high-pop planet. Once you have the pipeline started, you will have a 
>>cargo arrive at the high-pop world once a week. Yes, you could do it with
>>half (or less) as many high-jump freighters, but as long as the item isn't
>>perishable or time-sensitive these slowpokes will be much cheaper.
>
>But equally old jump-3 ships will be still cheaper.
>
>>It would also be less attractive to pirates - they might grab a jump-3 ship
>>for the drives, would they bother with a jump-1 ship?
>
>Since even an old jump-1 ship can be worth 10-15 megacredits, I'd say the
>answer is yes (assuming for purposes of arguments that there is a pirate
>in the first place). Of course, a jump-3 ship will be more valuable, so it
>would be more attractive. But not to the point where the pirate couldn't
>be bothered to capture the jump-1 ship.
>
>
>      Hans Rancke
>University of Copenhagen
>     rancke@diku.dk
>------------
>        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
>         events based on the individual situation."
>                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8
>
>
An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
<emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
do not send any more messages to this address.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #279
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, March 16 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 280



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Starship expenses)
Re: T Shirts
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)
Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)
Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: God plays friendly game of "drop  the rock"?)
Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)
Lost in time
Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe
Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry
Traveller T-Shirts
Pronunciations
Galanglic & Pronunciation
More on the Traveller T-Shirts
New things in Traveller
Re: TNE GL HEAP
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: TNE GL HEAP
Re: Lost in time
Military protocol question...
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Lost in time)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: More on the Traveller T-Shirts)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:57:17 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Starship expenses)

At 04:34 PM 3/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>>> ...if it is a true expense (ie. not just someone with a monopoly
>>>jacking up the price unconciously) then the same apply for artificial
>>>environments everywhere, and it suddenly become more than 15 times as
>>>expensive to live on an airless world or in space as it does on a world
>>>with a breathable atmosphere. Which agrees rather badly with a lot of
>>>background details.
>> 
>>Please note that it's *easier* to do life support for a large station
>>than for a ship.
>
>OK. Point taken. 
>
>>>And if the food isn't used it can be served to the next passenger.
>> 
>>You aren't going to get away with serving "canned food" to High passengers.
>
>I could give you an argument about that (in fact, I'm going to; see below),
>but that's exactly one of the reasons I find the rule very implausible: the
>life support cost is exactly the same for crewmembers, Middle, and High
>passengers. Now, does that really make sense to you?
>
>>You'll be serving them fresh food. Which you can't count on
>>being able to use next trip.
>
>That very much depends on your choice of food. Even TL 8 food preservation
>techniques allow you to store some food for a long time with no appreciable
>loss of quality. You may not get away with it for real fanatic epicures, but
>otherwise you could. At higher TLs food preservation techniques can only get
>better. And besides:
> 
>>This isn't an airliner. It's an ocean liner.
>
>It appears to be everything from the QE2 to a brokendown Panamanian tramp
>freighter. So how realistic is a uniform life support figure that covers
>the food served on ships of so widely varying quality?
>
>>And that means things like fresh food for the "first class" passengers.
>
>_And_ the second class _and_ the crew...
>
>
>      Hans Rancke
>University of Copenhagen
>     rancke@diku.dk
>------------
>        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
>         events based on the individual situation."
>                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8
>
>
>
An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
<emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
do not send any more messages to this address.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:59:22 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: T Shirts

>>I have one of these from the GDW days, ca. 1982 or so.
>
>Heh.  When I was 14, I had a Traveller T-shirt made at a local custom shirt
>shop.  I wore it so much, and tread Traveller constantly, that a guy at
>school stopped trying to remember my name and just called me "Traveller."

Those TMLers fortunate enough to visit Roskilde festival may have noticed
our 1m x 2m Imperial starburst flag. It's black with a red starburst single
sheet double sided ie a real flag.

People asking us which bands logo we carry are replied "This is the banner
for the third Imperium and if you do not know what that means we wont tell
you".


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:46:52 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Vilani Domination WAS  Re: Chirper)

At 08:14 AM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 01:00 AM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:
>
>>>Actually it was a military coup.  His massive incompetence in the Third
>>>Frontier War led to his own Guard forcing him to abdicate.  This was after,
>>>of course, they found him cowering in his bathroom.
>>
>>Is that canon and if so where did that info come from?  
>
>The Travellers' Digest, issue 9, page 20.  In the article on the Imperial
>Guard it says:
>
>"The Guard remained free of politics until 989 when senior Guard commanders
>under General Nicolai Dienne forced the abdication of Emperor Styryx in
>favor of Emperor Gavin, his eldest son.  This palace coup was supported by
>the Imperial General Staff and by most of the Imperial Armed Forces because
>of Styryx's bungling in the conduct and settlement of the Third Frontier
>War.  The coup was not bloodless.  Styryx's IISS bodyguard remained loyal
>to him and were killed during a brief firefight with the Aslan Guard.
>Styryx was found cowering in his personal fresher and was forced to sign
>his abdication at the point of General Dienne's gauss pistol."
>
>I imagine the first thing Dienne did after Gavin's coronation was submit
>his resigination.  Even if his acts were the right thing to do, he did
>violate his oath to the emperor.
>--
>+---------------------------------------------+
>| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
>|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
>+---------------------------------------------+
>| "Strategy is the art of making use of time  |
>|  and space.  I am less concerned about the  |
>|  latter than the former.  Space we can      |
>|  recover, lost time never."                 |
>|         -Napoleon Bonaparte, French soldier |
>+---------------------------------------------+
>
>
An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
<emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
do not send any more messages to this address.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:46:48 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)

At 08:01 AM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 12:05 AM 3/16/98 EST, Loren wrote:
>
>>I have one of these from the GDW days, ca. 1982 or so. 
>
>Heh.  When I was 14, I had a Traveller T-shirt made at a local custom shirt
>shop.  I wore it so much, and tread Traveller constantly, that a guy at
>school stopped trying to remember my name and just called me "Traveller."
>
>The next year, I had a Tavrchedle shirt done.  The clerk asked me if it was
>obscene, saying he couldn't do obscene messages.  The shirt he had just
>finished had "eat shit and die" in french.
>
>>PS: I am booted upstairs: I am now the Marketing Director for Steve Jackson
>>Games. Pray for me...
>
>Expect a mysterious phone call.  You now qualify for the Templers.  <FNORD>
>
>--
>
>+-------------------------------------+
>| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
>|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
>+-------------------------------------+
>| "I'm just like anybody else, I want |
>|  to be a non-conformist too."       |
>|                      -Lenny Bruce   |
>+-------------------------------------+
>
>
An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
<emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
do not send any more messages to this address.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:46:49 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?)

At 07:56 AM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 10:05 PM 3/15/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>Oh, god yes!  I saw that with an LA audience, and everybody was cheering
>>and shouting and generally very much in favor of the whole idea.  The only
>>part that sobered everybody up as the predawn earthquake...that hit a bit
>>too close to recent memory, I think.
>
>The other day, I was watching a local sports show which was previewing the
>season for our two local Major League teams (The San Francisco Giants and
>the Oakland A's.)  The commentator, who is new to the area, made the remark
>that a World Series meeting between the two teams wasn't impossible, and
>that such a meeting would "rock the bay."  Embarrassed silence from
>everybody else on the set.
>
>The last time the Giants and the A's face each other in the Series, we had
>a 7.1 earthquake just before game 3.
>+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
>| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
>|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
>|----------------------------------------|
>| "The best tank terrain is that without |
>|  anti-tank weapons."                   |
>|            -Russian Military Doctrine  |
>+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
>
>
An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
<emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
do not send any more messages to this address.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:15:56 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)

At 05:59 PM 3/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>>I have one of these from the GDW days, ca. 1982 or so.
>>
>>Heh.  When I was 14, I had a Traveller T-shirt made at a local custom shirt
>>shop.  I wore it so much, and tread Traveller constantly, that a guy at
>>school stopped trying to remember my name and just called me "Traveller."
>
>Those TMLers fortunate enough to visit Roskilde festival may have noticed
>our 1m x 2m Imperial starburst flag. It's black with a red starburst single
>sheet double sided ie a real flag.
>
>People asking us which bands logo we carry are replied "This is the banner
>for the third Imperium and if you do not know what that means we wont tell
>you".
>
>
>/Anders Backman
>Aniware AB
>anders.backman@aniware.se
>
>
>
>
An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
<emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
do not send any more messages to this address.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:22:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)

Emory Dennis wrote; 
> At 05:59 PM 3/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
> >>>I have one of these from the GDW days, ca. 1982 or so.
> An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
> <emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
> do not send any more messages to this address.


Can we get this jerk* removed from the mailing list *please*?

Thank you

*I wouldn't call him a jerk; he's obviously been signed up for the list 
by someone else. But his damn auto-reply is spamming the list, and *that* 
qualifies him as a jek, by definition (Spam = jerk)

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:37:12 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: God plays friendly game of "drop  the rock"?)

> An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
> <emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
> do not send any more messages to this address.

Are we going to get one of these with every message today??  (sigh)

douglas


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:46:12 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)

Scott Taylor wrote:

> Emory Dennis wrote;
> > At 05:59 PM 3/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
> > >>>I have one of these from the GDW days, ca. 1982 or so.
> > An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
> > <emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
> > do not send any more messages to this address.
>
> Can we get this jerk* removed from the mailing list *please*?
>
> Thank you
>
> *I wouldn't call him a jerk; he's obviously been signed up for the list
> by someone else. But his damn auto-reply is spamming the list, and *that*
> qualifies him as a jek, by definition (Spam = jerk)
>
> Scott Taylor
> Freelancer for Hire
> Have Mac, Will Travel

 It seems to me I've seen his name around the TML before.  He may have just
started a filter and doesn't realize what has happened.  I've forwarded a
message to the postmaster at Netcom with a request to notify him of the problem.

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:43:51 AST/ADT
From: "Gary MacKeigan" <GARYMAC@cbbc.cbbc.ns.ca>
Subject: Lost in time

I'm new to Traveller, as is the group I GM for.  I just have a few 
questions for anyone who would wish to answer.

1.  Based on the information in the T4 main rulebook, what year should 
I start my campaign in?

2.  Is there some reason why there are worlds only two parsecs away from 
the Imperium that have not been contacted in hundreds of years, as 
indicated in the back of the main rulebook?  Why?

3.  Does the Imperium encompass more worlds than are indicated in the 
back of the rulebook (ie. in the subsectors above Core and to the left)?

If someone would answer these questions for me, or point me in the 
direction to find my own answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Gary MacKeigan
gary@cbbc.cbbc.ns.ca

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:45:44 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

Andrew Smith wrote:

> Again, I agree. It's a matter of what you decide is important. And this
> thread has been good for one thing: it's made me think harder about 3D
> strategy. My campaign is set in a volume which is pretty easy to cross as
> there are a preponderance of routes through junk systems. At first glance
> this suggests keeping the balance of sector forces in reserve, scattering
> SDBs as harrassment forces everywhere, and playing submarines with your war
> fleets. Any other ideas?

In MTU, we (the PC's) are not involved in world politics perse. That is
not to say that we cannot or will not become involved, but whatever
involvement we do have is on a much smaller scale (espionage activities,
snatch and grab, extraction, investigate and report, I think you get the
idea). This is easier for me to control and allows me to keep the party
small(er). My (our) ship carries variously from 55 to 65 multi-talented
characters and aliens. We have 3 main PC's and variably 3 to 9 NPC's
who, because of circumstance change from episode to episode. Some of the
NPC's are added as a result of episodes we have, and any NPC can become
a PC if the game needs the talents of that particular NPC. This gives my
players a chance to role-play many or various alien type's. The minimum
required to operate the ship (last resort) would be possibly 26-30 so as
crews are lost for whatever reason, we are forced to locate
replacements, which means visiting and interacting with whatever is
dirtside. The band as a whole are a roving bunch of you name it,
galivanting around in space, getting into and out all sorts of mischief,
and generally having a blast.
 
I like the 3D idea. I like the traveller game in all its forms, good or
bad, and I will try to adapt my game to fit (in my way or what I
consider someone else's better way), if that's what the players ask for. 

Jim
Have fun in 3D

PS: sorry for seemingly taking so long to respond, but I have had an
extremely busy last 4 days.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:02:24 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

Anders Backman wrote:
> 
[snip original querey]
> IMTU all ships MUST file flightplans one
> jump at a time and these are forwarded through x-boats and couriers to
> subsector capitals. Failure to file flightplans forfeits your insurance
> collection ability as well as any rescue attempts. All ports have
> transponders just as ships (even E-ports) so you have to be sneaky to get
> around.
> 
> As flightplans are secret and should be so for business competitional
> reasons a major part of adventuring IMTU is bribing/stealing/deducting
> flightplans and avoiding/falsifying/tampering the same.
> 
That appears to be good and sound reason for adding it to my game. As I
had said, I hadn't really given it much thought before. "What,s this,
they want us to file another form. Will this never end???"

Thanks 

Jim

------------------------------

Date: 16 Mar 1998 11:58 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Traveller T-Shirts

I prefer the not-too-flashy T-Shirt idea;  however, younger
gamers might prefer a cool starship.

I like the dark-grey-black Imperial sunburst idea, and the Poni 
Express motif sounds pretty cool too -- the one with the six-legged 
dinosaur-like critter silhouette on it, yes?

I'd take one of each.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: 16 Mar 1998 12:04 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Pronunciations

And of course, noone in our group can say "Jae Tellona" without
breaking into song: "J-J-J-Jae Tellona".

------------------------------

Date: 16 Mar 1998 11:52 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Galanglic & Pronunciation

Kenji (rhymes with "Benji") quoth:

>Regarding all these various pronunciation ideas and arguments -- I think
>the reasonable answer is that they're all equally right.  Galanglic, we're
>told, has four or five major dialects.

Thus we have an informal class system based on accent and dialect.

"Howdy y'all!  Boy, this here core sector shore ain't nothin' like the
 Spinnard Marches, let me tell you!"

"Oh wonnerful.  Wee haf more of those dreadfool Tourists from beyond
 the Reeft again."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:51:29 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: More on the Traveller T-Shirts

Okay.  The response has been pretty good so far, so I may continue with the
idea.  Some of you have already brought up some designs you'd like to see. 
Any other ideas?  No guarantees that we'll use any specific ideas, but, I'd
like to get a feel for what people would like to see.

I think right now I'm leaning towards the Beowulf design due to general
demand, and I'm pretty sure that I'm also going to go through with the
"Poni Express" IISS logo as well (mainly because it's a shirt _I_ want to
own).  But, any and all ideas are welcome.


Chris Seamans
semo@pil.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:11:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@unipress.com>
Subject: New things in Traveller

Hi: 

I've been away from the list for awhile. The last time I was here, 
Imperium Games was only publishing modules / adventures taking place in 
the early (pre ) years of the Imperium. Have they put out anything for the
third Imperium or the rebellion yet? 

Are they still a living company? 

Matthew

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:31:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: TNE GL HEAP

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:

> A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE, a
> RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
> personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but such a
> device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had been
> made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough energy to
> blast through that much armour

It might not be appropriate to suggest this (since you're asking about
TNE), but Striker 1 had a personnel damage system that was scaled entirely
by weapon penetration (damage dice were not used).  Let me know if you
want more info; it's a very simple system (2 TNE penetration pts = 1 cm of
hard steel, used in Striker 1 for armor and pen ratings).  Striker 2 (the
TNE version) handles personnel damage in an aggregate fashion, so not much
help there.

I don't know how to fix the TNE system, sorry.


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:40:30 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

>> anything. On the other hand, nothing is done when in china, peaceful
>> protestors are rolled down by tanks, no liberation forces try to free
>> tibet. You are using one measurement here and another there. Hussein was
>
>There is no oil, or anything else worth fighting, for USA, in Tibet. Only
>oppessed people.. 

    There is no US national interest in that, no. It's enlightened self-
interest at best and that's the way it should be when considering the lives of
our personnel.  Especially when it would start the biggest mother of a war
that's possible right now.   If you're itching to fight China... go right
ahead.  

ob Trav...  Is there any instance of Precollapse societies ever committing
ships or forces for human rights purposes?  Postcollapse has the RC doing many
bootstrap operations...  Are there any canon Imperial examples?

Gary 

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:57:49 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: TNE GL HEAP

At 11:31 AM 16/03/98 -0800, Clark wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:
>
>> A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE, a
>> RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
>> personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but such a
>> device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had been
>> made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough
energy to
>> blast through that much armour
>
>It might not be appropriate to suggest this (since you're asking about
>TNE), but Striker 1 had a personnel damage system that was scaled entirely
>by weapon penetration (damage dice were not used).  Let me know if you
>want more info; it's a very simple system (2 TNE penetration pts = 1 cm of
>hard steel, used in Striker 1 for armor and pen ratings).  Striker 2 (the
>TNE version) handles personnel damage in an aggregate fashion, so not much
>help there.
>
>I don't know how to fix the TNE system, sorry.

The TW:2000 fix was to apply either the penetration or double the
concussion in dice to the target. TNE seems to sort of do this by adding
the 'contact' concussion rule, which didn't exist in TW:2000, but as has
been mentioned that isn't very much in the case of little rounds.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:19:43 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Lost in time

Gary MacKeigan wrote:

> I'm new to Traveller, as is the group I GM for.  I just have a few
> questions for anyone who would wish to answer.

Welcome.  Make sure you read the FAQ for this newsgroup.  I'm not ashamed to
admit that I don't know what is being discussed here half the time as I only
have access to T4 materials (woe is me).

> 1.  Based on the information in the T4 main rulebook, what year should
> I start my campaign in?

Get the Milieu 0: Campaign Hardcover.  Start your campaign somewhere between
Year -5 or so and Year 200.  I've started mine at Year 0.  New Emperor, New
Imperium, all kinds of new problems.  Although the T4 book should be good
for any era.  BTW, make sure to get the T4 errata book.

> 2.  Is there some reason why there are worlds only two parsecs away from
> the Imperium that have not been contacted in hundreds of years, as
> indicated in the back of the main rulebook?  Why?

I would ignore that.  Its not accurate with regard to anything else that I
am aware of.  Unless of course you want to start your own universe.

> 3.  Does the Imperium encompass more worlds than are indicated in the
> back of the rulebook (ie. in the subsectors above Core and to the left)?

Same as above.  And yes.  More than a few.  If you get the Milieu 0:
Campaign, there's a set of charts that documents expansion of the Imperium
in terms of percentages of a sector's systems integrated, independent,
contacted and not-contacted.

> If someone would answer these questions for me, or point me in the
> direction to find my own answers, I would greatly appreciate it.
>
> Gary MacKeigan
> gary@cbbc.cbbc.ns.ca

  Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:29:12 -0600
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Military protocol question...

I'm working on a Traveller-based short story (which I may post to the list
later, if it turns out okay...), and I was wondering: how is a female
command officer addressed? Sir, or Ma'am?

The main character is a female captain of a destroyer (equal opportunity in
the future!).

Thanks!

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your  |
| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your |
| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love     |
| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your  |
| lives be blessed by the beauty that has touched mine.              |
|                    - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:30:28 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Lost in time)

At 02:43 PM 3/16/98 AST/ADT, you wrote:
>I'm new to Traveller, as is the group I GM for.  I just have a few 
>questions for anyone who would wish to answer.
>
>1.  Based on the information in the T4 main rulebook, what year should 
>I start my campaign in?
>
>2.  Is there some reason why there are worlds only two parsecs away from 
>the Imperium that have not been contacted in hundreds of years, as 
>indicated in the back of the main rulebook?  Why?
>
>3.  Does the Imperium encompass more worlds than are indicated in the 
>back of the rulebook (ie. in the subsectors above Core and to the left)?
>
>If someone would answer these questions for me, or point me in the 
>direction to find my own answers, I would greatly appreciate it.
>
>Gary MacKeigan
>gary@cbbc.cbbc.ns.ca
>
>
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In the future, please authenticate subscription requests.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:30:33 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: More on the Traveller T-Shirts)

At 01:51 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Okay.  The response has been pretty good so far, so I may continue with the
>idea.  Some of you have already brought up some designs you'd like to see. 
>Any other ideas?  No guarantees that we'll use any specific ideas, but, I'd
>like to get a feel for what people would like to see.
>
>I think right now I'm leaning towards the Beowulf design due to general
>demand, and I'm pretty sure that I'm also going to go through with the
>"Poni Express" IISS logo as well (mainly because it's a shirt _I_ want to
>own).  But, any and all ideas are welcome.
>
>
>Chris Seamans
>semo@pil.net
>
>
>
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------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #280
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, March 16 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 281



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Pronunciations)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: TNE GL HEAP)
Re: New things in Traveller
Re: TNE GL HEAP
Re: Military protocol question...
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Traveller T-Shirts)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: New things in Traveller)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Galanglic & Pronunciation)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: New things in Traveller)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: TNE GL HEAP)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Lost in time)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe)
Re: Military protocol question...
Re: Unsolicited Emails 
Re: Military protocol question...
Auction Last Call
TNE GL HEAP

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:30:26 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Pronunciations)

At 12:04 PM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:
>And of course, noone in our group can say "Jae Tellona" without
>breaking into song: "J-J-J-Jae Tellona".
>
>
>
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<emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
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In the future, please authenticate subscription requests.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:31:52 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: TNE GL HEAP)

At 08:57 AM 3/17/98 +1200, you wrote:
>At 11:31 AM 16/03/98 -0800, Clark wrote:
>>On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:
>>
>>> A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in
TNE, a
>>> RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
>>> personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but
such a
>>> device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had
been
>>> made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough
>energy to
>>> blast through that much armour
>>
>>It might not be appropriate to suggest this (since you're asking about
>>TNE), but Striker 1 had a personnel damage system that was scaled entirely
>>by weapon penetration (damage dice were not used).  Let me know if you
>>want more info; it's a very simple system (2 TNE penetration pts = 1 cm of
>>hard steel, used in Striker 1 for armor and pen ratings).  Striker 2 (the
>>TNE version) handles personnel damage in an aggregate fashion, so not much
>>help there.
>>
>>I don't know how to fix the TNE system, sorry.
>
>The TW:2000 fix was to apply either the penetration or double the
>concussion in dice to the target. TNE seems to sort of do this by adding
>the 'contact' concussion rule, which didn't exist in TW:2000, but as has
>been mentioned that isn't very much in the case of little rounds.
>
>
>-- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>   Palmerston North
>   New Zealand
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:07:11 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: New things in Traveller

Matthew Harelick wrote:

> Hi:
>
> I've been away from the list for awhile. The last time I was here,
> Imperium Games was only publishing modules / adventures taking place in
> the early (pre ) years of the Imperium. Have they put out anything for the
> third Imperium or the rebellion yet?
>
> Are they still a living company?
>
> Matthew

 There is a lot of debate over the vitality of IG...

M:0 is the current release - that consists of the period immediately after the
founding of the Imperium.

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:28:14 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE GL HEAP

Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> said;
>A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE, a
>RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
>personal damage.

Hmmm, Well Colin, in my own game I would say that if one were directly hit
by a 40mm RAM HEAP grenade outside of Battle Dress your friends would be
picking up little pieces of you from the floor and ceiling, walls, etc.
Inside Battle Dress the mess would be reduced, but the results (on a
penetrating hit that is) would be the same.

But you seem to favor a more 'gamey' solution, ok.

I see a couple of options.  The damage for that grenade was intended to be
applied to folk in the blast radius which, being a directed blast, can be
considered pretty minimal.  HEAP grenades are generally fired at something
other than a person (except, possibly, when in Battle Dress or equiv.).  So
I think the damage applied was for the person standing next to the actual
target but within the blast radius.  Fair enough.

If a person were within the penetrating cone of superheated plasma that is
generated by a HEAP warhead (40mm or not), that energy would go into their
body directly, and likely out the other side, leaving a hole which may be
inconvenient to continued internal organ operation.  Apply damage as though
the target were hit by a laser rifle at close range.

If the individual were wearing armor the effects are probably even worse.
A HEAP grenade is specifically designed to cause 'spalling' or flying
fragments on the inside of the vehicle being hit.  Applying this principle
to, say, battle dress, on a penetrating hit I would say that there were a
number of small fragments of armor bouncing around within the armored torso
of the target, causing considerable discomfort.  I guess the equivalent of
a shotgun blast in damage to the target (as though unarmored) at close
range would approximate the result.

In either case, and even if the shot does not penetrate, there should be a
considerable amount of kinetic energy involved, blowing the target in the
direction of travel of the grenade several meters (like, 2-4 and into any
intervening obstacles).  That character, if alive, should then be stunned
for at least a round, and be suffering from bruises and possible broken
ribs etc.

Now, one thing to remember is that launched grenades tend to have an arming
mechanism that depends on rotation.  The fuse arms after taking a certain
number of rotations after leaving the barrel.  This means you need a few
meters (anyone know how many? I would guess at least 5 meters) before the
grenade is armed.  I suppose someone with the appropriate skill could
modify them to allow quicker arming, but then again a person with that
skill may be too smart to do so.  In any case the upshot is that a RAM HEAP
grenade is *not* a good close in weapon.  Once you're no longer 'close in'
hitting a man-sized fast-moving object with a rocket propelled grenade
directly should be significantly harder to do (barring suprise, of course).

I had a character (Gregory MacGregor - and roll those R's) who spent whole
adventures carring nothing but a magazine fed 40mm grenade launcher (an M79
with a clip, basically).  Other characters reacted very quickly when he
said "duck".

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:35:57 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

At 02:29 PM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I'm working on a Traveller-based short story (which I may post to the list
>later, if it turns out okay...), and I was wondering: how is a female
>command officer addressed? Sir, or Ma'am?

Current United States protocol is to address superior officers according to
gender.  "Sir" for a male senior officer or "Ma'am" for a female.  As a
rule (in the Army at least) calling a senior by their rank is something of
an insult in casual conversation.

On the other hand, the Star Trek series seems to have occassions where
female officers were addressed as "Sir."  Of course, it took Star Trek
twenty years to even show us enlisted personal, so I can't really truet
them.
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Nothing concentrates the military mind  |
|  so much as the discovery that you have  |
|  walked into an ambush."                 |
|                      -Thomas Packenham   |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:30:35 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Traveller T-Shirts)

At 11:58 AM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:
>I prefer the not-too-flashy T-Shirt idea;  however, younger
>gamers might prefer a cool starship.
>
>I like the dark-grey-black Imperial sunburst idea, and the Poni 
>Express motif sounds pretty cool too -- the one with the six-legged 
>dinosaur-like critter silhouette on it, yes?
>
>I'd take one of each.
>
>Rob
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:30:56 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: New things in Traveller)

At 02:11 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi: 
>
>I've been away from the list for awhile. The last time I was here, 
>Imperium Games was only publishing modules / adventures taking place in 
>the early (pre ) years of the Imperium. Have they put out anything for the
>third Imperium or the rebellion yet? 
>
>Are they still a living company? 
>
>Matthew
>
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:30:37 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Galanglic & Pronunciation)

At 11:52 AM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:
>Kenji (rhymes with "Benji") quoth:
>
>>Regarding all these various pronunciation ideas and arguments -- I think
>>the reasonable answer is that they're all equally right.  Galanglic, we're
>>told, has four or five major dialects.
>
>Thus we have an informal class system based on accent and dialect.
>
>"Howdy y'all!  Boy, this here core sector shore ain't nothin' like the
> Spinnard Marches, let me tell you!"
>
>"Oh wonnerful.  Wee haf more of those dreadfool Tourists from beyond
> the Reeft again."
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:18:07 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: New things in Traveller)

At 01:07 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Matthew Harelick wrote:
>
>> Hi:
>>
>> I've been away from the list for awhile. The last time I was here,
>> Imperium Games was only publishing modules / adventures taking place in
>> the early (pre ) years of the Imperium. Have they put out anything for the
>> third Imperium or the rebellion yet?
>>
>> Are they still a living company?
>>
>> Matthew
>
> There is a lot of debate over the vitality of IG...
>
>M:0 is the current release - that consists of the period immediately after
the
>founding of the Imperium.
>
>--
>_________________________________________
>E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
>http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html
>
>Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
>__________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:31:30 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?)

At 02:40 PM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:
>>> anything. On the other hand, nothing is done when in china, peaceful
>>> protestors are rolled down by tanks, no liberation forces try to free
>>> tibet. You are using one measurement here and another there. Hussein was
>>
>>There is no oil, or anything else worth fighting, for USA, in Tibet. Only
>>oppessed people.. 
>
>    There is no US national interest in that, no. It's enlightened self-
>interest at best and that's the way it should be when considering the
lives of
>our personnel.  Especially when it would start the biggest mother of a war
>that's possible right now.   If you're itching to fight China... go right
>ahead.  
>
>ob Trav...  Is there any instance of Precollapse societies ever committing
>ships or forces for human rights purposes?  Postcollapse has the RC doing
many
>bootstrap operations...  Are there any canon Imperial examples?
>
>Gary 
>
>Gary
>
>
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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:30:36 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry)

At 10:02 AM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Anders Backman wrote:
>> 
>[snip original querey]
>> IMTU all ships MUST file flightplans one
>> jump at a time and these are forwarded through x-boats and couriers to
>> subsector capitals. Failure to file flightplans forfeits your insurance
>> collection ability as well as any rescue attempts. All ports have
>> transponders just as ships (even E-ports) so you have to be sneaky to get
>> around.
>> 
>> As flightplans are secret and should be so for business competitional
>> reasons a major part of adventuring IMTU is bribing/stealing/deducting
>> flightplans and avoiding/falsifying/tampering the same.
>> 
>That appears to be good and sound reason for adding it to my game. As I
>had said, I hadn't really given it much thought before. "What,s this,
>they want us to file another form. Will this never end???"
>
>Thanks 
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:31:21 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: TNE GL HEAP)

At 11:31 AM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:
>
>> A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE, a
>> RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
>> personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but such a
>> device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had been
>> made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough
energy to
>> blast through that much armour
>
>It might not be appropriate to suggest this (since you're asking about
>TNE), but Striker 1 had a personnel damage system that was scaled entirely
>by weapon penetration (damage dice were not used).  Let me know if you
>want more info; it's a very simple system (2 TNE penetration pts = 1 cm of
>hard steel, used in Striker 1 for armor and pen ratings).  Striker 2 (the
>TNE version) handles personnel damage in an aggregate fashion, so not much
>help there.
>
>I don't know how to fix the TNE system, sorry.
>
>
>Clark
>
>
>--
>"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:02:46 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)

At 02:29 PM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I'm working on a Traveller-based short story (which I may post to the list
>later, if it turns out okay...), and I was wondering: how is a female
>command officer addressed? Sir, or Ma'am?
>
>The main character is a female captain of a destroyer (equal opportunity in
>the future!).
>
>Thanks!
>
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Andrew Akins                                                       |
>| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
>| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your  |
>| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your |
>| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love     |
>| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your  |
>| lives be blessed by the beauty that has touched mine.              |
>|                    - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"              |
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:02:37 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Lost in time)

At 03:19 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Gary MacKeigan wrote:
>
>> I'm new to Traveller, as is the group I GM for.  I just have a few
>> questions for anyone who would wish to answer.
>
>Welcome.  Make sure you read the FAQ for this newsgroup.  I'm not ashamed to
>admit that I don't know what is being discussed here half the time as I only
>have access to T4 materials (woe is me).
>
>> 1.  Based on the information in the T4 main rulebook, what year should
>> I start my campaign in?
>
>Get the Milieu 0: Campaign Hardcover.  Start your campaign somewhere between
>Year -5 or so and Year 200.  I've started mine at Year 0.  New Emperor, New
>Imperium, all kinds of new problems.  Although the T4 book should be good
>for any era.  BTW, make sure to get the T4 errata book.
>
>> 2.  Is there some reason why there are worlds only two parsecs away from
>> the Imperium that have not been contacted in hundreds of years, as
>> indicated in the back of the main rulebook?  Why?
>
>I would ignore that.  Its not accurate with regard to anything else that I
>am aware of.  Unless of course you want to start your own universe.
>
>> 3.  Does the Imperium encompass more worlds than are indicated in the
>> back of the rulebook (ie. in the subsectors above Core and to the left)?
>
>Same as above.  And yes.  More than a few.  If you get the Milieu 0:
>Campaign, there's a set of charts that documents expansion of the Imperium
>in terms of percentages of a sector's systems integrated, independent,
>contacted and not-contacted.
>
>> If someone would answer these questions for me, or point me in the
>> direction to find my own answers, I would greatly appreciate it.
>>
>> Gary MacKeigan
>> gary@cbbc.cbbc.ns.ca
>
>  Bloo
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:30:30 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe)

At 08:45 AM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Andrew Smith wrote:
>
>> Again, I agree. It's a matter of what you decide is important. And this
>> thread has been good for one thing: it's made me think harder about 3D
>> strategy. My campaign is set in a volume which is pretty easy to cross as
>> there are a preponderance of routes through junk systems. At first glance
>> this suggests keeping the balance of sector forces in reserve, scattering
>> SDBs as harrassment forces everywhere, and playing submarines with your war
>> fleets. Any other ideas?
>
>In MTU, we (the PC's) are not involved in world politics perse. That is
>not to say that we cannot or will not become involved, but whatever
>involvement we do have is on a much smaller scale (espionage activities,
>snatch and grab, extraction, investigate and report, I think you get the
>idea). This is easier for me to control and allows me to keep the party
>small(er). My (our) ship carries variously from 55 to 65 multi-talented
>characters and aliens. We have 3 main PC's and variably 3 to 9 NPC's
>who, because of circumstance change from episode to episode. Some of the
>NPC's are added as a result of episodes we have, and any NPC can become
>a PC if the game needs the talents of that particular NPC. This gives my
>players a chance to role-play many or various alien type's. The minimum
>required to operate the ship (last resort) would be possibly 26-30 so as
>crews are lost for whatever reason, we are forced to locate
>replacements, which means visiting and interacting with whatever is
>dirtside. The band as a whole are a roving bunch of you name it,
>galivanting around in space, getting into and out all sorts of mischief,
>and generally having a blast.
> 
>I like the 3D idea. I like the traveller game in all its forms, good or
>bad, and I will try to adapt my game to fit (in my way or what I
>consider someone else's better way), if that's what the players ask for. 
>
>Jim
>Have fun in 3D
>
>PS: sorry for seemingly taking so long to respond, but I have had an
>extremely busy last 4 days.
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:52:17 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> On the other hand, the Star Trek series seems to have occassions where
> female officers were addressed as "Sir."  Of course, it took Star Trek
> twenty years to even show us enlisted personal, so I can't really truet
> them.

Weren't the enlisted personnel the ones wearing haltertops, shorts, skirts etc.
in the hallways on that Menagerie flashback episode?  :-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:12:26 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Unsolicited Emails 

> >
> An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
> <emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
> do not send any more messages to this address. If this message is from a
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> from your list or contact your list owner or administrator to remove my
> name from your list. All messages from this and all other unknown addresses
> will be automatically deleted from the server after receiving this reply.
> In the future, please authenticate subscription requests.

 Well, since the message has changed, obviously he has been notified by the
postmaster.    Who can unsubscribe him?


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:21:59 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> At 02:29 PM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
> >I'm working on a Traveller-based short story (which I may post to the list
> >later, if it turns out okay...), and I was wondering: how is a female
> >command officer addressed? Sir, or Ma'am?
>
> Current United States protocol is to address superior officers according to
> gender.  "Sir" for a male senior officer or "Ma'am" for a female.  As a
> rule (in the Army at least) calling a senior by their rank is something of
> an insult in casual conversation.
>
> On the other hand, the Star Trek series seems to have occassions where
> female officers were addressed as "Sir."  Of course, it took Star Trek
> twenty years to even show us enlisted personal, so I can't really truet
> them.
> +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

 Then what was Yeoman Rand...chopped liver?  :)

(Yeoman are the admins [enlisted rating] for the U.S. Navy, and apparantly for
the Federation as well)

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:35:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Auction Last Call

Hi,

I will take bids until tonight (Monday) at midnight due to my
outage. The url for my site is:

http://www.rt66.com/~merrick/Lane/lanesale.html   (should be up
today)

or 

http://www.ants-inc.com/merrick/lanesale.html

Bids are posted on the site, email your additions (should you have
any).

Regards,

Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:43:58 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: TNE GL HEAP

I think that a _direct_ (physical contact) hit with such a weapon causes
damage in dice equal to the Penetration Value.  At least I seem to remember
reading this somewhere...


On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:

> A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE,
a
> RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
> personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but such
a
> device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had
been
> made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough energy
to
> blast through that much armour

Steven Charlton

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #281
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, March 16 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 282



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Military protocol question...
Year 0 Core sector now available
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: TNE GL HEAP)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)
Re: Unsolicited Emails 
Unsolicited Emails
Re: Military protocol question...
Re: Military protocol question...
re: Lost in time
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Auction Last Call)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: TNE GL HEAP)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)
Re: Lost in time
Re: Unsolicited Emails
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Year 0 Core sector now available)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:43:52 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

At 02:21 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>dberry@hooked.net wrote:

>> On the other hand, the Star Trek series seems to have occassions where
>> female officers were addressed as "Sir."  Of course, it took Star Trek
>> twenty years to even show us enlisted personal, so I can't really truet
>> them.

> Then what was Yeoman Rand...chopped liver?  :)

All the woman ever did was carry Kirk's clipboard!  That and get mauled by
him on occasion.  (Hmmm.. I see Ken Starr's descendents won't want for work
in the Federation...)

My biggest problem with this came in ST:6.  The enterprise has crew of
several hundred people.  And the two most qualified to make modifications
to a photon torpedo in the middle of a desperate battle are..  The Science
Officer, and the Ship's DOCTOR!?!   Who were on the bridge?!  There wasn't
a single Torpedo Tech/3 standing around who could swap homing packages?

Sorry for the rant, but ST ticks me off.. Thank Ghu it's almost time for B5.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:07:30 -0500
From: "Commander X (aka Arcanus)" <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Year 0 Core sector now available

A side project I've been working on.  I have input core sector from M:0
into a Gal2.3 file. 

Implemented in the data are:
Volker's Core Sector Corrections
Some personal corrections based on CT Core sector Data
Chanestin Kingdom and Interstellar Confederacy worlds hilighted
Sylean Federation Worlds hilighted, data from CT used
Santry and Cordova placed useing Jo Grant's TML suggeestions.
Barren Worlds hilighted in grey, and are not included in any polity
Barren worlds which had a Scout base upgraded to D clss starport, given
1d3 population and 1d6 pop multi. Scout bases are only present on world
with type 'D' or better starports according to the rules.

The worlds selected for the CK and IC are based on worlds mentioned by
Volker, which in turn were refrenced from Traveller Digests, and by the
M:0 information.  The Ck had up to 25 worlds, the IC 32.  Most worlds
follow a main.  Barren worlds were not included.

In all a rather decent sector.  And its a compatible Gal2.3 directory.

Go to my new FTP site.  http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/ftp  the file is
year0.zip.  Download and unzip it. place the year0 directory in your
Gal2.3 directory.  You will have to edit the gal.lst file to include the
year0 directory.  Once thats done, you have the whole of core sector
ready for play.

Enjoy! :)

Commander X

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:47:21 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: TNE GL HEAP)

At 04:28 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> said;
>>A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE, a
>>RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
>>personal damage.
>
>Hmmm, Well Colin, in my own game I would say that if one were directly hit
>by a 40mm RAM HEAP grenade outside of Battle Dress your friends would be
>picking up little pieces of you from the floor and ceiling, walls, etc.
>Inside Battle Dress the mess would be reduced, but the results (on a
>penetrating hit that is) would be the same.
>
>But you seem to favor a more 'gamey' solution, ok.
>
>I see a couple of options.  The damage for that grenade was intended to be
>applied to folk in the blast radius which, being a directed blast, can be
>considered pretty minimal.  HEAP grenades are generally fired at something
>other than a person (except, possibly, when in Battle Dress or equiv.).  So
>I think the damage applied was for the person standing next to the actual
>target but within the blast radius.  Fair enough.
>
>If a person were within the penetrating cone of superheated plasma that is
>generated by a HEAP warhead (40mm or not), that energy would go into their
>body directly, and likely out the other side, leaving a hole which may be
>inconvenient to continued internal organ operation.  Apply damage as though
>the target were hit by a laser rifle at close range.
>
>If the individual were wearing armor the effects are probably even worse.
>A HEAP grenade is specifically designed to cause 'spalling' or flying
>fragments on the inside of the vehicle being hit.  Applying this principle
>to, say, battle dress, on a penetrating hit I would say that there were a
>number of small fragments of armor bouncing around within the armored torso
>of the target, causing considerable discomfort.  I guess the equivalent of
>a shotgun blast in damage to the target (as though unarmored) at close
>range would approximate the result.
>
>In either case, and even if the shot does not penetrate, there should be a
>considerable amount of kinetic energy involved, blowing the target in the
>direction of travel of the grenade several meters (like, 2-4 and into any
>intervening obstacles).  That character, if alive, should then be stunned
>for at least a round, and be suffering from bruises and possible broken
>ribs etc.
>
>Now, one thing to remember is that launched grenades tend to have an arming
>mechanism that depends on rotation.  The fuse arms after taking a certain
>number of rotations after leaving the barrel.  This means you need a few
>meters (anyone know how many? I would guess at least 5 meters) before the
>grenade is armed.  I suppose someone with the appropriate skill could
>modify them to allow quicker arming, but then again a person with that
>skill may be too smart to do so.  In any case the upshot is that a RAM HEAP
>grenade is *not* a good close in weapon.  Once you're no longer 'close in'
>hitting a man-sized fast-moving object with a rocket propelled grenade
>directly should be significantly harder to do (barring suprise, of course).
>
>I had a character (Gregory MacGregor - and roll those R's) who spent whole
>adventures carring nothing but a magazine fed 40mm grenade launcher (an M79
>with a clip, basically).  Other characters reacted very quickly when he
>said "duck".
>
>Pete
>
>
>                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
>"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
>  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:17:11 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)

At 01:35 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 02:29 PM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>I'm working on a Traveller-based short story (which I may post to the list
>>later, if it turns out okay...), and I was wondering: how is a female
>>command officer addressed? Sir, or Ma'am?
>
>Current United States protocol is to address superior officers according to
>gender.  "Sir" for a male senior officer or "Ma'am" for a female.  As a
>rule (in the Army at least) calling a senior by their rank is something of
>an insult in casual conversation.
>
>On the other hand, the Star Trek series seems to have occassions where
>female officers were addressed as "Sir."  Of course, it took Star Trek
>twenty years to even show us enlisted personal, so I can't really truet
>them.
>+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
>| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
>|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
>|------------------------------------------|
>| "Nothing concentrates the military mind  |
>|  so much as the discovery that you have  |
>|  walked into an ambush."                 |
>|                      -Thomas Packenham   |
>+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:17:31 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)

At 04:52 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>dberry@hooked.net wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, the Star Trek series seems to have occassions where
>> female officers were addressed as "Sir."  Of course, it took Star Trek
>> twenty years to even show us enlisted personal, so I can't really truet
>> them.
>
>Weren't the enlisted personnel the ones wearing haltertops, shorts, skirts
etc.
>in the hallways on that Menagerie flashback episode?  :-)
>
>Bloo
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:07:49 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Unsolicited Emails 

At 02:12 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> >
>> An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
>> <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>...

>Well, since the message has changed, obviously he has been notified by the
>postmaster.    Who can unsubscribe him?

We can hope that Rob does so soon.

I am planning on giving Netcom a call, and trying to hit the asshole with
the wrath of God.  If that fails, well, I will just have to remember the
son of a bitch.  Keep his name in a VERY special place reserved for the
owners of Cyberpromo.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:08:35 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails

Ok... this got old when it filled two digests...now there's the third...    Of
course, my last three messages to the tml have returned bounced messages from
"happy.carrier.kiev.ua" or MPGN so what's another piece of unsolicited mail? :
)  Would anyone here know if they are ever going to get the www archive page
back up?  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:00:54 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

At 02:29 PM 16/03/98 -0600, Andrew Akins wrote:
>I'm working on a Traveller-based short story (which I may post to the list
>later, if it turns out okay...), and I was wondering: how is a female
>command officer addressed? Sir, or Ma'am?
>
>The main character is a female captain of a destroyer (equal opportunity in
>the future!).

In New Zealand all female officers in any service are addressed as 'Ma'am'
or by rank (if your rank is only a little lower or is higher, or the
situation is relatively informal).

I don't know how accurate the movies are, but we always used to laugh at US
privates having to call their NCOs 'Sir'. If we did that the laest you'd
get was "Don't insult me like that again - I work for my pay. Give me 30!
(press-ups)".


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:14:02 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> At 02:21 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >dberry@hooked.net wrote:
>
> >> On the other hand, the Star Trek series seems to have occassions where
> >> female officers were addressed as "Sir."  Of course, it took Star Trek
> >> twenty years to even show us enlisted personal, so I can't really truet
> >> them.
>
> > Then what was Yeoman Rand...chopped liver?  :)
>
> All the woman ever did was carry Kirk's clipboard!  That and get mauled by
> him on occasion.  (Hmmm.. I see Ken Starr's descendents won't want for work
> in the Federation...)
>
> My biggest problem with this came in ST:6.  The enterprise has crew of
> several hundred people.  And the two most qualified to make modifications
> to a photon torpedo in the middle of a desperate battle are..  The Science
> Officer, and the Ship's DOCTOR!?!   Who were on the bridge?!  There wasn't
> a single Torpedo Tech/3 standing around who could swap homing packages?
>
> Sorry for the rant, but ST ticks me off.. Thank Ghu it's almost time for B5.

I don't disagree with you.  If you are not an officer in TOS, you are something
best scraped off a shoe!  (Of course, if you were in security,chances are that
is EXACTLY what your fate would be.  Poor red shirts....

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:08:30 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Lost in time

 "Gary MacKeigan" <GARYMAC@cbbc.cbbc.ns.ca> wrote:

>I'm new to Traveller, as is the group I GM for.  I just have a few
>questions for anyone who would wish to answer.

Welcome!

>1.  Based on the information in the T4 main rulebook, what year should
>I start my campaign in?

Milieu 0 runs from 0 to 200. IIRC T4.1's base date is 98 Imperial (eg
Missions of State adventures). Somewhere around 98 would be best for future
material compatibility. If you want a more mature Imperium have a look at
the News articles at http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html which
cover 1105 to 1120-something, a more mature Imperium ranging to TL15
(covered in MegaTraveller and Classic Traveller). Milieu 0 is a damn good
supplement (asides from the Core map).

>2.  Is there some reason why there are worlds only two parsecs away from
>the Imperium that have not been contacted in hundreds of years, as
>indicated in the back of the main rulebook?  Why?

The map in the main rulebook is wrong - it is superceded by the material in
M0 (Campaign and in M0/First Survey). Unfortunately, M0/FS and M0
Campaign's data is flawed (although the hardback does give a solution to
the problem of Law Levels = Govt Levels) and some worlds have too high a
population. M0 is very useful all the same.

Why? A lack of proof reading and understanding of Traveller's background.
M0 was wriiten with one set of sector data and the First Survey data was
substituted without the authors seeing it. First Survey is available
electronically at http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/ but it is only
the text file, not the maps themselves.

>3.  Does the Imperium encompass more worlds than are indicated in the
>back of the rulebook (ie. in the subsectors above Core and to the left)?

Yes. By 100 the Imperium covers several sectors. There are crude maps
covering the expansion at http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/ as
well. The map data probably is more the kind of data available commercially
, maybe from -30ish. IMO of course.

Above and to the left of Sylea (in the M0/FS Map) was the Interstellar
Confederacy (a major rival to Spinward of the Imperium defeated around 0
Imperial). Below (Rimward) of the Imperium was the Chanestin Kingdom,
defeated soon after the IC. Santry and Cordova are misplaced on the map too.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:16:48 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)

At 02:21 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>dberry@hooked.net wrote:
>
>> At 02:29 PM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>> >I'm working on a Traveller-based short story (which I may post to the list
>> >later, if it turns out okay...), and I was wondering: how is a female
>> >command officer addressed? Sir, or Ma'am?
>>
>> Current United States protocol is to address superior officers according to
>> gender.  "Sir" for a male senior officer or "Ma'am" for a female.  As a
>> rule (in the Army at least) calling a senior by their rank is something of
>> an insult in casual conversation.
>>
>> On the other hand, the Star Trek series seems to have occassions where
>> female officers were addressed as "Sir."  Of course, it took Star Trek
>> twenty years to even show us enlisted personal, so I can't really truet
>> them.
>> +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
>
> Then what was Yeoman Rand...chopped liver?  :)
>
>(Yeoman are the admins [enlisted rating] for the U.S. Navy, and apparantly
for
>the Federation as well)
>
>--
>_________________________________________
>E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
>http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html
>
>Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
>__________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:17:09 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Auction Last Call)

At 03:35 PM 3/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I will take bids until tonight (Monday) at midnight due to my
>outage. The url for my site is:
>
>http://www.rt66.com/~merrick/Lane/lanesale.html   (should be up
>today)
>
>or 
>
>http://www.ants-inc.com/merrick/lanesale.html
>
>Bids are posted on the site, email your additions (should you have
>any).
>
>Regards,
>
>Merrick
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:17:16 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: TNE GL HEAP)

At 02:43 PM 3/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>I think that a _direct_ (physical contact) hit with such a weapon causes
>damage in dice equal to the Penetration Value.  At least I seem to remember
>reading this somewhere...
>
>
>On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:
>
>> A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE,
>a
>> RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
>> personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but such
>a
>> device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had
>been
>> made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough energy
>to
>> blast through that much armour
>
>Steven Charlton
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:17:35 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)

At 02:43 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 02:21 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>dberry@hooked.net wrote:
>
>>> On the other hand, the Star Trek series seems to have occassions where
>>> female officers were addressed as "Sir."  Of course, it took Star Trek
>>> twenty years to even show us enlisted personal, so I can't really truet
>>> them.
>
>> Then what was Yeoman Rand...chopped liver?  :)
>
>All the woman ever did was carry Kirk's clipboard!  That and get mauled by
>him on occasion.  (Hmmm.. I see Ken Starr's descendents won't want for work
>in the Federation...)
>
>My biggest problem with this came in ST:6.  The enterprise has crew of
>several hundred people.  And the two most qualified to make modifications
>to a photon torpedo in the middle of a desperate battle are..  The Science
>Officer, and the Ship's DOCTOR!?!   Who were on the bridge?!  There wasn't
>a single Torpedo Tech/3 standing around who could swap homing packages?
>
>Sorry for the rant, but ST ticks me off.. Thank Ghu it's almost time for B5.
>--
>
>+-------------------------------------+
>| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
>|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
>+-------------------------------------+
>| "I created the universe; give ME    |
>|  the gift certificate!!"            |
>|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
>+-------------------------------------+
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:34:58 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Lost in time

At 02:43 PM 3/16/98 +0000, you wrote:
>I'm new to Traveller, as is the group I GM for.  I just have a few 
>questions for anyone who would wish to answer.
>
>1.  Based on the information in the T4 main rulebook, what year should 
>I start my campaign in?

I have episodes running in mine at year 0, year 15, and year 19.

>2.  Is there some reason why there are worlds only two parsecs away from 
>the Imperium that have not been contacted in hundreds of years, as 
>indicated in the back of the main rulebook?  Why?

Yes - someone was a dingleberry when they proofed and continuity checked
this section of the rulebook and M0.  The M0 authors were told they could
alter the sector somewhat for good sense, and then it was changed back at
the last minute to match the fatally crippled and flawed First Survey data.

Now, the way I am playing it is a tad different.  IMTU, Sylea expanded
roughly equally in all directions, adding worlds as they could, and trying
very hard not to leave any behind.  IMTU, the Y0 Imperium owned the old
Sylean Federation worlds, Vland and a dozen worlds near it by treaty, and
had an extent of three parsecs from Sylea and two from Shudusham.

By Y10, they had filled in the gaps, and started to expand to spinward and
antispinward, such that it did not look like a dumbbell, but the Imperium
was still essentially Sylea with Shudushamese influence.  They also had
recently conquered the Chanestin kingdom, but had not taken it over.

Y20 brought integration of the former Chanestin territory, as well as a mad
push to try expanding towards Lishun and Vland.  Core pacification was
formulated as policy, but not well acted on because of the large number of
recently acquired worlds.

Y50 brought massive internal development, a stall of expansion, and a
dramatic rise in population and technology to the member systems.  During
this time, opponents in Core were clearly identified, isolated, and sweet
talked.  A massive Naval buildup took place, putting serious firepower
right near anyone in Core and near environs who might say "boo!"

Y70 was an expansionary time.  Core was completely pacified in a series of
lightning moves, which then opportunistically expanded the young Imperium
into Massilia, Lishun, Dagadushag, and Vland.

Note - this is very different from classical canon on the rate of
expansion, but I do not see the young Imperium being able to expand its
border that fast, and I do not see trade taking place more then 3-8 parsecs
from the Imperial border easily.

>3.  Does the Imperium encompass more worlds than are indicated in the 
>back of the rulebook (ie. in the subsectors above Core and to the left)?

Many, many more.  In the early years, that is about the right size, but by
a few hundred, it is sectors and sectors in size.

Scott 
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:35:55 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Unsolicited Emails

At 06:08 PM 16/03/98 EST, you wrote:
>Ok... this got old when it filled two digests...now there's the third...
 Of
>course, my last three messages to the tml have returned bounced messages from
>"happy.carrier.kiev.ua" or MPGN so what's another piece of unsolicited
mail? :
>)  Would anyone here know if they are ever going to get the www archive page
>back up?  
>
>Gary

You too? I thought it was just me. They were mailed straight to me, so I
assumed it was my fault, but then I realised that my messages were getting
through. Maybe the Ukranians don't like Traveller.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:36:21 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Year 0 Core sector now available)

At 06:07 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>A side project I've been working on.  I have input core sector from M:0
>into a Gal2.3 file. 
>
>Implemented in the data are:
>Volker's Core Sector Corrections
>Some personal corrections based on CT Core sector Data
>Chanestin Kingdom and Interstellar Confederacy worlds hilighted
>Sylean Federation Worlds hilighted, data from CT used
>Santry and Cordova placed useing Jo Grant's TML suggeestions.
>Barren Worlds hilighted in grey, and are not included in any polity
>Barren worlds which had a Scout base upgraded to D clss starport, given
>1d3 population and 1d6 pop multi. Scout bases are only present on world
>with type 'D' or better starports according to the rules.
>
>The worlds selected for the CK and IC are based on worlds mentioned by
>Volker, which in turn were refrenced from Traveller Digests, and by the
>M:0 information.  The Ck had up to 25 worlds, the IC 32.  Most worlds
>follow a main.  Barren worlds were not included.
>
>In all a rather decent sector.  And its a compatible Gal2.3 directory.
>
>Go to my new FTP site.  http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/ftp  the file is
>year0.zip.  Download and unzip it. place the year0 directory in your
>Gal2.3 directory.  You will have to edit the gal.lst file to include the
>year0 directory.  Once thats done, you have the whole of core sector
>ready for play.
>
>Enjoy! :)
>
>Commander X
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:36:30 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)

At 12:00 PM 3/17/98 +1200, you wrote:
>At 02:29 PM 16/03/98 -0600, Andrew Akins wrote:
>>I'm working on a Traveller-based short story (which I may post to the list
>>later, if it turns out okay...), and I was wondering: how is a female
>>command officer addressed? Sir, or Ma'am?
>>
>>The main character is a female captain of a destroyer (equal opportunity in
>>the future!).
>
>In New Zealand all female officers in any service are addressed as 'Ma'am'
>or by rank (if your rank is only a little lower or is higher, or the
>situation is relatively informal).
>
>I don't know how accurate the movies are, but we always used to laugh at US
>privates having to call their NCOs 'Sir'. If we did that the laest you'd
>get was "Don't insult me like that again - I work for my pay. Give me 30!
>(press-ups)".
>
>
>-- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>   Palmerston North
>   New Zealand
>
>
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------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #282
**********************************

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Traveller-digest       Monday, March 16 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 283



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Auction Last Call
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Unsolicited Emails)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)
Re: Traveller Stuff for Sale
Unsolicited Emails (was re: Lost in time)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Lost in time)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Unsolicited Emails)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Auction Last Call)
Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry
Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)
RE: Military protocol question...
Re: Military protocol question...
Re: Pronunciation of Regina
Bad news for those that don't know:[Fwd: Would you rather...?]
Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Lost in time)
Re: Traveller Stuff for Sale
Re: Pronunciation of Regina
Miscellany
How to un sub
Re: Unsolicited Emails

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:08:09 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Auction Last Call

My original site www.rt66.com/~merrick/Lane/lanesale.html is back
up.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:36:25 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Unsolicited Emails)

At 06:08 PM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:
>Ok... this got old when it filled two digests...now there's the third...
 Of
>course, my last three messages to the tml have returned bounced messages from
>"happy.carrier.kiev.ua" or MPGN so what's another piece of unsolicited
mail? :
>)  Would anyone here know if they are ever going to get the www archive page
>back up?  
>
>Gary
>
>
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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:36:38 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)

At 03:14 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>dberry@hooked.net wrote:
>
>> At 02:21 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> >dberry@hooked.net wrote:
>>
>> >> On the other hand, the Star Trek series seems to have occassions where
>> >> female officers were addressed as "Sir."  Of course, it took Star Trek
>> >> twenty years to even show us enlisted personal, so I can't really truet
>> >> them.
>>
>> > Then what was Yeoman Rand...chopped liver?  :)
>>
>> All the woman ever did was carry Kirk's clipboard!  That and get mauled by
>> him on occasion.  (Hmmm.. I see Ken Starr's descendents won't want for work
>> in the Federation...)
>>
>> My biggest problem with this came in ST:6.  The enterprise has crew of
>> several hundred people.  And the two most qualified to make modifications
>> to a photon torpedo in the middle of a desperate battle are..  The Science
>> Officer, and the Ship's DOCTOR!?!   Who were on the bridge?!  There wasn't
>> a single Torpedo Tech/3 standing around who could swap homing packages?
>>
>> Sorry for the rant, but ST ticks me off.. Thank Ghu it's almost time for
B5.
>
>I don't disagree with you.  If you are not an officer in TOS, you are
something
>best scraped off a shoe!  (Of course, if you were in security,chances are
that
>is EXACTLY what your fate would be.  Poor red shirts....
>
>--
>_________________________________________
>E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
>http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html
>
>Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
>__________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:07:12 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Stuff for Sale

Dear Sir;

I am VERY interested in Book 8 (Robots), but to be honest I have no idea what
to bid. Please let me know what you want for it.

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:36:45 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was re: Lost in time)

At 11:08 PM 3/16/98 +0000, you wrote:
> "Gary MacKeigan" <GARYMAC@cbbc.cbbc.ns.ca> wrote:
>
>>I'm new to Traveller, as is the group I GM for.  I just have a few
>>questions for anyone who would wish to answer.
>
>Welcome!
>
>>1.  Based on the information in the T4 main rulebook, what year should
>>I start my campaign in?
>
>Milieu 0 runs from 0 to 200. IIRC T4.1's base date is 98 Imperial (eg
>Missions of State adventures). Somewhere around 98 would be best for future
>material compatibility. If you want a more mature Imperium have a look at
>the News articles at http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html which
>cover 1105 to 1120-something, a more mature Imperium ranging to TL15
>(covered in MegaTraveller and Classic Traveller). Milieu 0 is a damn good
>supplement (asides from the Core map).
>
>>2.  Is there some reason why there are worlds only two parsecs away from
>>the Imperium that have not been contacted in hundreds of years, as
>>indicated in the back of the main rulebook?  Why?
>
>The map in the main rulebook is wrong - it is superceded by the material in
>M0 (Campaign and in M0/First Survey). Unfortunately, M0/FS and M0
>Campaign's data is flawed (although the hardback does give a solution to
>the problem of Law Levels = Govt Levels) and some worlds have too high a
>population. M0 is very useful all the same.
>
>Why? A lack of proof reading and understanding of Traveller's background.
>M0 was wriiten with one set of sector data and the First Survey data was
>substituted without the authors seeing it. First Survey is available
>electronically at http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/ but it is only
>the text file, not the maps themselves.
>
>>3.  Does the Imperium encompass more worlds than are indicated in the
>>back of the rulebook (ie. in the subsectors above Core and to the left)?
>
>Yes. By 100 the Imperium covers several sectors. There are crude maps
>covering the expansion at http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/ as
>well. The map data probably is more the kind of data available commercially
>, maybe from -30ish. IMO of course.
>
>Above and to the left of Sylea (in the M0/FS Map) was the Interstellar
>Confederacy (a major rival to Spinward of the Imperium defeated around 0
>Imperial). Below (Rimward) of the Imperium was the Chanestin Kingdom,
>defeated soon after the IC. Santry and Cordova are misplaced on the map too.
>
>Dom
>
>------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
>"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
>notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
>just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
>invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
>--Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:51:30 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Lost in time)

At 03:34 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 02:43 PM 3/16/98 +0000, you wrote:
>>I'm new to Traveller, as is the group I GM for.  I just have a few 
>>questions for anyone who would wish to answer.
>>
>>1.  Based on the information in the T4 main rulebook, what year should 
>>I start my campaign in?
>
>I have episodes running in mine at year 0, year 15, and year 19.
>
>>2.  Is there some reason why there are worlds only two parsecs away from 
>>the Imperium that have not been contacted in hundreds of years, as 
>>indicated in the back of the main rulebook?  Why?
>
>Yes - someone was a dingleberry when they proofed and continuity checked
>this section of the rulebook and M0.  The M0 authors were told they could
>alter the sector somewhat for good sense, and then it was changed back at
>the last minute to match the fatally crippled and flawed First Survey data.
>
>Now, the way I am playing it is a tad different.  IMTU, Sylea expanded
>roughly equally in all directions, adding worlds as they could, and trying
>very hard not to leave any behind.  IMTU, the Y0 Imperium owned the old
>Sylean Federation worlds, Vland and a dozen worlds near it by treaty, and
>had an extent of three parsecs from Sylea and two from Shudusham.
>
>By Y10, they had filled in the gaps, and started to expand to spinward and
>antispinward, such that it did not look like a dumbbell, but the Imperium
>was still essentially Sylea with Shudushamese influence.  They also had
>recently conquered the Chanestin kingdom, but had not taken it over.
>
>Y20 brought integration of the former Chanestin territory, as well as a mad
>push to try expanding towards Lishun and Vland.  Core pacification was
>formulated as policy, but not well acted on because of the large number of
>recently acquired worlds.
>
>Y50 brought massive internal development, a stall of expansion, and a
>dramatic rise in population and technology to the member systems.  During
>this time, opponents in Core were clearly identified, isolated, and sweet
>talked.  A massive Naval buildup took place, putting serious firepower
>right near anyone in Core and near environs who might say "boo!"
>
>Y70 was an expansionary time.  Core was completely pacified in a series of
>lightning moves, which then opportunistically expanded the young Imperium
>into Massilia, Lishun, Dagadushag, and Vland.
>
>Note - this is very different from classical canon on the rate of
>expansion, but I do not see the young Imperium being able to expand its
>border that fast, and I do not see trade taking place more then 3-8 parsecs
>from the Imperial border easily.
>
>>3.  Does the Imperium encompass more worlds than are indicated in the 
>>back of the rulebook (ie. in the subsectors above Core and to the left)?
>
>Many, many more.  In the early years, that is about the right size, but by
>a few hundred, it is sectors and sectors in size.
>
>Scott 
>Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
>"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
>results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
>"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:23:13 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Unsolicited Emails)

At 12:35 PM 3/17/98 +1200, you wrote:
>At 06:08 PM 16/03/98 EST, you wrote:
>>Ok... this got old when it filled two digests...now there's the third...
> Of
>>course, my last three messages to the tml have returned bounced messages
from
>>"happy.carrier.kiev.ua" or MPGN so what's another piece of unsolicited
>mail? :
>>)  Would anyone here know if they are ever going to get the www archive page
>>back up?  
>>
>>Gary
>
>You too? I thought it was just me. They were mailed straight to me, so I
>assumed it was my fault, but then I realised that my messages were getting
>through. Maybe the Ukranians don't like Traveller.
>
>
>-- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>   Palmerston North
>   New Zealand
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:21:17 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Auction Last Call)

At 05:08 PM 3/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>My original site www.rt66.com/~merrick/Lane/lanesale.html is back
>up.
>
>-Merrick
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 98 22:48 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry

Moin Anders Backman,

> As flightplans are secret and should be so for business competitional
> reasons a major part of adventuring IMTU is bribing/stealing/deducting
> flightplans and avoiding/falsifying/tampering the same.

	sorry flight plans are not secret ;-( MT Knight Fall :

	" One world with law level 7-, transponder traffic logs are
	freely available to public scrutiny just for asking. If the
	worlds law level is 8 or 9, a permit is neede. Application
	usualy involves a payment of a token fee (1d*25Cr), filling
	out some paperwork. [...] If the law level is extreme, traffic
	records are not available unless you can prove you have a
	legitimate need to see them. "

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 98 22:57 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)

Moin Scott Taylor,

> Can we get this jerk* removed from the mailing list *please*?
> *I wouldn't call him a jerk; he's obviously been signed up for the list 
> by someone else. But his damn auto-reply is spamming the list, and *that* 
> qualifies him as a jek, by definition (Spam = jerk)

	NetCom has been known for spam, and is one of the main relays
	of spam. I think a postmaster has installed a filter and TML
	is triggering the filter. While its good that they start doing
	something against their spam problem, the postmaster deserves
	... ;-)

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:04:32 -0800
From: jasonw@cylink.com (Jason Williams)
Subject: RE: Military protocol question...

  In the USMC, it went something like this:

  Male officers were Sir, women were Ma'am.  In boot camp everybody is Sir, 
which you stop as soon as you get out of boot camp.  Very confusing.  You 
can get away with calling an officer by their first name, but only if you 
are a senior officer.  Enlisted can call officers by their rank, but only 
if you're senior enough to get away with it.  I (as a Corporal) was able to 
get away with "Come here, Lieutenant", but if I'd tried that with the 
Captain, I would have been harmed in very special ways only taught to 
infantry officers.  If you've been around a while, you can get away with 
Skipper for Captains,  but it's a case by case basis.

	Jason
	jasonw@cylink.com

On Monday, March 16, 1998 4:01 PM, Rupert Boleyn 
[SMTP:rboleyn@clear.net.nz] wrote:
> At 02:29 PM 16/03/98 -0600, Andrew Akins wrote:
> >I'm working on a Traveller-based short story (which I may post to the 
list
> >later, if it turns out okay...), and I was wondering: how is a female
> >command officer addressed? Sir, or Ma'am?
> >
> >The main character is a female captain of a destroyer (equal opportunity 
in
> >the future!).
>
> In New Zealand all female officers in any service are addressed as 
'Ma'am'
> or by rank (if your rank is only a little lower or is higher, or the
> situation is relatively informal).
>
> I don't know how accurate the movies are, but we always used to laugh at 
US
> privates having to call their NCOs 'Sir'. If we did that the laest you'd
> get was "Don't insult me like that again - I work for my pay. Give me 30!
> (press-ups)".
>
>
> -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>    Palmerston North
>    New Zealand
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 98 17:24:31 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

On 03/16/98 at 02:29 PM,  "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net> said:

>I'm working on a Traveller-based short story (which I may post to the list
>later, if it turns out okay...), and I was wondering: how is a female
>command officer addressed? Sir, or Ma'am?

Depends on the culture.  

IMTU, all Officers are honorary "Sirs", and are addressed as such, as in
"Yes, Sir!  Aye, aye Sir!"

Informally, Junior Officers are refered to as "Mr", as in "Check with Mr
Robinson."

Senior Officers and in formal situations Junior Officers are refered to by
Rank, as in "Ensign Pulver, contact Major Marie and Commander Jones."

Very informally, Officers may be refered to by certain nicknames as long as
respect is clearly being shown, as in "Yes Ma'am, I've got a message from
the XO, he says the Skipper will be late for her meeting with the Chief."

IYTU, do it however you like. ;->

>The main character is a female captain of a destroyer (equal
>opportunity in the future!).

Sure thing!  In *some* cultures.  ;-> If the culture is truely equal
opportunity, then it might not matter whether Sir or Ma'am is used.  In a
culture that professes equality, but isn't really there, it would probably
matter more.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:21:06 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Regina

In a message dated 98-03-15 23:15:53 EST, you write:

<< 
 Douglas Sinclair <eem2ds@ee.surrey.ac.uk> writes:
 >Just to throw more fuel on the fire, there's a city in Saskatchewan called
 >Regina. 
 
 True. Saskatchewan also has a city called Saskatoon (where I grew up),
 which is also a planet in the Solomani Rim. I figured it was named by some
 homesick grasshopper during one of the Interstellar Wars.
 
  >>

Somewhere one of the books tells us the names of the gas giant which Regina
orbits, and some of the other worlds in the Regina system. I wonder what those
names are?


Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:29:45 -0800
From: Mike Wittek <mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com>
Subject: Bad news for those that don't know:[Fwd: Would you rather...?]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- --------------D7A170E47CF2DC546010ABB6
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To All:

After talking to Tim Brown of Destination Games, I figured that I would
share this bleak bit of information. For those that don't know Tim
Brown, he is the President of Destination Games that produce TRAVELLER
for Imperium Games, Inc..

- --

Mike Wittek | Vacaville, California
mailto:mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com
     "Democracy isn't just the best form of government; It's the only
one even remotely worth a damn. Only democracy guarantees that people
get what they deserve."   --Zena Marley

DISCLAIMER: All that I write is my own opinion, and my opinion may not
be the opinion of my school or electronic courier. For that matter, it
may not be your opinion, but deal with it.


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To: Mike Wittek <mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com>
From: destination@destination2.com (Destination Video (Tim Brown))
Subject: Re: Would you rather...?
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:25:17 -0600
Message-ID: <19980316162516826.AAA190@imperium>

>Tim Brown:
>
>You *strongly* suggested that Imperium Games was not going to make
>anymore TRAVELLER books. Would you like me to keep that information to
>myself, or would you care if I were let it be known?
>
Good question. I know that corporately it's best to keep the "best face" on
things and not rule out the possibility of a full recovery. However, it is
most definitely my opinion that Imperium Games will not produce any future
Traveller products, and you can quote me on that if you like.

Tim

>Respectfully,
>--
>
>Mike Wittek | Vacaville, California
>mailto:mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com
>     "Democracy isn't just the best form of government; It's the only
>one even remotely worth a damn. Only democracy guarantees that people
>get what they deserve."   --Zena Marley
>
>
>Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s"

>Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s"
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:33:34 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Lost in time)

Emery Dennis wrote:

> An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
> <emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
> do not send any more messages to this address. If this message is from a
> mailing list, I did not subscribe to this list, so please remove my address
> from your list or contact your list owner or administrator to remove my
> name from your list. All messages from this and all other unknown addresses
> will be automatically deleted from the server after receiving this reply.
> In the future, please authenticate subscription requests.

That does it!!  I'm tired of seeing these!!

TWO CAN PLAY THIS GAME MR. EMERY DENNIS!!  EAT HOT FILTER!!!  BOO-WHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

(ahem)

er....sorry.  Got carried away.

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:36:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Stuff for Sale

 
> I am VERY interested in Book 8 (Robots), but to be honest I have no idea what
> to bid. Please let me know what you want for it.

Robots is going very dearly--$50 is the current bid *blink*.
Surprised the hell outta me.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:41:55 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Regina

CardSharks wrote:

> In a message dated 98-03-15 23:15:53 EST, you write:
>
> <<
>  Douglas Sinclair <eem2ds@ee.surrey.ac.uk> writes:
>  >Just to throw more fuel on the fire, there's a city in Saskatchewan called
>  >Regina.
>
>  True. Saskatchewan also has a city called Saskatoon (where I grew up),
>  which is also a planet in the Solomani Rim. I figured it was named by some
>  homesick grasshopper during one of the Interstellar Wars.
>
>   >>
>
> Somewhere one of the books tells us the names of the gas giant which Regina
> orbits, and some of the other worlds in the Regina system. I wonder what those
> names are?

P. 21 of  Megatraveller Referee's Manual.  Its called Assiniboia.  Here's the
funny thing though... check out Lashir, a size S planetoid with FIVE moons! (every
one of them larger than the planet itself.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:58:26 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Miscellany

Bloo said:

<<You'll let me know if y'all could use this Yankee-educated Texan and beta
playtester of Gurps as well as Auto-Dueling Association-mate of first Car Wars
AADA champion (of the infamous T.O.O.B.A.D. "Tulsa Overt Operators for the
Betterment of Auto Dueling) in your legal department.  >>

Don't have a legal department. We have a law-critter on retainer that we
consult when the need arises. 

Doug Berry said:
<<Expect a mysterious phone call.  You now qualify for the Templers.  <FNORD>
>>

My Dad was a Knight Templar. Had a neato sword and a funny hat with a feather
on it. 

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:

> A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE, a
> RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
> personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but such a
> device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had been
> made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough energy to
> blast through that much armour

Well, in Twilight: 2000, we ... Ah, Rupert has already answered for me, I see.
I had a game once where a guy was hit by a 122mm tank round, and argued with
me about the damage he took, claiming he was too close for the round to have
armed, and that it therefore did not go off. I ruled that he had a 122mm hole
in his -- (rattle-rattle) -- abdomen. When I told him that was just under five
inches, he gave up and starting rolling his new character

Arming distance for a US 40mm GL is about 30 yards, I think. Been a long time
since I had to know. I would want it designed so that it is just beyond the
burst radius...: )

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:00:16 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: How to un sub

This message is regarding the TML which your spam filter is clogging up.
Now it appears that some one has subbed you without your knowledge. Okay
that's not your fault. Neither is it the fault of the several hundred
subscribers of the TML. So please could you simply send the following
email message to:

traveller-request@mgpn.com

and include in the body of the message:

unsubscribe travaller
end

It is the polite thing to do. I hope you act according to common decency.

Thank you.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"Avec vous votra limpet mine?"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:02:36 -0500
From: "Commander X (aka Arcanus)" <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Re: Unsolicited Emails

>Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:31:52 -0500
>From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: <whatever>)

Not to mention:
>Subject: 
>         Returned mail: can't send message
>    Date: 
>         Tue, 17 Mar 1998 01:22:57 +0200
>   From: 
>         MAILER-DAEMON@happy.carrier.kiev.ua
>      To: 
>         cmdrx@magicnet.net

>Unrecoverable error: 
>can't send message
>Therefore I must return message to you.
>Original message follows:

(.ua=The Ukraine?)

A kind request:

This looks like a triggered responce to any and all TML posts sent to
Emery Dennis.  Would Mr. Dennis please shut off this 'feature' as it is
cluttering up the TML and listmembers mailboxes as well.

Thank you.

Commander X

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #283
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com

Traveller-digest       Monday, March 16 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 284



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Military protocol question...
Re: Military protocol question...
How to un sub
RE: Military protocol question...
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Traveller Stuff for Sale)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts))
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry)
Unsolicited Emails (was RE: Military protocol question...)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Bad news for those that don't know:[Fwd: Would you rather...?])
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Pronunciation of Regina)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Traveller Stuff for Sale)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Pronunciation of Regina)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Miscellany)
Re: Miscellany
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Miscellany)
Re: Pronunciation of Regina
Re: Military protocol question...
Setting up
Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Bad news for those that don't know:[Fwd: Would you rather...?])
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Pronunciation of Regina)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:52:11 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: Military protocol question...

At 04:04 PM 16/03/98 -0800,	Jason wrote:
>  In the USMC, it went something like this:
>
>  Male officers were Sir, women were Ma'am.  In boot camp everybody is Sir, 
>which you stop as soon as you get out of boot camp.  Very confusing.  You 
>can get away with calling an officer by their first name, but only if you 
>are a senior officer.  Enlisted can call officers by their rank, but only 
>if you're senior enough to get away with it.  I (as a Corporal) was able to 
>get away with "Come here, Lieutenant", but if I'd tried that with the 
>Captain, I would have been harmed in very special ways only taught to 
>infantry officers.  If you've been around a while, you can get away with 
>Skipper for Captains,  but it's a case by case basis.

When in the Army (as a Lance Corporal) I would never have said "come here"
to any officer, because it sounds like an order. "Could you take a look at
this, Sir" or "Over here!" in the field perhaps, though there were some
idiot officers who seemed to think that while snipers would see rank badges
or salutes they would hear or understand "Sir". Of course 'Sir' is a
wonderfully insulting word when part of a career NSO's vocabulary.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:55:23 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

At 05:24 PM 16/03/98 -0600, Eris wrote:
>IMTU, all Officers are honorary "Sirs", and are addressed as such, as in
>"Yes, Sir!  Aye, aye Sir!"
>
>Informally, Junior Officers are refered to as "Mr", as in "Check with Mr
>Robinson."

IIRC this was the correct form of address for Midshipmen and Warrant
Officers in the old Royal Navy.

>Sure thing!  In *some* cultures.  ;-> If the culture is truely equal
>opportunity, then it might not matter whether Sir or Ma'am is used.  In a
>culture that professes equality, but isn't really there, it would probably
>matter more.

I liked the way it was a sign in Brin's _The Uplift War_ that you were out
in the boonies when women were addressed with "Ma'am" as opposed to the
equal opportunity "Ser".


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:21:43 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: How to un sub

This message is regarding the TML which your spam filter is clogging up.
Now it appears that some one has subbed you without your knowledge. Okay
that's not your fault. Neither is it the fault of the several hundred
subscribers of the TML. So please could you simply send the following
email message to:

traveller-request@mgpn.com

and include in the body of the message:

unsubscribe travaller
end

It is the polite thing to do. I hope you act according to common decency.

Thank you.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"Avec vous votra limpet mine?"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:29:03 -0800
From: jasonw@cylink.com (Jason Williams)
Subject: RE: Military protocol question...

On Monday, March 16, 1998 5:52 PM, Rupert Boleyn [SMTP:rboleyn@clear.net.nz] wrote:
> At 04:04 PM 16/03/98 -0800,	Jason wrote:
> >  In the USMC, it went something like this:
> >
> >  Male officers were Sir, women were Ma'am.  In boot camp everybody is Sir, 
> >which you stop as soon as you get out of boot camp.  Very confusing.  You 
> >can get away with calling an officer by their first name, but only if you 
> >are a senior officer.  Enlisted can call officers by their rank, but only 
> >if you're senior enough to get away with it.  I (as a Corporal) was able to 
> >get away with "Come here, Lieutenant", but if I'd tried that with the 
> >Captain, I would have been harmed in very special ways only taught to 
> >infantry officers.  If you've been around a while, you can get away with 
> >Skipper for Captains,  but it's a case by case basis.
> 
> When in the Army (as a Lance Corporal) I would never have said "come here"
> to any officer, because it sounds like an order. "Could you take a look at
> this, Sir" or "Over here!" in the field perhaps, though there were some
> idiot officers who seemed to think that while snipers would see rank badges
> or salutes they would hear or understand "Sir". Of course 'Sir' is a
> wonderfully insulting word when part of a career NSO's vocabulary.
> 
  Admittedly, it only works with very junior officers, or if you have some power/pull in your unit.  But it is entertaining as hell..

  Just as a side-note on this, USMC does not condone calling Lieutenants "LT".  Apparently that's an Army thing only..

	Jason
	jasonw@cylink.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:55:19 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Traveller Stuff for Sale)

At 07:07 PM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:
>Dear Sir;
>
>I am VERY interested in Book 8 (Robots), but to be honest I have no idea what
>to bid. Please let me know what you want for it.
>
>Seth
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:55:30 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts))

At 10:57 PM 3/16/98, you wrote:
>Moin Scott Taylor,
>
>> Can we get this jerk* removed from the mailing list *please*?
>> *I wouldn't call him a jerk; he's obviously been signed up for the list 
>> by someone else. But his damn auto-reply is spamming the list, and *that* 
>> qualifies him as a jek, by definition (Spam = jerk)
>
>	NetCom has been known for spam, and is one of the main relays
>	of spam. I think a postmaster has installed a filter and TML
>	is triggering the filter. While its good that they start doing
>	something against their spam problem, the postmaster deserves
>	... ;-)
>
>-- 
> mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
>		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:55:41 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)

At 05:24 PM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On 03/16/98 at 02:29 PM,  "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net> said:
>
>>I'm working on a Traveller-based short story (which I may post to the list
>>later, if it turns out okay...), and I was wondering: how is a female
>>command officer addressed? Sir, or Ma'am?
>
>Depends on the culture.  
>
>IMTU, all Officers are honorary "Sirs", and are addressed as such, as in
>"Yes, Sir!  Aye, aye Sir!"
>
>Informally, Junior Officers are refered to as "Mr", as in "Check with Mr
>Robinson."
>
>Senior Officers and in formal situations Junior Officers are refered to by
>Rank, as in "Ensign Pulver, contact Major Marie and Commander Jones."
>
>Very informally, Officers may be refered to by certain nicknames as long as
>respect is clearly being shown, as in "Yes Ma'am, I've got a message from
>the XO, he says the Skipper will be late for her meeting with the Chief."
>
>IYTU, do it however you like. ;->
>
>>The main character is a female captain of a destroyer (equal
>>opportunity in the future!).
>
>Sure thing!  In *some* cultures.  ;-> If the culture is truely equal
>opportunity, then it might not matter whether Sir or Ma'am is used.  In a
>culture that professes equality, but isn't really there, it would probably
>matter more.
>
>Eris
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:55:28 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: New thread: Schedules, Flight Plans, Lost Ship Registry)

At 10:48 PM 3/16/98, you wrote:
>Moin Anders Backman,
>
>> As flightplans are secret and should be so for business competitional
>> reasons a major part of adventuring IMTU is bribing/stealing/deducting
>> flightplans and avoiding/falsifying/tampering the same.
>
>	sorry flight plans are not secret ;-( MT Knight Fall :
>
>	" One world with law level 7-, transponder traffic logs are
>	freely available to public scrutiny just for asking. If the
>	worlds law level is 8 or 9, a permit is neede. Application
>	usualy involves a payment of a token fee (1d*25Cr), filling
>	out some paperwork. [...] If the law level is extreme, traffic
>	records are not available unless you can prove you have a
>	legitimate need to see them. "
>
>-- 
> mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
>		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:55:39 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was RE: Military protocol question...)

At 04:04 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>  In the USMC, it went something like this:
>
>  Male officers were Sir, women were Ma'am.  In boot camp everybody is Sir, 
>which you stop as soon as you get out of boot camp.  Very confusing.  You 
>can get away with calling an officer by their first name, but only if you 
>are a senior officer.  Enlisted can call officers by their rank, but only 
>if you're senior enough to get away with it.  I (as a Corporal) was able to 
>get away with "Come here, Lieutenant", but if I'd tried that with the 
>Captain, I would have been harmed in very special ways only taught to 
>infantry officers.  If you've been around a while, you can get away with 
>Skipper for Captains,  but it's a case by case basis.
>
>	Jason
>	jasonw@cylink.com
>
>On Monday, March 16, 1998 4:01 PM, Rupert Boleyn 
>[SMTP:rboleyn@clear.net.nz] wrote:
>> At 02:29 PM 16/03/98 -0600, Andrew Akins wrote:
>> >I'm working on a Traveller-based short story (which I may post to the 
>list
>> >later, if it turns out okay...), and I was wondering: how is a female
>> >command officer addressed? Sir, or Ma'am?
>> >
>> >The main character is a female captain of a destroyer (equal opportunity 
>in
>> >the future!).
>>
>> In New Zealand all female officers in any service are addressed as 
>'Ma'am'
>> or by rank (if your rank is only a little lower or is higher, or the
>> situation is relatively informal).
>>
>> I don't know how accurate the movies are, but we always used to laugh at 
>US
>> privates having to call their NCOs 'Sir'. If we did that the laest you'd
>> get was "Don't insult me like that again - I work for my pay. Give me 30!
>> (press-ups)".
>>
>>
>> -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>>    Palmerston North
>>    New Zealand
>> 
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:55:56 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Bad news for those that don't know:[Fwd: Would you rather...?])

At 04:29 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>To All:
>
>After talking to Tim Brown of Destination Games, I figured that I would
>share this bleak bit of information. For those that don't know Tim
>Brown, he is the President of Destination Games that produce TRAVELLER
>for Imperium Games, Inc..
>
>--
>
>Mike Wittek | Vacaville, California
>mailto:mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com
>     "Democracy isn't just the best form of government; It's the only
>one even remotely worth a damn. Only democracy guarantees that people
>get what they deserve."   --Zena Marley
>
>DISCLAIMER: All that I write is my own opinion, and my opinion may not
>be the opinion of my school or electronic courier. For that matter, it
>may not be your opinion, but deal with it.
>
>Return-Path: <destination@destination2.com>
>Received: from inet01.pensys.com (www.pensys.com [206.190.30.162])
>	by hood.concentric.net (8.8.5/)
>	id LAA13566; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:22:00 -0500 (EST)
>	[ConcentricHost MX Server]
>Errors-To: <destination@destination2.com>
>Received: from imperium ([156.46.95.94]) by inet01.pensys.com
>          (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c)
>          ID# 0-34672U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA190
>          for <mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com>;
>          Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:25:17 -0600
>X-Sender: destination@destination2.com
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>To: Mike Wittek <mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com>
>From: destination@destination2.com (Destination Video (Tim Brown))
>Subject: Re: Would you rather...?
>Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:25:17 -0600
>Message-ID: <19980316162516826.AAA190@imperium>
>
>>Tim Brown:
>>
>>You *strongly* suggested that Imperium Games was not going to make
>>anymore TRAVELLER books. Would you like me to keep that information to
>>myself, or would you care if I were let it be known?
>>
>Good question. I know that corporately it's best to keep the "best face" on
>things and not rule out the possibility of a full recovery. However, it is
>most definitely my opinion that Imperium Games will not produce any future
>Traveller products, and you can quote me on that if you like.
>
>Tim
>
>>Respectfully,
>>--
>>
>>Mike Wittek | Vacaville, California
>>mailto:mwittek@thelair.cnchost.com
>>     "Democracy isn't just the best form of government; It's the only
>>one even remotely worth a damn. Only democracy guarantees that people
>>get what they deserve."   --Zena Marley
>>
>>
>>Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s"
>
>>Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s"
>>Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
>>
>>Attachment Converted: C:\EUDORA\SMIME.P7S
>>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:55:51 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Pronunciation of Regina)

At 07:21 PM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-03-15 23:15:53 EST, you write:
>
><< 
> Douglas Sinclair <eem2ds@ee.surrey.ac.uk> writes:
> >Just to throw more fuel on the fire, there's a city in Saskatchewan called
> >Regina. 
> 
> True. Saskatchewan also has a city called Saskatoon (where I grew up),
> which is also a planet in the Solomani Rim. I figured it was named by some
> homesick grasshopper during one of the Interstellar Wars.
> 
>  >>
>
>Somewhere one of the books tells us the names of the gas giant which Regina
>orbits, and some of the other worlds in the Regina system. I wonder what
those
>names are?
>
>
>Marc
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:56:04 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Traveller Stuff for Sale)

At 05:36 PM 3/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
> 
>> I am VERY interested in Book 8 (Robots), but to be honest I have no idea
what
>> to bid. Please let me know what you want for it.
>
>Robots is going very dearly--$50 is the current bid *blink*.
>Surprised the hell outta me.
>
>-Merrick
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:24:30 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Pronunciation of Regina)

At 07:41 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>CardSharks wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 98-03-15 23:15:53 EST, you write:
>>
>> <<
>>  Douglas Sinclair <eem2ds@ee.surrey.ac.uk> writes:
>>  >Just to throw more fuel on the fire, there's a city in Saskatchewan
called
>>  >Regina.
>>
>>  True. Saskatchewan also has a city called Saskatoon (where I grew up),
>>  which is also a planet in the Solomani Rim. I figured it was named by some
>>  homesick grasshopper during one of the Interstellar Wars.
>>
>>   >>
>>
>> Somewhere one of the books tells us the names of the gas giant which Regina
>> orbits, and some of the other worlds in the Regina system. I wonder what
those
>> names are?
>
>P. 21 of  Megatraveller Referee's Manual.  Its called Assiniboia.  Here's the
>funny thing though... check out Lashir, a size S planetoid with FIVE
moons! (every
>one of them larger than the planet itself.)
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:24:44 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Miscellany)

At 07:58 PM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:
>Bloo said:
>
><<You'll let me know if y'all could use this Yankee-educated Texan and beta
>playtester of Gurps as well as Auto-Dueling Association-mate of first Car
Wars
>AADA champion (of the infamous T.O.O.B.A.D. "Tulsa Overt Operators for the
>Betterment of Auto Dueling) in your legal department.  >>
>
>Don't have a legal department. We have a law-critter on retainer that we
>consult when the need arises. 
>
>Doug Berry said:
><<Expect a mysterious phone call.  You now qualify for the Templers.  <FNORD>
>>>
>
>My Dad was a Knight Templar. Had a neato sword and a funny hat with a feather
>on it. 
>
>On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:
>
>> A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE, a
>> RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
>> personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but such a
>> device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had been
>> made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough
energy to
>> blast through that much armour
>
>Well, in Twilight: 2000, we ... Ah, Rupert has already answered for me, I
see.
>I had a game once where a guy was hit by a 122mm tank round, and argued with
>me about the damage he took, claiming he was too close for the round to have
>armed, and that it therefore did not go off. I ruled that he had a 122mm hole
>in his -- (rattle-rattle) -- abdomen. When I told him that was just under
five
>inches, he gave up and starting rolling his new character
>
>Arming distance for a US 40mm GL is about 30 yards, I think. Been a long time
>since I had to know. I would want it designed so that it is just beyond the
>burst radius...: )
>
>Loren Wiseman
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:24:42 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Miscellany

At 07:58 PM 16/03/98 EST, Loren Wiseman wrote:
>Well, in Twilight: 2000, we ... Ah, Rupert has already answered for me, I
see.
>I had a game once where a guy was hit by a 122mm tank round, and argued with
>me about the damage he took, claiming he was too close for the round to have
>armed, and that it therefore did not go off. I ruled that he had a 122mm hole
>in his -- (rattle-rattle) -- abdomen. When I told him that was just under
five
>inches, he gave up and starting rolling his new character

That reminds me of the Good Old Days of Aftermath! and TW:2000 which I
haven't played since TNE came out, um how many years ago? 5? FIVE! Good lord! 

I can see an attack of severe firepower coming on in my next Sci-fi game :)




- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:55:00 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Miscellany)

At 02:24 PM 3/17/98 +1200, you wrote:
>At 07:58 PM 16/03/98 EST, Loren Wiseman wrote:
>>Well, in Twilight: 2000, we ... Ah, Rupert has already answered for me, I
>see.
>>I had a game once where a guy was hit by a 122mm tank round, and argued with
>>me about the damage he took, claiming he was too close for the round to have
>>armed, and that it therefore did not go off. I ruled that he had a 122mm
hole
>>in his -- (rattle-rattle) -- abdomen. When I told him that was just under
>five
>>inches, he gave up and starting rolling his new character
>
>That reminds me of the Good Old Days of Aftermath! and TW:2000 which I
>haven't played since TNE came out, um how many years ago? 5? FIVE! Good
lord! 
>
>I can see an attack of severe firepower coming on in my next Sci-fi game :)
>
>
>
>
>-- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>   Palmerston North
>   New Zealand
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:58:01 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Regina

Phil wrote:

>  Doesn't that sound like "vagina" ?

Oh, jeezus!!!!!  WE CAN'T HAVE THAT, NOW, CAN WE??  GOD FORBID THERE SHOULD
BE EVEN THE SLIGHTEST FREAKIN' SUGGESTION OF SEX IN THE TRAV UNIVERSE!!!!
YE GODS!!!!  IT MIGHT WATER DOWN THE GRIPPING DISCUSSIONS OF RAM GRENADES
AND BLOWING UP PLANETS AND WHETHER TO CALL JACKBOOTED THUGS "SIR" OR
"MA'AM"!!!!!!  HELL, NO!!!!!

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:00:55 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

>I liked the way it was a sign in Brin's _The Uplift War_ that you were out
>in the boonies when women were addressed with "Ma'am" as opposed to the
>equal opportunity "Ser".

Of course, by the time one achieves a truly egalitarian, "equal
opportunity" society, articles of address of any sort would have long since
fallen out of use, being the uselessly hierarchical fripperies that they
are <G>

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:01:06 AST/ADT
From: "Gary MacKeigan" <GARYMAC@cbbc.cbbc.ns.ca>
Subject: Setting up

I'm new to Traveller, as is the group I GM for.  I just have a few 
questions for anyone who would wish to answer.

1.  Based on the information in the T4 main rulebook, what year should 
I start my campaign in?

2.  Is there some reason why there are worlds only two parsecs away from 
the Imperium that have not been contacted in hundreds of years, as 
indicated in the back of the main rulebook?  Why?

3.  Does the Imperium encompass more worlds than are indicated in the 
back of the rulebook (ie. in the subsectors above Core and to the left)?

If someone would answer these questions for me, or point me in the 
direction to find my own answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Gary MacKeigan
gary@cbbc.cbbc.ns.ca

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:21:04 -0500
From: Tal Meta <talmeta@cybercomm.net>
Subject: Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Bad news for those that don't know:[Fwd: Would you rather...?])

Alright already. Will the list monitor for TML please step up and boot
this poltroon?

Emery Dennis wrote:
> An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
> <emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:12:13 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Pronunciation of Regina)

At 05:58 PM 3/16/98 +0800, you wrote:
>Phil wrote:
>
>>  Doesn't that sound like "vagina" ?
>
>Oh, jeezus!!!!!  WE CAN'T HAVE THAT, NOW, CAN WE??  GOD FORBID THERE SHOULD
>BE EVEN THE SLIGHTEST FREAKIN' SUGGESTION OF SEX IN THE TRAV UNIVERSE!!!!
>YE GODS!!!!  IT MIGHT WATER DOWN THE GRIPPING DISCUSSIONS OF RAM GRENADES
>AND BLOWING UP PLANETS AND WHETHER TO CALL JACKBOOTED THUGS "SIR" OR
>"MA'AM"!!!!!!  HELL, NO!!!!!
>
>Kenji Schwarz
>kenji@accessone.com
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #284
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, March 17 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 285



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Military protocol question...
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Setting up)
Unsolicited Emails (was RE: Military protocol question...)
Ra-Ra, Ra-gee-nah
Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Ra-Ra, Ra-gee-nah)
Re: TNE GL HEAP
Emery Dennis' Future
Re: TNE GL HEAP
Re: TNE GL HEAP
Re: TNE GL HEAP
Re: Military protocol question...
Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Re: Bad news for those that don't know...
Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Re: Pronunciation of Regina
Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)
Re: Military protocol question...
RE: Military protocol question...
Re: Miscellany
The Emery Dennis Memorial Wall of Spam
Re: Military Protocol Question
Re: Miscellany
Re: Military protocol question...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:18:40 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: Military protocol question...

At 05:29 PM 16/03/98 -0800, Jason wrote:
>  Just as a side-note on this, USMC does not condone calling Lieutenants
"LT".  Apparently that's an Army thing only..

We used it as a term of derision, along with 'Zeke' (from Tour of Duty) for
a Platoon Sergeant (which is an appointment not a rank in NZ).



- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:19:02 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Military protocol question...)

At 06:00 PM 3/16/98 +0800, you wrote:
>Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
>>I liked the way it was a sign in Brin's _The Uplift War_ that you were out
>>in the boonies when women were addressed with "Ma'am" as opposed to the
>>equal opportunity "Ser".
>
>Of course, by the time one achieves a truly egalitarian, "equal
>opportunity" society, articles of address of any sort would have long since
>fallen out of use, being the uselessly hierarchical fripperies that they
>are <G>
>
>Kenji Schwarz
>kenji@accessone.com
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:19:00 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Setting up)

At 10:01 PM 3/16/98 AST/ADT, you wrote:
>I'm new to Traveller, as is the group I GM for.  I just have a few 
>questions for anyone who would wish to answer.
>
>1.  Based on the information in the T4 main rulebook, what year should 
>I start my campaign in?
>
>2.  Is there some reason why there are worlds only two parsecs away from 
>the Imperium that have not been contacted in hundreds of years, as 
>indicated in the back of the main rulebook?  Why?
>
>3.  Does the Imperium encompass more worlds than are indicated in the 
>back of the rulebook (ie. in the subsectors above Core and to the left)?
>
>If someone would answer these questions for me, or point me in the 
>direction to find my own answers, I would greatly appreciate it.
>
>Gary MacKeigan
>gary@cbbc.cbbc.ns.ca
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:40:12 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was RE: Military protocol question...)

At 03:18 PM 3/17/98 +1200, you wrote:
>At 05:29 PM 16/03/98 -0800, Jason wrote:
>>  Just as a side-note on this, USMC does not condone calling Lieutenants
>"LT".  Apparently that's an Army thing only..
>
>We used it as a term of derision, along with 'Zeke' (from Tour of Duty) for
>a Platoon Sergeant (which is an appointment not a rank in NZ).
>
>
>
>-- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>   Palmerston North
>   New Zealand
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:38:37 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Ra-Ra, Ra-gee-nah

Marc asks:

>Somewhere one of the books tells us the names of the gas giant which Regina
>orbits, and some of the other worlds in the Regina system. I wonder what those
>names are?

Regina orbits a gas giant called Assiniboia (pronounced to ryme with "luxury
yacht," another connection with Saskatchewan?), which is the fourth world out
from the star Lusor (_not_ pronounced Loser).

WRT addressing officers:

I have heard tell of a very senior Marine NCO who liked to call newly minted
junior LTs "skippie" and reserved "skipper" for officers he liked, regardless
of rank.


Totally unrelated USMC DI story I tell because I feel like it: 

WWII training camp, DI stands in front of the mob just off the bus and
announces that if any man thinks he can take him, to step forward. The bus, as
it happens, was filled with very large, corn-fed, Minnesota Lutheran farmboys
of Viking descent, all of whom looked at each other, and nodded, and all
stepped forward. Noticing that there were 40 of them and not feeling up to
clobbering more than 20 or so, the DI announced that these were just the raw
material that the Corps was looking for, and he would take great pleasure in
turning them into Marines. 

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:51:36 -0500
From: Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Ra-Ra, Ra-gee-nah)

At 09:38 PM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:
>Marc asks:
>
>>Somewhere one of the books tells us the names of the gas giant which Regina
>>orbits, and some of the other worlds in the Regina system. I wonder what
>those
>>names are?
>
>Regina orbits a gas giant called Assiniboia (pronounced to ryme with "luxury
>yacht," another connection with Saskatchewan?), which is the fourth world out
>from the star Lusor (_not_ pronounced Loser).
>
>WRT addressing officers:
>
>I have heard tell of a very senior Marine NCO who liked to call newly minted
>junior LTs "skippie" and reserved "skipper" for officers he liked, regardless
>of rank.
>
>
>Totally unrelated USMC DI story I tell because I feel like it: 
>
>WWII training camp, DI stands in front of the mob just off the bus and
>announces that if any man thinks he can take him, to step forward. The
bus, as
>it happens, was filled with very large, corn-fed, Minnesota Lutheran farmboys
>of Viking descent, all of whom looked at each other, and nodded, and all
>stepped forward. Noticing that there were 40 of them and not feeling up to
>clobbering more than 20 or so, the DI announced that these were just the raw
>material that the Corps was looking for, and he would take great pleasure in
>turning them into Marines. 
>
>Loren Wiseman
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:18:31 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: TNE GL HEAP

Thanks, I am always curious, I have Striker, is yours different from that?

Colin
At 11:31 16/03/98 -0800, you wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:
>
>> A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE, a
>> RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
>> personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but such a
>> device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had been
>> made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough energy to
>> blast through that much armour
>
>It might not be appropriate to suggest this (since you're asking about
>TNE), but Striker 1 had a personnel damage system that was scaled entirely
>by weapon penetration (damage dice were not used).  Let me know if you
>want more info; it's a very simple system (2 TNE penetration pts = 1 cm of
>hard steel, used in Striker 1 for armor and pen ratings).  Striker 2 (the
>TNE version) handles personnel damage in an aggregate fashion, so not much
>help there.
>
>I don't know how to fix the TNE system, sorry.
>
>
>Clark
>
>
>--
>"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:39:16 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Emery Dennis' Future

Mr. Dennis, meet Mr. Plasma Cannon.
Mr. Plasma Cannon, meet Mr. Dennis.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:41:55 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: TNE GL HEAP

Thanks for the ppost, I ruled that , despite the rules, The chap had his arm
blown clean of, a lot of energy there. I thought of subtracting the AV from
the penetration, and calling the remainder as damage, (in this case 30d6) I
was mostly curious about how the mechanics in FF&S had let this one through.
BTW If I recall correctly, the M79 rounds armed after about 30m, there was a
case over here not so long ago when one was fird into the back of a truck,
fortunately the round did not have time to arm.

Colin


>Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> said;
>>A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE, a
>>RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
>>personal damage.
>
>Hmmm, Well Colin, in my own game I would say that if one were directly hit
>by a 40mm RAM HEAP grenade outside of Battle Dress your friends would be
>picking up little pieces of you from the floor and ceiling, walls, etc.
>Inside Battle Dress the mess would be reduced, but the results (on a
>penetrating hit that is) would be the same.
>
>But you seem to favor a more 'gamey' solution, ok.
>
>I see a couple of options.  The damage for that grenade was intended to be
>applied to folk in the blast radius which, being a directed blast, can be
>considered pretty minimal.  HEAP grenades are generally fired at something
>other than a person (except, possibly, when in Battle Dress or equiv.).  So
>I think the damage applied was for the person standing next to the actual
>target but within the blast radius.  Fair enough.
>
>If a person were within the penetrating cone of superheated plasma that is
>generated by a HEAP warhead (40mm or not), that energy would go into their
>body directly, and likely out the other side, leaving a hole which may be
>inconvenient to continued internal organ operation.  Apply damage as though
>the target were hit by a laser rifle at close range.
>
>If the individual were wearing armor the effects are probably even worse.
>A HEAP grenade is specifically designed to cause 'spalling' or flying
>fragments on the inside of the vehicle being hit.  Applying this principle
>to, say, battle dress, on a penetrating hit I would say that there were a
>number of small fragments of armor bouncing around within the armored torso
>of the target, causing considerable discomfort.  I guess the equivalent of
>a shotgun blast in damage to the target (as though unarmored) at close
>range would approximate the result.
>
>In either case, and even if the shot does not penetrate, there should be a
>considerable amount of kinetic energy involved, blowing the target in the
>direction of travel of the grenade several meters (like, 2-4 and into any
>intervening obstacles).  That character, if alive, should then be stunned
>for at least a round, and be suffering from bruises and possible broken
>ribs etc.
>
>Now, one thing to remember is that launched grenades tend to have an arming
>mechanism that depends on rotation.  The fuse arms after taking a certain
>number of rotations after leaving the barrel.  This means you need a few
>meters (anyone know how many? I would guess at least 5 meters) before the
>grenade is armed.  I suppose someone with the appropriate skill could
>modify them to allow quicker arming, but then again a person with that
>skill may be too smart to do so.  In any case the upshot is that a RAM HEAP
>grenade is *not* a good close in weapon.  Once you're no longer 'close in'
>hitting a man-sized fast-moving object with a rocket propelled grenade
>directly should be significantly harder to do (barring suprise, of course).
>
>I had a character (Gregory MacGregor - and roll those R's) who spent whole
>adventures carring nothing but a magazine fed 40mm grenade launcher (an M79
>with a clip, basically).  Other characters reacted very quickly when he
>said "duck".
>
>Pete
>
>
>                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
>"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
>  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:42:59 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: TNE GL HEAP

Sounds like a good idea
At 14:43 16/03/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>I think that a _direct_ (physical contact) hit with such a weapon causes
>damage in dice equal to the Penetration Value.  At least I seem to remember
>reading this somewhere...
>
>
>On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:
>
>> A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE,
>a
>> RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
>> personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but such
>a
>> device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had
>been
>> made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough energy
>to
>> blast through that much armour
>
>Steven Charlton
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:59:00 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: TNE GL HEAP

Thanks, I like the first idea better, I have TW2000 somewhere so I think I
will check that out to see how different it is from TNE.

Cheers,
Colin
At 08:57 17/03/98 +1200, you wrote:
>At 11:31 AM 16/03/98 -0800, Clark wrote:
>>On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:
>>
>>> A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE, a
>>> RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
>>> personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but such a
>>> device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had been
>>> made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough
>energy to
>>> blast through that much armour
>>
>>It might not be appropriate to suggest this (since you're asking about
>>TNE), but Striker 1 had a personnel damage system that was scaled entirely
>>by weapon penetration (damage dice were not used).  Let me know if you
>>want more info; it's a very simple system (2 TNE penetration pts = 1 cm of
>>hard steel, used in Striker 1 for armor and pen ratings).  Striker 2 (the
>>TNE version) handles personnel damage in an aggregate fashion, so not much
>>help there.
>>
>>I don't know how to fix the TNE system, sorry.
>
>The TW:2000 fix was to apply either the penetration or double the
>concussion in dice to the target. TNE seems to sort of do this by adding
>the 'contact' concussion rule, which didn't exist in TW:2000, but as has
>been mentioned that isn't very much in the case of little rounds.
>
>
>-- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
>   Palmerston North
>   New Zealand
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:00:09 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

> I don't disagree with you.  If you are not an officer in TOS, you are
something
> best scraped off a shoe!  (Of course, if you were in security,chances are
that
> is EXACTLY what your fate would be.  Poor red shirts....

Now here's what I'd like to see:  a battle between the red-shirted lackeys
from ST:TOS and the Stormtroopers from Star Wars.

By law the red shirts must die, but, by law the Stormtroopers can't hit the
broadside of a barn...  It would be a long, boring, drawn out battle ending
in a stalemate.

semo@pil.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:01:42 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

I'm an old fart. When did a Plasma gun get turned into a Plasma cannon? :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:14:06 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Bad news for those that don't know...

Okay.  Is there any confirmation on this?  Is IG officially gone, done and
over with?  Will Phil MacGregor be able to do his victory dance on the
ruins of Imperium Games?

semo@pil.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:15:51 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

Steve Daniels schrieb:
> 
> Mr. Dennis, meet Mr. Plasma Cannon.
> Mr. Plasma Cannon, meet Mr. Dennis.
Splurt! Damn, there goes the Earl Grey....

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
*Volker A. Greimann...Am Weidengraben 86, C6...54296 Trier*
********http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061*********
****grei5001@uni-trier.de* or try * greimann@geocities.com****
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:03:16 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Regina

 Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com> sayeth:

>Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Regina
>
>CardSharks wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Somewhere one of the books tells us the names of the gas giant which Regina
>> orbits, and some of the other worlds in the Regina system. I wonder what those
>> names are?
>
>P. 21 of  Megatraveller Referee's Manual.  Its called Assiniboia.  Here's the
>funny thing though... check out Lashir, a size S planetoid with FIVE moons!
>(every one of them larger than the planet itself.)

  Typo! The orbit number for Lashir is not properly indented. It is really
the innermost moon of Elazair. See Page 55 of Book 6-Scouts for the
original listing of the Regina system...

GypsyComet

PS: The website is bigger now, and still growing
   http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:24:23 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)

>> by someone else. But his damn auto-reply is spamming the list, and *that*
>> qualifies him as a jek, by definition (Spam = jerk)

Yes, and he's been reported for spamming us.

>	NetCom has been known for spam, and is one of the main relays
>	of spam. I think a postmaster has installed a filter and TML
>	is triggering the filter. While its good that they start doing
>	something against their spam problem, the postmaster deserves
>	... ;-)

I doubt it, or myself and a lot of other people on the list wouldn't have
been annoyed by this nonsense.

Personally after looking at the headers and seeing that the messages were
sent using Eudora Pro 3 for Windows, I suspect either the spamming of the
list was on purpose or this idiot has the most ridiculous set of filters in
place ever.

				Zane

| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:19:23 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

At 01:55 PM 3/17/98 +1200, you wrote:
>At 05:24 PM 16/03/98 -0600, Eris wrote:
>>IMTU, all Officers are honorary "Sirs", and are addressed as such, as in
>>"Yes, Sir!  Aye, aye Sir!"
>>
>>Informally, Junior Officers are refered to as "Mr", as in "Check with Mr
>>Robinson."
>
>IIRC this was the correct form of address for Midshipmen and Warrant
>Officers in the old Royal Navy.

In the modern US Army Warrant Officers are called Mister So-and-so, and are
entitled to salutes.  They confused the hell ot of most of us, so we
avoided them.  Easy to do as a grunt.
- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:22:14 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: RE: Military protocol question...

At 03:18 PM 3/17/98 +1200, you wrote:
>At 05:29 PM 16/03/98 -0800, Jason wrote:
>>  Just as a side-note on this, USMC does not condone calling Lieutenants
>"LT".  Apparently that's an Army thing only..
>
>We used it as a term of derision, along with 'Zeke' (from Tour of Duty) for
>a Platoon Sergeant (which is an appointment not a rank in NZ).

Odd, in my time, our Platoon Leader was the LT, every other O-1/O-2 was a
generic Lieutenant.  Even then, the officer had to earn our trust before we
started calling him LT to his face.  Even then, it was mostly a field sort
of thing.
- --

+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
|    "But think of Korea, of Guadalcanal, of  |
| Belleau Wood, of Viet Nam.  The H-bomb did  |
| not abolish the infantryman; it made him    |
| essential... and he has the toughest job of |
| all and should be honored."                 |
|                       - Robert Heinlein     |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:26:03 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Miscellany

At 07:58 PM 3/16/98 EST, Loren wrote:

>Doug Berry said:
><<Expect a mysterious phone call.  You now qualify for the Templers.  <FNORD>
>
>My Dad was a Knight Templar. Had a neato sword and a funny hat with a feather
>on it. 

And now you work for SJG.  I'm afraid.  Order the corndogs, Solomani!

This all begins to make sense.. Craig?  When does the Mayan calender have
the Fifth Sun ending, and how close is that to the incoming asteroid?

- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 01:30:55 -0500
From: trcobb@cstone.net (Toby R. Cobb)
Subject: The Emery Dennis Memorial Wall of Spam

Seems to me that the Virus that was talked about in TNE has taken a new 
form.....

I'm hoping that this will reach the mailing list administrator by copying 
to  the owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com address.
If this results in a double serving of  Mr. Dennis'  anti-spam spam, please 
temper your flame mail with the knowledge that burning spam is most 
malodorous.

If I use the word "spam" one more time, I'm gonna feel like I'm in a Monty 
Python skit...  :\

Any, some real content now...  does anyone know if  there are any of the 
old Martian Metals 15mm miniatures to be had?
The group I play with still uses Snapshot and swears by it. I could use 
most any humanoid figures, but the air/raft would be the coup de grace.

Thanks in advance!

Toby

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:23:31 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Military Protocol Question

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:39:41 -0500, you wrote:

>Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:52:17 -0500
>From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Military protocol question...
>
>dberry@hooked.net wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, the Star Trek series seems to have occassions where
>> female officers were addressed as "Sir."  Of course, it took Star Trek
>> twenty years to even show us enlisted personal, so I can't really truet
>> them.

During WW2 those US services that had female auxiliaries (and I think this
included the Nurses, tho that would date back to WW1, I guess) *officially*
required female officers to be referred to as "Sir" ... this was almost
universally ignored, in favour of "Ma'am", and was eventually officially
replaced, AFAIR before the war was over.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
YES! Dark Star is now available from Hyperbooks.com!
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:36:43 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Miscellany

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> At 07:58 PM 3/16/98 EST, Loren wrote:
>
> >Doug Berry said:
> ><<Expect a mysterious phone call.  You now qualify for the Templers.  <FNORD>
> >
> >My Dad was a Knight Templar. Had a neato sword and a funny hat with a feather
> >on it.
>
> And now you work for SJG.  I'm afraid.  Order the corndogs, Solomani!
>
> This all begins to make sense.. Craig?  When does the Mayan calender have
> the Fifth Sun ending, and how close is that to the incoming asteroid?

The asteroid is approx. 30 years away - 2028.
The Mayan Calendar thing, I just plain forgot. I know its in the next century and
I think theres a 7 in it.  207x, 20x7.  (I think its in the background material in
the Shadowrun Rulebook).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:43:20 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

Chris Seamans wrote:

> > I don't disagree with you.  If you are not an officer in TOS, you are
> something
> > best scraped off a shoe!  (Of course, if you were in security,chances are
> that
> > is EXACTLY what your fate would be.  Poor red shirts....
>
> Now here's what I'd like to see:  a battle between the red-shirted lackeys
> from ST:TOS and the Stormtroopers from Star Wars.
>
> By law the red shirts must die, but, by law the Stormtroopers can't hit the
> broadside of a barn...  It would be a long, boring, drawn out battle ending
> in a stalemate.

Semo, you sir are a genius!  Have you seen the TROOPS parody of COPS and
Stormtroopers?  If you haven't, send me a blank zip disk and I'll fill put all
80 megs of this beautiful comedy treasure on it for you.  ST:TOS vs.
Stormtroopers is the next logical step!

I'll help write a script.  This must be done.  If nothing else, the idea must
be passed on to the TROOPS creators.

Bloo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #285
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, March 17 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 286



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Unusual settings & campaigns
Re: Military protocol question...
RE: Military protocol question...
Spamnation
Re: Unusual settings & campaigns
Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Bad news for those that don't know:[Fwd: Would you rather...?])
RE: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)
Rhylanor
Re: Military protocol question...
Re: Pronunciation of Regina
Unusual Traveller campaigns
re: Emery Dennis' Future
Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Re: Pronunciation of Regina
Re: Rhylanor
Re: Bad news for those that don't know...
Unusual Traveller campaigns
QSDS Help Needed
Bad news for those that don't know...[Rumor Squashing]
Re: Bad news for those that don't know...
RE: Military protocol question...
Re: Bad news for those that don't know...
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:52:06 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

Sethkimmel wrote:

> I'm an old fart. When did a Plasma gun get turned into a Plasma cannon? :-)

  When I wrote it.  You don't expect all humaniti to use the exact same
terminology, do you?  Heck, I'd use the wrong terminology on purpose just to
piss off Imperium Bureaucrats.

"Give me some Peacemaker ammo."
"Peacemaker?  We have no weapon or ammunition by that designation?"
"Come on, desk jockey.  I need 1 gross of thumpers for my Peacemaker."
"Thumpers?  <sigh> State your weapon designation, serial number and permit
number."
"Weapon: This one pointed right at you.  Serial number:  You should be able to
read it on the inside of the barrel at this distance.  Permit number: One, as
in one finger on the trigger."
" URP!  Uh . . . right you are!  1 gross 20 guage HEAP rounds for Zhunastu Arms
StreetSweeper Recoilless Repeating Shotgun, Limited Silver Edition!  Here you
go.  Will there be anything else?"
"Yeah.  Which way to the pisser?"
"Uhm, do you mean the lavoratory?"
. . . .
"And thats when you acidentally 'dropped' the gun?"
"Yes, officer.  I'm sorry.  I should have been more careful, but 1 gross is a
lot of ammo to hold."



Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:01:09 +0100
From: Anders Lindborg <alg@akribi.se>
Subject: Unusual settings & campaigns

Has anyone on the list used the Traveller rules
system or portions of it for playing in settings
or campaigns very unlike the standard Traveller
settings? I'm thinking of campaigns that take 
place in a SF environment that works like the
Traveller setting, but where the political and
social background is different.

My own home campaign is one like this. It's 
not based on the Imperium or anything it the
history or future of the Imperium.

Friends of mine have used the Traveller system to
referee horror and near-future scenarios.

/Anders Lindborg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:41:28 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

At 10:19 PM 16/03/98 -0800, you wrote:
>In the modern US Army Warrant Officers are called Mister So-and-so, and are
>entitled to salutes.  They confused the hell ot of most of us, so we
>avoided them.  Easy to do as a grunt.

We have two grade of Warrant Officers - 

WO1 which replaces Sergeant Major and is still addressed as 'Sarn't Major',
dresses as an NCO, etc. 

WO2 who is an officer in all but name, is addressed as 'Sir', wears an
officers shoes, etc with his dress uniform.

The confusion is because the rank insignia for both is a wrist band WO1's
have a crown on it, WO2's the NZ coat of arms one is silver, and the other
gold but they look the same at first view so if the NCO in question is in a
normal day uniform it can get bloody sticky when you're only a Private or
Lance Corporal. Fortunately WO2s are rather rarer than Colonels of any type
and there aren't many of them, either.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:51:39 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: Military protocol question...

At 10:22 PM 16/03/98 -0800, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>At 03:18 PM 3/17/98 +1200, you wrote:
>>At 05:29 PM 16/03/98 -0800, Jason wrote:
>>>  Just as a side-note on this, USMC does not condone calling Lieutenants
>>"LT".  Apparently that's an Army thing only..
>>
>>We used it as a term of derision, along with 'Zeke' (from Tour of Duty) for
>>a Platoon Sergeant (which is an appointment not a rank in NZ).
>
>Odd, in my time, our Platoon Leader was the LT, every other O-1/O-2 was a
>generic Lieutenant.  Even then, the officer had to earn our trust before we
>started calling him LT to his face.  Even then, it was mostly a field sort
>of thing.

The NZ Army gets most of its traditions from the British rather than
American military, and tends to view US traditions as inferior, probably in
revenge for you having all that lovely shiny kit, and vehicle to carry it
in. 'Light Infantry' has got to be the biggest misnomer of the 20th century.

It used to annoy us was that the Malaysians and Indonesians use the US
style rank structure and we had to call someone who'd only been in a few
years 'Sergeant' when Regular Infantry would be lucky to have made full
Corporal by then here. It was also galling that they got to use the
Sergeants mess when they visited.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:58:54 +0000
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: Spamnation

To the Traveller list-admin,

	Can you PLEASE set the Majordomo server so that this character's email
auto-responder stops sending all this rubbish to TML.

	I run a mailing list with nearly 900 people on it, and if we get anything
like this we stop them receiving list mail straight away to avoid problems
such as this.

	I have no sympathy; they are either stupid enough to set an email
auto-responder without unsubscribing, or to let someone else access their
terminal.

	Because this guy has an auto-responder set it probably means then that
these messages could keep coming FOR WEEKS if you do not take the requried
action.

	Now my mailbox is filling up with so much rubbish it's gonna mis-jump
pretty soon, so please sort it out asap. Thanks.




Bruce E J Lewis - mailto:bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk
Telephone - 0956-506527

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:19:48 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Unusual settings & campaigns

At 09:01 AM 17/03/98 +0100, Anders Lindborg wrote:
>Has anyone on the list used the Traveller rules
>system or portions of it for playing in settings
>or campaigns very unlike the standard Traveller
>settings? I'm thinking of campaigns that take 
>place in a SF environment that works like the
>Traveller setting, but where the political and
>social background is different.
>
>My own home campaign is one like this. It's 
>not based on the Imperium or anything it the
>history or future of the Imperium.
>
>Friends of mine have used the Traveller system to
>referee horror and near-future scenarios.

Once in the distant past some friends of mine used MT to play a game set
during the Irish colonisation/invasion of Scotland in the dark ages.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:12:10 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: Bad news for those that don't know:[Fwd: Would you rather...?])

Tal Meta wrote:
> 
> Alright already. Will the list monitor for TML please step up and boot
> this poltroon?
> 
> Emery Dennis wrote:
> > An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
> > <emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the


I think some idiot's spam filter went nuts.  I hope he takes it offline
soon, or that the Traveller list drops him.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:00:20 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)

He knew.  Something anyway.  I contacted Netcom this morning, and soon after his message changed to include the part about mailing lists.

douglas

- ----------
From: 	Zane H. Healy[SMTP:healyzh@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: 	Monday, March 16, 1998 10:24 PM
To: 	traveller@mpgn.com
Subject: 	Re: Unsolicited Emails (was Re: T Shirts)

>> by someone else. But his damn auto-reply is spamming the list, and *that*
>> qualifies him as a jek, by definition (Spam = jerk)

Yes, and he's been reported for spamming us.

>	NetCom has been known for spam, and is one of the main relays
>	of spam. I think a postmaster has installed a filter and TML
>	is triggering the filter. While its good that they start doing
>	something against their spam problem, the postmaster deserves
>	... ;-)

I doubt it, or myself and a lot of other people on the list wouldn't have
been annoyed by this nonsense.

Personally after looking at the headers and seeing that the messages were
sent using Eudora Pro 3 for Windows, I suspect either the spamming of the
list was on purpose or this idiot has the most ridiculous set of filters in
place ever.

				Zane

| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:09:22 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Rhylanor

I've got a question about the Stellar data for the Spinward Marches.  I was 
running a stopover in Rhylanor Friday (game day) and doing a quickie system 
development when I realized that the Stellar Data for Rhylanor has it as M2 
VI star.  (For those of you who don't have the books and/or can't read 
these at a glance, that's a White Dwarf with no habitable zone).

This strikes me as a bit odd for a mainworld with an atmosphere code...or 
is the atmosphere supposed to represent the snow on the ground?

My impulse is to alter the information, but I thought I'd put it out for 
comment first.

douglas 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:16:37 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

On 16 Mar 98, Chris Seamans disseminated foul capitalist propaganda 
by writing:

</de-lurk>

[...]
> Now here's what I'd like to see:  a battle between the red-shirted
> lackeys from ST:TOS and the Stormtroopers from Star Wars.
> 
> By law the red shirts must die, but, by law the Stormtroopers can't
> hit the broadside of a barn...  It would be a long, boring, drawn
> out battle ending in a stalemate.

Well, if you think Stormtroopers can't hit the broadside of a barn - 
check out the first fight in Star Wars, on board on Tantive IV. 

I bet many Rebel troopers would disagree with you (were they capable 
of doing it ;)). 

Now, Stormtroopers can't hit a broadside of a Hero, but that's 
entirely another thing. <grin>

</lurk>

Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
  Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+ 
  PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
    A GOOD GIRL IS A GOOD GIRL - BUT A BAD GIRL IS BETTER.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:17:03 -0500
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Regina

> Somewhere one of the books tells us the names of the gas giant which Regina
> orbits, and some of the other worlds in the Regina system. I wonder what those
> names are?
> 
> 
> Marc
> 


From page 55, Book 6 (Scouts)

Primary	Lusor
0	Clement
1	Ausun
2	Burgund
	  Cent
	  Thermidor
3	Olybrius
	  Alise
4	Assiniboia
	  Redes
	  Printemps
	  Brumaire
	  Harcourt
	  Regina

There's also the companion, Darida, which has it's own system, and the
dwarf companion, Speck.



John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:21:31 +0100
From: Anders Lindborg <alg@akribi.se>
Subject: Unusual Traveller campaigns

Has anyone on the list used the Traveller rules
system or portions of it for playing in settings
or campaigns very unlike the standard Traveller
settings? I'm thinking of campaigns that take 
place in a SF environment that works like the
Traveller setting, but where the political and
social background is different.

My own home campaign is one like this. It's 
not based on the Imperium or anything it the
history or future of the Imperium.

Friends of mine have used the Traveller system to
referee horror and near-future scenarios.

/Anders Lindborg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:06:01 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Emery Dennis' Future

Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote:

>Mr. Dennis, meet Mr. Plasma Cannon.
>Mr. Plasma Cannon, meet Mr. Dennis.

Don't worry, it's already sorted out. I've arranged for an asteroid to come
and wipe out the annoying little..... should be here around 2028 ;-)

On a serious note, has anyone contacted Rob on this one or the Happy.mailer
at Kiev?


Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:07:43 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com> wrote:

>I'm an old fart. When did a Plasma gun get turned into a Plasma cannon? :-)

When we got really cross with Mr Dennis...

Seriously? - in Emperor's Arsenal.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:57:40 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Regina

CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com> wrote:

>In a message dated 98-03-15 23:15:53 EST, you write:
>
><<
> Douglas Sinclair <eem2ds@ee.surrey.ac.uk> writes:
> >Just to throw more fuel on the fire, there's a city in Saskatchewan called
> >Regina.
>
> True. Saskatchewan also has a city called Saskatoon (where I grew up),
> which is also a planet in the Solomani Rim. I figured it was named by some
> homesick grasshopper during one of the Interstellar Wars.
>
>  >>
>
>Somewhere one of the books tells us the names of the gas giant which Regina
>orbits, and some of the other worlds in the Regina system. I wonder what those
>names are?

Primary - Lusor
0	Clement
1	Ausun
2	Burgund
3	Cent (Satellites Thermidor, Olybrius, Alise)
4	Assiniboia (Satellites Redes, Printemps, Brumaire, Harcourt, REGINA)

Plus a companion star and associated worlds.

MT Refs manual p21

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:42:29 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Rhylanor

Douglas Glatz wrote:

> I've got a question about the Stellar data for the Spinward Marches.  I was
> running a stopover in Rhylanor Friday (game day) and doing a quickie system
> development when I realized that the Stellar Data for Rhylanor has it as M2
> VI star.  (For those of you who don't have the books and/or can't read
> these at a glance, that's a White Dwarf with no habitable zone).
>

I was under the impression that type VI stars were first generation stars.  All
Hydrogen burning and the whole system was made up of hydrogen, primarilly gas
giants.

More likely, that VI should be a type V.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:38:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@unipress.com>
Subject: Re: Bad news for those that don't know...

And if they are gone, who owns the rights to "Traveller " now? 

Hopefully they won't go the route of 2300AD.       


Matthew

> 
> Okay.  Is there any confirmation on this?  Is IG officially gone, done and
> over with?  Will Phil MacGregor be able to do his victory dance on the
> ruins of Imperium Games?
> 
> semo@pil.net
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:44:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@unipress.com>
Subject: Unusual Traveller campaigns

I set my classic traveller campaign in the Andromeda Galaxy. The setting
was that a wormhole was found that would allow ships to travel to the 
Andromeda Galaxy (this was before DS9). A small colony, of about 3 subsectors
formed the Domain of Andromeda. Initally all was well, until the wormhole
closed leaving the colonists in the Andromeda Galaxy. The campaign starts
about 100 years after this event. Unfortunately, many of their neighbors
are about TL 16+ ...


Matthew

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:37:12 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: QSDS Help Needed

I'm nearly finished coding QSDS, but I've noticed a few things that seem
to be missing from version 1.5e (the version I'm using). Any help
appreciated.

1) I can find no mention of stealth/cloaking in the QSDS rules. I'm
assuming that you must use FFS2 for that, and that they are included in
the description beside sensors for completeness. Am I correct?

2) These seems to be no place in the Universal Ship Descrption for shops,
labs, etc. Should they go in tthe notes section, or be listed under hanger
and launch facilities?

3) Having ships troops/marines seems to increase your command crew
requirements. This seems silly to me. Wouldn't marines have their own
officers? On the other hand, would naval security troops be commanded by
line officers? Could someone with a bit more naval knowledge please xplain
this to me?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:25:53 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Bad news for those that don't know...[Rumor Squashing]

>And if they are gone, who owns the rights to "Traveller " now?
>
>Hopefully they won't go the route of 2300AD.
>
>
>Matthew
>
>>
>> Okay.  Is there any confirmation on this?  Is IG officially gone, done and
>> over with?  Will Phil MacGregor be able to do his victory dance on the
>> ruins of Imperium Games?
>>
>> semo@pil.net

Imperium Games is *not* gone.  Phil will have to hold his dancing.

However, Missions of State, Which is the *22nd title* in the Traveller line
published, will probably not be followed by anything new soon.  In fact,
I'd bet the T4.1 is the next item to be published and that not until the
Fall (GenCon maybe?).

It's time for Imperium Games to "hibernate" for awhile.  They have
considerable debts (including author's fees not yet paid) outstanding, and
paying staff to produce and/or administrate in more than a minimal way is
just not possible.  Traveller is not a fast-moving product, and taking some
time will allow revenue to flow in the door.  Fortunately, since the staff
of IG as we know it is actually Sweatpea staff 'on loan' they can get away
with just a few hours a week of payroll whereas a 'freestanding' company
could not.

They are still shipping to distributors, distributors are still shipping to
your local game store.  Their web site is still about as stale as it ever
was, but IG is not the only company to have an unmaintained Web Site.

Meanwhile, it is important that there are not rumors flying back to game
store owners and, from there, game distributors that IG is closing.  The
gaming industry is somewhat cannibalistic, and if distributors thought that
IG was closing, they might decide they don't have to pay *their* bills to
IG.

Now, I don't speak for IG, but I do own stock in the company.  I think it
is important for the Company, the Authors of those items produced, and for
Marc's sake that we 'ride along' a few more months before panicking.  This
is not Microsoft, and rumors can hurt companies the size of IG.  I'm not
saying "shut up", that would be rude, I'm asking for patience.

Oh, and Marc Miller, who is Far Future Enterprises, retains all the rights
to Traveller and licenses Imperium Games exclusively to produce the
"Authoritative Rules" for Traveller.  He also licenses IG non-exclusively
for other supplements and adventures.  Marc can (and does) license others
for non-authoritative rules (i.e.SJG) and supplements and adventures for
use with Traveller (CORE/BITS, etc.).

"This is Rumor Control, signing off".

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:20:11 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Bad news for those that don't know...

At 09:38 AM 3/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>And if they are gone, who owns the rights to "Traveller " now? 

Marc owns Traveller.  Period.  IG just had a liscense to publish it.
That's why SJG could get permission to do GURPS: Trav.  It's all Marcs.
- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:34:27 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: RE: Military protocol question...

At 08:51 PM 3/17/98 +1200, you wrote:
>At 10:22 PM 16/03/98 -0800, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

>The NZ Army gets most of its traditions from the British rather than
>American military, and tends to view US traditions as inferior, probably in
>revenge for you having all that lovely shiny kit, and vehicle to carry it
>in. 'Light Infantry' has got to be the biggest misnomer of the 20th century.

Ha.

I say again, Ha.

I was sent to Hawaii to be part of the 25th Infantry Division (Light) just
after it had finished the conversation.  My first thought upon looking
around was that we had bravely innovated by recreating a WWI infantry
formation.  No tanks, no artillery beyond mortars, almost no support... Had
that unit fought in Korea (which was the primary reason for our existence),
we would have been slaughtered.

You'll note that of the four "experimental" divisions created in the early
1980s, only the 10th Infantry (Mountain) is still operating as planned, and
they even changed their mission to become a true alpine/cold weather unit.
The other three (7th and 25th ID(L) and the 9th ID (Motorized)) have either
been disbanded or converted to mechanized divisions.

>It used to annoy us was that the Malaysians and Indonesians use the US
>style rank structure and we had to call someone who'd only been in a few
>years 'Sergeant' when Regular Infantry would be lucky to have made full
>Corporal by then here. It was also galling that they got to use the
>Sergeants mess when they visited.

It annoyed us how much power the Corporals in British-style armies had.
Culture clashes can be so much fun, don't you agree?

Ob Trav:  Imagine the problems during the 5FW, when Planetary defense
forces, put on active duty and shipped out, came into contact with other
PDFs, some with wildly different rank structures and procedures.
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
|----------------------------------------|
| "The best tank terrain is that without |
|  anti-tank weapons."                   |
|            -Russian Military Doctrine  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:39:42 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Bad news for those that don't know...

At 09:38 am 3/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>And if they are gone, who owns the rights to "Traveller " now? 

	Same person who owned them before. Marc Miller never sold the rights
to IG, he merely licensed them to produce material using his
trademark.

>Hopefully they won't go the route of 2300AD.       
>
>
>Matthew
>
>> 
>> Okay.  Is there any confirmation on this?  Is IG officially gone, done and
>> over with?  Will Phil MacGregor be able to do his victory dance on the
>> ruins of Imperium Games?
>> 
>> semo@pil.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:25:38 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

At 09:23 pm 3/15/98 -0600, you wrote:
>> Why frightening? Substitute "Class A" starport with Heathrow, JFK,
or
>> Charles de Gaulle. How many people does the average traveller come
>> into contact with, and how many places are those people going? I
>> vaguely recall hearing of a government experiment many years ago,
>> where people getting on the subway in NY at one station were secretly
>> dusted with a fluorescent powder. The idea was to see how quickly and
>> how far a biological agent could be spread from a single point by
>> terrorists. Answer: frighteningly fast to everywhere in NY.
>>
>
>Dave,
>
>You haven't by chance been reading 'Executive Order' by Tom Clancy, have
>you.  It deals, very realistically

	No, I got tired of Clancy. The last book I tried to read was Debt of
Honor, and it's only the second book in my entire life I've put down
and left unfinished. His first two were his best ...

>with just this sort of thing.  I won't give the book away, but be very
>leary of people carrying cans of shaving
>cream to convention halls.
	
	I'm leery of people carrying cans of shaving cream through halls
already, although that's a holdover from my college days.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #286
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Tuesday, March 17 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 287



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[none]
Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Re: Bad news for those that don't know...
Re: Miscellany
Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Re: Bad news for those that don't know...
Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Seeking information on Duale/Mora
Online alien information 
Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)
swords
Re: TNE GL HEAP
Emery Dennis problem fixed (hopefully)
whoops (problem not fixed)
Emery Dennis
Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Re: Bad News and Rumor Squashing
Re: Emery Dennis
Re: Emery Dennis
Megatraveller Errata Available?
Re: Bad News and Rumor Squashing
Re: Bad News and Rumor Squashing
Re: Emery Dennis
Re: Emery Dennis
Re: Emery Dennis

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:45:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: [none]

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:47:21 -0500

>An unsolicited email from an unknown address has been received at
><emdennis@ix.netcom.com> and automatically deleted from the server. Please
>do not send any more messages to this address. If this message is from a
>mailing list, I did not subscribe to this list, so please remove my address
>from your list or contact your list owner or administrator to remove my
>name from your list. All messages from this and all other unknown addresses
>will be automatically deleted from the server after receiving this reply.
>In the future, please authenticate subscription requests.

   Not only is this guy using an autoreply program which should be
**banned** from the Internet (as if such things actually work against
spammers, ha!), but he appears to be arrogant about it.  What a total
moron!!!  Somebody should contact the sysadmin of *his* site and get either
his address shut down or the annoying software deleted.

Perturbed,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:19:23 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Steve Daniels wrote:

> 
> 
> Sethkimmel wrote:
> 
> > I'm an old fart. When did a Plasma gun get turned into a Plasma cannon? :-)
> 
>   When I wrote it.  You don't expect all humaniti to use the exact same
> terminology, do you?  Heck, I'd use the wrong terminology on purpose just to
> piss off Imperium Bureaucrats.
> 
> "Give me some Peacemaker ammo."
> "Peacemaker?  We have no weapon or ammunition by that designation?"

SPPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTT!!!!!!

<coffee spewing _again_>

Dammit WILL YOU GUYS STOP IT!!!!

I'm starting to get a buzz of the layers of caffeine encrusted on my
workstation, and some very strange looks from everyone in the office. I
think they're thinking of measuring me for a strightjacket!!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:30:10 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Bad news for those that don't know...

Matthew wrote:
>Hopefully they won't go the route of 2300AD.

Just out of curiosity who owns the rights to 2300AD at the moment?



Regards PLST
<tag line currently unavailable>
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:35:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Miscellany

> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:26:03 -0800
> From: dberry@hooked.net
> 
> At 07:58 PM 3/16/98 EST, Loren wrote:
> >Doug Berry said:
> ><<Expect a mysterious phone call.  You now qualify for the Templers.
> ><FNORD>
> >
> >My Dad was a Knight Templar. Had a neato sword and a funny hat with a
> >feather on it. 
> 
> And now you work for SJG.  I'm afraid.  Order the corndogs, Solomani!

We're all around you, Douglas.  As an Illustrious Knight (Templar) of the
Order of Kadosch, and Companion of the Holy Graal, Ordo Templi Orientis,
*and* your brother...I advise you to be *very* afraid.  Fnord^2.

> This all begins to make sense.. Craig?  When does the Mayan calender have
> the Fifth Sun ending, and how close is that to the incoming asteroid?

Well, to be precise, while the Mayan and Aztec calendars agree on the end
of the world date, they do so within two separate symbol systems.  The
Fifth Sun is an Aztec-only concept, while the Mayan baktun calendar--

Wait, excuse me, you don't care.  December 22, 2012, give or take three
weeks (owing to uncertainties in the calendar correlation).  And hence 16
years early for our good pal 1997XF11.

The game 'Shadowrun' used this date for the re-emergence of magick into
the 'normal' world.  One of the authors of 'Shadowrun' runs an OTO group
in Washington, DC.  Fnord-o-rama. :)

We now return you to your regularly scheduled mixture of bounced
unsolicited emails and plots to grievously harm emdennis@ix.netcom.com.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:42:42 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

At 10:19 AM 3/17/98 -0700, you wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Steve Daniels wrote:

<spew-indicing item snipped>

>SPPPPPPPPPPTTTTTTT!!!!!!
>
><coffee spewing _again_>
>
>Dammit WILL YOU GUYS STOP IT!!!!
>
>I'm starting to get a buzz of the layers of caffeine encrusted on my
>workstation, and some very strange looks from everyone in the office. I
>think they're thinking of measuring me for a strightjacket!!

Um, Bruce?  Pardon my asking, but have you ever considered *not* drinking
coffee while reading the TML?

The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Keyboards.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:45:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@unipress.com>
Subject: Re: Bad news for those that don't know...

> 
> Matthew wrote:
> >Hopefully they won't go the route of 2300AD.
> 
> Just out of curiosity who owns the rights to 2300AD at the moment?

MPGN, but they don't appear to be doing anything with them. 

This is my concern. I would love to play that game again but noone is putting
anything out. 


> 
> 
> 
> Regards PLST
> <tag line currently unavailable>
> ___________________________________
> To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:50:40 -0700
From: "Christopher E. Webb" <cwebb@ctos.com>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

At 22:39 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Mr. Dennis, meet Mr. Plasma Cannon.
>Mr. Plasma Cannon, meet Mr. Dennis.
                    ^^^^

Shouldn't that be HEAT Mr. Dennis???

Christopher Webb
cwebb @ Ctos.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:25:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph M. Saul" <jmsaul@us.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Seeking information on Duale/Mora

Does anyone out there know if there's any -- ahem -- canonical information
out there about the Duale system in the Spinwar Marches?  (I mean apart from
the UPP.)  Thanks!

Joe Saul
jmsaul@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:50:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@unipress.com>
Subject: Online alien information 

Hi: 

Is there any alien information online? In particular enhancements of the 
old aslan/zhodani/vargr handbooks? 

Matthew

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:15:52 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)

> Not entirely true.  If 50% of the citizens of the Third Imperium are
> members of minor human races, then the majority would not be Vilani, at
> least not racially, and probably not culturally.  Remember, there was a
> Second Imperium and a Long Night between the Ziru Sirka and Cleon's
> Imperium.  In some cases, the Vilani-influenced cultures would branch and
> change, in other cases they'd probably go back to living with their own,
> old, submerged culture.

Yes, but... 50%? Do we really have any idea of what % of the population
is "minor" human races" The "canon" talks about a number of minor races, 
but very few of them are actually detailed beyond being given a name.

It's my opinion that by the time the Terrans rolled onto the scene at
the end of the Empire of the Stars that that the Imperium was probably
at least 50%, if not 75%, genetically Vilani. Now, Vilani who don't
actually live on Vland will have cultural drift like anyone, but I think
that communication lines would have been good enough to give everyone 
an idea of what was and wasn't "proper Vilani". 

> By the time of the Third Imperium, you'd have all kinds of zany cultures
> and situations around, and the homogeny of the Ziru Sirka will all but have
> vanished.

Ok, sure. (What are we talking about again?)

> As Dom said, I believe, the roots of the Western mode of thinking can be
> traced back to the Romans, but nobody in the west lives exactly as the
> Romans did.  Various cultures have branched off and exist and the
> differences in the cultures can be downright amazing.  And that's only on
> one planet!

Sure, but look at how bizzarely similar most modern western cultures 
are to the Romans - The US and Canada both have Senators for example.
My wife, a some-times ESL (English as a Second Language) teacher, is
fond of saying "You can't teach English until you understand Latin".
Things persist longer than you might imagine.

> What this means:  The further out from Vland, the less likely that the
> citizens will act like Vilani.  It doesn't mean that they'll act like
> Solomani, just means that they'll act less and less like Vilani.  Their
> language will possibly have Vilani roots, but, it will probably sound
> considerably different.  Individual worlds will be different, and mostly
> unique.  The cornerstone of Vilani culture, the shugili, will be no longer
> as strongly needed, or the role will change considerably.  Child rearing
> and family situations may be similar, but many worlds will have
> differences, some subtle, and some drastic.

And they'll have lots of similarities, some subtle, some drastic.
(drastic similarity?)

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:30:45 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: swords

I've started listing my former posts on Traveller and swords (and other
melee weapons).
They can be found at:


http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/TRAV/TravSwords.shtml

I figure the list has seen enough of repeated posts lately...
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was 
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway. 
That's our story and we're sticking to it.  
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:21:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: TNE GL HEAP

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:

> Thanks, I am always curious, I have Striker, is yours different from that?

Hi Colin,

Which Striker do you have?  1 = Classic Traveller, 2 = TNE.  I have both. 
A lot of the vehicle design stuff in MT came from Striker 1.  What I was
referring to was the personnel damage table in Striker 1 which, given a
weapon's penetrating rating and a target's armor rating, yielded either a
No Effect, a Light Wound, a Serious Wound, or a Death.  On this chart, any
weapon with pen >= armor can kill, but the amount of maiming is not futher
described.  I believe this system was also used for Azhanti High Lightning
though I don't have that game.

Striker 1 introduced the logarithmic armor scale that was used in
MegaTraveller.  I know that someone has the table in electronic form, but
I haven't seen it in a while.  TNE (including Striker 2) armor and pen
ratings are linear, so a conversion between the two is pretty easy.

Striker 2 also has the FFS errata that improves high energy weapons so
that they are finally more effective than GLs and RLs.  Range is tripled,
and linear penetration is more than doubled.  I applied the errata to the
Striker 1 PGMP and FGMP stats; the results are quite impressive.  I can
post them if you like.


Clark


> At 11:31 16/03/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:
> >
> >> A point of historical curiosirty here.  I was just wondering how, in TNE, a
> >> RAM 4cm heap round which causes a direct hit on a target, does so little
> >> personal damage.  There is a little concussion and burst damage, but such a
> >> device has a penetration rating of 33 (and it could be worse if it had been
> >> made at a higher tech level per FFS),   The round generates enough energy to
> >> blast through that much armour
> >
> >It might not be appropriate to suggest this (since you're asking about
> >TNE), but Striker 1 had a personnel damage system that was scaled entirely
> >by weapon penetration (damage dice were not used).  Let me know if you
> >want more info; it's a very simple system (2 TNE penetration pts = 1 cm of
> >hard steel, used in Striker 1 for armor and pen ratings).  Striker 2 (the
> >TNE version) handles personnel damage in an aggregate fashion, so not much
> >help there.
> >
> >I don't know how to fix the TNE system, sorry.


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:26:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Emery Dennis problem fixed (hopefully)

Hello all,

I politely contacted Mr. Dennis from another email account and he tried to
unsubscribe from the TML.  He sent me a blind Cc of the response so I
might determine what the problem was.  It turns out that he had the 'pg'
in 'mpgn' reversed.  I sent him a mail with the fix, so he should be gone
soon.

He tried.  I'll keep you posted on any more problems.  :)


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:44:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: whoops (problem not fixed)

Here's the latest from Mr. Dennis.  Any ideas?


At 03:35 PM 3/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>--
>
>>>>> unsubscribe traveller
>**** unsubscribe: 'Emery Dennis <emdennis@ix.netcom.com>' is not a member
of list 'traveller'.
>**** contact "traveller-approval@lists.MPGN.COM" if you need help.
>>>>> 
>



- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:49:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Emery Dennis

Hi,

Mr. Dennis has Cc'd all his mail with me to the TML, but I haven't seen
any of it show up on the list. 

I'm not sure what the problem is.  I deleted his mails <forehead smack>,
so I can't check through the headers any better.  I'm about to leave my
office for a couple of hours, then I'll be back.

Any ideas on what to do about this problem?


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:18:31 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

Douglas Berry wrote:

>>I'm starting to get a buzz of the layers of caffeine encrusted on my
>>workstation, and some very strange looks from everyone in the office. I
>>think they're thinking of measuring me for a strightjacket!!
>
>Um, Bruce?  Pardon my asking, but have you ever considered *not* drinking
>coffee while reading the TML?
>
>The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Keyboards.

That's absurd.  Now, what I do, personally speaking, is store my coffee in
titanium blocks in my sinuses.  I can fit nearly an entire liter in there
without leakage, as opposed to a measly 2-3 ccs.  I've got an enormous
capacitor, too.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:27:02 -0500
From: "John Watts" <jwatts@catt.com>
Subject: Re: Bad News and Rumor Squashing

>However, Missions of State, Which is the *22nd title* in the Traveller
line
>published, will probably not be followed by anything new soon.  In fact,
>I'd bet the T4.1 is the next item to be published and that not until the
>Fall (GenCon maybe?).

22nd title?  huh??? You mean in all of Traveller I presume?

and further... did Nobles ever come out?  I've not seen it reviewed here,
nor have I seen it in any local game store ( not that this is unusual ). 
Will it come out?  And isnt Missions of State a little odd without Nobles??
 I was under the understanding that Missions of State was going to build on
Nobles by giving adventures for Nobles.

I'd check the IG website..... but I think we all know what a < expletive
deleted > joke that is.

OTOH, I have noticed that the GT site has already put up two pages of news.
 I suspect they might even keep up their own website.  

John



It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that my thoughts acquire speed.
My hands begin to shake.  The shakes are a warning.
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:14:35 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis

Clark,

I haven't seen any bounced messages from him anymore. Maybe he has already
been unsubscribed? Or did someone use their plasma cannon on his email
filter?

Anyways, I'm glad to have those messages to end... it's enough just to deal
with you guys!  :)

Have fun!
Shawn

- -----Original Message-----
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 12:53 PM
Subject: Emery Dennis


>Hi,
>
>Mr. Dennis has Cc'd all his mail with me to the TML, but I haven't seen
>any of it show up on the list.
>
>I'm not sure what the problem is.  I deleted his mails <forehead smack>,
>so I can't check through the headers any better.  I'm about to leave my
>office for a couple of hours, then I'll be back.
>
>Any ideas on what to do about this problem?
>
>
>Clark
>
>
>--
>"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:28:08 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis

Clark Crawford wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Mr. Dennis has Cc'd all his mail with me to the TML, but I haven't seen
> any of it show up on the list.
>
> I'm not sure what the problem is.  I deleted his mails <forehead smack>,
> so I can't check through the headers any better.  I'm about to leave my
> office for a couple of hours, then I'll be back.
>
> Any ideas on what to do about this problem?
>
> Clark
>
> --
> "Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

 I just pulled a 'who' from the majordomo server for the Traveller list - he's
not on it.  If Mr. Emery is still getting TML mail (besides this one, I am
cc'ing him), then someone is forwarding the list to him either directly or by a
redirected list server (i.e. check the headers of messages).

douglas

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:44:22 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Megatraveller Errata Available?

Anyone have the Megatraveller Errata online?  I know it *must* be out
there, but a cursory trav-www search doesn't turn it up in either the MPGN
archive, Joe Heck's archive or a sundry other places.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:47:32 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Bad News and Rumor Squashing

John said;

>>However, Missions of State, Which is the *22nd title* in the Traveller
>line

>22nd title?  huh??? You mean in all of Traveller I presume?

No, 22nd publication by IG in the last 18 months.  All for T4.  Includes
rule books, supplements, two magazines, and adventures.

I'm not saying they're all worth buying.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:50:40 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Bad News and Rumor Squashing

>22nd title?  huh??? You mean in all of Traveller I presume?
>
>and further... did Nobles ever come out?  I've not seen it reviewed here,
>nor have I seen it in any local game store ( not that this is unusual ).
>Will it come out?  And isnt Missions of State a little odd without Nobles??
> I was under the understanding that Missions of State was going to build on
>Nobles by giving adventures for Nobles.

I have no idea what the state of Nobles is, but I wasn't counting that in
the "22" number.

>OTOH, I have noticed that the GT site has already put up two pages of news.
> I suspect they might even keep up their own website.

The G:T people are doing a much better job of maintining their web site
than IG ever did, and they've been at it only a few weeks now.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:48:34 +0000
From: "Jan Jamison" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis

> > Any ideas on what to do about this problem?
> 
>  I just pulled a 'who' from the majordomo server for the Traveller list - he's
> not on it.  If Mr. Emery is still getting TML mail (besides this one, I am
> cc'ing him), then someone is forwarding the list to him either directly or by a
> redirected list server (i.e. check the headers of messages

I sent an unsubscribe message with his address yesterday. More 
productive than whining about it. It doesn't work automatically, of 
course, but it does forward a message to the list administrator. I 
included a note as to why I was unsubscribing an address other than 
my own.

I don't know if that is why he's no longer on the list, but...

Suz 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:49:49 +0000
From: "Jan Jamison" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis

> > Any ideas on what to do about this problem?
> 
>  I just pulled a 'who' from the majordomo server for the Traveller list - he's
> not on it.  If Mr. Emery is still getting TML mail (besides this one, I am
> cc'ing him), then someone is forwarding the list to him either directly or by a
> redirected list server (i.e. check the headers of messages

I sent an unsubscribe message with his address yesterday. It doesn't 
work automatically, of course, but it does forward a message to the 
list administrator. I included a note as to why I was unsubscribing 
an address other than my own.

I don't know if that is why he's no longer on the list, but...

Suz 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:49:49 +0000
From: "Jan Jamison" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis

> > Any ideas on what to do about this problem?
> 
>  I just pulled a 'who' from the majordomo server for the Traveller list - he's
> not on it.  If Mr. Emery is still getting TML mail (besides this one, I am
> cc'ing him), then someone is forwarding the list to him either directly or by a
> redirected list server (i.e. check the headers of messages

I sent an unsubscribe message with his address yesterday. More 
productive than whining about it. It doesn't work automatically, of 
course, but it does forward a message to the list administrator. I 
included a note as to why I was unsubscribing an address other than 
my own.

I don't know if that is why he's no longer on the list, but...

Suz 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #287
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, March 18 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 288



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

IG
Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)
Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Re: X-boats
Re: Emerty Dennis' Future
Re: Unusual settings & campaigns
Re: Emery Dennis mailstorm
Re: Emerty Dennis' Future
Re: TNE GL HEAP
Re: Emery Dennis
TROOPS
Jump space
Re: Jump space
WANTED:  Traveller's Digest issues
Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)
Re: TROOPS
Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)
Re: QSDS Help Needed
Re: 
Re: Coffee (was  Re: Emery Dennis' Future)
Traveller Figures
A tale of two questions
Re: Megatraveller Errata Available?
Re: TROOPS
re: Online alien information
Fun with Blasters (was: Military protocol question)
Re: Traveller Figures
Re: Galanglic & Pronunciation

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:52:11 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: IG

IG is currently working out a settlement with authors who are owed money.
Including me. Whether they reopen their doors after the 'breathing space'
period seems to depend upon how well the current products sell. Once folks
start spreading rumours that IG has gone, those rumours will quickly become
fact as distributors stop paying up, etc etc. Now, I'm not saying 'shut up'
either, but ask yourself how many of those who were actually owed money by
IG, (some, or even many, of us knew there was something in the wind long
quite some time ago), publicised the matter. And why we didn't.

I suppose what I'm saying is that in order to give Traveller a reasonable
chance of continuing, we should keep our collective mouths clamped tightly
shut and avoid the spread of rumours. Better to continue to support the
game and hope matters improve than to contribute to its demise. All I'm
doing here is putting my mouth where my money already is (I do mean that).

Which do we want? Do we want to be able to point fingers and say 'told you
so!', or do we want the best edition of Traveller yet to continue growing?

Oh, and while you're at it, go buy Missions of State. Parts of it are quite
excellent! 

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:22:37 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)

Ethan Henry wrote:

> > As Dom said, I believe, the roots of the Western mode of thinking can be
> > traced back to the Romans, but nobody in the west lives exactly as the
> > Romans did.  Various cultures have branched off and exist and the
> > differences in the cultures can be downright amazing.  And that's only on
> > one planet!
>
> Sure, but look at how bizzarely similar most modern western cultures
> are to the Romans - The US and Canada both have Senators for example.
> My wife, a some-times ESL (English as a Second Language) teacher, is
> fond of saying "You can't teach English until you understand Latin".
> Things persist longer than you might imagine.

And you can't understand Latin until you've finished a bottle of vino.

But on the subject of persisting,  take a look at greek mythology.  Those stories
and characters, in the broad sense, are 12,000 years old or more.  They were
ancient when the Greece was at its Golden Age, the stories of the Iliad and the
Odyssey were recorded by Homer but much older than that.  A more concrete
example: I can, and have, traced the story of Hamlet from 1600 England to the
Horus/Osiris myth, some 4500 or so years previous (at least recorded, probably
older as oral tradition). And there are still production today.  So we know (at
least I know and you can trust me) that at least one story has lasted 5000+
years.  Even *through* different cultures.  Changing some elements but remaining
the same in essence.  Remember the line in ST: The Undiscovered Country in which
MacBeth was lauded as being so much better in its original Klingon?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:32:47 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

Death to Eneri!
I mean Emery!

Hey . . . wait just a minute!
Emery - Emeri - Eneri.
Emery is Eneri!
Death to Emery!

The plot is revealed!  Like Lucipher, he has many names.
And they all spell "Death."

Mwuah-ha-ha.


Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:06:36 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:53:52 +0100,  anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
>>If you want to be consitent with the Traveller background, you
>>really need to presume that even in jump space, you need a conscious
>>pilot.  Otherwise the space lanes would be full of automatic
>>cargo carriers.

>Conscious Astrogator right?

Its not clear to me that the background mandates which (astrogator vs pilot
vs Engineer)
it needs to be.   Single man ships usually have people with all three.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:12:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Emerty Dennis' Future

> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:42:42 -0800
> From: dberry@hooked.net
> 
> Um, Bruce?  Pardon my asking, but have you ever considered *not* drinking
> coffee while reading the TML?

Wait a second...um...wouldn't that involve (*shudder*) not drinking
coffee, perhaps for upwards of five minutes?! 

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:53:21 -0700
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Unusual settings & campaigns

>Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:01:09 +0100
>From: Anders Lindborg <alg@akribi.se>
>Subject: Unusual settings & campaigns
>
>Has anyone on the list used the Traveller rules
>system or portions of it for playing in settings
>or campaigns very unlike the standard Traveller
>settings? 

When Chaosium put out their boxed Thieves' World campaign setting, they
included CT among the systems supported, with example NPC's.  So, my
players and I decided, what the heck?  Straight fantasy played with CT
rules - SMG's versus spells.  Turned out more even than they would have liked.

That world made a repeat performance later on.  The players wanted to
return - in their Serpent-class scout ship.  They were somewhat dismayed
when they were confronted on the ground by "themsleves".  Their characters
from a previous Chivalry and Sorcery campaign (suitably converted to
Traveller) had come out to deal with the new 'dragon' in the neighborhood.

Those of you familiar with C&S will appreciate why the planet was called
"Arden" (UPP X869577-2 R Ni).  It replaced another world of the same name
in the Spinward Marches (Vilis 0201).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:15:42 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis mailstorm

It occurs to me that the bounce messages from this Emery Dennis guy were,
of course, sent in turn back to him via the list. Fortunately, they had his
own address in the "From:" field, and thus, apparently, were not themselves
bounced by his filter.

Now just imagine the mess we'd have been in if somebody had subscribed him
to the TML *Digest*. Each Digest comes with the MPGN address in the "From"
field.

In the words of Tigger, "Bouncy bouncy bouncy fun fun fun fun fun..."

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:11:35 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Emerty Dennis' Future

- -----Original Message-----
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: Emerty Dennis' Future


>
>Wait a second...um...wouldn't that involve (*shudder*) not drinking
>coffee, perhaps for upwards of five minutes?!
>

FIVE MINUTES!!! FIVE MINUTES!!! JUST WHAT KIND OF BARBARIANS ARE YOU PEOPLE!
How can anyone professing to be civilized threaten to torture that man in
such a foul manner! You all deserve to have a rock dropped on you... unh...
well.... JUST WAIT! IT'll HAPPEN!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:08:54 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: TNE GL HEAP

>Which Striker do you have?  1 = Classic Traveller, 2 = TNE.  I have both. 

I have striker 1, I also have the various ammendments to FF&S, partly thanks
to kind people here on the list.  I also got those posted conversions
between all the different armour systems, which has been very useful  I
woould like to see those striker converted stats though, please send them on

thanks
Colin

>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:06:30 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis

>Hi,
>
>Mr. Dennis has Cc'd all his mail with me to the TML, but I haven't seen
>any of it show up on the list.
>
>I'm not sure what the problem is.  I deleted his mails <forehead smack>,
>so I can't check through the headers any better.  I'm about to leave my
>office for a couple of hours, then I'll be back.
>
>Any ideas on what to do about this problem?
>

Maybe the list is now bouncing everything originating from Netcom.  I
wonder if this will get through, the one I sent last night bounced :^(

I reported "Mr. Dennis" to abuse@netcom.com last night, and recieved the
rather mystifying reply today.

- -------------
We have received the message you have forwarded to us, however, we cannot
locate the headers of that message. Without the headers we are unable to
tell exactly where or who the message was sent from. Please forward us
the entire message with full headers and body. I have included below what
sample headers should look like.
- -------------

Somehow I'm not quite sure what to make of that.  One thing I noticed from
looking at the message headers is that this idiot is using Eudora Pro 3.0
for Windows.  Somehow that makes me suspicious that yesterday was
intentional, but then I'm paranoid :^)

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:31:39 +1300
From: Raymond John Gray <raygun@ihug.co.nz>
Subject: TROOPS

Hey Bloo,
where can I get the TROOPS parody from??

regards, raygun

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:34:17 -0500
From: jvhinkel <jvhinkel@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Jump space

I was running a game Saturday and one of the players wanted to kill the
engine while in jump space, drop out into normal space and flee the ship.

What happens when the jump engines are cut in  jump space ?

Does the ship drop out to "Normal Space"?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:41:37 -0500
From: "Daniel Poulin" <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump space

The Starship Operator's Manual tells us (page 11) that after transition (in
jumpspace) nothing the crew can do (short of destroying the ship) will
prevent it from emerging at the point is space specified by the precomputed
jump vector.  

I have always interpreted this as meaning that if the jump bubble is broken
while in jumpspace, the bubble will probably enter the ship, killing the
crew or destroying the ship.  Which basically mean that when a crew is in
jumpspace, they are stuck there.

Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca

- ----------
> From: jvhinkel <jvhinkel@mci2000.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Jump space
> Date: 17 mars 1998 23:34
> 
> I was running a game Saturday and one of the players wanted to kill the
> engine while in jump space, drop out into normal space and flee the ship.
> 
> What happens when the jump engines are cut in  jump space ?
> 
> Does the ship drop out to "Normal Space"?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:06:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph M. Saul" <jmsaul@us.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: WANTED:  Traveller's Digest issues

I've got issues 12, 14, 15, and 17-20.  I'm looking to complete the set.  They
need not be mint; I'm interested in the information, not in collectors' items.
Please let me know if you're willing to sell...  thanks!

Joe Saul
jmsaul@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:21:38 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)

Indented quotes are Ethan's:

> Yes, but... 50%? Do we really have any idea of what % of the population
> is "minor" human races" The "canon" talks about a number of minor races, 
> but very few of them are actually detailed beyond being given a name.

The 50% number is taken from the "Aliens for Traveller:  Draft Material". 
As far as I know, official, unless there is a finished version out there
that corrects this.  So yes, we _do_ really have an idea of the percentage
of the population are minor human races as of the late Third Imperium.

As a note, I'm glad that all the minor human races aren't covered in
detail.  The less detail, the more freedom I have to create without having
to worry about screwing up other things accidentally.

> It's my opinion that by the time the Terrans rolled onto the scene at
> the end of the Empire of the Stars that that the Imperium was probably
> at least 50%, if not 75%, genetically Vilani. Now, Vilani who don't
> actually live on Vland will have cultural drift like anyone, but I think
> that communication lines would have been good enough to give everyone 
> an idea of what was and wasn't "proper Vilani". 

75% genetically Vilani is not supported by any sort of canon I'm familiar
with.  As far as communication lines, they're bad, that's one of the
founding tenants of the Traveller Universe.

> Sure, but look at how bizzarely similar most modern western cultures 
> are to the Romans - The US and Canada both have Senators for example.
> My wife, a some-times ESL (English as a Second Language) teacher, is
> fond of saying "You can't teach English until you understand Latin".
> Things persist longer than you might imagine.

Yes, and the government of the U.S. (not sure about Canada) was formed
during a classical revival, which should be kept in mind as well.  I
acknowledge that the U.S. is influenced by Roman culture.  But, again, we
got it from the British, the French, the Spanish and a little from the
Dutch.  These places were all within a relatively short distance of each
other in the grand scheme of things.  Now, we've got a vast distance
(time-wise) from, say Corridor to the Solomani Rim...  Alot more of a
chance for change.

Basically, what was originally being discussed was the Vilani resistance to
change and it permeating the culture of the Third Imperium.  Basically a
handwave created to justify the slow movements in technology and research
after TL10 or so.

> And they'll have lots of similarities, some subtle, some drastic.
> (drastic similarity?)

I don't doubt this.  But, I'm not sure that the Third Imperium (especially
the late Third Imperium) is as dominantly Vilani as is popularly believed. 
Just something rubs me the wrong way about that.  As I stated before, I'm
not saying it would be dominantly Solomani either, I just think it would be
more or less neither with elements of both cultures thrown in for good
measure.

Especially if you throw the megacorporations in and try to properly deal
with the amount of influence they hold over the Imperium, culturally and
governmentally...

semo@pil.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:54:09 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: TROOPS

Raymond John Gray wrote:

> Hey Bloo,
> where can I get the TROOPS parody from??
>
> regards, raygun

http://www.arctic.org/~danh/troops/

(not well known)

http://www.theforce.net/

lots of mirrors from here (tends to be slow)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:57:59 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)

At 01:21 AM 18/03/98 -0500, semo wrote:
>
>I don't doubt this.  But, I'm not sure that the Third Imperium (especially
>the late Third Imperium) is as dominantly Vilani as is popularly believed. 
>Just something rubs me the wrong way about that.  As I stated before, I'm
>not saying it would be dominantly Solomani either, I just think it would be
>more or less neither with elements of both cultures thrown in for good
>measure.
>
I don't see how it can be. If it was the 3I could never have kept its TL
lead over its neighbours. That its overall TL runs about one higher than
that of other powers is canon, so its attitude towards TL advance must have
been at least as progressive as that of the Solomani Confederation.


- -- Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
   Palmerston North
   New Zealand

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:19:27 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: QSDS Help Needed

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote

> I'm nearly finished coding QSDS, but I've noticed a few things that seem
> to be missing from version 1.5e (the version I'm using). Any help
> appreciated.

> 3) Having ships troops/marines seems to increase your command crew
> requirements. This seems silly to me.

Under Traveller (MT, TNE, and T4) anyone who acts primarily as a
supervisor counts as command crew no matter whom they supervise. 

Thus the Chief Engineer of a ship with several enginners is command
crew, the Chief Medical Officer of a ship with a large Medical staff is
command crew, and the supervising officers (and/or senior NCO's) of your
ships troops count as command crew.

So if you add 24 Imperial Marines to your ship your ships comand crew
will go up by 4 people.  You now have 28 people on the ship wearing
marine uniforms. It is just that 24 count as troops and 4 as command
crew.  If you want to list the ships crew by name, rank & position this
may matter but otherwise it is just a question of "flavor".

> Wouldn't marines have their own
> officers? On the other hand, would naval security troops be commanded by
> line officers? Could someone with a bit more naval knowledge please explain
> this to me?

I have no real naval knowledge, but this is not a naval matter it is a
_Traveller Ships Crew Rule_ question and that I do know.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:34:06 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: 

> I have learned this very well.  I may buy programs and simple peripherals
> elsewhere, but I buy all my major hardware at the same computer store I
> have now dealt with for over fifteen years.  If I needed a LAN, I would
> have them install and test it, and buy a service contract so that if it
> broke down, they would fix it.
> 


I agree 100%, Harold.  Get a rope!  :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:29:26 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Coffee (was  Re: Emery Dennis' Future)

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote

> >>I'm starting to get a buzz of the layers of caffeine encrusted on my
> >>workstation

> >Um, Bruce?  Pardon my asking, but have you ever considered *not* drinking
> >coffee while reading the TML?

> That's absurd.  Now, what I do, personally speaking, is store my coffee in
> titanium blocks in my sinuses.  I can fit nearly an entire liter in there
> without leakage, as opposed to a measly 2-3 ccs.  

You know I had always thought that the people who claimed to spew stuff
on their keyboards were exagerating - at least until I read this.

Store your coffee in titanimun blocks indeed.

> I've got an enormous capacitor, too.  

Thank you for sharing that with us, I have never heard it refered to as
a "capacitor" before, maybe I need to get out more.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:44:39 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Traveller Figures

Yesterday, while going thru some very old things, I found about 50 or so
tiny traveller figures cast in metal.  There are Vargr and armored guys
with FGMP-16s.

Are these worth anything?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:55:36 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: A tale of two questions

Was Nobles published?  My local shop is having difficulty getting
a copy.  They're also having  difficulty  getting  Annililik  Run
(which I've heard is crap but I want it anyway).

Another question:  Thinking about the trials and tribbulations of
T4 and I was wondering ... is there anyone out there who plays T4
who had _not_ played Traveller before?  In  other  words  did  T4
bring in new players or just cater to an established fraternity?

Regards PLST
<tagless in cyberspace>
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:09:26 +1100 (EST)
From: DAVID CALLUM Moodie <dcm06@uow.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller Errata Available?

>Anyone have the Megatraveller Errata online?
Sure.

I've made all the errata changes to my MT books, so I'll write them up and
post them to my webpage soon.... I'll notify the ML when I'm done OK.



Dave 'Washu' Moodie
- -------------------------------------------------
The Many Faces of Washu

NEW IMAGES, NEW LOOK, NEW ADDRESS!
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/kingston/196
CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION.... ^_^;;
- -------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:05:03 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: TROOPS

On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Steve Daniels wrote:

> 
> 
> Raymond John Gray wrote:
> 
> > Hey Bloo,
> > where can I get the TROOPS parody from??
> >
> > regards, raygun
> 
> http://www.arctic.org/~danh/troops/
> 
> (not well known)

Well known enough...it has a 10 user anon ftp limit. It took me hitting it
almost all day yesterday to get it. But, once you're in, it's definitely
worth it...I kept hitting it with Netscape and downloads were running at
50k /sec...pretty damn fast. So I got all 78 megabytes of it...folks don't
even _think_ of trying this at home, unless you have a cable modem or
T1...

BUT...once you get it, it is bust a gut funny!

<Bad boys bad boys whatcha gonna do?>

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:03:58 +0100
From: damberg <damberg@hem.passagen.se>
Subject: re: Online alien information

Roger Myhre has done som excelent work on the vargr, its available at
my webpages:

http://www.geocities.com/~signal-gk/

somewhere under library data

/Goeran

MH> Hi: 

MH> Is there any alien information online? In particular enhancements of the 
MH> old aslan/zhodani/vargr handbooks? 

MH> Matthew

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:09:01 -0500
From: Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net>
Subject: Fun with Blasters (was: Military protocol question)

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:43:20 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Military protocol question...

Bloo gobbled:

>> Now here's what I'd like to see:  a battle between the red-shirted lackeys
>> from ST:TOS and the Stormtroopers from Star Wars.
>>
>> By law the red shirts must die, but, by law the Stormtroopers can't hit the
>> broadside of a barn...  It would be a long, boring, drawn out battle ending
> in a stalemate.

>Semo, you sir are a genius!  Have you seen the TROOPS parody of COPS and
>Stormtroopers?  If you haven't, send me a blank zip disk and I'll fill put all
>80 megs of this beautiful comedy treasure on it for you.  ST:TOS vs.
>Stormtroopers is the next logical step!
>
>I'll help write a script.  This must be done.  If nothing else, the idea must
>be passed on to the TROOPS creators.
>
>Bloo

And here's a required scene:
A Stormtrooper is steadily advancing on the position of of a red-shirt,
firing from the hip.  Each shot misses, of course.  Blaster fire whizzes
by the red-shirt on all sides.  Finally the Stormtrooper gets to
point-blank range... and still he misses.  Finally, the red-shirt can
take no more.  He snatches the blaster away from the Stormtrooper,
points it at his own chest, and fires!  He points to the gaping, smoking
wound in his chest and screams at the Stormtrooper, "See!  That's how
you're supposed to do it!"  Then he topples to the ground.  Notice that
all laws are obeyed: The Stormtrooper misses, but the red-shirt still
dies.  :o)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:08:31 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Figures

Are they 15mm's or 25mm's?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:57:11 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Galanglic & Pronunciation

Robert Eaglestone wrote:

>Kenji (rhymes with "Benji") quoth:

<grrr> <pull ears back> Pointing that out was not called for... <yap> <grrr>

>Thus we have an informal class system based on accent and dialect.
>
>"Howdy y'all!  Boy, this here core sector shore ain't nothin' like the
> Spinnard Marches, let me tell you!"
>
>"Oh wonnerful.  Wee haf more of those dreadfool Tourists from beyond
> the Reeft again."

"Lookit this prahm sayd a kreefer we got usselves here!  Hay-yull, it's fat
azza haug, hainnit?  Gwawn, boah: squee-yul fer may."
      -- from the holovid feature _Vargr Deliverance_

<yap!>

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #288
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Wednesday, March 18 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 289



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Duale/Mora info
Re: A tale of two questions
Re: Megatraveller Errata Available?
Re: Megatraveller Errata Available?
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #288
Re: Jump space
Re: TNE GL HEAP
Re: Solomani Rim Information
re: Jump space
re: : A tale of two questions
IG shipping
Re: Fun with Blasters (was: Military protocol question)
swords
(Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords
Re: Traveller Figures
Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords
Re: Coffee (was  Re: Emery Dennis' Future)
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Feed back request
Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords
Re: Traveller Figures
Lost in time
Re: Traveller Figures
Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords
Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords
Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords
Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords
Re: What's HIWG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:56:28 +0100
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Duale/Mora info

Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:25:51 -0500 (EST) Joseph M. Saul wrote: 

>Does anyone out there know if there's any -- ahem -- canonical information
>out there about the Duale system in the Spinwar Marches?  (I mean apart >from the UPP.)  Thanks!

According to data on Mora subsector in 'The Spinward Marches Campaign' p. 20:

"The Imperial Research Station at Duale (2728 Spinward Marches A5437BF-B) was
damaged by an industrial accident in 1102; refitted and refurbished in 1108, it
now pursues secret research for the Imperial Navy. "

Furthermore, the DIS Newsbriefs in MTJ #3 has an article called 'Still No Word
On Whisper', which is about a Virushi nanobiologist who's disappeared from the
Research Station.

You could have found these references yourself by looking at:

http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann/worlds.htm

[I had to mention it]

Hope this helps.

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
mse@oticon.dk (work)
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:18:57 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: A tale of two questions

At 11:55 AM 3/18/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Was Nobles published?  My local shop is having difficulty getting
>a copy.  They're also having  difficulty  getting  Annililik  Run
>(which I've heard is crap but I want it anyway).

Nobles was not published.

>Another question:  Thinking about the trials and tribbulations of
>T4 and I was wondering ... is there anyone out there who plays T4
>who had _not_ played Traveller before?  In  other  words  did  T4
>bring in new players or just cater to an established fraternity?

I've seen a couple of posts, both here and in rec.games.frp.misc from
people who have started with T4.
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
|----------------------------------------|
| "The best tank terrain is that without |
|  anti-tank weapons."                   |
|            -Russian Military Doctrine  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:35:25 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller Errata Available?

>>Anyone have the Megatraveller Errata online?
>Sure.
>
>I've made all the errata changes to my MT books, so I'll write them up and
>post them to my webpage soon.... I'll notify the ML when I'm done OK.

FYI, I've gotten two copies of the errata (I think they're the same -
Thanks to Shawn Campbell [aka electric-stitch@w-link.net] and Dominick
Reynolds [aka dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com]) and would suggest someone
put them up somewhere (Joe?  The Missouri archive is the first place *I*
looked).

I'll email it to any requestors.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:52:13 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller Errata Available?

>>>Anyone have the Megatraveller Errata online?
>>Sure.
>>
[file under: I knew it had to be out there somewhere.

A few more clues led me to Dave Golden's site for the MT errata.  If anyone
else needs it please surf to;

http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller/Rules.html

For the "latest" (10/1/88) errata available.

Pete


                       Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:57:59 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Douglas E. Berry writes:

>>   Top Ten Spots I'd Like to See the Asteroid Hit If It Were Coming
>>*Tomorrow*
>
>>8)  EuroDisney (once again, I must apologize...)
>
>For what?  I'm [sure] many French would accept the complete devastion of 
>France to be rid of the Halls of the Mouse King.

   The apology was for EuroDisney.  Some things just don't work across
cultures, then again, Disney is increasingly not working in American culture
either.

   This brings to mind Jerry Lewis.  I still don't get the deal with Jerry
Lewis and his absolute popularity in France.  Hell, *Jewis Lewis* doesn't
get the deal with Jerry Lewis and his absolute popularity in France.

>>7)  New York City (setting up that classic Charlton Heston scene in "Planet
>>of the Apes" with the Statue of Liberty)
>
>Considering the mass and velocity of that rock, the scene would be Heston
>finding a fine layer of copper evenly distrubted around the globe.

   Making the movie, "Panning for Miss Liberty".  A Tristar Pictures release
no doubt.

>>6)  Anywhere within 5 ft. of Bill Clinton, preferably while he is "training"
>>a new intern.
>
>Only if Ken Starr is there taking notes.  There's an idea!  Have Starr call
>the asteroid to testify!  It won't come near us.

   Say what you will about the former French president, Metterand (I
probably destroyed the spelling, sorry) but he stuck with one mistress, and
kept it discrete (that would be a French word, no?).  Clinton is well
educated trailer park trash in comparison (probably all he ever was anyway
<sigh>).

>>4)  Dennis Rodman's house (he would turn it into a fashion statement)
>
>Dennis would make the rebound.

   Who would throw it to Scottie who would toss it to Michael for a tomahawk
slam on the Moon with three tenths of a second left on the clock.

   It's a Chicago Bulls thing....

Regards,

Harold (OK, I'm digressing...)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:28:06 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #288

> From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
> Subject: Re: Unusual settings & campaigns

<<<<When Chaosium put out their boxed Thieves' World campaign setting,
they included CT among the systems supported, with example NPC's.  So,
my players and I decided, what the heck?  Straight fantasy played with
CT rules - SMG's versus spells.  Turned out more even than they would
have liked.>>>>

We played AD&D.  Then Traveller came along.  We put our magic using
world in the Spinward Marches someplace (Can't remember where exactly)
and made it a Red Zone.  Seems the Imps couldn't figure out how magic
worked and didn't want to have it spread across the Imperium.  Made for
some interesting adventuring, and put it in a much bigger context.  

Nothing like manning an interdiction satellite watching a world spin
down below...even if the world was in the shape of a cube....

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:56:54 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Jump space

> From: jvhinkel <jvhinkel@MCI2000.com>
 
> I was running a game Saturday and one of the players wanted to kill the
> engine while in jump space, drop out into normal space and flee the ship.
> What happens when the jump engines are cut in  jump space ?
> Does the ship drop out to "Normal Space"?

No -- the ship is in a bubble of normal space within jump space.  The
jump drives keep the bubble in place, so that the ship doesn't
experience jump space.  If the jump drives stop running, the bubble
pops, and the ship is exposed to jump space.  Canon has it that exposure
to jump space makes humans insane and then kills them.  In my universe,
jump space's different laws of physics cause unpredictable changes at
the atomic level.  

Anyway, even if you did precipitate out into normal space, you would be
in the middle of deep space somewhere -- fleeing the ship in a non-jump
capable vessel would lead to death by starvation. 

> ------------------------------

> From: "Daniel Poulin" <pould@netcom.ca>
 
> The Starship Operator's Manual tells us (page 11) that after transition (in
> jumpspace) nothing the crew can do (short of destroying the ship) will
> prevent it from emerging at the point is space specified by the precomputed
> jump vector.  

Likewise, even if the ship loses its jump bubble, it will keep its
vector in jump space. That's why the ship is said to "tumble" into jump
space -- once it's in, it's just falling on that vector and you can't do
anything about it.

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:46:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: TNE GL HEAP

On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Colin Hutchinson wrote:

> 
> >Which Striker do you have?  1 = Classic Traveller, 2 = TNE.  I have both. 
> 
> I have striker 1, I also have the various ammendments to FF&S, partly thanks
> to kind people here on the list.  I also got those posted conversions
> between all the different armour systems, which has been very useful  I
> woould like to see those striker converted stats though, please send them on

I will send it along shortly.  I was just typing up the mail when I
realized that I had gotten the ranges all wrong.  I'll fix them up and
post the correct stats in a day or so.


Thanks,
Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:42:19 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

Shawn Campbell wrote:

>I am looking for info on the Solomani Rim.
>
>I am working on putting together a campaign set in the Sol Rim, but I don't
>have a lot of information. Basically, all I have is from the MT boxed set,
>Rebellion Sourcebook and Rats and Cats. Thanks to Jim V and Galactic, I have
>maps to the Sol Rim. Has anyone done write-ups for any of the worlds? I
>can't find much information on the Vegan's.

   There were some classic Traveller adventures set in the Solomani Rim
(Nomads of Ocean World, Signal GK, etc.) which should helpful.  A lot
depends upon what era you want to run your campaign in. From your post, you
seem to be aiming for c.1116.  In that case you need to get AM6: Solomani.
It contains a sector map and notes on each subsector.  Traveller Chronicle
#10 provides updated stellar data (and subsector notes updated for the New
Era setting), though I believe the latest version of Galactic now has that.

   All of the above is probably available through Kevin Knight at Sword of
the Knight Publications (swrdknght@aol.com), though there are other game
dealers on line who could also handle your request (they get mentioned from
time to time on the mailing list).

>I am thinking about making a spy/espionage type campaign. The characters may
>be ISS agents (Imperial Secret Service) (if you've never heard about the
>ISS, then their doing their job well)  :)  The characters may be independent
>agents working for the imperial government. Missions would include
>excursions into Solomani Space.

   Ah yes, nothing like a good Cold War thriller, the bad guys being of
course the KGB...err I mean Solsec.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:45:52 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Jump space

jvhinkel <jvhinkel@MCI2000.com> wrote:

>I was running a game Saturday and one of the players wanted to kill the
>engine while in jump space, drop out into normal space and flee the ship.
>
>What happens when the jump engines are cut in  jump space ?

IMTU - The jump field/bubble collapses and implodes. Contact with J-space
destroys the ship. Utterly. No survivors. A momentary collapse of field can
result in a misjump and potential J-space sickness for passengers and crew.

>Does the ship drop out to "Normal Space"?

If you allow it to you can then have jumps lasting less than the 168 hour
average, and you start to change the nature of jump/Traveller. I would say
no to dropping into N-space.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:50:18 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: : A tale of two questions

trisen@postmaster.co.uk wrote:

>Was Nobles published?  My local shop is having difficulty getting
>a copy.

Not to my knowledge.

>They're also having  difficulty  getting  Annililik  Run
>(which I've heard is crap but I want it anyway).

It is lousy.

>Another question:  Thinking about the trials and tribbulations of
>T4 and I was wondering ... is there anyone out there who plays T4
>who had _not_ played Traveller before?  In  other  words  did  T4
>bring in new players or just cater to an established fraternity?

I have 4 players, new to Traveller, awaiting the T4.1 rules release. The
mess that T4 was put them off buying the initial rules release.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:55:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: IG shipping

Hello,

I got my JTAS cancellation letter and offer of reimbursement and did
nothing with it for 2.5 months.  Then I finally typed them a polite letter
asking for two books and asking them to bill me for the balance.  1.5
weeks after sending the letter I got a phone message from them.  I
returned the call, gave them my credit card number, and one week later I
am holding CSC and NAM in my hands.

Just thought I'd provide a point of contrast.  They do it right sometimes
at least.


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:01:07 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Fun with Blasters (was: Military protocol question)

NO
NO
NO
NO!

  That's not how it goes!  The Stormtroopers advance.  The redshirts fire
in volley while their officers in white periwigs tell them what to do.  The
stormtroopers are decimated and turn tail running while the Officer chases
them away...
  Then the stormtroopers realize what is happening, turn around and start
firing at the officer, of course, missing.  Officer leads them back into a
cleverly laid trap - back into the waiting fire of the redshirts.  Storm
troopers are almost destroyed to the man when the officer tells the
redshirts to cease fire.  Then the officer, remembering prime directive #1
(how many prime directives are there anyhow?) and teaches the last
surviving Stormtrooper how it should have been done.  The redshirts are
turned into two teams and fire upon each other... decimating each other to
the last man.  The Last surviving stormtrooper then says "WOW!!!!" and
joins up as a red shirt on the spot by doffing his stormtrooper's armor,
and donning the red shirt.  Immediately, he shoots himself in the belly
saying "It's sooo much more fun to be a redshirt than a Stormtrooper
marksman!  At least I finally got to hit something... <sigh>"

  There ya go...

           Hal

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:56:49 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: swords

Whoops!  mistake in the URL before.  The correct URL is listed below.

I've started listing my former posts on Traveller and swords (and other
melee weapons).
They can be found at:


http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/SV/TRAV/TravSwords.shtml


- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!
"Umfriend" - Sexual relationship; "this is Chris, my... um... friend."
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:30:59 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords

I have Alien realms, and the Aslan module for trade. If anyone is interested,
let me know,

Seth

PS If anyone wants photocopies of Solomani, Vargyr, and Darrians, let me know.
Marc said it's OK for me to give them away.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:43:07 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Figures

I'd have to say they are 15mms, they are pretty small.  But I have no
way to tell, that I know of.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:15:19 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords

> PS If anyone wants photocopies of Solomani, Vargyr, and Darrians, let me know.
> Marc said it's OK for me to give them away.
> 


OK Seth, ya twisted my arm.  I'll take'em.  :)

Jory Earl
435 ne 4th ave, Apt. #2
Camas, WA 98607-2130

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:18:44 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Coffee (was  Re: Emery Dennis' Future)

On 18 Mar 98, Peter Newman disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by 
writing:

<snip>
> > I've got an enormous capacitor, too.  
> 
> Thank you for sharing that with us, I have never heard it refered to
> as a "capacitor" before, maybe I need to get out more.

ROTFL. 

T|N>K 

(My first one, too. ;>)


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
  Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+ 
  PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
    They don't make cars like they auto. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:18:44 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

On 17 Mar 98, Anders Lindborg disseminated foul capitalist propaganda 
by writing:

> Has anyone on the list used the Traveller rules
> system or portions of it for playing in settings
> or campaigns very unlike the standard Traveller
> settings? I'm thinking of campaigns that take 
> place in a SF environment that works like the
> Traveller setting, but where the political and
> social background is different.

</de-lurk>
Well, I'm preparing to run a CORPS campaign in my own SF world that 
borrows heavily from Traveller (kinda like Traveller meets Shadowrun) 
- - jump drives that have a set jump time (I used the parabolic 
frictionless underground tunnel analogy - and please, Mr. Kenji, 
would you refrain from any comments on that one? ;)), no FTL commo, 
psionics and large warships with no "starfighters" to speak of. 

And Ancients, of course. ;> But IMC Ancients are capable of magic. 


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
  Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+ 
  PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
    Keep Poland green - have sex with a frog. 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:12:01 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Feed back request

Just a quick request. i recently sent several copies of deck plans for the
Boxcar Class Merchant. Would the people that recieved them please send me a
note back concerning any comments or problems tehy found with the package.
Thanks


Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:29:12 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords

>> PS If anyone wants photocopies of Solomani, Vargyr, and Darrians, let me
know.
>> Marc said it's OK for me to give them away.
>>
>
>
>OK Seth, ya twisted my arm.  I'll take'em.  :)
>
>Jory Earl
>435 ne 4th ave, Apt. #2
>Camas, WA 98607-2130
>

Well, If your sending them to Washington, you might as well include me too.

Shawn Campbell
203-221st ST SW
Bothell, WA 98021

Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:09:23 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Figures

At 04:42 PM 3/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I'd have to say they are 15mms, they are pretty small.  But I have no
>way to tell, that I know of.
> 

Measure 'em - if they're in the 1/2 - 2/3 inch range in height, they're
15s...  If they're an inch or more tall, they're 25s...



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:14:11 -0400
From: Gary MacKeigan <gary@directed.edu>
Subject: Lost in time

I'm new to Traveller, as is the group I GM for.  I just have a few
questions for anyone who would wish to answer.

1.  Based on the information in the T4 main rulebook, what year should
I start my campaign in?

2.  Is there some reason why there are worlds only two parsecs away from

the Imperium that have not been contacted in hundreds of years, as
indicated in the back of the main rulebook?  Why?

3.  Does the Imperium encompass more worlds than are indicated in the
back of the rulebook (ie. in the subsectors above Core and to the left)?

If someone would answer these questions for me, or point me in the
direction to find my own answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Gary MacKeigan
gary@directed.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:50:58 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Figures

Is there any writing on manufacturer's logos on the bottom of the bases? That
might give you some clue to who made them.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:52:06 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords

I'll send them as soon as I get my Alien Encyclopedia from Marc.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:00:44 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords

E mail Marc, and if he says if's OK, I'll copy the copy, and send one out.

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:26:17 -0600
From: Trey Shewmake <yert@mad.scientist.com>
Subject: Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords

Sethkimmel wrote:
> 
> I have Alien realms, and the Aslan module for trade. If anyone is interested,
> let me know,
> 
> Seth
> 
> PS If anyone wants photocopies of Solomani, Vargyr, and Darrians, let me know.
> Marc said it's OK for me to give them away.

Ah! I have an extra copy of Book 2 I'd be willing to trade - it's in
pristine condition, the former owner having recieved it in a boxed set
HE NEVER OPENED...(the remaining books becam much needed replacements,
alas - a well-used book shows the years much like a tree - layers of
duct-tape instead of rings...) I desire the Aslan module - I'd also be
willing to throw in perhaps some old JTAS and/or Challenge mags, at your
discretion, of course. Contact me - we'll talk...also, I could use the
Vargr and Sol books, copies would be nice. Thanks for the offer! (And
thanks, Marc, for the opportunity)

Yert

- -- 
Trey B. Shewmake                                  yert@mad.scientist.com
Traveller: The Spinward Marches MUD         crazy.net 9999
                         http://www.crazy.net/~spinward

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:20:04 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords

Dear Sir;

I already have a decent copy of Book 2. What else do you have to trade?

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:06:14 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: What's HIWG

Kagehira wrote:
> 
>         HISTORY OF THE IMPERIUM WORKING GROUP
> 
>         A collection of traveller fans and writers.
> 
Hi Bryan,

Could you tell me if iny of the members in your group would have the
data for the Old Expanses Sector. I have some data that was put out, but
I would like a complete listing if available. The TNE map on page 79 
shows little splotches that are frontier areas. The largest of course is
where RCS is centered, but there is another splotch in sub sec P, one in
Hinterworlds and one in Spica that would seem to show the  possible
route from their space towards the core. I have Hinterworlds original
data. Any leads would be appreciated.

Thanks

Jim

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #289
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 19 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 290



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Unusual settings & campaigns
Re: Traveller Figures
Re: Traveller Figures
Re: Lost in time
Passenger and freight costs
Chirper
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Environmental domes
Re: X-boats
Re: Vilani
Re: Environmental domes
Megatraveller Errata
Product listing for CT
Rule comparisons
Re: X-boats
Pocket Empires
JL
Stormtrooper Rolls
Gravitiational Charge
RE: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Environmental domes
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Rule comparisons
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:01:45 -0500
From: "Bob Sanders" <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: Re: Unusual settings & campaigns

> From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
> Subject: Re: Unusual settings & campaigns

<<<<When Chaosium put out their boxed Thieves' World campaign setting,
they included CT among the systems supported, with example NPC's.  So,
my players and I decided, what the heck?  Straight fantasy played with
CT rules - SMG's versus spells.  Turned out more even than they would
have liked.>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
We played AD&D.  Then Traveller came along.  We put our magic using
world in the Spinward Marches someplace (Can't remember where exactly)
and made it a Red Zone.  Seems the Imps couldn't figure out how magic
worked and didn't want to have it spread across the Imperium.  Made for
some interesting adventuring, and put it in a much bigger context.  

Nothing like manning an interdiction satellite watching a world spin
down below...even if the world was in the shape of a cube....

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

We did much the same as the above...  I made Thieves' World one of the
systems in the Beyond.  The imps sent the travellers in to figure out
this magic stuff.  Used the characters right out of the book (it helped
that most of the players had read the books)  Should have seen the look
on their faces when they found out energy weapons did not work (for some
reason) Lucky that one old foggy still carried a shotgun.  Still, it was
a close thing.. lost some players and a few red shirts.. er.. NPC's.

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:43:03 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Figures

> Measure 'em - if they're in the 1/2 - 2/3 inch range in height, they're
> 15s...  If they're an inch or more tall, they're 25s...
> 
> 
> 

They are DEFINATELY 15mm then.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:45:07 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Figures

> Is there any writing on manufacturer's logos on the bottom of the bases? That
> might give you some clue to who made them.
> 

Nothing on the bottoms, as far as my poor eyesight can tell.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:20:48 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Lost in time

>Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:14:11 -0400
>From: Gary MacKeigan <gary@directed.edu>
>Subject: Lost in time

>I'm new to Traveller, as is the group I GM for.  I just have a few
>questions for anyone who would wish to answer.

Welcome to the wonderful world of (IMHO) the best SF-RPG currently on the
market, and welcome to the TML (abandon hope all who enter here :*>)

>1.  Based on the information in the T4 main rulebook, what year should
>I start my campaign in?

Well it depends on the "style" of game you want. I have two suggestions:
The early years of the Milieu (0-53) cover the initial expansion phase
the emphasis here is exploration and recontact. I'd set a campaign in this
period in 20.
The later years of the Milieu (50-200) cover the consolidation phase. During
this period exploration and recontact are deemphasised (though still
important) and the emphasis shifts to political intrigue and "the great
game". In this era I'd set a campaign in around 98.

>2.  Is there some reason why there are worlds only two parsecs away from
>the Imperium that have not been contacted in hundreds of years, as
>indicated in the back of the main rulebook?  Why?

The map is wrong, ignore it. Okay so that's probably about as useful as
a kick in the posteria. The best options are:
1) Get hold of Milieu O campaign (the hardback version). Not only does it
contain the corrected maps, it has a vast amount of useful information on
the era.
2) Download Galatic 2.3 from Jim Vassilokov's website. This contains the
maps of the Third Imperium in 1100. I think somebodies done a version of
the Core sector in Milieu 0 recently (general appeal to the list). Or
you could regress the 1100 data using Mike Bailey's TRTools.
Jim's site <http://members.aol.com/jimvassila>
Mike's site <http://www.iinet.net.au/~mickb/Traveller/trav_splash.html>

>3.  Does the Imperium encompass more worlds than are indicated in the
>back of the rulebook (ie. in the subsectors above Core and to the left)?

Yes, a lot more. If you can get hold of Milieu O campaign (I can't
emphasis enough to get the Hardback version not the softcover), it
is all explained.

>If someone would answer these questions for me, or point me in the
>direction to find my own answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Checkout the Not-the-Imperiumgames site as a good place to get started
<http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html>

>Gary MacKeigan
>gary@directed.edu

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm

****************************************************************************
"Avec vous votra limpet mine?"
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:54:05 +0000
From: "Andy Slack" <andyslack@unn.unisys.com>
Subject: Passenger and freight costs

<<Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote:
The piracy issue is IMO very very marginal - for a start, piracy will be
about as common in the 3I as it is today.
>>

Not sure how common that is, but I have worked on naval systems for the Far
East whose primary purpose was piracy suppression, so I figure there are
still pirates around. The tack the client government was taking was not to
arm the merchantmen, but to put enough minor warships into the risk area
that pirates would be deterred. Of course that is much easier to do in a
small area of ocean with satnav and comms than it is in deep space...

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:11:52 +0000
From: "Andy Slack" <andyslack@unn.unisys.com>
Subject: Chirper

<<Chris Seamans wrote:
By the time of the Third Imperium, you'd have all kinds of zany cultures
and situations around, and the homogeny of the Ziru Sirka will all but have
vanished.
>>

I think this is why the game background is set up the way it is - to
explain why there are all those fun cultures around for PCs to interact
with...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:51:04 -0700
From: "Legate" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

Myself, I run a CoDominium/Empire of Man style game.

Legate, Militant Jewish Terrorist
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"I am ready man, check it out, I am the ULTIMATE bad ass.
State-of-the-bad-ass-art.  You do not want to f*** with me.
Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of
ultimate bad-asses will protect you. Check it out! Independently
targeting particle beam phalanx...FWAP! Fry half a city with this puppy.
We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs,
we got sonic, electronic, BALL breakers!  We got nukes, we got
knives, sharpsticks..." -Hudson, Aliens (1986)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:00:30 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Environmental domes

I'm doing some work on Junidy/Aramis. The two prime concerns for humans
living on Junidy is that the atmosphere is very thin and that the nights
get really, really cold. So I decided that they made extensive use of big,
self-sealing environmental domes to cover their cities and possibly also
some agricultural areas (Actually, country estates for their nobles). Now,
Junidy is TL 9, not too far in advance of ourown, though a mature TL 9,
which might make quite a difference. Anyway, does anyone know of any rules
to dertemine the maximum practical size of such domes? And perhaps their
cost? Or do any of you have any (semi-)informed opinions about it? I've
also considered making the domes able to let in heat during the day and
retain heat during the night. Does this sound plausible with TL 9
technology?

A few more questions: Would underground cities be more plausible than
environmental domes? There are 14 billion humans living on Junidy. What
would make people settle a world where they can't breathe freely in
preference to neighboring worlds where they can? It can't be the natives,
because historically the humans settled areas empty of natives to begin
with. Some natural resource? Something enabling 28 billion sophonts to
make a comfortable living? Or did the Junidan humans just have a
radically different attitude to birth control than most other space age
humans? Was it the competition with the Llellewyloly that made them
breed like rabbits?

Opinions?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:09:18 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: X-boats

David P. Summers writes?
>Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:53:52 +0100,  anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
>>>If you want to be consitent with the Traveller background, you
>>>really need to presume that even in jump space, you need a conscious
>>>pilot.  Otherwise the space lanes would be full of automatic
>>>cargo carriers.
> 
>>Conscious Astrogator right?
> 
>Its not clear to me that the background mandates which (astrogator vs pilot
>vs Engineer) it needs to be. Single man ships usually have people with all
>three.

Quite right. My own preferred explanation (non-canon warning!) is that in
a few percent of all jumps (something like 1 in 36 ;-) the jump field
develops an unpredictable flutter some time during the journey. Nothing a
competent, or even semi-competent, engineer can't handle, but fatal if it
isn't corrected. Thus automated ships (or jump torpedoes ;-) are lost
about 3% of the time, which makes them far too expensive to use regularily,
but makes it possible to use them in special circumstances (ie. when the
Referee needs it for plot purposes). Btw. I may be misremembering, but I
think the DAGGER (the kamikaze ship in the "A Dagger at Efate" adventure in
one of the early JTASs) was jumping on automatic. If that is true, then
automatic jumps are canon; but the 3% risk I propose will solve the problems
that that would present.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:36:38 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Vilani

Chris Seamans writes:

>Indented quotes are Ethan's:
> 
>>Yes, but... 50%? Do we really have any idea of what % of the population
>>is "minor" human races" The "canon" talks about a number of minor races, 
>>but very few of them are actually detailed beyond being given a name.
> 
>The 50% number is taken from the "Aliens for Traveller:  Draft Material". 
>As far as I know, official, unless there is a finished version out there
>that corrects this.  So yes, we _do_ really have an idea of the percentage
>of the population are minor human races as of the late Third Imperium.

"Vilani & Vargr" had some rules for determining whether a character had
the Vilani gene (or gene complex) for longevity. It was expressed as a
die roll with modifications for the factors that made it more likely
that someone had the gene: Proximity to Vland, a Vilani name for the
planet, and various other factors all contributed (but even someone born
on Vland wasn't 100% sure of having it. If we assume that having the
longevity gene and being of Vilani racial stock has a very high correlation
and that the die roll accurately reflect the distribution of racial Vilani
(not necessarily valid assumptions, especially the last one), we could work
out some pretty accurate distribution figures. I'd do it myself, but I have
a lot of other projects that interest me more, but the idea is hereby
presented to anyone who cares.
 
>>It's my opinion that by the time the Terrans rolled onto the scene at
>>the end of the Empire of the Stars that that the Imperium was probably
>>at least 50%, if not 75%, genetically Vilani. Now, Vilani who don't
>>actually live on Vland will have cultural drift like anyone, but I think
>>that communication lines would have been good enough to give everyone 
>>an idea of what was and wasn't "proper Vilani". 
> 
>75% genetically Vilani is not supported by any sort of canon I'm familiar
>with.

My suggestion for Vilani population distribution when the Terrans arrived
on the scene is this: One planet with billions of Vilani (Vland); thousands
of Vilani colony planets with populations deliberately held to level 7 and
8 (enough for a well-functioning high-tech society without crowding). Most
of these would be genetically and all would be culturally Vilani. And
about 20 minor human homeworlds with high populations, at least level 8,
some of them (but not many) level 9 (Plus a lot of minor non-human
homeworlds, of course). These would be either culturally integrated or
rigorously oppressed.

>Basically, what was originally being discussed was the Vilani resistance to
>change and it permeating the culture of the Third Imperium.

In that case the whole question about genetical Vilani distribution is moot,
because there is no reason to suppose that genetical and cultural vilaniness
is more than remotely correlated.

>Basically a handwave created to justify the slow movements in technology
>and research after TL10 or so.

Frankly, I think that explanation is inadequate, because it dosen't explain
why the Solomani, Zhodani and all the rest didn't advance any faster. IMO
either technologically advancement (by research and discovery) is normally
very difficult and the two examples of quick advancement we know of (Terra
from TL 4-8 and Darrian from TL 12-16 (their advancement from TL 3 to 12
was technological uplifiting/bootstrapping, not discovery) are freak
occurrences, or there is some sort of "wall" to technological discoveries
that kicks in around TL 9 or 10 and then only the Darrian advancement is
a freak occurrence. 
 
>I don't doubt this.  But, I'm not sure that the Third Imperium (especially
>the late Third Imperium) is as dominantly Vilani as is popularly believed. 
>Just something rubs me the wrong way about that.  As I stated before, I'm
>not saying it would be dominantly Solomani either, I just think it would be
>more or less neither with elements of both cultures thrown in for good
>measure.

Well, the interstellar culture of the starfaring part of the Imperium is
very close to 20th Century Western (by pure accident, of course ;-), but
that dosen't mean that many... most... planetary cultures can't be
different.
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 06:57:57 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Environmental domes

On domed cities:

When you are doming cities because of a low presssure atmosphere, you
have to keep in mind one very important thing:  air pressure is acting
to push the dome up.  If you have one atmosphere inside the dome (14.7
lbs/sq. inch), the dome is being lifted with a force of 29.5 million
tons for every square mile covered.  The edges of the dome will have
to be buried deep enough so that the weight of the earth or rock or
dirt is enough to counter this.  Note that this pressure is acting
over the area covered, not the area of the dome (only the vertical
component counts).  An alternative design is a partially buried sphere.
If you build a huge geodesic sphere (or even just 2/3 of a sphere) and
bury it, then you eliminate (or reduce this problem.  You might have
surface cities of clusters of spheres connected by tubes.

My guess is that a high-population world with a thin atmosphere would
be mostly underground tunnels and caverns with domes and/or spheres
for getting a dose of "outdoors", though with holotechnology, that
wouldn't be necessary.  If the TL is sufficient (or even if it's not,
importing would make this possible) some wealthy nobles might live
in floating spheres.

Bolie IV

On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> I'm doing some work on Junidy/Aramis. The two prime concerns for humans
> living on Junidy is that the atmosphere is very thin and that the nights
> get really, really cold. So I decided that they made extensive use of big,
> self-sealing environmental domes to cover their cities and possibly also
> some agricultural areas (Actually, country estates for their nobles). Now,
> Junidy is TL 9, not too far in advance of ourown, though a mature TL 9,
> which might make quite a difference. Anyway, does anyone know of any rules
> to dertemine the maximum practical size of such domes? And perhaps their
> cost? Or do any of you have any (semi-)informed opinions about it? I've
> also considered making the domes able to let in heat during the day and
> retain heat during the night. Does this sound plausible with TL 9
> technology?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:25:58 -0500
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@cybernex.net>
Subject: Megatraveller Errata

Hi Peter:

I would like a copy of the MT Errata.

Matthew Harelick
matth@cybernex.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:28:02 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Product listing for CT

Hi!

Is there a complete product listing for CT anywhere on the net?

Mikko Parviainen
- -- 
This message transmitted on 100% recycled photons.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:37:34 -0500
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Rule comparisons

Hi:

Has anyone compared the rule systems from Classic, Megatraveller, and T4
(Sorry never owned TNE)?

It seemed to me that Megatraveller was simply a complete compilation of
Classic with the addition of
the Task system. How is T4 different from Megatraveller in terms of
rules? How is T4 different from
Classic?

Matthew

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:45:30 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> David P. Summers writes?
> >Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:53:52 +0100,  anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
> >>>If you want to be consitent with the Traveller background, you
> >>>really need to presume that even in jump space, you need a conscious
> >>>pilot.  Otherwise the space lanes would be full of automatic
> >>>cargo carriers.
> >
> >>Conscious Astrogator right?
> >
> >Its not clear to me that the background mandates which (astrogator vs pilot
> >vs Engineer) it needs to be. Single man ships usually have people with all
> >three.
>
> Quite right. My own preferred explanation (non-canon warning!) is that in
> a few percent of all jumps (something like 1 in 36 ;-) the jump field
> develops an unpredictable flutter some time during the journey. Nothing a
> competent, or even semi-competent, engineer can't handle, but fatal if it
> isn't corrected. Thus automated ships (or jump torpedoes ;-) are lost
> about 3% of the time, which makes them far too expensive to use regularily,
> but makes it possible to use them in special circumstances (ie. when the
> Referee needs it for plot purposes). Btw. I may be misremembering, but I
> think the DAGGER (the kamikaze ship in the "A Dagger at Efate" adventure in
> one of the early JTASs) was jumping on automatic. If that is true, then
> automatic jumps are canon; but the 3% risk I propose will solve the problems
> that that would present.

Why couldn't an onboard computer resolve said "Flutter"?

I've been reviewing the other thread about losing your jump bubble... It sure
SEEMS like the whole jump is front loaded and you have quite literally NOTHING to
do in jump space.

What I will concede is that jumping into unexplored areas MAY have gravitic
anomolies that must be resolved.  But the XBoat system jumps the same route
continuously.  It would be very well charted.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:47:19 -0500
From: Chris Jones <Cjones@manhattanassociates.com>
Subject: Pocket Empires

   Hi, I'd like to know who, if anyone, has tried running a Pocket
Empires campaign.  I'm considering trying it myself and would like to
talk to some others about it.  I would appreciate knowing what to do,
what to avoid, what's fun and what's not.  Your response either on the
list or in private mail would be very helpful.

   Chris Jones
   Manhattan Associates, LLC
   770-955-5533 ~1477

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:15:37 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: JL

Harold said:

>This brings to mind Jerry Lewis.  I still don't get the deal with Jerry
>Lewis and his absolute popularity in France.  Hell, *Jewis Lewis* doesn't
>get the deal with Jerry Lewis and his absolute popularity in France.

That's because it's _Sherry_ Lewis that the French think is a comedic genius.
A common misunderstanding, which has cost millions of lives over the years.
Ah, well...say "La Vee."

Loren Wiseman 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:39:26 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Stormtrooper Rolls

     There was a time when the Traveller characters in my campaign ended up
playing Star Wars. Yes, the characters, not the players. There was this big
virtual reality arcade which annually would conjoin the four best selling
VR games from different genres into one simulation. The year they were
there there was
     Genre: Modern, Game: Bughunt on Ryleh (Aliens meets Cthulhu)
     Genre: Vaudville, Game: Pirates of Parlance (Gilbert and Sullivan)
     Genre: Fantasy, Game: Riders of the Pike (Dragonlance)
     Genre: Historical, Rebels against the Empire (Star Wars, hey, as a
romanticised vision of the Rule of Man it was historical for them!)
     Anyway, they started off in the Star Wars section of the game, having
to infiltrate an Imperial Base and blow it up (like the 3rd film). Of
course there were millions of troops. I needed a way to simulate the film
where a small group of super characters can take out whole batallions of
baddies. So I inventedt he Stormtrooper Roll.
     Anytime they came across one or more baddies and did something
unexpected ("This has nothing to do with the B3 bomber!"), marginally
plausable ("There are rebels attacking the gate!"), or confusing (intoning
mystically "You can let us through.") I gave the baddies a stormtrooper
roll. I rolled a d6 and if it came up 1 or 2 the stormtroopers would stand
there confused for a round.
     This worked tremendously well as it allowed the players to concoct
very tenuous schemes and floor loads of baddies. Of course once they were
out of Virtual Reality they had to readjust. They almost tried a similar
hokey trick on some _Imperial_ strormtroopers, but thought better of it
:-).

     Jo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:42:38 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Gravitiational Charge

Yo Folks,
     Did anyone else see an article in a recent New Scientist about a
hypothesized new form of gravity? Like you have the strong nuclear force
and the week nuclear force, they were also postulating a new gravitational
force working at sub-nuclear levels to help them on their way toward a
unified field theory.
     The interesting bit was that it implied that particles could have a
gravitiational "charge". Positive or negative. Of course I immediately
wondered if this could form the basis of a quasi-explainable justification
for grav plates and such in Traveller. Of course they are talking about
sub-atomic physics, but who knows what macro levels could be generated.
     Has anyone else found any refernces to this? Other ideas?
          Jo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:12:10 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: Unusual Traveller campaigns

On Wednesday, 18 March 1998 18:19, Leszek Karlik, aka Mike
[SMTP:trrkt@friko.onet.pl] wrote:
> Has anyone on the list used the Traveller rules
> system or portions of it for playing in settings
> or campaigns very unlike the standard Traveller
> settings? I'm thinking of campaigns that take 
> place in a SF environment that works like the
> Traveller setting, but where the political and
> social background is different.

Hmmm.  There was the Babylon5 session I ran at a con about 3 years ago
using the MT rules.  I also used them to run a short Space:1889
campaign.

- -Vanya  (aka Vargr1)                                     UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ----------------------------------- The Future is in Beta
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
 "...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." |   dmoody@bridge.com
- --Not-the-IG Pages - http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:02:01 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Environmental domes

At 01:00 PM 3/19/98 +0100, Hans wrote:

>Was it the competition with the Llellewyloly that made them
>breed like rabbits?

When there is a native species, I always assume that the natives are
counted in the Population number.  Perhaps there are 10 billion welsh
dandelions and four billion humans.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:12:21 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

At 12:18 AM 3/19/98 +0000, you wrote:

>Well, I'm preparing to run a CORPS campaign in my own SF world that 
>borrows heavily from Traveller (kinda like Traveller meets Shadowrun) 
>- jump drives that have a set jump time (I used the parabolic 
>frictionless underground tunnel analogy - and please, Mr. Kenji, 
>would you refrain from any comments on that one? ;)), no FTL commo, 
>psionics and large warships with no "starfighters" to speak of. 

Ah! A fellow CORPSe!  Some day Real Soon Now I'm going to have my
conversion page up for Traveller/CORPS

>And Ancients, of course. ;> But IMC Ancients are capable of magic. 

Clarke's Law.  By definition, a TL 35 piece of equipment will seem to be
magic to even a sophisticated TL 15 Imperial scientist.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "I'm just like anybody else, I want |
|  to be a non-conformist too."       |
|                      -Lenny Bruce   |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:09:14 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Rule comparisons

At 08:37 AM 3/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi:
>
>Has anyone compared the rule systems from Classic, Megatraveller, and T4
>(Sorry never owned TNE)?
>
>It seemed to me that Megatraveller was simply a complete compilation of
>Classic with the addition of the Task system. How is T4 different from 
>Megatraveller in terms of rules? How is T4 different from Classic?

MT was a refinement of CT based on Digest Group's task system.  It took the
ten years of Traveller experience and filtered it into a fairly good third
generation RPG.  Attempts were made to make vehicle/ship design more
consistent, and the CT combat system was reworked massively.  MT remains my
favorite rule set.  This may well change when I see T4.1, since I liked
what I saw in T4, but the horrendous errata and errors put me off a bit.

T4 is an attempt to bring back the feel of CT, a goal I find laudable but
approach cautiously.  The main differences are the task syste using
multiple dice for different difficuties (a subject of great debate here on
the list), and the inclusion of Fire, Fusion & Steel style design paths for
ships, vehicles and weaponry.
- --

+------------------------*------------------------+
|    Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net     |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html     |
+-------------------------------------------------+
| Truth resides in the human heart and one has to |
|  search for it there, and to be guided by the   |
|  truth as one sees it. But no one has the right |
|  to coerce others to act according to his own   |
| view of the truth.            -- Gandhi         |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:18:13 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Harold Hale wrote:

[snip]
>   Say what you will about the former French president, Metterand (I
>probably destroyed the spelling, sorry) but he stuck with one mistress, and
>kept it discrete (that would be a French word, no?).  Clinton is well

Discrete != discreet

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #290
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 19 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 291



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Uniforms
Re: What Grey Thing?
Re: Pronunciation of Regina
Re: Chirper
Re: Stealth Suits
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: Rule comparisons
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Environmental domes
Re: X-boats
Gravitiational Charge
re: Product listing for CT
Re: Environmental domes
re: Product listing for CT
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
re: Stormtrooper Rolls
Re: Traveller Figures
Re: Uniforms
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Rule comparisons
Re: Solomani Rim Information

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:24:44 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Uniforms

I am trying to come up with a costume for a con, and I was wondering if
there were any official designs for Imperial marine officer's dress
uniforms?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:18:37 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: What Grey Thing?

In article <980308.232404.5p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>,
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> Andy ventured:
>>
>>> Icky grey things... sounds like a Puppet Master to me....
>>
>> <FNORD>
>> Tell them something that will assuage their curiosity without revealing the
>> true nature of my mission on this planet.
>> </FNORD>
>>
>> It's a Texas thing. I have to wear it or I lose my retirement benefits. 
>
>I'm told that if you get drunk it'll pass out first. It was a fellow
>name of "Londo" who had the same problem.
>
>> <FNORD>
>> Memo: Ask Control if it is possible that the fnord messages are getting
>> through to the list at large. Some curious questions have been asked 
>> recently.
>> </FNORD>
>
>FNORD is invisible unless one is Illuminated. (Or one has other means
>of bypassing the controls).
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>

- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:   frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |        frankie@paradise.net.nz 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:46:26 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Regina

In article <v01510101b132a61378cd@[209.43.128.9]>,
kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote:
>Phil wrote:
>
>>  Doesn't that sound like "vagina" ?
>
>Oh, jeezus!!!!!  WE CAN'T HAVE THAT, NOW, CAN WE??  GOD FORBID THERE SHOULD
>BE EVEN THE SLIGHTEST FREAKIN' SUGGESTION OF SEX IN THE TRAV UNIVERSE!!!!
>YE GODS!!!!  IT MIGHT WATER DOWN THE GRIPPING DISCUSSIONS OF RAM GRENADES
>AND BLOWING UP PLANETS AND WHETHER TO CALL JACKBOOTED THUGS "SIR" OR
>"MA'AM"!!!!!!  HELL, NO!!!!!

Did anyone mention that the FGMP-15 looks _exactly_ like a thingee ?

- -- 
Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:01:33 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Chirper

In article <3504CF79.5C8C3999@bu.edu>, Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote:
>
>This reminds me vaguely of the different alien types in David Brin's Sundiver
>books.  There are two main division's between species: oxygen breathers and
>hydrogen breathers, and neither understands the other at all.  Hydrogen breathers
>are mysterious and unfathomable to Oxygen breathers and there is very little
>interaction between the two because they aren't interested in the same planets
>(and I think there is a notion that their brains don't work the same way).

The idea for which, Mr. Brin lifted from Larry Niven.

Who lifted it from E.E. Doc Smith

Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:   frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |        frankie@paradise.net.nz 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:11:12 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Stealth Suits

In article <01BD413F.CF9908E0@RANDOMWALK.hartwick.edu>,
"Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu> wrote:
>Charcoal liners. Chem filters. Acoustic dampeners. Chameleon coatings.
>
>About as much fun to role-play as running a typewriter.

We enjoyed it. Especially the missions where the major threat to
the success of the mission was argument between the members of
the team.

But then we enjoyed the planning aspect as well.

>Our group liked to defeat security systems the old-fashioned way.
>The best sensor is, eventually, controlled by a Mk I human with
>a Mk I brain. Whether we're talking the security guard at the
>monitors, the tech whiz who built the system, or the Imperial
>Governor with authority over the installation, at some level there
>is a person involved.
>
>And if you're good enough, and can identify him, this person can be
>overcome. Bribed, conned, cajoled, replaced, whatever. The highest
>tech security system in the world is useless if the owner hands
>you the keys.

No good if the Imperial Governor uses the security system to protect
himself, the tech whiz was professional and didn't design in a
backdoor, and the security guard is three security guards.

Not to mention all such techniques mean _someone_ knows you've
been there.

We always preferred being able to leave and not have the fact
that we were there known until at least after we were halfway
to the next star system, if then. Once we stole a chip,
replaced it with a fake, and they didn't discover the loss
until it was delivered to the customer's site some two weeks
later.

It was a major failure if anyone knew we were even in the area,
We even thought of outlawing projectile weapons during missions
but the troops got a bit antsy at that. Still, we did arrange
punishments for drawing a weapon, and if you had to actually
fire, well, that was your bonus gone, if you you were lucky
enough to still be employed.

- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:   frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |        frankie@paradise.net.nz 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:51:05 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

In article <01bd4f03$17ef5920$607262ce@worldlink.w-link.net>,
"Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net> wrote:
>I am looking for info on the Solomani Rim.

The whole sector was covered in CT Supplement 11 : The Solomai Rim,
there are paragraphs on each subsector therein.

The Vegan's were covered as a featured species in a Journal or similar
publication (perhaps FASA's High PAssage), though I can't track down
the article

>I am thinking about making a spy/espionage type campaign. The characters may
>be ISS agents (Imperial Secret Service) (if you've never heard about the
>ISS, then their doing their job well)  :)  The characters may be independent
>agents working for the imperial government. Missions would include
>excursions into Solomani Space.

There is a lot of similar stuff in FASA's High Passage magazines,
though they mainly deal with Solomai sympathizers in the Old Expanses.


Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:   frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |        frankie@paradise.net.nz 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:28:47 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Rule comparisons

> favorite rule set.  This may well change when I see T4.1, since I liked
> what I saw in T4, but the horrendous errata and errors put me off a bit.

	What is T4.1?  I understand T4, but where doe the .1 come from?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:32:53 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

> Clarke's Law.  By definition, a TL 35 piece of equipment will seem to be
> magic to even a sophisticated TL 15 Imperial scientist.

	Speaking of the ancients, Does anyone have a copy of the Journal that had
the artical Grandfather's Worlds in it?  I think it was 47.  I would like
to buy it, or at least see the artical.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:36:02 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Kenji Schwarz wrote:

> Harold Hale wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >   Say what you will about the former French president, Metterand (I
> >probably destroyed the spelling, sorry) but he stuck with one mistress, and
> >kept it discrete (that would be a French word, no?).  Clinton is well
>
> Discrete != discreet
>

But a discrete mistress is often discreet as she would be separated from the
rest of the president's life.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:48:33 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Environmental domes

Hans Ranke Madsen wrote:
[snip]
>A few more questions: Would underground cities be more plausible than
>environmental domes? There are 14 billion humans living on Junidy. What
>would make people settle a world where they can't breathe freely in
>preference to neighboring worlds where they can? It can't be the natives,
>because historically the humans settled areas empty of natives to begin
>with. Some natural resource? Something enabling 28 billion sophonts to
>make a comfortable living? Or did the Junidan humans just have a
>radically different attitude to birth control than most other space age
>humans? Was it the competition with the Llellewyloly that made them
>breed like rabbits?

No, it's simply the primitive, mindless instincts that lower primates have.
You all breed like rats, and are genetically programmed to do so.

In fact, your comparison to rabbits is exactly on the mark -- as our
scientists are discovering, the hominid species of Terra and Vland were
used as laboratory rabbits, so to speak, by the Great Old One.  Only we
Sayat escaped modification, thanks to liberal use of sharp pointy objects
and projectiles.

I hope this email has not turned you into a hamster.  Gene therapy by email
is a tricky business.

Sincerely,

Tunngardaya
#15 Xenopolitical Investigative Task Force, Sylea

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:07:53 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: X-boats

>Quite right. My own preferred explanation (non-canon warning!) is that in
>a few percent of all jumps (something like 1 in 36 ;-) the jump field
>develops an unpredictable flutter some time during the journey. Nothing a
>competent, or even semi-competent, engineer can't handle

Pretty good handwave there except that it doesn't explain why a competent,
or even semi-competent Engineer bot cannot handle it. Is it psionic in
nature or what?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:15:50 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Gravitiational Charge

Jo Grant writs:
>     Did anyone else see an article in a recent New Scientist about a
>hypothesized new form of gravity? Like you have the strong nuclear force
>and the week nuclear force, they were also postulating a new gravitational
>force working at sub-nuclear levels to help them on their way toward a
>unified field theory.

    I'll have to hunt this down.  In the latest copy of Wired magazine,
there is an article on gravity negation/reduction.  Spin a superconductor,
and the force of gravity is reduced over it.  Tests are few, non-widely
recongnized, and the variation in gravity seen is very small.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:26:16 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: re: Product listing for CT

Terve Mikko!

"Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi> wrote:

>Is there a complete product listing for CT anywhere on the net?

There are a couple of listings about that I can dig up for you if you're
desparate.  Some are not complete and some include material that was never
published.  None have much info beyond title, publisher etc.


But what you *really* want <grin> is _The Traveller Bibliography_ which not
only lists all the products (and for MegaTraveller and TNE and T4 to the
middle of 97 as well), but gives you brief contents listings *and* comments
on each item as well.  If you're a collector it should give you an idea of
what it might be worth paying for something and what you want to make a
priority.  If you're 'just' a Traveller fan, it contains loads of useful
information and has a really natty cover.

(Of course, I am biased Mikko, I wrote the wretched thing!)


However, it is 108 pages of jam-packed facts and fun and available from
Andy Lilly of BITS fame for a measly 8 pounds 50 and postage I believe.
Try him on a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk

<endless shameless plug>

tc

PS
I should add that it *doesn't* include miniatures.  If anyone has the
knowledge to 'do' these, I'd love to hear from them.  I can provide
guidance on layout and such.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:55:18 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Environmental domes

Hans asks:
>Opinions?
Always a dangerous question...

>So I decided that they made extensive use of big,
>self-sealing environmental domes to cover their cities and possibly also
>some agricultural areas
I am reminded of fields I've seen in Ireland and England where the rows of
crops were all under these long cylinders of plastic. Sort of extended
greenhouses. You might go for this image.

>Or do any of you have any (semi-)informed opinions about it?
Have you read "Red Mars"? I've only read the intro but there were Martian
cities with domes that seem like what you are looking for. From what I've
heard the books were well received and appeared to be well researched so
you might give them a go.

>I've also considered making the domes able to let in heat during the day
and
>retain heat during the night. Does this sound plausible with TL 9
>technology?
Absolutely. We do this with greehouses already. You just need
double-glazing. A higher tech-materials science should make it even easier.

>Would underground cities be more plausible than
>environmental domes?
Building underground is more expensive than building above ground. So it
depends on how you view their government. In the above ground scenario, the
government is responsible for building this huge dome and then taxing its
inhabitants for the cost of maintaining it. Businesses just have to build
normal accomidations beneath it.
In the underground scenario each builder has to pay a high cost to carve
out their building and add the atmospherics. But this is much more
incremental in development.
One thing you might consider, a modern office building is pretty air-tight
anyway, with specific vents for circulating air. Advance a tech-level and
the whole thing can be fairly sealed with compressors on the air intakes.
In fact, small leaks won't be a problem, as the internal air-pressure will
just push the air out. You don't _need_ domes, but they are a romantic
concept. In this model you might have the "street level" underground. Ie.
to walk between buildings you walk along the roads which are all
underground. Or else the "bottom floor" of each building is, by government
requirement, a "public accessway" and they must connect up with
neighbouring buildings for access.

>What would make people settle a world where they can't breathe freely
Like Los Angeles? :-)

>Something enabling 28 billion sophonts to
>make a comfortable living?
People generate their own reason for existing. In generally I assumed that
Space Trade is only a minor factor and that most worlds can be considered
closed trading communities. It is like, what enables 5 billion sophonts to
make a comfortable living on Earth? We are our own market. You don't need
some overriding import/export commodity to drive your economy.

>Or did the Junidan humans just have a
>radically different attitude to birth control than most other space age
>humans?
You don't need that high a birth rate to achieve that size. Say 1 million
people settled there. If they doubled their population every 50 years
that's only 800 years to get to 28 billion. Large populations tend to
snowball, anyway. They are such a big market that it is generally more cost
effective for companies to set up there, as the market is already there.
The market grows, more come, the more people the more economy and revenue
generated through taxes. High populations will make sense to most
governments.

It the PE analysis I did of the Imperium, Junidy was in the top 12 worlds
in the Imperium. It really is that big. I'd have to run the numbers again
but I reckon it is 10-15% of the market in the Spinward Marches (adjusted
for exchange rate). Try running the TCS formula on it to see their revenue.
With that as a local tax base, you can have great monumental public works,
like your domed city. Don't limit yourself too much to tech-9 for
governmental works. they can afford to import a lot.

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:40:06 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Product listing for CT

"Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi> wrote:

>Is there a complete product listing for CT anywhere on the net?

Try http://members.aol.com/farfuture/Traveller.html which is pretty much
complete.

The only exhaustive reference for Traveller that I know is Tim Collinson's
"A Traveller Bibliography" published by BITS/CORE.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:52:38 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote:

>Harold Hale wrote:
>
>[snip]
>>   Say what you will about the former French president, Metterand (I
>>probably destroyed the spelling, sorry) but he stuck with one mistress, and
>>kept it discrete (that would be a French word, no?).  Clinton is well
>
>Discrete != discreet

Mitterand.

And 'discrete' is *English* not American.... ;-)

eg
color - colour
Trash - wastebasket (these two are the changes to turn the MacOS from the
US to the UK release. That's why it takes 3 months ;-) )
Traveler - Traveller.

Interesting question (possibly) for Loren/Marc. Did you ever try for a
trademark in the UK, and if so did you have any problems with 'Traveller'
as it is the normal usage of the word in the UK?

Dom


Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:47:09 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Stormtrooper Rolls

Jo Grant wrote:

>     There was a time when the Traveller characters in my campaign ended up
>playing Star Wars. Yes, the characters, not the players.

One of my friends ran a Star Wars game where the players (rebels) ended up
impounded at Alderbran (Spelling!) just as the sun was eclipsed by a rogue
moon...

They escaped and ended up on the 'moon' in the interogation cells,
following a brief visit by a certain Lord Vader, and escaped after a
firefight happened in the cells around them.

They managed to sneak around the station for a bit, and then escaped on a
shuttle called the Tydderium as the 'moon' entered the Yavin system.

The shuttle was then intercepted and captured by rebel fighters...

Just thought that I'd share that one - worked well because the players put
2 and 2 together.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:33:44 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Figures

J-Man <j-man@iname.com> wrote:

>> Measure 'em - if they're in the 1/2 - 2/3 inch range in height, they're
>> 15s...  If they're an inch or more tall, they're 25s...
>They are DEFINATELY 15mm then.

Are you sure that they're not Vargr puppies?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:51:38 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Uniforms

At 09:24 AM 3/19/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I am trying to come up with a costume for a con, and I was wondering if
>there were any official designs for Imperial marine officer's dress
>uniforms?

Travellers' Digest 14 (or 15, I can never remember) had a bit about the
uniforms of the Terran Occupation Force.  You can use that as a guide if
you wish.

I've done my own design, which I'm going to have made as soon as my tax
refund shows up.

The jacket is based on a Confederate Cavalry officer's coat, which is high
collared and hangs to the mid-thighs.  The buttons are hidden, except for
one at the level of the top of the sternum.  The jacket is black.  Shoulder
loops hold maroon rank boards.  On the collars, maroon patches have a
branch of service insignia (left) and Regiment number (right).  A wide
leather belt supports the officer's cutlass.  Decorations are worn on the
left chest, at a level with the single button.  Marines wear their medals
only.  Campaign ribbons are left in the records, Marines fight, there is no
need to brag about it!  Despite their tradition of disdaining the wearing
of drop wings, they are mandatory for the dress uniform.  The wings are
worn above all other decorations and qualification badges, such as assault
pilot, etc,.

Headgear is a maroon beret.  Officers on shipboard duty wear a flash with
the ship's crest.  All others have a black flash with a gold sunburst.
(Exception: Members of the Marine Guard wear the Emperor's family crest, to
show their devotion to the man, rather than the office.)

Trousers are white, with a maroon strip running down the outside seam of
each leg.  The trousers are bloused into a pair of calf-high boots, which
are highly shined.

The effect is a simple, streamlined look.  The Navy wears much the same,
but their rank boards and such are yellow, and they wear far more
decorations and badges.  A Marine Officer in a room full of Navy types
looks like a hawk among peacocks, which is the idea.

If you can find it, look for a catalog called Alteryears, which is a great
source of patterns for vintage clothing.  Also, look around for a custom
embroidery shop.  You can get the patches and flashes pretty cheaply.  For
medals, I suggest a trip to a surplus store.  Be careful what you wear!
You might run into someone who is entitled to what you are calling a MCUF
who will take exception to your use of it.  I suggest medal from countries
that no longer exist.  I have a couple of WWII Italian civilian medals that
are impressive as hell, and I don't think anyone will mind my declaring
myself a recipient of an award for Excellence in Supervising Rail
Operations.  (I'm serious.  I also have an award congratulating me on
bearing five live children for the Reich.)

Good luck, and when you get your costume done, post it to a web page so we
can see!



- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry   dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
|--------------------------------------|
| "Oscar Wilde only wishes he was this |
|  gay!"        -Crow T. Robot, MST3K  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:53:41 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

At 09:32 AM 3/19/98 -0600, you wrote:
>> Clarke's Law.  By definition, a TL 35 piece of equipment will seem to be
>> magic to even a sophisticated TL 15 Imperial scientist.
>
>	Speaking of the ancients, Does anyone have a copy of the Journal that had
>the artical Grandfather's Worlds in it?  I think it was 47.  I would like
>to buy it, or at least see the artical.

Challenge 47, I think you mean.. I'll have to look, but I'm pretty sure I
have it somewhere.  The one about the "string of pearls," right?  I've been
tempted to do that as a modern-day Bermuda Triangle type game.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "I'm just like anybody else, I want |
|  to be a non-conformist too."       |
|                      -Lenny Bruce   |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:17:15 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Rule comparisons

At 09:28 AM 3/19/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>> favorite rule set.  This may well change when I see T4.1, since I liked
>> what I saw in T4, but the horrendous errata and errors put me off a bit.
>
>	What is T4.1?  I understand T4, but where doe the .1 come from?

T4.1 is the revision being worked on as we speak by Marc.  It will address
many of the problems we saw in the rushed effort that was T4.  Everyone on
the list has told Marc to take his time and get it right.

Every now and then, he sends out sections of the rules for commentary.  So
far, I really like what I see.
- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:26:40 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

At 10:51 PM 3/19/98 +1200, Frank wrote:

>The whole sector was covered in CT Supplement 11 : The Solomai Rim,
>there are paragraphs on each subsector therein.

Supplement 10.  11 was Library Data N-Z.  Sup10 does little more than give
the astrographic data, with short essays on the Solomani government and the
history of the region.

JTAS 15 had an article on Azun, a HiPop world.  Double Adventure 3, Argon
Gambit/Death Station, is set in the SR.  Argon Gambit is a political
thriller.  DGP's Solomani & Aslan gave extensive information about the
Solomani Confederation, Earth, and a bit about the Vegans. It also gives
complete data for the Solomani Rim sector.  Travellers' Digest 14 or 15
gave extensive coverage to Earth.

>The Vegan's were covered as a featured species in a Journal or similar
>publication (perhaps FASA's High PAssage), though I can't track down
>the article

I just checked my collection, and I can't find it either.  I do seem to
remember it being in JTAS, but it could have been Challenge.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #291
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 19 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 292



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Solomani Rim Information
Stealth Suits
Re: X-boats
Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords
Re: Environmental domes
Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords
Re: Uniforms
Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe
Re: Pronunciation of Regina
re: Stormtrooper Rolls
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: X-boats
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Re: Product listing for CT (List provided)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:56:53 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

>The whole sector was covered in CT Supplement 11 : The Solomai Rim,
>there are paragraphs on each subsector therein.
>


Does anyone have a copy of S11: The Solomani Rim that they would be willing
to trade, sell or copy (with permission from Marc, of course)?

Thanks,
Shawn
electric-stitch@w-link.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:16:01 -0500
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Stealth Suits

Frank G. Pitt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>And if you're good enough, and can identify him, this person can be
>overcome. Bribed, conned, cajoled, replaced, whatever. The highest
>tech security system in the world is useless if the owner hands
>you the keys.

No good if the Imperial Governor uses the security system to protect
himself, the tech whiz was professional and didn't design in a
backdoor, and the security guard is three security guards.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<ME>
The governor's security system was invented/installed/monitored by someone
else - if the governor is your target, this "someone else" is the key.
So what if the tech whiz didn't install a back door? He's still the best person
to tell you what the security system can do, or tell you who *can* get you
through it - if the proper persuasion is applied.
And if there are three security guards, that just means a bigger bribe - 
or a rethink of the plan to get to the guy in charge of the three security guards.

<Frank again>
Not to mention all such techniques mean _someone_ knows you've
been there.

<ME>
No...these techniques mean that _someone_ (who can't say anything about it
without implicating themselves) knows _someone_ has been there. You 
don't think we were pulling these stunts with our real names and faces, 
do you? :)


I agree wholeheartedly that there are some setups you can only crack with
the professional B&E gear. Even when you are pulling the scams I was
talking about, it's often just to get enough information to use the B&E gear
properly - a copy of the head scientist's voiceprint to open the lock, once
we sneak into the research station to use it, for example. I would say that 
without pulling the secret-agent scam-artist routine, there are many bases
that the best B&E would be worthless against.

There's quite a bit of the scam routine that you can pull without anyone 
knowing anyone was there. A security guard "dies of the measles" (is killed
in a manner that appears to be accidental) after you've interrogated him.
A skilled disguise artist impersonates a clerk in a busy office, lifting the
critical code while the real clerk is taking a very long potty break (brought
on by your team medic slipping a potion into the guy's tea an hour ago during
lunch break). 

The way you're describing your team, Frank, I get the idea your employers
have already done this secret agent "leg work" for you - they found out
the who, what, and where and brought in your team (which sounds very, very
good at the B&E stuff) to do what you do best. Our group didn't mind being
cat burglars, but we liked being secret agents better.  :)

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:28:14 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Anders Backman wrote:

> >Quite right. My own preferred explanation (non-canon warning!) is that in
> >a few percent of all jumps (something like 1 in 36 ;-) the jump field
> >develops an unpredictable flutter some time during the journey. Nothing a
> >competent, or even semi-competent, engineer can't handle
>
> Pretty good handwave there except that it doesn't explain why a competent,
> or even semi-competent Engineer bot cannot handle it. Is it psionic in
> nature or what?
>

Or a vampire ship from TNE?

It really breaks down into two theories:
A) all calculations and energy expenditures are done before jump. This
presumes a jump tunnel is formed and all you do is fall through it.  This is
pretty much how a jump projector would work.
B) calculations and energy expenditure is done en route.  This opens some
undesirable possibilities.  First, you can't use drop tanks (you could but
you'd carry them through jumpspace). Second, jump times could be reduced by
planning a route to a jump 6, then dropping into N-space midway (which is
definitely a no no).

An important note is that xboat message torps wouldn't affect the Traveller
universe much at all (except having a cheaper/moderately faster
communication).  Your typical gaming group still needs a maneuver capable
vehicle and generally doesn't jump the same route 50 times a year. Merchants
need to be on board to watch cargo. Liners are still needed for moving people.

This could be modified into an emergency beacon/life boat.  My original design
could fit into a standardized 54kl cargo container. But you still need an
astrogator to do the programming and you need somebody to receive the message
at the other side.  At 4-5 Mcr per computer, they're the most expensive
components. That makes the jump torp a rather expensive distress beacon.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:46:54 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords

Hey Guys;

I have an idea. Since I'm an umemployed student with limited time and funds,
how about I do this: I send the photocopies to the first person who E mailed
me. I also include the addresses of the other people who wanted them. Each
person, starting with the first, makes one copy, and sends it to the next
person, along with the address list. Remember; save a tree, and use the double
sided copy option. The net result is like a chain letter. This way no one has
to send money for copy and postage charges (as they are absorbed by the cost
of each person making one copy, and mailing it. If no one screws this up, this
should be workable. And please, only make ONE personal copy. The whole point
of this, is that everyone gets a single copy for themselves. I do NOT want to
abuse Marc Miller's generosity in letting me do this.

Seth

PS, Marc, If this is not OK, please post to the TML. While your at it. How
about an official author's ruling on this type of stuff?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:59:21 -0600
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Environmental domes

Jo Grant wrote:

> It the PE analysis I did of the Imperium, Junidy was in the top 12 worlds
> in the Imperium. It really is that big. I'd have to run the numbers again
> but I reckon it is 10-15% of the market in the Spinward Marches (adjusted
> for exchange rate). Try running the TCS formula on it to see their revenue.
> With that as a local tax base, you can have great monumental public works,
> like your domed city. Don't limit yourself too much to tech-9 for
> governmental works. they can afford to import a lot.

Surely not one of the top twelve of the Imperium.  I'd accept that it's that
big in the Domain of Deneb; it's one of the two most populous worlds in the
Marches (accompanied by Rethe/Regina, which is tech-8), circa 1120.  But
there's some very powerful worlds in Deneb, which are bigger in population
and technology level, with environments similar to Junidy.  Pikha/Zeng, for
example.

However, your point still stands; Junidy is a *major* world in the region,
and tech-9 is capable of some quite impressive things, given Junidy's 
resources.  

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:14:16 -0600
From: Trey Shewmake <yert@mad.scientist.com>
Subject: Re: (Sorry to change the thread); trade items, was Re: swords

Sethkimmel wrote:
> 
> Hey Guys;
> 
> I have an idea. Since I'm an umemployed student with limited time and funds,
> how about I do this: I send the photocopies to the first person who E mailed
> me. I also include the addresses of the other people who wanted them. Each
> person, starting with the first, makes one copy, and sends it to the next
> person, along with the address list. Remember; save a tree, and use the double
> sided copy option. The net result is like a chain letter. This way no one has
> to send money for copy and postage charges (as they are absorbed by the cost
> of each person making one copy, and mailing it. If no one screws this up, this
> should be workable. And please, only make ONE personal copy. The whole point
> of this, is that everyone gets a single copy for themselves. I do NOT want to
> abuse Marc Miller's generosity in letting me do this.
> 
> Seth
> 
> PS, Marc, If this is not OK, please post to the TML. While your at it. How
> about an official author's ruling on this type of stuff?

Sounds good to me - I'll play. :)

Trey Shewmake
Tribute Tech & Research
3636 Vanuys Apt. B
Memphis, TN 38111

- -- 
Trey B. Shewmake                                  yert@mad.scientist.com
Traveller: The Spinward Marches MUD         crazy.net 9999
                         http://www.crazy.net/~spinward

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:07:13 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Uniforms

"talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>writes:
>I am trying to come up with a costume for a con, and I was wondering if
>there were any official designs for Imperial marine officer's dress
>uniforms?

Yup. Travellers Digest #9 (I think) gave military uniforms for the
Imperial Guard. A later Digest gave uniforms for the Terran Occupation
Force.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 98 13:43:39 
From: "Jens.Maskus" <Jens.Maskus@stud.uni-hannover.de>
Subject: Re: Fitting the Traveller background into a 3D universe

On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:45:44 -0800, Jim Cooper wrote:

>Andrew Smith wrote:
>
>In MTU, we (the PC's) are not involved in world politics perse. That is
>not to say that we cannot or will not become involved, but whatever
>involvement we do have is on a much smaller scale (espionage activities,
>snatch and grab, extraction, investigate and report, I think you get the
>idea). This is easier for me to control and allows me to keep the party
>small(er). My (our) ship carries variously from 55 to 65 multi-talented
>characters and aliens. We have 3 main PC's and variably 3 to 9 NPC's
>who, because of circumstance change from episode to episode. Some of the
>NPC's are added as a result of episodes we have, and any NPC can become
>a PC if the game needs the talents of that particular NPC. This gives my
>players a chance to role-play many or various alien type's. The minimum
>required to operate the ship (last resort) would be possibly 26-30 so as
>crews are lost for whatever reason, we are forced to locate
>replacements, which means visiting and interacting with whatever is
>dirtside. The band as a whole are a roving bunch of you name it,
>galivanting around in space, getting into and out all sorts of mischief,
>and generally having a blast.
> 


What kind of ship do you use and how big is it?


Jens Maskus
Faust@stud.uni-hannover.de

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:12:20 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Regina

Frank G. Pitt noticed that:

>Did anyone mention that the FGMP-15 looks _exactly_ like a thingee ?

Periodic plug for the marital aid favored by 9 out of 10 safecrackers:

    <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/saypmpp.html>


Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:14:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: re: Stormtrooper Rolls

SD Mooney writes:

>>     There was a time when the Traveller characters in my campaign ended up
>>playing Star Wars. Yes, the characters, not the players.
>
>One of my friends ran a Star Wars game where the players (rebels) ended up
>impounded at Alderbran (Spelling!) just as the sun was eclipsed by a rogue
>moon...
>
>They escaped and ended up on the 'moon' in the interogation cells,
>following a brief visit by a certain Lord Vader, and escaped after a
>firefight happened in the cells around them.

<snip>

   I wondered how someone would do "Forrest Gump" in space....

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:31:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

Doug Berry wrote:

>>The whole sector was covered in CT Supplement 11 : The Solomai Rim,
>>there are paragraphs on each subsector therein.
>
>Supplement 10.  11 was Library Data N-Z.  Sup10 does little more than give
>the astrographic data, with short essays on the Solomani government and the
>history of the region.

   Which is why I recommended AM 6: Solomani.  It contains all of the
information that Supplement 10 did, plus a lot extra.

>DGP's Solomani & Aslan gave extensive information about the
>Solomani Confederation, Earth, and a bit about the Vegans. It also gives
>complete data for the Solomani Rim sector.

   Make that extensive information about the Solomani Confederation, a bit
about Earth, and a picture of a Vegan about to get thrashed by the police
during a protest.

>Travellers' Digest 14 or 15 gave extensive coverage to Earth.

   IIRC, it was TD 13, and the bit about the polar caps melting should be
cheerfully ignored, as should the bit about the Great Pyramids getting drown
(there's science-fiction and then there is fantasy...).  Most everything
else is quite good.

>The Vegan's were covered as a featured species in a Journal or similar
>publication (perhaps FASA's High PAssage), though I can't track down
>the article

   That would be Traveller Chronicle #11.  Of course you could also just
download it from my Web site at: http://www.siscom.net/~hdhale/COE.htm

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:42:15 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: X-boats

At 08:45 AM 3/19/98 -0500, Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>> David P. Summers writes?
>> >Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:53:52 +0100,  anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders
Backman)
>> >>>If you want to be consitent with the Traveller background, you
>> >>>really need to presume that even in jump space, you need a conscious
>> >>>pilot.  Otherwise the space lanes would be full of automatic
>> >>>cargo carriers.
>> >
>> >>Conscious Astrogator right?
>> >
>> >Its not clear to me that the background mandates which (astrogator vs
pilot
>> >vs Engineer) it needs to be. Single man ships usually have people with all
>> >three.
>>
>> Quite right. My own preferred explanation (non-canon warning!) is that in
>> a few percent of all jumps (something like 1 in 36 ;-) the jump field
>> develops an unpredictable flutter some time during the journey. Nothing a
>> competent, or even semi-competent, engineer can't handle, but fatal if it
>> isn't corrected.

>Why couldn't an onboard computer resolve said "Flutter"?

You have just asked the fatal question - why do they have people do
ANYTHING in Traveller, once TL hits a certain point.  Robots and computers
are getting very cheap, very fast, so either you find a handwave to say
that we will hit a wall stopping this process, or you have a lot of useless
people running around.

I came up with the following noncanonical handwaves for star crew.

Normal space travel uses thruster plates that are very, very sensitive to
gas density, radiation, and other goodies.  A navigator can detect (using
sensors) such conditions, and then can plot a course that avoids them.  If
a world has a strong Scout presence, then they can make maps and course
tapes that will get you to a jump point, so you do not need a navigator, as
long as the tapes are accurate.


In Jump, similar conditions apply.  The flutter is not caused by any
initial conditions, rather, it is caused by something going on in
jumpspace.  Since no instrument has yet been created that can survive going
outside a jump bubble, and no ship has been created that survives sticking
any substantial part of itself outside, little is known about the nature of
jump space.  (I personally prefer small turtles carrying all ships on their
back, but i have been known to be fey.)

The pilot is responsible for following said plans.  In general, this is a
task taken over by a machine fairly early, which makes the pilot useful
more for intuition than anything else, much like a navigator.  As long as
the situation is perfectly normal and follows plans, a machine does it
better than a human, while if it deviates, the machine's recovery
algorithms can react faster, if not necessarily as well, as a human.

The engineer is responsible for making the drive systems produce the
outputs needed by the pilot to follow either the realspace or jumpspace
course plots.  This is a full time job if the navigator is not good, the
sensor data is flawed, or the pilot does not follow the nav plan as requested.

One of the Big Secrets of my campaign is that Psionic technology forms the
basis of TL 19+ culture, and that this technology can be automated at that
tech level.  Jumpspace is a phenomenon that makes sense once you hit TL 20
or so, primarily because it is Psionic in nature.  Ships with good pilots,
engineers, and navigators suffer substantially lower rates of failure than
those without, even if they do nothing but sit on their thumbs for the
entire voyage.  This is one reason why space crew are superstitious.

Psionic, in this context, means a phenomenon that comes from the same root
cause as consciousness.  I am using the Penrose model for cognition in my
world, which says an extremely complex expert system can mimic intelligence
quite well, but it will not be intelligent.  Read "The Emperor's New Mind"
for his definitions of what intelligence is in that case, and take it with
a grain of salt.

Anyhow, it takes until TL 17 or so before technology arises which can
create intelligence in that sense, another tech level to figure out the
Psionic technologies needed to induce it in otherwise non Psionic people,
and one more after that to start getting Psionic machinery.  Once one has
all three, ships are usually entirely automatic, since the Psionic machines
have all the advantages for star crew.

Below that point, figure that the navigator is frantically calling up data
from the sensors, reducing it, and making decisions about the conditions.
The pilot is using that input to decide how to best configure the jump
bubble, and the engineer is fiddling with it to make it math the pilot's
desires.

>I've been reviewing the other thread about losing your jump bubble... It sure
>SEEMS like the whole jump is front loaded and you have quite literally
NOTHING to
>do in jump space.

MT canon had it so.  I changed that.

>What I will concede is that jumping into unexplored areas MAY have gravitic
>anomolies that must be resolved.  But the XBoat system jumps the same route
>continuously.  It would be very well charted.

There is an awful lot of space, and even slight errors can result in a
different enough course to matter.  Of course, I figure that the Scouts
need to do surveys on a monthly basis at least to keep the charts up to
date for the merchants, while military charts that are more than a year old
are not nearly as helpful.  This keeps the Scouts plenty busy.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:06:17 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

SD Mooney wrote:
[snip]
>>Discrete != discreet
>
>Mitterand.
>
>And 'discrete' is *English* not American.... ;-)

So the math/physics/eng. departments at American universities teach classes
in discreet analysis?  I KNEW the CIA was still active on campuses, but
this is far worse than I'd imagined!

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:13:28 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

At 01:31 PM 3/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Doug Berry wrote:

<snip Harold smacking my rep as a traveller guru around a bit.>

>>The Vegan's were covered as a featured species in a Journal or similar
>>publication (perhaps FASA's High PAssage), though I can't track down
>>the article
>
>   That would be Traveller Chronicle #11.  Of course you could also just
>download it from my Web site at: http://www.siscom.net/~hdhale/COE.htm

No offense to the excellent TC article, but I know I saw a Contact! type
article on the Vegans somewhere long ago..

Quick trivia:  What is the first canonical mention of the Vegans?
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
|----------------------------------------|
| "The best tank terrain is that without |
|  anti-tank weapons."                   |
|            -Russian Military Doctrine  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:36:08 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

Something else...there was a segment on (20/20, 48 hours...one of the
network newsloids) about this bunch of Travelers, who are a clan of con
artists based in South Carolina. Some of them nearly scammed DisneyWorld
out of 2 or 3 million dollars...(this is what the 'Traveler's' movie was
about last year)

Hmmmm....actually, now that I think about it, except for the fact that the
scamming _wasn't_ being done with PMPP's they _do_ sound like some
Traveller groups I've run with...;-)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, SD Mooney wrote:

> kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote:
> 
> >Harold Hale wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >>   Say what you will about the former French president, Metterand (I
> >>probably destroyed the spelling, sorry) but he stuck with one mistress, and
> >>kept it discrete (that would be a French word, no?).  Clinton is well
> >
> >Discrete != discreet
> 
> Mitterand.
> 
> And 'discrete' is *English* not American.... ;-)
> 
> eg
> color - colour
> Trash - wastebasket (these two are the changes to turn the MacOS from the
> US to the UK release. That's why it takes 3 months ;-) )
> Traveler - Traveller.
> 
> Interesting question (possibly) for Loren/Marc. Did you ever try for a
> trademark in the UK, and if so did you have any problems with 'Traveller'
> as it is the normal usage of the word in the UK?
> 
> Dom
> 
> 
> Dom
> 
> ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
> "Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
> notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
> just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
> invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
> --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:26:29 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Product listing for CT (List provided)

Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Is there a complete product listing for CT anywhere on the net?
>
> Mikko Parviainen
> --
> This message transmitted on 100% recycled photons.

To save Marc the trouble:  (although they may be more CT stuff out
there).

Bloo
**************


CardSharks wrote:
******************
you have to peruse the list and tell me what you want. then I can look
to see
if I have it, and let you know.

Marc

TRAVELLER
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first 12
months sold more than 10,000 sets.
        Classic Traveller was published between 1977 and 1988 and
accounted for more
than 250,000 rules sets. During that time, the basic background for the
game
was established.
        MegaTraveller shook up the universe by revealing the Rebellion
and its
upheaval. The MegaTraveller rules set was published between 1988 and
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        In 1991, Game Designers Workshop undertook a revision to
emphasize mercenary
aspects of the universe. Traveller New Era, which appeared between 1992
and
1995.
Traveller 4 (the latest edition of the game system) appeared in 1996.

RULES SETS
        T1      Basic Traveller
        T3      Deluxe Traveller
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        T8      The Traveller Adventure
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------------------------------

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Traveller-digest      Thursday, March 19 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 293



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: Stormtrooper Rolls
Re: Pocket Empires
Looking for Famille Spofulam
Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #292
Forms and Charts
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: X-boats
Re: Forms and Charts
Classic Traveller Career Question
Items for SaleTrade
CT items for sale
Re: X-boats
Re: Pocket Empires
Re: Environmental Domes
Stutterwarp in FF&S 1
Re: Pocket Empires
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Lost in time
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?
Vegans (Was Re: Solomani Rim Information)
Re: X-boats
Re: Lost in time
RE: Passenger and freight costs
Re: Product listing for CT (List provided)
Re: Classic Traveller Career Question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:28:47 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

My guess is the Supplement 10 (Library data N-Z) mention.

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:34:56 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Stormtrooper Rolls

Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:

>      Anytime they came across one or more baddies and did something
> unexpected ("This has nothing to do with the B3 bomber!"), marginally
> plausable ("There are rebels attacking the gate!"), or confusing (intoning
> mystically "You can let us through.") I gave the baddies a stormtrooper
> roll. I rolled a d6 and if it came up 1 or 2 the stormtroopers would stand
> there confused for a round.
>      This worked tremendously well as it allowed the players to concoct
> very tenuous schemes and floor loads of baddies. Of course once they were
> out of Virtual Reality they had to readjust. They almost tried a similar
> hokey trick on some _Imperial_ strormtroopers, but thought better of it
> :-).

GENIUS!  I'm going to use this in regular play!  (My players are move brave
than skilled.  I think they enjoy rolling up characters more than actually
playing).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:39:13 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires

Chris Jones wrote:

>    Hi, I'd like to know who, if anyone, has tried running a Pocket
> Empires campaign.  I'm considering trying it myself and would like to
> talk to some others about it.  I would appreciate knowing what to do,
> what to avoid, what's fun and what's not.  Your response either on the
> list or in private mail would be very helpful.

I've got it and read most of it.  Haven't actually used it, as much as I'd
like to.

Is anyone running any PE-PBEM?  I think PE really lends itself to PBEM.
It might be great fun.  Especially as a multiplayer.  Heck, we could have
a TML-PE-PBEM game.  Would need a referee, but the drama would be players
competing for control of the same space.  And I'd have an excuse to use
Imperial Squadrons!  This would be great.  If I get some time, I'd be
willing to help run such a fest, I've got some free webspace.  But I'd
love to be a player.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:37:09 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Looking for Famille Spofulam

Sorry to interrupt, but I am looking for an email address for Roderick
Darroch Elliot. Does anyone have a current address for him?

Sincerely,

Brian A. Howard

Beware the sound of a Babel fish,
For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:48:32 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)

Chris Semans wrote:
> 
> The 50% number is taken from the "Aliens for Traveller:  Draft Material". 
> As far as I know, official, unless there is a finished version out there
> that corrects this.  So yes, we _do_ really have an idea of the percentage
> of the population are minor human races as of the late Third Imperium.

Uh, I've never seen this. Where was this published? (The thing with 
canon is, it sucks if you don't have a copy of everything... down with 
canon)

> 75% genetically Vilani is not supported by any sort of canon I'm familiar
> with.  As far as communication lines, they're bad, that's one of the
> founding tenants of the Traveller Universe.

bad != non-existant. I always imagined the communications lines to
be reasonably reliable, especially on major trade routes, merely slow.
Even before the advent of the X-boat network, there must have been
mail runs. It only takes one enterprising entertainment company to start
selling movies off-planet before you have culture being externally
influenced. _Slow_ influence, sure.

> Yes, and the government of the U.S. (not sure about Canada) was formed
> during a classical revival, which should be kept in mind as well.  I
> acknowledge that the U.S. is influenced by Roman culture.  But, again, we
> got it from the British, the French, the Spanish and a little from the
> Dutch.  These places were all within a relatively short distance of each
> other in the grand scheme of things.  Now, we've got a vast distance
> (time-wise) from, say Corridor to the Solomani Rim...  Alot more of a
> chance for change.

I don't see a big difference - at the time the US was settled, it took a
_long_ time to get from Europe to the US. You don't need to go to Rome,
study Rome or even have _heard_ of Rome to have been influenced by
Roman culture. Such is Rome's insidious influence. Such will be Vland's.

> I don't doubt this.  But, I'm not sure that the Third Imperium (especially
> the late Third Imperium) is as dominantly Vilani as is popularly believed. 
> Just something rubs me the wrong way about that.  As I stated before, I'm
> not saying it would be dominantly Solomani either, I just think it would be
> more or less neither with elements of both cultures thrown in for good
> measure.
>
> Especially if you throw the megacorporations in and try to properly deal
> with the amount of influence they hold over the Imperium, culturally and
> governmentally...

The three biggest megacorporations are (surprise!) Vilani. They have
their roots in the Vilani "big three" at any rate. Other megacorps
would follow the patterns set by these three (there is a fairly limited
amount of innovation in the business world, IMO). If anything, the
megacorps would be responsible for keeping silly old Vilani traditions
rather than breaking them down. 

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:51:18 -0500
From: Greg Smith <gsmith@helot.arl.mil>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #292

<<<<<<From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
How about this:  I send the photocopies to the first person who E
mailed  me. I also include the addresses of the other people who wanted
them. Each person, starting with the first, makes one copy, and sends it
to the next person, along with the address list. >>>>>>

This idea works for me.  However, make a copy for yourself and send the
ORIGINAL to the next person.  That way, we will all have a first
generation (clean) original to copy, even the last person on the list.

I'm for it.

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:06:05 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Forms and Charts

Anyone put together a large set of these, including various ID cards,
icons, badges, and logos?

Alternatively, has anyone scanned in the CT supplement?  This was one I
could not justify at the time, but might be kind of fun.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:08:01 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

Well, since I have all the star charts for the Solomani Rim, I guess I
wouldn't need S10: The Solomani Rim. I have "Solomani and Aslan" does this
cover everything in A6: Solomani or is there more information. I guess what
I am looking for is world, subsector, and sector write-ups and politcal
information other than the retaking of Terra in the MT era

John,

I would be interested in those world write-ups. Do you have them digitally?
or just hand-written notes?

Since I don't need the maps and such, would anyone be willing to scan or
type up the write-ups from A6 and send them to me? Can we do this Marc?

I hate to keep asking Marc for these permissions, I guess it would be easier
if CT was rereleased (maybe on CD or on the Web) It would be nice to access
the information. That's all I really want. I don't care to make money or
collect anything... I would just like to play Traveller.

Thanks,
Shawn Campbell
electric-stitch@w-link.net



>
>>The whole sector was covered in CT Supplement 11 : The Solomai Rim,
>>there are paragraphs on each subsector therein.
>>
>
>
>Does anyone have a copy of S11: The Solomani Rim that they would be willing
>to trade, sell or copy (with permission from Marc, of course)?
>
>Thanks,
>Shawn
>electric-stitch@w-link.net
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:20:23 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: X-boats

>jump space.  (I personally prefer small turtles carrying all ships on their
>back, but i have been known to be fey.)

  Why would the Sayat be willing to use Jump-drive, knowing that
just the other side of the hull there's a horde of byakhee trying
to push the ship at FTL speeds?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:20:51 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Forms and Charts

Just be careful that you put the Traveller ID in a seperate wallet. It would
be very embarassing to pull out a 4518th. Lift Infantry regiment ID instead of
a driver's license, not to mention that the Police Officer would either
question your sanity and/or arrest you for falsifying ID  :-). Hmm... I smell
an adventure thread here....

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:30:16 -0600
From: "Jeremy Reaban" <frankpul@stlnet.com>
Subject: Classic Traveller Career Question

I've written a Classic Traveller character generator. I've already included
all the careers in products I have - the 6 basic ones, the 12 from Citizens
of the Imperium, one from Dragon Magazine, the ones from the Darrian
Modules, the Dryone Castes, and a few of my own creation. 

My question is: What other CT products have normal careers in them? (ie,
not the extended careers like in Books 4-7 which I don't like). I'd guess
the alien modules, as the Darrian one has some. But do any of the others? I
know Twilight's Peak has Dryone rules, but do any of the adventures have
something like that?  

   Thanks!

                 Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:49:45 -0700
From: Eric Holmes <holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov>
Subject: Items for SaleTrade

Fellow Partners in J-Space:

I have two items up for sale or trade:

A Marc Miller signed copy of JTAS #16

A good copy of Alien Module:  Droyne   (Droh~ee-nay' for you non-ESA types)

I desire a fair condition copy of Alien Module:  Zhodani  (Zoh-dah'-nee)
Will accept a clean photo copy, I'll pay postage via SASE.  Let me know
estimated weight and postage.

FWIW, this is how the Haus OBERG pronounces Galanglish Vowels

A  ah
E  ay
I  ee
O  oh
U  oo  long u
Y  ya
OY oh~ee  like "toy"
OI oh~ee
AU ah~oo  like "out" or "house"
OU oh~oo  like "Souffle"
IA ee-ah
IE ee
EI ah-ee
AI ay-ee


Eric

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:42:31 -0600
From: Paul Kerby <ybrekp@mtco.com>
Subject: CT items for sale

Sorry to waste bandwidth, but I inherited a few items from an ex-gamer
and thought
I would see if anyone was interested in them.  All prices include
shipping(in the US,
overseas, we will work something out).  All payments should be in US
funds.  Money
orders or bank drafts only.
Items are rated from 1 to 5, 1 being usable but in bad shape and 5 being
new or nearly new.
If you are interested, respond to the above email address.  Sales will
be on a first come, first served basis.

here we go:

Item                                    Condition
Price
Book 0 An intro to Traveller        5                           $5.00
Book 5 High Guard                    5                            $12.00

Book  8 Robots                         3
$10.00
Supp. 7 Traders & Gunboats     5                             $12.00
Alien Module 1  Aslan                3                            $7.00
Alien Module  2 K'kree             3                             $7.00
Alien Module 3 Vargr                4                            $10.00
Alien Module 6  Solomani          3                            $7.00

Paranoia Press
SORAG                                    5
$10.00
Scouts and Assassins                4+                           $8.00
Merchants and Merchandise      5                            $10.00
The Beyond                               3
$6.00
Vanguard Reaches                     3                            $6.00

Fasa
Action Aboard
   (adv. on the King Richard)       4                           $8.00
FCI Consumer Guide                  4                           $8.00

If you are interested in any of these, please email me at
ybrekp@mtco.com

Happy Travelling

*** The only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:50:18 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: X-boats

Steven Hudson wrote:

>  Why would the Sayat be willing to use Jump-drive, knowing that
>just the other side of the hull there's a horde of byakhee trying
>to push the ship at FTL speeds?

Ah, but the Sayat perhaps _don't_ use jump drive, as the Imperium knows
them.  Perhaps there's hungry byakhee trapped in their mysterious FTL
drives, trying to get out to get at the turtles.  That would explain why
Sayat starships use kitty litter and sunflower seeds for "jump ballast"
instead of LHyd.  Eh?  Put _that_ in your PMPP and smoke it.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:01:43 +1300
From: Raymond John Gray <raygun@ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires

> Chris Jones Wrote:
>
>    Hi, I'd like to know who, if anyone, has tried running a Pocket
> Empires campaign.  I'm considering trying it myself and would like to
> talk to some others about it.  I would appreciate knowing what to do,
> what to avoid, what's fun and what's not.  Your response either on the
> list or in private mail would be very helpful.

Could ya include me too, could ya, could ya please?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:10:14 +1300
From: Raymond John Gray <raygun@ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Environmental Domes

Jo Grant, how did you do the PE analysis, by hand or using some spiffy program/ss that
you would love to share?

Please let it be the former...

Raygun

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 00:11:04 
From: "Stephan Aspridis" <Stephan.Aspridis@stud.uni-hannover.de>
Subject: Stutterwarp in FF&S 1

Hi,

I am trying to introduce the stutterwarp drive in my Traveller/Alternate Universe 
campaign.

The problem is, the formulas for stutterwarp given in FF&S 1 seem to be broken (the 
drive is too fast). Does anyone have the formulas of 2300AD's Director's Guide at hand 
(or whereever they were given in 2300AD)?

Ciao,
Stephan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:18:51 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires

Chris Jones wrote:
> 
>    Hi, I'd like to know who, if anyone, has tried running a Pocket
> Empires campaign.  I'm considering trying it myself and would like to
> talk to some others about it.  I would appreciate knowing what to do,
> what to avoid, what's fun and what's not.  Your response either on the
> list or in private mail would be very helpful.
> 
>    Chris Jones
>    Manhattan Associates, LLC
>    770-955-5533 ~1477

This would be a good topic - I am interested in running a PE campaign as well! 
:)

- -- 
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:34:10 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

>> Clarke's Law.  By definition, a TL 35 piece of equipment will seem to be
>> magic to even a sophisticated TL 15 Imperial scientist.

It's beginning to worry me that the Ancient TL seems /still/ to be
increasing. I'm sure it was given in 'Secrets of the Ancients' as 20-25,
and two weeks ago on the list it was 30. And now it's jumped to 35!

Yaskoydray must be doing smart drugs again.
8<

Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:03:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lost in time

On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> 1) Get hold of Milieu O campaign (the hardback version). Not only does it
> contain the corrected maps, it has a vast amount of useful information on
> the era.

I have one question about the hardcover:  is the population digit of 5 for
Vland correct?  Is my memory failing me?

If it is 5, does anybody know what happened to all those poor Vilani?

I have to agree that overall, M0:Campaign is a good supplement.  I
especially like the legal extensions to the UWP.


Thanks,
Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:23:40 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

>Quick trivia:  What is the first canonical mention of the Vegans?

Adventure 1 - The Kinuir.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:22:34 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: God plays friendly game of "drop the rock"?

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote:

>SD Mooney wrote:
>[snip]
>>>Discrete != discreet
>>
>>Mitterand.
>>
>>And 'discrete' is *English* not American.... ;-)
>
>So the math/physics/eng. departments at American universities teach classes
>in discreet analysis?  I KNEW the CIA was still active on campuses, but
>this is far worse than I'd imagined!

Actually, my good chap, you have been infiltrated by the SIS who are at
present working to recover Her Majesty's lost colonies. ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:46:10 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Vegans (Was Re: Solomani Rim Information)

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> No offense to the excellent TC article, but I know I saw a Contact! 
> type article on the Vegans somewhere long ago..

If anyone knows where that article is I'd love to find out.  It's not in any
of my issues of JTAS or Challenge, but I don't have a complete set.

> Quick trivia:  What is the first canonical mention of the Vegans?

Supplement 11, Library Data N-Z (under V)

Thanks-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:58:19 -0600
From: Trey Shewmake <yert@mad.scientist.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

A lot of people wrote:

*SNIP*

IMTU I consider jump time to only be relative to the outside observer -
hence "Actual Age" and "Apparent Age" - to the passengers, they only
notice a few moments go by, but to the Universe around them, 2 weeks has
passed.

Military personnel get debriefed during travel between the Jump point
and the starport - a quick data burst to the ship of the last two (or
four, or six, or eight, or so on) weeks worth of headlines and other
noteworthy news - civilians in high passage get a similar news feed,
those in medium get to hear it through gossip and catch up on thier own,
those in low (if they thaw) don't find out about the news until two
weeks after it happens anyways, so they don't miss much. :)

Yert
- -- 
Trey B. Shewmake                                  yert@mad.scientist.com
Traveller: The Spinward Marches MUD         crazy.net 9999
                         http://www.crazy.net/~spinward

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:58:51 -0500
From: "Rob Conley" <estar@toolcity.net>
Subject: Re: Lost in time

>If it is 5, does anybody know what happened to all those poor Vilani?


Vland in Mileau:0 is listed at B967344-A

Vland is not only has 2000 people on it, it is a representative democracy.

Tauri the first Vilani Colony is out of whack too. A130899-0

200000000 people breathing some might thin air at Tech Level 0

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:14:41 -0800
From: "Makens, Brian" <brian.makens@plpt.com>
Subject: RE: Passenger and freight costs

>
>Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:54:05 +0000
>From: "Andy Slack" <andyslack@unn.unisys.com>
>Subject: Passenger and freight costs
>
><<Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote:
>>>The piracy issue is IMO very very marginal - for a start, piracy will be
>>>about as common in the 3I as it is today.
>>>
><andyslack@unn.unisys.com>wrote
>>Not sure how common that is, but I have worked on naval systems for the Far
>>East whose primary purpose was piracy suppression, so I figure there are
>>still pirates around. The tack the client government was taking was not to
>>arm the merchantmen, but to put enough minor warships into the risk area
>>that pirates would be deterred. Of course that is much easier to do in a
>>small area of ocean with satnav and comms than it is in deep space...
>
>Unfortunately, in the Far East in the waters of the Malacca Straits, South
>China Seas and off the Philippines, piracy is still a going concern, in fact
>it is kind of a growing business. The piracy against  Japanese merchantmen
> in the Malacca Straits down by Indonesia/Malaysia, has caused the
>Japanese Government several times to threaten to dispatch a Destroyer
>Squadron to permanently patrol the straits, despite the political horror
>that may cause certain SE Asian governments. 
>
>In a example of how bolder pirates get when they feel a vacuum in deterrence,
>I read last year a news article where the Philippine Navy decorated a 
>Phil. Navy Lt. and his gun boat crew for gallantry in action for the
>sinking of 2 mainland Chinese pirate boats that they caught in the
>act of accosting a Phil. ferry boat in Subic Bay!!!! They actually
> had quite a little battle with the pirates firing anti-tank missiles at the 
>Phil. gun boat. I doubt seriously that the pirates would have struck
>in Subic bay, when it was a major base of the US 7th Fleet, but now with
>just the Phil gun boat navy there, the pirates moved in.
>
>Brian Makens

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 02:16:36 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Product listing for CT (List provided)

On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:26:29 -0500, Steve Daniels wrote:

[BIG snip]

> ORDERING INFORMATION
> Pricing reflects relative scarcity of the items. Those with higher
> prices are available in smaller quantities. Order with check or money
> order (we cannot take credit cards) to
>  
> FarFuture Enterprises
> 1418 North Clinton Blvd.
> Bloomington IL 61701
> 
> Condition: All items are new (some shop worn).
> Shipping: Please add $3 shipping. Include $5 shipping if you are out of
> the US and Canada.

I may have wandered into this thread a bit late, but am I to understand
that Marc is sitting on a virtual treasure trove of out-of-print Traveller
stuff, and it is for sale?  Just thought I'd ask before people start
filling Marc's emailbox with purchasing requests.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
            ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

         Mano au mano, the "Professor"
          would kick MacGyver's ass.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 22:20:41
From: 2drapers <2drapers@infowest.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller Career Question

At 04:30 PM 3/19/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I've written a Classic Traveller character generator. I've already included
>all the careers in products I have - the 6 basic ones, the 12 from Citizens
>of the Imperium, one from Dragon Magazine, the ones from the Darrian
>Modules, the Dryone Castes, and a few of my own creation. 
>
>My question is: What other CT products have normal careers in them?

All the Alien Modules had them.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #293
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, March 20 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 294



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Stealth Suits (fwd)
Re: X-boats
Re: Vilani
Stormtrooper Rolls
Re: Stutterwarp in FF&S 1
Re: Trav figs
Asst
Re: Stutterwarp in FF&S 1
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: X-boats
Re: X-boats
Stuff
Old Expanses
Re: Uniforms
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: Megatraveller Errata Available?
Re: Classic Traveller Career Question
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Stuff
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #290
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Classic Traveller Career Question
Re: Items for SaleTrade

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 01:31 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Stealth Suits (fwd)

Moin Walter G. Smith,

> cat burglars, but we liked being secret agents better.  :)

	Any system has as many security holes as people have access.
	As the secure systems have their "tiger teams" and are using
	the same tricks like the hackers, only the human factor is
	left. In Project Equaliser our running gack was Susi, when we
	werent able to break in, she did by walking in " hy I'm a studen
	of social politics " She played the " stupid woman " perfectly
	and allways came with a password she read from someones fingers.

	About secret agents. We have been kids this time, and one of
	us died. We all have been in prison, only Karl who wanted to
	talk to press, got a holiday free walk, and usual for german
	law he also got his passport. He leaned a car and burned himself
	outside Hamburg.

	Official disclaimer. We haven'nt worked for western intelligence,
	the only thing we sold to KGB was Minix and other public available
	stuff.

	Personal advise: dont play with the services, they dont play also.
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 02:41 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: X-boats

Moin Joe Pettit,

> Or a vampire ship from TNE?

	exactly - the idea of a vampire to build a small jump drive and
	to install it into a Rampart instead of a crewstation was the
	predecessor of the Roach Class of jump torpedos in Rurevayn. As
	the Cadmus-Z92 had escord of 6 Roaches, usual for a liner, when
	they delivered the CABAL* project, the Regency started to think
	about smaller X-Boats and invented the JumpBoat. Of course without
	a vampire on board a j-torpedo does'nt make sense, so their
	j-boats are still over 40dt.

> An important note is that xboat message torps wouldn't affect the Traveller
> universe much at all (except having a cheaper/moderately faster
> communication).

	A JT system would'nt speed up communication it would slow them down.
	Why is a quarter of the cargo table information? Because XBoats
	are to small! They've been designed during Antebellum when the
	3I was smaller and only TL:D. TL:F needs much more trade to sustain,
	and therefore much more information. In 1100 the XBoat system
	was stressed to its extends. Only after collapse smaller XBoat
	replacements became economic in the small scale of the Regency.

> Your typical gaming group still needs a maneuver capable
> vehicle and generally doesn't jump the same route 50 times a year. Merchants
> need to be on board to watch cargo. Liners are still needed for moving people.

	And vampires dont need meat on board ! But they need maintenance.
	1/3 of the jump drive is HPG and while HPG is fine for short weapon
	pulses using it a full week at maximum rate of fire will need a
	good engineer as HPG is quite mechanic by definition.

> This could be modified into an emergency beacon/life boat.  My original design
> could fit into a standardized 54kl cargo container. But you still need an
> astrogator to do the programming and you need somebody to receive the message
> at the other side.  At 4-5 Mcr per computer, they're the most expensive
> components. That makes the jump torp a rather expensive distress beacon.

	The 6x3x3 container is a nice idea, I've placed it into a turret.

			GZ-12-20 Emergency Gig

General Data:
    Displacement :     20 dt 		Tech Level :    12
    Length       :     17 meters 	Volume     :   280 m3
    Hull         :    248 m2     	Armor      :    20
    Mass         :    186 tons   	Price      :    15 MCr
Engineering Data:
    Hull             : 3 m3, 0.3 dt, 58 tons
    Fusion Plant     : 30 MW, 19 m3, 1.4 dt, 60 tons
    Jump performance : 3 Parsec (Drive 11 m3, 0.8 dt, Mass 33 tons)
         preperation : 9 minutes per parsec - 29 minutes 3 parsec
    G-Rating (HEPlaR): 2.7G (Thusters 25 MW, 2 m3, 2 tons)
    G-Turns          : 24 (72 using jump fuel) 1.2 m3 of fuel each
    Contra Graph     : 2.0 MW, 6 m3, 0.4 dt, 4 tons
    Fuel scope       : 0.6 m3, 24 hours to refine 84 m3, 6.0 dt
Electronics:
    Controll system  : Dynamic linked, 3*St Dynamic computers
    Avionics         :   TL 8+ 
    Commo            :   radio 30,000 km 
                     :   maser 1000 AU 
    Sensors          :   passive EMS 120,000 km 
                     :   PEMS fixed antenna 
                     :   densiometer 15.0 m3 
    Controls         :   workstation 14.0 m3 
                     :   crewstation 
Armament:
    Special          :   turret contains
                     : 1 jump drive 
                     : 4 emergency low berth 
Accomodations:
    Life Support     :   Grav 0.77 MW, 2.7 m3, 4 tons for 147 m3
                     :   crew stateroom 21.0 m3 
                     :   airlock 
    Cargo            : 31 m3 2 dt
Crew : (35% compmul, 6 maint) 2 humans
	 1 maneuvering	 1 electronics

Notes: Most ship crews will install a laser in the turret, and place the
       jd+lb turret in the cargo hold.
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 02:08 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Vilani

Moin Hans Rancke-Madsen,

> "Vilani & Vargr" had some rules for determining whether a character had
> the Vilani gene (or gene complex) for longevity.

	this rule is nice idea and alternative to becoming anagathic addict.

> My suggestion for Vilani population distribution when the Terrans arrived
> on the scene is this: One planet with billions of Vilani (Vland); thousands
> of Vilani colony planets with populations deliberately held to level 7 and
> 8 (enough for a well-functioning high-tech society without crowding). Most
> of these would be genetically and all would be culturally Vilani. And
> about 20 minor human homeworlds with high populations, at least level 8,
> some of them (but not many) level 9 (Plus a lot of minor non-human
> homeworlds, of course). These would be either culturally integrated or
> rigorously oppressed.

	The vilani had to face other human races. e.g. the Lancian
	(pure Lancian cant digest meat) the Suerrat (other breeding
	cicle) just to name two important fraction, they did'nt suppress
	like the races who did'nt looked humanlike (Loeskalth, Brinn)
	IIRC Vilani, Solomani and Lancian can interbreed, while Suerrat
	mule so we could expect to find more 100% Suerrat in the known
	space than 80% Vilani. At Terra the goal of war always was
	"Murder, Conquer, Rape" and the rule of !MAN! distributed Solomani
	shortliving effectivly. Hey what do you expect from a Solomani
	trooper hundreds of light years away from family ;-(
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 01:45 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Stormtrooper Rolls

Moin Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com,

> course there were millions of troops. I needed a way to simulate the film
> where a small group of super characters can take out whole batallions of
> baddies. So I inventedt he Stormtrooper Roll.

	this reminds me about "Kampf um Troja" a german skirmish wargame
	with the distinction between heroes and warriors. As known the
	battles of Troja started with a woman, being fight by heroes
	and solved by a horse. One of the main ideas of the rules was
	to reflect "historical" code of war. The troops group behind
	their heroes badmouthing the other side, until the heroes start
	to fight. The side with the winning hero is then charging the
	loser, who has to flee or to stand but will allways lose because
	of morality. Even if the plot (who's'fighting whom, and who'll
	win) was known beforhands, the troops had their importance as
	the final battle inside Troja had to be done by them. Morality
	was the most important factor as both sides had similar armaments.
	Therefore the importance of badmouthing before fight.
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:30:02 -0500
From: Daniel Poulin <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: Stutterwarp in FF&S 1

Try this formulae:

Efficiency = (TL x 0.45) + TL

Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca


At 00:11 20/03/98, Stephan Aspridis wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I am trying to introduce the stutterwarp drive in my Traveller/Alternate
Universe 
>campaign.
>
>The problem is, the formulas for stutterwarp given in FF&S 1 seem to be
broken (the 
>drive is too fast). Does anyone have the formulas of 2300AD's Director's
Guide at hand 
>(or whereever they were given in 2300AD)?
>
>Ciao,
>Stephan
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:50:52 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Trav figs

Hello,
  Someone recently suggested getting a write-up on Traveller
miniatures done. I could help with that (particularly the 25mm
stuff), but who should I talk to?

  BTW, anyone out there willing to trade the Space: 1889 "Legions
of Mars" figure set for Classic Trav books?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:54:40 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Asst

>I am trying to come up with a costume for a con, and I was wondering if
>there were any official designs for Imperial marine officer's dress
>uniforms?

I recall that we said somewhere that Imperial Marine full dress was maroon. I
know that parade Battle Dress (used in the game sense, not the British
military sense) is maroon. 

Loren

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:05:55 -0700
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Stutterwarp in FF&S 1

>Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 00:11:04 
>From: "Stephan Aspridis" <Stephan.Aspridis@stud.uni-hannover.de>
>Subject: Stutterwarp in FF&S 1
>
>The problem is, the formulas for stutterwarp given in FF&S 1 seem to be
broken (the 
>drive is too fast). Does anyone have the formulas of 2300AD's Director's
Guide at hand 
>(or whereever they were given in 2300AD)?

A reading from Traveller:2300 Referee's Manual, p. 21:

"As the stutterwarp drive is used, it builds up an energy contamination
that stalls the drive when it reaches a threshold level.  Energy
contamination is reversed by discharging it in a gravity well.  If the
discharge is not made before the ship has travelled its range value in
light years, the ship will be completely irradiated and the crew killed.
"The discharge must take place in a significant gravity well.  Getting into
the inner system of a star is sufficient.  The entire process takes
approximately 40 hours, during which time the drive can still be used (for
in-system travel)....

"In deep space, the warp efficiency is equal to light-years per day.... In
the inner system of a star where the gravity becomes greater than a few
thousandths of a G, the efficiency of the stutterwarp drops off enormously
(by a factor of approximately 10,000).... Finally, when gravitation reaches
some tenths of a G, the effficiency of the stutterwarp drops off once
again, down to the point where the stutterwarp cannot overcome the
gravitation and some other means of propulsion will be required."

and p. 22:

"Stutterwarp efficiency is equal to the cube root of (megawattage of the
ship power plant / mass of the ship in tons) multiplied by a constant.  In
most cases, this constant is 14.25, but varies slightly with the technology
used to build the stutter drive."

In the ship listings on pp. 28-35, efficiency varies from 2.076 to 4.068,
while range is always 7.7ly.

In essence, the data given in FF&S 1 *is* from Traveller:2300.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:17:26 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

>It's beginning to worry me that the Ancient TL seems /still/ to be
>increasing.                                            ^^^
     ^^^^

  _Of course_ it is - true AI robots are even cheaper than
grad students...

  Actually, pinching off pocket universes is "closer to TL 35"
than TL 25 (A:12, p.41). And that was shortly after the Final
War. He's had a lot of time on his hands since.

>Yaskoydray must be doing smart drugs again.

  Hmm, that could explain the Vilani patent system; they're still
trying to pay off Cthulhu for the passage fee to Vland...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:17:35 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: X-boats

>>  Why would the Sayat be willing to use Jump-drive, knowing that
>>just the other side of the hull there's a horde of byakhee trying
...
>instead of LHyd.  Eh?  Put _that_ in your PMPP and smoke it.

  And about this PMPP-envy thing. Sure, it's a funky little center-
line side arm, but it lacks, well, _power_.

  You realize that, if wearing a CES to protect against backblast or
exhaust gasses, a K'kree could carry an underslung recoilless or even
an ATGM? Truly, you could hang a lot of firepower off a K'kree.

  And that nighmarish vision should be enough to give even the most
over-the-top Sayat Alpha the willies (so to speak).

  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:52:01 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

>
>
>         The 6x3x3 container is a nice idea, I've placed it into a turret.
>
>                         GZ-12-20 Emergency Gig
>
> General Data:
>     Displacement :     20 dt            Tech Level :    12
>     Length       :     17 meters        Volume     :   280 m3
>     Hull         :    248 m2            Armor      :    20
>     Mass         :    186 tons          Price      :    15 MCr
> Engineering Data:
>     Hull             : 3 m3, 0.3 dt, 58 tons
>     Fusion Plant     : 30 MW, 19 m3, 1.4 dt, 60 tons
>     Jump performance : 3 Parsec (Drive 11 m3, 0.8 dt, Mass 33 tons)
>          preperation : 9 minutes per parsec - 29 minutes 3 parsec
>     G-Rating (HEPlaR): 2.7G (Thusters 25 MW, 2 m3, 2 tons)
>     G-Turns          : 24 (72 using jump fuel) 1.2 m3 of fuel each
>     Contra Graph     : 2.0 MW, 6 m3, 0.4 dt, 4 tons
>     Fuel scope       : 0.6 m3, 24 hours to refine 84 m3, 6.0 dt
> Electronics:
>     Controll system  : Dynamic linked, 3*St Dynamic computers
>     Avionics         :   TL 8+
>     Commo            :   radio 30,000 km
>                      :   maser 1000 AU
>     Sensors          :   passive EMS 120,000 km
>                      :   PEMS fixed antenna
>                      :   densiometer 15.0 m3
>     Controls         :   workstation 14.0 m3
>                      :   crewstation
> Armament:
>     Special          :   turret contains
>                      : 1 jump drive
>                      : 4 emergency low berth
> Accomodations:
>     Life Support     :   Grav 0.77 MW, 2.7 m3, 4 tons for 147 m3
>                      :   crew stateroom 21.0 m3
>                      :   airlock
>     Cargo            : 31 m3 2 dt
> Crew : (35% compmul, 6 maint) 2 humans
>          1 maneuvering   1 electronics
>
> Notes: Most ship crews will install a laser in the turret, and place the
>        jd+lb turret in the cargo hold.
> --

I believe you'll need at least a flight computer built into the Emergency jump
berth.  If the jump drive can be plugged into the ships purified fuel tank, all you
have to do is shut off the gravitics (which will misalign the jump), draw jump fuel
from the gig and jump right out of the turret. The jump flash may even look like a
weapon (eerie!). You'll also need power to keep life support functional (one week),
maybe a larger HPG built into the drive or a battery and a deployable solar array
once the jump is complete.  Then an automated comm system would send out a distress
call.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:58:47 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Stuff

>I may have wandered into this thread a bit late, but am I to understand
>that Marc is sitting on a virtual treasure trove of out-of-print Traveller
>stuff, and it is for sale?  

He (and Frank and I) took what he wanted from the reserve room in the
warehouse (the room where we stored a small reserve of everything we printed)
before it got split among Zochhi's and Crazy Egor. What was left of the rest
of the warehouse went to Chessex and Zochhi and Berkeley -- as much as they
would take (which, as it happens, was all the TNE stuff and Twilight stuff all
of the miniatures rules). The rest either went to a remaindering house (where
it probably ended up on the shelves at Dollar Bill's) or to the local paper
stock salvage place (and is presumably insulation or something by now). Oh --
and the bunch of stuff the local hobby store owner -- and any local gamer who
happened by. We even gave some stuff to the UPS driver, and anybody else who
came by and seemed interested. And the landfill...

Gawd, I hated that. The worst part was walking through the warehouse in the
last week or so, listening to my footsteps on the concrete floor echoing off
the walls of the empty rooms...

Hmmm. Sorry. Got rather carried away there. 

***********************

Yeah, Marc has some stuff for sale.

Loren

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:59:20 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Old Expanses

	I believe you can find Old Expanses at two web sites (Roger Myhre's, or mine
at members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller (/sectors)?, it's been a bit). There
should hopefully be both 1120 and 1200 versions.

	If it's not there email me privately.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:09:09 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Uniforms

You wouldn't happen to have a copy of that artical from 9 would you?

> Yup. Travellers Digest #9 (I think) gave military uniforms for the
> Imperial Guard. A later Digest gave uniforms for the Terran Occupation
> Force.
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:08:02 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

At 12:23 AM 3/20/98 +0000, you wrote:
>dberry@hooked.net wrote:
>
>>Quick trivia:  What is the first canonical mention of the Vegans?
>
>Adventure 1 - The Kinuir.

He's Good!  One Kinunir is described as being presented to the Vegans as a
gift, after having its weaponry altered slightly.
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
|-------------------------------------|
| "It is not the big armies that win  |
|  battles, it is the good ones"      |
|             -Maurice de Saxe        |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:29:11 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Megatraveller Errata Available?

At 04:44 pm 3/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Anyone have the Megatraveller Errata online?  I know it *must* be
out
>there, but a cursory trav-www search doesn't turn it up in either
the MPGN
>archive, Joe Heck's archive or a sundry other places.

	It's on my site.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:13:13 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller Career Question

> I've written a Classic Traveller character generator. I've already included
> all the careers in products I have - the 6 basic ones, the 12 from Citizens
> of the Imperium, one from Dragon Magazine, the ones from the Darrian
> Modules, the Dryone Castes, and a few of my own creation. 
> 
> My question is: What other CT products have normal careers in them? (ie,
> not the extended careers like in Books 4-7 which I don't like). I'd guess
> the alien modules, as the Darrian one has some. But do any of the others?
I
> know Twilight's Peak has Dryone rules, but do any of the adventures have
> something like that?  
> 
>    Thanks!
> 
>                  Jeremy

	Well I have at least three in my JTAS books, Sword Worlders, Starport
athourity, and Irklan.  I would much like a copy of that program.  Maybe we
can work out a trade.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:24:52 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

- ----------
> From: dberry@hooked.net
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
> Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 10:53 AM
> 
> At 09:32 AM 3/19/98 -0600, you wrote:
> >> Clarke's Law.  By definition, a TL 35 piece of equipment will seem to be
> >> magic to even a sophisticated TL 15 Imperial scientist.
> >
> >	Speaking of the ancients, Does anyone have a copy of the Journal that had
> >the artical Grandfather's Worlds in it?  I think it was 47.  I would like
> >to buy it, or at least see the artical.
> 
> Challenge 47, I think you mean.. I'll have to look, but I'm pretty sure I
> have it somewhere.  The one about the "string of pearls," right?  I've been
> tempted to do that as a modern-day Bermuda Triangle type game.
> --
I am not actualy sure about the content, I have heard that it detailed the
Ancients Tech and gave several modern events that pointed to grandfathers
intervention.
> 
> +-------------------------------------+
> | Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
> |    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
> +-------------------------------------+
> | "I'm just like anybody else, I want |
> |  to be a non-conformist too."       |
> |                      -Lenny Bruce   |
> +-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:25:51 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

 
> It's beginning to worry me that the Ancient TL seems /still/ to be
> increasing. I'm sure it was given in 'Secrets of the Ancients' as 20-25,
> and two weeks ago on the list it was 30. And now it's jumped to 35!

Do you actualy have a copy of this book?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:32:23 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Stuff

> 
> Yeah, Marc has some stuff for sale.
> 
> Loren

What stuff is left?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:41:05
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #290

At 10:23 AM 19/03/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>From: "Andy Slack" <andyslack@unn.unisys.com>
>Subject: Passenger and freight costs
>
>Not sure how common that is, but I have worked on naval systems for the Far
>East whose primary purpose was piracy suppression, so I figure there are
>still pirates around. The tack the client government was taking was not to
>arm the merchantmen, but to put enough minor warships into the risk area
>that pirates would be deterred. Of course that is much easier to do in a
>small area of ocean with satnav and comms than it is in deep space...
>
>Andy
>

The piracy which governments in and around the South China Sea are worried
about is essentially seaborne mugging - board the ship, nick the payroll
and anything small and valuable and maybe kidnap the captain for ransom.

It doesnt involve stealing the ship and/or cargo for sale elsewhere (that
you do via switching the paperwork in Singapore).

Secondly, it's easier track shipping with TL10 and up sensors in and around
the 100 diameter limit of a world than it is to do with ship-based radars
in the South China Sea and Straits of Malacca.

The reluctance of governments to have heavily armed civilians around is
also Traveller - look at the proposed systems of Imperial Permits for
particle accelerators and lasers bigger than 250 MJ, for example, and the
banning of nukes in private hands.

>Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:47:19 -0500
>From: Chris Jones <Cjones@manhattanassociates.com>
>Subject: Pocket Empires
>
>   Hi, I'd like to know who, if anyone, has tried running a Pocket
>Empires campaign.  I'm considering trying it myself and would like to
>talk to some others about it.  I would appreciate knowing what to do,
>what to avoid, what's fun and what's not.  Your response either on the
>list or in private mail would be very helpful.
>
>   Chris Jones
>   Manhattan Associates, LLC
>   770-955-5533 ~1477

Last year, I played in a PE by email game. It was huge fun, but it
essentially fell over because it is a huuuge amount of work to GM.

At minimum, you will need spreadsheets to calculate GWP, expenditures and
so on.

I would also recommend using worlds with comparable sized economies -
population dominates in PE, and a Pop A world has 100 times as many people,
and thus 100 times as big an economy, as a pop 8 world.

If players are at all militarily inclined, I would also knock up a better
military system - the one in PE works, but it is more abstract than I like.

You may also consider having the players collectivly run one empire with a
couple of NPC neighbours.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:09:13 +1100
From: andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

>
>> It's beginning to worry me that the Ancient TL seems /still/ to be
>> increasing. I'm sure it was given in 'Secrets of the Ancients' as 20-25,
>> and two weeks ago on the list it was 30. And now it's jumped to 35!
>
>Do you actualy have a copy of this book?

I do, but it's been a coupla years since I went looking for it. I know
where the box it's in is though.

AS

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:46:25 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller Career Question

"Jeremy Reaban" <frankpul@stlnet.com> writes:
>I've written a Classic Traveller character generator. 
[snip]
>
>My question is: What other CT products have normal careers in them? 

Mac or PC?

If you have a Mac, or access to one, you can get every published career,
plus many home-brew ones, as part of my MegaCharacters HyperCard stack.
(Well, many of these are MT careers, but the changes are minimal - mainly
the addition of skill clusters.)

MegaCharacters also generates names, physical appearance, personality, and
motivations for all characters, making it very useful for generating
'rounded' NPCs.  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:19:21 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Items for SaleTrade

- ----------
> From: Eric Holmes <holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Items for SaleTrade
> Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 4:49 PM
> 
> Fellow Partners in J-Space:
> 
> I have two items up for sale or trade:
> 
> A Marc Miller signed copy of JTAS #16
	What info is in this issue?
> 
> A good copy of Alien Module:  Droyne   (Droh~ee-nay' for you non-ESA types)
> 
> I desire a fair condition copy of Alien Module:  Zhodani  (Zoh-dah'-nee)
> Will accept a clean photo copy, I'll pay postage via SASE.  Let me know
> estimated weight and postage.
> 
> FWIW, this is how the Haus OBERG pronounces Galanglish Vowels
> 
> A  ah
> E  ay
> I  ee
> O  oh
> U  oo  long u
> Y  ya
> OY oh~ee  like "toy"
> OI oh~ee
> AU ah~oo  like "out" or "house"
> OU oh~oo  like "Souffle"
> IA ee-ah
> IE ee
> EI ah-ee
> AI ay-ee
> 
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #294
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, March 20 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 295



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Product listing for CT (List provided)
Re: Stuff
<cringe>
Re: <cringe>
Llellewyloly
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Environmental domes
Re: Dandelions on Junidy (was Re: Environmental domes)
Re: Uniforms
Re: Vland (was Re: Lost in time)
Domed Cities Not Necessary
Starship automation (Was: X-boats)
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: Domed Cities Not Necessary
Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures
Re: Pronunciation of Regina

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:54:49 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Product listing for CT (List provided)

James Lindsay wrote:

> I may have wandered into this thread a bit late, but am I to understand
> that Marc is sitting on a virtual treasure trove of out-of-print Traveller
> stuff, and it is for sale?  Just thought I'd ask before people start
> filling Marc's emailbox with purchasing requests.

Well, if he's not, I'm going to find out fairly soon.

This list is what Marc posts periodically.  I would suggest a politley phrased
letter asking about the specific items you are interested in.  He will then
check to see what he actually has on hand and email you that list with prices,
at least that is what he did for me.  You then print that email out, right out
check, send both, then wait in anticipation until the goodies arrive.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 01:00:53 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Stuff

GDW GAMES wrote:

> The rest either went to a remaindering house (where
> it probably ended up on the shelves at Dollar Bill's) or to the local paper
> stock salvage place (and is presumably insulation or something by now). Oh --
> and the bunch of stuff the local hobby store owner -- and any local gamer who
> happened by. We even gave some stuff to the UPS driver, and anybody else who
> came by and seemed interested. And the landfill...

NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SAY IT AIN'T SOOO!

Oh my god, I'm going to cry.
You cruel, cruel, cruel . . . person.  (Is it Loren like Greene or Lauren like
Bacall but spelled different?)

Exactly how big a warehouse was this?

No!  Don't tell me.  I couldn't take it.

Oh, the humaniti!


Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:46:37 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: <cringe>

>Subject: Stuff
...
>He (and Frank and I) took what he wanted from the reserve room in the
>warehouse (the room where we stored a small reserve of everything we printed)
...
>happened by. We even gave some stuff to the UPS driver, and anybody else who
>came by and seemed interested. And the landfill...
>
>Gawd, I hated that. The worst part was walking through the warehouse in the
>last week or so, listening to my footsteps on the concrete floor echoing off
>the walls of the empty rooms...

  Well, I'm not sure about the humour and commie-pinko-subversive stuff,
but Kenji can just forget about doing horror on the TML after this one.
I know what my nightmares are going to be about tonight...

        (no, not K'kree with PMPP's, although sheep might be a problem)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:05:10 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: <cringe>

Steven Hudson wrote:

>>Gawd, I hated that. The worst part was walking through the warehouse in the
>>last week or so, listening to my footsteps on the concrete floor echoing off
>>the walls of the empty rooms...
>
>  Well, I'm not sure about the humour and commie-pinko-subversive stuff,
>but Kenji can just forget about doing horror on the TML after this one.
>I know what my nightmares are going to be about tonight...

Yeah, ditto.  What a waste!

(Thrice-damned capitalist pigdogs whose system brings such things to pass!)

>        (no, not K'kree with PMPP's, although sheep might be a problem)

Oh?  Guilty conscience?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 02:35:01 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Llellewyloly

Did someone say Llellewyloly? I think I've been sitting on this bit of work
for long enough...

- -------
Contact! Llellewyloly
The Llellewyloly of Junidy

The Llellewyloly (LEL-uh-wi-Low-lee) are a non-humanoid minor race,
originating on the planet Junidy (3202  B-434ABD-9) in the Spinward Marches.
They are known throughout the Imperium for their fancied resemblance to a
Terran weed, the Dandelion.  Little else is known about them outside the
Domain of Deneb because Llellewyloly do not travel extensively.  There has
been renewed interest since the Rebellion, however, due to the occupation of
Junidy by invading Vargr in 1116.

Background

Junidy occupies the fourth orbit around June, an early F7-V star.  June's
companion star, July, orbits June at 19.6 AU (Orbit 8), and is an old red
dwarf star (M9-D) with a long term irregularity in luminosity.  The current
cycle of irregularity caused a decrease in the hydrosphere of Junidy, which
led to the rise of land animals, and eventually, the Llellewyloly.

As July moved into the cooler portion of its cycle, Junidy's mean temperature
dropped, bringing on an ice age.  As the polar caps expanded and the sea level
dropped, many marine forms were forced to adapt to shallow water or land.  The
mobile forms were first, eventually leading to a large proportion of the
ecological niches on land being filled by bilaterally symmetrical, furred
animals.  The radially symmetrical animals (most of them five-limbed) were
last, having been only semi- to non-mobile as marine forms.

Most of the radials were Trappers or Pouncers, and were equipped with poison.
Because of this advantage, the radials survived.  Several developed greater
mobility and actually hunted, developing insulating fur from their protective
spines.  The most successful of these mobile hunters were the proto-
Llellewyloly, who hunted by waiting for prey to come close to the standing,
immobile hunter, then whipping out with a tentacle and strangling or crushing
the prey.

The crude heat sensing ability of the radials developed further in the
Llellewyloly as an analog of vision, and during the peak of the ice age,
became true vision.  The increasing scarcity of game during this period caused
the final push to intelligence and an omnivorous diet.  Most of the other
radial forms died out during the later stages of the ice age, leaving the land
dominated by four- and six-legged furred animals.  On land, only the
Llellewyloly and a few animals retain the five-limbed, radially symmetrical
form.

Society

Cooperation between Llellewyloly arose during the ice age, as increasing prey
size led to the inability of an individual to hunt effectively.  This led to a
tribal structure, where those most skilled in a given task, such as hunting or
later, foraging, performed that task for the good of the tribe.  If an
individual was of inferior skill in some area, then he would be under
supervision.  As there were a number of necessary survival skills, and no
individual could master them all, specialization was the norm. 

As their culture and intelligence developed, the earlier specialized
cooperation grew into a complex social structure.  A skillful hunter, forager,
farmer, or warrior gained respect, and was defered to in his area of
expertise, but might be ignored if not skilled in the task at hand.  This
attitude remained dominant with the rise of civilization, and spread to all
areas of expertise.

As the volume of knowledge expanded, so did the social system regarding
expertise.  Formal titles came into usage, and ignoring these titles was as
bad as giving advice outside ones own fields of expertise.  As education
improved, individuals could and did become experts, and therefore titled, in
more than one area.  This led to social confusion, as addressing a stranger
incorrectly could bring execution, despite the relative standings of the two
involved.  From this the modern system evolved.

A Llellewyloly who is improperly greeted will usually "go to flower," that is,
stand on one leg and draw the other four into akimbo.  A Llellewyloly can
remain in this position for a very long time, as it comes from their prefered
hunting technique.  This social response is not reserved for humans, as it
grew out of the violence response mentioned above.  It is a Llellewyloly's way
of ignoring an annoying person in a very obvious fashion.  Llellewyloly also
sleep and think in this position, so having a "flowered" Llellewyloly ignore
you is a rather common occurence.

When Llellewyloly meet for the first time, they will exchange names and
Titles.  Once this has been done, forgetting to use the correct Titles and
forms of address will result in the insulted Llellewyloly "going to flower."
This is the Llellewyloly equivalent of a pout.  Only long, formal apologies of
great length, or news of great import will get a "flowered" Llellewyloly to
emerge from his pout.

When the offender is Human, responses vary with individual Llellewyloly.  All
Llellewyloly have a tolerance level with regards to humans, and once that
level is passed, the Llellewyloly will "go to flower," and not stir until the
offensive Human goes away.  Some few Llellewyloly go to flower at the first
hint of human attention, but most will give a human a minute or two grace
period.  This is not always sufficient, as most humans have trouble
distinguishing individual Llellewyloly.

The humans of Junidy have learned to duplicate the pout reaction for occasions
when a Llellewyloly forgets a human title.  Because Llellewyloly vision is not
acute, the humans of Junidy use sound to indicate annoyance:  they whistle.
Llellewyloly find human attempts to whistle abominable, and society on Junidy
has adjusted to this human parallel to "going to flower."

Physiology

The Llellewyloly are a five-limbed, radially symetrical race evolved from
marine creatures analogous to Terran starfish or anenomes.  When standing
still, Llellewyloly are between two and three meters tall.

Having adapted to life on land, Llellewyloly walk on their limbs, which double
as arms when needed.  Llellewyloly are ungainly walkers at best, looking to a
human observer like a large arthritic spider.  The number of limbs a
Llellewyloly uses to walk depends on the weight he is carrying.  The more
weight carried, the more limbs used as legs.  Each limb is about two meters
long and has two elbows/knees in addition to the hip/shoulder and wrist/ankle
joints.  At the wrist, each limb splits into three smaller "tentacles," which
are also jointed twice in opposite directions.  The first joint of the limbs
and fingers bends in towards the center.  The second joints bends outward.
The fingers also have a segment about 6 cm long beyond the bones which serve
as fine manipulators.  The shoulder joint has enough freedom to allow about
180 of rotation.  The outer elbow also has some rotational freedom, allowing
fingers from different limbs to just touch across the top of the body.

Llellewyloly skin and body fur come in a wide variety of colors, with skin
ranging from blue-grey through grey and pink into deep red.  Fur is either
white, black, or both.  No Llellewyloly has ever had yellow fur as a natural
color, though some have been known to dye their fur to imitate blond humans.

The body of the Llellewyloly is about 60 centimeters across and is
approximately round.  Unlike the limbs, the body is covered with thick fur,
which insulates it from the extemely cold nights.  The fur exudes an oily
substance which aids in insulation and serves to keep predators larger than
the Llellewyloly away.  The poison glands of the original marine animal
developed to this form as the proto-Llellewyloly became mobile hunters on
land.  The oil causes an allergic reaction in all native lifeforms and in
about 10% of Solomani-descended humans.  Native animals suffer an immediate
burning skin reaction, giving even a lone Llellewyloly significant protection
in the wilds of Junidy.  The allergic reaction in humans is very similar to
that of Poison Oak or Ivy:  a red, irritating rash in areas of direct contact
with the oil, which is spreadable by scratching.  The reaction, assuming no
further contact, abates in about a week.  About 1% of Vilani or Zhodani are
affected, and Vargr are normally immune for the same reason that Poison Oak
doesn't bother Terran canines: their fur.  If Vargr attempt to bite or closely
handle a Llellewyloly, their chances of being affected are one-in-ten.

Most of the major bodily functions of the Dandies are in the body, including
hearing, speech, smell, digestion, reproduction, and the brain.  Vision is
divided between the limbs.  The skin of the Llellewyloly is much more
sensitive to heat variations than human skin.  This sensitivity approximates
crude infrared vision, with a range of about ten meters, depending on the heat
source.

As an aid in catching prey in the oceans, the skin at the junction of the
fingers of the proto-Llellewyloly was light-sensitive.  Once they moved onto
land, this gradually developed into true vision, though the distance at which
a Llellewyloly can focus one set of eyes is about one meter.  Using the eyes
from two or more limbs allows focus out to about six meters, which is almost
human norm.  Thus Llellewyloly are near-sighted by human standards.  This
handicap does not extend to the detection of motion.  Llellewyloly can sense
motion much better than most humans, and to a greater degree of accuracy.
Using only the set of eyes in one limb, a Llellewyloly can pluck a thrown coin
(or flying prey) from the air.

Speech, hearing and breathing share a set of five orifices set between the
bases of the limbs, with the arrangement similar to the human throat and
mouth.  Each orifice uses its own set of "lungs" as well.  Because of this
arrangement, a skilled Llellewyloly performer can sing a four-part harmony and
still listen to the audience.  Because their lungs and speech organs developed
in a near vacuum, Llellewyloly are capable of deafeningly loud whistles in a
human-normal atmosphere.  The complexities of human languages prevent them
from yelling much louder than a human when using Galanglic or Vilani.

Llellewyloly, having evolved in a Very Thin atmosphere, have trouble breathing
in Standard and Dense atmospheres.  They suffer from over-oxygenation, and can
literally cook themselves alive because of an overload of oxygen.  They are
capable of breathing Thin atmospheres, and can aclimatize to Standard
atmospheres with the "Low Oxygen" taint, but Llellewyloly cannot exist in a
Dense atmosphere without mechanical aid.  A filter system for Llellewyloly
costs five times normal, as it must cover all five orifices.

Faced with this problem, the humans of Junidy began a selective breeding
program among the Llellewyloly in 672.  Their goal was to produce a strain of
Dandie that could more readily handle high concentrations of oxygen.
Solomani-trained genegineers were brought to the project in 721, and by 750
announced limited success.  A racial equality crisis in 764 undid most of the
project, however, as the city-bred Llellewyloly fled back into the wilds in
protest.  When the crisis was resolved in 765, very few of the city-bred
returned and nearly all had bred with the rural populations, spreading their
high pressure tolerance to most of the next generation at the cost of diluting
it's occurence. Currently, some 1.5% of all Llellewyloly are capable of short-
term (several hours) exposure to Standard atmospheres (or to Dense atmospheres
with a Low Oxygen taint) before oxygen overload sets in.

An opening at the base of the body serves for both feeding and waste disposal.
The sense of smell is concentrated in five short fronds hanging around the
mouth, which contact food and detect airborne odors.  The Llellewyloly have no
independent taste sense, depending on their sense of smell entirely.  As
compensation for this, the stomach lining is very sensitive to irregular
foodstuffs, making this race one of the most finicky in its eating habits.
The Llellewyloly are discrete about waste disposal, having found human
household plumbing to be one our most useful inventions.

Reproduction

All individual Llellewyloly are bisexual, and can function in both male and
female roles simultaneously.  The original water-borne reproduction system has
not truly adapted to land, so Llellewyloly communities always have water
nearby.  The young develop in a ring of pouches around the mouth, then later
crawl into their parents' fur.  Because of their fine sense of balance, no
parent can ignore or forget its children, who are ready for solid food as soon
as they emerge from their pouches.  "Toilet-training" young Llellewyloly is a
tedious job, and adults with dignified professions will often pass their
children on to some more tolerant and less important adult.  A newly conceived
Llellewyloly spends three standard months in its pouch, and about a standard
year in the fur of its parent, after which it can walk and feed itself on the
ground, and is too heavy to carry.  Adult size is attained in five standard
years.

Llellewyloly have no institution of marriage as such, but do engage in
protracted courting routines for many of the same reasons as humans.
Potential parental partners go through lengthy self-inflicted compatibility
tests before actual reproduction, and many find the process so humiliating
that they effectively pair for life, but this is not universal by any means.
Multiple "marriages" and "orgy groups" are not uncommon (and became more
popular after the Dandies learned about Hiver "Ambassadors" and the reasoning
behind them).

While many Dandies have a "biological clock" which affects their urge to
reproduce, and most Dandies attach a fair amount of emotion to reproduction,
the act itself lacks the physical aspects common to mammalian reproduction.
Touching is optional, in fact, so long as the parents-to-be share a pool. 

Playing the Llellewyloly

The native culture of the Llellewyloly has created a race of strong orators
and good listeners.  In his area of expertise a Dandie can talk
authoritatively for hours.  Similarly, a Dandie who needs to listen will do so
for as long as needed.  The humans who settled Junidy quickly discovered that
Dandies could absorb information with astonishing accuracy and make use of
that information just as quickly.  Early attempts at a human-run government
failed due to the fact that the Llellewyloly were absorbing technological
information so quickly that they couldn't be kept out of things.

In some ways, getting to know a Dandie is like getting to know a Vargr.  If he
has been informed of your "Titles", a Dandie will treat you with respect in
those areas, automatically take the initiative in the areas where his Titles
are superior, and be neutral otherwise.  Because of this, Vargr are terribly
confused by Llellewyloly, who accept low Charisma in some situations, demand
high Charisma in others, and speak as equals the rest of the time.

Beyond the reactions determined by Title, Llellewyloly are as varied as humans
in their personalities.  This includes their reactions to the universal
nickname "Dandie."

Llellewyloly NPCs
	Llellewyloly NPCs encountered away from Junidy will always have high-
pressure-tolerant genes, as these are able to function more readily away from
the homeworld.

"Barbarian"

"Scientist"

Llellewyloly Player Characters (TNE)
	All Llellewyloly are born on Junidy.  Any Llellewyloly PC is assumed to be
high-pressure-tolerant, though a normal Llelewyloly may be played if so
desired.
	Llellewyloly vary less than many races in certain areas.  STR is not rolled
in the usual fashion, but is rolled using a rounded-down d3 like that used to
generate Initiative, with a modifier of +2.  This produces results between 3
and 5.  AGL and CON are generated normally on 2d6-1, with no modifiers for
homeworld.  INT and EDU are also generated normally, with an EDU score of 4 or
less indicating a "barbarian" upbringing.  CHR is generated normally.
	No Llellewyloly has ever shown signs of Psionic Potential.
	Social Standing among Llellewyloly is a complex and variable thing, changing
more rapidly than even Vargr are used to.  Each Dandie has a permanent Social
Standing equal to his highest Skill (not Asset), and a "situational" Social
Standing equal to its score in the Skill most useful in that situation.  In
addition, a "Barbarian" will have an effective permanent Social Standing of
half its normal level while in a city, as will "Scientists" in the country.
Only if one of these "out-of-place" Llellewyloly proves to have the Skill for
the situation will it be accorded its full Standing.
	Llellewyloly may follow nearly any of the standard Careers listed in the TNE
rulebook, subject to the normal characteristic and homeworld prerequisites.
Being of "barbarian" birth does not affect career choices.
	Because of their unique breathing requirements Llellewyloly acquire
Environment Suit skill more slowly, treating 2 levels acquired as only 1 level
of skill.  All Llellewyloly start with Acrobat-2 as one of their Background
skills, with the others being determined by upbringing. Rural ("barbarian")
Llellewyloly have a TL 3 society, while the city Dandies are TL 10.
	Llellewyloly may choose, either as a Background skill or as part of the
Interpersonal cluster, the "Patience (CHR)" skill.  This skill represents the
Dandy's tolerance for and patience with aliens, and is rolled whenever a human
or other alien fails to observe Llellewyloly social conventions of Title
(Llellewyloly have no patience with their own species). Llellewyloly
characters with a Patience Asset of 10 or higher are sufficiently cosmopolitan
and self-assured that they may ignore violations of Title completely while
among aliens.
	A Llellewyloly's body has CONx4 hit points, but suffers from firearms just as
the human head does (double damage; stunning; etc.). Each limb has points
equal to CON, which suffer as do human arms. If three or more limbs are
incapacitated, the injured Llellewyloly will be immobile, as well.

- -----
Copyright 1994, James Kundert

- -----

 As a footnote, I toyed with several pronounciations for "Llellewyloly" and
ended up with the one shown at the beginning of this post for a variety of
reasons, most of which have to due with the ease of speaking the name. The
name just doesn't work if Spanish rules are used, and I don't know Welsh rules
well enough to really have an opinion...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:31:56 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

On 19 Mar 98, dberry@hooked.net disseminated foul capitalist 
propaganda by writing:

<snip>
> Ah! A fellow CORPSe!  Some day Real Soon Now I'm going to have my
> conversion page up for Traveller/CORPS

Heh. We, CORPSes, will take over the RPG world. Someday, anyway. ;> 

I thought about using CORPS for Shadowrun, but my SR GM is too lazy 
to change systems now... ;>

> >And Ancients, of course. ;> But IMC Ancients are capable of magic. 
> 
> Clarke's Law.  By definition, a TL 35 piece of equipment will seem
> to be magic to even a sophisticated TL 15 Imperial scientist. --

Actually, no, they use a somewhat more sophisticated for of psionics. 
IMC, there's only ESP-type psionics, but Ancients have much more 
powerful form of psi that uses life-energy of the entire ecosystem, 
which allows them to manipulate physical stuff. It also sucks in 
space. (Figuratively and literally - it drains the 'mage's' 
lifeforce. That's why Ancients use giant eco-ships, which are still 
extremely vulnerable to technical monstrosities of Descendants (aka 
Humaniti). But their planets are practically impregnable - even to 
near-c rocks ;>>.)

Basically, they created Humaniti to deal with a problem that could 
not be resolved with magic - since they had their magic, the 
incentive to develop complicated technologies was null, and magically 
powered devices are not very effective in the void of space. 

Maybe someday I'll translate some of my stuff into English and post 
it on the WWW... 

(BTW: And it all started out when I wanted to begin a Hard-SF Star 
Wars campaign using CORPS. Sigh.)


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
  Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+ 
  PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
    You are trying to say I should trust him? - Random 
I am trying to say that you have no choice. - Corwin 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:24:06 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Environmental domes

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote

> I'm doing some work on Junidy/Aramis. The two prime concerns for humans
> living on Junidy is that the atmosphere is very thin and that the nights
> get really, really cold. So I decided that they made extensive use of big,
> self-sealing environmental domes to cover their cities and possibly also
> some agricultural areas  Now,
> Junidy is TL 9, not too far in advance of our own, though a mature TL 9,
> which might make quite a difference. Anyway, does anyone know of any rules
> to dertemine the maximum practical size of such domes? And perhaps their
> cost? 

If the domes are built without a solid structure and simply rely on
their higher internal pressure to keep them solid they will be much
lighter and cheaper.  Therefore this seems to me to be the way they are
most likely built.

If you want to be really degenerate you could use the canonical
Traveller rules for building lighter than air craft to determine the
weight and cost per square meter of this sort of "construction" by
building the building as an blimp & just taking away the propullsion
elements.  They are in FF&S 1.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:42:17 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Dandelions on Junidy (was Re: Environmental domes)

dberry@hooked.net wrote

> At 01:00 PM 3/19/98 +0100, Hans wrote:
> 
> >Was it the competition with the Llellewyloly that made them
> >breed like rabbits?

> When there is a native species, I always assume that the natives are
> counted in the Population number.  Perhaps there are 10 billion welsh
> dandelions and four billion humans.

Junidy has about 14 billion humans and about 14 billion of the native
Llellewyloly, or Dandelions (circa 1105).  CT's The Traveller Adventure
says (pg 88) "its population of 28 billion is about evenly split between
humans (who began to settle here in about 350) and the Llellewyloly
(called by humans Dandelions or Dandies), an intelligent race native to
the world."

Junidys population continues to grow after this point.  TNE's Regency
Sourcebook indicates that in 1117 its population was thirtysomething
billion and by 1202 was fourtysomething billion (with 10% + Vargr as
part of that population), this would tend to indicate a steadily or even
rapidly growing population. 

Junidy has a Non Charismatic Dictatorhip for a government (B) and
paramilitary law enforcement (law level D, just one step short of the
full fledged police state you see at Law Level E (MT Referes Manual)) so
it might well have one of those pro nativity "Breed rapidly so that your
children may serve the motherland." type policies.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:46:44 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Uniforms

Does anyone on the list know if Chessex ever made the Imperial Navy
Flight Jacket they were planning to make, and soliciting distributirs
for, almost 1 year ago ?

It was to have been $100 US and size L only.  I can't recall the
anounced color scheme. It was to have been a synthetic jacket with the
Imperial Sunburst on the back & some writing on it as well (I did not
pay it much attention since I wear a Medium).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:57:06 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Vland (was Re: Lost in time)

Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote

> On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> > 1) Get hold of Milieu O campaign (the hardback version). Not only 
> > does it contain the corrected maps, it has a vast amount of useful 
> > information on the era.

> I have one question about the hardcover:  is the population digit of 5 
> for Vland correct?  Is my memory failing me?
> If it is 5, does anybody know what happened to all those poor Vilani?

Obviously they all ate each other during the Long Night.

<ducks quickly>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:16:38 -0000
From: "Justin Durkan" <jdurkan@iol.ie>
Subject: Domed Cities Not Necessary

If any of you vist Minneapolis/St-Paul you will see a neat solution to the
thin/tainted atmosphere problem typicall solved with domed cities. In
St-Paul all the downtown buildings are interconnected by walkways on the
first floor. You can shop, do lunch, see a movie etc. all without going
outside. The St. Paul atmosphere is not very tainted and isn't thin but is
very-very cold for a good fraction of the year.

Seal the windows and you have a typcical TL8-10 thin/tainted atmosphere
large settlement.

/Justin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 05:43:38 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Starship automation (Was: X-boats)

Scott Ellsworth sez,

>>Why couldn't an onboard computer resolve said "Flutter"?
>
>You have just asked the fatal question - why do they have people do
>ANYTHING in Traveller, once TL hits a certain point.  Robots and computers
>are getting very cheap, very fast, so either you find a handwave to say
>that we will hit a wall stopping this process, or you have a lot of useless
>people running around.
>I came up with the following noncanonical handwaves for star crew.
[handwave snipped]

IMTU, I simply assume that, while you can build a robot that's physically
capable of doing the work of a crewmember, it's very expensive to produce a
robot smart enough and flexible enough to do the job as well as a human
would. Sure, you could make the robots conscious beings, and thus as
capable as a human, but as soon as you make them conscious they start
forming civil rights groups and labour unions, demanding a decent wage and
benefits and free annual maintenance and generally becoming just as
expensive as human crews, if not more so.

The cool thing with this solution is that it gives me an excuse to have
lots of synthetic people in the game, just ordinary citizens taking home
their paychecks like anybody else, except that they're assembled in
factories instead of in wombs...

Best,

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 05:43:32 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

Harold D. Hale <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu> sez,

>Doug Berry wrote:
>
>>Travellers' Digest 14 or 15 gave extensive coverage to Earth.
>
>   IIRC, it was TD 13, and the bit about the polar caps melting should be
>cheerfully ignored, as should the bit about the Great Pyramids getting drown
>(there's science-fiction and then there is fantasy...).  Most everything
>else is quite good.

Why is this fantasy? If the West Antarctic Ice Sheet breaks up - something
many glaciologists think is a very real possibility for the next century -
the oceans would rise about 60 meters. More if the Greenland ice sheet
follows suit, which seems plausible according to the scenarios I've read
(Kim Stanley Robinson's _Green Mars_ and _Blue Mars_ examine this
possibility, for instance).

I don't have altitude data for Cairo at hand, but it's situated just inland
from the Nile Delta, i.e. not too far above sea level. So I suspect the
pyramids would indeed get wet if the oceans rose by 60m.

For comparison, here in downtown Montreal I'm only a bit over 50m above sea
level. Most of this island would end up under water, and we're several
hundred kilometers from the ocean!

Best,

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:35:41 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Domed Cities Not Necessary

>If any of you vist Minneapolis/St-Paul you will see a neat solution to the
>thin/tainted atmosphere problem typicall solved with domed cities. In
>St-Paul all the downtown buildings are interconnected by walkways on the
>first floor. You can shop, do lunch, see a movie etc. all without going
>outside. The St. Paul atmosphere is not very tainted and isn't thin but is
>very-very cold for a good fraction of the year.

The surface area that need be airtight is much higher than using a dome so
I'd say domes would be more reasonable unless there's no pressure
differential and all you need is some filters.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:42:09 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures

On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Kagehira wrote:

> 	It's currently in the plans to provide ship deckplans in a rescaleable
> format, electronically.
> 	This way you can go to your local reprographics shop and get it printed out
> on large forms (like C & D size paper), as well as your current printer.
> 
The best way would be a .dxf CAD-Format or a .wmf Format for Windows, as
these are ubiquitous. (Don't know enough about .pdf's) I used the .wmf
format for some Faction and Megacorp Logo Files. 

(now on my website, http.//www.uni-koeln.de/~acp82/Ancients/software.html)

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:48:55 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Regina

On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Philip ESPI wrote:

> Douglas Sinclair wrote:
> 
> > Just to throw more fuel on the fire, there's a city in Saskatchewan
> > called
> > Regina.  It's pronounced:
> > re - REgarding
> > gi - GIant
> > na - NAtural
> 
>   Doesn't that sound like "vagina" ?
> 
I think you don't know the German pronuciation of that word.
It's like (see below ...)

> I definetly prefer the sound of "re-guee-na"

BTW, Regina is a female prename not so rare in my country.

L.A.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #295
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, March 20 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 296



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures
Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Re: Unusual settings & campaigns
Re: Jump space
Re: Domed Cities Not Necessary
Re: Stutterwarp in FF&S 1
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Uniforms
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Invasion: Junidy!
Re: X-boats
PE Stats for the whole Imperium
Pocket Empire PBEM Software
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: Classic Traveller Career Question
Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures
Population expansion (Was: Environmental domes)
Re: Environmental domes
Re: Passenger and freight costs
Re: X-boats

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:01:54 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures

>The best way would be a .dxf CAD-Format or a .wmf Format for Windows, as
>these are ubiquitous. (Don't know enough about .pdf's) I used the .wmf
>format for some Faction and Megacorp Logo Files.
>
>(now on my website, http.//www.uni-koeln.de/~acp82/Ancients/software.html)
>
>L.A.

DXF sucks as it is basically a 3D graphics format without linewidth, text
comments etc (DXF also sucks as 3D format but that's off topic).
Use PDF as they're crossplatform and can be produced by any application
capable of printing (you basically print to a virtual printer that creates
the PDF.

Postscript dumps might work as well but there are platform differances and
most home users have no postscript printers.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:09:09 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Volker A. Greimann wrote:

> Steve Daniels schrieb:
> > 
> > Mr. Dennis, meet Mr. Plasma Cannon.
> > Mr. Plasma Cannon, meet Mr. Dennis.

> Splurt! Damn, there goes the Earl Grey....
 
ROTFL. The second got even better than the first ...
Can we enhance this?

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:15:13 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Steve Daniels wrote:

> "Give me some Peacemaker ammo."
> "Peacemaker?  We have no weapon or ammunition by that designation?"
> "Come on, desk jockey.  I need 1 gross of thumpers for my Peacemaker."
> "Thumpers?  <sigh> State your weapon designation, serial number and permit
> number."
[snip]

May I put that to my Trav Website? I'm a collector of those - if you know
more such stories ... (*grin*)

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:23:07 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Unusual settings & campaigns

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Anders Lindborg wrote:

> Has anyone on the list used the Traveller rules
> system or portions of it for playing in settings
> or campaigns very unlike the standard Traveller
> settings? I'm thinking of campaigns that take 
> place in a SF environment that works like the
> Traveller setting, but where the political and
> social background is different.

Why not do unlike settings within the Traveller setting? I remember the
Haunted House Adventure played last with my group ... and the next will
get them into a Spy vs Spy story - but I am dreaming of a situation which
brings them onto a low-tech world like Earth's middle age, but with a
magocracy that uses high-level psionics and bred their own dragons (a new
breed of the crasted Jabberwock, maybe?)
My players shall believe they're no more in Traveller, but they landed on
an AD&D world .... would Algine (S. Marches, red zone declared by the
Scouts) be a nice place for that?

But you are free to build your own world using trav rules. That comes
often.

> Friends of mine have used the Traveller system to
> referee horror and near-future scenarios.

see above.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:39:29 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Jump space

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, jvhinkel wrote:

> I was running a game Saturday and one of the players wanted to kill the
> engine while in jump space, drop out into normal space and flee the ship.
> 
> What happens when the jump engines are cut in  jump space ?
> 
> Does the ship drop out to "Normal Space"?
 
Uh-oh, I think we've written much about Jump themes. But I'll try:

AFAIK, the last postings were about the fact that tha Jump drives
maintain the Jump bubble while in J-Space. If they are deactivated, the
Bubble collapses (slowly), which means that it is unlikely to survive
until the point the ship falls out of Jump space - if ever.

Another point: It won't be a good idea to flee a ship while lightyears
away from the nearest stars. Flee with what? another Jump-capable ship? I
think that ought to be a battle rider.

Another question comes to me now: The Battle of Two Suns (4th Frontier
War) was fought at a point between two stars (world hexes). Was reason did
the fleets have to meet there?

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:41:18 +0000
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Domed Cities Not Necessary

Anders Backman wrote:
> > If any of you vist Minneapolis/St-Paul you will see a neat solution
> > to the thin/tainted atmosphere problem typicall solved with domed
> > cities. In St-Paul all the downtown buildings are interconnected by
> > walkways on the first floor. You can shop, do lunch, see a movie
> > etc. all without going outside. The St. Paul atmosphere is not very
> > tainted and isn't thin but is very-very cold for a good fraction of
> > the year.
>
> The surface area that need be airtight is much higher than using a
> dome so I'd say domes would be more reasonable unless there's no
> pressure differential and all you need is some filters.

Calgary (Alberta) has the same thing.

While it is true that the building surface area would be  greater
than a dome there are a number of advantages which  would  offset
this.

First the 'modular' nature of the non-dome  approach  allows  for
greater saftety.  Should there be an failure in the  system  (due
to accident, sabotage, poor construction,  or  poor  maintenance)
then only one building (or even only 1 floor of that building) is
at risk ... as opposed to an entire dome.

Second, cities are rarely built in one go but  slowly  grow  over
time.  A city dome would be a huge engineering feat  representing
"a substantial dollar investment".  Separate buildings  could  be
erected on a need-for basis thus both  spreading  the  cost  over
time and  giving  a  more  immediate  payback  as  buildings  are
finished quickly.  City  founders  may  find  it  easier  to  get
financial backing for a non-dome community.



Regards PLST
<The tagless one>
___________________________________
To sign up for a free email account, visit http://www.postmaster.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 13:39:21 
From: "Stephan Aspridis" <Stephan.Aspridis@stud.uni-hannover.de>
Subject: Re: Stutterwarp in FF&S 1

>"Stutterwarp efficiency is equal to the cube root of (megawattage of the
>ship power plant / mass of the ship in tons) multiplied by a constant.  In
>most cases, this constant is 14.25, but varies slightly with the technology
>used to build the stutter drive."
>
>In the ship listings on pp. 28-35, efficiency varies from 2.076 to 4.068,
>while range is always 7.7ly.
>
>In essence, the data given in FF&S 1 *is* from Traveller:2300.
>
Yep, I think I found the mistake. 2300AD uses light years and whoever wrote FF&S 1 
failed to recognize that. The formula is essentially the same, yet it uses parsecs. No 
wonder the drive was too fast by a factor of about 3.2616...

Ciao,
Stephan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:52:48 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Leszek Karlik, aka Mike wrote:

> Well, I'm preparing to run a CORPS campaign in my own SF world that 
> borrows heavily from Traveller (kinda like Traveller meets Shadowrun) 
> - jump drives that have a set jump time (I used the parabolic 
> frictionless underground tunnel analogy - and please, Mr. Kenji, 
> would you refrain from any comments on that one? ;)), no FTL commo, 
> psionics and large warships with no "starfighters" to speak of. 
> 
> And Ancients, of course. ;> But IMC Ancients are capable of magic. 

Hm. 'Our' Ancients are capable of psionics and high tech. How different
will magic be from that? I don't think I have to cite here.

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:57:19 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Uniforms

On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, talisman wrote:

> I am trying to come up with a costume for a con, and I was wondering if
> there were any official designs for Imperial marine officer's dress
> uniforms?

The only one I know of is the Huscarles Badge from the JTAS.
There weren't much drawings of marines in the books, but the Scouts had
been shown in some pictures (also as tailored vacc suits in the equipment
detail sheets).

L.A. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:03:06 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, talisman wrote:

> > Clarke's Law.  By definition, a TL 35 piece of equipment will seem to be
> > magic to even a sophisticated TL 15 Imperial scientist.

That's not *Clarke's Law*, this was:
If a young, unknown scientist say something does work, he will be right.
If an elder, known scientist says something doesn't work, he will be false.

Or so ... (had to translate it back from german)

> 	Speaking of the ancients, Does anyone have a copy of the Journal that had
> the artical Grandfather's Worlds in it?  I think it was 47.  I would like
> to buy it, or at least see the artical.
 
REFEREES ONLY

That is a Challenge Article I have got. But it was only about the hidden
Braykossa System at Regina, which is interesting enough. This also gives 
an interesting campaign, a kind of P.J. Farmer's "The World of Tiers".

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:50:23 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Invasion: Junidy!

First of all, a big 'Well done!' for the whole description of the Llellewyloly.
You should make an effort to get it published, so that the rest of us can draw
on it for our own articles (As I understand it, as long as it is not part of
the official Traveller Universe we'd be violating copyright if we, say, wrote
an adventure set on Junidy and based the Llellewyloly on your article).

Anyway, good work. Mostly. One small point, however...

GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com> writes:

>There has been renewed interest since the Rebellion, however, due to the
>occupation of Junidy by invading Vargr in 1116.

I don't know if you got this from "The Regency Sourcebook". If you did, then
you're not at fault, of course. But the RS is. Have you considered the force
it would take to defeat the defenses of 28 billion people? Not to mention
the number of troops you'd need to KEEP them occupied? And then there's the
whole notion that Norris would allow anyone to attack any planet in his
domain without reacting (This point applies to any world in the Domain of
Deneb occupied by Vargr or Aslans, btw.). It's certainly not the impression
I get of Norris from reading about him.

 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:13:28 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Joe Pettit writes:
>Anders Backman wrote:
> 
>>>Quite right. My own preferred explanation (non-canon warning!) is that in
>>>a few percent of all jumps (something like 1 in 36 ;-) the jump field
>>>develops an unpredictable flutter some time during the journey. Nothing a
>>>competent, or even semi-competent, engineer can't handle
>>
>>Pretty good handwave there except that it doesn't explain why a competent,
>>or even semi-competent Engineer bot cannot handle it.

I assume that a robot with 'Skill-X' is capable of handling 95% of all
situations requiring 'Skill-X' without human supervision and 100% of all
such situations with human supervision. These jump field flutters just
happen to be among the 5%.

>>Is it psionic in nature or what?

I hadn't thought of that, but that's an excellent handwave. Whenever you need
to explain something away and don't want the new explanation to have further
ramifications, use magic (or, in this case, the Traveller equivalent of
magic).
 
>Or a vampire ship from TNE?

Ouch! Yes, another point I hadn't considered, since I don't play in a TNE
universe. Well, IMTU I have a ship with an intelligent computer (the last
ship built on Darrian before the _Maghiz_, an experimental scout ship)
jumping around, so obviously I must believe that a true AI can deal with
these flutters. But you need a TL 17 AI to do it, so it's not a problem in
the normal TU. There! That also accounts for vampire ships. 

>It really breaks down into two theories:

It breaks down to observable phenomena: In the Traveller Universe unmanned
ships are possible, but rare; manned ships are the norm. Therefore manned
ships are able to outperform unmanned ships. Any set of rules that makes
unmanned ships capable of outperforming manned ships must therefore be
failing to account for something.

>An important note is that xboat message torps wouldn't affect the Traveller
>universe much at all (except having a cheaper/moderately faster
>communication).

Not if you postulate that they are impossible to construct prior to the late
11th Century or that they are more expensive in the long run than X-boats
(or both). But if they are both possible and cheaper than X-boats in 600,
then I'd say you have to stretch canon to the breaking point to explain the
X-boat setup.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:13:32 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: PE Stats for the whole Imperium

Since two people have asked, I'll re-post this publically.

You can find PE stats for the whole Imperium at
     ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/trav/pe.zip
These are in comma-and-quote format which should be importable by almost
anything.
They were generated using the Traveller Tools Group java code from the
Galactic database. Infrastructure was assumed to have been improved to the
maximum potential by 1100.
  I'm considering doing a similar dump for TCS stats if there is interest
(reply PRIVATELY).
           Jo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:18:49 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Pocket Empire PBEM Software

Greeetings,
     Some time ago I announced that I had produced add-in software for
Galactic to do the calculations and roll-up and roll-out for managing a
PBEM Pocket Empire game. I put it up for beta testing on
ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/pesec.zip (although I may have the
address confused with the above message, pe.zip).
     I got absolutely zero response.
     I'm happy to run a Pocket Empire PBEM using this software. But it has
to be tested first. I've tested as much of the basics as I have had time
for. If you want a PE PBEM, get Galactic, put the software in, and make
sure you can run it. Send me the bugs.
     Cheers,
          Jo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:25:58 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

Glenn Grant writes:

>>   IIRC, it was TD 13, and the bit about the polar caps melting should be
>>cheerfully ignored, as should the bit about the Great Pyramids getting drown
>>(there's science-fiction and then there is fantasy...).  Most everything
>>else is quite good.
>
>Why is this fantasy? If the West Antarctic Ice Sheet breaks up - something
>many glaciologists think is a very real possibility for the next century -
>the oceans would rise about 60 meters. 

   Many glaciologists also believe that we are headed for a new ice age.
*Most* glaciologists aren't sure and want more data.  Bottomline is that it
isn't going to happen without significant additional global warming, and
that isn't going to happen if future history pans out as Traveller indicates.

   Why?

   1) increasing awareness that global warming *might* be a problem

   2) the development weather and climate control technology

   3) [and most importantly] the development of fusion power sometime early
next century

   I'm not sure why the DGP author(s) insisted on melting the ice caps, the
only conclusion that I've been able to reach so far is that classic
Traveller (IIRC Book 6: Scouts) listed in average temperature of Earth as 15
degrees C, which is of course around 3 degrees C too high.  To explain this
the DGP author(s) came up with the nonsense about melting ice caps.

   BTW, I'm curious where you get the 60 meter figure for the sea level
rise.  The figure I saw was much less than that.

Regards,

Harold

P.S.  In the *real* world, where there is no guarantee of fusion power, the
bottomline on global warming is that it is a very gradual process that is
not easily reversed.  The increasing level of carbon dioxide in the
atmosphere probably contributes to global warming, but to what extent it
does so in Earth's extremely complex ecosphere scientists do *not* know with
any certainty (though it is easy to find a PhD who will give a theory).
Estimates range from negligible to extremely serious--I've even seen one
theory that states that it will cause global *cooling*.

   Problem is, by the time we get all this sorted out and *if* global
warming is a real, serious threat and not some eco-socialist bogeyman it
will probably be too late to do anything about it without radically changing
the way we live (and then it may still be too late).  Should we listen to
everything that environmental alarmists say?  Absolutely, just as we should
listen to everything that those that oppose them say.  But do so with a
critical ear, much of what is being presented out there as fact is usually
theory and in many cases is based on exaggerated projects or flawed data.
Also be wary of those who pretend to be "doing what is right for humanity"
or "right for the country", when in reality they have a political agenda
they are trying to advance--and that goes for both sides of the political
spectrum.  BS detectors on maximum, Mr. Spock.

   I'm through digressing (again) now....

- --h

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:46:05 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller Career Question

- ----------
> From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Classic Traveller Career Question
> Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 10:46 PM
> 
> "Jeremy Reaban" <frankpul@stlnet.com> writes:
> >I've written a Classic Traveller character generator. 
> [snip]
> >
> >My question is: What other CT products have normal careers in them? 
> 
> Mac or PC?
> 
> If you have a Mac, or access to one, you can get every published career,
> plus many home-brew ones, as part of my MegaCharacters HyperCard stack.
> (Well, many of these are MT careers, but the changes are minimal - mainly
> the addition of skill clusters.)
> 
> MegaCharacters also generates names, physical appearance, personality,
and
> motivations for all characters, making it very useful for generating
> 'rounded' NPCs.  
> 

	Any one gonna put this out for the PC?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:51:15 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures

I made a modle of a scout currier out of cardboard and used a hand drawn
deck plan for the layout.  I found the I could make the hand drawn plan any
size I wanted to, just by erasing a little bit.
	
	
HEHEHE

Seriously, if you guys get an easy way to make deck plans with, say, MS
Paint I would love to hear about it.
 

- ----------
> From: Anders Backman <anders.backman@aniware.se>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures
> Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 6:01 AM
> 
> >The best way would be a .dxf CAD-Format or a .wmf Format for Windows, as
> >these are ubiquitous. (Don't know enough about .pdf's) I used the .wmf
> >format for some Faction and Megacorp Logo Files.
> >
> >(now on my website,
http.//www.uni-koeln.de/~acp82/Ancients/software.html)
> >
> >L.A.
> 
> DXF sucks as it is basically a 3D graphics format without linewidth, text
> comments etc (DXF also sucks as 3D format but that's off topic).
> Use PDF as they're crossplatform and can be produced by any application
> capable of printing (you basically print to a virtual printer that
creates
> the PDF.
> 
> Postscript dumps might work as well but there are platform differances
and
> most home users have no postscript printers.
> 
> 
> /Anders Backman
> Aniware AB
> anders.backman@aniware.se
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:53:36 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Population expansion (Was: Environmental domes)

Kenji Schwarz writes:

>Hans Ranke Madsen wrote:
>[snip]
>>A few more questions: Would underground cities be more plausible than
>>environmental domes? There are 14 billion humans living on Junidy. What
>>would make people settle a world where they can't breathe freely in
>>preference to neighboring worlds where they can? It can't be the natives,
>>because historically the humans settled areas empty of natives to begin
>>with. Some natural resource? Something enabling 28 billion sophonts to
>>make a comfortable living? Or did the Junidan humans just have a
>>radically different attitude to birth control than most other space age
>>humans? Was it the competition with the Llellewyloly that made them
>>breed like rabbits?
> 
>No, it's simply the primitive, mindless instincts that lower primates have.
>You all breed like rats, and are genetically programmed to do so.
 
And Jo Grant writes something similar:

>You don't need that high a birth rate to achieve that size. Say 1 million
>people settled there. If they doubled their population every 50 years
>that's only 800 years to get to 28 billion.

You both miss the point. In the Traveller universe people (and that includes
all sophont races, even the Aslans) generally _don't_ breed like that. In
1100 the average population level is 5. That's barely enough to sustain a
viable population, if some of the theories I've heard are true. Even the
worlds that do have billions of people have often had so long to get to
that figure that their population expansion rates are pitifully low. Junidy
can easily get to 28 billion in 800 years. True. But what about Towers,
right next door to Junidy and with a much better environment? If they
started with the same million you assume for Junidy (that's a very large
initial colony, btw.), then their population expansion must be measured in
a few percent per decade... Look at Darrian. Setting their population at
the time of the _Maghiz_ at level 8, low for a planet that is said to have
experienced population pressures, and taking an 80% reduction into account
and assuming a slow growth during the recovery period, I still get a
figure for 55 that requires a population expansion of less than 8% per
_century_ to be only 2 billion in 1100.

No, in the Traveller Universe unrestricted breeding is the exception, not
the norm. (of course, one should not really assume a uniform expansion rate.
It's much more likely that new colonies expand rapidly to some comfortable
figure and then stop expanding at all, or very nearly. Only thing is, that
comfortable figure should IMO be something a lot higher than 900,000 people!)

My own explanation is that the optimum size of a society is about 100
million, varying somewhat with local conditions. IMTU high-population
worlds don't produce as much over and about basic necessities as medium
population planets do (on a per capita basis, that is; a high-population
planet still out-produces a medium-population planets, just not linearly).
On the average the naval budgets of pop 9 planets have a 50% penalty and
pop 10 planets a 75% penalty. That makes them respectively 5 and 25 times
as powerful as pop 8 planets rather than 10 and 100, which helps to
reduce their influence.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:59:33 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Environmental domes

Jo Grant writes:

(Thanks for the response, Jo.)
 
>>What would make people settle a world where they can't breathe freely
>Like Los Angeles? :-)

You mean Los Angeles had smog back when the first settlers arrived there?
 
>People generate their own reason for existing. In generally I assumed that
>Space Trade is only a minor factor and that most worlds can be considered
>closed trading communities. It is like, what enables 5 billion sophonts to
>make a comfortable living on Earth? We are our own market. You don't need
>some overriding import/export commodity to drive your economy.

We didn't have any choice about whether to live here or on the vastly
more desirable planet in the next solar system. The original Junidan
settlers presumably did. Or did they?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:07:38 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Passenger and freight costs

Andy Slack writes:
><<Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote:
>The piracy issue is IMO very very marginal - for a start, piracy will be
>about as common in the 3I as it is today.
>>>
> 
>Not sure how common that is, but I have worked on naval systems for the Far
>East whose primary purpose was piracy suppression, so I figure there are
>still pirates around.

Pirates? Technically speaking, perhaps, but how many of those "pirates"
sailed in ships costing the same or more as their victims, took the ship
as a prize (in full view of vitnesses) and sailed it off somewhere to sell
it? How many of them even captured the whole cargo and sailed off with it?

>The tack the client government was taking was not to arm the merchantmen,
>but to put enough minor warships into the risk area that pirates would be
>deterred. Of course that is much easier to do in a small area of ocean
>with satnav and comms than it is in deep space...

True, but then, most merchants wouldn't be found in deep space, now would
they? They'd be found at the 100 diameter limit of planets or (arguably)
some Gas Giants). Much easier to patrol with a few space ships than an
ocean with surface ships... 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "Even sub-lieutenants are God's creatures,
         though it is hard to believe it sometimes."
                        Commander Ted Walker
                   "Secret Water" by Arthur Ransome

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:13:27 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Joe Pettit writes:

>Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
>>My own preferred explanation (non-canon warning!) is that in
>>a few percent of all jumps (something like 1 in 36 ;-) the jump field
>>develops an unpredictable flutter some time during the journey. Nothing a
>>competent, or even semi-competent, engineer can't handle, but fatal if it
>>isn't corrected
> 
>Why couldn't an onboard computer resolve said "Flutter"?

Because if they could, most ships would be automated, and we know for a
fact that that is not the case. Q.E.D ;-).

(See other postings for more handwaves.)
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #296
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, March 20 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 297



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: X-boats
Re: Product listing for CT (List provided)
Re: Trav figs
Re: Classic Traveller Career Question
Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.
Re: X-boats
Uniforms - pictures on-line
Re: Vland (was Re: Lost in time)
Re: X-boats
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Invasion: Junidy!
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Uniforms - pictures on-line
Re: Domed Cities Not Necessary
Re: Classic Traveller Career Question
Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures
Mass star data.
Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Re: Pocket Empire PBEM Software
Re: Pocket Empire PBEM Software
Re: Pocket Empire PBEM Software
Standard Cargo Containers
Travellers Digest #9 (was Re: Uniforms)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:19:38 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

> >Or a vampire ship from TNE?
>
> Ouch! Yes, another point I hadn't considered, since I don't play in a TNE
> universe. Well, IMTU I have a ship with an intelligent computer (the last
> ship built on Darrian before the _Maghiz_, an experimental scout ship)
> jumping around, so obviously I must believe that a true AI can deal with
> these flutters. But you need a TL 17 AI to do it, so it's not a problem in
> the normal TU. There! That also accounts for vampire ships.
>

We're like TL 7-8 here on earth, right?  Well, we can do just that with our
cruise missiles right now.  I really don't see why you need a sophisticated AI to
perform a simple jump. Especially if you have a human program the jump taking
into account any of the reported problems from hundreds of other jumps on the
same course. The only reason I can see the need for the engineer is repairing and
maintaining the jump drive and various other systems. If you periodically
(monthly) take the ship out of commission for routine maintenance that solves the
problem (and you'd need to since the ship would be spending 99% of its time in
jumpspace.

> >It really breaks down into two theories:
>
> It breaks down to observable phenomena: In the Traveller Universe unmanned
> ships are possible, but rare; manned ships are the norm. Therefore manned
> ships are able to outperform unmanned ships. Any set of rules that makes
> unmanned ships capable of outperforming manned ships must therefore be
> failing to account for something.
>

Manned ships can outperform unmanned ships in a generalized function.  Robots and
automation VERY easily outperform men in specialized repeated functions. You
still need the man at the controls to turn it on and off and quality control,
programming, etc.  But my design for the message torp included that.  A man
programmed the cargo module computer with all the specs for the jump.

> >An important note is that xboat message torps wouldn't affect the Traveller
> >universe much at all (except having a cheaper/moderately faster
> >communication).
>
> Not if you postulate that they are impossible to construct prior to the late
> 11th Century or that they are more expensive in the long run than X-boats
> (or both). But if they are both possible and cheaper than X-boats in 600,
> then I'd say you have to stretch canon to the breaking point to explain the
> X-boat setup.

I really don't know much about "canon" and never have been to keen on keeping
obsolete junk just because someone says its common despite its inadequacies.
However, my suggestion is a replacement for the existing X-Boat setup.  When the
ships go out of service, they can be replaced with message torps with better
turnaround time, no crew to support (the tenders still need crews though) and no
life support needed. Squeezing it into a cargo module has the added benefit of
making them easy to ship.

I think that there has been some changes that make the proposed system possible
now that weren't back when the Xboat system was first set up.  Primarily the
reduction in minimum size for jump drives and removing the 100 dTon limit on jump
capable vehicles (probably not really gone, but the key word is "safe" limit as
in safe for human transport).

One question though, is an XBoat armed? Carrying mail requires an armed ship, 5
dtons of cargo space and a full time gunner.  I don't think an Xboat qualifies
(but I don't have the specs so I wouldn't know).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 01:09:35 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Product listing for CT (List provided)

In article <35118D83.43C22045@bu.edu>, Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote:
>Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Is there a complete product listing for CT anywhere on the net?

>BOARDGAMES
>        G1      Mayday (Ziplock)
>        G2      Snapshot
>        G3      Azhanti High Lightning
>        G4      Fifth Frontier War
>        G5      Invasion: Earth
>        G6      Striker Miniatures Rules


There is at least one other board game,
(Dark Nebula).

Plus a whole slew of non-GDW products
such as the FASA and Judges Guild stuff


- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:   frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |        frankie@paradise.net.nz 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 01:20:11 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Trav figs

In article <199803200236.SAA01617@sword.lightspeed.bc.ca>,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:
>Hello,
>  Someone recently suggested getting a write-up on Traveller
>miniatures done. I could help with that (particularly the 25mm
>stuff), but who should I talk to?
>
>  BTW, anyone out there willing to trade the Space: 1889 "Legions
>of Mars" figure set for Classic Trav books?

Er, do you mean you've got Legions of Mars, and want CT or
the other way round ?


- -- 
Frankie
    

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 01:30:32 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller Career Question

In article <199803192228.QAA01834@mail.stlnet.com>,
"Jeremy Reaban" <frankpul@stlnet.com> wrote:
>I've written a Classic Traveller character generator. I've already included
>all the careers in products I have - the 6 basic ones, the 12 from Citizens
>of the Imperium, one from Dragon Magazine, the ones from the Darrian
>Modules, the Dryone Castes, and a few of my own creation. 
>
>My question is: What other CT products have normal careers in them? (ie,
>not the extended careers like in Books 4-7 which I don't like). I'd guess
>the alien modules, as the Darrian one has some. But do any of the others? I
>know Twilight's Peak has Dryone rules, but do any of the adventures have
>something like that?  

There's the Imperial Secret Sevice in a White Dwarf magazine

- -- 
Frankie

Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:   frankie@mundens.gen.nz
Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |        frankie@paradise.net.nz 
New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:33:59 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.

<rant>
Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.

On this list, extensive amounts of Traveller Material from all generations
of the game will be offered for sale or trade in long lists that would be
better suited to websites. Indeed, the product listing from the FarFuture
website will be reposted on many an occasion so you can be certain to know
what goodies you are missing.

Furthermore, the list offers chains of Me-too posts on requests for
material either photocopied or otherwise, and regular repeats of the old
favourite "Marc Can I Please Photocopy this Supplement because it's Out of
Print and Not for Profit". In addition, there will be occasional messages
from the various groups selflessly providing material to fuel this shopping
frenzy, groups such as BITS, Traveller Chronicle, SJG and even, once in a
blue moon, from IG.

Unfortunately, running such a shopping service is expensive, so we will
have to soldier on through the tedious and boring occasional messages from
our sponsors discussing the hows, whys and wherefores of the Traveller
universe.

Coming soon, the Traveller Shopping Channel.
</rant off>

Thank you. Normal service from me will now be resumed.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:36:13 -0500
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats

> >>My own preferred explanation (non-canon warning!) is that in
> >>a few percent of all jumps (something like 1 in 36 ;-) the jump field
> >>develops an unpredictable flutter some time during the journey. Nothing a
> >>competent, or even semi-competent, engineer can't handle, but fatal if it
> >>isn't corrected
> >
> >Why couldn't an onboard computer resolve said "Flutter"?
>
> Because if they could, most ships would be automated, and we know for a
> fact that that is not the case. Q.E.D ;-).

Responsibilities of "most" ships:
1) Jump between systems
2) Transit within systems
3) Transport Cargo
4) Transport Passengers
5) Communicate with local government
6) Chart System
7) Plot new course for jump
8) Shoot bad guys

Responsibilities for Xboat:
1) Jump precharted course
2) Transmit message to tender
3) Transport nonvolatile incidental cargo (data)

As I see it, "most" ships have alot more stuff to do than an xboat thus you
can't compare "most" ships to Xboats.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:13:47 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Uniforms - pictures on-line

Yo Folks,
     I've just done some snaps from my KiSS data set (the modern version of
Dress Me Up) and stuck it up on my web-page. These include a Naval uniform
and (most of) an Army uniform. Discuss. Enjoy.
     http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/elise.htm
     Jo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:44:05 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Vland (was Re: Lost in time)

Peter Newman wrote:

>> I have one question about the hardcover:  is the population digit of 5
>> for Vland correct?  Is my memory failing me?
>> If it is 5, does anybody know what happened to all those poor Vilani?
>
>Obviously they all ate each other during the Long Night.
>
><ducks quickly>

Not so fast there!  Perhaps some of the survivors of the Terran-introduced
plagues ate each other, but I doubt it -- they simply were incapable of
innovating the necessary recipies to handle it.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:54:21 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: X-boats

>>Why couldn't an onboard computer resolve said "Flutter"?
>
>Because if they could, most ships would be automated, and we know for a
>fact that that is not the case. Q.E.D ;-).
>
>(See other postings for more handwaves.)

(We're not slamming down on your theory/handwave because we want to have
automated ships - we're trying to come up with a handwave that holds up to
scrutiny.)

One part of the old CT Canon is that most things are done by humans (later,
Robots came along which IMHO clearly failed to grasp the ramifications it
presented vs the canon: linear skill costs etc).

If we could perhaps come up with a handwave why most tasks seem so hard to
do by robots unsupervised by humans. One thing I've been toying with is
that while it's easy to make robots do seemingly hard tasks such as
economic analysis etc some humanly mundane tasks such as repairing
powerplants etc requires experience and in order to give the robots that
experience they have to work several years in the field. This would make
the robots with high skills expensive.
But why aren't they copying the experience data from a trined robots into
massproduced repar bot brains? Because datastorage is analog, holographic,
faulttolerant, redundant in such a way that each set of data is configured
for a particular brain and would worke with degraded performance if at all
in another.

This could also give a reason why they make robots so longlived in Robots:
It's because robots that work with a human for several years in repairs
will accumulate a lot of experience and therefore actually go up in price.
The Robot builders therefore build them to last unlike car manufacturers
today.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:17:15 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

At 02:03 PM 3/20/98 +0100, you wrote:
>On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, talisman wrote:
>
>> > Clarke's Law.  By definition, a TL 35 piece of equipment will seem to be
>> > magic to even a sophisticated TL 15 Imperial scientist.
>
>That's not *Clarke's Law*, this was:
>If a young, unknown scientist say something does work, he will be right.
>If an elder, known scientist says something doesn't work, he will be false.

Umm, Arthur C. Clarke's Law:  Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "I'm just like anybody else, I want |
|  to be a non-conformist too."       |
|                      -Lenny Bruce   |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:02:30 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Invasion: Junidy!

At 02:50 PM 3/20/98 +0100, you wrote:

>I don't know if you got this from "The Regency Sourcebook". If you did, then
>you're not at fault, of course. But the RS is. Have you considered the force
>it would take to defeat the defenses of 28 billion people? Not to mention
>the number of troops you'd need to KEEP them occupied? And then there's the
>whole notion that Norris would allow anyone to attack any planet in his
>domain without reacting (This point applies to any world in the Domain of
>Deneb occupied by Vargr or Aslans, btw.). It's certainly not the impression
>I get of Norris from reading about him.

But picture what would happen if the Vargr cooridinated with the Ine Givar,
and the underground forces, who all rose up when the Vargr fleet showed up.

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
|-------------------------------------|
| "It is not the big armies that win  |
|  battles, it is the good ones"      |
|             -Maurice de Saxe        |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:15:14 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

At 09:31 AM 3/20/98 +0000, you wrote:
>On 19 Mar 98, dberry@hooked.net disseminated foul capitalist 
>propaganda by writing:
 
>> Clarke's Law.  By definition, a TL 35 piece of equipment will seem
>> to be magic to even a sophisticated TL 15 Imperial scientist. --
>
>Actually, no, they use a somewhat more sophisticated for of psionics. 
>IMC, there's only ESP-type psionics, but Ancients have much more 
>powerful form of psi that uses life-energy of the entire ecosystem, 
>which allows them to manipulate physical stuff. It also sucks in 
>space. (Figuratively and literally - it drains the 'mage's' 
>lifeforce. That's why Ancients use giant eco-ships, which are still 
>extremely vulnerable to technical monstrosities of Descendants (aka 
>Humaniti). But their planets are practically impregnable - even to 
>near-c rocks ;>>.)

Well, sort of.  Every known Ancient site has seemed to reinvent technology
from the ground up.  Confused the hell out of researchers for the laongest
time.

Take what is quite possibly the best known canonical Ancient site,
Twilight's Peak.  The door opened in response to human fear (psionic
trigger), the energy bridge needed no such trigger, and worked on a regular
cycle.  The food despensers worked for everyone, as did the waste facilities.

The planetary display and defense mechanism worked for any character who
fiddled with it. The sleep pods containing the Droyne warriors were
indeterminate.. they opened when disturbed, but that could have been a
mechanical reaction.  The guns used by the Droyne were definantly psionic.

Almost forgot.  The anti-matter battery found in the Octogon was non-psionic.

So only about half the known features need psionic abilities to work.  

As for Ancient worlds being immune to drop the rock.. where do you think
all those asteroid belts come from?
>
>Basically, they created Humaniti to deal with a problem that could 
>not be resolved with magic - since they had their magic, the 
>incentive to develop complicated technologies was null, and magically 
>powered devices are not very effective in the void of space. 
>
>Maybe someday I'll translate some of my stuff into English and post 
>it on the WWW... 
>
>(BTW: And it all started out when I wanted to begin a Hard-SF Star 
>Wars campaign using CORPS. Sigh.)
>
>
>Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl;
http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
>Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO;
SNAFU; TANJ
>  Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++)
PE Y+ 
>  PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
>    You are trying to say I should trust him? - Random 
>I am trying to say that you have no choice. - Corwin 
>
>
>
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:31:57 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Uniforms - pictures on-line

At 03:13 PM 3/20/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Yo Folks,
>     I've just done some snaps from my KiSS data set (the modern version of
>Dress Me Up) and stuck it up on my web-page. These include a Naval uniform
>and (most of) an Army uniform. Discuss. Enjoy.
>     http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/elise.htm

Very nice!  Although the cammo pattern on the Army uniform is pretty
worthless.

Where can I find this KiSS data stuff?  What is needed to run it?

Doug.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:44:00 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Domed Cities Not Necessary

"Justin Durkan" <jdurkan@iol.ie> writes:
>If any of you vist Minneapolis/St-Paul you will see a neat solution to the
>thin/tainted atmosphere problem typicall solved with domed cities. In
>St-Paul all the downtown buildings are interconnected by walkways on the
>first floor. 

And downtown Toronto has most of the major office building connected by an
underground walkway system, with restaurants and shops lining the walkway
level. Very convenient, if you know where you are going. (And if you
don't, good luck, because there are no decent signs. Apparently each
building owner wants you to shop at their building so they don't want you
to easily find your way to the next building. Silly, but that's pure
shortsighted capitalism in action on Bay Street.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:43:56 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller Career Question

> 
> There's the Imperial Secret Sevice in a White Dwarf magazine

	Sounds Cool, what issue?
> 
> -- 
> Frankie
> 
> Frank G. Pitt | When in doubt, wash | fun:   frankie@mundens.gen.nz
> Wellington    |   (Orlando)         |        frankie@paradise.net.nz 
> New Zealand   |                     | profit: fpitt@nz1.ibm.com
>     

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:48:16 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures

Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> writes:
>The best way would be a .dxf CAD-Format or a .wmf Format for Windows, as
>these are ubiquitous. (Don't know enough about .pdf's) I used the .wmf
>format for some Faction and Megacorp Logo Files. 

Ubiquitous for PCs, maybe. My Mac can't read wmf files.  What's wrong with
GIFF or JPEG?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:54:44 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Mass star data.

	I am looking for a program that will generate mass amounts of detailed
systems, and can be run on a PC.  Does anyone have such an animal?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:00:56 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

Lars Adler wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Steve Daniels wrote:
>
> > "Give me some Peacemaker ammo."
> > "Peacemaker?  We have no weapon or ammunition by that designation?"
> > "Come on, desk jockey.  I need 1 gross of thumpers for my Peacemaker."
> > "Thumpers?  <sigh> State your weapon designation, serial number and permit
> > number."
> [snip]
>
> May I put that to my Trav Website? I'm a collector of those - if you know
> more such stories ... (*grin*)
>
> L.A.

  Sure.  If I think of any more I'll let you know.  :-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:56:12 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empire PBEM Software

Where do I get galatic at?

- ----------
> From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Pocket Empire PBEM Software
> Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 8:18 AM
> 
> Greeetings,
>      Some time ago I announced that I had produced add-in software for
> Galactic to do the calculations and roll-up and roll-out for managing a
> PBEM Pocket Empire game. I put it up for beta testing on
> ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/pesec.zip (although I may have the
> address confused with the above message, pe.zip).
>      I got absolutely zero response.
>      I'm happy to run a Pocket Empire PBEM using this software. But it
has
> to be tested first. I've tested as much of the basics as I have had time
> for. If you want a PE PBEM, get Galactic, put the software in, and make
> sure you can run it. Send me the bugs.
>      Cheers,
>           Jo
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:05:14 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empire PBEM Software

Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:

>      I'm happy to run a Pocket Empire PBEM using this software. But it has
> to be tested first. I've tested as much of the basics as I have had time
> for. If you want a PE PBEM, get Galactic, put the software in, and make
> sure you can run it. Send me the bugs.

I'll try it Jo, but that link don't work.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:12:24 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empire PBEM Software

- ----------
> From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Pocket Empire PBEM Software
> Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 11:05 AM
> 
> 
> 
> Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:
> 
> >      I'm happy to run a Pocket Empire PBEM using this software. But it
has
> > to be tested first. I've tested as much of the basics as I have had
time
> > for. If you want a PE PBEM, get Galactic, put the software in, and make
> > sure you can run it. Send me the bugs.
> 
> I'll try it Jo, but that link don't work.
> 
> Bloo
>

	I had the same problem
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:38:29 -0500
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: Standard Cargo Containers

A few weeks ago the TML was discussing cargo and cargo containers. I
remember seeing standardized cargo containers in the classic and
MegaTraveller materials, I think it was in a digest article. Anyway, I
thought that there should be some for T4, so I designed some. This is
especially useful because it will effect your ship designs if you are
trying to build a ship that will carry cargo (you will want to optimize
the design to maximize the number of standard containers it can hold).

I used a minimally sized fuel cell for power. I do not know if this
makes sense or not. I had trouble figuring out how to do batteries.


Standard Cargo Containers:

Svenson Small Craft, LIC proudly announces the release of a complete
line of standardized cargo containers. All containers conform to
the specifications set forward in the Imperial Trade Commission's
Standard Cargo Container Specification document.

Trade and commerce is greatly enhanced by the use of standard sized
cargo containers. The Imperium has to use such containers to speed
operations in busy ports. The most flexible sizes for small ships
would run through 1 ton, 2 ton and 4 ton sizes.

If designed properly they would be stackable and interchangeable.
So, two 2 ton containers would fit where one 4 ton container would
be stored and two 1 ton containers would fit where one 2 ton
container would be stored.

A ships cargo hold would be designed to optimize the storage of
these standard sized containers.

The following have been designed using version 2.0 of Andrew Akins'
FF&S2 spreadsheet program.


Standard 1 ton Cargo Container

Tons: 1std (USL cube)	Cargo: 1std(1/0)
Volume: 14m3		Cost: 0.010 MCr
Mass (L/C): 14t/0t	Maintenance Points: 0
Dimensions: 2.4m x 2.4m x 2.4m	TL: 12
Size: 6

Controls: Dynamic, Low automation

0 Power (/FCell:0.01MW)
0 Life Sup. (/Ty:Mn,Mn)
0[1] Armor, 0 structure


Standard 2 ton Cargo Container

Tons: 2std (USL Medium Box)	Cargo: 2std(1/0)
Volume: 28m3		Cost: 0.017 MCr
Mass (L/C): 14t/0t	Maintenance Points: 0
Dimensions: 4.8m x 2.4m x 2.4m	TL: 12
Size: 6

Controls: Dynamic, Low automation

0 Power (/FCell:0.01MW)
0 Life Sup. (/Ty:Mn,Mn)
0[1] Armor, 0 structure


Standard 4 ton Cargo Container

Tons: 4std (USL Long Box)	Cargo: 4std(1/0)
Volume: 56m3		Cost: 0.020 MCr
Mass (L/C): 57t/1t	Maintenance Points: 0
Dimensions: 9.6m x 2.4m x 2.4m	TL: 12
Size: 6

Controls: Dynamic, Low automation

0 Power (/FCell:0.01MW)
0 Life Sup. (/Ty:Mn,Mn)
0[1] Armor, 1 structure
- ------------------------------------------------

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:18:44 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Travellers Digest #9 (was Re: Uniforms)

> > Yup. Travellers Digest #9 (I think) gave military uniforms for the
> > Imperial Guard. A later Digest gave uniforms for the Terran Occupation
> > Force.


	Does anyone have a copy of the artical?  I would do almost anything to see
it.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #297
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, March 20 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 298



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Mass star data.
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Mass star data.
CORE
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: Classic Traveller Career Question
re:Ct Items for sale
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Invasion: Junidy!
Re: Unusual settings & campaigns
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Rule comparisons
Re: Mass star data.
Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.
Re: Invasion: Junidy!
Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
Re: Mass star data.
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: Mass star data.
Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.
Re: Uniforms - pictures on-line
Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures
Re: X-boats
Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.
Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:23:33 -0800
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Mass star data.

At 10:54 AM 3/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
>	I am looking for a program that will generate mass amounts of detailed
>systems, and can be run on a PC.  Does anyone have such an animal?

Go to my web site and grab Accrete.  You have to enter the stellar mass and
luminosity (and for version 3, the physical attributes of the mainworld),
but it creates very nice solar systems.

It runs under DOS, so I don't know how well the DOS-emulator in Win95
handles it.

http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html


- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:24:47 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

- ----------
> From: Andrew Smith <andrew.smith@aihw.gov.au>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns
> Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 11:09 PM
> 
> >
> >> It's beginning to worry me that the Ancient TL seems /still/ to be
> >> increasing. I'm sure it was given in 'Secrets of the Ancients' as
20-25,
> >> and two weeks ago on the list it was 30. And now it's jumped to 35!
> >
> >Do you actualy have a copy of this book?
> 
> I do, but it's been a coupla years since I went looking for it. I know
> where the box it's in is though.
> 
> AS

I'd like a copy of the tech.
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:29:03 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Mass star data.

I have Accrete.  I want to generate 1000's of systems at a time.  With
populations.

- ----------
> From: dberry@hooked.net
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Mass star data.
> Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 11:23 AM
> 
> At 10:54 AM 3/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
> >	I am looking for a program that will generate mass amounts of detailed
> >systems, and can be run on a PC.  Does anyone have such an animal?
> 
> Go to my web site and grab Accrete.  You have to enter the stellar mass
and
> luminosity (and for version 3, the physical attributes of the mainworld),
> but it creates very nice solar systems.
> 
> It runs under DOS, so I don't know how well the DOS-emulator in Win95
> handles it.
> 
> http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html
> 
> 
> --
> 
> +-------------------------------------+
> | Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
> |    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
> +-------------------------------------+
> | "I created the universe; give ME    |
> |  the gift certificate!!"            |
> |        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
> +-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:37:31 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: CORE

HELP!!!
	I was looking at the core website when my browser crashed.  I do not
remember the address and I didn't get the chance to mark it.  I have
already deleted the message that I got the original address from.  Please
post it again.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:14:27 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

> He's Good!  One Kinunir is described as being presented to the Vegans as
a
> gift, after having its weaponry altered slightly.

	I'm impressed.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:13:31 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

- ----------
> From: Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information
> Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 10:56 AM
> 
> 
> 
> >The whole sector was covered in CT Supplement 11 : The Solomai Rim,
> >there are paragraphs on each subsector therein.
> >
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a copy of S11: The Solomani Rim that they would be willing
> to trade, sell or copy (with permission from Marc, of course)?

	What did you have mind for a trade?
> 
> Thanks,
> Shawn
> electric-stitch@w-link.net
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:17:48 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller Career Question

Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> 
> In article <199803192228.QAA01834@mail.stlnet.com>,
> "Jeremy Reaban" <frankpul@stlnet.com> wrote:
> >I've written a Classic Traveller character generator. I've already included
> >all the careers in products I have - the 6 basic ones, the 12 from Citizens
> >of the Imperium, one from Dragon Magazine, the ones from the Darrian
> >Modules, the Dryone Castes, and a few of my own creation.
> >
> >My question is: What other CT products have normal careers in them? (ie,
> >not the extended careers like in Books 4-7 which I don't like). I'd guess
> >the alien modules, as the Darrian one has some. But do any of the others? I
> >know Twilight's Peak has Dryone rules, but do any of the adventures have
> >something like that?
> 
> There's the Imperial Secret Sevice in a White Dwarf magazine

I prefered IBIS myself, but I can't remember where I found the article, or where
I put the copies when I went of to serve in the Nav!  :(

douglas 

- -- 
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:45:11 -0600
From: Paul Kerby <ybrekp@mtco.com>
Subject: re:Ct Items for sale

I want to thank everyone for the overwealming response I received.
Everything is now sold.  We now return you to your regularly scheduled
mayhem.

Kerby

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:27:02 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

> REFEREES ONLY
> 
> That is a Challenge Article I have got. But it was only about the hidden
> Braykossa System at Regina, which is interesting enough. This also gives 
> an interesting campaign, a kind of P.J. Farmer's "The World of Tiers".
> 
> L.A.

I don't supose you could send me a summery of it?
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:09:15 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Invasion: Junidy!

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> says:

>Subject: Invasion: Junidy!
>
...
>You should make an effort to get it published, so that the rest of us can
draw
>on it for our own articles (As I understand it, as long as it is not part of
>the official Traveller Universe we'd be violating copyright if we, say, wrote
>an adventure set on Junidy and based the Llellewyloly on your article).

 Given the level of "official" publication at the moment (and since I
finished the article), especially of anything focused on the Marches,
I have little hope of that happening quickly. It's why I've been sitting
on the article this long. If Kevin's fine magazine (Traveller Chronicle,
for the uninformed) counts as "Official" in your sense of the word, then
you may get your wish. Otherwise I get to wait for FFE/IG/SJG/??? to get
around to the right era/corner of space...


>Anyway, good work. Mostly. One small point, however...

>>There has been renewed interest since the Rebellion, however, due to the
>>occupation of Junidy by invading Vargr in 1116.

>I don't know if you got this from "The Regency Sourcebook". If you did, then
>you're not at fault, of course. But the RS is. Have you considered the force
>it would take to defeat the defenses of 28 billion people? Not to mention
>the number of troops you'd need to KEEP them occupied? And then there's the
>whole notion that Norris would allow anyone to attack any planet in his
>domain without reacting (This point applies to any world in the Domain of
>Deneb occupied by Vargr or Aslans, btw.). It's certainly not the impression
>I get of Norris from reading about him.

  This is pulled from the maps and other mentions in MegaTraveller.
Why refer to it as "occupation" by the Vargr? Because until Norris notices
and drives them off, the TL12-13 Vargr have it all over the TL3/10 Junidans,
especially in space. All it takes is the threat of blowing a dome and the
Vargr own it, at least long enough to loot it (which is what they REALLY
want to do, after all). I expect the Vargr wouldn't set foot in the wilds
of Junidy more than once, since they can't find the settlements of the
"Barbarian" Llellewyloly easily, have to wear protective gear, and can't
depend on their two best senses (hearing and smell), but the domes are
easy.
  Also, I give no indications of how long the Vargr "owned" Junidy. The
Vargr could have arrived, looted, and been driven off many times during
the course of the Rebellion Era. The 1120 maps in MegaTraveller could
simply be a snapshot of the moment.
  As for the Regency Era, if there happened to be more Vargr insystem
when the Virus arrived, then travel is suddenly _really_ stupid, so the
Vargr, after "reassigning" (to the airlock) the leaders that put them in
such a pickle, would attempt to mix in with the natives. (yuck, what a
sentence).

  That help any?

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:24:02 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual settings & campaigns

> On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Anders Lindborg wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone on the list used the Traveller rules
> > system or portions of it for playing in settings
> > or campaigns very unlike the standard Traveller
> > settings? I'm thinking of campaigns that take 
> > place in a SF environment that works like the
> > Traveller setting, but where the political and
> > social background is different.


	Well, no.  But I have done just the oppisite.  I have used other rules to
play the Traveller universe.  I tried GURPS, but found the rules to
sluggish, so I now use the Storyteller system by White Wolf games.  It
works very well I think.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:12:38 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

dberry@hooked.net wrote:
> 
> At 02:03 PM 3/20/98 +0100, you wrote:
> >On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, talisman wrote:
> >
> >> > Clarke's Law.  By definition, a TL 35 piece of equipment will seem to be
> >> > magic to even a sophisticated TL 15 Imperial scientist.
> >
> >That's not *Clarke's Law*, this was:
> >If a young, unknown scientist say something does work, he will be right.
> >If an elder, known scientist says something doesn't work, he will be false.
> 
> Umm, Arthur C. Clarke's Law:  Any sufficiently advanced technology is
> indistinguishable from magic.
> --
Merlin's corollary:  Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistiguishable from
technology.

douglas

- -- 
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:10:26 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Rule comparisons

- ----------
> From: dberry@hooked.net
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Rule comparisons
> Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 10:17 AM
> 
> At 09:28 AM 3/19/98 -0600, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >> favorite rule set.  This may well change when I see T4.1, since I liked
> >> what I saw in T4, but the horrendous errata and errors put me off a bit.
> >
> >	What is T4.1?  I understand T4, but where doe the .1 come from?
> 
> T4.1 is the revision being worked on as we speak by Marc.  It will address
> many of the problems we saw in the rushed effort that was T4.  Everyone on
> the list has told Marc to take his time and get it right.

	Yes, By all means do it right.
> 
> Every now and then, he sends out sections of the rules for commentary. 
So
> far, I really like what I see.
> --
> 
> +--------------------------------------+
> |Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
> |   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
> +--------------------------------------+
> | "In the long run luck is given       |
> |  only to the efficient."             |
> |     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
> +--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:16:27 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Mass star data.

talisman wrote:
> 
>         I am looking for a program that will generate mass amounts of detailed
> systems, and can be run on a PC.  Does anyone have such an animal?

I'm working on a VB application that will do that by WBH standards, but I don't
know when I will be ready to release it (it's a spare time animal).  There are a
couple of spreadsheets available for it.

douglas
- -- 
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:33:11 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.

SD Mooney writes:

><rant>
>Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.

   <snip>

   I hate to break it to you, but this list has always had its commerical
side, whether it is the form of on-line auctions, public announcements of
products available by publishers, individuals trying to locate items, people
shamelessly plugging their own work, or whatever.  Normally it doesn't take
up as much of the list as it is at the moment, but I don't think it's time
to storm in and toss the money changers out of the temple just yet.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:39:13 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Invasion: Junidy!

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> >There has been renewed interest since the Rebellion, however, due to the
> >occupation of Junidy by invading Vargr in 1116.
> 
> I don't know if you got this from "The Regency Sourcebook". If you did, then
> you're not at fault, of course. But the RS is. Have you considered the force
> it would take to defeat the defenses of 28 billion people? Not to mention
> the number of troops you'd need to KEEP them occupied? And then there's the
> whole notion that Norris would allow anyone to attack any planet in his
> domain without reacting (This point applies to any world in the Domain of
> Deneb occupied by Vargr or Aslans, btw.). It's certainly not the impression
> I get of Norris from reading about him.

Junidy        3202 B434ABD-9  W Hi                 310 Im F7 V M9 D

4000 m/dia
Very Thin Atmosphere
30% Hydrosphere

Hmmmm...Based on this I'd say the population is highly concentrated, and relies
heavily on artificial life support.  Occupation would be difficult, but invasion
and short term expoitation of the planet could be done, provided the invaders
got into the engineering/life support sections of the
domes/arcologies/underground communities and the high orbit was controlled.  I
also imagine the threat and/or demonstrated use of weapons of mass destruction
could contain a large portion of the population.  You can do a lot in the short
term, if the population is convinced that resistance will only lead to death.

So far as long term occupation goes, I don't imagine that Norris would allow the
situation to continue for long, however.  The planet would be too valuable to
the domain.

douglas

- -- 
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:39:39 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Unusual Traveller campaigns

On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Lars Adler wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, talisman wrote:
> 
> > > Clarke's Law.  By definition, a TL 35 piece of equipment will seem to be
> > > magic to even a sophisticated TL 15 Imperial scientist.
> 
> That's not *Clarke's Law*, this was:
> If a young, unknown scientist say something does work, he will be right.
> If an elder, known scientist says something doesn't work, he will be false.
> 
> Or so ... (had to translate it back from german)

That's Clarkes Second Law, the Third Law is 'Any Sufficiently Advabnced
Technology is Indistinguishable from Magic' The First Law is (IIRC) "The
Only way to discover the limits of the possible is to move past them to
the impossible' (or something to that effect)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:36:28 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Mass star data.

Try Jim V's Galactic Program.

http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~jimv/progs.html


- -----Original Message-----
From: talisman <shimmer@mhtc.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 9:01 AM
Subject: Mass star data.


> I am looking for a program that will generate mass amounts of detailed
>systems, and can be run on a PC.  Does anyone have such an animal?
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:02:33 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

> Quick trivia:  What is the first canonical mention of the Vegans?

It depends on how you mean canonical.  "Adventure 1: The Kinunir," has a
couple of things that are "non-canon" such as the Imperium's evil nature
(which isn't too non-canonical if you play your Imperium cynically).  At
any rate, that's the first mention of the Vegans that I know of...

Chris
semo@pil.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:15:10 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

> >Adventure 1 - The Kinuir.
> 
> He's Good!  One Kinunir is described as being presented to the Vegans as
a
> gift, after having its weaponry altered slightly.

Damn!  I was late.  Oh well.  If I remember correctly, one of the engineers
who worked on the ship complains that such a well-made ship shouldn't be in
the hands of those Vegan guys.  Bitter bitter...

Chris
semo@pil.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:43:40 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Mass star data.

>talisman wrote:
>>
>>         I am looking for a program that will generate mass amounts of detailed
>> systems, and can be run on a PC.  Does anyone have such an animal?
>

I've also created a Access Database that can create 1000's of worlds. It
only creates systems based on the MT: Referee's Manual. It creates the
entire UWP plus gives the Trade Classifications, Bases, Population
Modifiers, Gas Giants, and Planetoid Belts. It just makes a list of all
this. There are no star chart placements. It's a little buggy. The Trade
classifications don't always come out right. And sometimes the GG and PB's
don't come out right either.

I haven't put much work into since I downloaded Galactic, but I would be
more than willing to send a copy of the database to you.

- -Shawn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:47:09 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.

>SD Mooney writes:
>
>><rant>
>>Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.
>
>   <snip>
>
>   I hate to break it to you, but this list has always had its commerical
>side, whether it is the form of on-line auctions, public announcements of
>products available by publishers, individuals trying to locate items,
people
>shamelessly plugging their own work, or whatever.  Normally it doesn't take
>up as much of the list as it is at the moment, but I don't think it's time
>to storm in and toss the money changers out of the temple just yet.
>
>Regards,
>
>Harold
>



Thanks, Harold.

I don't mean to waste bandwidth... or whatever. But a message is vary easily
deleted. I, for example, skip most messages that don't concern me. I don't
have to read every single message. I like the auctions. I liked Merrick's
web-based auction. But, some of us don't have the web page to have an
auction. I've even bought a few things from the list that I would never have
been able to find.

- -Shawn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:01:13 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Uniforms - pictures on-line

> Where can I find this KiSS data stuff?  What is needed to run it?
> 

KiSS programs a dolls are available from http://www.otakuworld.com/kiss. 
This is the main source for KiSS stuff and is very well done.  You should
be able to find a version of KiSS displaying software for whatever computer
you have.

(Furthermore, the whole site has alot of pretty neat-o stuff on it.  It's
an anime site that you don't have to be an anime fan to get into).

Chris
semo@pil.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 19:55 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures

Moin Anders Backman,

> Postscript dumps might work as well but there are platform differances and
> most home users have no postscript printers.

	PDF=postscript + fancy features.

	BTW it does'nt make sense to buy a customer priced postscript printer.
	Ghostscript (GNU-Postscript) is highly portable, and free available.
	An old HP4L with an 4dx33 running ghostscript prints faster than the
	actual HP postscript printer. Besides that Ghostscript just ignores
	the anoying features of PDF like the "not allowed to print" flag.

	The perfect format of a CD is imho HTML with gifs or jpgs for the
	small pictures, and PDF or Postscript for the detailed ones.
	Take a look on my home page. You can view the "Kebra Nagast" THUDDD
	Liner fast (as the picture is black/white gif) and print it in any
	size, as a postscript version is available.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:28:10 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: X-boats

Hello Folks,
  About the only thing I have to complain about with the hand waves
regarding automated processes for piloting ships is this:

 If you take an engineer, ask him to create a mockup of the engine room,
and then have him create situations that routinely occur where he needs to
intervene, and you will have the basis for creating software that can solve
the problems in precisely the same manner as the engineer would.  If you
keep getting better and better engineers to creat that mock up, then too,
should you create better and better programs.
  Also, as a point of contention:  If you take an engineer who deals with
the day to day stuff, with a skill of Engineering 1, why can't a program
worth the equivalent of engineering 1 not handle the task?  The program
would fail as often as the engineer would.  The only real thing that the
engineer could do that the computer can't, is *GUESS* at the correct answer
when all else fails.

           Hal

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:14:25 EST
From: Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.

I didn't mean to cause trouble. I thought this was legit under the heading of
information exchanging. Sorry.

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:15:55 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)

> From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
> To: TML <traveller@MPGN.COM>
>
> > The 50% number is taken from the "Aliens for Traveller:  Draft
Material". 
> > As far as I know, official, unless there is a finished version out
there
> > that corrects this.  So yes, we _do_ really have an idea of the
percentage
> > of the population are minor human races as of the late Third Imperium.
> 
> Uh, I've never seen this. Where was this published? (The thing with 
> canon is, it sucks if you don't have a copy of everything... down with 
> canon)

(c) 1981, GDW.  It's a pretty rare piece.  It includes the basic info on
all of the major races in Traveller.

> bad != non-existant. I always imagined the communications lines to
> be reasonably reliable, especially on major trade routes, merely slow.
> Even before the advent of the X-boat network, there must have been
> mail runs. It only takes one enterprising entertainment company to start
> selling movies off-planet before you have culture being externally
> influenced. _Slow_ influence, sure.

No, when I said that communications routes were bad I didn't mean
non-existant.  If that's what I meant, that's what I would have said.  By
today's standards (even by the standards of the American "Wild West")
J-Drive is a bad way to get information out.

Yes.  There may have been mail runs before the Xboat routes.  Doesn't
matter either way.  Around the time of the long night, this external
influence was (largely) eliminated.  So, no loger could the Ziru Sirka (or
the Rule of Terra) influence cultures directly.  Submerged cultures would
return, new cultures would be created by pocket empires, each with their
own agenda and way of doing things, etc etc.

> > Yes, and the government of the U.S. (not sure about Canada) was formed
> > during a classical revival, which should be kept in mind as well.  I
> > acknowledge that the U.S. is influenced by Roman culture.  But, again,
we
> > got it from the British, the French, the Spanish and a little from the
> > Dutch.  These places were all within a relatively short distance of
each
> > other in the grand scheme of things.  Now, we've got a vast distance
> > (time-wise) from, say Corridor to the Solomani Rim...  Alot more of a
> > chance for change.
> 
> I don't see a big difference - at the time the US was settled, it took a
> _long_ time to get from Europe to the US. You don't need to go to Rome,
> study Rome or even have _heard_ of Rome to have been influenced by
> Roman culture. Such is Rome's insidious influence. Such will be Vland's.

No, but you have to study Rome in order to, say, base a system of
government on a Roman system of government.  Or, you have to study those
who have studied Rome, and so on.  By the time you get out to, say Daibei,
the chain becomes longer and longer and more unwieldy.  So yes, there is a
big difference in the comparison here.  In addition, Rome was close to
England, Spain, Holland and France, so distance was not a problem for this
way of thinking.

And yes, it took a long time to get from the U.S. to Europe...  But then
again, look what happened as a result.  Revolution and overthrow of foreign
rulership.

I'm not saying that types of government won't be based on Vilani forms of
government.  I'm not saying languages will not have Vilani roots.  All I'm
saying is, that by the time of the Third Imperium, Vilani influence will be
felt less strongly than is popularly believed.  The comparison here would
be like saying that due to the influence of Rome on the west, all of Europe
still spoke Latin daily and felt the same way about science, technology,
and philosophy that Romans did with no change.

> The three biggest megacorporations are (surprise!) Vilani. They have
> their roots in the Vilani "big three" at any rate. Other megacorps
> would follow the patterns set by these three (there is a fairly limited
> amount of innovation in the business world, IMO). If anything, the
> megacorps would be responsible for keeping silly old Vilani traditions
> rather than breaking them down. 

A canon source for the three biggest megacorporations being Vilani, please?
 I don't doubt that they're big, and I don't doubt that they're powerful. 
I just doubt that all three are the biggest and most powerful.  If "silly
old Vilani" traditions makes it harder for a massive corporation to sell
its goods, then they surely would try to phase them out without even a
second thought.

At this point though, the discussion is pretty much academic though, and it
doesn't really seem to be going anywhere.  I'll continue if you'd like, but
right now it seems fruitless.

Chris
semo@pil.net

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #298
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, March 20 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 299



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Star distribution
Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)
Re: Solomani Rim Information
Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.
Megacorporations (was Re: Vilani)
Galactic
Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.
Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures
Re: Emery Dennis' Future
Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures
Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.
Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.
Re: Environmental domes
Re: Invasion: Junidy!
O where, O where has my IBIS gone?
Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures
Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures
Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.
Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures
Re: Pocket Empire PBEM Software
pocket empires
Re: X-boats

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:34:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> writes:

>ROTFL. The second got even better than the first ...
>Can we enhance this?

>On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Volker A. Greimann wrote:
>
>> Steve Daniels schrieb:
>> > 
>> > Mr. Dennis, meet Mr. Plasma Cannon.
>> > Mr. Plasma Cannon, meet Mr. Dennis.
>
>> Splurt! Damn, there goes the Earl Grey....

   Steve's wife watches him spurt hot beverage all over his keyboard and
forlornly thinks to herself, "funny, he never used to spit up a second cup..."

   <you gotta remember a certain old coffee commerical to get it>

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:43:34 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Star distribution

I was wondering what everone used for star distribution chances.

	I have been using the standard rules from Book 6:Scouts and I find WAY too
many stars on my maps.  What percents do you all use for random sectors.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:47:45 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Vilani (was Re: Chirper)

"Chris Seamans" wrote:

>> The three biggest megacorporations are (surprise!) Vilani. They have
>> their roots in the Vilani "big three" at any rate. Other megacorps
>> would follow the patterns set by these three (there is a fairly limited
>> amount of innovation in the business world, IMO). If anything, the
>> megacorps would be responsible for keeping silly old Vilani traditions
>> rather than breaking them down.
>
>A canon source for the three biggest megacorporations being Vilani, please?
> I don't doubt that they're big, and I don't doubt that they're powerful.

I don't remember the three _biggest_ ones being Vilani; certainly all the
finance and banking-oriented megacorps are Vilani (IIRC).

>I just doubt that all three are the biggest and most powerful.  If "silly
>old Vilani" traditions makes it harder for a massive corporation to sell
>its goods, then they surely would try to phase them out without even a
>second thought.

I understood the V&V conception of Vilani society to be that the Vilani
were especially _good_ at selling products and running businesses; that
their macguffin was "organization", just as "land" is for Aslan, "psionics"
are for Zhodani, and "charisma" is for Vargr.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:50:03 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim Information

Harold D. Hale <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu> sez,

>Glenn Grant writes:
>
>   I'm not sure why the DGP author(s) insisted on melting the ice caps, the
>only conclusion that I've been able to reach so far is that classic
>Traveller (IIRC Book 6: Scouts) listed in average temperature of Earth as 15
>degrees C, which is of course around 3 degrees C too high.  To explain this
>the DGP author(s) came up with the nonsense about melting ice caps.

Must've seemed a good idea at the time :)

>   BTW, I'm curious where you get the 60 meter figure for the sea level
>rise.  The figure I saw was much less than that.

IIRC this is the figure Kim Stanley Robinson gives in _Blue Mars_. His
ice-cap-breakup scenario seems really plausible, I think, and doesn't rely
intirely on global warming: in his book the current warming is only
responsible for breaking up the Ross Ice Shelf, which causes ocean levels
to rise somewhat, but at first not quite catastrophically. With the weight
of all that ice removed from the sea floor, you get geostatic rebound - the
depressed land starts to bounce back up - and magma starts flowing where it
was previously blocked (this is the theory behind the reactivation of
volcanism in Mt. St. Helens). Soon volcanos are erupting under the West
Antarctic ice sheet, cracking it up from below. When it breaks up and
melts, that's when the 60m rise happens.

From other sources I've heard lower figures, too, like 50m or so. Maybe
some forecasts take into account the increased polar precipitation that
would lead to increased precipitation, hence a lower figure. As you point
out, there's a lot of uncertainty. IIRC, Robinson's figure is itself a
projection, with a lot of caveats.

Whatever. It's definitely not something *I* want to live through!

Best,

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
  "What's that blue thing doing there?" -- They Might Be Giants

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:51:29 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.

Sethkimmel wrote:
> 
> I didn't mean to cause trouble. I thought this was legit under the heading of
> information exchanging. Sorry.
> 
> Seth

Don't be.  While some of the exchanges get a bit...exuberent, I think that this
is probably the perfect forum for initially offering up material - most of us
are either well endowed with traveller material, or actively hunting for more
(or both)!

douglas

- -- 
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:05:50 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Megacorporations (was Re: Vilani)

"Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:

> > From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
[...]
> > The three biggest megacorporations are (surprise!) Vilani. They have
> > their roots in the Vilani "big three" at any rate. Other megacorps
> > would follow the patterns set by these three (there is a fairly limited
> > amount of innovation in the business world, IMO). If anything, the
> > megacorps would be responsible for keeping silly old Vilani traditions
> > rather than breaking them down. 
>
> A canon source for the three biggest megacorporations being Vilani, please?
>  I don't doubt that they're big, and I don't doubt that they're powerful. 
> I just doubt that all three are the biggest and most powerful.

For instance, a good case can be made that even in 1115, Hortalez et Cie
and Zirunkariish are two of the richest megacorporations, based purely 
on the amount of stock they own in the others.  Neither of them are in 
the Vilani "big three" (although Zirunkariish might qualify as a fourth
member of the "big three").  :)

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:28:04 -0600
From: "talisman" <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Galactic

I am unable to connect to the links that have been given for galactic.  Can
sombody Email it to me?

	shimmer@mhtc.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:46:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.

On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, SD Mooney wrote:

> <rant>
> Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.
[snip throwing out the money-changers]

I for one am trying to restore my collection of Traveller materials.  Much
of this would not have been possible without the contacts I have found on
the list.  There is no other centralized point on the Internet where this
kind of information can be so readily given and obtained. 

I'm sorry that we got in your way.  We were only pursuing our interest in
Traveller.  No harm was intended, and we usually take the threads off the
list ASAP.  I hope that you can find it in your heart to show a little
forbearance, because I really don't want it to stop, and I don't think the
TML's mandate requires us to stop.  (Please correct me if I am wrong about
the latter point.) 


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:50:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures

On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Rob Prior wrote:

> Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> writes:
> >The best way would be a .dxf CAD-Format or a .wmf Format for Windows, as
> >these are ubiquitous. (Don't know enough about .pdf's) I used the .wmf
> >format for some Faction and Megacorp Logo Files. 
> 
> Ubiquitous for PCs, maybe. My Mac can't read wmf files.  What's wrong with
> GIFF or JPEG?

GIF and JPEG are raster-based; people seem to be interested in vector
based graphics for deckplans, probably for modification purposes.

Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:21:27 -0500
From: Steve Daniels <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Emery Dennis' Future

Harold D. Hale wrote:

> Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> writes:
>
> >ROTFL. The second got even better than the first ...
> >Can we enhance this?
>
> >On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Volker A. Greimann wrote:
> >
> >> Steve Daniels schrieb:
> >> >
> >> > Mr. Dennis, meet Mr. Plasma Cannon.
> >> > Mr. Plasma Cannon, meet Mr. Dennis.
> >
> >> Splurt! Damn, there goes the Earl Grey....
>
>    Steve's wife watches him spurt hot beverage all over his keyboard and
> forlornly thinks to herself, "funny, he never used to spit up a second cup..."

Jeez, I didn't know I was married.  If its not too much trouble, could you arrange
for an introduction?

The Hierarchy goes
Steve (Bloo) said something funny
Volker splurted
Lars ROTFL'd

I wish everyone on the list had HTMLized mail readers.  This kind of confution is
avoidable since you can change font and color, etc., to follow whos on first
easier. (Third Base).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:31:47 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote:

>Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> writes:
>>The best way would be a .dxf CAD-Format or a .wmf Format for Windows, as
>>these are ubiquitous. (Don't know enough about .pdf's) I used the .wmf
>>format for some Faction and Megacorp Logo Files.
>
>Ubiquitous for PCs, maybe. My Mac can't read wmf files.  What's wrong with
>GIFF or JPEG?

IIRC Maclink 9.0 will translate to PICT (easiest way to get it is to
transfer to OS8 but that's no good if you have less than a 040 processor).
Why not EPS or pdf?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:48:49 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.

"Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net> wrote:

Harold writes this....
>>SD Mooney writes:
>>><rant>
>>>Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.
>>   <snip>
>>
>>   I hate to break it to you, but this list has always had its commerical
>>side, whether it is the form of on-line auctions, public announcements of
>>products available by publishers, individuals trying to locate items,
>people
>>shamelessly plugging their own work, or whatever.  Normally it doesn't take
>>up as much of the list as it is at the moment, but I don't think it's time
>>to storm in and toss the money changers out of the temple just yet.

<snip>

I know. It's just getting to be the majority of the posts at the moment.
Can't we discuss Pirates instead ;-) I occasionally use the list to plug
BITS stuff so I'm as guilty as those I was spoofing.

>Thanks, Harold.
>
>I don't mean to waste bandwidth... or whatever. But a message is vary easily
>deleted. I, for example, skip most messages that don't concern me. I don't
>have to read every single message.

Most of the TML goes out as Digest (or at least Rob said that in his last
post). It is difficult to delete a single message from a Digest. So I
disagree.

>I like the auctions. I liked Merrick's
>web-based auction. But, some of us don't have the web page to have an
>auction. I've even bought a few things from the list that I would never have
>been able to find.

I agree. My real gripe is with the number of people reposting the whole
message and then adding 'Me too' at the end. A significant part of the
posts are just dross because of this.

Sethkimmel <Sethkimmel@aol.com> wrote:
>I didn't mean to cause trouble. I thought this was legit under the heading of
>information exchanging. Sorry.

It isn't trouble really, I was just getting fed up with the repetition of
long mail messages with a one line tag at the end. Not necessarily by
yourself. Or the long messages with a small single line quote hidden in the
middle of a complete repost. Grrr!

Harold - the post was meant as a slightly tongue in check, semi-sarcastic
comment on the number of commercial mails and the needless requoting which
seems to be de-rigour at the moment. If the tone offended I apologise.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the
notion that the future is something we build. It doesn't
just happen. You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." - 'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn
- --Get Infini-V from http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:07:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.

On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, SD Mooney wrote:

> I agree. My real gripe is with the number of people reposting the whole
> message and then adding 'Me too' at the end. A significant part of the
> posts are just dross because of this.
> 
> It isn't trouble really, I was just getting fed up with the repetition of
> long mail messages with a one line tag at the end. Not necessarily by
> yourself. Or the long messages with a small single line quote hidden in the
> middle of a complete repost. Grrr!

I agree that the me-toos should be remanded back into the point-and-click
oblivion from whence they were originally spawned.  However, I must urge
that we target them, and not people offering to sell stuff, as I do not
wish to discourage the sellers.  Generally, the sellers have been very
polite. 

No genuine offense taken.  :)


Clark


- --
"Remember, if you see a flash:  It's Duck!  And Cover!"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:36:25 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Environmental domes

On Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:13:54 -0500, you wrote:

>Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:59:33 +0100 (MET)
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Environmental domes
>
>Jo Grant writes:
>
>(Thanks for the response, Jo.)
> 
>>>What would make people settle a world where they can't breathe freely
>>Like Los Angeles? :-)
>
>You mean Los Angeles had smog back when the first settlers arrived there?

Actually, fun aside, it *did* ... the first explorer to see it named it "Bay of
Smokes", because of all the fires the local indians had lit for hunting purposes
(to flush out game and the like). Bahia de los Fumos (excuse the poor Spanish).

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
YES! Dark Star is now available from Hyperbooks.com!
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:07:22 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Invasion: Junidy!

> I don't know if you got this from "The Regency Sourcebook". If you did, then
> you're not at fault, of course. But the RS is. Have you considered the force
> it would take to defeat the defenses of 28 billion people? Not to mention
> the number of troops you'd need to KEEP them occupied? And then there's the
> whole notion that Norris would allow anyone to attack any planet in his
> domain without reacting (This point applies to any world in the Domain of
> Deneb occupied by Vargr or Aslans, btw.). It's certainly not the impression
> I get of Norris from reading about him.
However, consider that Norris had other problems as well. He didnt know
wheather he could trust the Zhos. The Domain was cut off from the rest
of the imperium, thereby cuttiong off all possible reinforcements. As
the Domain still was somewhat of a backwater even in 1116, the
industrial capacity isnt as high as that of other domains. Corridor and
its fleet are gone, therefore reducing further the number of ships
available to defend worlds. He couldnt risk exposing the Zhodani
frontier back then so most ships would be stationed there. 
On the other hand there were massive iheiti (?) forces coming from
Rimward, pushing into Domain territory and large vargr fleets from
Coreward. Norris simply couldnt afford to defend everything. Later,
when the situation normalized, he must have realized that taking back
the lost territory would cost more than it yielded. So he struck a deal
with the former invaders and let them keep their territories. That way,
peace was maintained and the domain could survive.

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
*Volker A. Greimann...Am Weidengraben 86, C6...54296 Trier*
********http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061*********
****grei5001@uni-trier.de* or try * greimann@geocities.com****
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:59:21 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph M. Saul" <jmsaul@us.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: O where, O where has my IBIS gone?

Douglas Glatz wrote:

>I prefered IBIS myself, but I can't remember where I found the article, or

_The Dragon_, somewhere in the mid- to late thirties.  #37, maybe?


>where I put the copies when I went of to serve in the Nav!  :(

That I can't help you with.  ;-)

Joe Saul
jmsaul@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:37:26 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures

At 01:01 pm 3/20/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>The best way would be a .dxf CAD-Format or a .wmf Format for
Windows, as
>>these are ubiquitous. (Don't know enough about .pdf's) I used the
.wmf
>>format for some Faction and Megacorp Logo Files.
>>
>>(now on my website,
http.//www.uni-koeln.de/~acp82/Ancients/software.html)
>>
>>L.A.
>
>DXF sucks as it is basically a 3D graphics format without linewidth, text
>comments etc (DXF also sucks as 3D format but that's off topic).
>Use PDF as they're crossplatform and can be produced by any application
>capable of printing (you basically print to a virtual printer that creates
>the PDF.

	The benefit of DXF, and the fatal flaw of PDF, is that one can be
imported into most programs and edited, while the other cannot.
Haven't you learned by now that *nobody* on this list uses things
"as-is?"
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:57:29 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures

At 11:48 am 3/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> writes:
>>The best way would be a .dxf CAD-Format or a .wmf Format for Windows, as
>>these are ubiquitous. (Don't know enough about .pdf's) I used the .wmf
>>format for some Faction and Megacorp Logo Files. 
>
>Ubiquitous for PCs, maybe. My Mac can't read wmf files.  What's wrong with
>GIFF or JPEG?

	WMF, DXF, et al. are vector formats, which are much more easily
scaled, edited, and generally messed with. GIF and JPEG are raster or
bitmap formats. Not nearly as nicely edited.

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:05:28 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Traveller Sale List.

> I don't mean to waste bandwidth... or whatever. But a message is vary easily
> deleted. I, for example, skip most messages that don't concern me. I don't
> have to read every single message. I like the auctions. I liked Merrick's
> web-based auction. But, some of us don't have the web page to have an
> auction. I've even bought a few things from the list that I would never have
> been able to find.
> 
> -Shawn

Speaking of which, I've decided to auction off those traveller figures.

Current highest bid is : timmon@primenet.com, for $60

Ok you veterans out there, just how do I go about running this thing OFF
the list?  Do I need to create some sort of mailing group?  I am running
Netscape Messenger in the Communicator 4.04 package.

Thanks in advance!

My email address is : j-man@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:28:38 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Deckplans/Cardboard figures

On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, SD Mooney wrote:

> Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote:
> 
> >Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> writes:
> >>The best way would be a .dxf CAD-Format or a .wmf Format for Windows, as
> >>these are ubiquitous. (Don't know enough about .pdf's) I used the .wmf
> >>format for some Faction and Megacorp Logo Files.
> >
> >Ubiquitous for PCs, maybe. My Mac can't read wmf files.  What's wrong with
> >GIFF or JPEG?
> 
> IIRC Maclink 9.0 will translate to PICT (easiest way to get it is to
> transfer to OS8 but that's no good if you have less than a 040 processor).
> Why not EPS or pdf?
> 

Graphic Converter is the way to go for conversions on a mac.

But I agree with the person who said that .dxf sux. .wmf is a poor
imitiation of a pict file, and the others are raster graphics.
Unfortunately, .eps and straight postscript are useless for manipulation
unless you have Illustrator, Freehand, or maybe Corel.

.pdf, while attractive for distribution, doesn't allow editing.

This is only the top of the great graphics file format morass...there
really _is_ no such thing as a universal vector graphics format.

If I were forced to vote, however, it'd be along platform lines..I'd
prefer a .pict file.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:22:53 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empire PBEM Software

At 02:18 PM 3/20/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Greeetings,
>     Some time ago I announced that I had produced add-in software for
>Galactic to do the calculations and roll-up and roll-out for managing a
>PBEM Pocket Empire game. I put it up for beta testing on
>ftp://ftp.maths.tcd.ie/pub/jaymin/pesec.zip (although I may have the
>address confused with the above message, pe.zip).
>     I got absolutely zero response.

Sorry to be so tardy, but I'll reply. I rather fancy being a guinea pig. :-)

>     I'm happy to run a Pocket Empire PBEM using this software. But it has
>to be tested first. I've tested as much of the basics as I have had time
>for. If you want a PE PBEM, get Galactic, put the software in, and make
>sure you can run it. Send me the bugs.
>     Cheers,
>          Jo

Silly question and please pardon my ignorance, but where am I supposed to
put the thing once I get it?



Sincerely,

Brian A. Howard

Beware the sound of a Babel fish,
For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:02:15 -0800 (PST)
From: jwbrewer@ucsd.edu (James W Brewer)
Subject: pocket empires

Chris;
I've ran a campaingn set in the Old Earth Union.  There is no single
dominating state like the Imperium.  Instead there are several successor
states to the Terran Mercantile League. The players were part of the
Exploration and Survey Service.  They crewed a long range scout ship that
did a run all they way out to the Easter Confederation. They had to deal
with the hostile actions of the Dingir Republic, which was a serious rival
to the Union.

                     James W. Brewer
                     Univ. of Calif. at San Diego

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 01:14:58 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: X-boats

Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:28:14 -0500, Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
>It really breaks down into two theories:
>A) all calculations and energy expenditures are done before jump. This
>presumes a jump tunnel is formed and all you do is fall through it.  This is
>pretty much how a jump projector would work.
>B) calculations and energy expenditure is done en route.  This opens some
>undesirable possibilities.  First, you can't use drop tanks (you could but
>you'd carry them through jumpspace). Second, jump times could be reduced by
>planning a route to a jump 6, then dropping into N-space midway (which is
>definitely a no no).

Note: Calculations and Energy expenditures don't necessarily have to
be done at the same time.  Nor do they have to be done once.  You can
clearly have some sort of calculation and energy expenditure and then
a series of calculations, of unknown complexity, along the way.   After
all, Jump drive is not a real theory and has unknown requirements.

The only real constraint is that if you could drive a ship automatically,
there would automatic bulk cargo ships and the requirements for
crew in the ship design would be wrong.

>An important note is that xboat message torps wouldn't affect the Traveller
>universe much at all (except having a cheaper/moderately faster
>communication).

Well, Hans can testify to how much I diagree with this one!

>Merchants
>need to be on board to watch cargo.

Why?

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #299
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